The Benefits of "Disagreeable" Leader at the Helm | Pivot

1. KSKara Swisher0:00

   Mike Maples Jr. is the co- founder of the venture, uh, capital firm, Floodgate. He's written a new book, Pattern Breakers: Why Some Startups Change the Future. And let me say, I was just telling Scott a second ago, you're one of my favorite people to talk to 'cause you're so smart. You've always given me good insights. And, although at the same time, with many VCs, it's a low bar. Um, so, uh, but I've always appreciated your insights. You- it was always different and unusual. So, let's just get into it. Just for people who don't know, you were an early investor. You've always been a very earlier investor. In Twitter, uh, when it was Odeo, Twitch, Lyft, and many others. What exactly defines a founder or company as a pattern breaker? I mean, that's... why- why'd you call your book Pattern Breakers?

2. MJMike Maples Jr.0:39

   Now, I'll, I'll give an example that's not even in the startup realm, but it would be a pattern-breaking example of recent times, the Tesla Cybertruck. Now, y- you may like it, you may dislike it, when I saw it a- announced, I thought he might be joking. Right? Like, I, I was like, "Is he really gonna ship that thing?" But nobody, when they see a Cybertruck ever says, "Well, so how does that compare to an F-150?" So, Elon kind of says, "Live in my future or don't, but you have to choose." Uh, so pattern breaker is... the idea was that we tend to operate according to consistent patterns. And that's actually not a bad thing. That help- helped us avoid saber-toothed tigers or it helps us fit in socially in communities and stuff. But, but pattern break- uh, pattern matching, uh, creates a bias as well. It causes you to not, not see other, other opportunities.

3. KSKara Swisher1:28

   This is a quote from you. "The right amount of disagreeableness can be a founder's ally in developing breakthrough ideas." Now, at the same time, it can lead to toxicity. You mentioned Elon-

4. MJMike Maples Jr.1:38

   Yeah.

5. KSKara Swisher1:38

   ... he was, he was very disagreeable, but it's morphed into toxicity now-

6. MJMike Maples Jr.1:42

   Mm-hmm.

7. KSKara Swisher1:42

   ... right? In a way that's... everything is disagreeable, right? Talk about that balance. 'Cause I agree with you, uh, you know, I, I think I'm a disagreeable person. I think that's one of the reason I'm successful-

8. MJMike Maples Jr.1:52

   (laughs)

9. KSKara Swisher1:52

   ... 'cause I disagree. No, but I go-

10. MJMike Maples Jr.1:53

    Okay.

11. KSKara Swisher1:53

    ... I'm like, "I wanna do podcasts now 10 years ago." This is what I-

12. MJMike Maples Jr.1:57

    (laughs)

13. KSKara Swisher1:57

    ... even though... and a lot of people said no or-

14. SGScott Galloway1:59

    Don't say anything. Don't say-

15. KSKara Swisher2:01

    I'm just saying-

16. SGScott Galloway2:01

    ... anything.

17. KSKara Swisher2:01

    Shush. Shush. Shush. Shush. Um, but we'll talk about this disagreeableness and when it becomes kind of, you know, I was right before and you'll see that I'm right again, 'cause it's not always the case for sure.

18. MJMike Maples Jr.2:13

    Yeah. So, um, so I'm gonna tread carefully on this question because, uh-

19. KSKara Swisher2:18

    Okay.

20. MJMike Maples Jr.2:18

    ... my, uh, you know, I'm, I'm a little bit more positive on Elon than you might be.

21. KSKara Swisher2:22

    Yes, I know that.

22. MJMike Maples Jr.2:23

    Um, so, so like the way I-

23. SGScott Galloway2:25

    'Cause you're a VC looking for his next deal? What, what VC-

24. KSKara Swisher2:27

    (laughs)

25. MJMike Maples Jr.2:27

    (laughs)

26. SGScott Galloway2:27

    ... out there with a fond open is critical of Elon Musk?

27. MJMike Maples Jr.2:31

    Okay. Well, let me-

28. SGScott Galloway2:32

    Anyways.

29. MJMike Maples Jr.2:32

    So I haven't invested in his companies.

30. SGScott Galloway2:33

    But I'm sure you're, I'm sure you're fondness for him is, is, is genuine. Anyways, go ahead though.

Episode duration: 10:54