Trump Says U.S. Is “In Charge” of Venezuela — But What Happens Next? | Pivot

1. 0:00 – 1:06

   Intro

   1. KSKara Swisher0:00

      I wonder if Donald Trump is watching Heated Rivalry. Interesting. (instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and welcome to 2026. Scott is still away at, uh, undisclosed location. I can't go into it, but there's so much going on that I've assembled a super group of smart folks to help me cover it all. We've got Don Lemon from The Don Lemon Show, Stephanie Ruhle from MS NOW's The 11th Hour, and Brooke Hamerlin, communication specialist, podcaster, and culture guru

   2. DLDon Lemon0:38

      Mm-hmm.

   3. KSKara Swisher0:39

      ... time, the Pop Culture Mondays newsletter. I want to talk about 2026 going forward so I put this team together that could talk about anything. Welcome everybody. We've got to dig into a bunch of things and each, everyone's gonna sort of focus on Stephanie with business, Don in politics, Brooke with culture, but anybody could weigh in on anything at all. So any thoughts would be great. Um, so President Trump says the U.S. is in qu- is, quote, "in charge of Venezuela" following the capture of Venezuelan President

2. 1:06 – 14:33

   U.S. “In Charge” of Venezuela

   1. KSKara Swisher1:06

      Nicolás Maduro and his wife over the weekend. As we record, the two are set to be arraigned in a Manhattan federal court on drug trafficking weapons charges. Trump is also putting pressure on Venezuela's acting leader, warning if she doesn't do what's right, she's gonna pay a very big price. I don't know what that means. He's not backing Venezuela's opposition leader, reportedly because he's annoyed she won the Nobel Prize over him and then didn't give it to him. Trump is now threatening Colombia- Colombia, uh, saying, and saying Cuba looks like it's, quote, "ready to fall" and talking about taking Greenland again. I don't know what's in his wheaties. It seems to be part of his Donrow Doctrine as he's coined it, after the Monroe Doctrine for those who know history. Um, it sounds just as idiotic as it seems. Uh, Don, let's start with you. There's a lot to get through, but let's start with the big picture. What is happening over there at the White House and what do you make of all this? Obviously, there's Epstein issues, uh, economy issues, healthcare issues that he may be trying to avoid, but thoughts?

   2. DLDon Lemon2:02

      Well, I think the obvious is that it's chaos. I mean, it, it's chaotic for the country. It's, it's bad for the country. Um, I think that, I believe, and I think, Kara, maybe you, you have said this as well, and I agree with you if you did sa- say it, is that I, I think that Donald Trump i- has been surprised by how much he's been able to get away with. And every time he gets away with something, it emboldens him to do something else, uh, to do something that's even worse. I was listening to uh, uh, uh um, a podcast over the holidays, and it had quotes from Barack Obama, uh, in there. And everything he said about what was gonna happen in the second, uh, Donald Trump administration really came true. And he said, and I'm, I'm paraphrasing here. He said, "We've seen this movie before, and we know the sequel is always worse." And so the more Donald Trump gets away with, if he is allowed to pardon people and there's not enough uproar about it and nothing happens and he's gonna, um, uh, pick, he's gonna arrest people without due process on the streets or detain them, uh, even if they're American citizens, or he's going to invade sovereign countries. Now I think everyone on this panel and everyone can agree that something needed to be done about Maduro. He's a bad person. But it's just the way that he did it. And, um, look, how can a tyrant... (laughs)

   3. KSKara Swisher3:15

      Right.

   4. DLDon Lemon3:16

      ... arrest or detain-

   5. KSKara Swisher3:17

      A tyrant.

   6. DLDon Lemon3:17

      ... another tyrant?

   7. KSKara Swisher3:19

      Right.

   8. DLDon Lemon3:19

      It doesn't make sense and look-

   9. KSKara Swisher3:20

      Rather easily as it turns out, right?

   10. DLDon Lemon3:21

       Rather easily, and, and just real quickly, what he's doing though I believe is setting a precedent because, um, from, from the, from what he said is that Maduro was this and that, he's a tyrant, and he was a criminal and he did all these things. He'd, um, he tried to overturn an election or he did, he influenced an election, which is the very same things that Donald Trump-

   11. KSKara Swisher3:38

       Mm-hmm.

   12. DLDon Lemon3:38

       ... tried to do. And he's also a criminal.

   13. KSKara Swisher3:40

       Yeah.

   14. DLDon Lemon3:40

       So why-

   15. KSKara Swisher3:40

       Which Gavin Newsom pointed out online. Uh, in a-

   16. DLDon Lemon3:42

       So, so why does Donald Trump get to get away with it and Maduro doesn't? It doesn't make sense.

   17. KSKara Swisher3:48

       So Stephanie, I mean-

   18. DLDon Lemon3:49

       Make it make sense.

   19. KSKara Swisher3:50

       Make it make sense, yeah. Make it make sense, Stephanie. Tr-

   20. DLDon Lemon3:52

       Make it make sense-

   21. KSKara Swisher3:52

       Trump wants U.S. oil companies, they've talked about that, into Venezuela-

   22. DLDon Lemon3:55

       It's all about the oil.

   23. KSKara Swisher3:55

       ... to rebuild the industry, and that happened in I think '98. Um, as of this recording, oil stocks are surging and the price of oil is holding steady. Um, talk a little bit about the business implications, because most people feel like it's about oil, but I think it's about a whole lot more than just that. Obviously they've been-

   24. DLDon Lemon4:11

       Well, what it's not about is drugs.

   25. KSKara Swisher4:14

       Mm-hmm.

   26. DLDon Lemon4:14

       Right. Right? Donald Trump, uh, over a dozen times this weekend said oil. Uh, we heard Marco Rubio say this is about freeing oil for the people. What people?

   27. KSKara Swisher4:24

       Mm-hmm.

   28. DLDon Lemon4:25

       And to me, one of the biggest tells was on Air Force One when Donald Trump was asked, "Did you speak to American oil businesses before?" And he said, "I spoke to them before, and I spoke to them after." To them after, yeah.

   29. KSKara Swisher4:38

       Mm-hmm.

   30. DLDon Lemon4:38

       Okay? Congress was not notified, but businesses were. Yeah. That's how autocracies run. That is not how a democracy runs, and it's important to remember that American oil companies entered into risky deals to develop oil, Venezuelan oil-
3. 14:33 – 28:11

   “Heated Rivalry”

   1. KSKara Swisher14:33

      lighter. We have, uh, all the time to take a lot ... Uh, we had a lot of time to take in more TV shows and movies over the holiday break. Um, uh, let's talk about the breakout star of the past few weeks, Heated Rivalry, which is your favorite thing. Um, also Don's apparently. Uh, Stephanie, you can weigh in too. Uh, explain v- very briefly the cultural impact of the show, and talk what it means from a business perspective. This was a low-budget Canadian production, not unlike KPop Demon Hunter. Same thing.

   2. BHBrooke Hammerling14:59

      Right. Right.

   3. KSKara Swisher15:00

      Canadian and American.

   4. BHBrooke Hammerling15:00

      Well, Stephanie said earlier what was the occupying the minds of American people. This is what's occupying the minds of American people, which is Heated Rivalry, a gay hockey drama series coming out of Canada. A lot of people think it's HBO because it's been distributed by HBO, but it was made by this streaming-

   5. KSKara Swisher15:18

      Here in this country. Yeah.

   6. BHBrooke Hammerling15:19

      Yeah, in the US. It's dis- ... It was made by this streaming platform in Canada called, uh, Crave. And it costs three to five million an episode. Uh, w- compare that to Stranger Things, which I think was like 50 million an episode.

   7. KSKara Swisher15:32

      Just had its finale, yeah.

   8. BHBrooke Hammerling15:34

      And what is, what is dominating the conversation? Right now, it's heated rivalry in every aspect. I mean, people are j- ... Like, Don, you've re-watched it, right? This is a phenomenon. People are re-watching it. People are not just watching the series.

   9. DLDon Lemon15:48

      As the expert, as the expert gay man on this (laughs) , on the panel-

   10. BHBrooke Hammerling15:51

       No, but you know what's so interesting?

   11. DLDon Lemon15:51

       ... I have to say, but it's not just. That's when you said it was a gay story. It's actually a love story.

   12. KSKara Swisher15:56

       Yes, straight people.

   13. BHBrooke Hammerling15:56

       It's a love story.

   14. DLDon Lemon15:57

       Yeah.

   15. KSKara Swisher15:57

       Yes.

   16. BHBrooke Hammerling15:57

       It is a love story, but people are calling it the gay hockey show. But-

   17. DLDon Lemon16:00

       Yeah.

   18. SRStephanie Ruhle16:00

       But it is sex heavy. It is sex heavy.

   19. BHBrooke Hammerling16:02

       It is, but the most important episode of that, Episode 5, had no sex. And what you're seeing, I think it's a really interesting thing. I mean, first of all, do you know that f- ... According to Pornhub, 47% of viewers of gay porn are straight women.

   20. KSKara Swisher16:17

       Right.

   21. SRStephanie Ruhle16:18

       Yeah.

   22. BHBrooke Hammerling16:18

       So that's-

   23. KSKara Swisher16:19

       Can't believe it.

   24. BHBrooke Hammerling16:19

       You know, that's just the way it is.

   25. DLDon Lemon16:20

       And straight women are talking about this show. Straight women love this show. But Brooke, let me, let me, let me ... I wanna challenge you on this. Is it sex heavy, or is it just people ... Is it just that people are not used to seeing gay sex, right? Because I've seen, I've seen straight shows that have lots of sex, more sex than this show, and no one says it's sex heavy. It's just that they're, they're maybe not used to seeing gay men being intimate on screen in, in that way.

   26. BHBrooke Hammerling16:46

       I think Kara's favorite show, Hunting Wives, walked so, so that these boys could run. (laughs)

   27. KSKara Swisher16:52

       That was the, that was the amuse-bouche to this, right?

   28. SRStephanie Ruhle16:56

       My experience in watching Hunting Wives-

   29. BHBrooke Hammerling16:58

       Yeah.

   30. SRStephanie Ruhle16:58

       Where I would leave, like, my family room and watch it in a private area.
4. 28:11 – 40:10

   Biggest Stories of 2026

   1. BHBrooke Hammerling28:11

      Don, Stephanie, Brooke, we're back. Moving along, it's a new year. I want, uh, to know what each of you think will be the biggest stories of 2026. I want you to spin it forward. Don, you'll start. Politics or whatever. I d- Whatever you think. But let's ... Uh, politics would be great, but whatever you think is the biggest story going forward.

   2. DLDon Lemon28:27

      Well, I think the biggest story going forward is gonna be the fracturing of MAGA. It's already started. The MAGA media, uh, starting with the Megyn Kellys and the Candace Owens and the Benny Johnsons of the world.

   3. BHBrooke Hammerling28:39

      Yeah, they're beefing.

   4. DLDon Lemon28:39

      I ... Yeah, they're beefing, and I think that that is, that is the beginning of the end of MAGA. That's what I believe the biggest story is going to be moving forward.

   5. BHBrooke Hammerling28:46

      Yeah, okay. All right.

   6. SRStephanie Ruhle28:47

      Okay, for me, you know, I'm gonna pick the economy because at the end of the day, I think how people vote i- i- i- is truly rooted in their pocketbook and, and how they live. And what's interesting is the economy is growing, but its growth is fragile, and it's really in the palm of Trump's hands. Like, whether the economy builds or weakens depends entirely on Trump's de-globalization agenda, right? Tariffs, mass deportations. Um, so, so I just think where we go in this K-shaped economy, right? Where the rich have gotten richer and the poor have gotten poorer, and we have ... A- and that's only getting exaggerated this year. Where we're headed, um, is, is where I'm laser beam focused, and it's extr-

   7. DLDon Lemon29:31

      Is it really growing or is it AstroTurf? That's why ... 'Cause that K thing, I'm like, "I don't ... Is that growth real?" Because people are a lot poorer, and you need more people being able to buy things than fewer people being able to buy them. So I don't know if that-

   8. SRStephanie Ruhle29:46

      Yes, but when you look at-

   9. BHBrooke Hammerling29:47

      Well, he could be goosing it with Venezuela. He could be-

   10. SRStephanie Ruhle29:49

       ... big business-

   11. BHBrooke Hammerling29:50

       There's ways to goose it, right? To goose the economy.

   12. SRStephanie Ruhle29:53

       Th- the economy is certainly being goosed. We could have more federal intervention. We could have more farm aid bills of the like. But remember, when you're facing less and less regulation in your business-

   13. BHBrooke Hammerling30:04

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SRStephanie Ruhle30:04

       ... which is what we're facing right now, you're going to see businesses spend and grow. The thing that's standing in the way is tariffs.

   15. BHBrooke Hammerling30:11

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SRStephanie Ruhle30:11

       And Trump is f- fat right, fat in the middle of it.

   17. BHBrooke Hammerling30:14

       Mm-hmm.

   18. SRStephanie Ruhle30:14

       But you're right. Is it just AstroTurf? Because Kara talks about this all the time. When you look under the magnificent seven, under those big giant tech companies that aren't getting hurt, they're h- being helped by AI, that aren't getting hurt by mass deportations. When you look under there, lots of those companies are struggling. And if consumers, um, don't have the money to spend or the money that they're-

   19. BHBrooke Hammerling30:35

       Correct.

   20. SRStephanie Ruhle30:35

       ... spending doesn't go so far-

   21. BHBrooke Hammerling30:36

       It's only rich consumers, right?

   22. SRStephanie Ruhle30:37

       So, so that's my point is it's a fragile economy.

   23. DLDon Lemon30:40

       Yep.

   24. SRStephanie Ruhle30:40

       And the person who has his hands on the steering wheel is Donald Trump, and let's see what he does.

   25. BHBrooke Hammerling30:45

       So what do you, what do you imagine being the best case for him and the worst?

   26. SRStephanie Ruhle30:49

       I actually think the best case for him would be if the tariffs were to be ruled, uh, illegal. That would be his most graceful exit. He could say, "I wanted to make America great. I wanted to bring manufacturing back, but they wouldn't let me." Companies would say, "Great. We're not having to face these tariffs."... to Happy Days are here again. I don't think that's going to happen, or it's going to be super messy. We'll soon find out, right? Trump is the first to say the market is the economy-

   27. BHBrooke Hammerling31:17

       Mm-hmm.

   28. SRStephanie Ruhle31:17

       It's not.

   29. BHBrooke Hammerling31:17

       It's not.

   30. SRStephanie Ruhle31:17

       The market has done very well. It could do even better. But under that, what is the world gonna look like-
5. 40:10 – 1:05:39

   2026 Predictions and Questions

   1. BHBrooke Hammerling40:10

      I'm requiring a prediction. First up, Stephanie. We talked, we ended 2025 with a lot of market talk about an AI bubble and whether it would burst. Uh, if that's what you wanna talk about, what, what, what do you, what do you think your prediction would be around AI?

   2. SRStephanie Ruhle40:25

      I don't have a prediction-

   3. BHBrooke Hammerling40:27

      Mm-hmm.

   4. SRStephanie Ruhle40:27

      ... of whether it's going to burst, but all eyes are on AI and certainly mine. The question is like is it, it, it, is it truly the future and is it going to convert every element of how we're living? Uh, there are certainly companies that have added AI to their perspectives who are going to go bust, right? Like there are elements, uh, of the dot-com bust that like, I remember I worked in banking at the time, and if there was a dot-com next to the end of your company's name, people were scrambling, uh, uh, uh, to, to, to attend your IPO party. There are companies that this isn't going to work out for. However, the masters of the universe in the AI space and the companies that are smartly and effectively, uh, adopting AI are going to be the companies that soar into the future. How that's going to transform our workforce, I don't yet know. Um, so I don't have a prediction of where AI is going.

   5. BHBrooke Hammerling41:21

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SRStephanie Ruhle41:21

      But it's certainly our future.

   7. BHBrooke Hammerling41:22

      Any other prediction you wanna just throw out there?

   8. SRStephanie Ruhle41:25

      I would just say my prediction is while people say that like the president's spiraling or this and that, I don't think he is. I think Donald Trump is happier than ever. I think he's certainly wealthier than ever, and he's finally surrounded by the world's richest, most powerful people who didn't accept him for years and now they're clinking champagne glasses and couldn't be... I, I think Trump-

   9. BHBrooke Hammerling41:45

      Melania's holding his hands again. I mean, look at it.

   10. SRStephanie Ruhle41:48

       Well, I, I very much worry about the future of our democracy. I worry about the health of our economy. I worry about the, the health and safety of our country and peace in the United States. That particular president, while people say he's a lame duck and he is a lame duck, if you think he's sad or frustrated or unhappy, he's not. He was in, in Trump 1.0 sitting in his bed in the White House with his whole team saying, "No, sir, you can't." Now he is surrounded by, "Yes, may I have another?" And, "Can I give you an airplane and, and a, and some gold bars?" He likey. He likey.

   11. BHBrooke Hammerling42:19

       Mm-hmm. Okay. Next up, Don. We'll, uh, talk about that. Will President Trump make it through the year? Careful, the answer. I made a prediction. I'm with the Peruvian shamans on this one, but, um, what, uh, what, uh, what is your thoughts of what's coming up in politics? Or anywhere, and also anything else you wanna add.

   12. DLDon Lemon42:35

       I'm more in line with you. I'm not so ab- I'm not so sure that he's gonna... I'm not like Stephanie. I'm not sure he's, he's gonna make it 'til the end of the year, um, because I think his health is bad. I think they're not letting on, you know, just how sick he is or, or his real health condition. Um, and I think that he is... Well, you think he's happy. I think he's scared. I think he's afraid of the Epstein files and what could come, and a lot of this, in- including Venezuela, has to do with distraction from the Epstein files, and I believe that's why the rollout has been so chaotic, because they want, they're trying to throw people off the trail. They don't want a road map. However, I do believe, as I said, uh, earlier, that this is the beginning of the end for the MAGA movement as we know it, and I think that Hakeem Jeffries could actually end up becoming the majority leader before 2026. I think they're gonna lose. Republicans are gonna lose 2026.

   13. BHBrooke Hammerling43:23

       Before the end of 2026.

   14. DLDon Lemon43:24

       Before the end of 2026. I think there are gonna be a lot of Marjorie Taylor Greene defectors, or, or enough that it could change, uh, the balance of the Congress. That's what I believe.

   15. SRStephanie Ruhle43:34

       Balance of the Congress. Okay, anything else?

   16. DLDon Lemon43:35

       Yeah.

   17. SRStephanie Ruhle43:36

       But doesn't that depend on where Democrats fall?

   18. DLDon Lemon43:39

       Uh, it does.

   19. SRStephanie Ruhle43:40

       If Democrats scoop up that s- more center space, they're there to take those votes. But if they don't, then can't bag a hold?

   20. DLDon Lemon43:48

       I think if they scoop up the- that center space, I think that would be a mistake because the movement in the party ... Remember, the people who elected Donald Trump were the people who were motivated to go to the polls, and that were- those were s- kind of the extremes, whether you like that or not. I think the energy in the Democratic Party right now is on the progressive side. It's not in the center.

   21. SRStephanie Ruhle44:06

       Yeah.

   22. DLDon Lemon44:07

       The, um, the center is over for that. People want someone with balls. They want Jasmine Crockett, they want AOC. And I know people don't believe that, but when I'm out there talking to the people, that's who they want. They want Mamdani. They love him. They love, um, Bernie. And I don't hear so much about-

   23. SRStephanie Ruhle44:23

       Yeah, but you don't think Chris Murphy has balls?

   24. DLDon Lemon44:25

       I think he does, but Chris Murphy does not, he does not have the rizz that all of those other folks have. He doesn't get nearly the play. I mean, I mean, I'm not- I don't wanna be insulting, that's kind of a cable news thing. For-

   25. SRStephanie Ruhle44:37

       Hmm.

   26. BHBrooke Hammerling44:37

       Right. Hmm.

   27. DLDon Lemon44:37

       If you're out there talking to the folks, they love Jasmine, AOC, Bernie, and, and, and the like. They're not talking that much about Chris Murphy. They probably don't even know-

   28. SRStephanie Ruhle44:48

       That's a fair point.

   29. DLDon Lemon44:49

       ... Chris Murphy's name, and that's-

   30. BHBrooke Hammerling44:50

       So in that, in that vein, Tim Walz is abandoning his re-election campaign for governor. It looks like it might be Amy Klobuchar who is running, and she would be the first woman governor of Minnesota. Um, what ... Uh, someone who is very well-liked in Minnesota, by the way. Um, what, uh, what is your prediction for then a presidential candidate? What does that look like?

Episode duration: 1:05:40