Nvidia Earnings Show AI Bubble Isn’t Popping… Yet | Pivot

Scott Galloway 0:00 Even if you agree AI is as I do, it's gonna be huge and pay all sorts of dividends and build great companies, if NVIDIA sneezes, the world gets frickin' stage IV or walking pneumonia.

Kara Swisher 0:16 (instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway 0:24 And I'm Scott Galloway.

Kara Swisher 0:25 How are you doing, Scott? Are you rested and back in London?

Scott Galloway 0:28 Yeah, I'm back in London. I wouldn't describe myself as rested, but I feel pretty good. How are you?

Kara Swisher 0:33 Good. I took one more trip to Las Vegas, but now I'm back.

Scott Galloway 0:35 Are you shitting me?

Kara Swisher 0:36 No, I'm not shitting you. Don't talk to me.

Scott Galloway 0:38 Wait, hold on.

Kara Swisher 0:38 You were in London.

Scott Galloway 0:39 Back from D.C. to Vegas?

Kara Swisher 0:40 Yeah, but now I'm back. I'm back for... Until March. I'm not traveling until March, really, except for the holidays.

Scott Galloway 0:46 It worr- it worries me how much you travel, travel.

Kara Swisher 0:49 Yes, I know. I know. I know it does. I like that you worry about me. We've got a lot to get to today, including the Meta monopoly verdict, which sort of got lost in the sauce, and Trump signing... With all these news, and Trump signing the bill to release the Epstein files. But first, this is... NVIDIA's shares are up around 3% at time of taping after beating expectations

Kara Swisher 1:06 for the third quarter earnings. The AI chipmaker reported a record $57 billion in revenue and a big, a big chunk from one company. I, I... It's gotta be Meta. And a 65% jump in profits. Uh, CEO Jensen Huang addressed concerns about an AI bubble, saying, "From our vantage point, we're seeing something very different." Um, Sundar Pichai kind of alluded to it, about bubble fears. Uh, and in new partnerships, NVIDIA and Microsoft are pouring money into Anthropic, raising the AI startup's valuation to 350 billion. Microsoft will invest 5 billion while NVIDIA will invest 10 billion. Again, not a big amount of money for these people. Um, and it's a huge valuation and, also, Elon Musk is raising it an enormous val- valuation. So, talk a little bit about these results 'cause, uh, Michael Burry got killed, right? The, the short sellers got killed on this thing.

Scott Galloway 1:55 Well, the entire, literally, the entire economy is, has a huge sigh of relief because the narrative had, had shifted just in a few weeks from AI boom to AI bubble, and this popped the AI bubble narrative, uh, at least for the time being. Revenue came in at 57 versus 55, and those were very aggressive expectations. Their data center revenue came in at 51.2 versus expected 49.3. Their adjusted earnings or diluted earnings per share came in at 130 versus expectations of one- So basically, it was a beat on very aggressive expectations, and they also guided up. They're now saying their Q4 revenue guidance is 65 versus 62 billion, up 5%. And also, what's really impre- I think the most impressive thing is they're, they've taken the guidance on their margins up to 75% from 74.6, 74.6. I would have thought they'd be coming under some pricing pressure.

Kara Swisher 2:54 Margin compression, right.

Scott Galloway 2:54 Yeah, and margin compression.

Kara Swisher 2:56 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 2:56 And then their sales growth accelerated to 63%, which is enormous, but it broke six, a six-quarter streak of deceleration of sales growth. And then to your point, everything got lifted. Tesla was up one and a half percent, Microsoft one, Meta one, Amazon 1.6, and Alphabet two.

Kara Swisher 3:14 They've been declining. Let's be clear for people. They had been-

Scott Galloway 3:16 Yeah, but not, not really a lot. Uh-

Kara Swisher 3:19 Well, Oracle is really down. Like, it lost all its gains, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 3:24 The economy, and I hate this about our economy right now, and to a certain extent, the Trump administration's cloud cover is really being propped up by these 10 companies. And so the fact that... It, it just, the narrative, uh, was not supported here, and the market was looking... There's just no getting around it. The market seemed to be really grasping for evidence that the AI bubble narrative was... Had some veracity to it, and they didn't get it in this earnings call. They just didn't get it.

Kara Swisher 3:54 I, I still am nervous about... I've been reading up a lot. Uh, you know, as you know, you introduced Andrew Ross Sorkin for his book and some others, and there's some very persuasive... Bill Cohen wrote a very persuasive piece about possible bust coming, you know. And as you said-

Scott Galloway 4:07 Oh, yeah.

Kara Swisher 4:07 ... it can run up before the bust, right? And, and these sort of echoes of this issue. Uh, you know, it's interesting 'cause they were all at this NBS event at the White House, um, uh, and one of the things... And then there was an ensuing Saudi whatever afterwards, like, uh... And, and to me, I feel like, I mean, if Jensen Huang was any closer to Trump, he'd be on the other side of him, right? So they're, they have this sort of, um, grip together that they have to have, right? This company, this particular company, um, has to have, and he's certainly playing it. You know, he's, you know, he's using every card in the book to do this. Um, do you... What is your worry? So we talked about this on the tour, of this worry of it being particularly this company, um, and, and the companies around it, which are all benefiting from it. Do you still have a worry about it, or is this pushed off to another day? Because it still is... The numbers still don't... Math doesn't math here eventually at some point.

Scott Galloway 5:08 My worry is the following, that the definition of a robust economy is that no one company can take it down.

Kara Swisher 5:16 Broad, a broad-based.

Scott Galloway 5:18 If McDonald's... The fast food industry is a robust industry. If the biggest player, McDonald's, went out of business tomorrow, you would still be able to find cheap calories-

Kara Swisher 5:28 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 5:28 ... at a variety of places, and the economy would not be taken down.

Kara Swisher 5:32 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 5:32 JP Morgan is probably so big now. JP Morgan is now worth more than the 10 biggest banks in Europe combined. And if Jamie Dimon called president Trump or Bissen and said, "Oh God, you're not gonna believe this story, guys. There is some rogue trader, and somehow we missed it in compliance, and he figured out a way to lever it all up, and we're $110 billion down, and I need a bailout." If he were to ever make that call, and I don't... I think it's unlikely because I think since Sarbanes-Oxley and stress testing, I think that they did a really good job post-2008 of creating a sort of a Goldilocks-... compliance structure, one of the famous last words that's gonna be, something's gonna happen tomorrow, where there's enough, they allow them enough leverage such that they can continue to grow the economy and loan out mo- more money than they take in, while constantly stress testing for a black swan event. But you can never... But, but the bottom line is JP, if, if, if Jamie Dimon were to make that call, Trump would have no choice (laughs) but to bail them out. 'Cause if JP Morgan goes down, the domino effect would be terrible here. So you could argue that the banking, the banking industry is not robust. Our economy right now is riding on a small number of companies based on the expectations that AI cont- will be bigger than GPS or the internet. And the r- the thing that worries me is that every one of the companies we talk about has been down 50 to 70% or more in a 12-month period in the last five or seven years. They just have hiccups. And the problem is these companies now m- uh, command such an enormous part-

Kara Swisher 7:05 Right.

Scott Galloway 7:05 ... of the S&P-

Kara Swisher 7:06 Which was very similar to the tw- 1929 crash, yeah.

Scott Galloway 7:09 Dot-com. And in addition, as a percentage of, as a, as p- historical PE averages or the Buffett test, they just seem so expensive. And where we are is, if just through the natural cycle, even if you agree AI, as I do, is gonna be huge and pay all sorts of dividends and build great companies, if NVIDIA sneezes, the world gets frickin' stage four walking pneumonia. It doesn't catch a cold. Because unfortunately, our demographics have become less robust, and that is now the top 10% represent 50% of spending. And the bad news about that is that if a middle class household's confidence goes down or their income goes down, their spending goes down, but so much of their spending is things they have to spend money on, food, housing-

Kara Swisher 7:58 Right. Right.

Scott Galloway 7:58 ... that it affects the economy. But if the top 10% all of a sudden get a chill because their stock portfolio's off 40%-

Kara Swisher 8:07 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 8:07 ... they can take their discretionary spend down-

Kara Swisher 8:09 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 8:09 ... 50%. So I-

Kara Swisher 8:11 Right, not just that or out of the stock market. Like, I have stock holdings, and I thought, "I'm gonna..." There seemed to be... It's the, uh, it's this sort of vague worry, I guess. And the, the new partnerships of them pouring money into each of these companies, it still feels like they're all popping each-

Scott Galloway 8:25 Up to, like, '99 circular bullshit.

Kara Swisher 8:27 Yes, exactly. I was like-

Scott Galloway 8:29 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 8:29 ... "What is happening here?" And I, I wish I, uh, you know, we should bring Bill Cohn on to explain it to us. But th- th- these fundings seem, some- they're just using the money they get to get other money to keep the valuations going.

Scott Galloway 8:40 Yeah, it's sleight of hand. I'll invest this money in you, but you-

Kara Swisher 8:43 It, that's what it feels like.

Scott Galloway 8:43 But you gotta spend it all on me.

Kara Swisher 8:45 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 8:45 It's circular deals.

Kara Swisher 8:46 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 8:47 Yeah, it's not. They're all, they're all in club deals.

Kara Swisher 8:49 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 8:49 We did, in the late '90s, I'm not exaggerating, someone would call me a s- uh, another, another... I, I was starting-

Kara Swisher 8:55 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 8:55 ... internet companies.

Kara Swisher 8:56 Right.

Scott Galloway 8:56 And a bunch of us used to call each other and say, "I'm doing a round. Will you put in 50 or 100 grand?"

Kara Swisher 8:59 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 9:00 And the expectation was you'd put 50 (laughs) or 100 grand back into their next round.

Kara Swisher 9:03 Right, right.

Scott Galloway 9:04 And the problem is we all kind of woke up and realized we were buying each other's products, and when, so when, when one of us went down, it just took all of us down.

Kara Swisher 9:13 Yeah. That's my, that's my memory.

Scott Galloway 9:14 So there was like... It works on the way up. It's like, it's like borrowing, it's like buying stocks on margin.

Kara Swisher 9:19 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 9:19 It's fantastic as long as things continue to go up. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 9:22 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 9:22 It's especially not fantastic when things, uh, start to go down. But I'm, uh, the unwind here is pretty obvious.

Kara Swisher 9:30 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 9:30 Big traditional company. We're scaling back our AI investment. We're-

Kara Swisher 9:33 Yeah, as you said.

Scott Galloway 9:34 We're reducing our site licenses in Op- in OpenAI and Anthropic. NVIDIA reports a down quarter, and you see-

Kara Swisher 9:43 Yeah, it go-

Scott Galloway 9:43 I mean-

Kara Swisher 9:44 Yeah. Let's keep us, keep that in mind. But-

Scott Galloway 9:46 You see an enormous drawdown.

Kara Swisher 9:48 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 9:48 And then a small number of people controlling a disproportionate amount of the economy substantially check back their spending, and boom, we are in a recession.

Kara Swisher 9:56 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 9:56 Uh, like overnight. And it could, the, the fear is does it create panic selling?

Kara Swisher 10:01 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 10:02 So, uh, look, it, it's coming. We just don't know when.

Kara Swisher 10:06 Yeah. Well, it's coming. Yeah. And of course they were all at that dinner, the MBS dinner to, like, it was all tech people. I mean, it was mostly tech people. Elon, of course, was back.

Scott Galloway 10:14 Wow, that made a lot of news, didn't it?

Kara Swisher 10:16 I, yeah, I did. Let, that, we'll get to that in a minute. But, uh, very quickly, M- Meta scored, this is something that didn't get as much attention, a major victory in

Kara Swisher 10:23 court.

Scott Galloway 10:23 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 10:23 Uh, with a federal judge ruling the company didn't break antitrust laws when it bought Instagram and WhatsApp. As I said back in April, this was a weak trial, um, which I, I thought it was, uh, and clearly the judge agreed because he listens to me. No, I'm not, I'm kidding. I just thought this was a silly trial. The judge, uh, and I, and the judge said the government failed to prove Meta's currently a monopoly, noting that TikTok is now Meta's fiercest rival. The case dates back to 2020 when the FTC accused Meta of using buy or bury strategy to crush competition. These big antitrust suits have been mixed bags so far. Google lost the search and advertising cases, uh, though it didn't have to do anything. It didn't have to spin off Chrome.

Scott Galloway 11:00 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 11:00 The Amazon and Apple trials are still a few years away, so it'll be a while before we know how those shake out. I would say Apple and Amazon are much more monopolistic than any of these others. Um, and we're g- uh, you know, uh, but the thing is, is it gonna cause Meta to make a ton of acquisitions? And just remember before the trial began, Mark Zuckerberg visited the White House, prostrated himself, and tried to lobby for a sent- settlement. He didn't need to do that. Nice job, Mark, for, uh, uh, for, for s- uh, prostrating yourself. But you didn't need to. The case was solid, like I, I thought it was at the time. And you know I'm never on their side, but it was very clear there was competition.

Scott Galloway 11:36 The gate on consolidation has traditionally been that economists at the FTC and the DOJ said there's gonna be too much concentration of power, which will give you too much pricing power, which will result in a transfer of money from consumers to the shareholders of that monopoly. And monopolies themselves aren't illegal. It's monopoly power and monopoly abuse. So occasionally when scale makes sense, they say, "Fine, you can have a monopoly on cell service or the utility, but we're gonna regulate you to make sure you don't abuse that monopoly power." What the, you have right now is there is no gate.The FTC and the DOJ essentially have said it's a free-for-all, as far as I can tell. Jonathan Kantro would disagree with me and say there's still people doing the work. But as far as I can tell, or the CEOs I talk to, they are sharpening their pencils, one, because they have very fully valued stock, which is like having a pre-loaded credit card that you can go out and go shopping for, right? So, all of a sudden, everything in the eyes of Palantir is 90% off 'cause their stock's up tenfold. So if they do an acquisition for stock, it costs them a tenth of what it used to cost them. So investment banking, M&A, which had been in a deep freeze for several years, is now just booming. If I, I saw Terry Kouacs at a party the other night. He's in M&A. And I just knew, I go, "I bet your business is amazing." He's like, "Better than ever." Anyone in M&A right now is turning away calls unless it's an enormous fee because, A, companies have cash and stock to go shopping with, and B, they're not worried about antitrust. What's interesting is what has somewhat replaced the gating factor of FTC or DOJ review based on monopoly power, has been replaced by this gating power of cronyism and oligarchy, whereas, like, I don't think Netflix can potentially, or could potentially get a deal through to acquire Warner Brothers' assets-

Kara Swisher 13:29 We're gonna talk about that in a minute.

Scott Galloway 13:30 ... because Trump has decided he does-

Kara Swisher 13:31 Yeah, like hold-

Scott Galloway 13:31 ... think Reed Hastings is a Democrat.

Kara Swisher 13:33 Yeah. Let's hold that, 'cause we're gonna talk about that in a minute. But this is, this case was weak. There, there's competition in Mark Zuckerberg's world.

Scott Galloway 13:40 Well-

Kara Swisher 13:40 Correct? I mean ...

Scott Galloway 13:41 Well, some data. Since the year Meta acquired WhatsApp, YouTube active users have doubled, TikTok went from not existing to having 1.6 billion, LinkedIn users increased by roughly 4X, Snapchat users increased by more than 8X, and Meta's total daily active users increased by roughly, um, 4X. Now, I still believe these companies are too dominant. So for example, with Meta, three and a half billion people, or 43% of the world's population, use a Meta product daily. Out of the eight, out of the top eight most used social media platforms globally, Meta owns four of them, and Meta garners 21% of all digital ad spend, more than any other social media company and-

Kara Swisher 14:21 It's the ad thing that I do think. That's the one. That's a case that's coming.

Scott Galloway 14:26 Right. And, and I would argue that there's evidence of monopoly abuse here by virtue of the fact that they don't ever, um, feel, feel compelled. I would argue that the, the, the margin power and the monopoly power gets, translates into what I call non-economic costs. And that is, they can put out content that results in teen girls cutting themselves, and they don't feel the onus to do anything. I think the rents that Meta is charging on parents around the world has accelerated dramatically, and is more indicative of a company that's a monopoly-

Kara Swisher 14:59 That's a very good point.

Scott Galloway 14:59 ... and doesn't need to respond-

Kara Swisher 15:01 To anything.

Scott Galloway 15:01 ... to concerns of anybody or anything.

Kara Swisher 15:04 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 15:04 I, I just, it's like, "Oh."

Kara Swisher 15:05 You're, that is a, that is the cost. That, that-

Scott Galloway 15:07 All right.

Kara Swisher 15:07 ... is, that's where the real action should happen. Not here, unfortunately. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump signs the Epstein files bill and takes a v-, unearned victory lap. (instrumental music plays)

Scott Galloway 15:20 Support for the show comes from Vanguard. The lineup includes over 80 bond funds. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk about bonds for a moment. Capturing value in fixed income is not easy. Bond markets can be massive, murky, and let's be real, a lot of firms throw a couple flashy funds your way and call it a day. But not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. They're actively managed by a 200-person global squad of sector specialists, analysts, and traders. Lots of firms love to highlight their star portfolio managers, like it's all about that one brilliant mind making the magic happen. Vanguard's philosophy is a little different. They believe the best active strategies should be shared across the team. That way, every client benefits from the collective brain power, not just one individual take. So, if you're looking to give your clients consistent results year in and year out, go see the record for yourself at vanguard.com/audio. That's vanguard.com/audio. All investing is subject to risk. Vanguard Marketing Corporation, distributor. (instrumental music plays)

Kara Swisher 16:17 Scott, we're back. President Trump has signed the bill ordering the Justice Department to release the files on Jeffrey

Kara Swisher 16:22 Epstein within the next 30 days. Trump has also taken credit for the bill overwhelmingly passing through the House, uh, whatever, Senate. But after this, the full file s- still might not get released. The bill has some major loopholes. Before Trump signed the bill, Attorney General Pam Bondi was asked about the DOJ releasing the complete file. She didn't exactly give a straight answer. What a shock from Blondie. Let's listen.

Narrator 16:42 We will continue to follow the law with maximum transparency, while protecting victims. Yeah. Would you say- And- ... by the law, ma- Attorney General, do you mean that you will provide all the files by 30 days? We will follow the law. The law passed both chambers last evening. It has not yet been signed, but, but we will continue to, to follow the law, again, while protecting victims, but also providing maximum transparency.

Kara Swisher 17:13 Uh, anyone else saying that, I believe she does not. She's gonna follow the law, Scott. The files remain a touchy subject for Trump. When Bloomberg Ka-, uh, Bloomberg's Catherine Lucey asked him about it on Air Force 1 this week, Trump snapped, "Quiet, piggy." Uh, the White House official backed up Trump, saying, "If you're going to give it, you have to be able to take it," I guess. Um, let's start with the release of the files. Um, will it finally put things to rest? And part of the ongoing fallout, there's o-, people are paying the price. Larry Summers is stepping down from teaching at Harvard, where his ties to Epstein were investigated. He also resigned from Open E- Eyes board. Of course, he had a series of his, his "How do I date this lady" emails between him using Epstein as his dating advisor got out, and that was all it took for that. Um, uh, thoughts on this, 'cause I mean, I think it's a question of what's gonna get out. Um, I talked about this a little bit last night. It's a question of what they're gonna release, how they're gonna release it, what's it gonna say if they expunge things or try to favor, uh, Republicans over Democrats, et cetera, et cetera. There's, it's sort of everything's in the details. But I don't think he can ... I think if he, if he does something like that, he'll look even more guilty. But your thoughts?

Scott Galloway 18:26 Well, first off, j- just how ridiculous it is that Trump wants to take credit for the release of the Epstein files-

Kara Swisher 18:32 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 18:32 ... while at the same time, calling it a hoax.

Kara Swisher 18:34 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 18:35 The ridiculous notion that they will continue to follow the law and be maximum transparent, uh, the head of the FBI has already claimed that they released everything they could.... and she has done nothing but s- be, essentially-

Kara Swisher 18:48 Destructive.

Scott Galloway 18:48 ... an acolyte and an instrument. Sh- she's acting like his personal lawyer.

Kara Swisher 18:52 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 18:52 They, they were doing anything they could. I've said the third most powerful person in the world is a dead pedophile who convinced Mike Johnson to, to let Congress, uh, tell Congress to go home 'cause they were so afraid of a vote. He has denied democracy. He wouldn't seat a duly-elected representative because he was worried that she was gonna be the 183rd vote or whatever it is.

Kara Swisher 19:14 283rd vote, yeah.

Scott Galloway 19:14 They have done everything possible to try and delay the release of this, and it has done nothing but create this stench of guilt-

Kara Swisher 19:22 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 19:23 ... around the presidency. But even more bigger than this, last night, I was reading through some of these emails.

Kara Swisher 19:28 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 19:29 I think this is a really big moment, and not just for the reasons we think, that it might implicate or embarrass the president or other people. I think this is that Caesar moment in Planet of the Apes where he says no and it inspires a revolution and reconfigures the social order, or Tiananmen Square, or, uh, the Arab Spring when that young man em- em-

Kara Swisher 19:54 Yeah. I love that you used Planet of the Apes for metaphor, but go ahead. (laughs) No.

Scott Galloway 19:58 Uh, by the way, when I was with Bill Maher, they gave me Planet of the Apes figures. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 20:01 Yeah, that's right. We love Planet of the Apes-

Scott Galloway 20:03 Um-

Kara Swisher 20:03 His producer did.

Scott Galloway 20:04 ... but you know that moment that inspires a revolution?

Kara Swisher 20:07 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 20:08 I think this is it. And it's not, it's not even whether it should be or not, that we might find out about the abhorrent, aberrant, weird behavior of certain individuals. If you read these emails, the thing that I think is going to, that is gonna make this a moment that inspires a pretty serious shift in the ground beneath us is that the tone and the vibe of these men is literally like, "We can do whatever the fuck we want."

Kara Swisher 20:38 Yes. Really? (laughs) Like-

Scott Galloway 20:40 No, but I, I, I think it's easy to be signa- I, I don't think that's true.

Kara Swisher 20:44 I'm not significant, I, I, that's how they behave.

Scott Galloway 20:47 I, I don't think ... I, I, I think, uh, I found it shocking, and I consider-

Kara Swisher 20:51 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 20:51 I think I knowed some of these people pretty well.

Kara Swisher 20:54 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 20:54 I think it's got ... I think people are gonna read this and go, "That's it. We're done."

Kara Swisher 20:58 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 20:59 "We're done with these billionaires talking about fucking space, about-"

Kara Swisher 21:03 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 21:03 ... about-

Kara Swisher 21:04 Shut the fuck up, yeah.

Scott Galloway 21:05 ... about taking $9 billion from farmers, but finding 40 billion for Argentina, about cutting taxes for the rich, but taking away healthcare from 14 million Americans." And then they listen to the tone. It's one thing ... When an individual has aberrant, illegal, strange, depraved behavior, you like to think it's ring-fenced to the fucked-up mind of that person. But when you read these emails, you're like, "This is a vibe."

Kara Swisher 21:32 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 21:32 These people je-

Kara Swisher 21:34 What would you call the vibe? What, what is it? Douche? N- nozzeled? Or-

Scott Galloway 21:38 No, no, no. The word, the word is entitled.

Kara Swisher 21:40 Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 21:41 They feel like they are entitled to an entirely ... It comes back to this one statement I love.

Kara Swisher 21:46 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 21:47 These people think that they are protected by the law, but not bound by it-

Kara Swisher 21:51 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 21:51 ... and that the rest of us are bound by the law, but not protected by it.

Kara Swisher 21:54 Right, right.

Scott Galloway 21:55 And I think people are gonna read these emails and just think, "You know what? This is our Let Them Eat Cake moment. We have had it with these people." And I think you're gonna see, uh, a reconfiguration in tax policy. I think you could see, uh, um, uh, for the first time, a move towards socialized medicine. I think you're gonna see a dramatic increase in tax rates. I think people are g- are gonna think this and go like, "Okay, they're ... Something is wrong in Mudville when we have a small number of powerful people who-"

Kara Swisher 22:23 Struttin', struttin' on the stage. I would agree.

Scott Galloway 22:25 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 22:26 I ... It's so funny you say that because, um, uh, I'm going, um, on, uh, on the, on the I've Had It podcast, and they're gonna come on my podcast, um-

Scott Galloway 22:34 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 22:34 ... and they, they've gotten very popular, uh, and which is, uh, you know, it's Jennifer Walsh and Angie Sullivan.

Scott Galloway 22:39 I was on their podcast.

Kara Swisher 22:41 Yeah. What? I'm sorry. Yeah. They're fun.

Scott Galloway 22:42 I was on their podcast.

Kara Swisher 22:43 Yeah, um-

Scott Galloway 22:43 Yeah, they are. They're fun ladies.

Kara Swisher 22:45 And, but they are also tapping into something. Like, "You've got to fucking be kidding me with these assholes." Like, I think it's really ... A- a- and they do it in a funny way, obviously, but one of the things, uh, as I was watching, and we will talk about this, the, the MBS thing, is, like, and then they went on their thing, they can't shut the fuck up ab- and they strut around, whether it's I- i- NVIDIA's, uh, CEO with his leather jacket pontificating on all manner of things. And just, they won't shut the fuck up. That's what I kept thinking. Like ... And they won't stop taking, right? They won't stop. They're like pi- I, I use the, the, the, the, the Beatles, um ... I put the picture of that dinner up, uh, with the Beatles thing. It's piggies. They're little piggies, like, and that's what it fe- it's got a real piggy, piggish feel to it, and "the quiet piggy" I thought was really ... I mean, I know, you know, whatever, but can you imagine working at a workplace, uh, of s- as, as someone, a CEO saying that to an employee, what would happen? Like-

Scott Galloway 23:46 What do you mean? What the president said?

Kara Swisher 23:47 The quiet piggy, yeah. And then, of course, insulting Mary Bruce from ABC for asking a perfectly legitimate question about corruption. Like, and also about the death of Jamal Khashoggi. I just was like, "Quiet piggy?" That, to me, to ... That really, I think, infuriated so many people.

Scott Galloway 24:06 Yeah, very.

Kara Swisher 24:06 And not because, "How dare you call me, you know, a, you know, a girl when I'm a woman." That wasn't that. It was ... There, there's something in the, the words that ... Quiet and-

Scott Galloway 24:16 Right.

Kara Swisher 24:16 ... piggy together is something's really ... It sort of encapsulates these people, that's-

Scott Galloway 24:22 But that ... Again, I think this is bigger than that.

Kara Swisher 24:25 Yes! Yes.

Scott Galloway 24:25 I think that a man who has demonstrated nothing but an immense lack of character, uh, a level of misogyny, punching down, has no sense of, of the connection between prosperity and protection, is depraved, selfish. Uh, I, I think, I really do think President Trump, and I don't use this word lightly, is gonna be a stain on the American experience. He's gonna be ... And the history books are just not gonna be kind.... to him. But this is bigger than that. And also, I do think it's a little unfair, Kara, to- Kara, to conflate or include Jensen Huang as the same breath as these guys. Jensen-

Kara Swisher 25:01 No, but I'm talking about, they won't stop dancing on the stage. They're, they take and take and take.

Scott Galloway 25:06 Yeah, but Jen- Dance- Jensen has to dance to support a $5 trillion valuation.

Kara Swisher 25:10 I get it. Yes, I get it, okay.

Scott Galloway 25:11 He's talking his own book.

Kara Swisher 25:12 Yes.

Scott Galloway 25:12 But an entirely different league of depraved, and also more than an individual being-

Kara Swisher 25:18 That's a fair point. That's a-

Scott Galloway 25:19 ... very insecure and weird like President Trump. This culture where they all speak as if it's, there's this underlying baseline assumption that they just get to live by a different set of rules.

Kara Swisher 25:32 Yes. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 25:33 When I'm reading these emails, I'm like, "Oh, he's an idiot," or, "Oh God, uh, this person sounds weird," or whatever. But you start to see this vibe across these people where it's like, they have just decided that the rules no longer of decorum, of decency no longer apply to them.

Kara Swisher 25:51 Talk about Summers, because you know, he's a very, you know, l- he's a Democrat. He was a Democrat, and he's been very critical of President Trump. You know, for years, he's- he's very arrogant. He's had very, uh, he has an enormous reputation for arrogance and rude remarks about women, et cetera, when he was at Harvard and women are stupider, essentially. Um, and of course, he has... I think he's out now, right? I mean, it's really interesting.

Scott Galloway 26:13 He's out. He's done.

Kara Swisher 26:14 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 26:14 He's done.

Kara Swisher 26:15 What do you think of this? I mean, if I was, uh, when... I think I texted the OpenA- I- I'm not sure if I did. I was like, "He's off, right?" He's... I never loved it when he got on the board, but, uh, he was a weird choice in my opinion. But, um, but what do you... why does he pay? It's really... and his- his emails were weird, you know? They're basically dating advice from Jeffrey Epstein. Um, weird enough, but wh- how, why do you think he... he definitely is stepping out from Harvard, off OpenAI board, and he's pretty much done. That would be my thing, correct? There's no returning from this, or maybe there is. Who knows?

Scott Galloway 26:48 The problem is when the grenade explodes, there's not a lot of nuance in the shrapnel.

Kara Swisher 26:52 Yeah, fair point.

Scott Galloway 26:52 And I would argue...

Kara Swisher 26:54 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 26:54 ... that... I mean, the temptation is just to pile on everyone here. You get accused of being-

Kara Swisher 26:59 Right.

Scott Galloway 26:59 ... an Epstein, a defender of Epstein. I, and I'm not that.

Kara Swisher 27:03 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 27:03 I think Larry demonstrated poor judgment and immaturity, but I don't think what he did (laughs) was like, in, even in the same fucking universe...

Kara Swisher 27:13 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 27:13 ... as what some of these people are being accused of.

Kara Swisher 27:15 Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 27:16 He's, he had poor judgment, continuing to fraternize with a guy who was a convicted pedophile.

Kara Swisher 27:22 Right. Bad look.

Scott Galloway 27:23 And he just looks stupid asking for dating advice.

Kara Swisher 27:26 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 27:27 But, and also, I do think it's a little bit unfair. A lot of the research ar- that he got a lot of shit for-

Kara Swisher 27:33 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 27:33 ... was citing differences in certain types of intelligence between the genders.

Kara Swisher 27:37 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 27:37 And it wasn't that he was saying one gender, I don't believe, was less intelligent-

Kara Swisher 27:40 Any kind of wise.

Scott Galloway 27:40 ... than the other. He- he- he got in trouble for just saying that they were different. And so-

Kara Swisher 27:44 Well, and th- but in the email, you heard- he- he was very clear. He was, he was-

Scott Galloway 27:49 I- I get it, but can you imagine if all of your emails became public?

Kara Swisher 27:52 No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't want them... that's what I thought. I thought-

Scott Galloway 27:54 I mean, i- if- if people s-

Kara Swisher 27:56 ... "Well, this is, this is who's gonna pay, this asshole?"

Scott Galloway 27:57 People s-

Kara Swisher 27:57 I mean, I think he's arrogant, but...

Scott Galloway 27:58 I think you're a, a very thoughtful-

Kara Swisher 28:01 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 28:02 ... uh, progressive person with great judgment. I think someone could look through every one of your emails and cherry-pick them-

Kara Swisher 28:07 Agreed.

Scott Galloway 28:07 ... and make you look really, really bad.

Kara Swisher 28:09 Agreed. I- I wasn't-

Scott Galloway 28:11 And-

Kara Swisher 28:11 ... asking dating advice from Jeffrey Epstein. It's an unfortunate person to... yes.

Scott Galloway 28:13 I- I get it, but... I get it. It's not the world's biggest tragedy that a 70-year-old man has to leave these boards and- and leave.

Kara Swisher 28:20 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 28:20 But quite frankly, he's like, a little bit like Gary Hart. The earth has shifted beneath Larry Summers at exactly the wrong time.

Kara Swisher 28:26 Exactly. That's what I was thinking.

Scott Galloway 28:28 And, and I would argue that if these things came out in the c- in a different context-

Kara Swisher 28:34 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 28:34 ... two years ago or five years ago, it would be embarrassing and Page Six and Post, but it wouldn't end his career.

Kara Swisher 28:40 Right. No, he's definitely standing on the crack as it opens. I mean, that's the thing. And people don't like him, right? So, it also adds that people aren't like... he's- he's- he's been arrogant enough.

Scott Galloway 28:47 Well, and he's a Democrat. And- and so you can imagine-

Kara Swisher 28:50 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 28:50 ... that the Republican operatives wanted one of-

Kara Swisher 28:53 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 28:53 ... this story to get as much oxygen to push out what should be real st- real stories-

Kara Swisher 28:59 Of real abusers, yeah.

Scott Galloway 28:59 ... of people abusing children. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 29:01 Mm-hmm. Yep.

Scott Galloway 29:02 So, I- I don't wanna say I feel sorry for Larry, but I don't think-

Kara Swisher 29:06 Hmm. Yeah, which is interesting.

Scott Galloway 29:06 ... I don't think... this is a different... this is an embarrassing, stupid behavior-

Kara Swisher 29:10 It is.

Scott Galloway 29:11 ... of a tone-deaf older man.

Kara Swisher 29:13 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 29:13 It is not child abuse. It is not-

Kara Swisher 29:15 No, I know. Well, that we all know that.

Scott Galloway 29:16 And- and so I think this is different, and I- I don't-

Kara Swisher 29:19 I agree. I just thought this was the one that... this is the guy that's gonna get it, like this dumbass. Like...

Scott Galloway 29:23 Yeah, this is the person they're going after?

Kara Swisher 29:25 Yeah, I think.

Scott Galloway 29:25 This is-

Kara Swisher 29:25 Well, we'll see

Scott Galloway 29:26 ... the press is focusing on a guy asking for dating advice?

Kara Swisher 29:29 How- how much stuff is gonna come out? Even this short amount of stuff has done damage to Tr- v- very much has done damage to Trump. No question. You know, this is what he's talking about all the time, right? This is what he... this is his topic of, of, um... This is his topic, let's just say. Like, this is now what he's doing. So, he... I don't think the shoes have dropped fully for Donald Trump on this issue yet. But a question of how much Pam Bondi, who's relatively incompetent, as you can tell by other cases... actually, not relatively. She's completely incompetent. Um, I- I feel like they're gonna bollocks it, and it's gonna really come to slap Trump really hard on his

Scott Galloway 30:04 ... on his trunk. See, the way I would describe Pam Bondi, unfortunately, she's more dangerous 'cause I don't think she's incompetent. I think she's corrupt.

Kara Swisher 30:11 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 30:12 I don't-

Kara Swisher 30:12 I don't think she's incompetent.

Scott Galloway 30:13 I- I don't think-

Kara Swisher 30:14 Look at that case against Comey. Oh my God. Like-

Scott Galloway 30:16 Oh, no, but that's the- the appointee who has no business being a lawyer.

Kara Swisher 30:18 Right, but she's part of it. I mean, nothing gets signed off, you know?

Scott Galloway 30:21 That's fair. That's fair.

Kara Swisher 30:22 Right, I think she's incompetent.

Scott Galloway 30:23 That's fair.

Kara Swisher 30:23 I think she's... I don't think they're gonna be able to cover it up. That's my feeling. I think it's gonna be very hard to cover this stuff up. It's getting out. It- it's getting out. Uh, it's just gonna get out. This is how I feel about this.

Scott Galloway 30:33 But- but what... And I'll- I'll- I'll push this question to you.

Kara Swisher 30:36 Finished that, yeah. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 30:37 There's a chance that people are like, "Okay, am I gonna go down... is GOP, uh, gonna s- begin to stand for Guardians of Pedophiles?"

Kara Swisher 30:46 Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 30:47 And, uh, Pedophiles, and I do not-

Kara Swisher 30:50 That was in LA on a wall.

Scott Galloway 30:50 ... "I do not wanna be one of these people, so now I'm gonna flip and become aggressive, including disparaging the President if I need to."

Kara Swisher 30:58 Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 30:59 Uh, is this-

Kara Swisher 30:59 That can happen.

Scott Galloway 30:59 ... is this a turning point where people are like, "Oh, fuck, I don't wanna-"

Kara Swisher 31:02 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 31:02 "... be an accomplice here."

Kara Swisher 31:03 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 31:03 "I'm gonna start turning on the mob boss"?

Kara Swisher 31:05 Yeah, I think so, as I said. And that's what happens with all these people. And actually, Thomas Massie made that point, the one who's got and pushed this through. I gotta say, he really has a set to have pushed this through and been successful. Anyway, um, a- along with Ro Khanna. Uh, uh, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about whether Elon Musk and Trump are getting back together, speaking of people who are recovering themselves. (car engine)

Narrator 31:29 300 sensors, over a million data points per second. How does F1 update their fans with every stat in real time? AWS is how. (rock music) From fastest laps to strategy calls, AWS puts fans in the pit. It's not just racing, it's data-driven innovation at 200 miles per hour. AWS is how leading businesses power next-level innovation.

Kara Swisher 31:57 Scott, we're back with more news. Elon Musk seems to be dipping his toe back into politics. Musk made an appearance at the

Kara Swisher 32:03 White House dinner hosted by Donald Trump and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman on Tuesday. Aside from Charlie Kirk's memorial, this is the only time Musk and Trump have been seen together since their big feud. Uh, I'm not sure if the bromance rekindled.

Kara Swisher 32:16 And while we're on the topic of Saudi, uh, the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman's visit, let's hear what Trump had to say when a journalist at the White House brought up the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. I'll remind people, uh, our intelligence services have linked, uh, the, the, they cut him into pieces, they, bon- I call him Mohammed Bone Saw. Um, uh, and, and it was at his behest, so let's listen.

Narrator 32:40 As far as this gentleman is concerned, he's done a phenomenal job. You're mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial. A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you're talking about. Whether you like him or didn't like him, things happened. But he knew nothing about it, and we can leave it at that. You don't have to embarrass our guest by asking a question like that.

Kara Swisher 32:59 It's ridiculous. What a ridiculous thing. He did know. Our intelligence services, he, he ordered the murder. And actually, oddly enough, MBS was more, I guess, like, "We've made... mistakes were made," and I think he, he, he was actually more truthful about what happened, which is he ordered this murder. This is a murder. It's, there's no other way to put it about Jamal Khashoggi. And what was really... uh, it just striking because, you know, he sort of slathered himself, which I don't think is gonna help him with his MAGA friends. Um, uh, but I just think he's slapping himself and this guy was making all these claims about $1 trillion in investment, which the Saudi economy isn't that big, right? It's kind of-

Scott Galloway 33:36 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 33:36 ... and there, of course, are s- that, that PIF, which they don't like, P-I-F, is having problems 'cause of, of all ki- n- I think it's NEOM or whatever they're building.

Scott Galloway 33:46 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 33:46 They're all, a lot of their investments are turning, you know, you know, tits up, as they say. So, you know, don't embarrass guests about murders they've committed, Scott. That's, I guess that's what I would take away from this. This was the strangest encounter lately. And mostly Trump looking kind of weirdly, again, corrupt once again.

Scott Galloway 34:06 It, it goes to what you said, it's incompetence. They, they should have been prepared for that question. And I actually think that MBS, if he'd said, "Look, uh, uh, my government makes mistakes." And, and-

Kara Swisher 34:19 He did. He did actually.

Scott Galloway 34:20 ... and without referencing... he actually said that.

Kara Swisher 34:23 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 34:23 Also, quite frankly, he could have said, "You know, a lot of people think that your country coming into my region and killing 400,000 people in Iraq was a mistake."

Kara Swisher 34:32 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 34:32 I mean, they, they just should have been prepared for that question.

Kara Swisher 34:36 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 34:36 And I think they could have answered it. You're, you're not gonna find moral clarity, moral clarity in geopolitics.

Kara Swisher 34:42 Correct.

Scott Galloway 34:42 A- and (laughs) I, I wanna be, I wanna be clear. I believe that MBS ordered the murder and hacking of a U.S. resident who-

Kara Swisher 34:51 So does our intelligence services. It's not, I don't think it's in question by anybody but Trump.

Scott Galloway 34:55 But, uh, the, what I always put forward is, "Okay, now what? Now what do... uh, we went in and killed 400,000 people in Iraq. Does that mean no one in the region should ever do, deal with our econ..." I mean, it's like, "Okay, now what, folks?" And, but for the President to get defensive and weird about a question they knew was gonna come, they should have been able to... uh, and MBS, I don't wanna say I'm a fan of MBS. I'm a fan of U.S.-Saudi relations because I think it's ultimately the, the smartest thing for U.S. defense and security. And also, I, I, I, I, I think any hono- honest a- analysis s- would have to position MBS as actual, an actual reformer. So I don't... uh, w- but this is incompetence for the President not to know this question was coming, be this defensive-

Kara Swisher 35:45 Uh, but, but why the, why this slathering, you know, the insulting of our allies that are more important than MBS, Europe, et cetera, and the sort of like... it was, speaking of blow jobs, it was like a blow job of a dinner. It was a blow... and pretending that these... I mean, and ridiculous repetition. He's gonna invest a billio- a trillion dollars. Their economy is not that big.

Scott Galloway 36:06 Yeah. Uh, for sure.

Kara Swisher 36:06 It's just, it's, they're, they're a minor... they're, they're having their own troubles with their investments, by the way. Uh, they've made all kinds of bad investments. And, um, a- and, and of course most people just went there to get money from them, right? They were sort of like the ba- the, the, the cash machine, essentially, the, uh, for people to go over there from Silicon Valley and elsewhere. And a lot of it has just turned up shitty. So why are we giving this much attention to this group of people and handing over... I think he did great. He got the F-35s. What the fuck did we get except our President decided that being Bone Saw it is just, you know, things happen, my friend. Like... (laughs)

Scott Galloway 36:42 Oh look, we have, we get a lot. We, we have military bases there. We cor-

Kara Swisher 36:46 But in this deal right now, right?

Scott Galloway 36:47 Well, we're getting a lot, we're getting a lot of money. We continue to get access to cheap capital f- to fund our companies.

Kara Swisher 36:53 But they're not actually. As I sent you that story. They're not. They're cutting back rather su- substantively on all their investments here.

Scott Galloway 37:00 Uh, the pivot, if you will, or the change in complexion around investments coming out of the Gulf is the following. They used to send their capital overseas. And what they're saying now is, "We'll invest in your company, but we want you to build facto- we want you to build an economy here."

Kara Swisher 37:14 Right, which we don't want to do.

Scott Galloway 37:14 So rather than giving you money to, rather than giving you money to go build a ride-hailing service in Miami-

Kara Swisher 37:20 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 37:20 ... we'll give you money, but we want you to build a ride-hailing service here and we want you to have a regional headquarters here. We need to build an internal consumption economy as opposed to just a giant hedge fund.

Kara Swisher 37:30 Yes. I, I... makes sense.

Scott Galloway 37:31 The rela- if we normalize relationships between the Kingdom and Israel, I think it'll make the whole, whole region more-

Kara Swisher 37:36 Which he didn't promise to sign o- he didn't...They didn't get that out of him. It's true.

Scott Galloway 37:40 Which will be, which will be more peaceful. I, I think that, look, I, I think that they are now the, either the biggest or the second-biggest economy in the region. We have huge strategic overlap. I don't think he should've come. I, I, I think that they were ... This is just f- this demonstrates economist, uh, uh, incompetence. This is an important strategic relationship that needs to be managed better than the president not prepared for an obvious question that is coming down the pike, that makes MBS look bad, that makes the president look bad. This is just incompetence.

Kara Swisher 38:14 And then he threatened ABC's license, right? And he just sucked up the entire thing. If I were Bob Iger right now, I'd be like, just I would go on the offensive, like, "Go ahead."

Scott Galloway 38:24 Well, they kinda are.

Kara Swisher 38:25 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 38:25 They, they, they have been very, I don't wanna say bold, but they've been unafraid lately because I was at, I was at one of these masters of the universe dinners with eight or 10 people o- of, uh, in LA. And I mean, some very powerful people in front of other people, in front of mixed company were like, "Bob Iger is a fucking coward."

Kara Swisher 38:46 Mm-hmm. I know that. I've heard that.

Scott Galloway 38:48 And these are people in the industry that are big.

Kara Swisher 38:50 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 38:51 And so-

Kara Swisher 38:52 I've heard that. Okay.

Scott Galloway 38:52 So I think Bob has decided, "That is not how I wanna go out."

Kara Swisher 38:56 That's right.

Scott Galloway 38:57 I think he's having, I think he's recognized he fucked up and I think, I don't wanna say they're overcorrecting, but if you look at George Stephanopoulos, if you look at the-

Kara Swisher 39:04 This woman.

Scott Galloway 39:04 They have basically said to the journalist at ABC as far as I can tell-

Kara Swisher 39:08 Mm-hmm. Go for it.

Scott Galloway 39:09 ... "Go, go after him."

Kara Swisher 39:12 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 39:12 "Go, y- th- th- don't, you know, we need, we are hardcore journalists. Start acting like it."

Kara Swisher 39:18 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 39:18 Uh, anyway-

Kara Swisher 39:19 I agree.

Scott Galloway 39:19 ... that's, that's my sense.

Kara Swisher 39:21 I, I, I, I know this. I think he's, I think, I think the time for, you know, uh, the time for ... What's that expression from my favorite movie, Gladiator? "The time for celebrating yourself is over." I think that they, I do think that. I thought that question, I thought that reporter did a great job, was very respectful and asked exactly the question in a respectful but firm way. Same thing with George Stephanopoulos. I think they're like, "Bring it fucking on. You take a go. Come take our license. Please try. Give it a try. Let's see how that works out for you." I mean, that's the thing, and then, you know, his n- his unctuous toti- brand new car.

Scott Galloway 39:54 I, I, I think this is Bob Iger trying to salvage his reputation f-

Kara Swisher 39:56 And he should. And he should.

Scott Galloway 39:57 ... before the, six months before he announces his succession plan.

Kara Swisher 40:00 He should. He's got nothing to lose.

Scott Galloway 40:02 Good for him.

Kara Swisher 40:03 Yeah, good for him. Anyway, um, as we were speaking of deals in Hollywood 'cause you were with the masters of the universe, I'd like to know what you think. Um, the deadline has arrived for Warner Bros. Discovery bids. Paramount, Comcast,

Kara Swisher 40:13 and Netflix are expected to make offers for some or all the company. Paramount is widely considered the front runner thanks to financial and political advantages, but we'll see. The company is denying a report that it's partnered with sovereign wealth funds of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Abu Dhabi for a $71 billion offer that was reported. Warner Bros. board is expected to review the offers before Thanksgiving and aim to have the process wrapped by the end of the year. Um, they could also still just do the spinout thing, but there's enough interest here at this ... And this is real interest, and let me say, Comcast is definitely interested, um, uh, in this. I think they're perplexed about the non-economic bid by Paramount because Daddy Warbucks has the money to do so. And they wanna make an economic, and they mostly are in- they're interested in, in the, in the studios and the streaming service. Netflix has promised things like putting movies into theaters. They're trying to m- m- make themselves seem attractive. Um, so any ... I know you think this is a small thing, but it's a, it's a big deal for Hollywood, right?

Scott Galloway 41:10 Yeah. No doubt.

Kara Swisher 41:10 This is ... And it'll also make, uh, it'll go, it'll make the number of studios smaller, which of course now the writers and the directors, they're all sort of weighing in here. So I, I expect plenty of, of pushback from them, um, depending on what happens here. Most people, I think Zaslav is favoring Comcast. That's my impression. Um, he'll get a bigger role there. Uh, I don't think people much like, I think the, the worm has turned already on David Ellison a little bit. They, they st- they, they're very, to me, they're very freely calling him nep- nepo baby, and, you know, his UFC deal seems a little overpaid. It seems like a ... Uh, one of them said they just, uh, these other billionaires just took advantage of the dumber billionaire, young billionaire essentially. Um, so I don't know, but they have money and they have, you know, non-economic power, I guess. They just, they just want it. I just, y- you know, daddy wants to buy his son the car, I guess. I don't know. Uh, what do you think? I, I feel like Comcast is the best owner here or Netflix, but, um, in terms of quality and, and the ability to, to move forward, I think Paramount desperately needs this. Uh, thoughts about what did you hear in LA?

Scott Galloway 42:20 The fulcrum in this deal is simply put how wealthy Larry Ellison feels when he gets up in the morning, when he gets a call from his son and says, "Okay. What's our best and final?" Because, and Warner Bros. and their bankers have done the right thing. They've put a deadline on this thing to try and impose some discipline and say, "Okay, let's-"

Kara Swisher 42:38 Explain why they did that for people who don't know 'cause you're-

Scott Galloway 42:41 Oh, you do, whenever you're selling a company and you have multiple bidders, which it appears they do now, or at least multiple interested parties, you put a deadline on it, and you force people to get serious and put their best foot forward. You try and create a sense of urgency. Um, and so you impose some dis- discipline and say, "Okay, all letters of intent need to be in by a certain date and your best and final offers have to be in by this date." And then you, and then you go back and ask them for a little bit more to get the deal done. But just to give ... It's a little bit confusing, so I just wanna sort of break it, break down the parties here.

Kara Swisher 43:09 Please. Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 43:09 So Paramount, after having their 23.50, $23.50 a share bid rejected, they're reportedly preparing an offer alongside of sovereign wealth funds of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Abu Dhabi, although par-

Kara Swisher 43:22 Which they've denied.

Scott Galloway 43:24 Although they've denied this.

Kara Swisher 43:25 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 43:25 Although that felt like good reporting to me.

Kara Swisher 43:27 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 43:27 I don't know if you saw it.

Kara Swisher 43:28 I did.

Scott Galloway 43:29 That, that doesn't feel like a rumor. It felt too obtuse to be just a rumor.

Kara Swisher 43:32 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 43:33 Netflix execs have met with Warner Bros. and reportedly said that a potential bid would include continuing the release of Warner Bros. movies in theaters. They're trying to appeal to the creative community. Comcast, the company has retained bankers for an offer and we now know that they are specifically interested in streaming and studios and networks.... it, the, but here's the bottom line, it, because of what was called the Revlon law or whatever it was called, the, Warner Bros. has an obligation to just accept the highest bidder. Uh, all this other stuff is somewhat noise. They will get shareholder lawsuits at the end of the day. They can say to someone, "We like you, and if you match this, we'll give it to you." But at, at the end of the day, if Ellison shows up with 10 cents more per share, they have a shareholder obligation-

Kara Swisher 44:18 So will he do that? That's what I'm-

Scott Galloway 44:20 Well, that's, uh, that's a-

Kara Swisher 44:21 ... asking. The shares are down. They went, they had that big run up, and now they're running down. This, uh, of all the companies.

Scott Galloway 44:26 That's the correct question.

Kara Swisher 44:28 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 44:28 This all comes down to, in my view-

Kara Swisher 44:30 Daddy.

Scott Galloway 44:31 ... Larry Ellison wakes up in the morning, and David, his son, calls him and says, "Okay, it's gonna cost us 24.75 to get this." This is, the bankers will do their job. The bankers will get the highest number, and then they'll go back to the Ellisons, who have the deepest pocket, and say, "We have an offer at 24 bucks a share." At the end, it makes sense to be fairly transparent. The truth has a nice ring to it. Say they get 24 bucks a share from Comcast or, uh, or Netflix, whatever, they basically, the smart thing to do would be to go back and say to the Ellisons, "At 26 bucks a share, by 5:00 PM tomorrow, it's yours." You go back and say, "This is your strike opportunity."

Kara Swisher 45:10 And then do you go back to Comcast and say, they, they-

Scott Galloway 45:12 I don't think ... I, when you get to this point, I think you pick, you pick the person with the deepest pockets, and you go back to them and say, "In my view-"

Kara Swisher 45:19 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 45:19 "... it's yours." I think going back and forth, at some point, you know, at some point, people are gonna tire. I, I, I personally think you get, you have a bidding process, and then you go back to one, and you ask for a bigger-

Kara Swisher 45:30 Yes.

Scott Galloway 45:30 ... premium and say it's, "You can take it off the pay- table at this price."

Kara Swisher 45:32 So let me ask you a question. What is the best, what is the best, w- w- for, for these companies and for Hollywood, what would be the best owner, away from the price? And I understand price, uh, is all that matters in the end, but from your pers- analysis, if all things being equal, what, which they aren't always, which owner is the best owner for these properties?

Scott Galloway 45:52 So I'm not thinking about it in terms of who would do the best job with the assets. I think of it as who creates the most robust ecosystem because w- I wouldn't want, like you know me, I love Ted Sarandos. I think he's the (laughs) brightest guy in media, quite frankly, and also, I think, the most, I don't know-

Kara Swisher 46:09 Great team.

Scott Galloway 46:10 Yeah, just, I, I, they, they're just a management team-

Kara Swisher 46:13 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 46:14 ... that, that just consistently performs, and, uh, I, I, I would love-

Kara Swisher 46:18 But has weaknesses in terms of not enough content.

Scott Galloway 46:20 But I wouldn't want to see Netflix own this.

Kara Swisher 46:23 Right.

Scott Galloway 46:23 Because I w- the two biggest streamers right now are Netflix and-

Kara Swisher 46:28 And YouTube.

Scott Galloway 46:28 ... Alphabet.

Kara Swisher 46:29 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 46:29 And I would like to see a viable third competitor. Nev- uh, Y- YouTube has approximately 11.5% of the streaming market.

Kara Swisher 46:35 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 46:35 Netflix has eight or nine. I'd like to see another player at seven that could go toe to toe-

Kara Swisher 46:40 I think that's Disney, right?

Scott Galloway 46:40 ... with the other two.

Kara Swisher 46:41 Isn't it Disney? Or this-

Scott Galloway 46:42 Well, (sighs) I don't think, Disney doesn't have the money to do this.

Kara Swisher 46:45 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 46:45 Um, so I would argue that it's, it's either Comcast, and in a weird way, I think Paramount bulking up with Netflix money would be good for the ecosystem because when you have too much concentration-

Kara Swisher 46:56 Netflix-

Scott Galloway 46:56 ... of power-

Kara Swisher 46:56 With Netflix money? I'm sorry, with, with-

Scott Galloway 46:58 No, no, no.

Kara Swisher 46:59 ... Ellison money.

Scott Galloway 47:00 Ellison money.

Kara Swisher 47:00 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 47:01 Mu- uh, Paramount, right? So-

Kara Swisher 47:02 Yeah, Paramount, yeah.

Scott Galloway 47:03 ... uh, that gives them bulk. They become a formidable competitor 'cause when you have a lack of competitors, what effectively happens is the tran- and this is what's, you could describe is happening to the US economy, there's a transfer of wealth from labor to capital. And there's been too much (laughs) transfer of wealth from labor to capital. There's too many people, there's, there's too many people with not a lot of pricing power. And share, uh, share earnings as a percentage of the economy, corporate profits have never been higher. Wages have been somewhat stagnant. That means there's too much concentration of power among the buyers of labor. So what do you want? You want a diverse ecosystem with a lot of competition constantly trying to figure out a way to lower prices to consumers, constantly trying to figure out a way to spend more of their shareholder money on content, more jobs. I just don't wanna ... I just wanna see robust competition.

Kara Swisher 47:53 Sure, but this is gonna get a buzz saw from the right, everybody else, 'cause it is gonna limit the ... I mean, I know they're promising to make as many movies. I don't believe 'em. Um, and the second part is, uh, uh, to me, the best owner is Comcast here for th- for this stuff, and then to spin off the news. Like, let's stop playing fucking games with this. You know, they don't, they, first of all, the Ellisons are not interested in news. I don't care what they say.

Scott Galloway 48:16 I agree.

Kara Swisher 48:16 Second thing is, as much as they go on and on about being the tech solution, I have not heard any specifics 'cause I've tried to get speci- I'm like, they're like, "We're gonna do it tech," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, "Specifically what?" And they're like, "Tech," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, "Specifically what?" Like, "Tell me. Explain to me." And then they're just like, "Barry Ellison Tech," tech, tech, tech, tech. And I'm like, "Why don't you just make good stuff at, like, and, and sell tickets? Like, do, do your business well, like, whatever it happens to be." And I, I know there are all kinds of synergies with technology, back end, as I've talked about. I've interviewed lots of people, but to me, uh, they're, they're kind of blowhards at this point.

Scott Galloway 48:55 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 48:56 And, and they're blowhards. I don't know what else to say. I like a lot of them. I think, um, I, I, whatever you think of Jeff Shell, I think he's quite smart. Um, but honestly, I'm like, I, I pref- I prefer the Comcast people. I find Brian Roberts to be an honorable person. I think his team, like Donna Langley, exquisite taste. Um, Mike Kavanaugh is, w- if you spend a minute with him, you realize what a smart guy he is. I feel like they'd be the best, th- the smartest owners. I think they did a brilliant job on the Olympics, for example, speaking of deploying technology. They're not blah, blah, blah people. And so, uh, I, I prefer them. Like, they, th- they can point to the Olympics and say, "This is what we did." "Oh, okay, I get it. Okay, good job." Right? And so they seem to, to me to be the best owners. I, I think they have to get this too. I think they think this is existential for them. So I don't, wouldn't count them out in terms of, like, being slightly non-economic. I, I know they disdain, like, the non-economic part of it 'cause they're kind of, they're kind of ... they're not pencil pushers, but they're very-... they're very, um, disciplined financial people. They're not like, they don't just like, "I want it, Daddy." Like, I like David Ellison as a person, but he feels like Veruca Sal- you know, what is it? What's the ... Remember in Willy Wonka?

Scott Galloway 50:14 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 50:15 "I want it now."

Scott Galloway 50:16 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 50:16 Like, that's what I feel like. (laughs) I'm like, "Daddy, get me that squirrel." Like, like, that's what it feels like. And I, and I'm sort of like, I'd like your actual ideas versus your ... Or the idea, this is the last thing, is I was thinking about like, oh, I'm friends, you know, that Tom, like Tom Cruise is a pal- ... You know why Tom Cruise likes you? 'Cause you have money. Like, that's it. That's, maybe you're-

Scott Galloway 50:36 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 50:36 ... a little bit interesting for a rich person. But to me, I would like the disciplined quality creators of content here to get this, right? So that they have, I don't know, I, I guess Paramount could do a good job with it too, but they both need it. That's, to me, that- the, the most ... I, I would say Paramount needs it most of all, and probably will overpay, um, which he has shown his, his proclivity to do. Comcast is the one I think would be the best owner. And I think Netflix should just go do their thing as much as they might need this content, and just do what they're doing, 'cause it seems to be working, of how they're doing it. Anyway, that's my analysis.

Scott Galloway 51:14 So, so let's talk about what each could potentially get from it.

Kara Swisher 51:16 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 51:16 Paramount wants the streaming and network business. A combined Paramount, Warner Bros., uh, Discovery streaming service would have about 200 million subscribers, making it, giving it parody with Disney but still behind Netflix at 300 million. Folding WBD's cable assets would, would present a lot of opportunities for cost-cutting and savings, as Ellison is already doing with Paramount properties. It gives them the scale they would need to punch against the big guys. Netflix, they want access to WBD's premium content-

Kara Swisher 51:48 Right.

Scott Galloway 51:48 ... including live sports. Uh, if they-

Kara Swisher 51:50 Game of Thrones, Ba ba se Tron.

Scott Galloway 51:51 If they absorb premium WB content, you know, Sopranos, Game of Thrones, The Wire, movie franchises, Harry Potter-

Kara Swisher 51:58 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 51:58 ... DC Comics.

Kara Swisher 51:59 Great film.

Scott Galloway 52:00 Netflix could force some subscribers to switch over.

Kara Swisher 52:03 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 52:03 WBD also holds rights in various markets for nearly every sports league, which would basically give Netflix the opportunity to plant a pretty big flag into live sports, which they don't have right now. Com- Comcast wants to try and quite frankly, this would be a defensive move for them. Their stock has been in decline for five years. It's lost over half its value since its peak, and the company has seen consistent cable losses and facing intense streaming competition and they're, right now they're thinking, "We have to take a big swing, because if our stock keeps going down, we're not gonna have the bat to make a big swing pretty soon." So they're, it's more of a defensive or a, a safer move.

Kara Swisher 52:40 To me, existential. To, it's existential for them.

Scott Galloway 52:42 But, but what, what I just wanna point out is that we can talk till the cows come home about who would be the best owner.

Kara Swisher 52:48 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 52:49 At the end of the day, the owner-

Kara Swisher 52:51 Right.

Scott Galloway 52:51 ... is gonna be who comes up with one penny more than the rest of them.

Kara Swisher 52:53 Right.

Scott Galloway 52:54 So, i- it's fun to talk about who needs it, unless, quote unquote, "the best owner" sees that opportunity and it justifies the highest bid-

Kara Swisher 53:03 That's right.

Scott Galloway 53:03 ... it doesn't matter who, quote unquote, "the best owner" is.

Kara Swisher 53:05 But, that's what I was making the argument, is I think for Comcast, this is existential. They have to grab it. They, they have to have it, and-

Scott Galloway 53:10 If they can afford it, because-

Kara Swisher 53:11 If they can afford it.

Scott Galloway 53:12 ... that's, it's gonna be, given that th- See, they're shopping, it's the opposite for them.

Kara Swisher 53:16 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 53:16 Warner Bros. Discovery-

Kara Swisher 53:18 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 53:18 ... versus five years ago, is twice as expensive as it was-

Kara Swisher 53:22 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 53:22 ... because their stock's been cut in half.

Kara Swisher 53:24 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 53:25 So they're shopping with a credit card. You know, I, I, the analogy I lose is, u- use is we have one of these green light credit cards for our kids.

Kara Swisher 53:32 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 53:33 And we fill it up based on their allowance or chores-

Kara Swisher 53:35 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 53:35 ... they've done or whatever. The last part is a lie, my kids don't do a fucking thing around the house.

Kara Swisher 53:39 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 53:39 Anyways, but I like to pretend I'm imposing some reasonable parenting on them. I'm not, I'm not.

Kara Swisher 53:43 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 53:43 Anyways, but what people-

Kara Swisher 53:46 I'll do it for you.

Scott Galloway 53:46 Like I've said, Palantir, everything in the world right now is 90%-

Kara Swisher 53:51 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 53:51 ... off for Palantir 'cause their stock's up tenfold.

Kara Swisher 53:54 Although, it's down recently, this week, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 53:56 No, well okay, but i- it's all relative, okay? (laughs)

Kara Swisher 53:59 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 53:59 It's, it's, it's, everything's 80% off.

Kara Swisher 54:02 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 54:02 For Comcast, everything's twice as expensive as it was five years ago.

Kara Swisher 54:06 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 54:06 But quite frankly, Comcast, the Roberts family, they're very smart, and they're disciplined. They're looking at the world and going, "Are we about to become the smallest player and just oversee a declining ship and this becomes a distressed asset with a bunch of assets that are kind of melting?" So, they, they're probably gonna have to stretch, but they're probably saying, "Okay, i- uh, do," we, we prob- they probably, at the end of the day, need it more than anyone else.

Kara Swisher 54:37 Right. That's what I was thinking.

Scott Galloway 54:38 The Ellisons need bulk.

Kara Swisher 54:41 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 54:41 And they have the deepest pockets.

Kara Swisher 54:43 Right.

Scott Galloway 54:43 Netflix would use this offensively. I think it, I don't wanna say it'd be game over, but if Netflix got these assets, Jesus Christ, try and stop Netflix.

Kara Swisher 54:51 Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Scott Galloway 54:52 Um-

Kara Swisher 54:52 So which one do you think is gonna get it? I agree with you, I mean, I think one of the things with the Comcast people that are like, "How can they do this?" I'm like, "They're rich." And I, that's all I say.

Scott Galloway 55:01 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 55:01 Like, how do you explain it? And I go-

Scott Galloway 55:03 This is-

Kara Swisher 55:03 ... "They're rich." And they're like-

Scott Galloway 55:04 This all comes down-

Kara Swisher 55:05 They go, "Yeah, but." I go, "They're r- they want it." They want the, they want it now. They want the, the, the, the, the, um, the, the, the special squirrel. They-

Scott Galloway 55:15 If, if I had to bet-

Kara Swisher 55:16 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 55:17 ... it's even with Ellison's wealth down from where it was, he's, he's still, I think, now what is he, the second or third wealthiest person and the man-

Kara Swisher 55:25 He's, he's gonna get it, yeah.

Scott Galloway 55:26 I think his attitude is, "Why the fuck not?"

Kara Swisher 55:29 All in.

Scott Galloway 55:30 But, but here's the thing-

Kara Swisher 55:32 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 55:32 ... it all, this entire deal all comes down to one thing. How rich does Larry Ellison feel when David calls at the last, and says, "Okay, it's go time. We gotta put in our best foot, and this is what I think it takes to get this thing done." And he very mi- he very may well go, "You know, the reason I'm the w- the wealthiest man in the world is I have some discipline and some business acumen, and this is just too expensive. David, go, you know, go find other, just have fun at Paramount and go to the premiere of, you know, Land Man and enjoy yourself." Or he says, "You know what?"

Kara Swisher 56:04 "What the fuck?"

Scott Galloway 56:05 "What's another 10 billion-"

Kara Swisher 56:07 He's a what the fuck kind of guy. He really is.

Scott Galloway 56:09 "... on my 300-"

Kara Swisher 56:09 Remember when he made the Twitter thing? "Eh, want a billion? Whatever. Whatever."

Scott Galloway 56:13 Yeah, uh-

Kara Swisher 56:14 I think that's what he's like.

Scott Galloway 56:16 And these guys typically, when they get towards the end of their life... And, and quite frankly, I, I get it. You don't own money, you rent it. And when you're that old, and you're like, "Okay, why the fuck not?"

Kara Swisher 56:28 Why the fuck not?

Scott Galloway 56:29 So I, if I had to bet on anyone, it would be Larry going... The bankers call him and say at the end-

Kara Swisher 56:35 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 56:35 ... "All right, you're 24.50. At twen- at 27, it's a done deal."

Kara Swisher 56:40 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 56:40 I th- I think, I don't know-

Kara Swisher 56:42 He says yes.

Scott Galloway 56:42 I think Larry goes, "David, all right, fine. Go ahead. Yes, green light."

Kara Swisher 56:48 Green light.

Scott Galloway 56:48 Do it.

Kara Swisher 56:49 And we'll be able to get it through faster through the Trump process. We got Comcast so... Even though it gave money to that stupid ballroom, uh, he's disliked by Trump. And of course, there's the autocratic part.

Scott Galloway 56:57 Well, that's a really interesting point 'cause Zaslav, Zaslav could say to his shareholders, "But wait, Comcast was offering 50 cents more." He might be able to say, "We were not as confident-

Kara Swisher 57:06 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 57:07 ... or Netflix," they would be able to close.

Kara Swisher 57:08 Close, yeah. Yeah. But although I think Trump is quite distracted. I think I... If I were Comcast, I'd go for it. Just go for it. They, but they aren't like that. They aren't like that, and, and, and Larry Ellison is. That's the issue. By the way, last thing I'd say, nobody cares about the news part. None of them. None of them. I don't care what they say.

Scott Galloway 57:26 It's a problem.

Kara Swisher 57:27 What? Yeah.

Scott Galloway 57:27 It's a problem for them.

Kara Swisher 57:28 They don't care. Just... Everyone, like, at, at CNN or all the other places are like-

Scott Galloway 57:32 They-

Kara Swisher 57:32 ... "What do they think about us?" I go, "Not at all. Not at all."

Scott Galloway 57:35 But the problem, but the problem around Comcast, their market cap right now is $98 billion.

Kara Swisher 57:40 Mm-hmm. Yeah, too small.

Scott Galloway 57:41 This is like a bet-the-ranch-

Kara Swisher 57:43 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 57:43 ... freaking acq-

Kara Swisher 57:44 They're not bet-the-ranch people.

Scott Galloway 57:45 If they go for this, this is a... Unless they do a club deal and immediately sell shit off or partner with someone.

Kara Swisher 57:50 Yeah, they gotta do that.

Scott Galloway 57:50 I mean, keep in mind, right now, uh, Warner Brothers is at a $57 billion market cap with a $30 billion debt load. That's an enterprise of 87. It's not even really... If Comcast does this, it's more of a merger than an acquisition.

Kara Swisher 58:05 Yeah, it is. It is. And I, but I gotta say, they all do like to... I have such regard for Brian Roberts. I know he... And you know, he... It's interesting 'cause he's, in a weird way, you know, his dad gave him his company, right? Um, I, I... Two people I really, I think he did a lot with the assets his parents gave him, um, and I think Rupert Murdoch did. Those are the ones. And we'll s- uh, time will tell if David Ellison-

Scott Galloway 58:27 I-

Kara Swisher 58:27 ... is as smart of his father kind of thing.

Scott Galloway 58:29 I, I, just going back to MBS-

Kara Swisher 58:30 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 58:31 ... I personally believe-

Kara Swisher 58:32 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 58:33 ... like, at some point, I just wanna know... I mean, at some point, is it 20 years? Is it 50 years when reporters stop asking questions about the murder of Khashoggi? It'll be interesting to see. I, I think a more interesting question would have been, rumors are that David Ellison has approached Saudi sovereign and wealth funds about helping fund the acquisition of Warner Brothers Discovery. How do you feel about the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, uh, having direct influence over the largest news network in the world? (laughs)

Kara Swisher 59:04 Yeah, they can't. They can... That, they can't. That, to me, when I, I was-

Scott Galloway 59:07 But that's what they're talking about. Supposedly-

Kara Swisher 59:09 I know, but he can't do it.

Scott Galloway 59:09 ... Ellison's over there looking for financing.

Kara Swisher 59:10 He... That'll, that'll just, that'll be a problem. That'll be, I think that'll be a problem. They're gonna have to just use their own fucking money, and they've got plenty of it if they wanna do it. Um, but selling off... Uh, all I can tell you, all, all the people calling me from the news ar- they don't care. I don't give a shit.

Scott Galloway 59:24 I wonder what Kalisher and Polymarket are saying. I'd bet-

Kara Swisher 59:27 I don't know. Go look.

Scott Galloway 59:27 If I had to handicap it right now-

Kara Swisher 59:29 Right.

Scott Galloway 59:29 ... I'd put the Ellisons at like 60%.

Kara Swisher 59:31 Yeah, 60, unless Comcast decides-

Scott Galloway 59:33 Slash Paramount. Ellison slash Paramount.

Kara Swisher 59:35 ... wakes up and goes, "We're going for it." Anyway, interesting thing. Interesting, you know, these industries are not as big-

Scott Galloway 59:40 It's fun though. It's fun.

Kara Swisher 59:40 Yeah, it's fun speculation.

Scott Galloway 59:42 It's kinda fun to watch.

Kara Swisher 59:42 All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Support for this show comes from MS NOW. "We the people, in order to form a more perfect union." These words are more than just the opening of the Constitution. They're a reminder of who this country belongs to and what we can be at our best. They're also the cornerstone of MS NOW. Whether it's breaking news, exclusive reporting, election coverage, or in-depth analysis, MS NOW keeps the people at the heart of everything they do. Home to The Rachel Maddow Show, Morning Joe, The Briefing with Jen Psaki, and more voices you know and trust, MS NOW is your source for news, opinion, and the world. Their name is new, but you'll find the same commitment to justice, progress, and the truth you've relied on for decades. They'll continue to cover the day's news, ask tough questions, and explain how it impacts you. I really want these guys to win. Same mission, new name, MS NOW. Learn more at ms.now. Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction just for people to know. Um,

Kara Swisher 1:00:47 here, I'm gonna make a very brief one.

Scott Galloway 1:00:48 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 1:00:48 New York City mayor-elect Zoran Momdani is meeting with Trump at the White House when this airs on Friday. Um, I think they're gonna get along like peas and carrots. I don't know why I think that. I think ga- like, Tr- Trump has often, even though he insults Momdani, seems to think he did a good job at the campaign. Um, and, uh, and so, uh, I, I just, I just think it might go better than we think, but we'll see.

Scott Galloway 1:01:15 Uh, I think your instincts are absolutely right. I think it's in both of their interests. First off, uh, Trump is very looksist, and Momdani is a young, handsome man. He's very drawn to these young, handsome men. And Momdani, uh, Momdani will come out looking very... Momdani can come out and say, "I ha- I gave it to him," and he said... I think they're gonna come out and say, "While we had our differences, we're committed to getting along," and this is his native city. I think they both have mutually vested interests in coming across as statesmanlike.

Kara Swisher 1:01:46 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:01:47 Uh, so I agree with you. I don't think... Why would they invite him down only to then have more and-

Kara Swisher 1:01:53 They've done it.

Scott Galloway 1:01:53 ... antagonism and bullshit?

Kara Swisher 1:01:55 Zelensky. They could do it. It could happen. Like, if, if he, if... Here's, let me tell you, Momdani, don't get caught in a, on a couch with JD Vance. That's all. Just don't, he's too savvy.

Scott Galloway 1:02:05 Are they, are they planning to do a joint press re- or a joint-

Kara Swisher 1:02:07 I don't know, but you never know. Look, Gretchen Whitmer got sucked up into that. Like, he's gotta be very careful about where they sit him. That's, you know, they could be trying to like, "It's a trap," c- like from Star Wars. That's all I'm saying. Be very careful about how they present you and what they-

Scott Galloway 1:02:21 Huh.

Kara Swisher 1:02:21 ... 'cause they could pick a fight. That's the other opposite thing. They could pick a fight, a public fight with him.

Scott Galloway 1:02:26 (sighs) I gotta think someone in Trump's orbit's smart enough to go, "You know what? We're fighting a battle on a lot of fronts right now." (laughs)

Kara Swisher 1:02:31 This one's not a good one, and people like this fella. I, he, he, every time Trump insults him, he compliments him. It's really interesting-

Scott Galloway 1:02:38 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 1:02:38 ... 'cause he's like, "Hmm, mm-mm, I kinda like the cut of your jib even though you're a communist," kind of thing. Anyway, your prediction.

Scott Galloway 1:02:45 I really do think we're, we're on the precipice of a pretty significant shift in what I'll call the societal structure, control structure, wha- wha- the societal order. I think the vibe and the tone that will become increasingly apparent amongst these billion- uh, the, quote-unquote, these billionaires, across leaders, business leaders, I actually think the tone and the vibe is gonna have more impact than the crimes themselves. And I think we're gonna see a dramatic reconfiguration of, uh, uh, Congress's approach to tax policy and how, uh, I, I, I think this is a big moment, and I think, uh, I'm now increasingly believing that the Democrats are supposed to take back the House. I think they're gonna take it back viciously.

Kara Swisher 1:03:35 Viciously.

Scott Galloway 1:03:35 I think this is gonna feel like the Republican wave under Gingrich. Uh, I think this is gonna be pretty severe, and I think we're going to see ... And unfortunately, the cl- you know, the, the, whatever's, the chime or the pendulum on the clock is nev- you can never visually see it at exactly the median. I think we're gonna see, uh ... I don't think they'll go through, but I think you'll see proposals for wealth taxes similar to the ones that's been proposed in California. I think you're gonna see a dramatic shift back-

Kara Swisher 1:04:07 I would agree with you.

Scott Galloway 1:04:08 ... to progressives, because when you read these emails, you're like, "Wow, these guys, they really have become Marie Antoinette with, with, with, you know, with blazers."

Kara Swisher 1:04:19 They wear cashmere hoodies.

Scott Galloway 1:04:20 Whatever it is. Yeah, khakis.

Kara Swisher 1:04:22 Cashmere hoodies.

Scott Galloway 1:04:23 But this, I think the vibe of these emails is really unsettling, and I think it's, it's gonna, it's, it's gonna accelerate a decline or accelerate a pretty serious move to ... I don't, you know, call them progressive policies. Call them what you want. This is gonna, this is ... I think we're at a pretty pivotal moment, and it's more about the culture and the vibe than the specific crimes.

Kara Swisher 1:04:47 Yeah, I think what, I think what you're talking about. I don't ... Th- th- if, I think if Democrats were smart, they'd call it common sense and decency. Like, if they just kind of do that, it's such a c- ... 'Cause Trump seems not common sense and not de- and, and indecent. It just is a ... Anyway, that's my thing, like common sense and decency.

Scott Galloway 1:05:03 Hm.

Kara Swisher 1:05:04 Common sense and decency. I like that. I agree with you. It's a Marie ... You must have had some interesting dinners in Los Angeles. That's what it sounds like.

Scott Galloway 1:05:10 You'd be so proud of me. I-

Kara Swisher 1:05:11 What? What did you do?

Scott Galloway 1:05:12 We had this dinner.

Kara Swisher 1:05:13 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:05:14 They invited, uh, uh, Matt, one of these people we talk about all the time on this show, and they said w- it would be okay if we invited so-and-so and his girlfriend. I'm like, "No, I don't want to meet them."

Kara Swisher 1:05:25 Hm.

Scott Galloway 1:05:26 (laughs) I talk about them all the time, and I don't wanna meet them 'cause this is what happens. I meet them, and I like them-

Kara Swisher 1:05:31 You like them.

Scott Galloway 1:05:31 ... and I stop speaking in an unfiltered way.

Kara Swisher 1:05:33 Yeah. Good.

Scott Galloway 1:05:34 Um-

Kara Swisher 1:05:34 Can you tell me who that was?

Scott Galloway 1:05:36 Nope.

Kara Swisher 1:05:37 All right. You'll tell me later. Anyway, um, uh, uh, we wanna hear your questions. That's a really good ... That's a really interesting way you're going there, Scott. I like it. Um, send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot. Send a question for the show, call 855-51- PIVOT. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot, and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out.

Scott Galloway 1:06:02 Today's show was produced by Lara Naim and Tony Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and Ed engineered this episode. Manolo Moreno edited this video. Thanks also to Drew Beros, Mia Silverio, and Dan Chalon. Nishad Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. (upbeat music)