Kara Swisher: Kash Patel is a “National Security Risk” | Pivot

Scott Galloway 0:00 I think Patel is all of the incompetence with none of the stature or bravado. I just think he looks stupid.

Kara Swisher 0:09 [upbeat music] Let's get into today's news, Scott. FBI Director Kash

Kara Swisher 0:17 Patel just filed a two hundred and fifty million dollar defamation suit against The Atlantic over an article he called a quote "hit piece." It was not a hit piece. The Atlantic is calling the suit meritless. The story is based on interviews with more than two dozen current and former officials about Patel's time at the FBI. It alleges excessive drinking, frequent absences, and erratic freak outs, including over computer sign-in. There were reportedly multiple times over the past year where Patel's security detail had trouble waking him because he appeared to be intoxicated. One incident involved a request for breaching equipment, the kind a SWAT team use, uh, after Patel was unreachable behind locked doors. It... This is all true, everybody. It's repulsive when you read it. So what do you think's happening here? What's going on in the... as to the lawsuit?

Scott Galloway 1:03 Look, I, I think The Atlantic, my sense is this is thoughtful reporting, and his, uh... it seems like his drinking is sort of an open secret. It's not about alcoholism, in my view. It's incompetence.

Kara Swisher 1:16 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:17 I, I don't doubt that the alcohol hurts him, but generally speaking-

Kara Swisher 1:19 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 1:19 ... this is an incompetent person-

Kara Swisher 1:21 Right

Scott Galloway 1:21 ... who has lax judgment, doesn't show up for work on time, panics. Uh, uh, you know, he's so skittish, he thinks that, he thinks that he's not, um... that he's being fired. I don't mind you drinking during the weeknight if you work for me, but be at work the next morning. And if you're not drinking and you don't show up at work, it doesn't mat- it doesn't matter why you aren't showing up for work. This guy doesn't appear to be showing up.

Kara Swisher 1:44 Right. Right, right. They-

Scott Galloway 1:45 And is totally focused on-

Kara Swisher 1:46 This was alleging that drinking had a lot to do with it, as he drinks so much, he drinks to excess, that he doesn't-

Scott Galloway 1:51 Right.

Kara Swisher 1:51 He's also... It creates a national security risk, which is, I think, why all these people are leaking, right?

Scott Galloway 1:55 Fair point.

Kara Swisher 1:55 It's not because they l- dislike him, but he also is a huge national security risk. He's also abusing his privileges. Very Kristi Noem here, right? This is the version of Kristi Noem, and obviously, it's so- sort of who's gonna Kristi, who's gonna take him down, right?

Scott Galloway 2:12 Well, I like the idea of him and Hagsath are now referred to as the liquor cabinet. [chuckles]

Kara Swisher 2:17 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 2:17 I think that's a good one.

Kara Swisher 2:18 Yeah. Yeah. There was a good one. They said, uh, "Defense secretary, a FBI head, and a lead prosecutor go into a bar." Oh, wait, that happens every day. [chuckles] It was for Jeanne Biro, is the other one they were talking about. This group is really kind of... They're just, like, so not in control of themselves. Let me just say the la- the one thing that really was the most disturbing in that entire story was that he then will try to do something to please Trump, like try to prosecute people who prosecuted January 6th people or do election denial. He's gonna try to serve up, like, a little, a little mouse to Trump in order to save his job, and the only thing that Trump hates is drinking 'cause his brother was an alcoholic and died. Um, but it, it'll be interesting if Trump will not fire him because of this piece, if that makes sense.

Scott Galloway 3:08 Yeah, my first girlfriend was, um, Mexican and an alcoholic, and I-

Kara Swisher 3:13 Oh.

Scott Galloway 3:13 She used to order drinks called, um... And I asked her what her favorite book was, and she said Tequila Mockingbird.

Kara Swisher 3:19 Oh, my God. [chuckles] Okay. Well, anyway-

Scott Galloway 3:23 That's not very good, is it?

Kara Swisher 3:23 Do you think Trump will fire him?

Scott Galloway 3:24 That's not very good, is it?

Kara Swisher 3:26 I think so. I think Trump's gonna fire... He's gonna fire a couple of these people.

Scott Galloway 3:29 Three guys walk into a bar: an alcoholic, a priest, and a child molester.

Kara Swisher 3:32 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 3:32 And that's just the first guy.

Kara Swisher 3:35 [chuckles] All right. All right.

Scott Galloway 3:38 [chuckles]

Kara Swisher 3:38 I need your thoughts on whether Trump's-

Scott Galloway 3:39 [chuckles] It was good

Kara Swisher 3:39 ... gonna fire him.

Scott Galloway 3:40 All right.

Kara Swisher 3:40 All right. We're done with the drunk jokes.

Scott Galloway 3:42 You have-

Kara Swisher 3:42 Go ahead. Is he gonna fire him?

Scott Galloway 3:44 Okay, according, according to-

Kara Swisher 3:45 No.

Scott Galloway 3:46 Okay. Well, get this.

Kara Swisher 3:46 Oh, my God. You just... What did you just... You ChatGPT this shit.

Scott Galloway 3:48 I get this. This is really gonna-

Kara Swisher 3:50 Okay. Go ahead

Scott Galloway 3:51 ... everything. Um, I no longer think for myself. Um, so, uh, get this. According to, according to Calci, there's now a, something like a 70 or 80% chance that, um, Patel is fired by June 1st. And the other one-

Kara Swisher 4:08 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 4:08 ... that just blew my mind-

Kara Swisher 4:09 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 4:09 ... which I would take the over-under on or-

Kara Swisher 4:11 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 4:11 ... whatever you call it, that there's about a 70% chance-

Kara Swisher 4:14 Button it

Scott Galloway 4:14 ... that Trump is impeached by January 1st.

Kara Swisher 4:17 Oh, wow.

Scott Galloway 4:17 No, that Trump is impeached.

Kara Swisher 4:19 Oh, wow. Okay.

Scott Galloway 4:19 So these markets are saying, these markets are predicting that, um, the wheels are coming off, uh, the bus here, which, uh, you know, I find, uh, really unlikely here.

Kara Swisher 4:31 What does Scott Galloway think? Not Calci.

Scott Galloway 4:33 Oh, Patel's out. But I've thought that for a while. I think he reflects poorly. Uh, I, I think Hagsath, the president likes, 'cause when Hagz- Hagsath gets up on stage, he is so strident. He's very handsome. I think that, uh, Trump really values aesthetics. He's indignant. He's back in their face. I think Trump really likes that. And he's very resolute. Uh, uh, Trump doesn't like thoughtfulness. He likes someone who's resolute, and I think he kinda likes that sort of brazen, arrogant approach. I think Patel is all of the incompetence with none of the stature or bravado.

Kara Swisher 5:13 Oh, nice.

Scott Galloway 5:13 I just think he looks stupid.

Kara Swisher 5:15 That was smart.

Scott Galloway 5:15 And he's making the Trump administration look stupid. And also, it, it feels like, and, uh, I mean, you know this better than me, but it feels like everyone at the FBI is dying to get on the ph- phone with a reporter and shit post Patel. Uh, it just seems like the whole... I mean, [sighs] there's, there's been such an... I think the two biggest brand erosions over the last 12 months have been, number one, the brand US, number two, the brand AI. If you think about what's happened to that brand in the last 12 months, it's gone from 70 to 80% people being optimistic to, like, n- now it's one in 10 are optimistic. But theThe brand of the FBI, I would argue the G-men, you know, The X-Files, um, these were pe- these were people that put on suits but knew how to handle a firearm, were very measured, were all about serving in the agency of others, were optimized for security, not for performance or not for attention. This was a great job with a ton of prestige, and I think Kash Patel has literally trashed-

Kara Swisher 6:15 Yeah

Scott Galloway 6:15 ... this brand.

Kara Swisher 6:15 He's-- I agree.

Scott Galloway 6:16 He's turned it into a Joey bag of donuts-

Kara Swisher 6:18 Yep

Scott Galloway 6:19 ... uh, you know, two-for-one Coyote Ugly, MMA meets-

Kara Swisher 6:23 Whoa. Fuck.

Scott Galloway 6:23 You know, it's like a-

Kara Swisher 6:24 Yeah

Scott Galloway 6:24 ... it's like a bar fight minus the charm.

Kara Swisher 6:26 Yep. All right. All right. Well, he's out. I agree with you.

Scott Galloway 6:29 What are your thoughts?

Kara Swisher 6:30 I think he's gone. I think this was a beautiful piece of reporting, and I think they're gonna go through the cabinet with n-next is Lutnick and his corruption, right? That's gon- and his, like, thirsty, uh, attention-seeking. Anyway, we'll see. I think there's, there's... it's a moment now, especially after Swalwell. It's a moment for all of them.

Scott Galloway 6:47 How does the head of the FBI have their email hacked by an Iranian group?

Kara Swisher 6:52 Right. That's correct.

Scott Galloway 6:52 How does that happen?

Kara Swisher 6:54 He's drunk.

Scott Galloway 6:55 How does that happen?

Kara Swisher 6:55 'Cause he's drunk. 'Cause he's drinking too much. 'Cause he's an idiot. But idiot and drunk. He's stupid. You remember the line from Animal House? Do- how, how can you... Well, no, that was done by Dean Wormer, but going through life stupid a-and drunk is not, is no way to live or something like that. Anyway, that's what stupid-

Scott Galloway 7:11 Well, when someone asks me if-

Kara Swisher 7:12 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 7:13 ... uh, when someone asks me if I ever drink in the morning, I'm like, "No, 'cause I don't wake up till noon."

Kara Swisher 7:17 Oh my God. Okay, enough with the drinking jokes. Iran is

Kara Swisher 7:20 threatening to retaliate after the US military seized an Iranian-flagged, um, cargo ship trying to bypass the blockade in the Strait of Hormuz. Iran is calling it an act of piracy. Meanwhile, JD Vance, Steve Witkoff, and Jared Kushner are headed back to Pa-Pakistan for more peace talks, though it's unclear if Iran will even show up. Uh, first JD wasn't going, then he was going, and Trump was saying all manner of things. Trump, of course, is once again threatening to take out Iran's power plants and bridges, which I know it feels like Groundhog Day, but he's doing it again. The ceasefire is due to end this week. Um, I'll also note Energy Secretary Chris Wright thinks gas prices might stay above three dollars until twenty twenty-seven, though Trump is saying that's totally wrong. California was six. It was crazy. It was six or w- in the mid sixes, which is 'cause they have more taxes there, obviously. But, um, any thoughts what's happening here? 'Cause it seems like, again, still, it-- they still haven't gotten their act together, this gang. They can't shoot straight.

Scott Galloway 8:17 There's so many things that are bubbling up in terms of incompetence in institutions and a general approach to government that took immense resources that Americans have taken for granted, and one of those things is our incredible diplomatic corps. We gutted the d-diplomats. We gutted the anti-terrorist group. So w-when you have these summits or peace talks, ninety-five to ninety-eight percent of the work is done, done before the person lands on the ground, and that's the problem is zero percent has been done here. He might as well... He... This is the most... It is so easy to predict nothing is gonna come out of this. And I was, uh, you know... I, I've been saying that masculinity, a decent proxy for masculinity is are you optimizing for attention versus service? If so, that's the opposite of masculinity. That defines this ridiculous trip to Pakistan. There's been no diplomatic work done. He's gonna land. He's gonna make an indignant speech. He's gonna look for a TikTok moment that he at-attempts to make him look, make himself look presidential. He'll make further irresponsible, incendiary, unnecessary comments. He'll leave, and nothing will have happened. And, you know, the, the only other... What I've been thinking a lot about lately is kind of the winners and losers here. Initially, China's a loser because of the, the security threat around not having the free flow of energy. They are such a big winner long-term 'cause I was thinking about, how does the world structurally change on the demand side? You gotta think that in addition to the economic costs of the Straits of Hormuz being, um, sequestered or blocked, every nation in the world must be thinking, "You know, we don't wanna be dependent upon fucking straits that can be controlled by the IRGC or by Trump."

Kara Swisher 9:57 By the way, there's-

Scott Galloway 9:58 So we're gonna move to renewables

Kara Swisher 9:58 ... can I just interject? There's a couple-- There's a really good online, um, thing that was about, there's not just the Straits of Hormuz. There's an area near China that forty percent of the shipping goes through. There's a number of places around the world where this happens.

Scott Galloway 10:11 The Strait of Malacca or Singapore.

Kara Swisher 10:13 Right. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 10:13 The Suez Canal.

Kara Swisher 10:14 Right. Exactly.

Scott Galloway 10:15 And then freedom of navigation, a-a-again, see above, things we've taken for granted. Freedom of navigation was something that had been embraced by the entire world that said e-everyone's gonna pay more, everyone's gonna have insecure energy policy if we don't enforce freedom of navigation around the world. But you gotta think that every nation is thinking not only economically but from a defense standpoint, we need to have energy security. What is... All roads in energy security lead to one place, renewables. And let's talk about renewables. The advanced manufacturing and long-term thinking of China, get this, what is the global share that China controls of windmill production? Any guesses?

Kara Swisher 10:54 No, probably a lot. All of it.

Scott Galloway 10:57 A lot, correct. Sixty percent.

Kara Swisher 10:59 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 10:59 The percentage of EVs sold glo-globally?

Kara Swisher 11:02 China.

Scott Galloway 11:03 Seventy percent.

Kara Swisher 11:04 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 11:05 China. The percentage [chuckles] of, uh-

Kara Swisher 11:08 Drones

Scott Galloway 11:08 ... solar panels produced-

Kara Swisher 11:09 Drones

Scott Galloway 11:09 ... in the world?

Kara Swisher 11:10 All of them. Drones. Sorry.

Scott Galloway 11:11 Eighty percent-

Kara Swisher 11:12 Yeah

Scott Galloway 11:12 ... in China. So while we're sending diplomatic missions and Canada's announcing they're divorcing from us 'cause we're an absentee, irresponsible player in the marriageChina is using advanced manufacturing to say, "Okay, long term, everyone's gonna start investing in renewables, and we're gonna be the place they come to buy it all." And they're not only offering the manufacturing and the products, they're offering safe distribution, they're offering financing for these things, and they're saying, "You can count on us." So if you don't wanna be subject to the IRGC or President Trump's whims that day, enter into an economic relationship with China.

Kara Swisher 11:48 Yeah, I agree. I agree. Anyway, it's a real-- It's, it's just this is, this is not good from a political point of view, from a world point of view, and a lot of-- Like, there's a lot of very high-level people predicting a real collapse of lots of co- of, of countries in terms of because of the slowdowns and the problems, that they're just on the edge. I mean, uh, the UAE was asking for some money. This is-- They have to solve this yesterday. They shouldn't have done it in the first place, but now they have to solve it yesterday 'cause there's a lot of other coun- All these countries are interconnected. Whether you like it or not, MAGA folks, this is how it works, and you're gonna, you're gonna see collapses all around. If the UAE is asking for... What did, what did they want? They need money, Israeli, 'cause of the, the situation. All these luxury brands throughout the Mid East, and that's just small, small ball. It's like all these countries are dependent on this. And so he is reordering the world for sure, but not in a way that favors the United States. Uh, and of course, they're sending this team of Witkoff. Steve, Steve Witkoff. Honestly, this is not our best and brightest with Jared Kushner, Steve Witkoff, and J.D. Vance.

Scott Galloway 12:54 If you wanna understand what's gonna happen in a negotiation with Witkoff, just ask how is he gonna get his kids rich?

Kara Swisher 12:58 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 12:58 Like, what-- That's essentially-

Kara Swisher 13:00 Yep

Scott Galloway 13:00 ... what is driving-

Kara Swisher 13:01 Such a moron

Scott Galloway 13:01 ... um, these negotiations. But you brought up something, you brought up something really important, and that it's the UAE and something that really shocked me. I was looking at analysis of projectiles that have come out of Iran. Do you realize that Iran has shot more projectiles at the UAE than Israel? And, you know, the UAE really is a model of what it means to not be the IRGC. It's-- They, they have built an unbelievable modern economy. They respect alliances. They, in many ways, are trying to be more progressive around, around civil rights. They have made real progress around, um, uh, around women's rights. They are everything that the IRGC is not, and it's interesting that of all the nations, um, uh, the IRGC has decided to go after the UAE, uh, most aggressively. That really surprised me. More projectiles into the UAE than Israel.

Kara Swisher 13:54 But they're asking... They said they're gonna be forced to use Chinese money or other currencies if they don't, they don't get a financial lifeline. This is just... And that's just one country. There's so many that are just gonna be affected. And then, let me just say, lots and lots of people live day to day in this country and cannot afford these prices, these gas prices. And so with Chris Wright just haphazardly saying, "It'll stay above three," and it's even above three? It's above four in DC. It's above... Like, give me a fucking break. It was six in, in... This is just... These cavalier fuckers. And then that, that smiling idiot, Kevin Hassett, gets on and acts like it's no big deal. There's something really broken about these people that is just doesn't understand the implications of anything they do. Anyway, uh, we have to go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Joe Rogan's influence on executive orders. [whooshing] [gentle music] Support for this show comes from Vanta. If you're a business owner, you might have noticed that risk and regulation are on the rise. Customers now want proof of security before they commit, and earning that trust is critical to closing deals. But the process can be expensive, complex, and time-intensive. Vanta says that's the challenge they're here to solve. Vanta automates your compliance process to bring compliance risk and customer trust together in one AI-powered platform. So whether you're prepping for a SOC 2 or running an enterprise GRC program, Vanta keeps you secure and keeps your deals moving. Vanta automates the process of achieving and maintaining compliance with over 35 security and privacy frameworks. This helps companies get compliant fast and remain compliant, opening doors to major growth opportunities and freeing up valuable time. Vanta says companies like Ramp and Writer spend 82% less time on audits with Vanta. That's not just faster compliance, it's more time to scale. So if you're tired of sifting through old audits and spreadsheets, you can get a system that's always working in the background, keeping you compliant, reducing risk, and helping your business scale fast and with confidence. You can get started at vanta.com/pivot. That's V-A-N-T-A.com/pivot, vanta.com/pivot. [whooshing] Support for this show comes from Framer. Running a business is pretty tough, especially if you're a perfectionist and any and every little mistake on your website just drives you insane. Framer is your shortcut to fixing those problems. Framer is an enterprise-grade, no-code website builder used by teams like companies like Perplexity and Miro to move faster. With real-time collaboration and robust CMS, with everything you need for great SEO, not to mention advanced analytics that include integrated A/B testing, your designers and marketers are empowered to build and maximize your dot com from day one. So whether you wanna launch a new site, test a few landing pages, or migrate your full dot com, Framer has programs for startups, scale-ups, and large enterprises to make going from an idea to live site as easy and fast as possible. Learn how you can get more out of your dot com from a Framer specialist or get started building for free today at framer.com/pivot for 30% off a Framer Pro annual plan. That's framer.com/pivot for 30% off, framer.com/pivot. Rules and restrictions apply. [whooshing] Scott,

Kara Swisher 17:00 we're back with more news. Trump signed an executive order fast-tracking FDA review of psychedelic drugs like psilocybin and I think it's ibogaine for mental health treatment, all thanks to a text from Joe Rogan. Rogan texted Trump about ibogaine research in reducing opioid addiction, and the president immediately replied, "Sounds great. Do you want FDA approval? Let's do it." The order directs the FDA to expedite review of the breakthrough therapy and encourage data sharing between the Health and Veterans Affairs Department. Um, you know-Honestly, this... Look, Rogan's been turning on Trump, and this was a gimme to Joe Rogan. But I, I, as you know, I talk about psych- use of psychedelics in this series. It's very promising, but certainly shouldn't be expedited 'cause some, some, uh, podcaster who has very not the best information, 'cause they need to do the safety checks if these things are gonna be good for people. Um, but if... [chuckles] I mean, what, what would you text Trump for? What would you like if you could talk? But this is how it's done in this country. He texts him. He wants him back. It's the most thirsty and thirsty way to get Rogan's approval, and Rogan is dumb enough to take it and then shift on these things that he cared about, allegedly war and, um, the Epstein things, so the whole thing is just demented. I thought this was the most demented thing, given how important this psychedelic r- research should be taken throughout this country. Your thoughts?

Scott Galloway 18:27 Well, Ibogaine i- is, the... There's real potential here.

Kara Swisher 18:30 Absolutely.

Scott Galloway 18:31 A Stanford study found a single Ibogaine dose reduced veterans' disability ratings from 30.2 to 5.1, with effects sustained at least a month out. Almost nine in 10 participants experienced, um, a reduction in PTSD symptoms, nine in 10, uh, decrease in depression, eight in 10, uh, reduce in anxiety, so this has real potential. This is, this is a great move, but here's the problem. This isn't how you do things.

Kara Swisher 18:56 They've been running, they've been running this for a year. They could've done this a year ago, but go ahead. Go ahead.

Scott Galloway 19:02 Well, o- okay. So I'm a big believer in prison reform. I think they're... we're the most incarcerated nation in the world, and I think that a hugely accretive move would be, uh, early prison release and a review of, of people who are currently incarcerated. And when the Trump administration decides that it would be great to have the Karda- Kardashian on boards, and she, she takes this on as an issue, they then get a pardon.

Kara Swisher 19:27 One person.

Scott Galloway 19:27 Like, he does these things, but he does them for political reasons, and they're not systemic in nature. And when it comes to the... When it comes to taking something from a Class 2 or a Class 1 drug, I want someone who has domain expertise.

Kara Swisher 19:38 That's correct.

Scott Galloway 19:39 I want double-blind tests. I think the... Again, another thing [chuckles] we have taken for granted here is the good people at the CDC, our FDA, uh, double-blind studies, doctors with actual credentials. I mean, they do, they do a really good job. It's been a huge, uh, benefit to us economically. The drugs you take are... You know, they, they do mistakes, but you can feel fairly certain that if you take something that's FDA-approved, it's approved for-

Kara Swisher 20:05 It's also too slow

Scott Galloway 20:06 ... a good reason, so-

Kara Swisher 20:07 Absolutely too slow-

Scott Galloway 20:08 I'm-

Kara Swisher 20:08 ... on these therapies, but they're still early. And, uh, the fact that this very not smart podcaster, who's very lovely in some ways and nutty in some ways and, but doesn't operate in a factual environment all the time, is getting to get this because he's, was mean to Trump and was turning on him, and then for the next couple of months, he'll be nice to Trump, right? The whole thing is just grotesque in the-

Scott Galloway 20:33 And this is not good health policy

Kara Swisher 20:34 ... this is not how we need to... This is not health policy. That's correct. It's not legal policy. It's, uh, it- it's, it's purely political. And for Rogan to get used like this on an important issue, maybe if it's important to him, he should demand that Trump, not, not just 'cause he can go to the Oval Office and hug Trump. But it's just, just... Oh, God. It could hurt veterans if it's not done correctly. The whole... Ay yai yai. Just... And it's, by the way, it's also gonna take forever.

Scott Galloway 21:03 So let's do this.

Kara Swisher 21:03 It's, like, also gonna take forever anyway.

Scott Galloway 21:05 Let's, let's-

Kara Swisher 21:05 Go ahead

Scott Galloway 21:05 ... let's play the game.

Kara Swisher 21:06 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 21:07 Let's be increasingly mean and grow our pa- platform 10X.

Kara Swisher 21:10 Mm.

Scott Galloway 21:10 And then what is the one thing you want from Trump? What is the one policy you would want from Trump?

Kara Swisher 21:14 $25 minimum wage.

Scott Galloway 21:17 Oh, I love that.

Kara Swisher 21:18 Universal healthcare.

Scott Galloway 21:19 I love that.

Kara Swisher 21:21 Childcare.

Scott Galloway 21:21 That's good too.

Kara Swisher 21:21 Universal childcare. All those things. Any of those.

Scott Galloway 21:24 Check, check, check.

Kara Swisher 21:26 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 21:26 Love it.

Kara Swisher 21:26 What about you?

Scott Galloway 21:27 Love it.

Kara Swisher 21:29 Besides, [laughs] besides, like, a missile? [laughs]

Scott Galloway 21:31 [laughs] Um, uh, I would want mandatory national service.

Kara Swisher 21:39 Oh, I like that.

Scott Galloway 21:40 Um, distribution of GLP-1 to any household with less than $50,000-

Kara Swisher 21:47 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 21:48 ... in household income.

Kara Swisher 21:49 With good medical stuff-

Scott Galloway 21:50 And-

Kara Swisher 21:50 ... attached to it, nutritional-

Scott Galloway 21:52 That's right

Kara Swisher 21:52 ... protection.

Scott Galloway 21:53 That's right. And, uh, incremental, like you said, single-payer, um, health coverage. And, oh, gosh, I could, I could-

Kara Swisher 22:02 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 22:02 ... I mean, I could go on. And lower the estate tax exemption to one million. There's gonna be $72 trillion in wealth passed on. We're not a dynastic population. We're a meritocratic population, and we need to tax-

Kara Swisher 22:13 Mm

Scott Galloway 22:14 ... inherited wealth.

Kara Swisher 22:15 Mm.

Scott Galloway 22:15 Anyways, I got about another 15, but-

Kara Swisher 22:17 Okay

Scott Galloway 22:17 ... anyways.

Kara Swisher 22:18 Well, there we go.

Scott Galloway 22:18 This is amazing.

Kara Swisher 22:19 We're not, we don't have his... No, actually-

Scott Galloway 22:20 There we go

Kara Swisher 22:20 ... I could probably get Trump's cell phone number if you want.

Scott Galloway 22:21 Let's be on it. Let's be a pain in his side.

Kara Swisher 22:23 No, I'm serious.

Scott Galloway 22:24 Let's get on it.

Kara Swisher 22:24 Why don't we do an experiment? Say, "This is Scott Galloway. I would like you to do an executive order on young men, or whatever the fuck you want." I'm gonna get his cell phone. You're gonna text him, okay? You're doing it.

Scott Galloway 22:34 I think it's get it... I think it's getting the wiring information of someone in his family-

Kara Swisher 22:38 [laughs]

Scott Galloway 22:38 ... and sending a few million dollars. I'm serious.

Kara Swisher 22:41 No.

Scott Galloway 22:41 I think there's a direct pipeline.

Kara Swisher 22:42 No, I... That too.

Scott Galloway 22:42 I've heard-

Kara Swisher 22:43 Yeah

Scott Galloway 22:44 ... I've heard from credible, credible resources around, around specific things around pardons and trying to get funding for certain things, that there's an entire infrastructure, consultants who launder the money, get it to the Trump administration, and you get shit passed. This is... And to be clear-

Kara Swisher 23:01 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 23:01 ... what they would say is this has always been going on. We're just more, we're less-

Kara Swisher 23:05 Ugh, no

Scott Galloway 23:05 ... we're more transparent about it.

Kara Swisher 23:06 No. Not like this. I'm gonna get his number. You're gonna text him, okay? That's what we're doing this week. Okay. Um, the-

Scott Galloway 23:12 Well, I was invited to the UFC fight at the White House, I told you.

Kara Swisher 23:14 You need to go. You need to go. You need to say yes.

Scott Galloway 23:17 I can't go. I just can't do that.

Kara Swisher 23:17 You need to sidle up to him and-

Scott Galloway 23:19 I don't like watching-

Kara Swisher 23:19 ... like, pet him.

Scott Galloway 23:21 I don't like watching young men beat each other up. It, it kind of disturbs me.

Kara Swisher 23:23 Don't look at that part. Just go pet Trump. That's what you need to do, and get universal healthcare for everybody.

Scott Galloway 23:28 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 23:28 You need to do it. You need to go in there.

Scott Galloway 23:30 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 23:30 I- they're not inviting me, even though... Did you hear about this study, this, this thing?The influencers?

Scott Galloway 23:38 Say more.

Kara Swisher 23:38 Oh, oh, it's really interesting. So there's a poll that Ipsos did, um, about influencers essentially, and, um, I am the most purple... I, I-- First of all, I'm in the top influencers, which is weird. I'm up there with Candace Owen and Tucker Carlson and all manner of people, but I'm the most purple.

Scott Galloway 23:56 You're the most centrist?

Kara Swisher 23:58 Yes. No, well, I don't think the word is ce-- I think it's independent. Like, I, I don't know, 'cause they don't all agree, right? But in terms of impact, shock... I'm shocked that I was even in these lists, but independents love Kara Swisher. [chuckles]

Scott Galloway 24:11 Huh.

Kara Swisher 24:11 It's weird. It's so weird. But it's good. Good. That's why-

Scott Galloway 24:14 That's very exciting

Kara Swisher 24:15 ... which means the, I should be at the OC5 'cause I'd actually enjoy it, but you need to go. And-

Scott Galloway 24:19 You're an influencer. We gotta take you to Coachella and just have you take pictures-

Kara Swisher 24:22 I know

Scott Galloway 24:22 ... not enjoy the music.

Kara Swisher 24:23 I'm surprised you didn't go to Coachella, but listen, this is what you have to do. You have to take one for the team, or you're gonna... You also have to text Trump 'cause he's not taking my texts even though I am the person who's the most-

Scott Galloway 24:33 Okay

Kara Swisher 24:34 ... who represents the independents apparently, which is ridiculous-

Scott Galloway 24:37 Who's the most purple-

Kara Swisher 24:37 ... 'cause I'm really liberal

Scott Galloway 24:38 ... key influence?

Kara Swisher 24:39 Yeah, but I'm really liberal,

Kara Swisher 24:40 which is kind of funny. Um, all right. The NSA is using Anthropic's, uh, Mythos even after the Department of Defense called the company a supply chain risk. Um, Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei met with the White House officials on Friday to work towards a compromise to bring the company's technology back to government use. Both sides described the meeting as productive. However, when President Trump was asked about Amodei's visit, he said he had no idea about the meeting. He was meeting with Susie Wiles. If a compromise is reached, it would likely exclude the Pentagon because Pete... uh, Hegseth is a moron, and so is Emil Michael, who works for him. Um, so it's t- again, it's like everyone, uh, everyone I have talked to in the other departments think the Hegseth thing is insane, and that they wanna use it 'cause it's a better model. So the NSA wants to use it, um, and everything else, and it's just, it's kind of ridiculous that Amodei has to go hat in hand to deal with these children. And by the way, over at OpenAI, more kind of problems. The company lost three executives on Friday, the leader of the defunct Sora, the VP of OpenAI for Science, who we used to work for Twitter, Kevin Weill, and the company's CTO for, uh, b-B2B applications. Um, so they're losing... There's a lot of... It's more, it's more, um, dramatic than Google back in the day or Twitter. It just... It's really quite a dramatic little company. Um, so any thoughts on Anthropic or OpenAI again?

Scott Galloway 26:04 Well, [sighs] you know, history or the world hates a vacuum, and one of the biggest vacuums or voids right now that's creating chaos is the vacuum around regulation and guardrails around AI. And when Dario Amodei, who is supposed to be head of a private company charged with just using every tool in his toolkit possible to create leverage and margin for shareholders, gets so worried about something that he pulls it back, and I'm not, you know... And so he's only gonna give it to JPMorgan and Apple, you know, the good guys. [chuckles] Um, and y-you'd like to think he's sincere about it, and he's generally concerned, but he shouldn't be making those calls. If we're trusting or hoping that the US and existential threats are gonna be dependent upon the kindness and wisdom of CEOs, we are fucked because these people have so many incentives-

Kara Swisher 26:52 I agree. It's a low bar

Scott Galloway 26:52 ... and pressure to just deliver and ensure their value.

Kara Swisher 26:54 I was with some people. They-- I was with some people, and they're like, "Amodei's good." I'm like, "It's a low fucking bar," and I don't, still don't want him to decide. And still, you know, even at this point anyway.

Scott Galloway 27:04 But, m- but in, uh, one of millions of text chains I got copied on in between you and Rahm-

Kara Swisher 27:09 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 27:09 ... I was gonna suggest to Rahm and any other Democratic presidential candidate, I was actually gonna, uh... For some reason, I think Jon Ossoff is, and you wrote about this, is giving off real presidential energy right now. But I think the opportunity among a Democratic can-candidate right now, quite frankly, is to have a very thoughtful, get some academics together, and have a very thoughtful ten-page or less summarized in a one or two page cover, cover, um, summary is, uh, regulation for AI. Do you realize no one's even proposing what it would mean? What does it look like? How do you regulate it? What i- is it about security? Is it about privacy? Is it about how do you thread the needle between regulation and also main-- letting our thoroughbreds run such that China does not get out ahead of us, which is a legitimate concern. Who running for president, i.e. you know, everyone, has put out anything thoughtful that has said... I mean, Senator Warner has put out something with Senator Hawley about retraining and trying to support job destruction, but no one has really put out a thoughtful, you know, three, five, twelve-point plan on this is what we should implement immediately and i- by executive order that lets the economic growth run mostly. It'll cost some economic growth, but gives people some level of certainty that the government has some feel around the risks here and outlines them, but there's nothing right now. It's just the Wild West, and that vacuum is being filled by a bunch of arguments, virtue signaling, false signals, comms releases, press releases. So the vacuum is being filled by chaos around something that people aren't sure is it a big threat? Is it, is it not?

Kara Swisher 28:50 I, I agree.

Scott Galloway 28:50 And it really hurts the industry 'cause see above, it's gone from nine in ten people being optimistic about this to one in ten.

Kara Swisher 28:57 Yeah, they've really fucked it up, and it's not the fault of, like, me complaining. That, I, I got that from one of them. It's like, "It's 'cause you're so negative." I'm like, "Get the fuck out of here." Like, it's not our fault. You know, I said that. That's what I actually said. Because I was-

Scott Galloway 29:09 I'm an influencer. [laughs]

Kara Swisher 29:11 I'm a big in... The indies agree with... You're right. It's worked, by the way.

Scott Galloway 29:15 I'm an influencer.

Kara Swisher 29:16 But, um, it was so weird. It was gone.

Scott Galloway 29:18 I'm an influencer.

Kara Swisher 29:18 I couldn't believe it. Anyway, um, it's just they have done it to themselves. They've done it to themselves because they're so... And you know what drove me crazy? Then you get... N- these, this isn't an, isn't an AI company, but it's all stuck in there, Palantir posting its manifesto on X over the weekend, which one outlet, uh, it was points from Alex Karp's, the CEO's book, The Technological Republic. One outlet likened it to the ramblings of a comic book villain, and the points include post-war neutering of Germany and Japan m-must be undone. I mean, it's already been undone, you dumbass. We should applaud those who attempt to build where the market failed to act, and we must resist shallow temptation of vacant and hollow pluralism. The whole thing is just w- so... I need them to shut up. I need all the AI people to shut up, even the good ones, and just, like, like, put in good things in place because they literally have-- they keep shooting themselves in the foot about a technology that'sPossibly dangerous, possibly amazing, and everybody hates it, right? Everyone who's normal hates it, not them, and then they blame us for that.

Scott Galloway 30:25 Yeah, I don't get it, and I, I consider myself an influencer, but I suffer from paranoia. I believe that nobody is following me.

Kara Swisher 30:31 [laughs] Can I ask you, if you went in there to them, they said, "Scott Galloway, we need, we need you to fix this," what would be your first three moves? Mr. Brand, we're having you in. We're paying you a ba-dillion dollars 'cause they haven't been-

Scott Galloway 30:44 For AI?

Kara Swisher 30:45 Yeah. The AI companies are like, "Look-

Scott Galloway 30:47 The AI?

Kara Swisher 30:48 ... people fucking hate us."

Scott Galloway 30:49 Yeah. I'd wanna, I'd wanna-

Kara Swisher 30:50 Three things

Scott Galloway 30:51 ... I'd wanna assemble a list of technologists, ethicists, and economic advisors, and I'd want-- I would demand a 30-day, uh, period where no model, no updated model is ever released without thorough review that, that A/B tests the shit out of the thing in terms of existential risks, and it has s- if the F- if it takes fucking a decade to get a drug through the FDA-

Kara Swisher 31:13 Right, exactly

Scott Galloway 31:14 ... why wouldn't we mandate that the government gets to play with any new model for 30 days?

Kara Swisher 31:18 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 31:19 And then says, "We have found that this could absolutely hack the NSA-

Kara Swisher 31:23 Yeah, the Treasury

Scott Galloway 31:23 ... or even our nuclear launch codes.

Kara Swisher 31:25 NSA. Right. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 31:26 So you need to tweak the following things. We're gonna assemble a blue ribbon panel. Anyone on this panel will be paid a lot of money, have tremendous prestige, and by the way, for three years, there's a sunshine period, and you cannot go on the board of any of these companies 'cause we don't want you trading off speaking engagements and, and stock options for security. But at a minimum, we should have a 30-day screening blue, you know, blue ribbon panel that includes Europeans, that includes G6 nations, that includes stock market analysts and say, "Okay, there has to be a balance between safety and economic growth." Instead, it's just like, put it out there and see what happens.

Kara Swisher 32:03 I know. Uh, what, what is-

Scott Galloway 32:04 That's my first thing, Kara

Kara Swisher 32:04 ... from a marketing, if you were doing an ad, what would it be? We know we suck, or what? What, what's the message?

Scott Galloway 32:11 For, for-

Kara Swisher 32:12 For the O- AI companies.

Scott Galloway 32:16 Oh, but here's the bottom line, Kara, is the markets love a winner. The, the worst thing that's happening to Sam Altman right now is he's proving himself to be a, uh, not a great CEO, and he's let Anthropic literally leapfrog him. The markets are amoral. Uh, open, uh... Anthropic's gonna get out at a trillion dollar plus valuation because it is executing like no one's business, and CoWork is on fire. It, it- they are doing such a great job. I think Dario is managing his brand fairly well. I think if I were Dario, and I think he's gonna do this given that he-- God, I can't imagine has much on his own plate. I would, I would almost, I don't wanna say circumvent the government, but I would be putting together an industry consortium across all of them and saying, "These are our recommendations."

Kara Swisher 32:59 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 33:00 And-

Kara Swisher 33:00 But even critics of them

Scott Galloway 33:01 ... and trying to be as thoughtful.

Kara Swisher 33:03 Even critics of them. Yeah. I will give one-

Scott Galloway 33:04 I would also offer a bunch of LLMs for free to researchers and academics-

Kara Swisher 33:07 Yeah

Scott Galloway 33:08 ... and say, "Have at it. We think this-

Kara Swisher 33:09 Yeah

Scott Galloway 33:09 ... could cure cancer. Have at it."

Kara Swisher 33:11 Yeah. I have to say, I, I do like... I, I think he's messaging well, but he never comes up with solutions. Like, he just tells us it's all falling apart. So, you know, David Sachs went after him this week for being too negative, and I don't think he is. I just think he, uh, went-- while he's offering these scary scenarios, he needs to say, "Okay, here's what we can do." Like, he doesn't do that enough. That's my, that's my, that's what I would say about him.

Scott Galloway 33:34 But why wouldn't they, why wouldn't they coordinate? I mean, they have a lot of money. Why wouldn't they take, I don't know-

Kara Swisher 33:39 Yeah

Scott Galloway 33:39 ... a billion dollars and start a center at Berkeley and said, "This center is gonna be focused on, on, um, incurable diseases, and we're gonna, we're gonna give them all the models for free. We're gonna g- we're gonna give them compute, inference." And a lot of people would say, "No, it's the profit motive." But just from a, I don't wanna sound a perception standpoint, but why wouldn't you say, "We're, we're, we're starting a center for diplomatic prevention of conflict using AI"? They, they could just do so many interesting things-

Kara Swisher 34:09 Yeah. They're doing little bits of that

Scott Galloway 34:10 ... which they're concerned about the-

Kara Swisher 34:11 But, yeah. Their, their brand is really bad, and listen, Dario's gonna be dragged down with the rest of them if they don't do something about it.

Scott Galloway 34:17 Every journey is the same from Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader. We think they're the ones that are gonna save us, that they should be president, and then we find out, like the rest of them, their job is to do s- do and say whatever will get their share price up.

Kara Swisher 34:29 State of clay.

Scott Galloway 34:30 And-

Kara Swisher 34:30 State of clay

Scott Galloway 34:31 ... there you go. It's a, it's the villain's journey. They always end up a Bond villain. And I like Dario. I don't know him personally, but I think he's made a series of really good moves. He's clearly an outstanding CEO, but here's an easy prediction. In twenty-four months, we'll hate him too-

Kara Swisher 34:47 True

Scott Galloway 34:47 ... because we, we will fall into the trap of believing-

Kara Swisher 34:50 'Cause they blew up the world

Scott Galloway 34:50 ... that these people are responsible for our well-being.

Kara Swisher 34:53 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 34:53 They're not. They're responsible for shareholder value, and that comes at a cost, and when no one's home, see above that void.

Kara Swisher 34:59 Yeah, but brand decline is so dramatic.

Scott Galloway 35:00 Who, who is proposing anything resembling AI regulation right now?

Kara Swisher 35:03 Well, they say it, and then they... It's a one-off kinda thing. Anyway, they do say it. They do say it.

Scott Galloway 35:08 What would you do? What would you wanna see?

Kara Swisher 35:10 I, I would-

Scott Galloway 35:10 What would you wanna see happen?

Kara Swisher 35:11 I would put together... I think that's-- I actually hadn't thought about it, but I would... N-not ads saying how good we are. I would have an o- well, I, you know, I had a back and forth with Dario's people. I'm gonna see him this week. Um, but one of the, one of the things I said is, "You're doing all these soft interviews. Do some fucking hard ones." Like, and I was of course pitching for me, but, you know, like, get out there and do some, like, do a lot, and, uh, it doesn't have to just be him. It has to be a lot of people. Like, instead we're doing, uh, uh, you know, Sam Altman's sort of had a series of bad interviews, but it's gotta be a broader discussion among a lot more people, right? And demand that your critics are right in front of you, and don't wilt when a critic says something, um, instead of... Like, they just, they just, they just don't want bad news, and it doesn't matter. People hate them. They really hate them. And so look at the polls, look at young people. I mean, it's just, uh, the, the brand destruction is gonna take them all down, and, and there's so many promising things with AI. I mean, look what happened to Reese Witherspoon this week. I got slammed 'cause I said, "What was she saying that was..." 'Cause they thought she was being paid by ChatGPT or Charles Porch or whatever it happened to be, but did you see all that? Like, 'cause she was saying women need to use-

Scott Galloway 36:21 I didn't understand why she got so much hate for that.

Kara Swisher 36:24 'Cause they thought it was an ad. I think that they... and maybe it was. I don't really care. What she was saying was accurate. It doesn't... I mean, they said she's bought and paid for, and she must be getting money 'cause she has Blackstone money through the whatever.Honestly, it was so innocuous and pe- because she does books, and so all the people-- It just was, uh, it was innocuous what she said. [laughs] Seriously innocuous, and I got slammed for de- I wasn't really even defending her. I'm like, "What is she saying that's so weird?" Even, a-again, even if she was paid, I don't think it was... the message was a, the, a bad one. But I guess... And then everyone's like, "Well, I'm not gonna use AI, so there." And I'm like, "Well, don't then. What do you want?" But if you, if you care about where it's going, you need it. It's like in the early internet, there were all these people who said, "I'm not using the web." I'm like, "Knock yourself out, but it's, it's happening, my friends. Don't turn on that flash, that, that electric light." I, I don't care. It's just... Anyway, it's a ba- there's a lot of rage. There's a, the, the rage at her was ins-insane, I thought. Anyway, um, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, uh, why Netflix stock plummeted after its latest earnings. I'm eager to hear what you have to say, Scott. [gentle music] Support for the show comes from DeleteMe. DeleteMe makes it easy, quick, and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. You don't have to be a public figure to be at risk of having your personal information stolen by bad actors. The terrifying reality is that we're all susceptible, and the impact of identity theft can be devastating. DeleteMe can help you protect your personal privacy or the privacy of your business from doxing attacks before sensitive information can be exploited. I have used DeleteMe for a while. I think i-it's really important to be aware of what's out there about you. It's really surprising, even someone like me who spends a lot of time protecting their privacy, how much information is out there, how much of it is bad, and how much is being compiled together. You really have to fight hard to keep your privacy, and DeleteMe is an excellent tool. Last year, The New York Times Wirecutter named DeleteMe their top pick for data removal services. Not a surprise. So what are you waiting for? Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for DeleteMe now at a special discount for our listeners. Get twenty percent off your DeleteMe plan when you go to join deleteme.com/pivot and use the promo code PIVOT at checkout. The only way to get twenty percent off is to go to join deleteme.com/pivot and enter the code PIVOT at checkout. That's joindeleteme.com/pivot, code PIVOT. [gentle music] Support for this show comes from ShipStation. When your company is growing fast, order fulfillment can make or break your success. ShipStation's intelligence-driven platform brings order management, rate shopping, inventory and returns, warehouse systems, and comprehensive analytics all in one place, and it can save customers fifteen hours per week on fulfillment. With ShipStation, everything you need to manage getting your product to customers is in one place. You can connect to over two hundred sales channels, and instead of five to seven disconnected tools, you've got one, and you can also set up time-saving automations. ShipStation picks the best carrier, finds you the best rate, prints labels in bulk, and sends tracking updates. Done. Their data shows that sharing tracking details can cut customer service inquiries by twelve percent. Returns management can give you data on what's coming back and why, and analytics can show you where you're saving and where to optimize. Try ShipStation free for sixty days with full access to all features, no credit card needed. Go to shipstation.com and use the code PIVOT for sixty days for free. Sixty days gives you plenty of time to see exactly how much time and money you're saving on every shipment. That's shipstation.com, code PIVOT. Shipstation.com, code PIVOT.

Kara Swisher 39:58 Scott, we're back with more news. Netflix is out with its first earnings report since walking away from the Warner Brothers deal back in February. The company beat expectations on revenue and earnings, driven by membership growth, ad sales, and higher subscription prices, plus that two point eight billion dollar breakup fee. Thanks, uh, Ellison. Thanks, Paramount. But the Q2 forecast was below analyst expectations. It sent shares down ten percent. The earnings also came with a few announcements, a deeper push into AI, and the launch of a TikTok-like vertical video feed within the app. They're trying to do a lot more. AI makes total sense in that regard. And notably, Netflix co-founder and chairman of the board, Reed Hastings, is leaving the company when his term expires in June. He wants to do a lot of other things. Um, talk first about the earnings. We're gonna get into the Netflix's podcast plans in a, in just a second. Um, I can go over what they're doing, but why don't you talk about the earnings themself? And by the way, can I just take a moment? I met Reed Hastings right at the beginning of this company, and I have known him for a long time. I gotta say, an amazing entrepreneur. What he did and shifted deserves enormous credit, and he was the, the real engine. And Ted is doing a great job, so is Bela Bajaria, so are the new people there. But Reed Hastings is one-- is a generational, uh, entrepreneur, and congratulations on your tenure.

Scott Galloway 41:16 Yeah, agreed. Uh, look, their earnings were, uh, fantastic. Their revenue was up sixteen percent year over year, beating expectations. Their earnings, uh, was nearly double what analysts expected. There was a bit of a sugar high though because of the three billion dollar termination fee from the collapsed Warner Brothers deal. What shocked me was the ad tier now drives over sixty percent of new signups-

Kara Swisher 41:40 Yeah

Scott Galloway 41:41 ... in ad-supported markets.

Kara Swisher 41:42 Interesting.

Scott Galloway 41:43 Um, and, uh, they're, they're on track to hit three billion dollars in ad revenue this year, so now they're becoming a big media player-

Kara Swisher 41:49 They are

Scott Galloway 41:49 ... ad-supported media player with a business that barely even existed two years ago. And the full year guidance held at about fifty-one to fifty-two billion, but, uh, Q2 guidance of thirteen percent growth came in below what the bulls wanted to see. So I think that... I guess I, I looked at these earnings. I mean, this is the weird and the beautiful thing about the market. If I'd seen these earnings before the market's reaction, I would have guessed the market would be flat to up. So I don't know if they're taking Reed's departure as a signal this is no longer a growth company or that the, just some air was coming out of the stock. Um, I don't get it. I don't, uh, you know, I... There was some speculation that Reed was leaving because of the botched Warner Brothers deal. I think that's bullshit. I think, like you said, he just wants to do different things.

Kara Swisher 42:33 He has a lot of stuff he's working on.

Scott Galloway 42:34 The stock was up eighteen percent year to date h-heading into the print. Now it's just up seven percent, but that's not bad. TheI did meet with Ted Sarandos two years ago, and I told him I thought they should launch a TikTok competitor because the long tail of Netflix content doesn't get viewed very much.

Kara Swisher 42:52 Yeah, just like you were talking.

Scott Galloway 42:52 And I thought have an open source opportunity for artists and creators to slice it up, and it would be incredible marketing, and I think they could have a viable competitor to TikTok.

Kara Swisher 43:01 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 43:02 And at that point, he said, "Well, TikTok is a marketing-"

Kara Swisher 43:02 I would trust them with that. I would trust them, by the way.

Scott Galloway 43:05 It looks like they're getting into the business. Um, they're launching a TikTok style vertical video feed this month, and YouTube has thirteen percent of all US TV viewing versus Netflix at nine percent, but YouTube Shorts has grown a hundred and eighty-six percent in fifteen months, with Shorts on connected TV accounting for part of their growth. And then Meta recently announced that Reels for TV, uh, they're doing Reels for TV, where users can watch short-form content on television, and Reels already has a fifty billion dollar annual run rate in ad revenue. That's more revenue than WBD and NBC Universal combined. And basically everyone now, ninety-five percent of consumers now watch some sh- some form of short-form video.

Kara Swisher 43:47 Kara Swisher, don't you?

Scott Galloway 43:49 Oh, I, I, I hate to admit it. Most of-

Kara Swisher 43:51 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 43:52 People ask me what my media sources were, and I used to say the FT and The Economist to sound smart. The bottom line is, I'm getting most of my content from short-form video right now.

Kara Swisher 43:59 Me too. Me too.

Scott Galloway 44:00 And time spent watching video content on social media has more than doubled since the pandemic, and Meta's revenues have nearly tripled and TikTok's have grown tenfold. So I think that the, what, what Netflix has is they have proprietary content, so proprietary content that's not user generated but user edited. What could you do? There's some, been some amazing Netflix content that never bubbles up and never gets seen. Put it out and say, "Guys, have at it. S-slice it into two-minute things. Create new stories. Add in different effects. Add in different humor, different subtitles. Have at it." Uh, my, my, what I pitched, what I pitched, um, uh, uh, Ted, I'm like, "Start something called Netvibes-

Kara Swisher 44:44 Oh

Scott Galloway 44:44 ... and basically say it's a TikTok competitor with all the proprietary content of the long tail stuff-

Kara Swisher 44:49 I love that, Scott

Scott Galloway 44:49 ... the ninety percent that gets two percent of your viewership time."

Kara Swisher 44:53 Why did you just give away that great name?

Scott Galloway 44:55 Uh-

Kara Swisher 44:55 That was really good. You're talented. That was good. You've said two very smart things today.

Scott Galloway 45:00 It's-

Kara Swisher 45:00 I have to tell you-

Scott Galloway 45:01 It's 'cause I was under, I was under the influence. Anyways, b-but Ted just sort of rolled his eyes and said, "Why would we do that when TikTok is such a great marketing engine for us right now?" But it looks like they're saying, "Okay, we no longer... We need, we need a growth story." I think this is a great idea. I think they're doing it. And, uh, with the case of Netflix, the second mouse may get the cheese here. I think it's a great idea for them.

Kara Swisher 45:22 Oh, interesting. All right, so I'm gonna a- Let me just tell

Kara Swisher 45:25 you, the second thing is they're going all in on podcasts, which is interesting, um, and I have a lot of information about this 'cause I immediately started looking into it. Netflix has announced five more shows coming to its platforms. These are exclusive shows, including a new weekly interview show with Brian Williams. Hulu has also announced four more podcasts, including Handsome and three others based on TV shows. Hulu's, um, d- is not as strict, um, as Netflix. Netflix requires the shows to forgo YouTube entirely, and Hulu does not, it looks like. Um, so this is really interesting. So I asked what the deals were, and someone said, "Deal structure looks like this: episodic fee, low end of twenty-five K an episode, averaging, average range fifty to seventy-five K an episode, higher celeb for celeb talent. Uh, production budget on top, six to twelve-month initial terms with twenty-six to fifty-two episodes, depending on term length, ownership Netflix, but sometimes they are given, um, uh, revision rights, uh, uh, reversion rights, excuse me." So IP maybe, if they're making them. Um, I wasn't tremendously impressed with the choices they made. I like Brian Williams, but it, it seems like they should really go for a much more, um, younger demo, I guess, or more online demo, influencer demo, but that was just me. Um, what are your thoughts here? What do you think? That's a lot of money. Fifty, you know, if you got fifty thousand dollars an episode, that's, that's a buttload of money. Two point five million dollars a year.

Scott Galloway 46:54 Well, we've been talking our own book, but it doesn't mean I don't believe it. Uh, every political cycle, there's a technology. Uh, Obama weaponized search, um, Trump, Facebook. I would say the second one was about social. A lot of people would say this is now, these midterms are gonna be AI midterms with a ton of misinformation. But I think in general, this election or the last election was really the podcast election. And do you remember that graph that showed that newspapers were getting thirty percent of all ad revenue, but they only had eight percent readership, and the internet was getting ten percent of revenue but had fifty percent of all time? Those two tend to calibrate, and the fastest growing ad-supported medium in the nation is not Meta or Alphabet, it's podcasting.

Kara Swisher 47:38 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 47:39 Uh-

Kara Swisher 47:39 Which is video casting, really, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 47:42 It's, it's television with a lower-

Kara Swisher 47:44 Television

Scott Galloway 47:44 ... cost of means of production.

Kara Swisher 47:45 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 47:46 It's eighty percent of TV-

Kara Swisher 47:47 And, and a closer relationship with fans that you have, you can't leave that out. It's not just 'cause it's cheap.

Scott Galloway 47:52 And it's, and it's not starched. It's, it's not, it's not a handsome guy saying, "Save content for twenty-two minutes," and then showing a video about a butterfly garden. Uh, it's just, it's people who are willing... And some people like the conspiracy shit, and some people want people calling Hegseth a, a drunk. It, it, and sometimes people are just so fucking talented that they bubble up past the means of production that have sequestered some of this talent. A-anyways, podcasting, you know, the Golden Globes now has it as, as a category. Um, we're up. Pivot is up twenty-five or thirty percent this year. Property media is up forty-six percent this year. Podcasts are growing like crazy, and what's, what's even more interesting is the, the chaser effects are the following: the average age of a Fox viewer is sixty-nine, CNN sixty-seven, CNBC sixty-four. The average podcast listener is thirty-four.And when you're thirty-four, it means you're, you're buying houses, cars, getting kids, which are very expensive, and dogs so this is, this is, quote-unquote, the core demographic so in, and in addition, as evidenced by the fact that e- the easiest guest for Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway to get on their show-

Kara Swisher 49:07 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 49:08 ... is someone running for president.

Kara Swisher 49:10 Yeah. Oh, they were calling me all the time.

Scott Galloway 49:12 We can call anyone who's thinking, quote-unquote, not gonna make the decision in a year or two year with their family. Yeah.

Kara Swisher 49:18 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 49:18 They're calling us, and they wanna come on because they're running for president.

Kara Swisher 49:21 I get so many messages right now.

Scott Galloway 49:23 Because, because the, what's interesting is that, you know, I don't know if you found this, but on Prop two, they don't perform that well. I find that really interesting.

Kara Swisher 49:29 Some of them do.

Scott Galloway 49:30 But more interesting, I-

Kara Swisher 49:30 Buttigieg did great, I'll tell you that. Newsom did very well.

Scott Galloway 49:34 He's exceptional.

Kara Swisher 49:35 Well, Newsom did really well.

Scott Galloway 49:36 He's, he's exceptional.

Kara Swisher 49:36 That's not true. It's not true. Some of them do well. It depend... I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pay attention to what does well, which is interesting.

Scott Galloway 49:42 I find on average, politicians don't score nearly as well as some of the other guests we have. But anyways-

Kara Swisher 49:47 Maybe your audience

Scott Galloway 49:48 ... uh, in terms of downloads or viewership, but my point is, the new, uh, people actually listen to the ads. The other innovation that no traditional media company wanted to do because they decided their talent was too precious is host read overs. That gets... If you do a, if you just do an insert ad on YouTube or just an insert ad, you get between three and ten bucks CPMs. You reading over an ad, you talking about your Chevy Bolt and how much you like it, which you really do-

Kara Swisher 50:13 I love it

Scott Galloway 50:13 ... that gets a CPM of forty-five or fifty bucks. Chevy, the media company at General Motors is like th- they're, they're allocating more and more money, and now these things finally have the scale. So and, and Netflix is could be the new... Netflix is late on short-form video. They're late on podcasts, but when you have direct relationship with eighty percent of households, you can play catch up pretty fast.

Kara Swisher 50:38 One of the things that drives me crazy with the media reporters, when they were talking about the Vox thing, I was like, "You all don't get where the money is now, where the voices are, where the..." Like, it just drives me crazy because they're living in a different world. Like, when I... Not all of them, by the way, m- but when I... I've been doing a lot of press for this CNN thing, and I'm like, they're like, "Oh, is Vox trying to s- you know, just save itself?" I'm like, "No, it has valuable th- a thing that's valuable, you idiots." And so y- you know, w- and, and the same thing with these deals. They were sort of pooh-poohing them, like, "You don't understand what's happening here." And I can't say it enough. Just sitting at a table in, on a street in San Francisco with my son, the kind of peop- the people that stopped, people that stop me on the street now, it's really astonishing, like nothing I've ever done, and it's, it's... And most the people, Scott, tell me, "Thank you for doing what you and Scott are doing," or, "Thank you for doing that interview." They thank you for your content. That never happened to me before in my life, so I don't know how you feel about that, but you gotta figure it-

Scott Galloway 51:44 The most rewarding thing about it, a- and I mean, uh, look, the m- the money's great, uh, but the most rewarding thing about it is that when people come up to you, they start speaking to you as if they're, they're your friend, and it's really nice. People feel a parasocial, they have a parasocial relationship with you, and they're, they feel good about you. I think it's because you're physically in their ears oftentimes, so it creates intimacy, and also you're talking to them as they're doing something quite personal. They're walking the dog. They're doing the dishes. It's their morning routine. But I think the most rewarding thing about being a podcaster, like if you get to a certain point, it's a little bit like the NBA. W- the analogy I use is that when I rowed crew at UCLA, there's been two thousand people who have rowed crew. Ten, ten went to the Olympics, so what is that? Like, uh, point five percent, not even, point five percent went to the Olympics. It's, it's point one percent of podcasters are self-sustaining economically, so you are five times more likely to go to the Olympics if you rowed at UCLA than have a successful podcast. This is a difficult business, but once you get, once you get to break even, the economics here are incredible because there's... What do we have? We have, we have three producers. We have, we outsource our ad sales to, to, um, to Vox, and this is a fifteen million dollar business growing to twenty-five probably in the next twenty-four months. Like, just do the math. This is an incredibly... This is, creates as much EBITDA. Pivot will probably create as much EBITDA as one of the most successful shows on MS now or Fox or anywhere else. It won't be as big top line, but the EBITDA margins are just incredibly dramatic. But hands down, the most rewarding thing from a host standpoint-

Kara Swisher 53:33 It's the relationship. It's the relationship with fans

Scott Galloway 53:34 ... these really lovely people come up to you, and they start talking to you about their kids.

Kara Swisher 53:38 Yeah, and it's all kinds of people.

Scott Galloway 53:38 I mean, maybe they do that.

Kara Swisher 53:40 No, I've never had it happen.

Scott Galloway 53:41 Do they, maybe they do that with-

Kara Swisher 53:42 Never had it happen my whole career. I have had a long and pretty, like, well-known career. But I'll tell you, a very famous author was on my plane today, and he texted. He had my number. He texted me, "Just thank you for what you're doing," and I, uh, uh, he d- he didn't wanna say hi because he felt like he was bothering me, which he wasn't.

Scott Galloway 53:59 But, but what I'll say is we have, we have a responsibility, and I think our responsibility, I'm, I'm trying to live up to this, is the medium is creating good vibes. I think mostly because, and I do think this is true of most podcasts, when you go on cable TV, and this happened to me when I went on Piers Morgan or a couple times when I've gone on Fox, they're trying to engage a little bit in call-out culture and create antagonism. I have found the vast majority of podcasters, when I go on their podcast, even if they disagree with me, even if they're conservative, they're trying to present you in a fair and positive light, and I think as podcasters, we have an obligation to maintain that cultural zeitgeist, to be, to show some grace, to, even if you disagree with people, we're not in the business of calling them out. You want a thoughtful, nuanced conversation.

Kara Swisher 54:45 Yes, that's what I would say.

Scott Galloway 54:46 Let them run with their views.

Kara Swisher 54:47 N- it's okay to disagree, and it's okay to push back. I do think you have to... Informational and, like, let's hear this person is what I'm trying to do, and I'll, like, with the telethon-

Scott Galloway 54:55 You're not, your goal isn't to make them look stupid

Kara Swisher 54:57 Right. Sometimes they do

Scott Galloway 54:58 Your, your, your, your goal is to have a thoughtful discourse such that your listeners, your listeners learn, but also to demonstrate that people from different-

Kara Swisher 55:07 Yeah

Scott Galloway 55:07 ... sides of the political spectrum-

Kara Swisher 55:07 They all sit in. But you don't also want to be pushy or-

Scott Galloway 55:08 ... can demonstrate some grace towards each other.

Kara Swisher 55:10 I agree. I agree with you. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. [upbeat music] Support for this show comes from Boll and Branch. As the years go by, sleep just becomes that much more important, and not just any kind of sleep, quality sleep. Thankfully, the sheets made by Boll and Branch can help you get the REM sleep you desperately need. Boll and Branch bedding is designed for exactly that kind of rest. From their signature organic cotton sheets to plush pillows, breathable blankets, and temperature-regulating comforters, everything is made to create a bed that truly supports good sleep. It's incredibly soft, breathable, and built to get better over time. This is sleep you don't compromise on. I was lucky to get some items from Boll and Branch, and I have to say, I love them. I got a waffle blanket that I love. It's so soft. It's breathable. It's just wonderful. And especially as we go into summer, it's really nice to have a breathable, yet warm, yet not too warm blanket. Upgrade your sleep with Boll and Branch. Get fifteen percent off your first order, plus free shipping at bollandbranch.com/pivot with code PIVOT. That's Boll and Branch, B-O-L-L-A-N-D-B-R-A-N-C-H, .com/pivot, code PIVOT to unlock fifteen percent off. It's completely worth it. Exclusions apply.

Kara Swisher 56:22 Okay, Scott, we're gonna do some wins and fails. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go first, if you don't mind. I already talked about Palantir's stupid manifesto, but two people, um, Ron Conway, a really well-known figure in Silicon Valley, who I like very much. He was the one that was pushing back on... He's been-- I just really like him. He and I have had lots of beefs over the years, but he's a really legendary venture capitalist. He announced he had a cancer. He's not giving specifics about it, um, and he's fighting it. He's given so much money to medical stuff in San Francisco, incredibly generous and unusual for a lot of these VCs who just only think about themselves, but Ron's a very civic-minded person in San Francisco. Um, and people have different views with him, but I l- I really adore him, and, uh, he's, he's struggling with some cancer, and he wrote me a series of very joyful texts over the weekend. "I love you. Thank you so much," uh, 'cause I wrote him a note, and I just hope he, he has all the, he has all the money and, uh, to, to do and all the connections in science 'cause he's done so much fundraising. Um, I hope the, for the best for him. And the second one is, um, so that's a fail for mine, and same thing is, uh, Senator Warner's daughter died. Uh, she had juvenile diabetes and a series of health issues, and I, both Scott and I love talking to him. We find him very thoughtful. Um, and so I just, we are, my condolences go to him. Um, she's thirty-six years old and again struggled with, um, struggled with juvenile diabetes and ensuing bunches of issues. Um, and my win, um, is this Atlantic piece. It's a little bit of a dunker, but, uh, e-everyone is getting on board with this idea that maybe the tech billionaires aren't here to help us, which I think, um, is, is a, is a narrative I've tried to get through [chuckles] a little bit. Um, but I thought that this guy, Noah Hawley, who was responsible for Fargo and a bunch of other things I love o-online, he's been writing for The Atlantic, and I just really, really enjoy, uh, his work. Um, but I really, uh... L-let me just read two quotes from this piece in The Atlantic. Uh, it's called What I Learned About Billionaires at Jeff Bezos's Private Retreat. These guys are having their own retreats. The, the Bezos's is called Campfire, and it's, it's a devastating piece actually, and I think very true and fair. Um, "This is the hubris of accomplishment. To be declared a genius at one thing is to begin to believe you are a genius at everything. It's not that the wealthy become evil, it's that their environment stops teaching them the things that non-wealthy people are forced to learn simply by living in a world that pushes back. When, when you can buy your way out of any mistake, when you can fire s- anyone who disagrees with you, when your social circle consists entirely of people who need something from you, the basic mechanism by which humans learn that other people are real goes dark." Fantastic piece, Noah Hawley. I recommend it. It's beautifully written and incredibly fair and, um, so anyway. Yours?

Scott Galloway 59:21 I'm just gonna, I'm just parroting your comments. I did not know that about Ron Conway, and I'm sorry to hear that. Ron invested, uh, in two of my companies back in the '90s when I was playing in traffic and starting e-commerce companies. He invested-- He was one of my first investors in Red Envelope and one of my first investors in my e-commerce incubator, Brandfarm.

Kara Swisher 59:40 Oh, I didn't know that. Wow.

Scott Galloway 59:42 Yeah. And I'll say this about Ron, you know, you have good investors, and you have bad investors, and Ron, uh, I would just describe as incredibly supportive. No matter what was going on, was emotionally and financially just, like, really on the side of entrepreneurs. And, uh-

Kara Swisher 1:00:01 Mm-hmm. Very much so

Scott Galloway 1:00:01 ... I'm sorry to hear that, and I share, I share your warm wishes. Also share your condolences and sympathies with Senator Warner. Obviously, every parent's-

Kara Swisher 1:00:10 Oh

Scott Galloway 1:00:10 ... worst nightmare. Uh, I'm not-- I, I know Senator Warner. I would consider myself friendly, but I'm not close friends with him, but I have a close friend who's very close with Senator Warner. And the senator has been approached by any number of people on a regular basis, uh, about running for president, and a lot of people felt that he brought the gravitas, the credentials, and quite frankly, the kind of moder- the moderate positioning that they thought would be, uh, a great candidate for president. And, uh, what I have heard is that he, he never, ever s- ever seriously concern- uh, considered it because he was always very focused on his family. Uh, so he is that guy, not the one who's performative, "Oh, I'm gonna check with my family." He was, oftentimes, people wanted to draft him, but he was always kind of, uh, family first. Anyways, I share your, share your, uh, condolences.My, my win is much more boring. I just wanted to talk a little bit about Reed Hastings and just the incredible tenure, n- uh, ninety-nine to twenty twenty-three. Founded in nineteen ninety-seven, so he's there thirty years. So you wanna talk about, uh, from a startup to global giant. In two thousand, they had three hundred thousand subscribers.

Kara Swisher 1:01:20 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:01:20 This year, they'll have three hundred million. [chuckles]

Kara Swisher 1:01:23 I was saying-

Scott Galloway 1:01:23 The revenue went from-

Kara Swisher 1:01:24 Money

Scott Galloway 1:01:24 ... the revenue went from three billion in twenty eleven. This year, it will do forty-five billion. In terms of market value, they rejected a fifty million dollar acquisition offer in two thousand. This year, they'll-- they're now worth about four hundred billion, um, one of the largest value creations in tech history. In terms of business transformation, talk about the mother of all, you know, big, bold pivots from DVD rentals to streaming in two thousand and seven, from streaming to original content, House of Cards, and then he's gone from the US to a hundred and ninety-plus countries globally. Their profitability, tons of losses in the two thousands, multi-billions in annual profits. And then the cultural impact, uh, uh, that people don't talk enough about was that Netflix deck they put out on their culture. They talk about freedom and responsibility, no vacation limits, high-performance culture, and the thing-- I did actually take something from them. They stated out loud that they wanted to be a company known for exceptional compensation, and I've, I've tried to adopt the same thing. I've always tried to pay my people more than market, or I should say always, the last ten years. Uh, but this company, um, they took-

Kara Swisher 1:02:34 Amazing

Scott Galloway 1:02:34 ... a DVD-by-mail startup, they pivoted into streaming, they scaled it globally, and they turned it into a half a trillion dollar media platform. Thirty years, one thousand x user growth, fifteen x revenue growth, and, you know, uh, uh, uh, redefined or defined the category. Uh, I would argue one of the top five to ten tech CEO careers of the last thirty years. And you know what? He did it with a lot of grace. He was never in-

Kara Swisher 1:03:00 Grace. Oh, absolutely.

Scott Galloway 1:03:01 He was never a scandal, never shit-posting other people, never-

Kara Swisher 1:03:05 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 1:03:05 ... found drunk driving, never b- shitty tweets he had to erase or delete.

Kara Swisher 1:03:12 Never attention on himself.

Scott Galloway 1:03:13 You know, just-

Kara Swisher 1:03:14 I have to-

Scott Galloway 1:03:14 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 1:03:14 I-- Can I just add that? I've had him on stage many times, but I have to say, of all the people, I would rather spend time with Reed Hastings. And I know Hollywood all hates their system, but it's not their fault that they found a way to do a different system. It's Hollywood's fault for having a bad economic system that was no longer sustainable. They like to sort of blame Netflix. I think that's unfair. Um, they, they do what they do. That's what they make, and I don't think they're diminishing it. You just... You don't have to watch it if you don't like it in that regard. And I think they put out a lot of great content, actually. They put out a lot of silly content, too. But I gotta tell ya, what a c- he's a fucking class act. He's... So is Ron. They're class acts, all these guys you're talking about.

Scott Galloway 1:03:55 And he clearly imprinted really solid DNA. The co-CEOs now, Greg Peters and Ted Sarandos, I don't know Greg, but I know Ted, but they're both-

Kara Swisher 1:04:04 Good guys

Scott Galloway 1:04:04 ... have a reputation for being not only very intelligent, but very decent men. So Netflix, a great company, great leadership, and this guy's-

Kara Swisher 1:04:11 Agree

Scott Galloway 1:04:11 ... historic run is, is historic.

Kara Swisher 1:04:14 Historic.

Scott Galloway 1:04:14 So my win is the tenure of, of Reed Hastings.

Kara Swisher 1:04:18 By the way, one of the things I was thinking about, Scott, was you talked about that, is the decency, and we started with the incompetence, like a Kash Patel. People are fucking sick of these incompetence and these, like, look-at-me, performative, bullshit liars. Like, I don't know what else to say, but I was watching Obama and Mandami thing. Uh, they were promoting universal free childcare and singing "Wheels on the Bus." Did you see that video?

Scott Galloway 1:04:43 It was, it was, it was very, it was very-

Kara Swisher 1:04:45 It was charming

Scott Galloway 1:04:45 ... uh, likable, humane.

Kara Swisher 1:04:46 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:04:46 Humane. It was really nice.

Kara Swisher 1:04:48 Yes. It was so nice. I was like, "Enough of that, the other shit, the Kash Patels, and more of that. More 'Wheels on the Bus.' That's all I have to say." Anyway, we wanna hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nytmag.com/pivot to submit a question, uh, for the show, or call eight five five-five one pivot. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, this week on On with Kara Swisher, I spoke with comedian Nikki Glaser, uh, who has a new stand-up special called Good Girl coming out Friday on Hulu. She talked about, uh, how overcoming fear pushes her to be the best. Let's listen to a clip.

Speaker 1:05:22 I love fear. I run into fear. Picture fear as, like, a wall that you have to run into. And so I was... I kind of go into that of, like, I know that my self-esteem is built upon doing things that are hard and conquering them, so I know that on the other side of doing this horribly uncomfortable thing is, uh, i- is me feeling better about myself.

Kara Swisher 1:05:41 It's a great interview. Scott, she reminded me of you a little bit. It was interesting. It was.

Scott Galloway 1:05:44 Hmm.

Kara Swisher 1:05:44 I was talking to her. It was interesting. I think you would like her.

Scott Galloway 1:05:46 I like girls that's dirty.

Kara Swisher 1:05:47 [chuckles] She's also dirty. She talked about that. Anyway, uh, the, the show is called Good Girl, and, uh, she's not always good in the show, but actually, she is. It's a g- she's a really talented comic. I like her a lot, and very thoughtful and very funny. That's the most important part. Uh, okay. That's the show. Let's... Thanks for listening to Pivot, and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. [upbeat music]