The Dangers of Elon Musk and Donald Trump's Growing Alliance | Pivot

1. 0:00 – 0:30

   Brazil upholds nationwide X ban: what triggered it and why it matters

   1. KSKara Swisher0:00

      Brazil's Supreme Court has unanimously, uh, voted to uphold a nationwide ban on Elon Musk's X. The social platform was suspended in Brazil late last week over concerns about disinformation and X's refusal to appoint a local legal representative. Elon's other companies are also impacted. SpaceX has moved to evacuate workers from Brazil, it's quite dramatic of them, um, and warned employees against traveling to the country. Starlink initially said they would defy the ban, but later backtracked and is now complying. Starlink is, uh, is a division of SpaceX, by the way. Um, talk a little bit

2. 0:30 – 1:16

   Musk’s selective “free speech” stance and the Washington Post editorial critique

   1. KSKara Swisher0:30

      about this. Uh, do you think the ban is justified? It will set a precedent for other, uh, countries to deal with Elon. Now, I'm gonna te- say two things before we go, because the Washington Post had the single stupidest editorial that I've seen of this. You might agree with Elon on this one, but he goes around the world and does- censors when certain countries ask him to and doesn't when others do. So his whole free speech warrior thing is a canard. And, and I, I will not accept anyone saying, uh, that he's- he could- a broken clock could be right twice, uh, twice a day, but in this case when he's in India or Turkey, he completely cooperates and, and actually X is one of the bigger cooperators with autocratic, uh, governments in, in censoring. So his excuse here is 'cause he doesn't like the government. Uh, but go ahead.

3. 1:16 – 1:50

   What Brazil actually asked for: legal representation and a process for requests

   1. SGScott Galloway1:16

      Y- you just stole all my thunder. Uh, y- I think you're exactly right. Your point is he's incredibly cynical, 'cause when Erdogan or Modi or any other autocrat says, "I'd rather you just not do this," he's like, "No problem." (laughs) No problem. So this- i- he's totally inconsistent here. And to be clear, what they asked him to do was they asked him, um, to appoint a legal representative to deal with reque- to deal with requests to take down accounts allegedly involved in spreading political misinformation. They didn't, they didn't mandate they take it down. They're like, "We just want somebody to deal with..." And here's the thing-

4. 1:50 – 2:08

   Arrest fears and whether they’re credible in Brazil

   1. KSKara Swisher1:50

      Well, it's because they're scared about them being arrested, 'cause, you know, they were arrested-

   2. SGScott Galloway1:54

      That's a fair point.

   3. KSKara Swisher1:54

      ... in other parts of the world. Um, it- this is China, though. Come on. Brazil is not gonna arrest-

   4. SGScott Galloway1:59

      No, I don't think so either.

   5. KSKara Swisher1:59

      ... the, the representative from, from X.

   6. SGScott Galloway2:02

      But-

   7. KSKara Swisher2:02

      They're just not gonna do it. And that's, that's the re- that's his excuse, just so you're aware. I just wanna be fair.

5. 2:08 – 2:43

   On-the-ground reality: Brazilians don’t rely on X, and substitutes are plentiful

   1. SGScott Galloway2:08

      But I was down there. I, I think he'd have a solid case in court, but to your point, it's just totally inconsistent. And I don't know how he behaves in other countries is relevant in a Brazilian court. But here's the thing. I was in Brazil when this happened and this is pulse marketing. I talked to quite a few people at this conference. I went to the XP Conference, that's 50,000 people there, and no one- we're talking more about it than they are. You know why? They don't care. They use WhatsApp, they use Instagram.

   2. KSKara Swisher2:35

      They moved to, they moved to, um, uh, Bluesky. A lot of the- Bluesky and Threads saw a big bump, but especially Bluesky.

   3. SGScott Galloway2:42

      But it's just not-

   4. KSKara Swisher2:43

      Just for people who-

6. 2:43 – 3:13

   A broader crackdown on tech exceptionalism (Telegram, Google, NVIDIA)

   1. SGScott Galloway2:43

      It's just not a relevant... It's a platform that is either not used or is easily substitutable. So it wasn't like people were running around angry at the government that they don't have their Twitter. Uh, I think this is, this is part of a more meta-trend, and it's the following. Whether it's the CEO of Telegram being arrested, whether it's Google being found guilty of monopoly maintenance, uh, whether it's a, a DOJ reaching out to NVIDIA, people have just decided they're fed up with

7. 3:13 – 3:41

   Why personalize a fight with a Brazilian judge? Shareholder value vs. ego

   1. SGScott Galloway3:13

      a distinct set of rules and behavior for someone who is in technology versus the rest of us or technology firms. And I think this is just a continuation of that strategy. And his, his lack of concern around, I don't know if he's trying to be brilliant here and get a lot of press and say, "I'm a free speech warrior, I'm not afraid to take on Brazil," but he's gotten into- if you were a board, you'd be- say, "Why are you get- personalizing this and getting into a pissing match with a judge in Brazil?"

   2. KSKara Swisher3:39

      Yeah.

   3. SGScott Galloway3:39

      How does that serve shareholder value?

8. 3:41 – 4:11

   Lula’s message: countries aren’t obliged to tolerate Musk because he’s rich

   1. KSKara Swisher3:41

      He also acts li- he also treated it as if he was gonna invade Brazil. But, uh, this is- I thought was the best quote, was Brazilian president, uh, let me pronounce this correctly, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva.

   2. SGScott Galloway3:52

      Lulu.

   3. KSKara Swisher3:52

      Um, he said, "The Brazilian just-"

   4. SGScott Galloway3:54

      Lula.

   5. KSKara Swisher3:55

      Lulu. Uh, Lula, Lula. "The Brazilian justice system may have, uh, given an important signal that the world is not obliged to put up with Musk's extreme right-wing anything, anything," sorry, "anything goes just because he is rich." I thought he- that was a perfect sentence, as far as I th- I, I thought it was a great sentence.

9. 4:11 – 5:16

   The bigger risk: Starlink as leverage over nations and critical infrastructure

   1. SGScott Galloway4:11

      Well, but, but the fear here, or the bigger concern in my view, is what happens when Starlink, which is a superior product, is, uh, contracted, engaged, and used to download important data, uh, and basically operate or be the b- backbone of say hospital systems in Rio, and something like this happens. And I wouldn't put, put it past Musk to say, "You know what? I'm gonna turn off Starlink. And oh, if that means a bunch of hospital systems and your aircraft can't land, so be it."

   2. KSKara Swisher4:40

      Yeah.

   3. SGScott Galloway4:41

      And this is, this is the danger when one person aggregates too much wealth or power. I think the, I think the leverage he's gonna have, quite frankly, around Starlink is much more frightening. And th- the fact that he...

   4. KSKara Swisher4:56

      Well, they- though the country threatened to take over the land.

   5. SGScott Galloway4:58

      Well, the cash, right?

   6. KSKara Swisher4:59

      Uh, there, there's a bunch of, uh, uh- no, no, not just the cash, but there's installations in Brazil that allow it to work better and they were just gonna take over their like-

   7. SGScott Galloway5:07

      Well, well, well, they have leverage over him right now because of nascent Starlink assets.

   8. KSKara Swisher5:11

      Mm-hmm.

   9. SGScott Galloway5:11

      At some point, I think he's gonna have leverage over nations because of Starlink.

10. 5:16 – 5:46

    Kara’s prescription: stop doing foreign policy and just sell the products

    1. KSKara Swisher5:16

       Oh, uh, you know, they have to have installations on the ground. They can always take those over. You know, I, I think it's, it's, it's stupid that he's fighting. It's- he should sell his product and stop politicizing everything. That's- my feeling is he's got a great product, stop involving himself in every- he's fighting with Venezuela, he's fighting with Brazil, he's sucking up to India and Turkey. Like, he's fighting- he fought with Ukraine, but then didn't fight Ukraine. He should get the fuck out of foreign policy and just sell his stuff. That's my feeling. Um, but he's not gonna do that 'cause

11. 5:46 – 6:29

    Musk–Trump alignment: the ‘government efficiency commission’ and conflict-of-interest alarms

    1. KSKara Swisher5:46

       his role in the potential Donald Trump administration is becoming more clear.Trump is set to share plans for government efficiency commission that Elon recommended in a speech at the Economic Club of New York this week, according to the Wall Street Journal. Elon weighed in on X saying, "I look forward to serving America if the opportunity arises. No pay, no title, no recognition is needed." What a crock of shit. All he wants is recognition. If he had been hugged more as a child, we'd all be in a better s- position, uh, with this guy. Um, y- you know, he's g- he's gonna, he's gonna fix our government, which is, is so full of conflicts of interest, I don't even wanna say. He's got defense contracts, he's got space contracts, he's got, uh, car... You know, e- he should not be... He could be on a commission, but to have any real power would be terrifying.

12. 6:29 – 7:14

    Skepticism about ‘ending subsidies’ and what ‘efficiency’ would look like under Musk

    1. SGScott Galloway6:29

       So what I don't get is he claims that he wants to do away with all subsidies. Does that mean he's gonna give a half a billion dollars back to the government for the subsidies he's received? I don't... This is all so cynical.

    2. KSKara Swisher6:39

       Yeah. Mm-hmm.

    3. SGScott Galloway6:39

       And what, what is the strategy here? He's gonna lay off 80% of government employees and not pay them severance, their legally obligated severance? Is he gonna accuse-

    4. KSKara Swisher6:46

       That's what he does with his own employees.

    5. SGScott Galloway6:47

       ... employees working in our civil service, in our Defense Department, uh, incorrectly of being sex criminals? Like, what does it mean when you're gonna ask him-

    6. KSKara Swisher6:55

       Yeah.

    7. SGScott Galloway6:55

       ... to help with efficiency?

    8. KSKara Swisher6:57

       Thank you.

    9. SGScott Galloway6:57

       I just, uh, I, this is, uh it- it's sorta typical of both of them. I think it's just a gigantic press release.

    10. KSKara Swisher7:06

        Mm-hmm.

    11. SGScott Galloway7:07

        Um, I, I mean, it, we, we... (laughs) It's like, it's like shocking but not surprising, this shit. It's like nothing surprises me anymore, re-

    12. KSKara Swisher7:13

        Yeah.

    13. SGScott Galloway7:13

        ... regardless of how ridiculous it is.

13. 7:14 – 8:07

    Extremism content risk and looming EU consequences; why the Trump–Musk partnership may implode

    1. KSKara Swisher7:14

       Yeah, these two are linked together in a way that is really not gonna be good for either of them, I think, personally. I think it'll d- it'll end in disaster. By the way, one more thing before I forget. Um, h- Elon did... Tucker Carlson did a heinous interview with a, uh, with a historian who believes that Churchill-

    2. SGScott Galloway7:29

       The Hitler apologist. (laughs)

    3. KSKara Swisher7:29

       ... not Hitler... Yeah, Hitler apologist. And Elon retweeted it and then promptly took it down, um, pretty quickly. And let me tell you why. This is the kinda shit that gets you banned in Europe, because Germany, everyone was... I, I know there was a big group of people from the right that won in Germany, but this stuff is no, no kidding in Europe on this stuff. And so, if he wants to get in a fight now, he wants to get in a land war with Europe now, that's where it's headed. So, the, you know, this, this guy is gonna suck all the, uh, the attention away from Trump, uh, which I think is where the- they're gonna fight.

Episode duration: 8:07