PivotMitch McConnell Finally Appeared in a Photo. Kara and Scott Aren’t Buying It | Pivot
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
75 min read · 14,750 words- 0:00 – 5:11
Intro
- SGScott Galloway
This isn't a story about Mitch McConnell. It's a story about American political system that refuses to make room for the next generation. [upbeat music]
- KSKara Swisher
Hi, everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, um, I wanna understand why you took Ed to the game and not me. Explain where you were. I'm teasing. I don't wanna know.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, it's 'cause I like Ed more. Um-
- KSKara Swisher
I figured, yeah, yeah. [laughs] Explain where you were.
- SGScott Galloway
You have no interest in World Cup.
- KSKara Swisher
I would've gone had I been asked. I would've considered it. In any case.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, do you wanna go on Wednesday to Atlanta?
- KSKara Swisher
No, I don't. [laughs] No.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, okay, so don't give me shit then. Um-
- KSKara Swisher
Do you wanna fly me there? Well, you know, last minute, I can't get places like you can. Um, l- explain to me what you did. Just tell people where you were 'cause you were quite-- You looked the happiest I've ever seen you, I have to tell you.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, I might've been the happiest I've ever-- or I've been in a while. Uh, look, I, I have no interest in sports. I decided consciously-- I used to play a lot of golf 'cause when you're in your 30s and trying to run a strategy firm and you're basically renting your brain to old white guys known as CEOs, you have to play golf every weekend.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
That's the only... Anyways, and I decided about 20 years ago I was gonna pour all the time I was spending on golf into fitness, and I played sports in college, but I, I have no interest in professional sports. I think it's mostly a waste of time. Every four years, I go crazy for the World Cup, and this one has been the most special of the three because the way I describe-
- KSKara Swisher
It's England
- SGScott Galloway
... the World Cup right now is it's a bunch of cousins who just love each other, and their parents are out of town, and they're doing a sleepover despite the fact their parents don't get along.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, okay. All right.
- SGScott Galloway
And I think when you're sitting in that stadium, and I, I went through a lot of logistics and costs to get from Italy to Hard Rock Stadium in Miami and find seats for me and-
- KSKara Swisher
It was Miami. I didn't know where that was. Yeah, Miami. Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
It was Miami. It was me-
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
... two friends, and my youngest. But when you're in that stadium and 70,000 people are s- are singing in harmony "Sweet Caroline," which is associated with Team England, and then we all, including-
- KSKara Swisher
It was "Hey Jude"
- SGScott Galloway
... the English fans-
- KSKara Swisher
Was it "Hey Jude"? Not "Sweet Caroline". [laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
Well, s- "Sweet Caroline" at the beginning of the game, "Hey Jude" at the end in honor of-
- KSKara Swisher
Okay
- SGScott Galloway
... Jude Bellingham, which is, in my opinion, the, the man of the tournament, but... And then everyone, including the Team England fans, start rowing, which is-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh
- 5:11 – 11:18
Lindsey Graham Dies at 71
- KSKara Swisher
Republican Senator Lindsey Graham l- uh, died from a tear in his aorta, apparently, according to preliminary findings from the DC medical examiner. Graham passed away on Saturday at age 71. President Trump spoke to Graham hours before he died, noting he said he was tired but wanted to pass the Save America. Of course, I'm sure he did not say that. The scramble to replace Graham in the Senate in the short term and long term is underway. We're recording this before the South Carolina Governor Henry McMaster announces who he's appointing to the seat. That's happening in a few hours. Trump wants it to be Graham's sister. Uh, Nancy Mace says she's not pursuing an interim appointment, but would be remiss if she didn't look at running for the seat. Secretary, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is also reportedly fielding calls to run. They can't really use House people because the House is, it's such a thin margin if they, if they pull someone from the House. Um, uh, it was pretty shocking 'cause everyone was sort of focused on Mitch McConnell, who offered proof of life on Sunday after weeks of speculation of his whereabouts and health. McConnell released a statement and a photo where he's holding his-
- SGScott Galloway
Wasn't that proof of near death?
- KSKara Swisher
Uh, a lot of people d-don't think that photo is-- They think it's AI. I would tend to agree. Uh, I've talked to a lot of experts. Um, he said a fall led to his hospitalization. He's in rehab and won't be returning to the Senate quite yet. Uh, as you say, biology's undefeated, but there's still so much sus around this guy, like what's happening with him. Um, he's not running for re-election, and, uh, they-- I think he wants to s-stay around at least so that, uh, the, um- The Democratic governor
- SGScott Galloway
The Republicans get to appoint as opposed to the Democratic governor.
- KSKara Swisher
N- no, no, the Democratic governor has to appoint a Republican. The Democratic governor gets to appoint, it just has to be a Republican, 'cause they passed this law that now the Democratic governor might push back on and say it's uncons- he should be able to do. Um, he could, he could appoint Thomas Massie, by the way, FYI, which would be something. Um, so I don't think... You know, it's just, what a mess. I mean, obviously Lindsey Graham was not that old. 71 is not old. My-- I talked to Jeff, I had dinner, I'm in San Francisco, with Jeff last night, and he said, you know, he apparently had some chest pains and was ignoring them for a little bit, and, or had some discomfort, and this is something that just happens. It's what John Ritter died of. Um, uh-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, aortic tear
- KSKara Swisher
... it, it, certainly if he had, uh, had been diagnosed, they could have done something about it, but a lot of people, this can kill people really quickly.
- SGScott Galloway
I have a lot of thoughts here. The-- Look, the, the internet's gone crazy with conspiracy theories, so I have what technically qualifies as a conspiracy theory 'cause it's in the fringe now, 'cause social media can't make money off of it, and that is a 71-year-old male who was out of shape, traveling, and under constant stress, had a heart attack and died. I, I just don't... Uh, that's my theory here. A- and, and the larger point, and I'm gonna come back later in the show to Senator Graham when we do Wins and Fails. But the larger point is that one of the things that really curses the world right now and causes chaos, oppression, authoritarianism, is, can be reverse engineered to really old people that won't fucking leave.
- KSKara Swisher
71 old? I mean, I wouldn't necessarily-
- SGScott Galloway
Huh?
- KSKara Swisher
It is. Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
Are you ki- To fly to Ukraine and back and understand-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... TikTok? I mean, for God's sakes-
- KSKara Swisher
Okay
- SGScott Galloway
... go home.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, he didn't wanna go.
- SGScott Galloway
The average age of the, of an American is 38. The average age of our senator is 65. Watching Mitch McConnell freeze up or talking about a 71-year-old man have a heart attack as if it was clearly done by the Russians or the Iranians, this isn't a story about Mitch McConnell.
- KSKara Swisher
Right. The-- For people who don't know, one of the conspiracy theories was Russia.
- SGScott Galloway
It's a story about American political system that refuses to make room for the next generation.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yep. Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
If we got rid of tomorrow, if we decided globally anyone over the age of 70 has to announce a retirement, oh, you'd get rid of Netanyahu. You'd get rid of Putin. You'd get rid of Trump.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
You'd get rid of Biden. You'd get rid of these people on the Supreme Court that aren't even writing their own briefs anymore. They're just-
- KSKara Swisher
Right
- SGScott Galloway
... political ideologues. I work with the best faculty in the world. A third of them should be, uh, put on an ice flow.
- KSKara Swisher
So s- what, like 65 you're saying, right? 'Cause the 65 is for The New York Times, 65 is for generals. I think 60-
- SGScott Galloway
Okay. S-s-s-
- KSKara Swisher
I'm just curious. I'm curious what you're-
- SGScott Galloway
Call it 72, 70. Well, I wanna find a group of neurologists. Uh, Mitt Ro- Mitt Romney had it perfectly. The guy looks 50 years old. He looks like an Abercrombie & Fitch model, but he's about to turn 80, and he cited that by the time you're 80, key parts of your brain have shrunk by 10% or 15%. It-- We, we don't need presidents falling asleep in briefings. Do you remember... The, the same bullshit... I, I watch... I, I get served the clips 'cause they know it'll outrage me about the CNN show, I Feel Stupider with Abby Phillips. Basically, the pattern is they've figured out they have a cheat code for massive viewership. They have essentially the, the chief propagandists for the Trump administration say something just ridiculous, and then a bunch of off, off Broadway progressives go fucking insane. And they get, I think it's the highest rated show-
- 11:18 – 16:37
Mitch McConnell Conspiracy Theories
- KSKara Swisher
theories are really heavy. Like, they're somewhat heavy with Graham about whether he was killed by the Russians or poisoned or this and that. And then, um, McConnell, forget it. It's now, like, open... It's really fascinating. Do-- I'm curious if you think it's a good thing or a bad thing, like these, these, these, the memeology and those s- the, the conspiracy theories, and everyone looks at the picture and is, "Where is his thumb? Is it really an AI? Is it AI-generated?" Like, it really just, nobody believes anything. Nobody believes. And even the believable stuff is unbelievable, if that makes sense.
- SGScott Galloway
Unfortunately, we've attached a profit incentive to conspiracy theories, which feels harmless and fun, but it essentially, it attacks our institutions, that there's no one that's believable anymore, and we don't defer to our institutions. And so I, I think it, uh, there's an underlying... Because the problem with these conspiracy theories that, oh, mRNA vaccines alter your DNA, is that if you see it enough, because it's novel and the algorithm's elevated beyond its organic reach, you should have the right to say conspiracy theories. The issue is should social media companies that have a profit incentive to, to elevate it beyond its organic reach, you then normalize conspiracy theories. They then become less outrageous, and then they become self-evident And that's the problem, is that a lot of these fringe theories become normalized when they ordinarily wouldn't have because we've attached a profit incentive to, to conspiracy theories.
- KSKara Swisher
That's a really good point.
- SGScott Galloway
The broader point about Mitch McConnell into Senator Graham is that this isn't about, in these memes, it's not about mocking an aging man. Aging comes for all of us. The failure belongs to us, the people, and the institutions that keep insisting that octogenarians should be making the highest stakes decisions in the world.
- KSKara Swisher
Absolutely. Absolutely.
- SGScott Galloway
And leadership in both parties increasingly resembles the board of a company that forgot that succession planning is part of the damn job, and every CEO is told in their final responsibility that they need to leave the company stronger than they found it. And we fire CEOs who don't build a bench and announce their retirement at some point. And in politics, we've somehow decided the goal is to die with your hand on the steering wheel and take people out with you. And experience matters, wisdom matters, but so does energy, cognitive sharpness-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, it, it's a-
- SGScott Galloway
... the willingness to pass the baton
- KSKara Swisher
... it's a game here. It's a game to keep him in place, even if he's Weekend at Bernie's, right? Even if he's, like-
- SGScott Galloway
That's why we need age limits, Kara.
- KSKara Swisher
That's, that, that's right. No, I agree, but that's what's happening here because the, the, the, the numbers-- He's not gonna be able to pass the SAVE Act now because it's so tight, right? And it's just nothing's going anywhere, and that's, that's what they're doing here, is trying to, like, game the system, whether or not letting Beshear do his job or whatever. And in the House, the same thing. And, you know, it's all gaming. It's all gaming. And it doesn't matter if you have to prop up an old man. Um, but a- and you do start to believe it. I looked at that picture-
- SGScott Galloway
Hold on to power
- KSKara Swisher
... and I was like, "That looks funny. Looks like he had a facelift. They're right." Like, but then is it true or is it not true?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I think it's fake. I wanna be clear. I, I'm part of the tinfoil. I think it's fake.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay. I, I don't know. I don't-- I, I just, um, I definitely am like, "Huh, sus." You know? [chuckles] I actually, like, I literally was like, texted Harvey Levin and said, "The, the Republic is up to you to get in that hotel-- I mean, that hospital room and get us a real video of something." I mean, I, I can't believe no reporters can figure this out, and we have to rely on Scott Jennings. I agree with you.
- SGScott Galloway
Let me just ask you an honest question.
- KSKara Swisher
I, yeah. Hmm?
- SGScott Galloway
Let me ask you an, uh, just a, a question-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... that would require any semblance of logic. Given the tumult, given the doubt, given the, given the power-
- KSKara Swisher
Video
- SGScott Galloway
... if he just recorded a, not even a video, a 10-second voice memo-
- KSKara Swisher
It's gone too far. He's gotta-
- SGScott Galloway
It would-
- KSKara Swisher
... be wheeled out in front of the-
- SGScott Galloway
It would, it would solve so many of his and the Republican Party's problems-
- KSKara Swisher
But they, so they don't want it. Won't
- SGScott Galloway
... and he clearly can't even do that.
- KSKara Swisher
Right. I would agree with you. I think if they wheeled him out in front of th- or in the hospital, and he said, "I'm really sick, and I'm trying to get better," and that would solve it. But they won't do it, you're right, 'cause they can't do it. That's, that's exactly right.
- SGScott Galloway
To me, uh, uh, let me, let me just wrap up because I'm, I'm, I, I do think that if-- The world would be such a better place if Netanyahu, Trump, Ginsburg, Biden had been forced to leave at a certain point.
- 16:37 – 25:40
Graham Platner Withdraws Candidacy
- KSKara Swisher
speaking of young, trying to get a young, vibrant person in, who's officially withdrawn from the Maine Senate race following the accusation of sexual assault, among other troubling revelations from his past, which we had discussed. We did not-- There was a point where we said, "If it goes further than this, then forget it." But Democrats have July to... And that's what the allegations are. Democrats have until July 27th to name a replacement to challenge Republican Senator Susan Collins. Actually, the re- uh, uh, the Democrats' chances went up with Platner coming out 'cause he was declining. The Maine Democratic Party will hold a convention on July 25th, uh, where candidates can make their case to delegates for a nomination. Let's hear a clip we got from Axios reporter Holly, uh, Otterbein, who's been covering the race and how things stand.
- SPSpeaker
Now that Graham Platner is finally out of the race, Maine Democrats are scrambling to find a new nominee by the end of the month. A whole boatload of candidates have jumped in, about a half dozen, and most of them either ran for governor or Senate earlier this year and lost. One of my biggest takeaways from the race as it's been shaping up so far is that Graham Platner is still having an enormous influence on the race. Now, granted, nobody wants his endorsement, but a lot of them, almost all of them to a person, sound like Graham Platner. One of the biggest examples, um, that I can point to is a man named Dan Kleban. He's a brewer. He's actually centering his campaign around voting against Chuck Schumer, uh, for majority leader, a promise to do that. So I think that this shows that the Maine Democratic candidates have really internalized that the Democratic base is furious. They're angry at the economy, they're angry at Trump, they're angry at their party, and that that's what this Platner mania was all about, and that in order to win, that's what they've gotta replicate.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, [chuckles] that's very smart. Um, what do you... W- uh, obviously we were wrong about Graham Platner. We were, we-- Basically, Scott and I said that the Ma- the Maine voters should decide this, but if more came out, it would be a real problem. That's exactly what happened. In this scenario, h- what, what... It matters because it is about control of the Senate, and they have a very good chance of grabbing his seat if they do it right.
- SGScott Galloway
Look, I don't As Democrats do, we're more interested in self-flagellation than actually figuring out how to take control of the Senate. And I would argue, I would argue the Democrats largely got it right here. When he had a Totenkopf tattoo came to light, as a Jew, I found that really troubling. Having said that, a guy in the military, dodging IEDs, had a-- made a mistake, and I saw no pattern of anti-Semitism. I wasn't willing to disqualify him and say he's an anti-Semite because I saw, I saw an errant mistake. I didn't see a pattern. Then a woman said he was physical with her. Very disturbing. She, in the middle of a campaign, was a Republican operative. All right, I think it was fair to say there's an asterisk around those, that accusation. When I was on holiday last week and I heard about this, this additional accusation of rape, I immediately went to YouTube and watched it, and within about five seconds, I'm like, "She's telling the truth. He needs to drop out immediately." I mean, it was just... Quite frankly, it was just-- And he did. Or he-- Or let me put it this way. He's still trying to hold onto his power. Basically, Democrats now are saying, "How do we find Graham Platner minus the rape part?" They're all trying to find a rough, you know, like a, a, you know, an oyster brewer, you know, whatever you want to call it.
- KSKara Swisher
One of them's a logger. I think one's a logger, one's a brewer. Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... tatted up, that does, you know, that drinks Pabst Blue Ribbon or whatever. But now what we're doing is the following. We're, instead of fo- instead of focusing our energy on how we actually hold ourselves to a higher standard and will exit and off-ramp people like this... Again, I'll go back to my favorite show on CNN. Scott Jennings said, they asked him, "Do you think Platner should resign from the race?" And he said, "If there's corroborating evidence around this type of activity, sure, he should resign." Okay. The ultimate corroboration in our society around situations that have dramatic gray areas, context, nuance, you weren't there, is the following. We put them in front of 12 people from different backgrounds, different viewpoints. We let the prosecution have input into the wit- to the jurors. We have the defense. The president of the United States was found civilly liable for sexual abuse. So the notion that Democrats are spending more energy with this weird self-examination as opposed to focusing their energy on how we will actually ticket people who run a yellow light versus the double murder homicide of plowing through stop signs that is the Republican Party-
- KSKara Swisher
Absolutely. Yes, including Ken Paxton
- SGScott Galloway
... I find comical.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay, so what do they do here? What-- It looks like they're gonna pick one of these, a logger or a brewer or whoever. They're gonna get one of these people. What is the move here from, from win-
- SGScott Galloway
Troy Jackson. I, I, I'm, uh... In a weird way, all this, all this ridiculousness around holding onto the land of the dead with, uh, McConnell and the fact that it's not unusual for a 71-year-old man who's out of shape to drop dead, that's, that happens, folks, I think is gonna help us. I'm more optimistic about the seat, because I think they're gonna find somebody who has a lot of chest hair, who says the right things, who can tap into this movement, hopefully Platner. Platner, Platner started or tapped into this movement. I actually think he might be powerful on the campaign trail for the new person or whoever that is.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-mm. Mm-mm.
- SGScott Galloway
You think just keep him out?
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, no, keep him out. I mean, especially, and including his advisors. Did you see that interview with the two Democrats?
- SGScott Galloway
Oh my God, was that cringe.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh my God. They're going out now.
- SGScott Galloway
With, what's that voice called with a effect of voice?
- KSKara Swisher
Fry. Vocal fry. Vocal fry.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh my God. I'm like, Jesus, is this the Re- Is this the Democratic Party? At the first-- When I-- And so when I saw those two, I'm like, "Oh my God, we're fucked. That's who's running the Democratic Party now?"
- KSKara Swisher
It was just like, oh my, how... They just decided on this guy and didn't do any vetting. That looks like-- And any vetting whatsoever. I mean, this guy seems to have just... Uh, you know, at one point, a friend of mine, Lulu Garcia-Navarro, had interviewed him for The New York Times, and he go-- she goes, "Is there anything else?" And he goes, "No." Like [laughs] and of course, there was lots else. Like, and that was pre the, the second part, which was a lot of people saying he was, you know, a pig. And then it, then it, then there was a third part. This guy's-
- SGScott Galloway
I, I, you're right
- KSKara Swisher
... really needs some help.
- SGScott Galloway
He should just exit the stage.
- KSKara Swisher
Exit the stage.
- SGScott Galloway
He should just go away right now.
- KSKara Swisher
And get some help.
- SGScott Galloway
I think the aging, quite frankly, is gonna shine a light on Susan Collins, who is 76, and quite frankly, looks 86.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
It, it, it, I mean, enough already.
- KSKara Swisher
Enough al- enough already.
- SGScott Galloway
They need-- Democrats, this is a layup.
- 25:40 – 35:55
Apple Sues OpenAI
- KSKara Swisher
accusing company of stealing trade secrets to develop its own hardware. The lawsuit filed last Friday claims OpenAI asked job candidates from Apple to share details about secret projects and to bring device components and prototypes to interviews. OpenAI is denying the accusations, saying, "We have no interest in other companies' trade secrets. Remain focused on building innovative technology that empowers people everywhere." Apple is asking for a jury trial and demanding OpenAI destroy proprietary material and pay damages. Uh, this is something else. This is right in Steve Jobs' playbook, similar when Apple was filing suits against Android companies. Um, it'll be really interesting. Also, I'm gonna go through the whole thing. OpenAI's number two executive, uh, its Fidji Simo, is gonna have a big role when the company went public, just stepped down. She's leaving for health reasons. Uh, Elon, of course, is loving this. He posted about Sam Altman on X. He takes scamming to a whole new level. He calls him Scam Altman, to which Sam replied, "Homeboy, you're the one selling public market investors on short-term space data centers." Elon then responded, "After stealing an open source AI charity, then stole all of Apple's phone technology." Wow. And by the way, SpaceX shares are really dropping below, almost below their IPO price. So what a fucking mess. Let's, let's dig into it, Scott. Any of these many things that are happening here.
- SGScott Galloway
OpenAI's had... I mean, the hits keep on coming, and not good hits.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, it's a hot mess. It's a hot mess of a company.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, they're being sued every which way but loose. They've had, I think their head of safety just resigned.
- KSKara Swisher
They did, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, they've shelved their IPO because it's clear the money furnace m-mean, it, I, I feel, and I'm writing a post on this, [chuckles] for the first time, I'm like, "Okay, this is '99." And if you remember '99, it was first there was B2C went. We knew the technology was gonna survive, but there wasn't enough demand on the front end. So the pets.com and the Amazon got, got, got, got cleared out first, or went down 90%. And they're like, "But wait, we believe in the technology, so it must be about B2B." And then when that didn't work, we went to the infrastructure place. OpenAI and Anthropic have both, it looks like, delayed their IPOs. All of a sudden, what looked like a supply crisis, remember just a few weeks ago we were talking about there aren't enough data centers, there's not enough energy? All of the front end creating the demand, the majority of it has flipped to supply 'cause they weren't creating enough demand on the front end. All of a sudden, all of a sudden, xAI and Meta have said, "Oh wait, we don't have the demand we thought on the front end."
- KSKara Swisher
So we'll sell our, our compute. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
We're gonna flip to supply. So I think the cracks are really beginning to emerge.
- KSKara Swisher
'Cause then the supply will go down. And also, then you have Alex Karp and others, like M-Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella saying, "Hey, these AI companies are stealing your business. They're analyzing. Handing it over to them lets them become competitors." That, that's a really interesting new wrinkle too, is like, they're gonna steal your things. Of course, people who have stole things are telling you they're gonna steal your things. Um, so yeah, I agree with you, is something is about to, like, break, I feel. Don't you? I mean, it just feels, like, very precarious, is what I would use the expression.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, this is... I feel like we're in Q3, Q4 of '99 right now, and just to get back to the case, Tan is accused of coaching employees on how to circumvent Apple's data security policies and encouraging them to bring confidential, um-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... parts to interviews.
- KSKara Swisher
So-
- SGScott Galloway
And-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... and engineer-
- KSKara Swisher
If they have the goods on that, that's really bad
- SGScott Galloway
Oh my God. An engineer, Cheng Liu, allegedly kept his Apple laptop and exploited a bug to download files, texting-
- KSKara Swisher
And did it LOL
- SGScott Galloway
... "LOLL so funny." And Apple stated that OpenAI has had to take unlawful shortcuts while under mounting pressure to deliver its first com-commercial hardware product. So if this was one of the AI players going after the other, but when Apple goes after you, and not only that, this is gonna get a lot of attention, 'cause quite frankly, this is gonna snare, the strafe is gonna hit Jony Ive, who is a bit of a-
- KSKara Swisher
Right
- SGScott Galloway
... iconic legend there.
- KSKara Swisher
But explain. People, he, he, he's, he was mounting a device company with OpenAI that then had its own accusations. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
He, he started a device company. It was acquired by OpenAI for six and a half, $7 billion, the majority of which I think will be written off. I think that will-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... prove in terms of write-offs. And by-- I think Jony Ive is a genius and, and, uh, uh, like, an icon and deserves all his acolytes. That will go down as arguably w-the worst acquisition of the last few years, 'cause I think they're gonna have to write off the entire thing. And the interesting thing will be what the legal remedies will be, 'cause it'll take months or years, depending on how quick OpenAI is to settle However, it's gonna have an immediate impact on the business. The device is expected to be unveiled this year. This gives them the excuse, Kara, and this is my prediction for ne- for later in the week-
- KSKara Swisher
To dumping it
- SGScott Galloway
... the device is never gonna happen.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, same thing with their browser-
- SGScott Galloway
And-
- 35:55 – 57:14
California AG on Paramount-WBD Lawsuit
- KSKara Swisher
Attorney General Rob Bonta, along with attorneys general, I think that's right, from 11 other states, a dozen, just filed a lawsuit to block Paramount's 110, uh- Uh, billion-dollar merger with Warner Brothers Discovery. The suit alleges the merger will help reduce competition, creating higher prices, less content, and hurt movie theater cable distributors. Quite a narrow lawsuit. Bonta and his fellow AGs are asking Paramount and Warner not to close the deal while the case moves through the courts. So one couple things we wanna talk about here. It's very narrow. From what I understand, talking to people, um, there's, um, there's, there's a lot of, um, uh, feeling at Paramount. They, I don't think they thought it was gonna be a dozen of these things. I thought they, it w- I think the, the negotiations didn't go very well between Bonta and Paramount. They, there was this weird threatening to leave California, which I think is nonsense. Um, so, uh, so just give me your quick thoughts before I get out of here and talk to California Attorney General Rob Bonta about it.
- SGScott Galloway
I'm mixed here, Kara, 'cause I can see why when Republicans in the Trump administration are happy to weaponize the courts and the legal system to intimidate the press, I, I kind of applaud AGs and DAs in blue states pushing back and say, "All right, girlfriend, two can play at this game." Because quite frankly, I don't think there's a legal basis to, to, to claim that it's monopoly power. I think on a pure economic competitive level, when you're facing, when you're facing YouTube and these different platforms, I don't think it's a monopoly, so but at the same time, what's good for the goose, right? I would just go through market share and say in terms of viewership time, you know, YouTube's at 12%, Netflix is at nine, the combined... I, I just fail to see w- how this triggers any sort of legal review. What is the legal justification for blocking this merger?
- KSKara Swisher
That it creates, like-
- SGScott Galloway
Kind of just comes down to that
- KSKara Swisher
... it, that it, it becomes 86% of the market is shared by four companies only versus six to seven or whatever. It, it creates, you know, that's, th- th- this is the idea that it's, creates a smaller group of buyers, a smaller group of distributors, and, um, it's, that's essentially it. And then it raise, and then theater owners will have to raise the prices. A lot of actors are kind of upset. Lo- I think he has to do this. I think you're right, they have to show a little teeth here.
- SGScott Galloway
The argument on the ground, and I believe this, I believe that tens of thousands of creative jobs are gonna go away. I think there's gonna be a scream let out by the creative community that they don't even know what happened to them if this merger goes through because I think the only way to justify a $112 billion acquisition price is to find, quote-unquote, "efficiencies" through AI. And they're gonna move harder at this than anyone, despite their commitment to produce more movies or what have you. The problem is, is that the argument that there's too much concentration is like, well, folks, we're trying to compete with the people you say are too powerful, and that if you don't let us merge, all you're do is-- all you're doing is strengthening numbers one, two, and three.
- KSKara Swisher
Right. Yep. I think that's what I assume. I just got a note from someone at Paramount. It said, "It's a silly and laughable market definition." [laughs] That's what, that's their answer, I guess. Uh, I don't-
- SGScott Galloway
I don't, I don't think-- I think this gets swatted away, but at the same time, if you, there's such a huge ticking fee of like a half a billion dollars a month-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, well, starting September 30th
- SGScott Galloway
... if this thing continues to go on-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... that they have leverage.
- KSKara Swisher
Although I think that's a mouthful amount
- SGScott Galloway
... that they may be able, they may be able to extract something.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, especially if Lon- if Britain also does it. It'll definitely slow them down. Uh, I, I think it's gonna close. I just, I, I'm not sure what... You know, we'll see where it goes. But they definitely have, they've dirtied up Paramount quite a bit with actors, talent, and I think the general public, and I haven't, I don't think the CBS stuff has helped. I think it's a minor part of it, but it's gotten an outsized attention. Um, and I think they really, uh, I, I think they may, uh, th- and having the dinner with Trump thing wasn't a good look, you know, bringing reporters there. I've told them this. Um, but we'll see. We'll see where it goes, and we'll see what Bonta says, so I'll talk to him now. I'll also note I extended an offer for an interview with Paramount's counsel. California Attorney General Rob Bonta is with me now. He's in the middle of quite a busy day, Rob. How's it going?
- RBRob Bonta
[laughs] A good busy day. Uh, it's going well. We, we filed our lawsuit today, and, uh, we're excited.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, so nice backdrop. You did it in front of the Hollywood sign. Can you t- I just wanna know how you thought.
- RBRob Bonta
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
It's very well coordinated online. You've got a lot of, all the other AGs, you've got a number of senators, et cetera, uh, sort of talking it up. Talk a little bit about why, how, why you are positioning it.
- RBRob Bonta
Yeah, I mean, we, we have lined up and synchronized the d- different attorneys general to talk about the lawsuit that we're collectively bringing. There's, there's 12 of us in California, plus 11 others. Some of the other statements that you're seeing from, you know, Senator Murphy, Senator Warren, that's just organic. Uh, we, uh, we, we haven't spoken to them. They, they're watching this issue, and they have a viewpoint, and they're expressing it, and we appreciate the support that they're showing. Uh, we're focused on the law and the facts here, and this proposed merger between, uh, Paramount and Warner Brothers violates Section 7 of the Clayton Act. And we think that the market concentration in the three markets that we've named, um, if, uh, they're, it's, um, presumably-
- KSKara Swisher
Distribution
- RBRob Bonta
... unlawful.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yeah
- RBRob Bonta
And, and, and, yeah, right. Yeah, dis- distribution of, uh, wide release film, uh, films and, and also of blockbusters and then, um, licensing of cable channels. So we think we got th- three, three clear markets where they violate the law.
- KSKara Swisher
So let's talk about the goals here 'cause it's much narrower. You could've gone a lot of different directions here, uh, in this, in this lawsuit, and it's, it's quite narrow, actually. But, um, w- what do you-
- RBRob Bonta
Yeah
- KSKara Swisher
... hope to get out of this lawsuit, and how did it come to this? What's the goal?
- RBRob Bonta
The goal, based on the lawsuit, is to block the merger. If there is some sort of discussion that, that happens, and, you know, w- we're, we're not inviting it or shutting the door on it, it's up to Paramount or Warner Brothers whether they want it. We, we will always engage in good faith. We will listen. But we've expressed our concerns very clearly, chapter and verse, in, you know, nearly 40-page complaint, which talks about the markets and talks about the, the impacts of the market concentration and how audiences will be harmed and workers will be harmed and quality will erode and output will decline. And we s- think we set it for us, and if they have, uh, something that they wanna recommend or suggest to address our concerns, we will listen. But right now, uh, we w- we're asking to block the merger. We're asking them to agree To not close the merger, consummate the merger while we're in litigation. If they don't agree, we're gonna file a temporary restraining order, and we think we'll get it.
- KSKara Swisher
You haven't done that yet for people to understand. If they don't agree to slow it down, correct? Is that correct?
- RBRob Bonta
Correct.
- 57:14 – 1:10:34
Wins and Fails
- KSKara Swisher
and Fails. You go first.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I'll speak more about this, but when I was in Miami and at the Hard Rock Stadium watching Team England play Norway, and Norwegian fans started singing with the English fans "Sweet Caroline," and then English fans started doing that rowing motion, it just gave me so much hope I was so desperate for. I just... It-- when you hear 70,000 people who come together like kids who love each other, but their parents have been arguing, it just, that collective humanity and the athleticism, I really do believe that the World Cup has tapped into this need to remind each other that we have more that we share than differences. I just, that was such a, um... You know, I've been to-- I don't care about sports, and then every four years I get really into it 'cause my kids are into it. I took my son to Moscow and St. Petersburg eight years ago. We went to Qatar four years ago. This is by far the best 'cause this is, this is the encapsulation of something wonderful, and that wonderful thing is that people around the world feel, especially in the West and in democracies, feel a sense of camaraderie and comity of man. And our leaders have been getting in the way of that, and they've been dividing us, and we're actually not that divided. We're being divided. And that game just reminded me of it, and it-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... it just, it, you know-
- KSKara Swisher
It is a contrast to the, like, the political stuff, 'cause the minute Lindsey Graham dies, uh, Trump was, like, taking advantage of it. Like, so gross. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's a, it's a, it's a, such a contrast to-
- SGScott Galloway
Well, you know what's made this World Cup great, quite frankly?
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Is none of these leaders are any f- where fucking near it.
- KSKara Swisher
That's right.
- SGScott Galloway
Thank you for staying out of it.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Thank you for staying out of it.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Just don't, don't poison it. And in the moment that Trump did enter it, [laughs] it kind of fucked everything up for the American team, in my opinion. Anyways, that's my win. My fail is a little bit-- I, I've thought a lot about this, and I really wanna get your viewpoint, including if it's pushback. When I was at UCLA, I didn't think I knew a gay person, and what I found out, I was at UCLA at a pivotal time for gay rights or society as it relates to how it, how it feels about a gay community, and that is, within two years of graduating, I found out not only did I know gay people, but my roommates, my best friend, and several of my fraternity brothers were gay. And the reality was, from 1982 to 1987 at UCLA and in America, you were not allowed to be gay. You just... And those of us who are heterosexual never really, and still don't, understand the, uh, the, the shame that America was putting on gay people, and I know you felt that then.
- KSKara Swisher
I definitely did, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And, and can relate to this. And then the way we traded, treated people who got this, uh, plague, the shame, the shameful way that we treated this community when they were at their-
- KSKara Swisher
Worst
- SGScott Galloway
... you know, these young men, mostly young men, who were at their most vulnerable. And so I empathize with, with men, and I c- haven't walked in those shoes, that were closeted. But the reality is, I think Senator Graham deserves to be lauded for his service, his ability to get deals done. He was well-liked. But I don't think his legacy is gonna be kind.
- KSKara Swisher
No, I don't either.
- SGScott Galloway
And, and this is where I go with this, and I, and I And I'm really, like reticent to talk about this way 'cause I do believe you need to err on the side of positive and grace when someone passes, but my belief is that Senator Graham's, uh, hypocrisy will be his legacy, and his hypocrisy isn't about being gay. It's quietly benefiting from the courage of people who risked everything to secure-
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, indeed
- SGScott Galloway
... equal rights-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... and then turning around and arguing those rights should be denied to others-
- KSKara Swisher
Yep
- SGScott Galloway
... which he consistently did-
- KSKara Swisher
And then affiliating with people who were pulling it, uh, affiliating with people who were pulling those rights
- SGScott Galloway
And you, and you can relate to this because you are one of the people here. Every freedom the LGBTQ community enjoys today, and that Senator Graham enjoyed, was because someone else paid the price.
- KSKara Swisher
I would agree.
- SGScott Galloway
People lost jobs-
Episode duration: 1:10:35
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