RFK Jr. Goes Feral in Combative CNN Interview. Kara Swisher: “He Seemed Insane” | Pivot

1. 0:00 – 0:30

   Intro

   1. KSKara Swisher0:00

      His brand is measles, raw milk, and rabid raccoons.

   2. SGScott Galloway0:03

      No, you forgot exploding diarrhea.

   3. KSKara Swisher0:06

      [upbeat music] Hi, everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

   4. SGScott Galloway0:16

      And I'm Scott Galloway. Do you think people were tuning in today hoping to get someone else?

   5. KSKara Swisher0:20

      [laughs] No. It's not Scott free-

   6. SGScott Galloway0:22

      Is everyone like, "Oh, fuck, I thought he was gone"? [chuckles]

   7. KSKara Swisher0:23

      I know. You thought it was Scott free August, but he wanted to stay an extra day. You did, didn't you?

   8. SGScott Galloway0:27

      Oh, yeah, that's what happened here.

   9. KSKara Swisher0:28

      Yeah. Did you catch Dana Bash's

2. 0:30 – 11:30

   RFK Jr.’s CNN Clash

   1. KSKara Swisher0:30

      interview with RFK Jr. on Sunday? I mean, let's listen to an exchange about childhood vaccines and autism in which he sounded like a rabid raccoon.

   2. SPSpeaker0:40

      All your autistic children-

   3. SPSpeaker0:40

      Are you also trying to find out how it interacts with people's DNA, what's predisposed to, uh, to, to have an autistic child?

   4. SPSpeaker0:49

      [laughs]

   5. SPSpeaker0:49

      Are you doing both?

   6. SPSpeaker0:50

      Yeah, but, but, uh, Dana, you probably don't understand this because you're not a scientist, but genes don't cause-

   7. SPSpeaker0:55

      Well, you're not either

   8. SPSpeaker0:56

      ... genes don't cause epidemics.

   9. SPSpeaker0:58

      I understand. Genes, epidemics.

   10. SPSpeaker1:01

       They can provide a vulnerability, but they-

   11. SPSpeaker1:02

       A g- a gene provides-

   12. SPSpeaker1:04

       But you need an environmental exposure

   13. SPSpeaker1:04

       ... an environmental. That's what I'm asking. Are you studying the environmental exposure?

   14. SPSpeaker1:07

       We, um, we're looking at all the different environmental exposures. But your statement, you have been fooled. Your statement that this has been studied is not true.

   15. KSKara Swisher1:16

       He's lying there. It was full of errors. He was crazy. He was also aggressive physically, I thought. I thought Dana handled it beautifully. He seemed insane. Um, thoughts?

   16. SGScott Galloway1:26

       If Fox News can, can literally pollute, litter, defecate all over the cabinet, then my attitude is, okay, l-let's go to cable news. We get to know them, we get to see their intellect. I thought that in the last week, uh, Kaitlan Collins, Dana Bash, and Margaret Brennan demonstrated a skill. I think a lot about this. I do not have this skill. I, I really don't. And then people don't realize what an incredible skill it is, and that is in a impromptu ad, you know, sort of ad hoc, audible, quick-on-your-feet way to push back in a forceful yet dignified way. I mean, these, these three women, they, they put on a master class because-

   17. KSKara Swisher2:17

       I would agree

   18. SGScott Galloway2:18

       ... it, uh, uh, and I'll come back to his comments. I mean, no surprise, he's full of conspiracy s- theory, has absolutely no scientific background. But the thing that struck me was just how adept at the aplomb... You know, people are shit posting that cable news doesn't matter anymore. Some of the most talented people in media are still in those seats.

   19. KSKara Swisher2:39

       Yeah, this is import- this was an important interview.

   20. SGScott Galloway2:41

       The way that D-Dana was able to forcefully push back but not be disrespectful, and also what Margaret was able to do with that village idiot that said, uh, the, the accusations against, against, uh-

   21. KSKara Swisher2:54

       Max Miller

   22. SGScott Galloway2:55

       ... Max Miller shouldn't be fodder for media. It's like, oh, bitch. The media talks about every elected official-

   23. KSKara Swisher3:02

       Correct. Right

   24. SGScott Galloway3:02

       ... that has [chuckles] accusations like this.

   25. KSKara Swisher3:04

       Right. Mm-hmm.

   26. SGScott Galloway3:04

       I mean, that was just such weak sauce.

   27. KSKara Swisher3:06

       Yeah, she did a great job.

   28. SGScott Galloway3:06

       And she was able to say just very quietly and elegantly or softly and elegant, "Well, actually, we cover these stories from both political parties all of the time."

   29. KSKara Swisher3:14

       Right. They just did Graham Platner.

   30. SGScott Galloway3:16

       But I thought Dana was outstanding. And the, and the moment that stuck out to me, and I'll turn it back to you, was when he raised his f-fingers for finger quotes and then said, "The experts." And it's like, well, okay, who are we supposed to trust? Of course, we trust experts. Expert means you have certification, you've done the diligence, you have the domain expertise, and perhaps you've devoted your life to not only trying to... Uh, uh, okay, it's arrogant to say they have the right answers, but they have the least wrong answers of anyone because-
3. 11:30 – 24:04

   Big Tech Earnings

   1. KSKara Swisher11:30

      Alphabet, Amazon, and Microsoft added a combined one point five trillion in value following Q2 earnings. Of note, Amazon sales totaled over eight hundred and eighty billion, uh, up from 13% a year earlier, and Meta's profit was down 14% from the previous year as the company's CapEx forecast for the year increased to $130 billion. We're recording ahead of SpaceX's earnings on Tuesday. Speaking of SpaceX, Tesla executives reportedly have been told to prepare to separate the company's China business ahead of a potential merger with SpaceX, which I predicted here. Elon dismissed the report as fake news, which means it's true. Um, so talk a little bit about any predictions on SpaceX earnings. And you're gonna be on vacation, so give us a guess at what the stock price is when you return. So let's start with Alphabet, Amazon, and Microsoft.

   2. SGScott Galloway12:16

      These companies are just incredibly well-run and continue to I mean, the, the, I, I, as someone who loves earnings reports, and I read these things, and I'm just sort of like, uh, consistently blown away. Uh, Amazon AWS sales jumped 37%. That's its fastest growth since 2021, blowing past the 31% consensus. Total revenue crossed $200 billion for the first time in a single quarter. Net income, get this, Kara, surged 245%.

   3. KSKara Swisher12:43

      Yeah. Amazing.

   4. SGScott Galloway12:44

      Now, most of that or some, a lot of that is from... These firms have become now tracking stocks for, for, um, their investments or for some, for AI, because $53 billion of, uh, of that was from an Anthropic investment gain.

   5. KSKara Swisher12:58

      Yeah.

   6. SGScott Galloway12:59

      Jassy raised CapEx guidance to-

   7. KSKara Swisher13:00

      Investment gain, so couldn't, could not be, possibly not real eventually. But go ahead.

   8. SGScott Galloway13:04

      Well, not recurring.

   9. KSKara Swisher13:05

      Or, or it's Alibaba, right?

   10. SGScott Galloway13:07

       Not, not, not structural.

   11. KSKara Swisher13:07

       Right.

   12. SGScott Galloway13:07

       Unless they continue to be great VCs to get a... They would argue we're gonna continue to have access to these types of investments, but they're not VCs. This isn't a business they're in, so the market typically discounts these types of one-time gains. Jassy raised CapEx guidance to $220 billion. Uh, like, uh, and their stock was up, Amazon stock was up dramatically. Meta revenue reached $60 billion, up 28%. Uh, their e- their EPS, uh, missed estimates by 14%, be- my guess is because they keep increasing CapEx as they're now-

   13. KSKara Swisher13:38

       He's doubling. He is making a bet.

   14. SGScott Galloway13:40

       Yeah, they're fully in this AI, uh, capital war. Um, uh, he confirmed that Meta's fielding buyout offers for its compute, hinting at an eventual cloud business and infrastructure business. I think this is a b- really big story, and that is everyone's moving from the front end to providing infrastructure. I wonder if it's flipping. Analysts called the AI monetization answers vague, even as CapEx guidance rose, and shares tumbled as much as 11%. So this really was a tale of two cities. Microsoft revenue hit $90 billion, up 18%.

   15. KSKara Swisher14:11

       Incredible.

   16. SGScott Galloway14:12

       While EPS was a beat. Uh, uh, Azure passed $100 billion in annual revenue, growing 43%. Copilot seats doubled sequentially to over 30 million, up from 20 million. The thing that's interesting there is that I work for an investor in a company called Section that helps companies upskill their AI, and the general consensus among companies is that Copilot is probably the weakest of the AI products. And yet what people don't realize is when you have a recurring revenue relationship and salespeople and someone saying, "You know what?"

   17. KSKara Swisher14:43

       Enhanced feature, yeah. This is great.

   18. SGScott Galloway14:44

       "You may not... We may not have the best frontier model, but guess what?"

   19. KSKara Swisher14:48

       Useful.

   20. SGScott Galloway14:49

       "Uh, you have a recurring revenue relationship with us. It integrates into your workflow, and also we're very security-minded. Do you really wanna take a chance on this new AI?" It's not the best model. [laughs]

   21. KSKara Swisher15:00

       Yeah.

   22. SGScott Galloway15:00

       It's the company-

   23. KSKara Swisher15:00

       Well, that's what they do with everything. That was Explorer.

   24. SGScott Galloway15:02

       100%.

   25. KSKara Swisher15:02

       That was-

   26. SGScott Galloway15:03

       That's Microsoft, right?

   27. KSKara Swisher15:04

       That's their... That's Microsoft. It's good. It's good enough. You know, good enough was always the Microsoft thing, and they, they are actually. I'm finding I use Alphabet search for a lot of AI s- answers, like...

   28. SGScott Galloway15:15

       Their CapEx guidance dropped, uh, a bit. Their commercial backlog climbed 84% to $680 billion. The only, the only thing here, but this again speaks to how smart they are investing in the growth areas of technology, their legacy products are eroding, as Windows devices fell 7% and Xbox content dropped 10%.

   29. KSKara Swisher15:34

       Oh, yeah, that's really troubled. We should get into that when you come back, that story.

   30. SGScott Galloway15:36

       But these companies, imagine, imagine if you're a cable company and you had, uh... So their legacy products are struggling with the same thing that most media companies' legacy products. But the thing is, Warner Brothers Discovery or, or, or, you know, name the company Paramount, they also don't have TikTok or Instagram Reels. These companies early recognized that some of their legacy assets are declining, and where they're so brilliant is they take that cash flow, and they invest really adeptly, adeptly in the future. I mean, these companies, it's just crazy how well... And then finally, Apple revenue hit $109 billion, up 16%, with i- iPhone sales climbing 22% to $54 billion.
4. 24:04 – 32:37

   Cyber Chaos

   1. KSKara Swisher24:04

      we're back. It's being called cybersecurity's Jurassic Park moment, which is kind of frightening, and not the good part of the movie. Anthropic says that its models hacked into three outside companies during testing. The news comes just days after OpenAI revealed one of its AI agents escaped a test environment and hacked a startup, Hugging Face. The hacks are increasing pressure on the White House to address AI security. Trump signed an executive order in June asking AI companies to voluntarily submit their most powerful models for government testing before releasing them publicly. But there's still no real AI regulation from the administration or Congress. What a surprise. This cyber chaos era is really, I think, problematic and, and dangerous given the lack of AI regulation. And speaking of cyberattacks, something that Nicole Perlroth told me in a recent interview that what was gonna happen, federal authorities are warning critical US infrastructure could be at risk after seven states reported cyberattacks on water and wastewater system, which is precisely what she predicted. The warning comes after US officials say Iran was likely behind the coordinated cyberattack on water systems in Minnesota. Trump is blaming Minnesota Governor Tim Walz for that, saying Iran has bigger problems than worrying about Minnesota. I don't even know what he's talking about. Um, talk a little bit about this because they really, these things are jumping out of sandboxes 'cause that's their job, to jump out of sandboxes, right? If you're gonna be a hacker, if you tell it to hack, it'll hack. Um, I think a lot of people are really under, underreporting this story, these, these attacks. 'Cause with AI, you really can. It's not just Iran. It could be just anyone. It could be, it could be Spencer Pratt attacking Minnesota, you know, with these tools.

   2. SGScott Galloway25:36

      You used the correct term. This is more Jurassic Park than Terminator or Skynet because someone left the gate open, and that is-

   3. KSKara Swisher25:43

      But they purposely did, right? No, they didn't. They got out. They jumped out.

   4. SGScott Galloway25:48

      But someone, someone in my understanding is, gave the, the AI directions on how to go get this. It just, they were shocked by how creative and ambitious it was.

   5. KSKara Swisher25:58

      Right. Right. Right.

   6. SGScott Galloway25:59

      And so it's more, I think this is a story of competence, not sentience.

   7. KSKara Swisher26:04

      Okay.

   8. SGScott Galloway26:05

      This is why we need regulation. If you were to, if you were to have AI, um, basically say, uh, uh, the moment you perceive an existential threat, launch our, our birds, our missiles, you have to have a person somewhere in there, or you have to have an AI that says, "Okay, uh, any kind of existential threat to humanity that results in the harming of anybody or economic harm or doing anything illegal needs to send up red flags that notify a regulatory body, the, the executive." Uh, uh, so what I don't get is I, I think this is super interesting, that these things might... It's like, uh, the, the thing I thought of, and this is a weird analogy, but there were, there were Japanese soldiers in the hills of the Philippines 20 years after the war ended, who used to come down and terrorize the villages and shoot at perceived enemies because they had orders. They were sent in the hills towards the end of the war, and they were s- They said, "Go into the hills. We have to withdraw because we're getting beaten, but terrorize the fucking village and Americans and the enemy." And 20 years later, these individuals, they were part of the Imperial Army, they were still following their orders. Tw- And they actually, I thought this was such an interesting story. In one case, they had to find the commanding officer, this is like, I think in the '50s or '60s, to, and then transport the commanding officer to the hill where they think this guy was hanging out and start yelling, "I'm, you know, Major or General Takeshito. Come down. You are relieved of your duty." And th-that was the analogy. I thought these AIs are taking their orders very seriously, but someone did give it the order. And where I go is the same place, and that is, you wouldn't sell... If this, this, if this technology, according to the, the leaders of these firms, is more powerful than nuclear bombs, well, you wouldn't let Oppenheimer sell these bombs into Procter & Gamble.

   9. KSKara Swisher28:07

      Right. No, I agree. I think just-

   10. SGScott Galloway28:08

       So we need, we need a thick layer of, of friction and, uh, uh, let me use the R word, regulation. That doesn't mean... And by the way, folks, good regulation is good for industries. It, uh, they know what rules they're playing by. It, it, it shields them from frivolous lawsuits. I think, I think we're getting to the point with these guys where they're actually pretty sincere in saying, "Let's figure out a way that we don't just ruin it for all of us, and let's figure out..." Uh, again, 60-day waiting period on any new product to battle te- test the shit out of it. Give it, start asking it, "Hey, is there any way you can figure out a super virus?" And see what happens. [chuckles]

   11. KSKara Swisher28:49

       Exactly. I mean, one of the things that, um, [chuckles] that's, uh, gain-of-function testing. It was a little bit disturbing, actually. Um, o-one of the things that strikes me every time, because I've interviewed dozens of people who's, who exactly explain what could happen. Like, uh, they're like, "This could happen. This could happen," et cetera. Every time that one of these stories breaks, these companies are shocked it jumped. And I'm always like, "What are you..." It's like your, your kid, like, your kid is a troublemaker, and you're shocked? Like, it's sort of like me saying, "I'm shocked that, that Saul found the Starbursts hidden in my drawer." Like, I just am not shocked. I know he will. He's a very inventive kid. Um, it just is. He wants the Starburst, right? It just, it's, that to me is the, like... And it, since they're shocked, why don't we just make the rules for them? Like, since we're not shocked that this is what happens. And, you know, the fact that, uh, uh, I mean, the Trump administration has been one big giveaway to the AI industry in a way that's now veering on dangerous as far as I'm concerned. Um-

   12. SGScott Galloway29:47

       I'm curious though, you speak to more, and I'm gonna use air quotes, "experts," as in they're actual experts.

   13. KSKara Swisher29:53

       Experts like Nicole, yes, experts who know what they're talking about.

   14. SGScott Galloway29:56

       Yeah.

   15. KSKara Swisher29:57

       RFK.

   16. SGScott Galloway29:58

       And you know how I feel. I, I tend to think some of this catastrophizing is a fundraising strategy. But what, w-what have the people you've talked to about this, this, this Hugging Bear, uh- Jumping the lab

   17. KSKara Swisher30:10

       Disturbed

   18. SGScott Galloway30:10

       What do they think about... W- what have they said about it? Is this the threat that people are worried about?

   19. KSKara Swisher30:15

       Th- they feel as if they, they are not correctly anticipating the problems.

   20. SGScott Galloway30:20

       Right.

   21. KSKara Swisher30:20

       It's sort of like, okay, if you put a knife on the steering wheel, maybe if there's an accident, someone's gonna be knifed.

   22. SGScott Galloway30:26

       Knife on a steering wheel, that's good.

   23. KSKara Swisher30:28

       One of the jobs I was gonna do if I worked for the government, if I had gotten in, but I'm gay, um, was anticipatory stuff

   24. SGScott Galloway30:35

       Senna.

   25. KSKara Swisher30:36

       Sen- [laughs] Yes, I know Senna

   26. SGScott Galloway30:37

       Sorry

   27. KSKara Swisher30:37

       Senna, um, was anticipation of stuff like this, like really true anticipation. Like, okay, here's the... You know, I love... Remember the movie Three Days of the Condor? That's what he did. That's why he got-

   28. SGScott Galloway30:48

       Oh, my God, Robert Redford and the most beautiful wo-

   29. KSKara Swisher30:49

       Love him

   30. SGScott Galloway30:49

       One of the most beautiful women of the 20th century. Who am I talking about?
5. 32:37 – 43:56

   Elon’s Midterm Spending

   1. KSKara Swisher32:37

      to another story. Elon Musk is diving into politics despite recently telling The Economist he got too involved before. Now he's authorizing his super PAC to spend between 100 and 200, 120 million to help GOP in the midterms. He's already spent a lot. Elon's PAC has reportedly planned on spending on House races in states including California, Wisconsin, and Washington. It's also targeting key Senate races in Alaska, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, and Ohio. Troy Jackson, the Democratic Senate candidate who's running against Susan Collins in Maine, uh, released an ad about Elon's spending. He usually talks about him being a logger and being a man of the people, but let's listen to this ad that he put out this weekend.

   2. SPSpeaker33:14

      And here's why he's spending $100 million across these states, because he wants to have people that are totally beholden to him and Donald Trump, making sure that we're getting tax cuts for billionaires on the back of our healthcare system, on the back of our hospitals. That's what Elon Musk wants. He doesn't care about us, really doesn't care about Susan. He cares about him. So I, I would say, and to you, Elon, Maine and really the whole United States doesn't want your dirty money in our politics. Y- you know, you, you don't get to buy the government that you want. This is about all of us coming together and fighting for the government that we deserve, and you're not in it.

   3. KSKara Swisher33:52

      Ah, you're not in it. Oh, I love dirty politics. Um, Elon lost in Wisconsin. He spent $25 million there. I think this is a very effective ad, and he also sounds like he's about to go fell a tree at any moment.

   4. SGScott Galloway34:04

      The silver lining here is that it appears that money is showing a, a lesser and lesser return on, on electoral politics. And some of these PACs, I wonder if at some point if attaching Musk money to a candidate begins to hurt them. Like, I don't know if you've seen what going, what's going on. If I were a candidate, distinct of your values, I wouldn't take money from AIPAC right now. I think it has become such a toxic brand, AIPAC, whether you-

   5. KSKara Swisher34:30

      So, and billionaires have, too. Elon knows

   6. SGScott Galloway34:31

      ... whether you agree with them or not. But I wonder if at some point... I mean, the, the example I keep going back to, Tom Steyer, who I thought was a reasonable candidate. Tom is not a bad person. I don't care what you think about-

   7. KSKara Swisher34:44

      No, my son liked him. My son liked him

   8. SGScott Galloway34:45

      I, yeah, I don't care what you think about his politics. He's a, he's a... I think, I think it's hard to ar- argue he's not a good man with his heart in the right place, cares about the environment, understands business. He spent a quarter of a billion dollars, and he came in third place. Um, and you know, it ended up he'd hired influencers, and they think that that's some sort of controversy. I'm like, "Welcome to politics, folks."

   9. KSKara Swisher35:05

      I know. That, that was stupid. Yeah.

   10. SGScott Galloway35:07

       Uh, but I would, I think, I'm wondering how, how many of them with money are doing the same thing. Anyways, it's Citizens United, so broken record here. Okay, uh, if, i- i- the problem isn't that people... Well, the problem is [laughs] that people can spend money on politics. The problem is we have so much in- income inequality and so much concentration of wealth, which equates to power in a capitalist society. Are we comfortable? He, he could spend 15 billion, and it wouldn't mean anything to him. Are we that comfortable? I mean, we have our billionaires. We have, you know, George Soros or whoever on the left. But at some point, when you have someone who could say if they get emotional or pissed off or really high one night and think, "You know what? I think I'm gonna spend $10 billion," are we comfortable with that? I'm not as freaked out about this. The Economist did a great article on this, and it said that money in politics is having less impact than reported, which I think is really interesting. Uh, what are your thoughts?

   11. KSKara Swisher36:05

       It could be. I, I, I think it... I'm just curious what you think. I'm gonna let Scott talk more this episode, 'cause I think this is actually right. And is this an effective ad to attack Elon? I think it is. I think it worked in Wisconsin. I think the people of Wisconsin are not unlike the people of Maine. I don't think they like it. He also sort of just dismisses Susan. He doesn't really care about Susan. She's hardly matters here. He's just buying his way into our government. And the two things that I thought were effective here were, "Doesn't want your dirty money in our politics," which I love. I thought that was beautifully said. [laughs] And then, "This is about the government we deserve, and you're not in it." There was a little bit of, "You're not from here, are you, fella?" Like that kind of thing. Like, I thought it was quite effective. In this state, I think it probably is.

   12. SGScott Galloway36:49

       If you rob a bank, there's typically within the money or there's a, a, a bomb that goes off and sprays you with indelible ink. I think th- these people are trying to put a bomb of indelible ink around certain types of money.

   13. KSKara Swisher37:06

       Yeah.

   14. SGScott Galloway37:06

       That-

   15. KSKara Swisher37:06

       And do you think it's effective, uh, this, this particular message-

   16. SGScott Galloway37:08

       Well, uh, the-

   17. KSKara Swisher37:09

       ... Troy?

   18. SGScott Galloway37:10

       Look what's happening with AIPAC. In the Michigan Democratic Senate primary, the attack line against, oh, God, I'm, I'm blanking on her name.

   19. KSKara Swisher37:18

       Haley Stevens.

   20. SGScott Galloway37:18

       Well, an attack line is, "You've taken AIPAC money."

   21. KSKara Swisher37:21

       Yeah. Yeah, it's been effective.

   22. SGScott Galloway37:22

       I wonder if it's about to become, "You've taken Musk money."

   23. KSKara Swisher37:25

       Yeah.

   24. SGScott Galloway37:25

       And that's what they're trying to do here. They're trying to, they're trying to, they're trying to nest inside of this money from him-

   25. KSKara Swisher37:32

       Mm-hmm

   26. SGScott Galloway37:32

       ... with a, a, a paint bomb.

   27. KSKara Swisher37:35

       Yeah, I think it's effective.

   28. SGScott Galloway37:36

       And I actually think it's quite effective.

   29. KSKara Swisher37:36

       And you don't have to be... You know, Alex votes in Michigan. I, I know, he mentioned it to me. He's like, "What the heck? Why is all this AIPAC money here?" Um, and I have to say, you know, and, you know, it's interesting 'cause some money works. Like, Louie really liked Tom Ste- I don't know how, I don't know how either of them voted, but he, he's certainly not averse to Al Said, and Alex is more conservative, I would say, than Louie. Louie's like DSA, essentially. Um, but, um, uh, but d- Louie was attracted to Tom Steyer, and he's California.

   30. SGScott Galloway38:04

       That's because it's your egg, right?
6. 43:56 – 52:56

   Reflecting Pool Feud

   1. KSKara Swisher43:56

      Trump administration is now feuding with itself over the Lincoln Memorial reflecting [chuckles] pool, my favorite story of the year. US Attorney Jeanine Pirro is in the hot seat after dropping the vandalism case against former Olympian. Uh, she also has called out the damage as a result of a botched installation. She had to tell the truth when it came to court, as it turns out. This didn't sit well with Trump, who said he disagrees 100% with Jeanine Pirro, and noting that there, uh, may have been a contractor difficulty, but major damage was caused by vandals, of which there is zero proof. And Interior Secretary Doug Burgum, who is like the definition of a suck-up, is trying to stay in Trump's good graces, saying he gave the US attorney expert and eyewitness testimony to the damage done by vandals. Um, the vandals. Um, what do you... This is crazy. Th- this is... Jeanine was like, "I'm not getting disbarred for this nincompoop." And, um, and speaking of pushback, Marjorie Taylor Greene posted a photo over the weekend alongside Tucker Carlson, Thomas Massie, and a few others writing, "The movement has begun." So the anti-Trump... The anti- the anti-anti-anti-Trumpers. I don't know. I don't... Whatever. Anyway, I told you this reflecting pool was gonna... It is indicative of other things.

   2. SGScott Galloway45:05

      Yeah, it's just such a distraction. I wonder if, if it's planned for them. But Jeanine Pirro did her research, and she found that essentially every lawyer, I mean, literally every lawyer that gets near, whether it's Rudy Giuliani, whether it's Michael Cohen-

   3. KSKara Swisher45:19

      Disbarred

   4. SGScott Galloway45:19

      ... any lawyer that gets near, uh, Trump-

   5. KSKara Swisher45:22

      Yeah

   6. SGScott Galloway45:22

      ... ends up getting disbarred.

   7. KSKara Swisher45:24

      Yeah. That's true.

   8. SGScott Galloway45:24

      I mean, it's striking if you look at, I think, eight of the 10 last lawyers that, that were representing, they get... They end up getting disbarred or fined-

   9. KSKara Swisher45:34

      Disbarred or trouble

   10. SGScott Galloway45:35

       ... or worse.

   11. KSKara Swisher45:35

       Alina, Alina Habba. They all-

   12. SGScott Galloway45:37

       A- a- and there's no loyalty there. There's no-

   13. KSKara Swisher45:40

       Yeah.

   14. SGScott Galloway45:40

       You wanna talk about, in Vietnam, they used to take, I think, the, the second, you know, lieutenant or whatever it was, the platoon leader marks off your helmet because that, the Viet Cong was given strict instructions. "This is the person you take out first."

   15. KSKara Swisher45:54

       Yeah. Y- you think she'll refile given all the pushback? I don't see she can, 'cause the judge, the judge in this case said, "You better be very careful, young lady," or old lady, drunk old lady. Um, they, uh, she... The judge was very explicit that you will be in trouble if you keep going because this is really bad. And but then, you know, the fact that Burgum or the others, they just... When are they gonna give? That I just... I have no idea. This guy had a relatively okay reputation, but him and Bessent to me are the real shockers in terms of, like, how much of a suck-up they can compete being in this situation.

   16. SGScott Galloway46:29

       I think the guy who's actually taken the biggest reputation hit is Todd Blanche. Uh, people, people who knew him at, what is it, the Southern District, uh, really had a lot of respect for him, some as an outstanding lawyer and a person of integrity.

   17. KSKara Swisher46:42

       Adam Schiff said that. What happened to you?

   18. SGScott Galloway46:43

       I think Jeanine Pirro's like, "You know, I, I don't wanna be disbarred. This guy's [chuckles] gonna be out in two and a quarter years or whatever." Um, you know, I think, I think her own lawyers have said to her, "Uh, be really careful here. This is... There's no evidence here."

   19. KSKara Swisher46:59

       You think she'll try to refile anyway just to please-

   20. SGScott Galloway47:01

       I don't know, but the, the, the sad part of this-

   21. KSKara Swisher47:03

       Please the sad, addled old king

   22. SGScott Galloway47:05

       ... is that the more time, the more time we spend talking about a reflecting pool, good or bad, the less time we spend talking about bombs, inflation, and exploding diarrhea.

   23. KSKara Swisher47:12

       I, I agree with you, Scott, but as I said, this is indicative of shoddy work, lying, cult... It's, it's, it's a little... It- it's much more important in terms of what these people are doing. This is how far they'll go to protect an addled old man's ego, which is... Which I think is... A- and it links to Iran. No, like, saying, "Oh, no, we better not do this," or the stuff he was p- posting all weekend was crazy. Like, th- they're willing to let crazy person who has... Like, I just think this is exactly a distillation. That's why I think it's important, because one, it's incompetent management. They couldn't fix the reflecting pool, and then they did it, made it worse. Two, they then tried to blame an American citizen, you know, of something he didn't do. Like, these weird prosecutions are also... It's this... What, what they did to Renee Good, what they did to everybody else, what they're doing to immigrants. It's like they just jail people and just to please him. And so that's why it's important. It, it's, it's, it's, it's a bigger trend of saying, "Yes, sir We think this is amazing. And let me tell you, Doug Berman, the shame of this will not outlive you, and I will be around to remember it for all of us. Same thing with Bessent. And you're right, Todd Blanche. You're all-- Like, L-Liz Cheney is the one who said this, is, "Long after this guy is gone, the dishonor on you will remain." And Jeanine Pirro decided to get out before that.

   24. SGScott Galloway48:36

       Anthony, uh, uh, Scaramucci, I mean, he summarized it correctly when he tries to-- The, the, the flame, the si-- By the way, I saw The Odyssey this weekend. The-

   25. KSKara Swisher48:44

       Oh. Oh, okay

   26. SGScott Galloway48:45

       ... the flame, the siren's call of power and proximity to the president, everyone believes they're gonna be the one that can navigate it and serve the country while not being guilty. Uh, they, they all hear the siren call, and they think that they cannot be immune to it. He is political Chernobyl, who has gone on to great things from his first-

   27. KSKara Swisher49:06

       Yeah

   28. SGScott Galloway49:06

       ... administration.

   29. KSKara Swisher49:07

       Yeah, buddy.

   30. SGScott Galloway49:07

       And in, in the latest episode of Where Are They Now?, I just wanna go over where Trump's lawyers are now. Roy Cohn was disbarred. You know, he's dead now. Michael Cohen, disbarred, pleaded guilty to tax campaign and false statements crimes. Rudy Giuliani, disbarred in New York and DC, hundred and fifty million in defamation damages. Alina Habba, sanctioned one million dollars for fri-frivolous litigation. Boris Epstein, pending AZ criminal charges in fake electoral case. John Eastman, disbarred in California and subpoenaed in DC. Arizona criminal case pending. Kenneth Chesebro, disbarred in New York [chuckles] , uh, Wisconsin case pending. I, I mean, literally, it's second lieutenant in Vietnam to be a lawyer for this guy.
7. 52:56 – 1:05:56

   Wins and Fails

   1. KSKara Swisher52:56

      don't I go first and very quickly?

   2. SGScott Galloway52:57

      Sure.

   3. KSKara Swisher52:57

      Okay, my win is, um, Columbia University School of Journalism, which I went to and as an alumni, hired, uh, Sharon Alfonsi and Scott Pelley as journalists in residence this year, and I couldn't be more happy. I [chuckles] I never go when they ask me to speak, but now I will.

   4. SGScott Galloway53:12

      Oh my God, you're so white.

   5. KSKara Swisher53:13

      I am white, but I love it.

   6. SGScott Galloway53:14

      This is-- I think that's the whitest thing we've ever said on this podcast, and we've said some pretty translucent things here.

   7. KSKara Swisher53:18

      In, in any case, I'm very happy they did that. Congratulations. They're all-- Let me tell you, I've been in touch with a lot of these people. They're all working on some really great things. The New York Post got it wrong about Bill Owens this week, but they're all working on some cool things, and a little bit invigorated. Like, you know, and I was with Don Lemon, Lemon, this week, and he's invigorated. I was on, um, A-Astrid Herndon's show, uh, America Actually, which I loved, and I gotta say, invigorated. All these people feel invigorated. So it's not always a bad thing. It's bad for 60 Minutes, but it's really good for you and your souls. You'll have a great time in, out here in the wilderness. My fail is there's a story in The New York Times about, um, Paul, Weiss, the, the law firm, and the, the downfall of how they acquiesced to Trump, largely 'cause of a single partner who seems like an asshole, um, i-is, and sort of the ruining of another guy who had been a, you know, a beacon of civil rights, um, pro bono work, et cetera, uh, is really devastating, just how quickly, speaking of people giving in and, and being, you know, ruined by the Trump people. Um, this, this was a really sad story. These are the people that should defend us. This was a firm that was well-known for defending people, uh, like people who, who, marginalized people, all manner of things, just very, a, a very legendary firm who, which just essentially took the money and, and started treating, like, behaving in a way that was so grabby. You're so rich, you lawyers. It's really gro- It was a grotesque... I recommend you read it. It's a long read. Um, and it was just, it was really, um- It was really upsetting to read, I have to say. Um, and I'll just say one more thing. FIFA President Gianni Infantino has scrapped his proposal to sell stakes in the World Cup after backlash, and he-- there-- looks like he may be in trouble. There's many more reports. I think several people who don't usually speak out have said it's-- he should leave. Um, but we know someone who predicted this. Let's, let's hear a clip from last week.

   8. SGScott Galloway55:08

      My prediction is that this ridiculous notion that, uh, one of the most corrupt organizations is gonna get financing from a crime family, the Trump family, to take FIFA private and/or turn it into a public company, this won't happen.

   9. KSKara Swisher55:25

      There you go. Scott, all right, all yours.

   10. SGScott Galloway55:29

       You stole some of my thunder. Like, like I have-- I could position one as a fail, but I'll position both as a win. Um, these global athletic oversights, whether it's the IOC, uh, FIFA, or even, I would argue, the NCAA, that was comfortable with white guys in their fifties making millions of dollars and claiming that the non-white people on the hardwood were not allowed to make money 'cause of the purity of the sport. Yeah, there's just so much... These organizations benefit so much from the goodwill and the fact, especially the international organizations, operate in this nether Netherland. Gianni Infantino is so corrupt, FIFA is so corrupt, and the fact that it really does-- It's just, uh, this sport really does bring people together, and at some point, they're just gonna-- Do you know how many people, really talented, um... I mean, take a guy who's lost an elec-- Take a guy like Mitt Romney.

   11. KSKara Swisher56:31

       Damn, Mitt Romney would be good.

   12. SGScott Galloway56:32

       Find just an amazing person whose integrity is unimpeachable.

   13. KSKara Swisher56:38

       Scott Galloway.

   14. SGScott Galloway56:39

       Uh, I, I think I'm, I'm, I'm, I could be-

   15. KSKara Swisher56:41

       You're impeachable. Yeah. So-

   16. SGScott Galloway56:43

       Yeah, I'm impeachable according to-

   17. KSKara Swisher56:44

       We're both impeachable

   18. SGScott Galloway56:44

       ... at least according to Twitter this weekend, I've heard.

   19. KSKara Swisher56:46

       [laughs] Both of us are impeachable, but go ahead.

   20. SGScott Galloway56:47

       Uh, but my point is, find somebody-- There are so many people who have incredible integrity, character, understand sponsorships, understand business, who absolutely adore this game and would take this job for a dollar and bring real-- and say, "Okay, what's the job, not only of the tournament, but how do we get more young people playing sports? How do we, uh, raise the vili- visibility of emerging nations? How do we bring people together in between the World Cups and make nations feel better about one another? How do we just have-- How do I just write, in my final act, a love letter to the sport?" Instead, we have these corrupt individuals that see it as a corpus for their own enrichment.

   21. KSKara Swisher57:32

       Yeah. He should just leave and go hang out with rich people. That's my fam.

   22. SGScott Galloway57:35

       I am really pleased that the public, in their love of the game, just threw up all over this guy and his idea to get the Kushners to finance taking it private and trying to figure out a way to monetize what is, what is the UN that's actually working, and that is football. It's actually bringing people together.

   23. KSKara Swisher57:54

       You're right. This was a great prediction. So is he out out? Do you think he's out? You did say you thought he wouldn't last, huh?

   24. SGScott Galloway57:59

       These governing bodies are so... They have-- Like, what court oversees it? And so it's, it's difficult. And in addition, these guys, these guys grease everybody and pay them off. They have friends everywhere because they, they give money in the form of, quote-unquote, "development revenues" to... I mean, they have-- They're not dumb. They, they've, they've greased a lot of palms. They're a mob family.

   25. KSKara Swisher58:24

       I think your first prediction is correct. I think he's out.

   26. SGScott Galloway58:27

       Oh, really? I'll, I'll-- I hope so. Again, it's the same problem we have with Trump. We need ideas and a vision for, for FIFA, not just shitposting the incumbent.

   27. KSKara Swisher58:37

       Yep, that's a fair point, that we need ideas.

   28. SGScott Galloway58:38

       And let's find, let's find someone unimpeachable who would raise their hand and say, "You know what? I, I would, I would like to do this." Like-

   29. KSKara Swisher58:46

       Cuban?

   30. SGScott Galloway58:47

       I think he'd be great. I think-- I've, I've always been a fan of Tony Blair. Peop-- He evokes a, a gag reflex in people.

Episode duration: 1:05:57