Trump’s D.C. Crackdown: Straight Out of the Authoritarian Playbook? | Pivot

1. 0:00 – 5:23

   Intro

   1. KSKara Swisher0:00

      ... Trump is now calling it a feel-out meeting, which sounds kind of creepy.

   2. DRDavid Remnick0:02

      It's a little gross, yeah.

   3. KSKara Swisher0:04

      Yeah, a little Epstein-y. (instrumental music plays) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. Welcome back to ...

   4. DRDavid Remnick0:18

      Scott Free August. (air horn blows)

   5. KSKara Swisher0:23

      And while Scott is off gallivanting who knows where, I have yet another brilliant co-host joining me. David Remnick, editor of The New Yorker and host of the New Yorker Radio Hour. He's a podcaster now.

   6. DRDavid Remnick0:34

      Amazing.

   7. KSKara Swisher0:34

      David, welcome.

   8. DRDavid Remnick0:36

      Oh, it's great to be here, Kara, since we've known each other for about 242 years.

   9. KSKara Swisher0:40

      242 years at our old alma mater, The Washington Post. How is it going? What ... How's The New Yorker going?

   10. DRDavid Remnick0:46

       We're doing okay.

   11. KSKara Swisher0:47

       Yeah? Oh, okay.

   12. DRDavid Remnick0:47

       Knock ... Uh, there's wood here so I can knock on it, but-

   13. KSKara Swisher0:49

       Yeah.

   14. DRDavid Remnick0:50

       ... editorially, we're doing great, and, you know, despite everything, I mean-

   15. KSKara Swisher0:54

       Yeah.

   16. DRDavid Remnick0:54

       ... we could be frank. Um-

   17. KSKara Swisher0:56

       Yeah. Just had a shakeup, yeah.

   18. DRDavid Remnick0:57

       ... we're doing all right.

   19. KSKara Swisher0:57

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   20. DRDavid Remnick0:57

       Business is okay.

   21. KSKara Swisher0:58

       Yeah? Are you, are you gonna be in The Devil Wears Prada 2?

   22. DRDavid Remnick1:02

       I am not.

   23. KSKara Swisher1:03

       (laughs) Okay, all right.

   24. DRDavid Remnick1:04

       (laughs)

   25. KSKara Swisher1:04

       I'm just asking. Um-

   26. DRDavid Remnick1:06

       I am not. I ... In f- ... Uh, if, if I can reveal this, I got a phone call to be a, uh, an extra in it, and I decided maybe there ... It's better to watch the film than be in it, yeah.

   27. KSKara Swisher1:15

       Oh, really? Interesting. You don't want to wear, uh, nice clothes and everything else?

   28. DRDavid Remnick1:18

       Do you get to keep it?

   29. KSKara Swisher1:19

       I don't think so.

   30. DRDavid Remnick1:20

       All right, then forget it.
2. 5:23 – 17:07

   Trump’s “Politics of Fear”

   1. KSKara Swisher5:23

      I want to ask you about your latest piece in The New Yorker called The Politics of Fear. It's very serious, speaking of not entertaining, but it is. It's beautifully written. It's all about Donald Trump's long, uh, lifelong bullying tactics. You write specifically about the us versus them mentality that he's using in his second term to intimidate people and bend them to his will, and you call his cabinet a quivering collection of naysayers. (laughs) Nice, well done. Uh-

   2. DRDavid Remnick5:44

      Well, look at Pam Bondi.

   3. KSKara Swisher5:46

      Yeah, I know. I know, but naysayers. I just like the word. Um, though you do, uh, you do say cartoon bullies do not inevitably prevail. Um, t- ... You say push back like the South Park creators, but talk about how well it's worked actually. It may not be effective, but it's worked well, or it is effective.

   4. DRDavid Remnick6:03

      You know what? I ... Maybe I'm telli- ... Trying to gird my own-

   5. KSKara Swisher6:07

      ... loins-

   6. DRDavid Remnick6:07

      ... loins there-

   7. KSKara Swisher6:08

      (laughs)

   8. DRDavid Remnick6:08

      ... when I say that to myself-

   9. KSKara Swisher6:10

      Yeah. Yeah.

   10. DRDavid Remnick6:10

       ... and to the reader because y- you ha- if you're being honest with yourself, horrible things do happen.

   11. KSKara Swisher6:15

       Mm-hmm.

   12. DRDavid Remnick6:16

       The system-

   13. KSKara Swisher6:16

       And you've seen that.

   14. DRDavid Remnick6:16

       The democratic systems have disintegrated under, under pressure, historically. So maybe I'm being only three-quarters honest there, but I don't think it's inevitable.

   15. KSKara Swisher6:26

       Mm-hmm.

   16. DRDavid Remnick6:26

       I don't think it's inevitable that the project that Donald Trump has set out on, which I think at its heart is, is authoritarian and anti-rule of law and all the other things that you discuss on this show quite a lot.

   17. KSKara Swisher6:41

       Mm-hmm.

   18. DRDavid Remnick6:41

       I don't think it's inevitable that it prevails. Is, has it been corrosive? You bet. Has he won lots of victories? You bet. Has he intimidated, (sighs) all kinds of institutions, including our own business-

   19. KSKara Swisher6:56

       Mm-hmm.

   20. DRDavid Remnick6:56

       ... um, eh, with, with terrible consequences? That has all happened, and I guess it's important on all kinds of media and all kinds of circumstances to rally people's spirits as best as you can. I'm not deluded that a comment piece in The New Yorker is suddenly gonna cause, um, truth, justice, and the American-

   21. KSKara Swisher7:15

       Oh, yes.

   22. DRDavid Remnick7:15

       ... way to prevail, but I look at the place where you and I worked.

   23. KSKara Swisher7:18

       Mm-hmm, The Washington Post.

   24. DRDavid Remnick7:20

       The Washington Post. I, I was-

   25. KSKara Swisher7:21

       Mm-hmm.

   26. DRDavid Remnick7:21

       ... there for 10 years, eh, and as a, as a young guy.

   27. KSKara Swisher7:25

       Me too. That was... I was a young guy too.

   28. DRDavid Remnick7:26

       And I'm watching this drama with a broken heart.

   29. KSKara Swisher7:30

       Mm-hmm.

   30. DRDavid Remnick7:31

       With a broken heart. The idea that The Washington Post was not just mutable...
3. 17:07 – 26:41

   Trump-Putin Summit

   1. KSKara Swisher17:07

      uh, so let's get to it. Trump and Putin are set to meet in Alaska this week for a summit. You can see Russia from Alaska, I don't know if you know that, according to Sarah Palin.

   2. DRDavid Remnick17:15

      I, you can.

   3. KSKara Swisher17:15

      As Trump pushes for the end to the Russia, Ukraine war after announcing the summit, Trump said there will be some swapping of territories to the betterment of both, very Chamberlain-esque. Ukraine's President Zelensky, who's not attending the summit as of this recording, called decisions made without Ukraine "decisions against peace." European leaders are backing Zelensky, saying that Ukraine and Europe's security must remain a top priority, and Trump just said a little while ago, uh, that the next meeting will be him, Putin, and Zelensky. So talk a little bit about this, uh, Trump is now calling it a feel-out meeting, which sounds kind of creepy.

   4. DRDavid Remnick17:50

      It's a little gross, yeah.

   5. KSKara Swisher17:51

      Yeah, a little Epstein-y, um-

   6. DRDavid Remnick17:52

      (laughs)

   7. KSKara Swisher17:52

      ... and what realistically (laughs) is gonna, I had to, gonna come out of it? You wrote this back in 2022, ahead of Russia invading, invading Ukraine, "Few leaders have leveraged inscrutability the way Putin has, but his general imperative is obvious, the preservation of power." Talk a little bit about this summit, this feel-out situation now.

   8. DRDavid Remnick18:11

      Well, it's more than just the preservation of power-

   9. KSKara Swisher18:13

      Mm-hmm.

   10. DRDavid Remnick18:13

       ... it is the resurrection of Russian supremacy in as much of the old Soviet Union as can be mustered.

   11. KSKara Swisher18:22

       Mm-hmm.

   12. DRDavid Remnick18:23

       Not because of communism, communism is, you know, went out the door even before the fall of the Soviet Union-

   13. KSKara Swisher18:28

       Mm-hmm.

   14. DRDavid Remnick18:29

       ... but I mean just in terms of great power relations, um-I, Trump is, I don't know if this is news, um, I don't know if it'll require a flash across our phones, but is, is (laughs) a pretty inscrutable person and his changes of mind and his temperament from hour to hour. So, the spectacle of his berating Zelensky in, in the Oval Office was one of the most depressing moments of the past six months. It was just inc- uh, it, it was the opposite of what an American president should be, should be doing to a, a leader like Zelensky who's been nothing but brave and tireless and an advocate for his people and, and, and incredibly shrewd. And he just sold him out. Then he seemed to... And then lo and behold, Russia kept, kept up its attacks on-

   15. KSKara Swisher19:24

       Doing what it does best?

   16. DRDavid Remnick19:25

       ... doing what it does best and killing lots and lots of people and destroying lots and lots of Ukrainian infrastructure, and lo and behold, Trump said, "I, I'm, uh, this guy is, is, is bullshitting me." Meaning Putin. So who knows? I, I think it's, if, if we ascribe to Trump some sort of, uh, that he's Talleyrand or Metternich and has some sort of grand strategy and all along he's thinking ahead-

   17. KSKara Swisher19:53

       Metternich and Trump don't go together.

   18. DRDavid Remnick19:55

       Not really, no.

   19. KSKara Swisher19:56

       All right, sure. I'll go for it.

   20. DRDavid Remnick19:57

       And, or, or anybody else possessed of a, of a, a strategic-

   21. KSKara Swisher20:01

       Rishi, Rishi Lu, Rishi Lu.

   22. DRDavid Remnick20:03

       ... mind did, did, y- you, then you're kidding yourself.

   23. KSKara Swisher20:04

       Now we're showing off our college education.

   24. DRDavid Remnick20:06

       Whatever. We've, I've just exhausted it.

   25. KSKara Swisher20:07

       Yeah, exactly. Me too.

   26. DRDavid Remnick20:09

       So, uh, the other truth though is that Putin has lost a lot.

   27. KSKara Swisher20:16

       Mm-hmm.

   28. DRDavid Remnick20:16

       This adventure has lost him one million Russian casualties, deaths and, and, and people wounded combined.

   29. KSKara Swisher20:24

       Mm-hmm.

   30. DRDavid Remnick20:25

       It has expanded NATO, which is exactly what he didn't want in his northern, northwestern region. Um, i- i- it's isolated Russia and Russians. Russian life is not better. Economic life is more perilous, although they've survived better than one would have thought. Um, so this w- this adventure is, is, is not great. Is not great. Um, now he's gained some territory, about 20% of Ukrainian territory, Crimea and, and eastern Ukraine, and he wants to hold onto it as much as possible.
4. 26:41 – 35:40

   Trump Takes Control of D.C.

   1. KSKara Swisher26:41

      the politics of fear is President Trump says the police department in D.C. will be placed under federal control because of, quote, "Totally out of control crime." Let me tell you as a citizen of the District of Columbia, things are not totally out of control here. It's actually a very safe city, and it's a wonderful place to live. The US military is preparing to activate several hundred National Guard troops in the city on Monday as we tape. Let's listen to a clip of this speech on the matter this morning, on Monday morning.

   2. NANarrator27:04

      Our capital city has been overtaken by violent gangs and bloodthirsty criminals, roving mobs of wild youth, drugged-out maniacs and homeless people, and we're not gonna let it happen anymore. We're not gonna take it.

   3. KSKara Swisher27:17

      Actually, all those people work at the White House, but, uh-

   4. DRDavid Remnick27:20

      (laughs)

   5. KSKara Swisher27:21

      (laughs) But I gotta tell you, there is, I, uh, anyone who lives in D.C. is, is like, "What are you talking about? Crime is down." Um, uh, and meanwhile, he's trying, we'll get to marijuana in a minute, but what do you, what do you take for this? He tr- he did it in, in California. Uh, the governor resisted. Uh, but still he did it. Um, and D.C. is under a really unusual situation where the government can take over the city, or has much more-

   6. DRDavid Remnick27:44

      Mm-hmm.

   7. KSKara Swisher27:44

      ... purview over the city, including-

   8. DRDavid Remnick27:45

      This is the oldest tactic-

   9. KSKara Swisher27:46

      ... its elected officials. Yeah.

   10. DRDavid Remnick27:47

       Sorry, Kara, this is the oldest tactic-

   11. KSKara Swisher27:49

       Yes, it is.

   12. DRDavid Remnick27:49

       ... authoritarians have. Drugged-out maniacs or, you know, robbing your houses, and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Fear.

   13. KSKara Swisher27:56

       Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   14. DRDavid Remnick27:57

       Politics of fear.

   15. KSKara Swisher27:58

       Yeah.

   16. DRDavid Remnick27:59

       And, and then he wants to show that in his own backyard, it's a, it's a swamp, and he's gonna clean it up. This is a repeat of L.A. in some way.

   17. KSKara Swisher28:07

       Yeah.

   18. DRDavid Remnick28:07

       Right?

   19. KSKara Swisher28:08

       Right.

   20. DRDavid Remnick28:08

       Where the governor and the mayor, I think, uh, they... (laughs) Karen Bass, in a, in a way, the-

   21. KSKara Swisher28:15

       This is Los Angeles mayor.

   22. DRDavid Remnick28:17

       ... the mayor of Los Angeles-

   23. KSKara Swisher28:17

       Mm-hmm.

   24. DRDavid Remnick28:18

       ... after having a rough time during the wildfires, um, I think reasserted her reputation-

   25. KSKara Swisher28:26

       Mm-hmm.

   26. DRDavid Remnick28:26

       ... and her authority by pointing out very clearly in various interviews and news conferences, we had a interview with her on the, uh, New Yorker Radio Hour that was very good. And she, and she made it very plain that this was, this was just absolute bullshit and a manipulation by the federal government in the name of Donald Trump to make it seem like drug-addled maniacs, in this case, immigrants-

   27. KSKara Swisher28:53

       Mm-hmm.

   28. DRDavid Remnick28:53

       ... um, were just running roughshod over the ability of the LAPD-

   29. KSKara Swisher29:00

       Right.

   30. DRDavid Remnick29:00

       ... to control the situation-
5. 35:40 – 44:36

   Redistricting Fights

   1. KSKara Swisher35:40

      fine. I'm- I'm gonna move on from that. So, last thing on this segment, G- Governor Greg Abbott says the redistricting fight in Texas could literally last years as he defends his push to arrest Democrats who fled the state to block GOP efforts. I think they popped up in California this week. Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, by the way, please Google Ken Paxton divorce, has also asked the state supreme court to remove 13 of those Democrats from office. As redistricting battles spread across the country, California Governor Gavin Newsom is pushing for a special election to get a new House map approved by 2026, and Trump is now calling for a new census that excludes undocumented immigrants, a move he's tried before. A new census would reshape congressional maps and impact federal, state, and local fundings if it were to happen. Talk a little bit about redistricting. This is just- this is-

   2. DRDavid Remnick36:26

      It's nothing... Redistricting is-

   3. KSKara Swisher36:28

      Yeah.

   4. DRDavid Remnick36:28

      ... is nothing new.

   5. KSKara Swisher36:29

      Is nothing new, right.

   6. DRDavid Remnick36:29

      And it's something that's... Look, Barack Obama's district as a state senator, as a state senator in Illinois was a- a- absurdity. You know, kinda... A- a little strip along the- the north side and it kinda came down and then went into Hyde Park, and these congressional districts historically have been shaped in ways that, um, are-... congruent with all kinds of political interests, um, early on, racism, and to this day, racism and, uh, anxiety about, uh, about so many other subjects. So both parties in, in American politics has been given to redistricting for, for less than high motives for a very long time.

   7. KSKara Swisher37:13

      Absolutely.

   8. DRDavid Remnick37:13

      But as usual, in the Trump administration, they're, they're taking it to its very heights.

   9. KSKara Swisher37:18

      Mm-hmm.

   10. DRDavid Remnick37:19

       To do this in the way they're doing this, this, this is not something that has clear precedent that I can see.

   11. KSKara Swisher37:26

       Yeah. No, he's doing it because he thinks he's gonna lose the House. He doesn't-

   12. DRDavid Remnick37:28

       Of course.

   13. KSKara Swisher37:29

       ... want to lose the House. And then, and then it's o- then it is kind of game over for him in, uh, many ways. He'll just spend his time, you know, trying hard to do executive orders that won't be-

   14. DRDavid Remnick37:37

       Well, I think this was the illusion of some people on, in the Democratic Party, that after an initial explosion of activity and noise and all the rest, that this term, like the last term, would see him have his interest flag and maybe he's getting older and he'd play a lot more golf. But I think we have to admit that in numerous ways, maybe too many to count, this term is not only much worse than the first term, but the dark sophistication that he's gone about so many things, some of them collapsed, like Doge, um, has been a surprise to a lot of people.

   15. KSKara Swisher38:16

       Yeah. No, he's a lively old man.

   16. DRDavid Remnick38:18

       (laughs)

   17. KSKara Swisher38:19

       Yes. You ever gone to a ... My mom's in an assisted living. Is, there's a guy, there's a guy in every assisted living home that's like this. Real act, real animated.

   18. DRDavid Remnick38:27

       The ass pincher.

   19. KSKara Swisher38:27

       There's like the Biden guy who's wheeling around, who's actually a little more with it than he seems.

   20. DRDavid Remnick38:31

       Yeah.

   21. KSKara Swisher38:31

       And then there's the Trump guy, and he's really crazy and really irritating and definitely, like walks through walls.

   22. DRDavid Remnick38:38

       But it's, it's, it's not just the usual Trump character that we've-

   23. KSKara Swisher38:41

       No.

   24. DRDavid Remnick38:41

       ... known for, for so, so many years.

   25. KSKara Swisher38:43

       Mm-hmm.

   26. DRDavid Remnick38:43

       H- he's surrounded by people who, where age isn't a, isn't an issue.

   27. KSKara Swisher38:47

       Mm-hmm.

   28. DRDavid Remnick38:47

       Stephen Miller's a young man.

   29. KSKara Swisher38:49

       He is, indeed.

   30. DRDavid Remnick38:49

       And he's filled-
6. 44:36 – 54:25

   Cuomo Jabs at Mamdani

   1. KSKara Swisher44:36

      wherever you get your podcasts. David, we're back with more news. In New York City, th- your home, may- in the mayoral race, Andrew Cuomo is targeting frontrunner Zoran Mamdani in a series of social media attacks. And I use that term broadly, 'cause they're really stupid. Um, Cuomo is now framing the race as a heavyweight bout, which is what someone who still lives in the 1980s when Rocky was hot-

   2. DRDavid Remnick44:58

      (laughs)

   3. KSKara Swisher44:58

      ... uh, would use. Cuomo slammed Mamdani for living in a rent-stabilized apartment, calling him rich and saying he should move out. Cuomo, I'll note, Cuomo moved, uh, uh, to the city about a year ago and pays about $8,000 in rent. Uh, and New York Times also reported last week that Cuomo recently spoke with Donald Trump about the mayoral race, though both men have denied that.

   4. DRDavid Remnick45:17

      It's very sad. I- I- I have to say that he has proved positive that there is a such thing as a sell-by date.

   5. KSKara Swisher45:23

      Yeah. Yeah. Well, explain. So-

   6. DRDavid Remnick45:24

      When you saw him in the debate, Mamdani, Cuomo, and I have never seen a clock cleaned-

   7. KSKara Swisher45:30

      Mm-hmm.

   8. DRDavid Remnick45:31

      ... so efficiently as Mamdani cleaned Cuomo's clock. He, I-

   9. KSKara Swisher45:36

      Yes.

   10. DRDavid Remnick45:36

       He, he just, Cuomo had lost it.

   11. KSKara Swisher45:39

       Right.

   12. DRDavid Remnick45:39

       This was a guy who really had prided himself on a certain kind of, uh, "I get things done-"

   13. KSKara Swisher45:46

       Tough guy.

   14. DRDavid Remnick45:46

       Tough guy, but I'm your tough guy, that mode. Very different from his old man-

   15. KSKara Swisher45:51

       Eye of the tiger. Very eye of the tiger.

   16. DRDavid Remnick45:53

       Oh.

   17. KSKara Swisher45:53

       I am the tiger.

   18. DRDavid Remnick45:54

       And Mamdani-

   19. KSKara Swisher45:55

       Yeah.

   20. DRDavid Remnick45:55

       ... who's very young, right?

   21. KSKara Swisher45:57

       Mm-hmm.

   22. DRDavid Remnick45:58

       And, and he just came in very cool, funny, engaged. You could, look, we could... There's all kinds of things we can discuss and argue and, and, and-

   23. KSKara Swisher46:09

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   24. DRDavid Remnick46:09

       ... it's, he's a fascinating figure, but just on raw politics as a boxing match-

   25. KSKara Swisher46:15

       Politics. Mm-hmm.

   26. DRDavid Remnick46:15

       ... that was, that was the kind of decision where the, you know, you win by 10 points.

   27. KSKara Swisher46:20

       Right.

   28. DRDavid Remnick46:21

       You win every round.

   29. KSKara Swisher46:23

       Mm-hmm. Um, besides was terrible boxing though, using that metaphor feels so dated at this moment. I don't know why, but the youngs are like, "What? Like, huh?"

   30. DRDavid Remnick46:30

       Yeah, boxing is not exactly the center of attention. We live in a, in a very... It's a young city. It's a city where certain constituencies have been totally overlooked. We have, in this city, between 750,000 and a million Muslim voters.
7. 54:25 – 1:03:33

   Wins and Fails

   1. KSKara Swisher54:25

      you'll thank me.

   2. DRDavid Remnick54:25

      Okay. (laughs)

   3. KSKara Swisher54:26

      All right, David. One more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, David. Uh, wrapping up, let's hear some wins and fails. Why don't you go first?

   4. DRDavid Remnick54:35

      Can I be patriotic in my win?

   5. KSKara Swisher54:37

      Sure, please. You can do whatever you-

   6. DRDavid Remnick54:38

      David Kirkpatrick, who came to this magazine first as a fact checker many years ago when I first got here-

   7. KSKara Swisher54:44

      Mm-hmm.

   8. DRDavid Remnick54:44

      ... and then returned here from a career at The New York Times to be a writer at The New Yorker has published this week a huge piece in The New Yorker called The Number.

   9. KSKara Swisher54:53

      Oh.

   10. DRDavid Remnick54:53

       And what it is is a meticulous, fair-minded, non-jumping-to-conclusions accounting of how much money, of how much money Donald Trump and his family has made off of the presidency-

   11. KSKara Swisher55:07

       Oh, wow.

   12. DRDavid Remnick55:07

       ... six months.

   13. KSKara Swisher55:08

       2.5 billion.

   14. DRDavid Remnick55:09

       It's $3.5 billion-

   15. KSKara Swisher55:11

       Oh, wow.

   16. DRDavid Remnick55:11

       ... which is a lot in six months.

   17. KSKara Swisher55:12

       Yeah.

   18. DRDavid Remnick55:13

       And I will say that-... he's v- if anything, Kirkpatrick bends over backwards to be conservative as, in his accounting.

   19. KSKara Swisher55:23

       Mm-hmm.

   20. DRDavid Remnick55:24

       By nature and by the, by what I can see in the reporting and the fact checking.

   21. KSKara Swisher55:27

       Yeah.

   22. DRDavid Remnick55:27

       So, I think that's, it's a win, it's a tragic win because of what it's telling you, but there's that.

   23. KSKara Swisher55:33

       Yeah, the grift. Rush, rush a little bit.

   24. DRDavid Remnick55:34

       Do you have a win or should I go to fail?

   25. KSKara Swisher55:36

       No, go ahead. Go to fail.

   26. DRDavid Remnick55:38

       And, and this is sentimental, but also, I think important, it's what we started our conversation with. I think Jeff Bezos' behavior with the Washington Post, I don't care how he gets married. He wants to take over, you know, the city of Rome or-

   27. KSKara Swisher55:51

       Venice.

   28. DRDavid Remnick55:51

       ... Albania to get married. Um, as we say in, on my blog, Sei gesund.

   29. KSKara Swisher55:56

       (laughs)

   30. DRDavid Remnick55:56

       (laughs) Uh, uh, you, you know, fine. May- maybe that pays a lot of catering bills and wonderful. But to take an in- an institution, and what we're discovering in recent years, to our pain, is that institutions are fragile.

Episode duration: 1:03:33