Trump's 'Mob' Tactics and Corporate Capitulation | Pivot

1. 0:00 – 0:32

   Meta, Disney, and X settlements: paying to get “in the tent”

   1. KSKara Swisher0:00

      Meta will pay Trump $25 million settlement for shutting down his accounts after January 6th. Most of the payment will go towards Trump's presidential library again, much as Disney's payment of $15 million is gonna do that. X also, uh, who also kicked Trump off the platform after January 6th, says it's negotiating its own settlement with Trump. Uh, w- apparently the Trump people said Mark wasn't gonna get into the tent, uh, unless, um, unless he did this. I just... You don't seem to be paying anybody millions of dollars to get in the tent, so what, what do you think?

2. 0:32 – 1:26

   Reid Hoffman’s uneasy take: rules, contracts, and “expediency”

   1. RHReid Hoffman0:32

      So, obviously I think that-

   2. KSKara Swisher0:34

      That was a long sigh that you just had there. You're like, "Heh, heh."

   3. RHReid Hoffman0:37

      (laughs) Well, I- look, I obviously think that the, the, the notion of, um, of, you know, kind of this sort of payoff is, I think... um, you know, is, is, is, to put it charitably, suboptimal. Um, you know, I- uh... and I think that the, the, you know, the question of, like, the fact is when- th- when people are removed from services for violations of terms of service, they're removed for violations of terms of service. Um, and I think that's a, uh, perfectly good thing. And I- and I, you know, myself am a massive advocate for, you know, kind of the rule of law and, and kind of how these kind of contracts work. But, um, I understand expediency in navigation.

   4. KSKara Swisher1:24

      Okay, what does that mean?

   5. RHReid Hoffman1:24

      (laughs) What does that mean?

3. 1:26 – 2:33

   “Mob move” framing and the risk of repeat intimidation

   1. KSKara Swisher1:26

      Sounds like a mob move to me. You know, "Uh, I don't want- wouldn't want... Nice company you got there. Wouldn't want anything to happen to it," kind of thing.

   2. RHReid Hoffman1:33

      Well, let's hope that we see very little of that in the coming years, although obviously, uh, we have deep worries in the other direction.

   3. KSKara Swisher1:41

      Couldn't, couldn't he keep doing this, suing people and getting these things?

   4. RHReid Hoffman1:45

      Well, I guess the question will be is, um, is, you know, it's kind of like how much do people kind of respond to this sort of, you know, um, call it, uh, excess pressure, uh, on, on these kinds of things. And I think that that, uh, frankly, you know, w- w- w- we shouldn't want it as a society, uh, and, and, uh, you know, I think probably there will at some point be a bridge too far on it, and seeing what that, that, that bridge looks like, um, I think will- is, is still something we're... you know, we're looking for where that bridge too far is.

   5. KSKara Swisher2:31

      Yes, that's right. Uh, Scott?

4. 2:33 – 3:33

   Scott Galloway: shareholder logic vs. societal harm

   1. SGScott Galloway2:33

      Well, there's two- there's two dimensions to this. The first is from a pure shareholder standpoint, it probably makes sense when the President's coming after you to say, and you make, you know, $20 billion a year in operating profit to say, "Yeah, just make it go away. Just give them $25 million for the presidential library and make it go away." The problem is, and I wouldn't expect based on pattern behavior Mark Zuckerberg to think anything about this, is that this has real societal implications. And that is despite the fact Bob Iger made $45 million last year, I would argue he's becoming more and more impoverished in terms of his citizenship. And that is when a media company says things that are a fraction of the misinformation, slander, disparaging statements that the President has made himself, that happens every day online, and they agree to set precedent by bending a knee and bowing to this intimidation, it sends a chill across the entire fucking nation.

5. 3:33 – 5:08

   Media self-censorship and “fascist handbook” intimidation

   1. SGScott Galloway3:33

      I- I'm on Morning Joe, and I call the President an insurrectionist and a rapist, and Mika stops the show to clarify he was found guilty of sexual abuse-

   2. KSKara Swisher3:46

      Liable.

   3. SGScott Galloway3:47

      Or excuse me, sexual liable. He was found liable of sexual abuse. Is that the right terminology?

   4. KSKara Swisher3:51

      Uh, I- yes. (laughs) I just meant- I- m- m- ca- call me Mika Brzezinski, but go ahead.

   5. SGScott Galloway3:54

      But look at what we're doing, all right?

   6. KSKara Swisher3:56

      Yeah.

   7. SGScott Galloway3:56

      And by the way, the judge then went on in his sentencing to say the street term for that is rape, right? So, what do you have? You have a group of people- this is straight out of the fascist handbook: intimidate anyone who says anything negative about you. And if these companies, in my opinion, had more fidelity to American values and the very important role media plays in checking power, they wouldn't be bending the fucking knee like this. So, is it a practical thing to do? Yes, you can't argue with that. W- has it sent a chill across the entire country in what is an incredible double standard that the critics of President Trump are now- feel that they're being held to? Look at the shit he has said about people that's been incorrect. So, I- you know, yeah, Bob and Mark... I expected this from Mark. I was disappointed to see it from Bob. Where are the men? Where are the Americans who are gonna stand up and say, "No, if, if you're not guilty, if we're not... if the entire ecosystem has never been held liable for things much more slanderous or disparaging than these statements, I'll see you in court"?

6. 5:08 – 5:15

   Clarifying the core issue: platform rules, not “statements”

   1. KSKara Swisher5:08

      In this case, it wasn't statements. He, he, he broke the rules of Facebook and they kicked him off. That's all. It was not- as, as we-

   2. SGScott Galloway5:14

      Which they're allowed to do.

7. 5:15 – 5:49

   Kara checks in with Reid: fear of retribution and personal risk

   1. KSKara Swisher5:15

      Yeah, exactly. So, when we, when we talked in October, I asked if you were concerned about Trump and retribution and your own wellbeing, and, and you said yes. Uh, that was before- that was, I think, before the election. Talk about now. How are you feeling? 'Cause obviously you were one of the more prominent supporters of Kamala Harris, obviously a big Democratic donor. You do give to Republicans also, um, uh, for which for some reason you get endless shit. I'm not sure why. I think that's probably fine to do that. Um, w- how do you feel now? Do you feel in that crosshairs that we had discussed?

8. 5:49 – 7:10

   “Wait and see” versus evidence of broken assurances

   1. RHReid Hoffman5:49

      Well, it's unclear. Um, I'm hopeful that a bunch of my friends who are around, uh, the administration say, "Look, that's just kind of all rhetoric, and, you know, uh, isn't actually going to be-"

   2. KSKara Swisher6:03

      That's what they say to you.

   3. RHReid Hoffman6:04

      "... uh, part of what's..."

   4. KSKara Swisher6:04

      Yeah.

   5. RHReid Hoffman6:04

      Yes, that's what they say to me. Um, and so that obviously is hopeful. Um, but I- obvi- obviously it's one of the things that I think, you know, both me personally and we as Americans need to watch-... carefully because we do want to be, to continue to be, uh, you know, the home of the brave and the land of the free.

   6. KSKara Swisher6:23

      Mm-hmm.

   7. RHReid Hoffman6:23

      Um, and I think that that's very important to be, you know, resolutely against, you know, kind of abuses of, of state power, um, for individual interests. And so, you know, like I said, I went and talked to a whole bunch of people who are, you know, kind of in, you know, in, around the current administration, said, "Look, you know, I have this worry." They said, "Look, we've talked to a bunch of people. They say this is not something we're gonna do." I was like, "Okay, then, you know, let's, let's," um, l- you know, "L- l- let's wait and see."

   8. KSKara Swisher6:56

      Are these the same people that said he wasn't gonna let out everybody at January 6th? He's only gonna let out... He wasn't gonna let out the criminals, but then he did.

   9. RHReid Hoffman7:03

      Uh-

   10. KSKara Swisher7:04

       That's the same people-

   11. RHReid Hoffman7:05

       ... it wasn't the same, it wasn't the same people as those, um-

   12. KSKara Swisher7:08

       Yeah, he's done that several times. He's done that-

   13. RHReid Hoffman7:10

       ... Yeah.

   14. KSKara Swisher7:10

       ... several times, so-

9. 7:10 – 7:45

   Jan 6 pardons and the signal that violence is rewarded

   1. RHReid Hoffman7:10

      No, there's, there's worries, and like, for example, letting out the people who assaulted police officers is, is, is a te- you know, as per what Scott was saying earlier, is a terrible signal. Um, it, it's basically saying, hey, um, you know, like, if you're doing violence in a, in a, in a cause that I am supportive of, you know, I have this thing of a presidential pardon, um, and, you know, that's obviously, uh, you know, frankly, you know, uh, terrifying-

   2. KSKara Swisher7:39

      Mm-hmm.

   3. RHReid Hoffman7:39

      ... concerning.

   4. KSKara Swisher7:40

      Right, but you didn't want a presidential pardon, correct?

   5. RHReid Hoffman7:43

      No. No, no, of course not.

   6. KSKara Swisher7:44

      Yeah, if you didn't do anything-

10. 7:45 – 9:04

    Scott’s escalation: chilling effect, security detail removal as “repackaged violence”

    1. SGScott Galloway7:45

       Yeah, but, but here's, but here's the problem. If I'm-

    2. KSKara Swisher7:47

       Okay.

    3. SGScott Galloway7:47

       ... a thoughtful guy who's high profile with a lot of business interests, with a family, I would be inclined, I'm not just gonna speak for you, Reid, I'd be inclined to keep a very low profile over the next 12 months. Whereas the people on the right are emboldened to be aggressive and pollute and flood the zone with misinformation and bullshit and attacks, and the people on the other side of the aisle feel like, "Well, maybe I should just keep quiet for a while." Because they are removing security details of people, which is nothing but repackaged violence. When you took out the (laughs) head of the Iranian security forces and you ordered that strike as a general, and the president, for whatever reason, doesn't like you, is removing your sec- your security detail, that is repackaged violence-

    4. KSKara Swisher8:34

       He's 100% right.

    5. SGScott Galloway8:35

       ... against that person. So, what we have is a group... This is the road to fascism. Keep them quiet, put a chill across people. "I'm gonna keep a low profile. I'm, maybe I'm just not going to be quite as aggressive." That is, it, that is... L- l- let me be clear. The one of the, one of the roads to fascism, and I'm, uh, I want you both to respond to this, is littered with calls or accusations that people are overreacting. "Call me overreacting."

    6. KSKara Swisher9:03

       Mm-hmm.

11. 9:04 – 9:56

    Brief comic relief and return to why corporate capitulation matters

    1. RHReid Hoffman9:04

       (laughs)

    2. KSKara Swisher9:04

       I, let me just say, Amanda loves your whole, this whole jam, Scott. She was like, "Scott's on fire, I love it."

    3. RHReid Hoffman9:09

       (laughs)

    4. KSKara Swisher9:09

       She was vaguely attracted to you, I think. Um, I- I agree.

    5. SGScott Galloway9:12

       (laughs) Vaguely is doing a lot of work there.

    6. KSKara Swisher9:14

       Vaguely is doing a lot of work.

    7. RHReid Hoffman9:16

       Yeah. (laughs)

    8. KSKara Swisher9:16

       Um, she was. She wanted me to tell you. Um, I think you're right, but, uh, that, that's y- y- I, I think it's, you know, people that are very high profile like Reid aren't, certainly aren't backing down and don't seem to be disappearing. He's right here, right? And he's talking about it. So, I think the question is when Mark does these deals when he just doesn't have to, and it doesn't help them from a shareholder point of view. I really, that's nonsense. Um, it's really... But I, again, we expected Mark to do this. Sorry, I know, Reid, you were... Reid was early at, at Facebook for, and has been, had been a mentor to, to Mark. I don't think he's listening to someone like you anymore. But that said, you, you and Bill Gates had been, um, and well, they are no longer, I would guess, but I don't know.

12. 9:56 – 10:52

    Reid’s closing emphasis: speak up against un-American abuse of power

    1. RHReid Hoffman9:56

       Look, the thing, um, I think that the American people should pay a lot of attention to the removing the security detail from-

    2. KSKara Swisher10:04

       Mm-hmm.

    3. RHReid Hoffman10:04

       ... you know, a person who spent their entire life serving the American people, putting himself in harm's way, um, you know, kind of helping secure the, the safety of America, you know, both locally and Americans abroad-

    4. KSKara Swisher10:19

       Mm-hmm.

    5. RHReid Hoffman10:19

       ... and saying, "Hey, for petty reasons, I am putting that person directly in the harm's way of violence."

    6. KSKara Swisher10:26

       Right.

    7. RHReid Hoffman10:26

       And I think that is a, you know, an unpatriotic, you know, personal thing that I think is extremely important that everyone should pay attention to. And-

    8. KSKara Swisher10:34

       Mm-hmm.

    9. RHReid Hoffman10:34

       ... I think it's exactly that, is I think that, you know, as Scott's saying, on the things that are like, that is the kind of thing that is deeply un-American-

    10. KSKara Swisher10:44

        Mm-hmm.

    11. RHReid Hoffman10:44

        ... like, I think people need to speak up about.

    12. KSKara Swisher10:47

        100%.

Episode duration: 10:52