PivotThe 'Creepy' Truth About Meta's New AI App | Pivot
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
140 min read · 27,679 words- 0:00 – 7:27
Intro
- KSKara Swisher
You're much more promiscuous in loading up your information.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, my attitude is violate my privacy as long as I can see that my QX60 is one minute away. I, I could just get edibles-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... and order Ubers and watch how close my car is.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
I find it fucking fascinating. I'm like, "Why is he making a right turn on Broome? Doesn't he know where he's going?" (instrumental music)
- KSKara Swisher
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I get a call from this iconic media company that is doing... Or a reporter there, and I won't say which company, that is doing a profile on Kara Swisher.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) You've had one there.
- SGScott Galloway
And her first, uh, question was, "What qualities make Kara such an amazing leader?"
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm like, "Oh, fuck, this is gonna be rough."
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
This is... I literally... I'm not exaggerating, Kara. I went and made myself a drink. I'm like, "Okay."
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
"Okay, this is how it's gonna go?"
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
"This is how it's gonna go?"
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
And it was literally like getting a colonoscopy without anesthetic.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
I just sat there and said, "Okay, it's gonna be over soon. It's gonna be over soon."
- KSKara Swisher
Did you embarrass me? My instructions to you were to embarrass me in some fashion.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, here's the thing when you do these things, what you realize is it's entirely up to them. They could twist your words anyway. Yeah, and they could use, you know, one or two things I said to support some narrative that was negative or ... But I, I definitely got the feeling it was gonna, it's gonna be a giant puff piece, but we'll see.
- KSKara Swisher
No, it's not. No, I have a very complex... You know, they'll find someone who doesn't li-
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, I'm not saying you deserve a puff piece. (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
I gave them, I gave them recommendations of people who don't like me. I'm like-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, they-
- KSKara Swisher
... "They're gonna give you an off-the-record piece on me, so you might as well just call them and just..." (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I do the same thing.
- 7:27 – 10:52
India/Pakistan Conflict Escalates
- KSKara Swisher
But first, tensions between India and Pakistan are escalating after India launched military strikes against targets in Pakistan this week in retaliation for a deadly attack in Kashmir. This conflict is happening at a pivotal economic moment. India is doing trade deals with the US and the UK, and Pakistan is emerging from a years-long financial crisis. You've also got China recently, uh, allied, uh, with Pakistan, recently calling Pakistan an "ironclad friend" and an all-weather strategic, uh, cooperative partnersh- partner. For his part, President Trump has offered to help to defuse things, saying, "If I can do anything to help, I'll be there." Of course, the Trumps themselves are doing some, some deal with Pakistan too, a personal deal. So there's that thrown in there. Both countries are, uh, nuclear powers. Um, I, I, I in fact interviewed Christiane Amanpour so I'm gonna channel whatever she says in my comments and pretend they're mine. Yesterday, she had a lot to, you know, it was an interesting inter- interview. But this is sort of the day's conflict. Any thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
Oh yeah, whenever there's a border skirmish with nuclear powers, you have to take it very seriously. And, uh, on a much less substantive level, India's a big trading partner with us. On the e- economy you could see oil prices and gold prices, uh, skyrocket with that kind of instability. But when two nuclear powers who border each other start, you know, arguing, it's very scary. And it all can be (laughs) sort of reverse engineered to, of course, the West, uh, specifically the UK dividing up India into Pak- Pakistan in a very sloppy way that's created all sorts of, uh, religious and regional tensions and fights over Kashmir. And, um China will probably, or China's a very strong ally, they describe themselves as an ironclad friend of Pakistan. Uh, India has very strong relationships with Japan and Israel and the UAE. I just hope the adults show up and, and defuse the tensions because typically these types of crazy conflicts are real exogenous shocks. It's not the shit you're worried about that, that gets you, it's the shit you're not thinking about. (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
Well, uh, you know Christiane was saying that it requires really good diplomacy and she's worried about the Trump administration, because the US has always been a key person here and he, she said into a vacuum something always flows, and so that would be China. And, you know, there are these complications of the Trump's personal financial interests, um, in, in the countries, uh, and it, it just makes a big mess of it. And she was worried there wasn't someone who could, like they'll send in that idiot Steve Witkoff or someone like that h- to deal with it rather than someone more competent. And if Stephen Miller becomes the National Security Advi-, I mean, seriously so over his skis, um, and doesn't like brown people, uh, from what I can tell. Um, and, uh, so they... it's a real problem if you don't have the US in a, in real fighting shape, uh, among these people to sort of shut the whole thing down. Um, and, uh, you know, it's another one of these conflicts. The next one will be possibly Taiwan, and so there's going to be one conflict after the next as China starts to really flex its power, um, especially as its economy is, uh, suffering, uh, because of the tariffs. It'll, it'll want to, it want to expand elsewhere I think. Anyway, we're not experts on this but, uh, I would recommend listening to, Scott interviews lots of foreign, uh, experts and I just did Christiane, and so listen to them. But, um, but still troubling for the, for the, for the stock market, for the economies, and for stability in general with all the different conflicts around the world. I thought he was going to be the settle-it president but I guess not.
- 10:52 – 20:28
OpenAI Abandons For Profit Plans
- KSKara Swisher
Um, OpenAI will abandon plans to place its AI business under control of a for-profit entity. Instead it will transform its for-profit subsidiary into a public benefit corporation controlled by the non-profit parent, which I think was, they were considering a lot of things. The decision was made after talking to civic leaders and AGs of California and Delaware who would need to sign off on the plan. Obviously they didn't like what was, you know, the possibilities. Sam Altman, CEO Sam Altman said the changes will still allow the company to access $30 billion investment from SoftBank. As a reminder, Elon Musk has been attempting to block the company's restructuring. His lawyer says the announcement changes nothing, which means he didn't really care about the non-profit part if this is what they're doing. Uh, obviously he wants his vague because that's what Elon wants. Um, I talked to, uh, to, um, Sam and Bret Taylor about it and I think, you know, I was like, "This is a back walk." Um, they were like, "No, because we were considering lots of things then we got feedback and we made the decision," and th- said that the Musk thing had nothing to do with it and it was evidenced by the fact that Musk didn't pull the lawsuit after, uh, they did this and they felt like they still had enough ability to, um, um, you know, to raise money. I think their issue is they've got to raise money and at the same time reward people and then they have a lot of people feeling they should stay true to their original roots, which was in a, was a mission-driven company. So probably, uh, probably will be a good thing for them to get this in their rear view mirror and then move on. Um, but I don't know if you have any thoughts.
- SGScott Galloway
So I, I, I'd love to speak to Preet Bharara or someone who's close to the issue but my general take, uh, on-... first blush is the following, and that is, uh, Elon Musk has absolutely catalyzed this.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And that is, just as there is law fair, I think this is what I would refer to as nomenclature fair.
- KSKara Swisher
Hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And that is, the judge, a judge, uh, the attorney general essentially told OpenAI that their proposed transition doesn't fit the, the strict criteria for transition from a nonprofit-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... to a for-profit.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And so effectively, what they've done is by saying, "Oh, no, just kidding. We're one of these ridiculous private benefit corporations that a bunch of VCs could virtue signal and say, 'I still want all the money, but I wanna pretend I'm actually helping humanity.'" I think it's the most ridiculous corporate classification in history. Um, they, they go back and say, "No. We're a not-for-profit," but they're lifting the cap on when the for-profit is entitled to the profits of above $100 billion, which I think only three companies have ever achieved. So this effectively, from a mechanical situation, or, or the complexion of the company, the operations, or the shareholder governance, has absolutely no impact, but I think somewhat inoculates them from the kind of, the, the white meat of Musk's accusations in his case. I think the lawyers came back and said, "Okay. Fine. Tell, tell, uh, Musk and his lawyers, 'Oh, just kidding. You win. We're still a, a nonprofit, but it's not gonna change anything we do practically.'"
- KSKara Swisher
No. The, let me tell you something. They said the for-profit corporation board and the nonprofit board will be the same people, right? And so-
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm. Makes sense.
- KSKara Swisher
... you know, it's usually this nonprofit has hegemony over the for-profit corporation now, but it's the same board. It's the, it's the same board. So-
- SGScott Galloway
It's the sa- it's the same-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, nothing changes here except OpenAI's lawyers can say, "Oh, we are a, a not-for-profit. He has no case." That's how-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... I read it.
- KSKara Swisher
Except he didn't pull the case 'cause he wants this-
- SGScott Galloway
Well, of course not.
- KSKara Swisher
... one of his-
- SGScott Galloway
He's not, he- he-
- KSKara Swisher
He didn't do it to help anybody at all, helped himself, to help himself or slow them down. That's what he did it for.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I think that's right.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. So we'll see. I think it'll give them, it'll, it'll get e- everyone else will back off and he will just continue 'cause he thinks he's owed more. I think that's really at the heart of his case is he thinks he created it and funded it and deserves more money from it, but in fact-
- SGScott Galloway
He has seller's remorse.
- KSKara Swisher
... he walked away. He walked a-
- SGScott Galloway
One, one of the biggest mistakes, uh, ever in terms of just-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... pure wealth is he said, "I'm outta here." And he said he signed away the company le- ironclad-
- 20:28 – 29:53
Trump’s Meeting with Carney
- KSKara Swisher
will follow. And speaking of our allies, Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney sat down for a meeting with President Trump at the White House this week. Trump was, of course, asked about Canada becoming the 51st state again. Let's listen.
- NANarrator
Mr. Prime Minister, I'd like to get your response to this too. But Mr. President, you have said that Canada should become the 51st state. Were you joking?
- NANarrator
No, no. Well, I still believe that, but- but, you know, takes two to tango, right?
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- NANarrator
Uh, but no, I do. I mean, I believe it would be a- a massive tax cut for the Canadian citizens. Uh, you get free military. You get tremendous, uh, medical cares and other things.
- KSKara Swisher
Medical cares. You get tremendous medical care in Canada, not in the US.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, Canadians are dying for our medical care system-
- KSKara Swisher
They re-
- SGScott Galloway
... so they can be more obese, depressed-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... and anxious, and pay more.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
They pay twice, twice as much for their healthcare.
- KSKara Swisher
Anyway, when Trump was-
- SGScott Galloway
They pay eight times what anyone else pays for-
- KSKara Swisher
Medical cares.
- SGScott Galloway
... for pharmaceuticals.
- KSKara Swisher
Don't have any cares about medical. Anyway, when Trump was asked about whether Carney could say anything to lift the tariffs on Canada, he said no. Uh, the president also told the room that Canada's a very special place to him and that he loves the country. Speaking of tariffs, uh, w- w- we'll... This'll- this is an interesting thing. Internal documents obtained by the Washington Post show that the State Department pushed, uh, nations to clear hurdles for Starlink. Huh. Leading to some, uh, leading to some to believe there would be a tariff relief for following through. Totally by the books, as always. Total grift. Um, so what... I'm gonna just n- note some things. Um, Matt Stoller, who's a- who's, um, sort of a person who deals with a lot of stuff like this, noted that this UK is hoping to get reduction on 25% tariffs the US is levying, um, but the baseline 10% tariff will remain in place, officials say. In return, Britain is offering concessions on a digital tax it levies on U- big US companies, uh, big US tech companies. Um, and so Stoller noted, so these trade deals are just cuts and tariffs in return for Google and Meta. Explain how this is an attempt at manufacturing renaissance by demanding consumer sacrifice. Uh, so let's go from there, Scott. It was first the- the British thing, then Canadian. And I love Mark Carney. He's such a hunk. Um, and- and the Starlink thing is exactly as I expected, total pay-for-play. Go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
I thought the more insightful and- and in- e- educational clip was what- how Mark Carney handled the question. And I think anyone who's in communications or anyone who handles- s- does speech writing or wa- or generally just wants a lesson in how you push back forcefully but in the most dignified way, and you don't antagonize, uh, a very sensitive person who's entirely about ego and not about stakeholder value, i.e. the president. He- uh, Mark Carney's comments were just such a- a masterclass in terms of tone of what he said and he said, "Well, you know," because he- he gave him an opening. Trump said, "Well, I think of it as a real estate deal," and you look at the big, beautiful nation of Canada.
- NANarrator
Having met with, uh, the owners of Canada over the course of the campaign, uh, last several months, uh, it- it's- it's not for sale. Won't be for sale, uh, ever. Uh, but the opportunity is in the partnership and, uh, and- and what we can build together. And we have done that in the past.
- SGScott Galloway
And I thought that was such an insightful way to frame it. And he said, "And the owners- the owners have told me that, uh, this piece of real estate is not for sale." And that is such an elegant and non-combative way of saying, "Yeah, uh, go fuck yourself." (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Go fuck yourself. And then, of course, Trump goes, "Never say never." Ugh.
- SGScott Galloway
Right. Yeah. Well-
- KSKara Swisher
Like, so that's... He did a great job. I thought Carney was quite a spectacularly... Uh, just he seemed erudite and approachable at the same time. So go to the tariffs, because I do think this is like... They're all, like, really not tariff deals. This seems like a bunch of shakedowns all over the world, including the Starlink thing, which is exactly what I expected and remains horrifying.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, this is... A kleptocracy is you- you figure out a way to a- ascertain or usurp or attain power, and then you use that power to make a small group of people very rich who have proximity to you who then give you a vig.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And everybody else gets less wealthy. And that is what is happening across the entire country.... as we have an individual that is acting like a mob boss who monetizes the United States and the White House. And this is exactly that. This is, he has proximity to big tech firms. He wants, A, he thinks of them as iconic. They give him a lot of money. He calls them and they take their, their, their tariff pricing down. He calls them and they say, "Oh, we're now in the business of, of," quote unquote, "free moderation. And we call Trump a badass and we give him a million dollars for his inauguration." And okay, so we're gonna give them a lead over every other tech or media firm in exchange, such that we can call it victory. And small and medium-sized media, media firms are shit out of luck. It's like, okay, they don't get this special advantage. They don't get this relief. And he can claim victory by ... And this, this Starlink thing is literally like, "Okay, this guy put a quarter of a billion dollars into my campaign. And so I'm going to force countries, I'm going to ..." I mean, Buffett said it. He said, "Trade, these types of trade wars are, are form," or, "Tariffs are a form of warfare." So the US is, uh, threatening war. In exchange, you have to give sweetheart deals, non-competitive advantage to the companies owned by the guy that gave me a quarter of a billion dollars to my campaign. He's literally-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And who does that hurt? It hurts everyone.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- 29:53 – 36:00
Gabbard and Hegseth’s Sloppy Passwords
- KSKara Swisher
Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence, uh, that's, that's, that's working hard, that word right there, those two words, um, reportedly has a history of not following best practices when it comes to cyber security. Gabbard used the same easily cracked password across multiple accounts, I'm surprised it wasn't 1234, for years according to Wired. The password showed up in multiple data breaches and was linked to her Gmail, Dropbox, and LinkedIn accounts, and it was apparently some nickname she had in some strange group she belonged to. During the time the breaches occurred, Gabbard was serving in Congress and sitting on the intelligence-related committees with access to sensitive national security information. Then again-That's, hold my beer, (stammers) lot of beers, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth also had passwords exposed in multiple data breaches, including the one that was e- reused across personal email accounts, according to New York Times. I mean, uh, this is, like, worse than my mother, these two. And, um, we also learned that he used Signal, Pete Hegseth, even more for Pentagon business, engaging in at least a dozen separate chats, The Wall Street Journal reported. I mean, uh, I've never seen more promiscuous people when it comes to bad data practices. And talk about your concerns about this. It doesn't, uh, like, these people do not know how to keep classified information safe, um, a- and even their own personal information at the same time.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, you know what happens when Pete Hegseth takes Viagra?
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) What?
- SGScott Galloway
He grows taller, Kara. He grows taller.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, (laughs) look. When we send our young, our daughters and our sons to serve in uniform-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... they leave their families for months at a time.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
They forgo economic opportunity, and they put themselves in harm's way and oftentimes come back severely traumatized because, you know, they, they face such intense and incredibly stressful situations. And in exchange for that, we have unprecedented ability to deliver violence all over the world that has created prosperity and security for Americans for 250 years. And the reason why the US military is the most impressive organization in the history of the West is because from top to bottom, people take it very seriously, and that is they appreciate, even, even if you're anti-war, anti-military, if you're in a position to help and protect our men in uniform, you do it, and you don't do anything-
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
... you know, you don't do anything to, to threaten their safety. And this is especially true, it is very hard to ma- hard to maintain morality, or excuse me, uh, maintain morale if anyone within the organization, whether it's the CIA case officers on the ground feeding them bad information, whether it's the person repairing your plane, trusting they're literally sweating all night that there's not gonna be a mechanical failure. And the idea that the Defense Sec- Secretary is being reckless with classified information and putting them in harm's, potentially in harm's way, and you may not even know, know how this manifests. Let's, you know, who should comment on this? Let's, uh, use, let's get Pete Hegseth's words on this. In 2016, he said the following when referencing Hillary Clinton storing confidential information on an email server. "How damaging is it to your ability to recruit or build allies with others when they are worried that our leaders may be exposing them because of their gross negligence, of their recklessness in handling information?"
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, he's such a hypocrite.
- SGScott Galloway
And, uh, he then went on to say, "The people we rely on to do dangerous and difficult things for us rely on one thing from us, that we will not reveal their identity, that we will not be reckless with the dangerous things that they're doing for us. That's the national security implications of a private server that's unsecured." I mean, this guy, uh, he literally defines hypocrisy. And, uh, then he went on to say, "If at the very top there's no accountability, then there's two tiers of justice," said Hegseth. Yeah, yeah, Pete, the Secretary Hegseth, there appears to be two tiers of justice here. And this is, you know, these, uh, uh, the people in the military have one thing in common. They all, uh, th- the most patriotic people in America are our veterans, and anyone who has kids knows why. When you make this type of investment and sacrifice in something, you become invested in its success, and that's one of the reasons I think we need mandatory national service. This guy does not appear to be invested in our success by virtue of the fact he's just so fucking reckless.
- KSKara Swisher
And then all the planes falling off of aircraft. I've never heard of this. Like, what in the world is happening? All this sloppiness.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, they'll, they'll blame it on Bernie Sanders. They'll figure out a way to... Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
They'll blame it on someone. I just, it's, I've never heard of a plane... Like, uh, when's the last time that was a story and now it's like a double story? Like, these people are sloppy in every single aspect of their lives. Anyway, uh, whatever, there'll be more of it and they'll, we'll find out. I mean, I, I'm sure our, our, our rivals are just lovin' it.
- SGScott Galloway
And they're really kind of, this, (sighs) this kid named, uh, this ROTC kid who couldn't go to college unless it had been for ROTC, Martin Ortiz, uh, my fraternity brother, this guy was so irresponsible, so reckless, so crazy, right? I mean, we were literally, uh, you know, we didn't shy away from crazy behavior in the fraternity. Everyone was scared of this guy. He would come to my apartment because he lived f- far away from his base, and he would sleep in our room on the floor, and he would wake up at 3:45 in the fucking morning after drinking all night so he could be a half an hour early at his base. Because he knew when it came to, uh, when he came to, when it came to his military service, there was no margin of error, period. No margin of error. And this is a guy who couldn't, who couldn't get a D in, in, in basic English and couldn't figure out a way to rally himself to write a paper or whatever. But when it came to the commitment to the Armed Services, the culture they have created is you have to be near perfect.
- KSKara Swisher
Yep. And Pete Hegseth is not. Anyway, whatever, it's gonna be a constant disappointment until they dump this guy, and he'll probably get dumped 'cause he dumps planes off of aircraft carriers that have cost $60 million each, that, the money that we're supposed to be saving. Anyway,
- 36:00 – 41:54
The End of the Gates Foundation
- KSKara Swisher
uh, the Gates Foundation is marking its 25th anniversary with a major announcement that will officially wind down operations and close its doors permanently in 2045, decades earlier than originally planned. In the meantime, Bill Gates has committed over $200 billion in aid over the next 20 years, astonishing number, with a focus on ending preventable deaths, eradicating infectious diseases, and lifting millions out of poverty. The announcement comes as the US foreign, uh, and foreign aid faces growing political pressures. They're cutting it everywhere, Trump administration is. Gates has been really, he's got a hair up his ass about this for sure, because in an interview with The New York Times, Gates pulled no punches about recent cuts in USAid, putting the onus on Elon Musk, saying he put, uh, he put it in the wood chipper because he didn't want, he didn't go to a party that weekend. Gates went on to say the world's richest man has been involved in the deaths of the world's poorest children. I was, like he's been a little bit more, um, like, n- Trump positive just 'cause he, he wanted to sort of get the aid back in some way. But now he's like, "Fuck it." Like, "I don't care. This is what's going on here." So, uh, the fact that w- the, the, the w- one of the other world's richest men is spending $200 billion of his money in stuff that the US government should be doing, um, a- and the fact that he's calling on Elon, I thought it was good for Gates. Good for Gates, yeah, 'cause I, I was worried he was sort of-... modulating himself in a way that I know he doesn't think. So what do you think about this?
- SGScott Galloway
There's a popular saying that, um, a society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit, and Elon Musk is, is cutting down these trees. America has been planting shade, uh, planting trees, the shade of which we will never, ever sit under. Uh, uh, George Bush with, I think it was PEPFAR, he saved tens of millions of people by making a huge investment and rallying really competent people to try and distribute, uh, AIDS cocktail drugs to people in Africa. I, I, that had no impact on me, other than it was nice that we had the ability to do it, and we used our scale and our strength and our expertise and our science and our universities to do that. Elon Musk is doing the opposite. He's cutting down the trees, the shade of which he will never sit under, 'cause his attitude is, "If it's not providing me with shade, I don't give a fuck. And I'll call it- I'll say that I'm in- I'm saving money for the government."
- KSKara Swisher
Or to go to Mars. Mars is what we really need to do, so we can save humanity.
- SGScott Galloway
When you make... There are certain investments where, if you make a small amount of mon- investment, and $75 billion is not a lot when you look at the world's issues-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... you can allocate that capital to places of such need that-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... a little bit of money has enormous ROI. When-
- KSKara Swisher
But this is 200 billion, Scott.
- SGScott Galloway
No, but-
- KSKara Swisher
In terms of Gates.
- SGScott Galloway
No, the, the... I'm talking about USAID, 75 billion.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
My point is, I, I think Gates, who's one of the most brilliant people and also, I think later in life-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... as you would hope from a man, really developed a great deal of empathy. He thought, "Okay, what could I do with my quarter of a trillion dollars in wealth? I could create other great companies. I could build the biggest VC firm in the world. I could decide who gets to be president or who doesn't." And he said, "At the margin of the efficient rontier, uh, efficient frontier, I can save tens of millions of lives because one small pill that, uh, staves off or prevents a case of malaria-"
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
"... is not that expensive in certain regions of the world."
- KSKara Swisher
Or the netting, or netting or whatever. He was doing all kinds of different things.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. Toilets. He spent a bunch of money on toilets. He's like, "It's not romantic, but if I can bring, save potable water and sanitation to certain regions, I will literally save millions of children who otherwise would have died of dysentery."
- KSKara Swisher
He's a complex guy, and, and it's not always... Listen, he was a very difficult person. I was there when he was younger and kind of a jerk. He was a jerk. Um, and all kinds of stuff he's done that is not great, uh, in lots of ways. At the same time, the transformation of this person into this kind of philanthropy is really something to see. And the fact that... Listen, it's no, it's no small risk for him to call out Musk, who has been, by the way, attacking him relentlessly with fake stuff around vaccines. M- Musk was one of, is... And Twitter has been the purveyor of this nonsense that Gates is putting chips inside of people's heads, all kinds of, like, through the vaccine. And, uh, I... The, the fact that this M- Musk, all he does is make trouble for this guy and insult him and, and create all kinds of mis- dangerous misinformation about him, and then... I'm glad he did this. I'm glad he said it 'cause it's what he thinks.
- SGScott Galloway
One of the most wonderful things about America as a society is we have created a, a complexion or a gestalt in our society where typically, as you become more powerful, there's an onus and an environment that encourages you to evolve, to become kinder. Bill Gates has become kinder. I think guys like Marc Benioff and Brian Chesky and e- even, you know... I, I, I interviewed Melinda French Gates. You can tell as they've gotten more powerful, they really take it very seriously that, "I need to evolve as a person. I need to become kinder." The worst thing that can happen in a society is where you create a gestalt that, "Okay, once I become president or once I become the wealthiest man in the world, I digress."
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
"I become an even bigger asshole."
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
"I become even more damaging-"
- KSKara Swisher
Take more.
- SGScott Galloway
"... to the world." And it's not an... I, I, I gotta think, quite frankly, and this is more of a philosophical question, what is it about our society where we are evolving this new species of man in the United States where, as they become more powerful... Even the robber barons, who were not nice people, once they achieved a certain level of power, they did flip the switch and think, "How can I build big projects and big universities that would help society?" And these guys are not thinking that way.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. If only someone had a book coming out in November that discussed what kind of men we should be. Uh...
- SGScott Galloway
God.
- 41:54 – 45:37
Disney and Uber Earnings
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, we're back. Disney is out with its latest earnings. I'd love to hear what you think about this. The company reported $23 billion in revenue, up 7% from a year ago, and $3.2 billion in net income, a big turnaround from the net loss of $20 million last year. These numbers were fueled by higher streaming profit. That seems to be doing well. Good bet by Bob Iger. Domestic theme parks and home video sales of Moana 2. I can tell you, I've watched it 109,000 times. And speaking of theme parks, Disney has also announced plans for its, a new park in Abu Dhabi. That makes sense, its seventh theme park resort. I thought they had one there. I don't know why. Disney is often seen as a bellwether for consumer confidence. These numbers tell you consumers aren't too worried, or is it just another calm voice from earnings report? Um, I'm gonna add in Uber's earnings too. The company reported $11.5 billion in revenue, up 14% year over year. Good... Not a huge company, but a good solid revenue thing, but slightly below Wall Street's expectations. Total bookings grew 14% to 42 billion. Um, that's the amount, and then they have to take out blah, blah, blah. They, they have to pay drivers, et cetera. Uh, Uber has also just announced a joint venture with Chinese self-driving car company Pony.ai to roll out robo-taxis in Mi- Middle Eastern markets. So looks like Uber is becoming the partner for all these things like Waymo and, and, and, uh, what Pony.ai is doing around the world. So, um...I- I'd love to hear what you, um, what you think about. And then we have another listener, uh, prediction around earnings. But first Disney and then Uber.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, Uber w- Uber just sort of barely missed expectations. I would argue they met expectations. And what's interesting about Uber is their relationship with all the... They're striking up with all these different autonomous driving company. It feels like... There's an old Hemingway line. Uh, "How did you go bankrupt? Gradually, then suddenly is the answer." It feels like the autonomous wars have been slow and now it feels like it's about we're on the eve of war among, uh, autonomous, whether it's Uber doing deals, Waymo, at some point Musk will enter. It feels like autonomous-
- KSKara Swisher
Waymo and Uber have a deal. Like because they're the reservation system.
- SGScott Galloway
Right.
- KSKara Swisher
Like that's what-
- SGScott Galloway
They're the front end.
- KSKara Swisher
I've always thought Uber was the reservation system-
- SGScott Galloway
That's right.
- KSKara Swisher
... for someone or a lot-
- SGScott Galloway
And they are closer to the consumer and you're used to, you're used to just booking a car on them. But I- it, th- that's what I took away from the Uber earnings, but I didn't-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I didn't think they were that interesting. The more, really the more interesting one-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... was the surprise of the upside from Disney and that is their stock popped 10%. It's a-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
A- after really touching kind of 10-year lows.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Revenue up 7%. Uh, the Disney+ uh-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... not only raised prices but grew their subscriber base, which a lot of us weren't expecting.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, Hulu added over one million subscribers. But the real story here is that I think strategically they're being very smart 'cause what are they doing? They're leaning into their core advantage and point of differentiation and that's its parks business. Uh, parks was mentioned five times more in this earnings call than the prior quarters call because they realized that Netflix isn't opening a park. Alpha- Meta can. It takes 10 years, 20 years maybe to build a park like this. Their cruise line is killing it. Um, and they also realize, quite frankly, they're probably always gonna be a distant two or three maybe if they're lucky in streaming, but they can be number one and command unfair margins in their parks unit and their parks unit is just killing it. And to Bob Iger's credit, this was, this was the strongest earnings call Disney has had in a long time. And that is okay, the streaming is no longer a sinkhole of capital and we are. We o- our parks business, which is truly differentiated and singular-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... is killing it. So good, good for them. I, I, you know, I-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think he's... And then we'll f- see who takes over, but he, he's, you know, he's a pro. This man is a pro.
- 45:37 – 49:59
Headed for Recession?
- KSKara Swisher
Um, uh, okay, Scott, while we're on the topic of earnings, let's hear from another prediction from a listener. This one about the economy. Let's play it. By the way, our listeners are so smart.
- RGRich (caller from Germany)
Hi Kara and Scott. This is Rich, an American living in Germany since 2016. My prediction is that the US falls into a recession, possibly even worse than 2008. On the consumer side, tariffs push prices even higher after years of inflation, crushing demands. Businesses cut jobs even more than they are already due to tariffs and AI. Then on the credit side, investors demand higher yields after we voluntarily drive our economy off a cliff. Unlike 2008 though, the Fed can't just cut rates in a stagflationary environment. We're stuck in a vicious cycle, or Zwei Flüsse Kreuz, as Kara knows.
- KSKara Swisher
Zwei Flüsse Kreuz. Mm-hmm. Scott, this is, this is... You know, most people are, can't tell if we're gonna run into this recessionary environment. Um, it f- it certainly feels like that's what we're being set up for unless he does something. I mean, he, this is self-in- self-inflicted, of course.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, there's, there's sort of the known unknowns and then the unknown unknowns and it's usually-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... the unknown unknowns that, that get you. But in terms of the known unknowns, the fulcrum here about whether we probably go into a recession or stagflation is this nonsense around, around tariffs and what happens. If anything resembling the proposed tariffs actually sticks, you're gonna see an increase in inflation, an increase in interest rates and a decline in the economy. The word for that that most young people don't know is stagflation. And when you have stagflation, when the economy is shrinking even as interest rates go up, which is the worst of... That's, you know, that's nitroglycerin for an economy. You have to sacrifice jobs and massively increase interest rates because basically typically what the Fed says is, "We will opt for lower or higher unemployment versus higher inflation." That's the real danger. In my opinion, if we go into recession, uh, that's a, that's something that's supposed to happen every seven years. It brings down prices. Quite frankly, it gives young people over the medium term a little bit of an opportunity to buy into assets at a lower price. I don't think recession is the worst thing that could happen to us. If you look at the Fed's, uh, notes or, or Chairman Powell's notes yesterday, he essentially said, "We're in a bit of a vibe session." And Kyla Scanlon, who I love, this young, uh, woman who does a ton of great, um, work on, uh, economics. Uh, essentially, consumer confidence is at a low since COVID. The uncertainty index is at a high since the '80s. But if you look at the underlying data, if you look at employment, if you look at retail sales, if you look at spending, quite frankly the economy still looks pretty strong right now. And so he, he kept interest rates, he kept interest rates flat. So this is all about in the short term unless, you know, if... Look, if there's a nuclear detonation on the, on the Indian-Pakistani border, all bets are off, right? But in terms of where we are economically right now, the fulcrum or the arbiter will be just how fucking insane, how down crazy road we travel with these, um, with these tariffs. So w- we'll see, but the thing I'm most scared of, um, is not a recession. I actually think that recessions, I think we're due for not an extended recession. Housing prices and stock prices need to come down such that people like you and me, Kara, maybe transfer a little bit of our wealth and create some opportunity for younger people who want to buy their own homes and buy their own stocks.... I don't think that'd be the worst thing in the world. What would be nearly the worst thing for the economy would be a spike in interest rates as the economy goes, goes down. And the thing ... What's so interesting is, any economist under the age of 50 doesn't even know the word stagflation. They don't even think it can happen.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
It can happen. It happened in the '70s.
- KSKara Swisher
It's like a horror movie, Stagflation. I feel like Besson's got the upper hand here, Besson and Rubio, over the crazies, I think, I suspect. A little bit more so.
- SGScott Galloway
It's the 10-year. It's the bond.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
If, if the bond market starts spiking, they all freak out.
- KSKara Swisher
They all freak out. You're right. But I'm saying, with the te- with it having to do with Trump's crazy, he seems a little more willing to deal, besides himself, self-deal. Um, in any case, um, we'll see. We'll see. Great, great ... Thank you so much, Rich. That was really great. Um,
- 49:59 – 54:18
Meta’s “Creepy” AI
- KSKara Swisher
very quickly, the new Meta, uh, AI app is creepy, according to a detailed account in The Washington Post. Speaking of, of these AI stuff that, where Meta probably will dominate in many ways. The app assures personalized AI and delivers via personal information from Facebook and Instagram and memory files where details about users are kept. Geoffrey Fowler, who wrote The Post, the article, found his memory file contained interests like natural fertility techniques, divorce, and payday loans. Uh, Meta (laughs) also feeds conversations back about Meta's AI training system without an option to opt out. I ... Like, I know you're saying they're gonna dominate. There is ... The thing I worry about, you always say, "Oh, I loaded this up, I loaded that up." And I'm always like, "I'm not loading my stuff up." You know, and you can pay a little more to ChatGPT so they don't train on your data, and they allegedly protect it. Um, I would not load up, like, what I ate for lunch yesterday to Meta. I have to say. I mean, except for Instagram and Threads, which I use largely for marketing. Um, I gotta say, I'm not loading a damn thing up to this person because of the way it was used and the lack of any guardrails. I, I would never use their AI app. I don't know how you feel about it, but you're very ... You're much more promiscuous in loading up your information, so.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. My attitude is violate my privacy as long as I can see that my QX60 is one minute away. I, I could just get high. I could just eat edibles and order Ubers and watch how close my car is.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
I find it fucking fascinating. I'm like, "Why is he making a right turn on Broom? Doesn't he know where he's going?"
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) Those are fake maps to see ...
- SGScott Galloway
I, I find that shit fascinating. And occasionally, I have a moment, I'm like, "How do they know?" Like, uh, you know, "How do they know I have prostatitis?" How are they know ... I mean, I find the shit fascinating.
- KSKara Swisher
Mine is food p- food porn, like people making food, uh, tool tips, t- tip, like little hacks, hardware hacks, and Mission: Impossible.
- SGScott Galloway
Dockers.
- KSKara Swisher
Mission: Impossible. Dockers. Which is coming out May 23rd, and I'm going by myself, just so everybody knows. Do not speak to me on May 23rd. I'm going to see The Final Reckoning, and I'm gonna probably see it twice. But go ahead, Scott. So, so what do you think about this, this, this app? Are you gonna use it? You probably will.
- SGScott Galloway
Look, I, I am ... Uh, I, I do a talk ... I was just in Hamburg, Germany.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And I do a talk on ... Everyone want- everyone wanted to know, had two, you know ... Questions really around two topics in the Q&A. "What the fuck is going on in America?" And they wanna know about AI.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And I've said-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, that's about right.
- SGScott Galloway
... I'm an AI optimist for the most part. I don't think it's gonna turn on us. I don't see any reason why AI can't be used to create defensive measures, against offensive measures. I don't think it's ever gonna become sentient. I think in the short run, it'll destr- destroy jobs. But like every other technology, it'll create, in my opinion-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... more jobs than it destroys over the medium and the long term. The biggest threat of AI is that it's going to speedball loneliness. And that is ... I'm, I'm frustrated. I can't ... I don't have friends. I, I can't figure out the social pecking order. I, I am really upset. I don't have a girlfriend, so I have this incredible, uh, AI girlfriend that's a mix of porn, and maybe I even have an AI robot/sex doll. And I never developed the skills or take the risk to establish a romantic relationship. And this is the fear. This is what young men have fighting against them, is they have the deepest-pocketed, most talented people in the world trying to convince them they can have a reasonable facsimile of life with no human contact. You need, you need the community.
- KSKara Swisher
So, you're not concerned with loading your stuff up (laughs) , which is my question.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, okay, it's too late for me.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And not only that, quite frankly, I have economic security and people who love me unconditionally. So I, I'm there. I'm at the promised land. What I'm worried about is young men who are struggling to find a connection to school, to work, or to other people, and get a reasonable facsimile of that dopa hit that you get from a relationship. From Reddit, Discord, porn, Robin Hood. "Oh, I'm, I'm not gambling, I'm investing." And they spend all of their time in their basement, never going through the hardship of trying to make-
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, agreed.
- SGScott Galloway
... relationships work.
- KSKara Swisher
L- Let me say. We have to move on, but Scott ... Every ... Scott will be everybody's friend-
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
... next friend. Just so you know, Scott is everybody's friend. I'm very unfriendly, but Scott will be everybody's friend. Um, okay. Uh, w- I'm not using that app, uh, that's all I'm saying. Uh, all right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions, including one more listener prediction.
- 54:18 – 1:06:25
Predictions
- KSKara Swisher
We're gonna do a prediction now, Scott. I'm gonna do a very brief one.
- SGScott Galloway
Okay.
- KSKara Swisher
They're giving out Golden Globes for best podcast next year. I think we need to win, even though we're not in the top 20. You have to be in the top 25 to be in it. Um, we have to get to the top 25.
- SGScott Galloway
The top 25 most listened?
- KSKara Swisher
Yes. Apparently. Some dumb criteria.
- SGScott Galloway
It's all fucking crazy right-wingers that are in the top 25.
- KSKara Swisher
I know that. Exactly. So we need to, we need to lobby these people, because-
- SGScott Galloway
What about the top 25 revenue? Because the thing is, the people who listen to those people-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... don't have any money unless they're like-
- KSKara Swisher
That's correct.
- SGScott Galloway
... looking for dental implants or, like, trucker hats. What about the top 25 in terms of revenue?
- KSKara Swisher
So, we need to kiss up to the Golden Globe people, all those foreign press associates.
- SGScott Galloway
Let's threaten to tariff them. Let's threaten to tariff awards ceremonies.
- KSKara Swisher
Let's tariff them. We wanna come ... We are so much fun at a party, we would have such a ... We would be so good at a Golden Globe. We will drink, we will cause problems, et cetera, et cetera.
- SGScott Galloway
So Much is doing a lot of work there, but okay.
- KSKara Swisher
We ... You will drink and I will drag you-
- SGScott Galloway
You fall asleep on the couch. Everyone's wondering who the nine-year-old boy-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... who is asleep on the couch ... And everyone's like, "Who's the guy just at the bar who won't leave?"
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) That's correct. Um, and as I said, I will be at Mission: Impossible. One thing I will ... I'm gonna do a quick prediction. I was talking to the people at Aurora, which is the self-driving, um, trucks.
- SGScott Galloway
Truck driving.
- KSKara Swisher
Um, everyone's focused on self-driving cars, but these driverless runs of trucks, they're now going on every day between Dallas and Houston. Um, I just think that's something that isn't, uh, focused in on. Um, they hauled pastries. The first driverless haul transported pastries. This is an area nobody's paying attention to. I think that is the real money, is, is that kind of stuff.... 'cause that's where it's gonna be. That's where we really do need these, these driverless things going on. Um, and, and I- I'm excited by driverless cars in cities. I am, personally. But I think that's where the big money is gonna be. That's where you should be focusing in on if you're interested in the sector. All right, Scott. Make a prediction.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, this first 100 days of the Trump Administration, mostly using the vehicle of the Trump Coin, will go down in history as the greatest grift in the history of our economy-
- KSKara Swisher
Yes.
- SGScott Galloway
... in terms of the amount of money stolen and the size of it over the shortest period.
- KSKara Swisher
Billions.
- SGScott Galloway
Just some, just some data here. Uh, so Trump-affiliated entities have made at least $300 million. This is distinct to the value of his stake in Trump Coin in trading fees. The Trump family's net worth has increased by $3 billion, or $1 billion a month, since he took, uh, um, he took office. Uh, just some timeline. The Trump Coin launched on a Friday night under cover of dark with all the news about the inauguration. By 3:00 AM on Sunday, it was valued at more than 70 billion. And there were a small number of coins, uh, a small number of investors who made large investments on a Friday. Maybe they got a tip or something. They made, they made 10s if not 100s of millions. And then, over the course of the next couple weeks, about 800,000 smaller investors lost billions. So that's-
- KSKara Swisher
Is this the Melania Coin one? Is this the-
- SGScott Galloway
The Melania Coin, two dozen traders made al- almost $100 million-
Episode duration: 1:06:25
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