OpenAI Shares New Details About History with Elon Musk

1. 0:00 – 1:26

   Intro

   1. KSKara Swisher0:00

      OpenAI says it intends to move to dismiss all of Elon's Musk's recent legal claims. Uh, the company shared more about their mission and their relationship with Elon in a blog post on Tuesday, which included a number of old emails. I love that they used them. I used some in my book of his so you could understand what happened. According to OpenAI, they decided, uh, with Elon in late 2017 that the next step for the company was to create a for-profit entity, and he... it seems like he did agree. Elon wanted ma- but he wanted majority equity, initial board control, and to be CEO. What a fucking narcissist this guy is. He also withheld... He did give money to them, but he wanted everything for that. He also withheld fund- funding, uh, money during these discussions. Of course, they turned to, guess what, Reid Hoffman. There's other rich people, Elon. There's other rich people who think AI is cool. Uh, OpenAI is coming out swinging with this post. Uh, The Wall Street Journal has a piece on how Elon's Sam bromance turned toxic, uh, which, uh, we've talked about. I've known about this for a long time. Um, I don't kn- I don't know if he's... He's gonna move forward with the suit, but these letters are kind of, um, interesting. Um, also OpenAI is also on the PR move. OpenAI, Google, Meta, and 300 others signed an open letter this week pledging to build AI for a better future. This letter mentions a collective responsibility to maximize AI's benefit and limit the risks. Sam Altman posted about it on X, saying he was excited for the spirit of this letter. And, you know, it's a, it's a PR thing, of course. Um, so first, uh, uh, we'll get to that, but what do you think about, uh, their, their thing? Did you read their blog post?

2. 1:26 – 3:37

   OpenAI Blog Post

   1. KSKara Swisher1:26

   2. SGScott Galloway1:26

      I love it. I think that they're... I mean, for all the, for all the criticism, warranted criticism, that Jack Dorsey got, I actually thought his board, led by Bret Taylor, literally just dissected, picked apart, and m- just, just absolutely, um, drawed and quartered, uh, all of Elon's arguments in thoughtful, measured ways-

   3. KSKara Swisher1:46

      Mm-hmm.

   4. SGScott Galloway1:46

      ... when he was trying to back out of an agreement that he, that he-

   5. KSKara Swisher1:49

      Yeah. Mm-hmm.

   6. SGScott Galloway1:49

      ... contractually signed, uh, left, right, when he realized he'd overpaid for the thing in a fit of mania.

   7. KSKara Swisher1:54

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SGScott Galloway1:54

      So I think it's, uh, uh, I, I loved it. I mean, it's great reading. It's just like, okay, let's be clear. You gave us some money. You then wanted to be the CEO. You wanted to be the majority shareholder.

   9. KSKara Swisher2:06

      Mm-hmm.

   10. SGScott Galloway2:07

       And it's clear you weren't doing this for humanity, you were doing it for control and wealth.

   11. KSKara Swisher2:11

       Mm-hmm. That's correct.

   12. SGScott Galloway2:12

       And we said no-

   13. KSKara Swisher2:13

       Yeah.

   14. SGScott Galloway2:13

       ... and found better options. Oh, and by the way, it worked out really well for us and our shareholders, just FYI.

   15. KSKara Swisher2:19

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SGScott Galloway2:19

       It looks as if this company, without the benefit of your genius, has done really well. (laughs)

   17. KSKara Swisher2:26

       Right.

   18. SGScott Galloway2:26

       And, uh, I mean, it's just, uh, i- i- it's so obvious what's going on here, and I find it em- I f- I'm shocked he's not more embarrassed, but we live in an economy now-

   19. KSKara Swisher2:36

       He's-

   20. SGScott Galloway2:36

       ... and in a society where it's like, just get attention. Oh wait-

   21. KSKara Swisher2:40

       Mm-hmm.

   22. SGScott Galloway2:40

       ... should I weigh in on the Disney proxy battle? No, I shouldn't.

   23. KSKara Swisher2:43

       Right. Immi- immigrants.

   24. SGScott Galloway2:43

       I have no domain expertise here.

   25. KSKara Swisher2:45

       This immigration stuff is so heinous this week, but go ahead.

   26. SGScott Galloway2:48

       And it doesn't even matter, uh, and it's unfortunate 'cause it's our fault. It doesn't even matter how heinous or stupid or irrational my take is-

   27. KSKara Swisher2:56

       Mm-hmm.

   28. SGScott Galloway2:56

       ... as long as I'm in the news.

   29. KSKara Swisher2:57

       Yeah.

   30. SGScott Galloway2:57

       As long as I'm in the news, and that's where we are. We're in an attention economy. It doesn't, doesn't matter why you're in the news, just as long as you're in the news. And this guy is literally massively addicted to attention, and-
3. 3:37 – 5:10

   Elons Mistake

   1. KSKara Swisher3:37

      I agree. I think what, what you miss about someone like Altman and the people around him... And I, uh, I w- I think they're gonna announce this spectacular board. I'm hearing all kinds of different names they're talking to. Uh, I think they're gonna announce this spectacular par- m- you know, even-handed board, uh, that's full of stars. Um, I think this has been a huge mistake on Elon's part. And interestingly on Threads, D- uh, Dustin Moskovitz, who was one of the early Facebook people, is essentially saying, "Tech people, let's, let's get together and start te- telling people Elon's a fuck," essentially. This is bullshit what he's doing, and he's ruining the brand tech by doing this. And these guys, let me just tell you, they're just, they're just like him in the ways they fight back. They don't roll over. And so this was a not roll over thing. And I agree, Bret Taylor did it effectively qu- more quietly. Sam is more aggressive. He's more, um, uh, a- and the group he's around, they're, they're like... They know him, right? And they're gonna come at him. And showing his greed, which is what this was essentially, was perfect 'cause he, he tries to, uh, to, uh, virtue signal about how he cares about humanity. Um, and, uh, you know, and then they sign the letter, which look, it's just whatever. Uh, I just... The pledge doesn't, uh, have them to anything, but it gives them another like, "Yes we do. Look, we're signing with everybody." Um, I think it's just fine to do that. Um, it doesn't, it doesn't... It's just a good move. The two things together are obviously linked. Um, well done, I have to say. I'm excited to talk to Sam about it, and I was, I was worried he d- he would say nothing, but I feel like he's gonna say a lot about it on stage, uh, himself, so, uh, we'll see.

4. 5:10 – 6:48

   AI Development

   1. KSKara Swisher5:10

      On AI development, Anthropic just released Claude 3, it's latest-

   2. SGScott Galloway5:13

      Mm-hmm.

   3. KSKara Swisher5:13

      ... group of AI models. The company says its most advanced model, uh, exhibits near human levels of comprehension and fluency. Uh, this is... This... Anthropic has, um, a, uh, uh, investment from an- from Amazon-

   4. SGScott Galloway5:26

      Mm-hmm.

   5. KSKara Swisher5:26

      ... uh, obviously. Um, we're also hearing about this interesting company, Perplexity. Several people have asked me to meet the CEO, uh, looking to challenge Google's dominance in web search.

   6. SGScott Galloway5:35

      Mm-hmm.

   7. KSKara Swisher5:35

      Kind of interesting. It just, uh, finalized a new funding deal around a billion dollar valuation. Um, really interesting company. I'm gonna meet with the CEO. Um, uh, you know, it's an interesting time 'cause even though these are all big players and you'd like to see... M- not Perplexity, but, um, these are well-funded players. It is-

   8. SGScott Galloway5:53

      Mm-hmm.

   9. KSKara Swisher5:53

      ... really interesting to see this level of competition in the area. Uh, again, I still think that the government needs to be part of this, um, and, and that, that, that we shouldn't h- not have... Uh, w- they can virtue signal all they want about, uh, this kind of thing, but we definitely need the government involved too. I, um-I just heard from Senator Klobuchar that the Appropriations Committee stole, basically, an extra $45 million that was supposed to go to the antitrust da- DOJ. This was them adding to merger fees that actually passed, and they're trying to- to- to claw it back from the Justice Department, um, for their... And they're in the midst of all these antitrust cases. Um, but I- I- I find that offensive, that this was money to be used to help the government in certain areas, um, which they d- dearly needed. And so the only piece missing here is government involvement too on a- on- in a smart way. So, that's what I would say. Thoughts?

5. 6:48 – 11:21

   Why Elon Bought Shares

   1. KSKara Swisher6:48

   2. SGScott Galloway6:48

      Um, so, a lot there. So, um, uh, someone called me and offered me in the secondary market shares in Anthropic at a valuation of, I think, 18 billion, which is... They're raising money, and it's just so crazy, um, that valuation based on their metrics. But it's... I- I don't know, I'm kind of tempted. And actually-

   3. KSKara Swisher7:08

      Do it.

   4. SGScott Galloway7:08

      ... the reason... I think I told you this. I've been buying, or started buying about e- no, six, nine months ago, um, claims against a bankrupt FTX. So, you buy-

   5. KSKara Swisher7:19

      Yeah.

   6. SGScott Galloway7:19

      ... them from the creditors.

   7. KSKara Swisher7:20

      You said that, yeah. Mm-hmm.

   8. SGScott Galloway7:20

      And my total motivation for buying them was I read in the bankruptcy filing-

   9. KSKara Swisher7:25

      Anthropic.

   10. SGScott Galloway7:25

       ... that they owned 8% of Anthropic.

   11. KSKara Swisher7:28

       Mm-hmm.

   12. SGScott Galloway7:28

       And I thought, "Well, that company is worth probably..." I thought... I- I-

   13. KSKara Swisher7:32

       Yeah.

   14. SGScott Galloway7:32

       ... I pegged it higher than that. I thought that if OpenAI is worth 95 billion, this company's probably worth 30 or 40. So, I thought-

   15. KSKara Swisher7:38

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SGScott Galloway7:38

       ... there are eight or nine million, um, e- eight or nine billion-

   17. KSKara Swisher7:41

       Smart.

   18. SGScott Galloway7:41

       ... in claims against a bankrupt FTX.

   19. KSKara Swisher7:43

       Yeah.

   20. SGScott Galloway7:43

       And I think their stake, the way I did the math, was their stake in, um... Their stake in Anthropic is worth two to three billion, or you're gonna get 30 cents on the dollar just from their Anthropic stake. And anything else they recover is gravy, because when I started buying, I was buying at 23 cents on the dollar. A- anyways, that... My motivation for buying (laughs) bankrupt claims against, uh, FTX was Anthropic, or specifically FTX's stake in Anthropic. Anyway, I... Because I'm hanging out with you, and you and Ham- Tammy Haddad took me to the White House, I've gotten some calls from the White House who are working on AI. And, um, they've been asking for advice around individuals and- and their approach to it. And what I said is, "Look, the thing you got to keep in mind (laughs) is whenever you're speaking to a Jensen Huang or a Sam Altman, they're very thoughtful guys."

   21. KSKara Swisher8:34

       100%.

   22. SGScott Galloway8:34

       "Absolutely speak to them, but keep in mind, their objective and their frame around everything."

   23. KSKara Swisher8:41

       Mm-hmm.

   24. SGScott Galloway8:41

       Jensen Huang is going to find really rational, compelling reasons why he should be allowed to sell sophistica- sophisticated AI chips to China. S- Sam is going to argue for... You know, in very thoughtful, hushed tones-

   25. KSKara Swisher8:56

       Mm-hmm.

   26. SGScott Galloway8:56

       ... talk about, "Well, we have to be considerate."

   27. KSKara Swisher8:58

       Sure.

   28. SGScott Galloway8:58

       But he's gonna-

   29. KSKara Swisher8:59

       Self-interested, we know this.

   30. SGScott Galloway8:59

       Yeah, uh, y- you have to get people on this board and advising you-

Episode duration: 11:22