Scott Galloway Discusses Ketamine Experience

1. 0:00 – 0:42

   Setting up Scott’s ketamine “journey” and the clinic vibe

   1. KSKara Swisher0:00

      We promised our listeners last week that we'd discuss your ketamine journey. Everyone is ask- they couldn't believe we waited last week. They were w- people have been asking me a lot. So, give us your, your ketamine journey, and please roll it out for us.

   2. SGScott Galloway0:12

      Uh, so just to set it up, I, um, a friend of mine invested in ketamine clinics, and for me, it was like Burning Man. I always wanted to do it, and I always chickened out, and... Yeah, and my friend invested in a clinic, and he set it up, and he made it seem- seamless for me in Austin. And you walk in, and everyone's got their shoes off, it's a very nice vibe. And they... It was actually quite nice. Uh, you have a person in this kind of, this love room with couches and pillows, it's very comfortable, and they give you a weighted blanket.

2. 0:42 – 1:36

   Screening, safety cautions, and the unexpected prayer ritual

   1. SGScott Galloway0:42

      And then the doctor who talked to me, they did a pre-screening to make sure, you shouldn't do it if you have any schizophrenia in your family, or if you're feeling especially anxious or paranoid, um-

   2. KSKara Swisher0:52

      (laughs)

   3. SGScott Galloway0:52

      ... which for me is called a Tuesday, but anyways the-

   4. KSKara Swisher0:55

      I know, exactly.

   5. SGScott Galloway0:56

      (laughs)

   6. KSKara Swisher0:56

      (laughs) I was like, "Whoa, hold on, stop sign, stop sign."

   7. SGScott Galloway0:59

      I said, I said all of those things, but it's nothing-

   8. KSKara Swisher1:00

      Red light.

   9. SGScott Galloway1:01

      All of those things, but it's nothing out of the normal. And you go into a room that feels like the, you know, the coolest den where you'd hang out and smoke a lot of pot at home. Like rich, it feels like a room in a rich person's house who's very into marijuana. That's right. And this, the thing that initially struck me was the doctor came in, we all held hands and prayed, which I actually found quite comforting. And then you do some deep breathing, some heavy-

   10. KSKara Swisher1:24

       To God?

   11. SGScott Galloway1:25

       Pardon?

   12. KSKara Swisher1:25

       To God, or?

   13. SGScott Galloway1:26

       I- I don't know exactly who-

   14. KSKara Swisher1:28

       Great God.

   15. SGScott Galloway1:28

       ... who was on the other end of that. (laughs) I'm not sure if anyone was listening, but-

   16. KSKara Swisher1:31

       Yeah.

   17. SGScott Galloway1:31

       ... it was nice to be in the company of other people holding hands and hoping for good outcomes.

   18. KSKara Swisher1:35

       Okay.

3. 1:36 – 2:18

   The injection and rapid onset of dissociation

   1. SGScott Galloway1:36

      And then she gives you an injection.

   2. KSKara Swisher1:37

      A little communion.

   3. SGScott Galloway1:38

      And then she gives you an injection, and you get on an elevator, up or out. And the way I would describe it is that, you know, they use the term disassociative for these drugs, and that is you do in fact, your consciousness, your thoughts leave your body. Your body feels fine, it feels very heavy. You can't really move, you have trouble, I had trouble articulating words. But you immediately, your consciousness sort of leaves your body. And I'll give you-

   4. KSKara Swisher2:06

      Quickly, how quickly? I want details.

   5. SGScott Galloway2:08

      Oh, within 30s-

   6. KSKara Swisher2:08

      How quickly did you suddenly feel this?

   7. SGScott Galloway2:10

      ... 30 or 60 seconds, you are, you feel very relaxed, an initial sensation of relaxation. It does reduce your anxiety-

   8. KSKara Swisher2:18

      Mm-hmm.

4. 2:18 – 2:56

   What the experience feels like: “Willy Wonka elevator” and 4K mental visuals

   1. SGScott Galloway2:18

      ... but then you, you elevate, uh, pretty fast. You're, you're Willy Wonka in the, in the-

   2. KSKara Swisher2:23

      Oh, okay.

   3. SGScott Galloway2:23

      ... in the elevator going about-

   4. KSKara Swisher2:25

      Chocolate.

   5. SGScott Galloway2:25

      ... the speed of light. Except I wouldn't describe it as you're traveling. I would describe it as your consciousness leaves your body and then space starts flying around you and surround. And the things-

   6. KSKara Swisher2:36

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SGScott Galloway2:36

      ... that are on your consciousness, uh, begin, you know, I think the, the things that are important or at least in your mind start coming into what I call 4K high definition unavoidable, um, very visual view. And just visually-

   8. KSKara Swisher2:53

      So me? Uh, it was just me, pictures of me?

   9. SGScott Galloway2:55

      That's right.

   10. KSKara Swisher2:56

       Go ahead.

5. 2:56 – 3:46

   Downsides: intrusive anxieties and why set/setting matters

   1. SGScott Galloway2:56

      That's right. But, uh, these things come into very crystal clear view, and s- so I'll give you what I'll call the downsides and I'll give you the upsides. The downsides are some things that I was anxious about in that moment kept popping up, and I knew even in the moment that they weren't that important. Um-

   2. KSKara Swisher3:16

      Uh, can you give me specifics or not?

   3. SGScott Galloway3:18

      I had had, uh, I had been what I felt like, uh, less kind to somebody, or I said some stupid stuff and I felt bad about it, and it just kept popping up. And, and I say a lot of dumb, unkind things-

   4. KSKara Swisher3:30

      Huh.

   5. SGScott Galloway3:30

      ... (laughs) on a regular basis, and trying to be funny or provocative-

   6. KSKara Swisher3:34

      Yeah.

   7. SGScott Galloway3:34

      ... and it just kept coming up. And so, uh, you know-

   8. KSKara Swisher3:37

      Huh.

   9. SGScott Galloway3:37

      ... I waited till the ketamine wore off and I called them and apologized. But in two, if I had done my trip in two weeks, I don't think it would have come up. So your anxieties at the moment-

   10. KSKara Swisher3:46

       Okay.

6. 3:46 – 4:30

   Who should (and shouldn’t) do it: drug tolerance, fear, and medical guidance

   1. SGScott Galloway3:46

      ... do come up with is a bad thing. The other bad thing is that if you have a doctor who recommends it because of trauma or they feel it would help you with your depression, then by all means I would, I would suggest taking medical advice. But if you are not good at drugs, and what do I mean by that? I have done enough drugs-

   2. KSKara Swisher4:03

      Yeah.

   3. SGScott Galloway4:03

      ... that I have been way too high a couple of times, and it's a terrible experience to feel way too high and out of control. But I, you always get through it. But without that confidence-

   4. KSKara Swisher4:14

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SGScott Galloway4:14

      ... of knowing you're gonna get through it, I would absolutely not do this.

   6. KSKara Swisher4:18

      Oh, mind fuck.

   7. SGScott Galloway4:19

      Because-

   8. KSKara Swisher4:20

      Oh, so a mind fuck if you don't take... Oh, I shouldn't do it in other words.

   9. SGScott Galloway4:23

      Oh, I would not recommend it to any... I was thinking about you, I was thinking about my wife, which is a little odd, but-

   10. KSKara Swisher4:29

       (laughs)

   11. SGScott Galloway4:29

       ... I would not recommend it for you.

   12. KSKara Swisher4:30

       (laughs)

7. 4:30 – 5:45

   Upside: clarity and “cementing” what truly matters—his children

   1. SGScott Galloway4:30

      Uh, because there are moments, and I'm not... I, I don't want to say there are moments where it's terrifying, that's a strong... There are moments that are very scary, that if you could you'd be like, "I want off this rollercoaster." But your consciousness, your consciousness separates from you, and you're just looking at your consciousness and your perception of things, and the universe starts flying by you. And what I would say is that the, the upside is it's very clarifying and cementing of things that are important to you. So I had these incredibly, incredibly, uh, crystal clear unimaginably sharp images in 3D all around me of these two favorite pictures I, I have of my boys. And you're thinking about your relationship with them and how deep it is, but it goes like exponentially deeper. And you sort of like... I mean, very obvious stuff. You know your purpose is to love your children, but you start, you start recognizing that this is, this is everything for me. Like this is who I am, is the, is-

   2. KSKara Swisher5:41

      Yeah. So it clarified important, it came to the forefront.

8. 5:45 – 6:49

   Death, purpose, and the ‘surplus value’ idea of adulthood

   1. SGScott Galloway5:45

      Clarity or clarification and cementing is how I would describe the upside of it. And I, you know, I had, I saw, I saw death but in a good way. I think about death a lot, and I thought, okay.

   2. KSKara Swisher5:56

      Yeah.

   3. SGScott Galloway5:56

      And I'm very into this concept of surplus value, that when a boy becomes a man...... when he's now producing more-

   4. KSKara Swisher6:02

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SGScott Galloway6:02

      ... than he's taking in. And some people never get to that point.

   6. KSKara Swisher6:05

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SGScott Galloway6:05

      People love you, people spend time on you-

   8. KSKara Swisher6:06

      Mm-hmm.

   9. SGScott Galloway6:07

      ... your school spends resources on you, the world spends resources on you.

   10. KSKara Swisher6:10

       Mm-hmm.

   11. SGScott Galloway6:11

       And when you really become a man is when the output or the, the love-

   12. KSKara Swisher6:14

       You pay back.

   13. SGScott Galloway6:15

       ... the care, the concern, the productivity you offer the world is greater than your inputs. And for me, it was clarifying, I'm like, "Okay, my opportunity here is to, is to love my boys more than, you know, my parents loved me."

   14. KSKara Swisher6:27

       Oh, so that's what came to the forefront, interesting. Not your work. Not your work or, or other things.

   15. SGScott Galloway6:31

       That's really interesting, not a single image, not a single thought about my work-

   16. KSKara Swisher6:36

       Mm-hmm.

   17. SGScott Galloway6:37

       ... about money, about success, about lack thereof, about professional success or disappointment, and that occupies-

   18. KSKara Swisher6:43

       Mm-hmm.

   19. SGScott Galloway6:43

       ... the majority of my waking hours. It was all about my boys-

   20. KSKara Swisher6:47

       Yeah. speaker: Sure.

   21. SGScott Galloway6:47

       ... and then, surprisingly, my...

9. 6:49 – 7:46

   Is it hallucinogenic? Comparing ketamine to mushrooms/LSD and near-death sensations

   1. KSKara Swisher6:49

      Can I ask you, was it hallucinogenic or... I- I- I- when you're seeing these pictures, is it just your thoughts or do you actually see things? 'Cause on some of these things-

   2. SGScott Galloway6:58

      Oh, no.

   3. KSKara Swisher6:58

      ... like mushrooms, you see things. Color, LSD, you see colors, right? I-

   4. SGScott Galloway7:02

      So I've told you about-

   5. KSKara Swisher7:03

      Or they pulse or something.

   6. SGScott Galloway7:04

      ... the sphere being mind-blowing in Las Vegas.

   7. KSKara Swisher7:07

      Yeah.

   8. SGScott Galloway7:07

      This is the sphere of the sphere. You're- the walls are breathing.

   9. KSKara Swisher7:12

      Oh.

   10. SGScott Galloway7:12

       The universe is flying by you in crystal clear clarity.

   11. KSKara Swisher7:18

       Magically.

   12. SGScott Galloway7:18

       But you are no longer in your body, and you are thinking just...

   13. KSKara Swisher7:22

       So like when you die, you know that feeling when they say when you die you pull out of your body and then you're looking down on...

   14. SGScott Galloway7:25

       That's, that's how I imagine it, it's like I am beaming towards the source, the source is comforting, and along the way, I don't have time for one of the billions of planets or the trillions of organisms that aren't important, it's just the two or three very important things and a recognition. And there was no discovery, there was nothing new.

   15. KSKara Swisher7:46

       Mm-hmm.

10. 7:46 – 9:18

    A surprising emotional ‘gift’: his wife as the Bahne skateboard analogy

    1. SGScott Galloway7:46

       And my- actually, my wife came into it, but in a much different way. It was like, this shock.

    2. KSKara Swisher7:52

       Hm.

    3. SGScott Galloway7:52

       And the way I would describe the shock was, did you ever when you were a kid get a gift, you weren't expecting it, and it was something that was so unattainable for you? That you could never even imagine owning it? I mean, you wanted it so much but it was unattainable. For me it was, when I was a kid I was really into skateboarding. My skateboard cost $2.

    4. KSKara Swisher8:13

       Yeah.

    5. SGScott Galloway8:14

       And there was a-

    6. KSKara Swisher8:15

       Right.

    7. SGScott Galloway8:15

       ... skateboard called a Bahne, B-A-H-N-E, which was the ultimate luxury item, the equivalent of a Bugatti or-

    8. KSKara Swisher8:22

       Mm-hmm.

    9. SGScott Galloway8:22

       ... a Birkin bag, but they were $45.

    10. KSKara Swisher8:25

        Right.

    11. SGScott Galloway8:25

        And, and in a million years my mom (laughs) and I could never afford a $45 skateboard. And my mom's boyfriend...

    12. KSKara Swisher8:31

        Mm-hmm.

    13. SGScott Galloway8:31

        ... came home one day with this real ragtag box, and he said, "This is for you," and I open it and it was a Bahne skateboard. And at that moment, that moment of just like-

    14. KSKara Swisher8:40

        Oh, wow.

    15. SGScott Galloway8:40

        ... shock and joy that that was mine.

    16. KSKara Swisher8:42

        Mm-hmm.

    17. SGScott Galloway8:43

        When my wife came into the picture-

    18. KSKara Swisher8:45

        Mm-hmm.

    19. SGScott Galloway8:45

        ... I, I remember feeling this like, like, "Who is this? Oh my God, I get to-"

    20. KSKara Swisher8:50

        Mm-hmm.

    21. SGScott Galloway8:50

        "... hang out with this person?"

    22. KSKara Swisher8:52

        That's correct. Thank you, Scott. We all know that. You know, uh, the rest of us know this, 'cause your wife is a hot ticket item in every single way.

    23. SGScott Galloway9:00

        But-

    24. KSKara Swisher9:00

        Oh, go ahead.

    25. SGScott Galloway9:00

        ... but just this notion of, like, "Who is this? Oh my God, I get to hang out with this person, partner with this person, I get to be physical with this person, I get to be affec-" It was like, it was like this Bahne skateboard-

    26. KSKara Swisher9:12

        Mm-hmm.

    27. SGScott Galloway9:12

        ... times a million, and that was very nice and clarifying.

    28. KSKara Swisher9:15

        (laughs) Your wife was a big support.

    29. SGScott Galloway9:17

        Well, but you know what I mean.

11. 9:18 – 9:44

    No spiritual revelation—just reinforcement of existing truths

    1. KSKara Swisher9:18

       Oh, interesting. Did you- I know, I know, let me- did you have any religious-

    2. SGScott Galloway9:22

       Not at all.

    3. KSKara Swisher9:22

       ... or spiritual thinking?

    4. SGScott Galloway9:23

       It would- it absolut-

    5. KSKara Swisher9:24

       None at all?

    6. SGScott Galloway9:24

       It really doesn't-

    7. KSKara Swisher9:25

       No, you didn't touch the face of God, did you?

    8. SGScott Galloway9:27

       The way I would-

    9. KSKara Swisher9:27

       Right.

    10. SGScott Galloway9:27

        ... the way I would describe it is it doesn't illuminate anything new or teach you anything new-

    11. KSKara Swisher9:32

        Mm-hmm.

    12. SGScott Galloway9:32

        ... it didn't for me, what it did was just clarify or the cement- or cement the things that I know and are- that are very important to me. And it just sort of...

    13. KSKara Swisher9:40

        So no appearances by the Pivot team or Kara Swisher in this. Go ahead.

12. 9:44 – 11:37

    Takeaways and a sobering warning: ‘permission to leave’ and the rollercoaster fear

    1. SGScott Galloway9:44

       Yeah, not a lot. But I mean this, absolutely nothing about my work and the, the takeaway, I went in with the intention-

    2. KSKara Swisher9:50

       It's for you.

    3. SGScott Galloway9:51

       ... I wanted to ask myself a question, like, "What is my purpose? How do I add value?" And I just came back to this notion that I have ha- I've been fortunate enough to receive a lot of love, and my...

    4. KSKara Swisher10:02

       Mm-hmm.

    5. SGScott Galloway10:02

       ... my goal in life is to have surplus value in terms of the amount of love I give as opposed to the amount of love I've, I've received.

    6. KSKara Swisher10:10

       Nice.

    7. SGScott Galloway10:11

       And also, this weird recognition that I'm almost there, and that quite frankly gives me permission-

    8. KSKara Swisher10:17

       Mm-hmm.

    9. SGScott Galloway10:17

       ... to leave. Uh, and, and I don't want to say die-

    10. KSKara Swisher10:20

        Yeah.

    11. SGScott Galloway10:20

        ... 'cause that sounds negative.

    12. KSKara Swisher10:21

        Oh. Please don't.

    13. SGScott Galloway10:22

        But I have, I have-

    14. KSKara Swisher10:23

        Yeah.

    15. SGScott Galloway10:23

        ... permission to leave and I, I've checked a box. That was kind-

    16. KSKara Swisher10:27

        You've done enough.

    17. SGScott Galloway10:28

        Well, I've-

    18. KSKara Swisher10:29

        You've done enough Scott. Yeah, well you've done-

    19. SGScott Galloway10:30

        ... I've, I've-

    20. KSKara Swisher10:30

        You're a surplus person.

    21. SGScott Galloway10:31

        ... I've checked-

    22. KSKara Swisher10:31

        You're a plus person, yeah.

    23. SGScott Galloway10:32

        ... I'm a, you know, I feel like, I mean, I always think in terms of masculinity, I think, "I am a man, I have loved more than I've been loved, and that's the goal." And that- that- but it was-

    24. KSKara Swisher10:41

        Yeah.

    25. SGScott Galloway10:41

        ... very clarifying-

    26. KSKara Swisher10:42

        Mm-hmm.

    27. SGScott Galloway10:42

        ... it was very positive, but let me circle back.

    28. KSKara Swisher10:44

        No.

    29. SGScott Galloway10:45

        This is not something to be done lightly.

    30. KSKara Swisher10:46

        You wouldn't do it.
13. 11:37 – 12:49

    Kara’s childhood self-induced dissociation and the session’s duration

    1. KSKara Swisher11:37

       You know, I- I- I'm re- I'm recalling when I was a kid, I used to stare in the m- when I was very sad about my dad and stuff, I would stare into the mirror and I would hypnotize myself. I would go, "Who am I? What am I doing here?" And I'd repeat it over and over again-

    2. SGScott Galloway11:51

       Yeah.

    3. KSKara Swisher11:51

       ... and then I would disassociate. It was amazing. I don't- I can't believe I did that as a kid, but I- I have a very deep recollection. If you stare into a mirror and say that, "Who am I? What am I doing here?" I f- it freaked me out when I was a kid.

    4. SGScott Galloway12:03

       I think some of that is good-

    5. KSKara Swisher12:04

       And I still have memories of that.

    6. SGScott Galloway12:04

       ... I think some of it is bad, if it gets too much.

    7. KSKara Swisher12:06

       Yeah. It was.

    8. SGScott Galloway12:07

       Imagine that-

    9. KSKara Swisher12:07

       'Cause you can't get out of it.

    10. SGScott Galloway12:08

        Imagine that times a hundred.

    11. KSKara Swisher12:10

        At one point I couldn't pull myself out. Yeah.

    12. SGScott Galloway12:10

        That- that's, that's a great-

    13. KSKara Swisher12:12

        Yeah, I can't believe it. Amazing.

    14. SGScott Galloway12:13

        ... that's a great example. But it was, um...

    15. KSKara Swisher12:15

        Mm-hmm.

    16. SGScott Galloway12:16

        ... uh, scary, downside, some anxiety that just shouldn't have been there-

    17. KSKara Swisher12:20

        Mm-hmm.

    18. SGScott Galloway12:20

        ... because of the state of my mind at the time, but it was very clarifying. And you're not- I, I promised myself-

    19. KSKara Swisher12:25

        Good.

    20. SGScott Galloway12:25

        ... I wasn't gonna call anybody right after Under the Influence Academy, but of course I immediately-

    21. KSKara Swisher12:28

        Right. You didn't, I didn't hear.

    22. SGScott Galloway12:30

        ... I immediately cal-

    23. KSKara Swisher12:30

        How long did it last?

    24. SGScott Galloway12:32

        It's about an hour, but you can't really stand. I mean, you're, you're woozy. But I immediately called my wife and told her she was a Bahne skateboard, but she was very moved by it. (laughs)

    25. KSKara Swisher12:40

        Oh. (laughs)

    26. SGScott Galloway12:43

        Um...

    27. KSKara Swisher12:44

        (laughs) How did she react? Oh, I'm gonna get you one of those now and put your wife's face on it.

    28. SGScott Galloway12:47

        Yeah, but I mean...

    29. KSKara Swisher12:48

        That's really, of course, that's, that's my birthday present to you.

14. 12:49 – 13:54

    Final reflections: ‘impossible’ love for his sons, and what didn’t appear

    1. SGScott Galloway12:49

       But the, the, the thing you'd wanna give to people who have a nice relationship-

    2. KSKara Swisher12:53

       Mm-hmm.

    3. SGScott Galloway12:53

       ... with their kids, you just...

    4. KSKara Swisher12:55

       Mm-hmm.

    5. SGScott Galloway12:55

       Y- uh, the word that kept coming up or the feeling, and then so I'll finish here, was impossible, but impossible in a good way. Impossible in the sense that my boys can never understand until they have their own boys how deeply-

    6. KSKara Swisher13:10

       Mm-hmm.

    7. SGScott Galloway13:10

       ... I feel about them and my commitment to them, and it was this wonderful feeling, that I have this secret that, that they just can't comprehend. You know, the depth of the commitment and the connection I feel with them. And the word was impossible, but in a very positive way. But it was all about-

    8. KSKara Swisher13:27

       Yeah.

    9. SGScott Galloway13:27

       ... it was all about my boys, a little bit about-

    10. KSKara Swisher13:30

        Mm-hmm.

    11. SGScott Galloway13:31

        ... a little bit about my, you know, my partner in life, but nothing about work.

    12. KSKara Swisher13:36

        Mm-hmm.

    13. SGScott Galloway13:36

        Nothing about health.

    14. KSKara Swisher13:37

        Huh. There you go. All right.

    15. SGScott Galloway13:38

        Nothing, and I, nothing about my parents, which shocked the shit out of me.

    16. KSKara Swisher13:41

        Mm-hmm.

    17. SGScott Galloway13:41

        It was very weird.

    18. KSKara Swisher13:42

        Good for you, Scott. That sounds fantastic. Now I- I'm excited about your LSD trip, and your, your ayahuasca trip and everything else.

    19. SGScott Galloway13:49

        There you go. (laughs) No, I'm done.

Episode duration: 13:55