Kara Swisher on Musk vs. Altman: "Start Wrestling with a Pig…Get Filthy” | Pivot

1. 0:00 – 1:06

   Intro

   1. SGScott Galloway0:00

      The biggest psychological tax cut in history would be if we elected a technocrat who maybe checked in once a month-

   2. KSKara Swisher0:10

      Yeah, I agree

   3. SGScott Galloway0:11

      ... but wasn't in your face every fucking day and dominating the table conversation at dinner. [upbeat music]

   4. KSKara Swisher0:23

      Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher with my annual cold. Nice.

   5. SGScott Galloway0:29

      Uh, it seems, it seems to be semi-annual.

   6. KSKara Swisher0:32

      No, no.

   7. SGScott Galloway0:32

      See, the thing is, it's kids.

   8. KSKara Swisher0:34

      Yeah, it is, but I haven't gotten sick for a while, actually.

   9. SGScott Galloway0:37

      Yeah?

   10. KSKara Swisher0:37

       It's been a while. Very long while. You remember I got sick all the time when they were babies?

   11. SGScott Galloway0:41

       I do remember that.

   12. KSKara Swisher0:42

       Yeah.

   13. SGScott Galloway0:42

       So I'm, I'm... This is gonna sound very ma, but I think I've been sick two or three times as an adult, and I'm convinced it's because I never went to the doctor and never had antibiotics as a kid.

   14. KSKara Swisher0:52

       Oh, interesting. What, really? That's-

   15. SGScott Galloway0:54

       Yeah. I get sick on the dime every ten years.

   16. KSKara Swisher0:57

       Really? Of what?

   17. SGScott Galloway0:58

       Yeah, I don't get sick.

   18. KSKara Swisher0:59

       What do you get sick-

   19. SGScott Galloway0:59

       I might cough or something. But no, I, my point is, I, I, I couldn't tell you the last time I was sick.

   20. KSKara Swisher1:04

       Anyway, let's get to the news. As we record,

2. 1:06 – 18:38

   WHCD Shooting Aftermath

   1. KSKara Swisher1:06

      Cole Thomas Allen, the thirty-one-year-old suspect in the White House Correspondents' Dinner shooting, is set to be arraigned in federal court. He'll be charged with two counts of using a firearm and one count of assault on a federal official using a dangerous weapon. US Attorney for DC, Jeannine Pirro, says more charges are expected. Allen was arrested Saturday night after running through a security checkpoint at the Washington Hilton and exchanging fire with law enforcement. Um, President Trump and top officials were rushed out of the room while journalists and other attendees took cover under the tables, except one guy who kept eating his salad. Um, the motive is still being determined, though Allen appeared to be targeting Trump and the administration officials, but not Kash Patel for some reason. According to his writings, he also mentioned lax security and that he expected more security there. He was a guest at the hotel, and he walked very close to the ballroom. I have been there. And various people are debating it, but he was very close. He's right before the stairs that you go down into the ballroom, um, having been there. Um, we'll get to, to Trump and the, the ballroom stuff, but what was your initial reaction, and what do you make of the coverage? I was, I, I was not, I... There's some people did a great job, and it's worth noting, by the way, the president, cabinet officials, and journalists' experience Saturday night is something that many Americans face every day, especially school kids, though without the protection of the Secret Service. So this was the finest protection in the land, and it didn't really work as well as it should have. Um, although nobody got hurt, um, except for one officer, uh, who was shot. Your first thoughts?

   2. SGScott Galloway2:38

      Well, my first thoughts are somewhat superficial, and that is the brand that is the US is just eroding around the world. You know, Putin isn't chased out by a gunman of a hall that's supposed to be a social gathering. It's just America comes across as a rogue nation that is chaotic and has no control internally. But immediately, I don't think, I don't think it's fair to say that the president is so incendiary that this is his fault, nor do I think it's fair to say that the Democrats being critical of the president raises ele- escalation of violence. I think at the end of the day, you have a large cohort of, of usually young men who have a mental breakdown or a psychotic break, and then they have access to firearms. And they typically go after, in what they believe will be a restoration of social capital and a heroic act of violence, they go after very, very famous people. And the thing about Trump, and I'm not saying his fault, but it is just a fact, he's in everyone's fucking face and in their brain all goddamn day over-

   3. KSKara Swisher3:42

      He said that

   4. SGScott Galloway3:42

      ... and over and over.

   5. KSKara Swisher3:44

      Yeah, he said that. Yeah.

   6. SGScott Galloway3:44

      He's like, i- i- the, the biggest psychological tax cut in history would be if we elected a technocrat who maybe checked in once a month-

   7. KSKara Swisher3:56

      Yeah, I agree

   8. SGScott Galloway3:57

      ... but wasn't in your face every fucking day and dominating the table conversation at dinner. And so the most famous people will always, unfortunately, be targets. That, that, that mental illness will manifest in more shootings as long as people have access, this type of access to guns. If he had tried to fly, he wouldn't have been able to do it, but you can cross state lines on a train with firearms. Also, my first, and I'll let you go, my, also my first reaction is when I heard about this guy, a Caltech grad who was teacher of the year.

   9. KSKara Swisher4:30

      He seemed-- He's a very good writer, by the way.

   10. SGScott Galloway4:32

       And he's very eloquent.

   11. KSKara Swisher4:33

       Eloquent, yeah.

   12. SGScott Galloway4:33

       You read his manifesto, and it's like, Jesus, I don't agree with it, but the guy is... It's just such a tragedy.

   13. KSKara Swisher4:39

       It is.

   14. SGScott Galloway4:39

       His life is ruined.

   15. KSKara Swisher4:41

       Yeah. Yeah.

   16. SGScott Galloway4:41

       And to see, to see an event-- I think the event is fucking stupid. I was invited last year. I have no desire, as part of what I'll call the fringe alternative media, show up and have basically a hijacker lecture me about air safety. I do not understand how people in the media go to a, go to a celebration in ties to hear a man say, "You're fake news, and you're..." I, I have no idea why anyone would show... Kudos to The New York Times, who does not go.

   17. KSKara Swisher5:07

       There were Times reporters there covering the president in, in the pool, which seems perfectly appropriate. They travel with him wherever he goes. But I have to say, I just, I covered it as back, as I've noticed you said I covered it back in the Truman administration. Um, I mean, I mean, the Roosevelt [chuckles] administration, TR. Um-

   18. SGScott Galloway5:26

       I got that, I got that wrong. I'm sorry. It was, um, it was, uh-

   19. KSKara Swisher5:30

       Lincoln.

   20. SGScott Galloway5:30

       Yeah, that's right. I was gonna, I was waiting for a...

   21. KSKara Swisher5:31

       Yeah.

   22. SGScott Galloway5:31

       I couldn't remember. FDR.

   23. KSKara Swisher5:33

       Yeah. Okay. I hated it when I covered it twenty-some years ago. I thought it was such a suck-up between, um, public officials and the media. I don't like the gridiron dinner. I don't like any of... I hated covering them. And even then, it seemed like so, um... It's one of the reasons I left Washington, sort of the-The cozy relationship. And now he was gonna come and insult them all. First of all, everyone in that room in his cabinet has taken shots at the press in a really repulsive way, and even though other presidents have been hostile to press, this is explicit attacks. Um, and so he was ready to... And even Carolyn Levitt said it. He's, "Some shots will be fired." That's the last thing she said, like, minutes before this happened to a, a media person, and he was gonna attack everyone. And I was thinking, I was talking to a few people there. I'm like, "What are you gonna do if he starts directly attacking you or your company? You gonna get up and walk out?" In a really gross and crass way, which he was planning to do, I believe. Um, and then, of course, he used the opportunity for propaganda. Every single one of his lackeys messaged the same thing about the ballroom. We'll get to that in a second. Um, and, and it just is this sort of... A- and I thought the press were especially lap- lap doggy throughout and also performative as influencers. Three people stood out as doing their job, which was Wolf Blitzer, who happened to be near the gunman. He just called in from his phone, and he said what happened. That's it. He didn't say, "I, I lost my shoe," which he apparently did. He didn't say, "Oh, woe is me." He didn't act like, um, it was anything but his job to say, to tell CNN what happened. Same thing with Sara Sidner, very calm. Same thing actually with Stephanie Ruhle. Tons of people, both online, especially online, and on, on the air, were like, "This is how I feel about this." And I was like, "I don't give a fuck what you feel about it. What is happening? What's going on?" Um, and a lot of, like, there was one reporter who was pointing the camera towards herself. Like, I don't know what was happening. Like, "I'm under the table." I'm like, "Good for you. If you're gonna do this, point it outwards so we can see what's hap-" There was plenty of video, by the way, which was disturbing, but, um, it just was this, like, all these media people trying to behave like and get their licks in like they were influencers, and I just... And then, of course, the influencers were too, you know, doing, you know, all manner of nonsense. So I found it very disappointing. In the press conference after, they let him get away with stuff. The only... You know, at one point, Nor- Norah O'Donnell from CBS, which has been particularly obsequious to Trump, got the interview, but Norah did try her best to do, like, a tough question. Not tough questions, but pertinent questions, and Trump called her a disgrace. So he had just minutes, just the day before, talked about unity, and then he was talk- he was calling her a disgrace and you're dis- whatever, whatever words he uses for the press. So I thought it was a fail. Uh, I thought init- the whole thing is a fail. Um, but it's, uh... A- and then there was, I mean, a party I happened to have been invited to, which I didn't go to, obviously. After, they kept doing the party. You know [chuckles] it's just weird. Anyway.

   24. SGScott Galloway8:45

       But we don't... In a, in a culture of violence where, again, for me, it all reverse engi- engineers to we don't have a monopoly on political division. We don't have a monopoly on mentally ill men. We have a monopoly on political division, mentally ill men with access to just-

   25. KSKara Swisher8:59

       Guns, yeah

   26. SGScott Galloway8:59

       ... such easy access to firearms.

   27. KSKara Swisher9:00

       Yeah.

   28. SGScott Galloway9:01

       And also, the Secret Service, there's only so much you can do. If you want a president to go out in the public, if you want him-

   29. KSKara Swisher9:07

       Yeah

   30. SGScott Galloway9:07

       ... to be able to walk around freely, if you realize-
3. 18:38 – 31:53

   Musk vs. Altman

   1. KSKara Swisher18:38

      more news. Elon Musk and Sam Altman are headed to court this week over OpenAI's conversion to a for-profit entity. Musk is asking for over a hundred and fifty billion dollars in damages from OpenAI and Microsoft, and for Altman to be removed from the company's board and, and as CEO, I think. Um, jury selection is taking place as we tape on Monday, and opening arguments are expected on Tuesday, starting off with several week-long trial. Musk, Altman, and Satya Nadella, as well as other big tech figures, are expected to testify. I m-- We got a clip from, um, actually CNN legal-- uh, senior legal analyst Elie Honig, who I've interviewed many times before, I think he's really smart, on what's to come. I thought he would have an interesting take.

   2. SPSpeaker19:17

      The thing about trial is it all comes out because both sides by now have engaged in discovery, meaning they have one another's internal emails, texts, corporate communications. Three things I'm watching for. First of all, what were Altman and Musk and their principals saying about AI? Do they view it as an existential threat or something else? Second of all, what do the employees think of the bosses? What are the people who work in these companies really saying to one another about Sam Altman and Elon Musk? What are they saying about Kara Swisher? I'll bet you're in there, Kara. I'll bet your name pops up in this trial. And then third of all, how will Altman and Musk fare on cross-exam? 'Cause these are two guys, moguls, used to being told, "Yes, sir. Yes, sir." Now they're gonna get cross-examined by aggressive litigators who are looking to undermine them, discredit them, maybe even embarrass them. How's that gonna go? This'll be fascinating. Check it out.

   3. KSKara Swisher20:07

      Uh, I thought that was pretty smart. I mean, it's... The technical aspects of this are really interesting. Um, what I, uh, don't understand is why this was going to trial, why they didn't settle. Um, the only thing I can think of is that, I mean, uh, to me, OpenAI should have somehow settled with him. But there's no plus for Musk to settle, even though most odds are that he is going to lose. Um, i- it's a really complex trial. It's a jury trial, but the jurors cannot decide on dam- remedies. The judge only can. The judge allowed certain things to go forward that most people think are ridiculous. Um, you know, most of the odds are Musk will not win, but I can't believe they didn't settle 'cause, uh, my only thing is, is, uh, Musk loves this. He's already a villain, and when you, when you start wrestling with a pig, the pig likes it and you get filthy. And so I don't think it's good for OpenAI at all.

   4. SGScott Galloway20:58

      It's interesting. I had... And again, you, you, you might be right here. I might be wrong. My f- initial reaction was that Musk has more to lose and that he'll settle right as the trial's beginning or right after it starts because-

   5. KSKara Swisher21:12

      Oh, okay. Tell me why

   6. SGScott Galloway21:13

      ... Musk isn't doing this 'cause he's... Okay, so t- the basic premise is this is supposed to be a nonprofit focusing on protecting the public from AI, okay? He then, my understanding is, wanted to buy it or he wanted to control it.

   7. KSKara Swisher21:30

      He wanted to control it, yes.

   8. SGScott Galloway21:31

      And, okay, so-

   9. KSKara Swisher21:31

      And then threw a fit and then walked out. He did walk out.

   10. SGScott Galloway21:34

       And so-- And then when Altman said, "No, you don't get to control it," he said, "Then I'm taking my ball and I'm leaving," and he signed a ton of documents saying, "I no longer have ownership in this."

   11. KSKara Swisher21:43

       Yeah.

   12. SGScott Galloway21:43

       And then when it converted to become the leading AI platform in the world, he went fucking crazy that he had-

   13. KSKara Swisher21:48

       And he has his own company

   14. SGScott Galloway21:50

       ... that he... But here's a guy who's very concerned with ensuring there's an entity policing AI safety and regulation, but he starts his own for-profit AI?

   15. KSKara Swisher22:00

       Yeah, exactly.

   16. SGScott Galloway22:01

       As your, the commentator very deftly said, these guys aren't used to a cross-examination with emails that says, "I'm not impressed with you. You are full of shit. You wanted to control this. When you couldn't control it, you threw a hi- you threw a fit. You have signed papers that are legally enforceable with no ownership, and now-"

   17. KSKara Swisher22:22

       Like the Twitter, when he took over, tried to get out of the Twitter deal, same difference.

   18. SGScott Galloway22:26

       Yeah, this guy, he's angry that he, he, he walked away from what ended up being the best... I, I'm kicking myself 'cause I've had two investments recently that have gone bad and they needed, uh, to raise more capital, and one of the things about investing early is you have your pro rata, and I wasn't sure whether to invest or not. And on one specifically, I didn't do my pro rata, and then they figured out a way to develop these innovative turbines to power off-grid AI centers, and the valuation has gone up 10X.

   19. KSKara Swisher22:52

       Wow, and so you feel like, "I'm a dumbass."

   20. SGScott Galloway22:53

       And now I'm fucking furious.

   21. KSKara Swisher22:55

       Yeah. Yeah.

   22. SGScott Galloway22:55

       But I'm not gonna go back and sue the company. [laughs]

   23. KSKara Swisher22:58

       Right. Right.

   24. SGScott Galloway22:59

       So I, I think discovery here, I think Musk's lawyers are gonna say, "You realize you can't perjure yourself. It's, this isn't Twitter. You can't lie." And when they... And he goes, "This is the..." And they, the day before, in the briefing or the coaching of him, they're gonna say, "This is what I would ask you, and you can't lie, and this is the evidence they're gonna bring up," and he's gonna go, "Settle this."

   25. KSKara Swisher23:24

       Yeah.

   26. SGScott Galloway23:25

       I think he's playing poker.

   27. KSKara Swisher23:25

       He does settle, like, by the way.

   28. SGScott Galloway23:27

       Yeah.

   29. KSKara Swisher23:27

       He, he has settled.

   30. SGScott Galloway23:28

       Remember the Delaware Chancery Court?
4. 31:53 – 42:42

   Tech Layoffs

   1. KSKara Swisher31:53

      last thing, Meta plans to lay off around ten percent of its workforce. It sort of went under the radar, six thousand open and closed six thousand open roles. The company's chief people officer said the move was being made to run the coun-company more efficiently and to offset other investments. Maybe that he lost seventy-five billion in the Metaverse. But meanwhile, Microsoft will begin offering voluntary buyouts to seven percent of US employees. One time retirement program will be available to employees whose age and years of service total seventy or higher. This is, these are just stacking up, these big tech layoffs where they're trying... I mean, I think they over-hired during COVID, as you and I both said. Um, but this is a real tipping point to impact overall employment levels, it seems. These were the big hirers, and now they're the big firers at this point.

   2. SGScott Galloway32:39

      As I said, AI is corporate Ozempic. It's turned off the signal that in order to grow, you need more calories. In, in this case, calories means employees. And I've had... I had Andrew Yang on my podcast, who's having another moment 'cause An-Andrew was very early and prescient about capital replacing labor, capital displacing labor. And, and he's now getting a lot of attention correctly for... And he's on this whole, the capital, the capital destruction of labor here is just gonna be dramatic, and he's pointing to these companies. You do, though, have to have some perspective, and that is pre-pandemic, Meta 2019 had thirty-five thousand employees. Now they have eighty. So firing eight thousand people, quite frankly, takes them back to, I think, late 2024, early 2025.

   3. KSKara Swisher33:27

      Yeah. They over-hired, that's for sure.

   4. SGScott Galloway33:29

      So the, the scary thing is these guys are early adopters of AI, and as their revenues grow, they're actually shrinking their workforce, which is amazing for earnings. But if they're the early adopters and this starts to waterfall down to other parts of the economy, you can see why people are scared. And Andrew said something really presc-- or I thought insightfully said, "The easiest people to fire are the people you haven't hired yet." And this is gonna put pressure on new hires out of college. And I, I don't wanna come across as non-empathetic, but when I graduated from Berkeley, forty percent of us had jobs on graduation day.

   5. KSKara Swisher34:09

      Yeah.

   6. SGScott Galloway34:09

      Which meant sixty percent didn't.

   7. KSKara Swisher34:11

      Yeah. I do.

   8. SGScott Galloway34:12

      And we're s-we're so used to, uh, anyone under the age of forty or forty-five has only really known one labor economy where there's a war for talent.

   9. KSKara Swisher34:21

      Right.

   10. SGScott Galloway34:22

       Especially educated talent. What's interesting about this cycle is for the first time in decades, the unemployment rate among college grads is greater than the unemployment rate among non-college grads. So I, I look at this as, quite frankly, just part of an economic cycle. I don't buy the catastrophizing. The key question is there's no doubt this is a disruption that's going to displace certain types of information work that can be routinized. The question is how severe and fast it'll be. Because typically, when we no longer need elevator operators or we no longer need sewing machine operators or secretaries, it's been slow enough such that the majority of the people are able to adapt, retrain, and find something else. Not all of them, but the majority of them. The fear here is that the V is so severe and so fast that even if there was a potential recovery, there's gonna be so many people left-

   11. KSKara Swisher35:22

       Yeah

   12. SGScott Galloway35:22

       ... out in the dust. And the-

   13. KSKara Swisher35:23

       Well, that's 'cause people were going to those jo- right? That was where the... You know, I have to say, Alex Swisher called this one a while back. He's like, "I'm going into mechanical engineering and energy." He got... Right a- I thought he would go into computer software, and he said, "No, AI will replace all these things." Um, which I thought was pretty prescient of him. And so he's working on s- areas where there is, you know, for-

   14. SGScott Galloway35:44

       Things, making things

   15. KSKara Swisher35:45

       ... making things, forward employment. And interestingly, Louis Swisher now [chuckles] may have three jobs, um, because he's working on a campaign. He's, he's, and he's, uh, trying doing cooking jobs, two really interesting cooking jobs. So he's trying a variety of things which are not replaceable, right? Which we're really, it's really kind of in... He is... I-it's just interesting, like-But I have to tell you, both of them were thinking about this without my prompting, like where is the-- where are the-- where's employment going? But, um, but y- but young people have to think really hard now about that and figure it out.

   16. SGScott Galloway36:20

       Yeah, but they'll, they'll be fine because their mom is rich.

   17. KSKara Swisher36:23

       No, I understand that, but they're making their own money. [laughs]

   18. SGScott Galloway36:26

       Sorry. A little class warfare there. By the way, Kara-

   19. KSKara Swisher36:27

       They're gonna make their own money

   20. SGScott Galloway36:28

       ... by the way, Kara, how do you spot the blind man at a nudist beach?

   21. KSKara Swisher36:32

       Oh, how?

   22. SGScott Galloway36:34

       Kara, it's not hard.

   23. KSKara Swisher36:37

       Oh. [laughs]

   24. SGScott Galloway36:38

       [laughs]

   25. KSKara Swisher36:39

       All these jokes now, they, like, take a minute.

   26. SGScott Galloway36:41

       Little second-

   27. KSKara Swisher36:41

       The jokes lately-

   28. SGScott Galloway36:42

       Little second order. I'm going for the intelligent stuff.

   29. KSKara Swisher36:45

       Oh, okay.

   30. SGScott Galloway36:45

       I'm going for the stuff that takes me an hour to figure out because I know it'll take you about ten seconds.
5. 42:42 – 45:22

   DOJ Drops Powell Probe

   1. KSKara Swisher42:42

      Scott, we're back. The DOJ is ending its criminal probe into the Federal Reserve and its chair, Jerome Powell. Although the US Attorney, Jacqueline Pierro, is warning the case could be reopened if new facts emerge. As usual, they always cover their fucking bases. Still, uh, Senator Thom Tillis says he's ready to move forward with the confirmation of Trump's nominee, Kevin Warsh, and with that hurdle removed, Warsh's confirmation by the end of Powell's term on May 15th is looking likely. At his confirmation hearing last week, Warsh rejected the idea that he's Trump's sock puppet. Um, hence he's long... Uh, how long after he's confirmed does Trump threaten to fire him? Let's just remember, Trump hired Jerome Powell. He just... It wasn't a sock puppet, and that was a problem for Trump who's trying to take over. I think Thom Tillis did a great job here. Now, let's see if Jacqueline Pierro tries to do some tricks after Warsh is, um, is, uh, in place. They could do that 'cause they're a bunch of persistent liars. Um, so, and quick thoughts?

   2. SGScott Galloway43:37

      Um, I'm glad. G- kudos to Senator Tillis. I think he's the reason that it was dropped, and I, I'd like to see most of these cases, uh, continue. I love, I love that Patel, uh, Director Patel filed a suit against The Atlantic.

   3. KSKara Swisher43:53

      I do too.

   4. SGScott Galloway43:53

      I would love the discovery against Patel.

   5. KSKara Swisher43:55

      Oh, yes.

   6. SGScott Galloway43:55

      By the way, that trial will never see the light of day.

   7. KSKara Swisher43:57

      No, he lost. He already lost one or-

   8. SGScott Galloway43:59

      His lawyers [chuckles] are gonna sit him down and go, "Okay, these are the questions they're gonna ask."

   9. KSKara Swisher44:03

      Yeah.

   10. SGScott Galloway44:04

       That was a ridiculous... That was law fare. That was a nuisance suit. I'm glad it's been dropped. That's just, that's just a, a distraction, but I also wanna bring up, I've, I've been very complimentary of Warsh. I was, again, rattled by his inability to-

   11. KSKara Swisher44:18

       Yeah, he couldn't

   12. SGScott Galloway44:18

       ... state on the record-

   13. KSKara Swisher44:20

       Well

   14. SGScott Galloway44:20

       ... that Biden won the 2020 election.

   15. KSKara Swisher44:22

       I agree with you.

   16. SGScott Galloway44:23

       It's just, it's, it's-

   17. KSKara Swisher44:23

       He was a sock puppet. I think Warren did a great job interviewing him, by the way

   18. SGScott Galloway44:27

       ... it's okay. Uh, you're supposed to be... You're claiming you're gonna be an independent Fed, which is key to the growth of an economy, and you won't. So was C- Chairman Powell appointed legally? I mean, there... A- at some point, folks, there has to be a truth, and you have to, you have to be willing to state that truth under oath, and they all state the same thing, saying, "He was duly sworn in."

   19. KSKara Swisher44:50

       Right. Yeah. Like-

   20. SGScott Galloway44:52

       Oh, my God. [laughs]

   21. KSKara Swisher44:52

       I know. I know. He really was a wimp. He definitely... It took some shine off of him, I'll tell you that, and I think they all feel that way. Like, even Tillis said to me when I interviewed him, "Look, I had to say those things, 'cause if not, I'd get run over. I would be... A martyr is dead. You know, a martyr is dead, so I don't know what to tell you." Um, and that's a really ridiculous way to hire this thing, and of course, Trump will continue to try. He has two years to try to fuck up the Fed, so he will. So Kevin Warsh, get ready. You better start to find a backbone. Um,

6. 45:22 – 49:05

   Spirit Airlines Bailout?

   1. KSKara Swisher45:22

      also speaking of communism, the Trump administration is reportedly considering invoking the Defense Product, uh, Production Act to bail out Spirit Airlines, though it's still unclear what exactly the justification would be. There's talk of a plan that would loan Spirit, which has filed for bankruptcy twice, about $500 million. In exchange, the government would own as much as 90% of the airline. It's a playbook we've seen before Trump, with the government taking stakes in Intel, U.S. Steel, and others, but Trump is facing pushback, correctly, from fellow Republicans, with Te- Senator To- Ted Cruz calling the bailout a terrible idea. Um, you've said many times that some companies deserve to fail. Is Spirit one of them?

   2. SGScott Galloway46:00

      This is fucking insane. Insane. Our... Let me get this. We're capitalists on the way up, and then on the way down, we bail out companies. We're cronies, so we're total... We're... That's not even socialism. It's cronyism. Bankruptcy, as someone who has started companies who have gone bankrupt, as someone who's invested in companies that have gone bankrupt, as someone who's been, um, an operator and investor in a company, as we pull it, emerge it out of bankruptcy, bankruptcy is a feature, not a bug. Uh, a company's... The market changes, and the company no longer can support the assets and obligations it has given changes in the market. It declares bankruptcy. They get an umbrella, basically coverage to get out of leases, to get out of capital or expenses or debt to Boeing or sell their gates. They get out of union contracts. They get to repackage, and they reemerge to fight another day.

   3. KSKara Swisher46:48

      Yeah.

   4. SGScott Galloway46:48

      When you start bailing out companies that aren't sustainable, all you do is invite taxpayers-

   5. KSKara Swisher46:54

      That's right

   6. SGScott Galloway46:54

      ... to bail out more.

   7. KSKara Swisher46:55

      Yeah.

   8. SGScott Galloway46:55

      The government is not supposed to pick winners and losers here. Delta, American, and United all had CEOs who paid themselves $150 million in compensation due to options that were artificially elevated because they took all of their free cash flow pre-COVID and used it to buy back shares, juicing their stock, juicing their options to above 150 million in compensation, and then when shit gets real and COVID comes and the airlines shut down, they all decide all of a sudden, "We're all in this together," and they go fucking hat in hand. They should have all been allowed to go bankrupt, and guess what? And we, we've decided that airlines are somewhat uniquely American and that we need to bail out Spirit. Fuck that. Burn, baby, burn. This thing, this shit should absolutely go out of business, and guess what? In three years, it's more likely to survive under the protection from its creditors of a Chapter 11 bankruptcy. This is stupid.

   9. KSKara Swisher47:51

      Stupid. I agree. I don't... You've said it best. I... It'll be interesting to see s- like, I remember interviewing Chamath Palihapitiya, who said essentially this, what he's saying now. Like, he's like, "No, what we really need to do is protect these things." You're right.

   10. SGScott Galloway48:04

       Protect?

   11. KSKara Swisher48:04

       The companies deserve to fail.

   12. SGScott Galloway48:06

       That's socialism, and as Margaret Thatcher said-

   13. KSKara Swisher48:08

       Right

   14. SGScott Galloway48:08

       ... with socialism, eventually you run out of other people's money. You end up with DeLorean.

   15. KSKara Swisher48:12

       Right.

   16. SGScott Galloway48:12

       You end up with Air France, where you pick national champions-

   17. KSKara Swisher48:16

       Do you remember what it was called? Air Chance?

   18. SGScott Galloway48:16

       ... and keep bailing them out.

   19. KSKara Swisher48:17

       Do you remember what it was called? Air, Air Chance?

   20. SGScott Galloway48:20

       [laughs]

   21. KSKara Swisher48:21

       [laughs] It was so bad. You don't, you don't remember.

   22. SGScott Galloway48:22

       But bankruptcy, I've been involved... I was on the board of Eddie Bauer. W- they put me on the board-

   23. KSKara Swisher48:27

       Oh

   24. SGScott Galloway48:27

       ... when they were going bankrupt. Remember them?

   25. KSKara Swisher48:29

       Yeah.

   26. SGScott Galloway48:29

       And, and we decided, okay-

   27. KSKara Swisher48:31

       I never liked Eddie Bauer

   28. SGScott Galloway48:31

       ... the way to, the way to do it was to... Did you just say you liked it?

   29. KSKara Swisher48:35

       No, I never did.

   30. SGScott Galloway48:37

       Oh, really? I'm shocked.
7. 49:05 – 54:34

   Soldier Charged with Betting on Maduro

   1. KSKara Swisher49:05

      Um, speaking of not clean, a US Army soldier has been charged with making four hundred thousand dollars by betting on the removal of Venezuelan leader Maduro. On Polymarket, soldier used classified information, he's quite close to the situation, to make wagers in the weeks leading up to the capture. Polymarket said it referred the matter to the Justice Department. Again, of course, of course, like nobody's catching the Trump people. They get the soldier who pulls this shit.

   2. SGScott Galloway49:28

      Exactly right.

   3. KSKara Swisher49:29

      Um, [chuckles] you know, but, uh, you know, he shouldn't be exposing classified information. But they have got to clean up their acts, Polymarket and the rest of them, because insiders, it's gotta be dead obvious to them who's doing this, right? Including the Trump family or whoever close affiliations are doing this. They've gotta go after a big fish, not this... I mean, this soldier did the wrong thing. He's betraying his, his, his, uh, job, um, but, uh, it seems like we're p- picking up the little fish here.

   4. SGScott Galloway49:59

      Yeah, but okay. I, I mean, my defense would be, well, our commander in chief is doing it, isn't he? I, I mean, I think a, I think a really scrappy state DA or attorney general should be suing this guy and then figuring out a way to have discovery at the highest levels [chuckles] to see if they're doing it. Because I think this is going on everywhere.

   5. KSKara Swisher50:16

      Yeah.

   6. SGScott Galloway50:17

      Now, I don't... I- is it fair to say he revealed confidential information, or he just traded on it?

   7. KSKara Swisher50:22

      He knew about what was... I think he was part of that team, so he-

   8. SGScott Galloway50:24

      But he didn't reveal, he didn't compromise the security operation.

   9. KSKara Swisher50:27

      Well, in betting on it, he did

   10. SGScott Galloway50:27

       ... he just traded on it.

   11. KSKara Swisher50:28

       In betting on it, he certainly did, by saying, "I know the outcome." Nobody knew who he was, but he was-

   12. SGScott Galloway50:33

       Right

   13. KSKara Swisher50:33

       ... using... So sideways, I guess. I don't know. I guess, yes.

   14. SGScott Galloway50:37

       Look, it, it-

   15. KSKara Swisher50:37

       I think so

   16. SGScott Galloway50:37

       ... there's no getting around it. It's wrong.

   17. KSKara Swisher50:39

       Yeah.

   18. SGScott Galloway50:40

       But when people who make more money as elected officials are making more money engaging in similar type behavior, whether it's trading on insider information in stocks or inside... The, the options activity before T- Trump announces anything a- about the war and the oil market is crazy. So there are clearly dozens, if not hundreds of people, p- perhaps even including cabinet members, who are making money-

   19. KSKara Swisher51:04

       Yeah

   20. SGScott Galloway51:04

       ... in the predictions markets. And so-

   21. KSKara Swisher51:06

       Yeah. Let's find them.

   22. SGScott Galloway51:07

       Yeah. So have a... And by the way, the, the, the enforcement division for crypto, that was the, one of the first divisions where they were fired.

   23. KSKara Swisher51:15

       That's right.

   24. SGScott Galloway51:16

       Anyone remo- anyone kind of, any sheriff, anyone with a badge actually looking into this stuff has been fired. Uh, the same way they've neutered the IRS because they're like, the, the greatest way, you know, the easiest way to commit crimes is to make sure there's no enforcement.

   25. KSKara Swisher51:29

       No, no cops. There was no one.

   26. SGScott Galloway51:31

       So I don't wanna say I feel for this guy, but I think his defense is gonna be pretty robust, and it's like, well-

   27. KSKara Swisher51:37

       Pointing up. Pointing up

   28. SGScott Galloway51:39

       ... and it goes back to the same thing. Polymarket and Kalshi shouldn't have to, shouldn't have to decide... I mean, so for example, I think Kalshi fined somebody for, for some congresspeople for trading-

   29. KSKara Swisher51:50

       Yeah. No, they kicked them off the platform, I think.

   30. SGScott Galloway51:52

       Kicked them off the platform. Okay.
8. 54:34 – 1:07:14

   Wins and Fails

   1. KSKara Swisher54:34

      Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Your... Would you like me to start?

   2. SGScott Galloway54:38

      You go first.

   3. KSKara Swisher54:39

      You know, I'm gonna stick, um, the, i- in between this, the Trump administration terminated sever- uh, the board, the National Science Foundation's board, um, which again, it's, he does all these things all the time. He's trying to hollow out any kind of compliance or over people who overlook anything 'cause he wants to do whatever he wants. Um, but I would have to say I, I, I think the, the media failed in this, this thing over the weekend. It was really disappointing to see so many, um, peopleActing like taking advantage of a tragedy to just stick their chests out and do these dramatic videos and act like they're influencers. I found it, found it embarrassing and sad. Um, I, uh, I, I ran into some of them, and I looked at my shoes. I didn't know what to... I-- For once I was like, "I really would like to tell them they suck." Um, but, uh, but it was, uh, it was disappointing. And obviously continued disappointment with the Trump administration taking advantage of it, but I expected them to do this and then snap right back into shape. Um, so I have very lower standards for Trump administration people, um, but not for the media, and I just... This is not the way you chase audiences to chase whatever they were chasing. It was really painful to watch. And I do-- Some people were really traumatized because it is terrifying, I suspect, to be there. But again, your job is to report the news, and that's what I would really like. And so kudos to those who did. Um, my win, um, I just... I don't know if you're watching Bette Midler on social media. [chuckles] Um, she is so funny. She is sort of has a whole new life on social media, and it's in-- it's so clever. She puts out so much funny stuff, and she just put out a protest song with a music video featuring her and her Beaches co-star, Barbara Hershey, and apparently go to a lot of these Kings marches or marches together, and I just love the two of them. I love that movie, Beaches, by the way. Um, and I just think she's using her platform in a really very much on brand with her, and I think it's, it dovetails into her incredible, still incredible singing voice and cleverness and, uh, I just really love her and I, I love her all over again.

   4. SGScott Galloway56:48

      When I was, uh, I think I was in college, and I went with my buddy Lee to see Beaches, as two men do, go see-

   5. KSKara Swisher56:55

      Yes. [laughs]

   6. SGScott Galloway56:56

      ... a movie. Anyways, and we're sitting in line. My friend Lee Lotus is literally the funniest person in the world.

   7. KSKara Swisher57:02

      Yeah.

   8. SGScott Galloway57:02

      There's only two people that make me laugh out loud. One is Lee Lotus, the other is David Frey. But anyways, we're sitting in line as you used to do at the Man Brewin, like a line around the block to see, you know, opening night of Beaches with Bette Midler and Barbara Hershey. And we knew it was about best friends, and we knew one dies, and everyone coming out was sobbing. And Lee goes, "It must mean that Barbara Hershey died. No one would sob if Bette Midler died."

   9. KSKara Swisher57:26

      [laughs]

   10. SGScott Galloway57:26

       No one sobs about the-

   11. KSKara Swisher57:27

       Oh my-

   12. SGScott Galloway57:27

       ... overweight singer dying

   13. KSKara Swisher57:28

       ... God.

   14. SGScott Galloway57:29

       And I thought that was so fucking funny.

   15. KSKara Swisher57:30

       Oh.

   16. SGScott Galloway57:30

       I couldn't stop laughing.

   17. KSKara Swisher57:31

       Yeah. It's great.

   18. SGScott Galloway57:32

       He's like, "No one's gonna be that sad about Bette Midler dying." [chuckles]

   19. KSKara Swisher57:35

       I would. She died in the-

   20. SGScott Galloway57:36

       No, but it-

   21. KSKara Swisher57:36

       She played-

   22. SGScott Galloway57:37

       No, but it-

   23. KSKara Swisher57:37

       ... uh, Janis Joplin. Do you remember? What was that movie?

   24. SGScott Galloway57:39

       Oh, no. I, I-

   25. KSKara Swisher57:40

       The Rose

   26. SGScott Galloway57:40

       Let me be clear.

   27. KSKara Swisher57:41

       The Rose.

   28. SGScott Galloway57:41

       In real life-

   29. KSKara Swisher57:42

       Right

   30. SGScott Galloway57:42

       ... pe- there will be... There are few people more beloved than Bette Midler.

Episode duration: 1:07:15