PivotKara Swisher on Trump's UFC Distraction: "This Was Grotesque" | Pivot
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
60 min read · 11,865 words- 0:00 – 0:21
Intro
- KSKara Swisher
This guy said something so terrible and grotesque at the White House. This is where this woman used to live, you fuckers. Like, back off. [upbeat music] Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, do we have a lot to talk about. Wow. President Trump
- 0:21 – 7:08
White House UFC Fight
- KSKara Swisher
celebrated his 80th birthday ringside with this UFC Freedom 250, where fighters compete in front of a crowd of 4,300, with the actual White House as a backdrop, as a marketing thing. There's a lot of marketing going on, whether it was Bud Light or, or whatever. Fa- uh, Meta had did something very laudable. They were giving these glasses to blind service members. I think their, their brand took a hit for being associated with it. Anyway, the guest list reads like a who's who's of power, tech, and money. Zuckerberg was there, who is a big, who is a big fan, and I-- This is the only thing I genuinely like about him. I'm glad he's committed to that. Whatever. Um, Joe Rogan was there, as you said, Cabinet secretary centers. Lindsey Graham looked very happy surrounded by muscled men. Of course, Paramount CEO David Ellison was in the audience as the event streamed exclusive behind a pa- a Paramount Plus paywall. Nothing says the people like a paywall. We'll talk about that more in a minute because, uh, you know, again, this one fighter grabbed and took this cheap shot at Michelle Obama, which is part of a conspiracy theory among the right, and they think-- they seem to be obsessed with her and, and the Obamas. Um, now, UFC CEO, uh, Dana White later told Time magazine, "Everyone knows my position on free speech, but I hate that kind of nonsense." I don't think you need to defend free speech, Dana. It's just this... Can't you just say, "This is, like, horrible?" Like, they c- they always have to, like, find some dumb excuse.
- SGScott Galloway
That, that's a, that's a-
- KSKara Swisher
[sighs]
- SGScott Galloway
I think that's a good-- I think that was a dec- a good comment from him. Like, the-
- KSKara Swisher
I guess. I s- it's the least he could do.
- SGScott Galloway
But we, we disagree on this because I actually think... Well, we're gonna s- I think the event was a win for the White House. Um-
- KSKara Swisher
I know
- SGScott Galloway
... uh, distinct to that dumb moment, which will get a lot of play. But, um, I-- Look, I think that essentially, just the way Tucker Carlson is trying to shore up the Nick Fuentes manosphere part of the party-
- KSKara Swisher
Yep
- SGScott Galloway
... there's still a large segment of America that wants to embrace some form of masculinity-
- KSKara Swisher
Sure
- SGScott Galloway
... and feels like it's been shoved aside. And I feel the same way about masculinity that David Frum feels about the border, and that is if progressives don't enforce the border, fascists will. And if Democrats can up, can't come up with some sort of symbolism or role models that demonstrate strength and service as masculinity, then the Republicans are gonna fill that hole with violence and misogyny, which is exactly what they're doing. And, uh, unfortunately, it not only highlights this performative, weird, dominant misogynistic form of masculinity that is just, um, in my opinion, the, absolutely the terrible role model for young men. It highlights to me that Democrats haven't been able to identify anything around an aspirational viewpoint ar-around masculinity.
- KSKara Swisher
Um, I'm gonna push back. Trump is down 10% among young men over the past few months. It's wa- they're way down on, on-
- SGScott Galloway
It's not because of this event.
- KSKara Swisher
No, I'm just saying. It's just-
- SGScott Galloway
[sighs]
- KSKara Swisher
... I think this version of masculinity-- You know what a better version? We're the Knicks, the way they were-- And I'm not-- I'm taking away the owner, who I don't particularly like. But I thought they display, you know, a lot of, uh, like, a support of women. If you notice, there was a lot of mothers.
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
There was a lot of sisters.
- SGScott Galloway
Yep.
- KSKara Swisher
There was a lot of-
- SGScott Galloway
Agreed
- KSKara Swisher
They, they always talk about, you know, the, the guy, um, the main guy, Brunson, was... You know, he gave up a big pile of money to have other people on the team, including KAT-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah
- KSKara Swisher
... Karl-Anthony Towns.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, he wants a ring. He wants a ring.
- KSKara Swisher
He wants a ring, of course.
- SGScott Galloway
He-- Yeah, yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
But it's, like, it just shows, like, the, the difference of the watch parties was really rather-
- SGScott Galloway
Agreed. Yeah, agreed
- 7:08 – 15:08
Paramount/Warner Approval
- KSKara Swisher
speaking of Paramount with, uh, got Justice Department approval, the wor- the merger has just cleared a key hurdle. The DOJ says its review found the roughly $110 billion deal is unlikely to harm competition for consumer or consumers, removing a major federal obstacle. The deal isn't done yet, though. The state attorney general, including California, are still reviewing the transaction and could challenge it. Uh, David Ellison said the merger remains on track to close by September. He's got to, because after that, a so-called ticking fee would kick in, making the acquisition more expensive. European regulators are still weighing approval. What's interesting to me is the Justice Department apparently shut down its investigation into Paramount's bid to buy Warner Brothers before career staffers even had a chance to weigh in, and those lawyers weren't just skeptical of the deal. They were actually leaning towards recommending the DOJ sue to block it, arguing that combining two of Hollywood's biggest studios would be bad for competition. But with the Ellisons and Trump, the fix apparently was in. We- we'll get to the Roku deal, which actually Fox just bought Roku, but these mergers are just coming fast and furious, and I think no one was surprised by this. It's a question of if the states or European Union can slow this thing down. But hi- are you con- you were concerned with Netscape with higher prices. Um, how do you feel at this moment?
- SGScott Galloway
Netflix with higher prices?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, the, the reality is if the economists I talk to say that it's hard to say these guys have a monopoly when you look at the fact that the combined viewership still won't rival, um, uh, YouTube's, uh, when you look at the revenue, it's nowhere near what the revenue is for, you know, the media companies, the tech media companies we talk about. So you can accuse them of overpaying. I had a chill run down my spine over the weekend when I read that Mark Thompson is being considered as kind of the manager they need to come in for CBS News.
- KSKara Swisher
The only one. Actually, the others who they mentioned said no, [laughs] but go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
It just all of a sudden it sent a chill down my spine. I'm like, "What? The Ellisons own CNN?" I just like, it hadn't fully down-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... it hadn't fully dawned on me.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, I keep telling you. [laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
But from a straight, from a straight regulatory standpoint-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... there was really no, in my opinion, valid reason, uh, to block it. Um, and, and by the way, I've switched on that. I was worried about the consolidation of media, but when you include competitors around watch time, revenues, there wasn't, there really wasn't an economic argument. Now, the, in terms of mergers, you're gonna see a flurry of them, because anyone who's thinking, "Maybe we'd like to buy companies," they're like, "Let's do it while the doing is good."
- KSKara Swisher
Mm.
- SGScott Galloway
Because-
- KSKara Swisher
Might not be good
- SGScott Galloway
... if you get a Democratic administration in there, you, you're gonna have much more scrutiny around these mergers.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And, I mean, you already see it. You already see, you already see attorney generals, AGs in blue states getting much more excised about this merger than the federal guys. But it's, it's going through, and it'll be really interesting to see what kind of the, the first moves are or ramifications of a con- of this consolidated company.
- KSKara Swisher
Well, they've got that debt to deal with as... You know, I, I've just recently interviewed a whole bunch of big media company, just 'cause that media people, and they're all like, "This debt is fucking ridiculous." They, most of them are very much focused on the debt and the math of the situation. I think they'll have to make enormous cuts, and, you know, it, a lot of the rest, speaking of distraction, a lot of the rest is a distraction. With the CNN thing, I, well, you know my feelings on that. Anyway, um, let's go on. I mean, I'm, I'm leaving, um, as soon as I can. Um, okay, let's-
- SGScott Galloway
So you're out. You're out of CNN.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes. Yes, yes. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
You've been trying to talk me into doing shit at CNN-
- KSKara Swisher
No
- SGScott Galloway
... for 24 months.
- KSKara Swisher
No, that was before. You're not listening to me. Do you ever, do you invest in our relationship? [laughs] I've been saying it publicly for a long time.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, that's why, that's why lesbians have the highest rates of divorce, 'cause both of them are listening.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes.
- SGScott Galloway
It's important that in a relationship that the man not listen a lot. That's key-
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs] Well, I'm not used to that
- SGScott Galloway
... to the survival.
- 15:08 – 22:02
Fox Buying Roku
- KSKara Swisher
is buying Roku in a twenty-two billion dollar deal that could reshape how Americans watch TV. It's a big play for advertising-based television. Just so you know, Fox gets access to over a hundred million households worldwide. Lots of people use this, combining its live news, sports, and Tubi streaming service with Roku's massive platform. The combined company would become the third largest player in US television by share of viewing, putting real pressure on the likes of YouTube and Netflix. It's, I, I've always liked Roku. Roku will operate under the Fox umbrella with Roku founder Anthony Wood, who's a really interesting person, joining Fox's board in a subordinate role. That's interesting. Fox's shareholders own about seventy-three percent of the combined companies, with Roku shareholders holding the remaining twenty-seven, and the deal still needs a sign-off from both shareholder groups and regulators. Um, uh, it's interesting 'cause they deliver all the networks into living rooms. You know, they're like, it's almost like a cable company in a weird way. Um, I use, I think I'm using my Roku in Brooklyn, like, because I didn't wanna get the cable bundle or something like that. I haven't hooked it up yet, but I, I've always liked Roku. I don't use it that much, but I thought, I thought Anthony did a nice job. And, uh, I'm just curious, you know, he can't get any bigger, presumably, is why he's selling.
- SGScott Galloway
I think it's a great move. I, I, I, something I didn't see companying, uh, coming, and the moment I looked at it, I'm like, "This makes all sorts of industrial logic." Um-
- KSKara Swisher
Who else could have bought Roku, just before you move on from that? Who else?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, there's the, there's the obvious, like, [laughs] there's the obvious Warner Brothers, Paramount, um, Disney. Um, I mean, th- this isn't a, they have assets that are, that are i- incredibly important. They have, I mean, uh, they have a ton of first-party data. They, they have first-party data across a hundred million households, which is a really strategic asset. It gives Fox a direct viewer relationship that cable and broadcast never offered advertisers, right? So, 'cause you had the cable company in the way. Um, Fox is, projects four hundred million in run rate cost synergies.
- KSKara Swisher
They needed this. They needed this.
- SGScott Galloway
It's a really savvy, bold move.
- KSKara Swisher
It is. I thought, "Oh, my God, Murdoch was the dumbest I thought."
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, this just makes a lot of sense.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
What's interesting is they actually sold their shares at, uh, in Roku at fifty-eight bucks a share to fund their acquisition of Tubi, and now they're buying back in at a hundred and sixty. Fox will-
- KSKara Swisher
Hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... own roughly seventy-three percent-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, I didn't know that
- SGScott Galloway
... of the combined company. Um-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. No, no, no, but w- we, uh, yeah, I just said, but w- they had had shares before?
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, so my understanding is that, um, Fox actually, they, they had Roku shares in March of twenty twenty, and they sold them at fifty-eight bucks a share-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, when they were, oh, when they were-
- SGScott Galloway
... to fund their half a billion dollar Tubi acquisition.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, which has been very helpful to them.
- SGScott Galloway
So, uh, look, this is a company that's making a big, bold bet, recognizing their core business is in structural decline. I think it's really, like, I, I think the folks at Fox are really smart.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, this is a smart move. I thought that. That's ex-- I'm like, "Huh." But it is a big bet on advertising-based versions of this, right? 'Cause Roku is advertising-based, and it's not subscription-based. So-
- SGScott Galloway
But, but here's the thing. I- if you look at the trends Subscription has been eating into-- subscription streaming has been eating into linear advertising-supported TV for the last twenty years. In twenty twenty-four, it stopped gaining share.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
It's like fifty-fifty right now.
- KSKara Swisher
Too much, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
So, I mean, for example, I don't know if our listeners know this, they can watch Pivot or Prof G Markets on Roku. It's available. Uh, we have a channel on Roku. Um, uh, a-and it, it gets huge, huge viewership. I mean, the company, Roku's probably the most important-
- KSKara Swisher
Is it a significant revenue generator?
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, no. It's, it's-- I-- We launched two months ago, but my attitude is, if you, you look at enterprise value, just, uh, and I'll try to be transparent about what we're trying to build at Prof G Markets and what we're trying to build at Pivot. If you're-- The way you increase enterprise value and increase the multiple on your EBITDA is, one, by right now adding subscription revenue, which we're doing on Substack, and two, having alternative distribution and different, uh, in differentiating your media mix or your revenue mix. So what starts small, I think will do, you know, a hundred or three hundred grand in revenue from Roku ad or advertising on Roku by serving all of our pods on Roku. But what you want is when you-- if you ultimately are thinking about enterprise value, it's a multiple of your profits and your growth. But what increases the multiple is how enduring that revenue is, i.e., as much subscription revenue as possible, and also-
- KSKara Swisher
It's not much
- SGScott Galloway
... a diversified set of revenue streams.
- 22:02 – 35:07
SpaceX Is Public
- KSKara Swisher
uh, of course, this seems like a hundred years ago, officially public, and as, uh, one Scott Galloway predicted, it did indeed close up on its first day of trading, and you had said it was gonna be about twenty percent and not more, which is interesting. It was a nineteen-point something percent. Shares, uh, are at a high of a hundred and seventy-seven at the time of this taping after the company's public debut on Friday, m- making the current market cap two point three two trillion. You thought it might be a scooch under, under two. Um, its first day on the market, over five hundred million shares traded hands. A lot of movement here. Um, Elon himself, of course, crossed the milestone thanks to the pop, becoming the world's first trillionaire. There were some notable buyers. Gina Rinehart, Australia's richest person, bought over a billion-dollar stake in the company, and Cathie Wood's Ark Investment bought more than five hundred million dollars worth of stock. So go through if there's anything surprising there, 'cause, uh, venture, and also venture funding for US space technology firms, excluding SpaceX, jumped seven point five billion dollars in twenty twenty-five from two point five billion the previous years. Probably we'll see if that goes anywhere, uh, 'cause it's a, it's also a mon- it can be a money furnace, um, as you, the word you use. But ex- any thoughts on where it is right now?
- SGScott Galloway
I thought that the bankers and, and Musk, and... Look, I, I think the most significant thing here is that this, we've never seen such engineered, manufactured scarcity. There was tens of billions of dollars of demand for this IPO that has never existed for an IPO before. And then you combine it with the fact that unlike other IPOs that went public on the Nasdaq, it o- didn't have to float more than ten percent. It only floated five percent.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, very scarcity, as you said.
- SGScott Galloway
So you've just created manufactured scarcity. Now, to be fair, it's up again today. So this has created a level of excitement in the market. I do think y-y-you, you have to highlight the positives here, and that is I never wanna be someone that demonizes success. There are fourteen new billionaires in Texas that you've never heard of. Those people will give money away. They will start new businesses. Something that's uniquely American is that we continue to produce companies like this and entrepreneurs like Elon Musk. It's gonna create a lot of economic growth. You're gonna see a surge in philanthropy from Berkeley to the University of Texas. It inspires a lot of people. It, it, it is There's a lot of positives here, and we're seeing venture funding increasing in, you know, space related, um, projects. So there, there's, there's a, a lot to like here. You know, I don't like the manufactured scarcity and the, what I'll call the overlying narrative of sort of like the hero's journey here.
- KSKara Swisher
Right. And the numbers at certain businesses are not great.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, look, this... From a valuation standpoint, and this is, this is what Musk has always been able to do, is to create this, this, uh, narrative over numbers that's like no one else in history. Um, so but right now the stock is trading thirty percent above the IPO price. Um, and then he has also, a-again, and I'm... I go back to governance, there's all these different lockups. Like if you trade on a certain platform and you bought shares through a direct share purchase on a certain platform, they technically don't have a lockup, but, but they, if they sell their shares, they can't trade on the platform before, which is like a soft lockup. There's certain, uh, criteria around when you can sell-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... if the stock is up a certain amount, et cetera.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, that was interesting.
- SGScott Galloway
To be fair, Elon's locked himself up. I doubt he's planning to sell. He'll just borrow against his stock. But what they've effectively done, which you're not supposed to do, is they've created different class of sh- classes of shares, which you're not supposed to do. So again, I find that this is, this is really inspiring and important and going to be great for economic growth on certain levels. I also believe that this entire sector is gonna have, not a collapse, but a pretty serious drawdown when people, after two or three earnings calls, are forced to justify anything resembling a future that involves the kind of earnings built into this thing. So-
- KSKara Swisher
Right. And then the rush to space technology firms, same thing. They're gonna overinvest, which is normal, like I would assume, presumably.
- SGScott Galloway
And that, and quite frankly, that's one of the great things about America, 'cause we overinvested in the internet and the technology survived and a lot of those companies came back and that investment was good, but you didn't wanna be one of the, one of the investors overinvesting initially.
- KSKara Swisher
Toys.com. Yeah. Or whatever.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. So but I said, somebody called me, and I said this on Pivot. Someone called me and said, "I g- I have allocation. Should I take it?" And I said, "Take it and trade out on the first trade."
- KSKara Swisher
If you buy it and trade out, you don't do as... most people don't do as well except in certain cases, right? It's... There were all these like really interesting statistics of buying and selling, um, that were not good in the long run over, over time. It's just you gotta hit the exact right one or you lose mo- money most of the time.
- SGScott Galloway
This was different because... So first off, uh, trading out, trading out, you, you get short-term capital gains at a higher rate. So there's a lot of evidence that shows that just generally with investing, you're better off just buying and trying to never sell. It's just, trading, trading is a difficult, is a difficult game. I thought, and I said this, I said, "They are going to manufacture a twenty percent pop."
- KSKara Swisher
Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
The bankers-
- KSKara Swisher
Exactly. Exactly
- SGScott Galloway
... and everyone are figuring out a way to create a supply-demand imbalance that will exactly peg this at a twenty percent pop. What's impressive and punctures that theory is that it's up another eleven percent today. And the thing that, also just the thing that deserves a nod is the best VC in the world is not Andreessen Horowitz or whoever initially funded SpaceX.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. TL, Founders Fund. Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, it's, in my opinion, it's Uncle Sam, in that SpaceX investors and the banks taking SpaceX public should remember-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... that we would not be here today without grants-
- KSKara Swisher
Not NASA
- SGScott Galloway
... from the federal government.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
In two thousand and eight, SpaceX was on the verge of bankruptcy and would likely have run out of money if not for a grant from NASA.
- KSKara Swisher
Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
And the golden law-
- 35:07 – 45:00
White House vs. Anthropic
- KSKara Swisher
has n- had 90 minutes to take down its most powerful models, Mythos and Fable, which is Mythos, but the public version of it. On Friday, at the request of the government who cited a national security threat, the Trump administration issued an order barring all foreign nationals from having access, including Anthropic's own non-US employees, including... There were some, a lot of them at the top, essentially forcing the company to take it offline. The decision was probably made after a conversation with Amazon's An- uh, Andy Jassy, who told officials researchers in his company got Fable to provide information to be used in cyberattacks. Anthropic went, uh, sent staff to Washington to meet with the White House officials to try to fix the dispute. I'm sorry. I just think they're waiting for an excuse here, um, to get Anthropic. Um, I think maybe Jassy might have said this, but the minute they could, they jumped on Anthropic. And, uh, and of course, Anthropic's making the argument that every other model can do this too, um, and they're just cherry-picking. Um, by the way, um, uh, the company is also being sued for its $200 a month AI plans with consumers alleging it oversold the usage allowances it offered. Um, so, uh, so that's that. And then, by the way, a coalition of states' attorney generals have opened an investigation into OpenAI. The company was served with a subpoena seeking, uh, documents related to its activities and impact on users, including activity related to minors and seniors, handling of health data, and company policies. Earlier this month, Florida became the first state to file a lawsuit against OpenAI and Sam Altman, alleging, uh, the two, uh, knowingly released an unsafe product. Um That's an interesting... That's a separate thing, but this Anthropic attack by the White House is really interesting. Uh, of course, they were just waiting for something to come at them, as usual. David Sacks just lies in wait.
- SGScott Galloway
[sighs] I have mixed emotions here because I, I think it's a good thing. I'd like to think that the government's involvement in acting crisply around the threats of AI is overdue. So I applaud the government moving in crisply and saying, "We need to shut this down until we understand it better." I, I applaud that. The problem is, I don't trust these people. I don't know what their motivations are. I don't know if they're generally concerned about the well-being-
- KSKara Swisher
No. No. The answer is no
- SGScott Galloway
... of society, or if this is just politically motivated, trying to shut down one company-
- KSKara Swisher
A competitor
- SGScott Galloway
... because you have political donors at the other.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And it supposedly, I just got off-
- KSKara Swisher
Precisely
- SGScott Galloway
... I just had Ian Bremmer on the pod talking about Iran. He said at the G7 meeting, the shutdown of Anthropic was a bigger topic than the memo of understanding in Iran, because if you're a foreign company and you've deeply integrated Anthropic into your, your, your workflow, and all of a sudden it's turned off, uh, you know, it, it, it's like, okay, does this mean the government has a kill switch for AI that when whoever it is, is angry at them, just turns it off?
- KSKara Swisher
That's right.
- SGScott Galloway
So this is... Again, this all comes down to the same fucking thing. You don't trust these people. You don't-
- KSKara Swisher
And why isn't there a congressional, like, everybody has to live by it. Why, what does Andy Jassy make-
- SGScott Galloway
A blue ribbon committee. Yeah
- KSKara Swisher
... have a conversation? I'd like to hear from Andy fucking Jassy right now. What did he say? What is he like... Why did he... He's, they're an investor in Anthropic, by the way, so I'm not sure I even trust that story. I don't even know if I trust the Jassy part of the story. I'd like him to speak out, um, publicly about it. But yeah, I agree. I don't trust these fuckers, and I think they're doing it to kneecap Dario 'cause he's been a nuisance for them.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. He's not their chosen... He's the one that said no on self-healing wea- or, you know, on, on weapons or privacy violations, so he's on their shit list.
- KSKara Swisher
They're gonna get him.
- SGScott Galloway
And, uh, you know, I love the idea, but Dario and Anthropic would say, perhaps correctly, that these same jailbreaks are things that the reason why they shut down are available on other models.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
So again-
- KSKara Swisher
Right. Again, they're not a perfect company. I get that they're being sued for over-allowances. I just think there's gonna be... They are in the front, and they are not going along with this administration, so you're gonna see all manner of nonsense attacking them. And some of it, you know, it'll, you know, I don't think they're perfect. I don't think... You know, I think he can be a little bit, you know, righteous. Uh, but at least it's righteous for the right things for on some level. And I just think this is a... As I said, this is not about national security. This is about a beef and a rumble between different Silicon Valley interests. That's it seems to be.
- SGScott Galloway
We, we need, we need a panel or a regulatory body that's bipartisan with experts, economists, philosophers who say, "Okay, maybe it shouldn't take ten years to release an AI model for the public, similar to the way it does for drugs, but we need thirty days in an institution or an agency represented by, that briefs Congress that says, 'Okay, before you release anything, it's got to go through this thirty, sixty, ninety-day screening where we bang the shit out of it.' And everyone is subject to the same regulatory approval." And that kind of regulatory certainty w- is good for the economy. It's good for companies. They wanna know what rules they're playing by. They don't wanna have to think, "Jesus Christ, do I gotta go to a fucking UFC fight or fear that they're gonna turn off my, you know, my next version of this product?" But supposedly, it's created chaos abroad because a lot of companies-
- KSKara Swisher
That's interesting. Sure is. Yeah. The whole thing is
- SGScott Galloway
... and even defense departments and NATO members decide to use Anthropic into their scenario planning or, or to figure out when to turn off and on power that runs into hospitals, and all of a sudden they've got to go, "Okay, you mean one, one guy based on criteria we can't figure out has, has, again, a kill switch on an important technology."
- KSKara Swisher
But uh, it to me, uh, if you read David Sax's stupid excuses, he's such a pompous ass, and I just trust, uh, none of this. They do not care about all of us. They care about this Silicon Valley beep, and you can feel like the hand of others here. It just, it's just you don't trust him. Like you said, I think you put your nose on it. Now, what's more serious are these lawsuits, you know, in terms of how good their product is and whether it's accurate or not. I just... You know, uh, that's, to me, where some of the real issues are gonna come with all these companies, all the social media companies, everybody else. It's impact, whether it's data centers or miners or bad health stuff or bad data. But unsafe products is actually where I think the action is.
- SGScott Galloway
This is also... I think this is headed one way, and that is it'll, it'll probably result in the administration putting all sorts of restrictions on like Chinese open weight models trying to come into the US and disrupt what is becoming an increasingly difficult case to justify the ROI on these, these token expenditures. And so, uh, this is, this is, this is again, gonna take on its own sort of tariff feel and geopolit-- It helps a company like Mistral out of France, um, who is not subject to the same things, although supposedly that's inferior technology. I'll be very cur- I wouldn't be surprised at all if all of a sudden Trump decides these Chinese... That American firms can't use these open weight models coming out of China. But this is the next big political football, I think, is who and how gets to use American AI firms and what AI, what AI models are allowed into the US.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yeah. Perhaps. I do think these sa- safety things are, are building with parents and everyone else. I just do. I think the... As you said, the brand AI has gotten so many hits, it's almost like this idiot who got hit in the head and said racist and misogynistic things at the UFC fight. It just is getting, it is getting a bad rep, and it, there's gonna be legal implications, I think, 'cause I think people are upset and angry, and it's not, as Mr. Wonderful Uh, says about his data centers, the Chinese fault. It's your own. All right. Uh, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. [gentle music] Support for this show comes from Teleport. In the AI era, one of the biggest questions is how to contain agent behavior in your production infrastructure. In Teleport's survey of more than 200 infrastructure leaders, the company found that those confident in their AI deployments had more than twice the incident rate of those that aren't, 72% versus 33%. Let's talk security basics. The most frequent causes of data breaches are human error and compromised credentials. But in the AI era, the challenge is that agents with broad privileges can find these credentials and gain access to sensitive data. Teleport establishes a unified identity layer for humans, machines, and agents that is cryptographically backed, which enables agents to be controlled and contained with the same rigor that you apply to other actors in your infrastructure. Security is complicated, but with Teleport, it doesn't have to be. Download the free report at goteleport.com/pivot.
- SGScott Galloway
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- KSKara Swisher
Okay, Scott,
- 45:00 – 59:57
Wins and Fails
- KSKara Swisher
let's hear some wins and fails. Would you like me to go first?
- SGScott Galloway
You go first, Kara.
- KSKara Swisher
This is-- I'm gonna do a win and a fail together because one of the things around this UFC thing is Meta's used the opportunity to do PR for itself, which, uh, fine, I don't really care, around this, uh, giving blind veterans these glasses, right? These glasses that help them s- navigate. I think this is a great thing. I don't care if it's a PR thing. I don't care any manner of it. I do think... I, I've, I know, and Amanda was actually telling me this is really helpful for people who have, uh, disabilities like blindness, these glasses. I think all of them, not just Meta's, but everybody's, not these Ray-Ban ones, but I suspect Apple will have a lot of utility for people who are blind. I think it's very exciting, and I think it's a good thing. Look, I don't mind if you use PR for doing that. Like, I get it, and it's fine, and it helps people, and I, and I laud, I give it laud. This was an effort pushed by Dina Powell, who they just hired, and good effort, and they should do a lot of these things. Nonpartisan would be great. They don't have to just m-mob up with Trump all the time. They should go with everybody to do these things to help people. And again, I don't care if they get a PR win off of it. That's fine by me. What I think is that them being... do-doing it during this UFC fight took the focus off the veterans in that way. You know what I mean? Because it just is like, ugh, God, didn't you expect that something terrible would happen here? And so I, as I said, I really do admire Mark Z- [chuckles] like of MMA. It's kind of like the, one of the most human things about him. But, um, but it just was like, here's something that's for good, and then you get this, this idiot say something and create all manner of problems for them. Um, so it was, it was a good attempt, and then it got drowned out. Something good got drowned out. And again, I don't even mind if you trot Ivanka Trump out. I just, I don't love it, but whatever for these kinda things. But if it helps these veterans, a good thing. I just think it got in the way of what the veterans, they were trying to do for veterans, which I think is a real thing. Um, but they should do a lot more nonpartisan things that helps the rest of us. Um, but any, you know, as they say, anything Trump touches turns to shit, and that's w- I felt that. My dad's a, was a veteran. I have a lot of family members who are veterans. I wanted to be a veteran. As I s- always say, I would've been, being, I would've been an admiral about to be fired by Trump right now if that, if I had, had my career choice. Um, but it was... I, I, I really felt bad that this was, got sucked up into this ridiculous nonsense at the White House with UFC. Thank you.
- SGScott Galloway
I just, the vision of you being an admiral, I don't-
- KSKara Swisher
I would be an excellent admiral.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I know.
- KSKara Swisher
I would. By the way, Dina White's on the board of Meta too, just so you're aware.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, okay. Do you have... W- d- was that a win and a fail?
- KSKara Swisher
That's win and fail because I was like, "Ugh, here's something good," and here it got sullied, and the, the story as usual went off onto another way, and I don't blame the media for it. I don't blame... I m- this guy said something so terrible and grotesque at the White House. This is where this woman used to live, you fuckers. Like, back off. Like, and say you're sorry. Say you're fucking sorry for that piece of shit. Anyway, go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
My win here is, um, uh, the social media ban in the UK.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, yes.
- SGScott Galloway
Britain just announced the world's strictest teen social media law, going further than Australia, the country that, uh, inspired all of this. Uh, Prime Minister Keir Starmer announced Monday that TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, Snapchat, Facebook, and X will be banned from offering services to under 16s. As someone who has a 15-year-old in the house, I can tell you that I think the most negative, anxiety-inducing thing in our household is our, uh, uh, 15-year-olds' usage of social media. And people say, "Well, that's a parenting thing." No, it, it, [chuckles] they, they pay for the tube with their phone. If, if you tell them not to use social media, they're isolated from their friends and become more depressed. This needs to be a collective ban, and that's what the prime minister here did. There is no reason, no justification for anyone under the age of 16 being on any social media platform. Some people will say, "What about YouTube?" Fine, put out a kids, put out a kids version of YouTube. I'm down with that. But this goes into effect in spring of 2027. Um, overnight, it curfews and infinite scroll limits under consideration. Uh, or excuse me, overnight curfews and infinite scroll limits are under consideration. Liability falls on platforms, not on children or parents. Uh, it's consistent with Australia's approach, which fines companies up to 50 million for non-compliance. It needs to be a percentage of revenues, I would argue. And then, uh, Britain's existing Online Safety Act has already cut visits to p- porn sites by a third and raised the share of children encountering age checks online from 30% to 47%. Spain, Spain, Greece, Sloven- Slovenia, and France are already pursuing similar bans. And Australia's 2020, December 2025 law has officially triggered a global cascade. And a study of 18 to 24-year-olds found out that not using social media for one week significantly reduced symptoms of anxiety by 16%, depression by 25%, and insomnia by 15%. This isn't just a win for, uh, teen mental health. This is, this is a win for democracy. The more time you spend on social media, the less you believe in democracy.
- KSKara Swisher
Can, you know, can I... One thing you pointed, if they had gone and tried to make a safe product, like that's, you know what they're gonna do? They're gonna say, "It's not gonna work in Australia. It's not gonna work." That's their argument. It's never about the thing. It's never about that this is deleterious. And by the way, speaking of which, that movie's coming out, "The Social Reckoning," which is the part two of "The Social Network," uh, Jeremy, um, what's his name? Guy Strong from, from "Succession" is playing Mark Zuckerberg. L- As I noted last week, why do they never talk about the thing? They just say how it doesn't work and how it does this and this and that, but they never wanna talk about the thing, which is, are you hurting people with your unsafe products? But go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but again, I, I, I don't think we should fall into the trap of believing that the owners of McDonald's or Ford are gonna figure out, are gonna focus on anything other than what car do Americans wanna drive, what's the design?
- KSKara Swisher
Fair.
- SGScott Galloway
And we don't give a shit that it gives you diabetes. We just want basically a food orgasm in your mouth. It's up to us as voters, and we have done this, to implement, to appoint really smart people who decide to devote their lives to government and regulatory concerns to protect the well-being of the, of, of the commonwealth. If we're waiting on these companies to start thinking about the safety and harms of their product, good fucking luck.
- KSKara Swisher
True, but look at the cost we pay for obesity and fat. Like this, like why do we keep doing this to ourselves? That's the thing.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I, I, I agree, but when you say we doing it to ourselves-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, the voters, I guess, yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... the, the capitalist system is companies are rapacious, engage in full body contact-
- KSKara Swisher
You stay on
- SGScott Galloway
... violence, not worried about other people, worried about getting a product that commands margin. And quite frankly, that works as long as you have regulatory bodies ensuring that opiates don't gut, you know, small towns in Appalachia. We can ask the question, we can all hope for a guy who's in charge of AI with hushed tones-
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
... who just adopted a baby boy, and he's concerned about AI, and this really attractive woman who says, "We need to do better, and we, we are open to regulation."
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
They're all fucking whores. And we have built a whorehouse-
- KSKara Swisher
We have built
- SGScott Galloway
... and the whorehouse works.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, whorehouse.
- SGScott Galloway
But you have to have a cop.
Episode duration: 59:59
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