PivotTrump’s Tariff Pause: Panic Move or Power Play? | Pivot
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
110 min read · 21,701 words- 0:00 – 4:38
Intro
- KSKara Swisher
It came with a card, a lovely card that said, "Love, your private dancer, Scott."
- SGScott Galloway
I'm your private dancer, a dancer for money.
- NANarrator
(instrumental music)
- KSKara Swisher
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I turn on the camera and I think, "Oh my god. She's finally done it. She's gone through transition." I'm like, "At 62? You be you." Uh, but it was your brother. It was Jeffrey Swisher.
- KSKara Swisher
It was my brother. Yes, Jeff... Yeah. Jeff claimed a thing. Yeah. (laughs) I, I would look good as a man. I'd be a handsome man, I would say.
- SGScott Galloway
Um...
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I would. It's true. I'd be adorable.
- SGScott Galloway
Th- there's almost nothing I can say that works.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, exactly.
- SGScott Galloway
But...
- KSKara Swisher
Let me just say, something happened to me last night. I'm here in my new studio, which I'm working on getting nice and fixing up-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
... like yours. Um, and I get a present. A FedEx guy comes and brings something, and I had been contacted by your assistant, MJ, about sending me something, and I said, "As long as it's not a stripper," you were gonna send me a gift, and I said,-
- SGScott Galloway
I would never do that.
- KSKara Swisher
... "As long as it's not a stripper." So what-
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
... to my wondering eyes should appear than this? Let me explain the picture for people who can't see. The, the, the people who watch on YouTube can see, it's a picture of Scott about to lift his shirt to show off his tummy, uh, to the crowd at SXSW, and my face is like, "Oh my fucking god-"
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
... "how did I end up here?"
- SGScott Galloway
Sit down.
- KSKara Swisher
Sit down. And it's lovely.
- SGScott Galloway
What series of bad decisions led me to this?
- KSKara Swisher
And it's going on the shelf behind me so people can enjoy it and maybe-
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, I love that.
- KSKara Swisher
And then it came with a card, a lovely card that said, "Love, your private dancer, Scott."
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs) Huh?
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
Huh? I love that photo. I saw that and I immediately said... By the way, that cost real money because-
- KSKara Swisher
Uh, it's a nice frame.
- 4:38 – 14:33
Trump Pauses Tariffs
- KSKara Swisher
so we're gonna get right to it. Um, obviously the big story is President Trump pressing pause on his "reciprocal tariffs" o- for 90 days. I just don't even wanna use that word. It's just nonsense. Um, bringing tariffs down to a universal 10% for most countries. He is hiking tariffs on China even higher to 125% in response to China's latest retaliation move, raising tariffs on the US to 84%. The market skyrocketed on this pause news, although w- uh, the DOW surged nearly eight percent, but it had been down rather significantly. It's not quite back, uh, where it was, but the S&P 500 added 9.5%, the nag- NASDAQ was up 12%, its best day in 24 years, except that he had caused the decline, of course. Um, he initially told American people to be cool about the tariff turmoil, later explained his reasoning for reversing course, which is, I'm sorry, just not true, but let's listen anyway.
- GOGuest (impersonating Janet Yellen / administration official)
Well, I thought that people were, uh, jumping a little bit out of line. They were getting yippy, you know? They were getting a little bit yippy, a little bit-... afraid.
- KSKara Swisher
I'll tell you who was yippy, Donald Trump. That's what happened there.
- SGScott Galloway
100%.
- KSKara Swisher
100 friggin' percent. It's such a shift, and they're trying to spin it as a victory. They created... It's like an arsonist explaining how they put out the fire. Um, the White House is spinning as the art of the deal victory, but, uh, you know, honestly, he made a mess. And now, he's trying to recover it, but I... He was very spooked by, uh, after a major Treasury bond sell-off with ten-year yields briefly hitting 4.5%, which is insane because it means we have to pay more for bonds and then we'd have all this debt. And he acknowledged, he was watching the bond markets seeing people were getting a little queasy again. He was queasy. Uh, people have been telling... He told people not to become a, a panican, like a Republican but a panicked Republican, a word he coined apparently, a new party based on weak and stupid people. But honestly, he's the panican here. He panicked, and smartly so. It was a good reason to panic. Um, he's also been accused of market manipulation by some Democrats, including Senator Adam Schiff, who's calling for an investigation. Hours before announcing the pause that sent markets surging, Trump posted on Truth Social, "This is a great time to buy!" He put DJT at the end of his post, his initials, but also the stock ticker for Trump Media. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick was asked about, uh, by CNBC's Melissa Lee about Trump's actions, in so many words. Let's listen to this clown.
- GVGuest (market/finance clip voice)
Earlier this morning, before the pause, he, he put out a message saying, "It's a great time to buy!" And here we are. Here we are.
- GIGuest (Donald Trump impersonator)
Well-
- GVGuest (market/finance clip voice)
Much higher.
- NANarrator
Pretty cool.
- GIGuest (Donald Trump impersonator)
(laughs) I'd always bet on Donald Trump. Every time I'd always bet on Donald Trump.
- GVGuest (market/finance clip voice)
He also wrote DJT, which is the ticker for, for his media company.
- GIGuest (Donald Trump impersonator)
No, no, no. Every, every text he does.
- GVGuest (market/finance clip voice)
That was just his, that was just his-
- GIGuest (Donald Trump impersonator)
W- every text he sends to me-
- GVGuest (market/finance clip voice)
But-
- GIGuest (Donald Trump impersonator)
... that's his name.
- GVGuest (market/finance clip voice)
But that was a great time to buy the market, right? I mean, uncanny.
- GIGuest (Donald Trump impersonator)
Well, Donald, look. Donald, Donald Trump understands that it's... America is the greatest country, all right? We are the greatest country, and we have the capacity for incredible greatness. But someone needs to take the shackles off.
- KSKara Swisher
I mean, he's such an idiot. I mean, I'm sorry. Every time he speaks, I wanna t- uh, cringe. The H- White House has rejected any claims of wrongdoing, saying Trump's just reassuring the markets and Americans about economic stability. But it just feels like a grift. So, first let's talk about what's happened, and then we'll talk about what's next. So, Scott, your take. Many takes.
- SGScott Galloway
A decent term for this president would be President Blink. Uh, he blinked on TikTok, he blinked on this. And, um, a friend of mine, Justin, who's the, uh, chief investment officer of Millennium, which is, you know, one of the most successful funds in history, I had dinner with him Thursday night, and he, I asked him about this, and he said, "Oh, yeah. No, he's gonna blink." The, the adult in the room here as the ten-year and the adult said, "Get your head out of your ass." And he was thinking that all of these nations would, would acquiesce to the biggest customer in the world, and of course they didn't. They all imposed reciprocal tr- tariffs. So, you think, "Oh, this is gonna hurt Mexico." Sure, it'll hurt Mexico. They, they implement reciprocal tariffs, and which makes goods brought in imported from America more expensive. What Donald Trump decided to do or tried to do was declare war on everyone all at once, meaning our entire, entire import economy goes up in price for Americans. The markets responded. I mean, quite frankly, that interview on CNBC just did not do her job. She, she was like, "Isn't this great? The markets are up." No, even after the rip-up yesterday, the markets gave up seven months of incredible gains. In three days, Apple lost the value of Walmart. And unfortunately, i- i- th- the market doesn't appear to have knee pads and just wanna, like, blow this guy. W- w- ... We are in... At some point, at some point people are gonna realize, we are in a car with a guy who's got his hands on the wheel who is blackout fucking drunk and the only person in the car saying, "Hey, maybe you should pull over and let someone else drive," is the ten-year bond and the markets. And the markets are absolutely-
- KSKara Swisher
Can you explain for people who don't understand what happens if the bonds y- yields go up, that means we pay more for the money we borrow, and so does everybody else, mortgages, everyone else.
- SGScott Galloway
Credit cards.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
Student loan debt payments. Mortgages. The cost to borrow money and build another plant or hire more people. So, you build fewer plants and hire fewer people. The cost of everything goes up. And when yields go up people say, "Well, why wouldn't I just invest in the credit markets instead of the stock markets?" So, the stock market also goes down. So, one of the, one of the many reasons for our incredible prosperity is America as a whole has access to cheaper credit. We can borrow money less to make forward-leaning investments than any country in the world. And when it spikes, it's basically saying, people are saying, they're, "You need to give us more because you've become a riskier bet." And unfortunately, we talk a lot about to- toxic masculinity. The thing that's hurting America most right now is toxic uncertainty. And that is while he pulled the knife out of the back halfway yesterday by saying there was a pause because he blinked, let's be clear, the wound is gonna take years to heal. Because what's happening right now is the entire world is reconfiguring their supply chain around America. They don't wanna use our services, they don't wanna use our manufacturing and... Initially he thought, "Okay, I'm gonna accomplish a few things. I'm gonna bring jobs back to the US, I'm gonna reshape global trade, and I'm gonna raise a bunch of revenues." None of that has happened. None of that has happened, none of that is gonna happen. And by the way, he's blinked, and he said, "No, just kidding." In, in addition, just to go to the comment about the rip-up here, and you sent me a text on this, and it was so... I was literally had just threaded something. Yesterday, April 9th, will go down in history as the day where more insider trading took place than any day in history. I, I've been trying to figure out how to play this market and the only thing I can figure out is, is-
- KSKara Swisher
Hanging up the phone.
- SGScott Galloway
... um, the volatility-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... is t- ... Quite frankly, and I don't s- Don't do this at home. I have the money to do this, most people don't, and I do it at, at a small extent. And I imagine a worst-case scenario, uh, because it is a risky strategy. But the way I've been playing it is I sell options, 'cause the VIX has gone way up, so the price people have to pay you to write them an option, a call or a put, goes up, so I've been writing calls.... now, yesterday, I follow Apple. The call's at 200, right? We're trading at 40 cents, 'cause the stock was at like 170. The, the options in Apple went fucking crazy about 10 minutes before its announcement. So somebody knew, and if you, if you wa- if you were like me and you were writing a call, I didn't do this, but if you wrote a call, someone had to pay you 40 cents because it was, you, you sold it cheaply because it was way out of the money. Five minutes later, that call was worth $4. Just that one strip of options, someone made and lost a third of a billion dollars. And how did all of these people know about this before? So who, so is it, is it fair to speculate, I'm not accusing, I'm just speculating. Well, when you have a guy that sets up a Swiss banking account in the form of a meme coin, where anyone can put money in, I mean, I mean, this, this administration has just shown such a lack of, uh-
- KSKara Swisher
Care.
- SGScott Galloway
... a lack of-
- 14:33 – 22:02
U.S.-China Trade War Escalates
- KSKara Swisher
Chinese terrorists, the back and forth has been likened to a game of chicken. I think Trump blinks again. Mr. Yip blinks before Xi because they have the Treasuries. They've got a lot of, um, again, we are doing favors for China over and over by this behavior. So what do you, would you do if you're a company and w- talk about the China thing 'cause they were also touting, "We're now really focused on China," which, by the way, we should've been focused in on the first place and not this fucking nonsense, this other tariff. But there, it's only 90 days, so thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I can tell you what companies, non-US companies are doing.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
They're rerouting their business plans and their supply chain, um, and excising American vendors, manufacturers out of their supply chain.
- KSKara Swisher
No more discounts, by the way, from China to, to Americans just so you know.
- SGScott Galloway
That, that will take years, uh, to repair. To give you a sense, uh, the two stories that illuminate just how, what a clown car our economic policy makers are right now, is that, one, it appears these strange tariffs that he initially thought he would impose on every country in the world, as he declared, "War on everyone but ones." So it goes back to the Winston Churchill quote, and he's credited with this, but supposedly it was Victor Hugo that said it first, "There's only one thing worse than fighting with allies, and that is fighting without them." He's decided to fight the world without his allies, is that all those ridiculous numbers around tariffs that we couldn't figure it out, it ends up that, that somebody fed it into ChatGPT, and the exact numbers fed back. So they're using ChatGPT to figure out economic policy, and then my favorite is the guy who has been the whisperer, the tariff whisperer, is Peter Navarro, a senior-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. We'll get to him.
- SGScott Galloway
... policy and economic advisor.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And (laughs) it ends up that the book that Jared Kushner found, Death by China by Peter Navarro, that supposedly is the bible for this tariff strategy, cites this economist and all his policies, and it ends up the economist is fake. This person doesn't exist.
- KSKara Swisher
It's an anagram of his name.
- SGScott Galloway
So this is what we have. We have ChatGPT and a fake economist in a book that didn't sell dictating the economic policies of the largest economy in America.
- KSKara Swisher
So, so w- so who is gonna win in this China? So if you're a comp- an American company, what should you do? 'Cause it's 90 days of uncertainty. He hasn't removed the uncertainty.
- SGScott Galloway
(sighs) M- my view is the following.
- KSKara Swisher
Which he should've removed. Which he should've removed, but-
- SGScott Galloway
My view is the following, is that if someone is screaming nonsense at you and threatening you all the time, i- it is impossible to predict what is gonna happen tomorrow with this guy, so quite frankly, what do you do? I think you just, you keep calm and carry on. And that is, you don't change your plans. You know, you maybe, quite frankly, diversify a little bit from n- this is so hard to predict that my feeling is when you don't know who you're waking up next to the next morning, you just carry on with your life.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Because-
- KSKara Swisher
No gold in the, in the, in the, in the yard, in a hole or anything like that?
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, no, well, from an investor's standpoint, we talked about this last week, I, I won't give it financial advice. I'll just tell you what I've been doing for the last five months.
- KSKara Swisher
Cash.
- SGScott Galloway
Not because I have insight into Donald Trump's mind, but the, the trade that has paid off for the last 15 years is just put more money into US growth stocks. Everything is cyclical. I think that run is coming to an end.... when Apple trades at a PE of 36 and it's not growing and you can buy s- good companies for 12, a PE of 12, uh, I'm diversifying into non-US markets. So that's what I would do as an investor. I would say, "Okay, if you're in the S&P and you think you're di- uh, you think you're diversified, you're not. You're, you need to diversify geographically."
- KSKara Swisher
And if you're a company head, what do you do? A US company?
- SGScott Galloway
Jesus Christ. Well, okay, so-
- KSKara Swisher
We're gonna get to Apple specifically in a second.
- SGScott Galloway
This goes, this goes to moral. I, I have been so disappointed that all of these Fortune 500 CEOs who wake up in the morning and look at themselves in the mirror and say, "Hello, Mr. President." I, I bet two to 300 CEOs of Fortune 500 companies think in the back of their mind they could be president.
- KSKara Swisher
Definitely Jamie Dimon. Jamie Dimon's so thirsty for presidency, but go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I think most of them think there's an outside shot-
- KSKara Swisher
He's particularly thirsty, but go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
Look, you tell, you tell a-
- 22:02 – 29:37
Apple Caught in Tariff Crossfire
- KSKara Swisher
Apple. Scott, we're back. Trump's tariff pause brought some much needed good news for Apple on Wednesday after its worst four-day trading stretch since 2000, if you can believe that. It was like a million years ago. Apple stocks soared 15%, its best day, uh, since January 1998. But the ongoing and increasing China tariffs are still a major problem for the company, as Apple makes about 90% of its phones there. Apple is reportedly now planning to source more phones from India to offset some of these costs. Um, a couple of things. Apple, um, if you're Tim Cook, you've got to, you've got to ... This is the biggest me- test of your mettle, I think ever in your, in your tenure. You've done a very good job, but this is really tough. Apple was exempt from broad tariffs in Trump's first term, but that's not happening now despite Tim Cook's $1 million donation to Trump's inauguration. It also announced a commitment to invest over $500 million in the US over the next four years back in February. Um, i- i- you know what? It, it had done that in the previous administration, and it was stuff they were gonna do anyway, so that was kind of a, a nothing burger. Um, so e- e- one thing Trump could do, um, is throw Apple a lifeline with an exemption, another exemption. Um, and one thing they're saying, which is nonsense, is that the White House says the solution is to move iPhone manufacturing to the United States. Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt, who is 27, everybody, let me be s- clear, she, this is, she does not know what she's talking about, said in her briefing this week that Trump believes we have the labor, the workforce, the resources. Carolyn, you're an idiot. Even if that were to happen, it would cost $30 billion in three years for Apple to move just 10% of their supply chain to the US, according to one analyst, and the price for the iPhone would soar to, from $1,000 to $3,500, uh, which is, you know, a non-starter. So, uh, there's no plans to move iPhones to the US at all. Um, the short-term benefit for Apple is that people have been flooding into their stores to buy iPhones, everyone's like, "Get one now." Um, you know, there's a tariff panic happening and how much these are gonna cost. Um, I mean, they're really squeezed. So what, what's their best thing? An exemption? What should Tim Cook do? 'Cause sucking up didn't work.... uh, what you might, I guess, more sucking up my work, but go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, I'm, I'm fairly confident there will be no tariff on Apple products. One, I think he's going to blink around these tariffs to begin with, with China when, when the market tells him what you've just outlined, that we're not as strong as we think relative to China too. Tim Cook is the business person that Donald Trump thinks he is. And that is, Tim will be smart, he'll go there, he'll kiss his ass, and also if you want to talk about a cult, the cult of iOS, I mean, first off, the insane notion that we want to bring these jobs back, Dave Chappelle summarized it perfectly, "We want to wear Nikes, but we don't want to make them." The average assembly, wage of an assembly line worker entry level in China in an Apple factory is $500 a month. We want to bring those jobs back to America? You think, you wanna, you wanna, you wanna e- enrage a cult? Take iPhones to 3,500 bucks. And then you're going to see the largest and most valuable company in history, an American company, lose the value of the German GDP over the course of a year. You're going to take, push back people's retirements, Apple's going to have to withdraw all sorts of growth plans, and you want to piss off every, every, uh, Millennial and Gen X in the world? Take their iPhones to 3,500 bucks. I- i- Apple is not going to have any tariffs here. Having said that, what is Apple doing, and they've been doing it for a while, they're trying to diversify their supply chain out of China for a number of reasons. And by the way, to, you, you're talking about analyst Dan Ives?
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Just to get 10% out of China-
- KSKara Swisher
10%.
- SGScott Galloway
... takes three years-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... and costs $40 billion.
- KSKara Swisher
By that time, Trump will be gone, presumably.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, uh, so this notion that, uh, uh, I am fairly confident, (laughs) folks, you're going to be able to have your iPhone at the same price as now, because one, I think these China tariffs will not last because g- This is what Xi, this is how Xi thinks of Trump right now.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
The same way Logan Roy feels about his children in Succession.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
You are not serious people.
- KSKara Swisher
No.
- SGScott Galloway
Xi looks at Trump and he's like, "You are not serious people. We are not backing down. We didn't back down on TikTok, all these extensions, I'm serious now, we're gonna, we're gonna ban you unless you sell to Larry Ellison and Elon Musk." They're like, "Okay, hold my fucking beer."
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
That's what they're saying now. "Okay, you want to tariff us this? We'll respond with the same tariffs. It'll hurt us both."
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
It will, uh, they will back down, he will blink yet again on China, and even if there are tariffs on China, he will come up with a reason not to inflame a cult that is even stronger than the MAGA cult, and that's the iOS cult, and Tim Cook will go back, go down to Mar-a-Lago, tell him he's a genius, show him a new iPhone with his picture on it-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... with golden crusted leafed picture, silhouette of Donald Trump, and he will find an exemption for Apple. I just, the idea that Apple, the iPhones are going to go to $2,200, much less 3,500, or that we're going to bring back those millions of jobs of people screwing in little fi- It's just, this is, it's-
- KSKara Swisher
They're so... Like, every time they open their mouth, I'm like, "What are you talking about?"
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
Like, where? Where are you gonna put these factories? And who's gonna... Oh, ugh, God, "We will automate them before, and by the way, there are advan..." Then they always drag out advanced, "We're gonna do advanced manufacturing." It's already being done here, Carolyn Levitt, you dumbass.
- SGScott Galloway
Advanced manufacturing.
- KSKara Swisher
We have gorilla glass. We, they're already doing what they, uh, uh, the high level stuff here and creating jobs, and th- they think you're so stupid, I just, I, I, I've got so many calls from tech people, like, "How stupid are they?" And I was like, "Seems like extremely so," because they don't understand that, why would you build a factory here with this lunatic in charge? You never know what he's going to do, if he's gonna arrest you, he's gonna do, you know, I mean, he, or make your life hell. I don't know if any of this stuff is gonna last, but it's, uh, it- it's so chaotic, it's cha-, it's like a monkey flinging feces at all of us. So we're just gonna duck until he goes away.
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs) Apple is the most valuable company in the world.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Or was, it w- w- briefly went to number two, I think it's back to number one.
- 29:37 – 34:44
Elon Musk vs. Peter Navarro
- KSKara Swisher
The feud between Elon Musk and Trump trade advisor Peter Navarro is heating up, and Scott and I are on Team Elon this time. Musk called Navarro, quote, "Dumber than a sack of bricks," in an X post that was in response to Navarro saying on CNBC that Elon was a car assembler, not a car manufacturer, because Tesla relies on parts around the world. Uh, again, Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt.... who I like to call, uh, Tracy Flick, had this to say about it when asked about the feud.
- GCGuest (administration / trade official clip)
Look, these are obviously two individuals who have very different views on trade and on tariffs. Um, boys will be boys, and we will let their public sparring continue. Um, and you guys should all be very grateful that we have the most transparent administration in history.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, my God. "Boys will be boys." Ugh, like, give me a break. This is... Boys don't talk like this. He, he... Listen, I agree with Elon. I wouldn't have used some of the words he used. Uh, I like "dumber than a brick" and "moron," the other ones I'm not so thrilled with. But, uh, look, you can not- you can hate on Elon Musk as much as you want. He's made an astonishing company here in the United States, and really does know about this stuff, right? And have this, this, this, like, faux economist give him- tell him how things work is just an astonishing thing. And in this case- but of course, it's all in Elon's self-interest to get... 'cause he needs to, you know, you know, eat at the trough on the other stuff. But, um, but this is just, uh, i- i- i- it's just, like, ri- I'm so glad Elon called him-
- GCGuest (administration / trade official clip)
Yeah. (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
... "dumber than a stack of bricks," or whatever he called him. I don't know. What are your thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, it's weird to agree with Elon. But, uh, look, I thought, I- and I still think the fall guy for Signal Gate is gonna be Walt. I think the fall guy here, when this just- just becomes stupider and stupider and stupider as we- the president continues to- to wake up next to an adult called the 10-year and blinks over and over and over. The fall guy will be Navarro, who, by the way, folks, spent four months in prison, and i- i- i- has- has been, quote unquote, "the architect" or "the whisperer" here around the tariffs. And, uh, you know, I gotta be honest. If there's a- if it's a war between Navarro and Musk, I'm- I'm rooting for the bullets.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm.
- SGScott Galloway
I'm enjoying this.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, i- i- i- they both... You know, when you insult people like this in public-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... you make them look bad, and you also look bad.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, you do.
- SGScott Galloway
But i- i- i- th- th- look, i- i- he's right. And by the way, just- and not... Again, I hate agreeing with... But when Navarro calls Tesla an assembler?
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Tesla is the most American-made company in America.
- KSKara Swisher
Absolutely.
- SGScott Galloway
Their greatest percentage of parts actually manufactured and assembled in the US, the winner of the- the top four or five cars-
- KSKara Swisher
The design, the ideas behind it. Look, it hasn't been keeping up in innovation, but what an ast- an accomplishment this car-
- SGScott Galloway
Well, no, but- but- but there's- there's a ranking done of who makes the most American car based on how many parts are actually-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, right. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... that go into the car actually are made in America. And the top four or five most American-made cars are all Tesla models. So the notion somehow... Uh, Tesla is the least assembled car from foreign products of any automobile manufacturer. The Fords are less American than Teslas. So Peter Navarro? I mean, my God.
- KSKara Swisher
Sit down.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, uh, n- g- sit down.
- KSKara Swisher
Sit down.
- SGScott Galloway
This guy, this is the last person you would want advising the president on economic policies, and Trump is gonna get angry pretty fast when- when he has to blink over and over and over.
- KSKara Swisher
Because of this guy's... I mean, it's interesting that he's in the sway of him. I- you know, Trump, as you and I know of him, has been talking about this tariff thing since the '80s. It's real, as we talked about last week. So, he- this guy was playing into already interests that Trump has, right? But the fact that he's list- like, listening to him like this? I don't think he's gonna suffer. I don't think he's gonna get rid of him. I don't think he is. I don't... I- I think he keeps him around. Uh, they can fuck up as much as they want, which to me, this is the guy who has a reputation for firing people, but he actually doesn't, right? He sort of does, but...
- SGScott Galloway
It's still pretty early.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, we're only-
- 34:44 – 39:12
SCOTUS Cutting Red Tape
- KSKara Swisher
SCOTUS is cutting red tape for President Trump the past week. The court has said the administration does not have to comply with an order directing it to rehire thousands of federal employees, lifted an order stopping the use of Alien Enemies, uh, Act for deportations, allowed the plan, uh, to freeze funding for teachers, and Chief Justice Roberts allowed the Justice Department more time to litigate whether the administration must return a man who was deported by error. A lot of these rulings are temporary. They haven't made the ruling, but they've left things in place s- which is just the same as making the ruling to many people. Um, th- they're not doing anything. They must be, like... They're inundated. The Trump administration, just the way they're inundating, uh, law firms or media with all kinds of nonsense, is inundating the Supreme Court with all kinds of requests, and... All of which take time. So they're... Like, they're working... These old people are working overtime in this case. Um, uh, you know, I think they will put everything into stasis, which is exact- exactly what Trump wants, meaning he can run roughshod. It do- it doesn't stop anything. So, thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
I think the darkest moments in Western progressive society have been something around camps. Obviously Germany and concentration camps. I think one of the darkest moments in American history that we try to airbrush over is the fact that we took law-abiding-... Japanese families, some of whom had, um, boys serving in the European theater, and put them in internment camps. I think that some of the black sides to avoid Geneva Conventions laws that we spun up to basically torture, uh, combatants during, you know, the war on terrorism, I think that over time we will realize th- just how ugly that was. And I've, I've said for a while that I thought, similar to Germany, we were one economic shock away from doing something similar in the US, but it always takes on a different complexion. But when you start rounding people up, uh, and many of them don't have a criminal record and some of them just have the wrong tattoo, and you essentially send them... I'm not gonna call them concentration camps 'cause I think there are different levels of depravity, in that concentration camps took, you know, took the crown for a level of depravity we haven't seen since then, fortunately. But when you send people to overcrowded prisons with no due process in another country and then you refuse to acknowledge your mistake and bring them back, which you could do with one call, that is a form... Eh, that is gonna be something we're gonna look back on and think, "You know, we really should've spoke up. We really should've spoken up." And also, I just want to do a shout-out. Tim Mill- Miller from The Bulwark has been really good on this. He's been highlighting this, and he's been a steadfast voice on this. Folks, just be clear. This stuff always takes on a different complexion, and when you allow this to happen without due process, just be careful when you get that knock on the door.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
So, this is one o- and one of the reasons... Let me take it to economics, 'cause that seems to be the only fucking thing Americans care about, is when their 401 (k) goes up or down. One of the reasons our stocks trade at a higher, trade at a higher multiple, one of the reasons we attract the most human capital and the most s- financial capital in the world is due process and rule of law. And it's tempting to bypass it. If we did away with search and seizure laws, crime would go down. It comes at a cost, right? But it's worth it, and over time it creates the greatest economy, the greatest society. Th- think of America as a product. We offer more prosperity and more rights at the lowest cost in terms of taxes in the history... This is the best product ever, and a key component of that value is their expensive, sometimes awkward, sometimes inefficient due process. So be clear, when you turn a blind eye to some gay hairdresser who has done nothing wrong who ends up in a hellscape prison in El Salvador and no one is willing to make a call and get him out and acknowledge the mistake, at some point that knock on the door might come for you.
- KSKara Swisher
Correct. I mean, I, I... It's interesting. Even in small ways. I have, uh, several friends who are on green cards here. They've... Every one of... Two of them in the last week have had real problems with th- at coming back into the country. Like, they wanted to look at one of my friend's, uh, messages and she refused. She said, "No, you can't look at my phone. Get a subpoena." And they're like, "Well, it would be easier on you if you let us see it," and then she's like, "Do I have to?" And they said no, and she goes, "I shall not then." I mean, they... And it's... Uh, their lovely guy, he's from Switzerland, slowed down at the border hour and a half, two hours, just like pressuring them to say things. Uh, it's just even at the smallest level, it's, it's, it's everywhere, and they will come for you. They'll 100% come for you. Um, let's finish up on one more thing, um,
- 39:12 – 43:26
Trump Revokes Security Clearances
- KSKara Swisher
I wanna talk about Chris Krebs, who was, uh, head of CISA, uh, who was the... Uh, who, who was fired by Trump for saying the election, the 2020 election was legal. Um, and Trump fired him or everything was fine, and he's now going after, via executive order, Chris, um, and, and, and, uh, removing security clearances from the company he works for, meaning Chris will probably... He's gonna hurt the company itself, um, in order to get rid of Chris, and also Miles Taylor, who was the one who was Deep Throat, essentially, of this, the first administration. Um, and they're going after them personally, uh, trying to ruin and wreck their lives, and I don't know what you think about this. I have great regard for Chris and Miles, and, uh, what they're doing here is specifically targeting specific people via executive order because he told... Both of them told the truth. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that, but I will do anything to help Chris, um, whether it's raising a legal defense fund, anything else. But the fact that he's specifically targeting people now is, American citizens who just did their job and told the truth, is chilling as far as I'm... I, I couldn't be more outraged by th- by this. I'm outraged by all of them, but this is an astonishing attack on, uh, on people who, um, just were doing their job.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, look, this is, again, along the lines of depravity and an autocrat's handbook where he's trying to create an incentive program where if you say nice things about me, I might give you a... Call you and say, "Oh, by the way, I got the sense that markets are gonna go up tomorrow," and you get rich. Or, "If you come to have lunch with me at Mar-a-Lago, I'll exempt your company from these tariffs. And if you do your job and say I see no election interference, i might come after you with the full weight of the Department of Justice." I'd like to think that our justice system will vomit on this, and w- the only observation I would have here other than what you said, which is exactly right, and I think it's important that we keep raising these issues, is, th- the timing of this was not accidental.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
He did it yesterday 'cause he wants a misdirect from people to l- look away from the fact that he blinked and that he is literally fucking with the global economy like a drunk driver right now.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
So, what do you know? Hey fo- I mean, this is how weird it is.
- KSKara Swisher
Let's pull this one out of my pocket. I've had this one festering - yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I want to outrage, I want to outrage the libtards in the media and get them to look over here at what is a blatant violation of the law and the autocrat such that they...... such that they stop staring at the fact that I am unilaterally taking the global economy down for no fucking good reason.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, yep, 'cause I'm in-
- SGScott Galloway
So, I- I- I agree with you, I think it's terrible. I appreciate you bringing it up, but quite frankly, I think it is a purposeful misdirect from the fact that he's-
- KSKara Swisher
A- absolutely.
- SGScott Galloway
... taking the global economy down.
- KSKara Swisher
Except I think it's more systematic that this is removing clearances from this company is gonna force them to, him, he's gonna have to quit because he's hurting this company, right?
- SGScott Galloway
I agree.
- KSKara Swisher
The second thing is, he does, he's re- reversing clearances, revoking clearances to law firms that don't cooperate. They can't do business, which is why they're being so acquiescent, is they're losing clients, they're losing everything. If you can't, if you have federal business and you can't do federal business because you don't have security clearances or the government won't work with you, you're fucked. Like, it's, it, it, it is part-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
... of a bigger picture of fucking with people's economics, right? This is, this is the goal here with Chris and Miles, is to fuck with their economics and to fuck with the economics of people they work and affiliate with. Not a, you know, finding a lawyer is gonna be hard because they fucked with the lawyers. The media is nervous, you know? I mean-
- SGScott Galloway
And then illegally reward your allies.
- KSKara Swisher
This is, this is part of the same thing of, of, even if it's a distraction, it's also trying to kneecap everybody so they can't-
- SGScott Galloway
Yep.
- KSKara Swisher
... come after you in some fashion-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
... whether it's the media, the, the lawyers, uh, the obviously the Justice Department has lost every bit of e- ethical boundaries is over 'cause of that, in, in other wordly factotum, uh, Pam Bondi. Um, uh, you know, it's just I think it is a distraction and yet it's also part of the same plan when he does stupid stuff like this with the economy. Not just stupid, but dangerous and, uh, devastating. He, he can then threaten people at the same time. It's a s- it's a similar thing.
- SGScott Galloway
Agreed.
- KSKara Swisher
So, anyway, uh, one, all right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.
- 43:26 – 51:36
Predictions
- KSKara Swisher
Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction. What's your prediction?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I have three, but they're all related.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
One, uh, blink.
- KSKara Swisher
Blink.
- SGScott Galloway
Th- th- this guy will blink again. The Chinese, the tariffs, you know, okay, 90-day pause. More uncertainty, more reduction in the multiple, uh, re- awarded by global investors on every company in the US because we are now Brand America is toxic uncertainty. Uh, so this 90-day pause is ridiculous. He will, and then the 100 and, I think we're at 125% tariff on China, he will blink again. The tariffs will come dramatically down 'cause quite frankly, Xi looks at Trump and says, "You are not serious people." Folks, this isn't gonna happen. The tariffs are gonna come way down. Trump will blink again. Even more confident, there will be no tariffs, incremental tariffs on Apple products. Tim Cook will play Trump like a fiddle. Trump will be scared to piss off the cult of iOS, which is huge in the United States, and he will not want to kneecap our shiniest, brightest, most handsome thoroughbred, and that is Apple. That's not gonna happen. In addition, we're gonna find out in somewhere between, you know, three years and nine months, uh, or sooner, that the greatest, the greatest (laughs) , uh, uh, criminal insider trading took place yesterday. There's just no way this administration who is, one, telling the DOJ to drop all cases against a mayor accused of, of, of conspiring with a foreign agent because he supports the administration, two, that creates a Swiss banking account that you can put money into with no, no record, three, tells all, after getting a quarter of a billion dollars from the crypto community, tells everyone investigating platforms in the cryto- crypto community for good reason to stop all investigations, to believe that this administration did not leak insider information or engage in massive market manipulation yesterday. We're gonna find out that April 9th was literally the biggest-
- KSKara Swisher
But will they-
- SGScott Galloway
... grift day in history.
- KSKara Swisher
... do anything about it? Will the SEC do something? He was pretty silent, this new acting SEC head.
- SGScott Galloway
Nothing will happen until January of 2029 if a Democrat is elected. Only if. Only if. But i- i- in this economy, in this digital age, there'll be digital records everywhere. They can just go through. They can use AI to go through who was buying and selling all of these options 10 minutes before. It, it, there's phone records and digital servers everywhere, and they're just, I think, gonna find dozens, if not hundreds of people who have a connection to the White House who were given a nink, a wink and a nod and made millions of dollars, uh, engaging in market manipulation or trading on non-material, uh, non-public material information. This will go down as the biggest grift day in history, Wednesday, April 9th.
- KSKara Swisher
All right. Uh, that's a good one. Those are good ones and they're all related, uh, and they're all really depressing in so many ways. (laughs) Do you have anything happy?
- SGScott Galloway
Um.
- KSKara Swisher
Anything? Anything?
- SGScott Galloway
I don't know. I'm, I'm excited about-
- KSKara Swisher
The new Mission: Impossible is coming. You wanna go with me?
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, you keep talking about taking me to a movie. I don't really go to many movies anymore.
- KSKara Swisher
I know, we could go watch a movie.
- SGScott Galloway
You go to, you love Mission: Impossible.
- KSKara Swisher
Now that you sent me an intimate picture of us, I think it's time.
- SGScott Galloway
I did.
- KSKara Swisher
I think it's time.
- SGScott Galloway
I did. I'm your private dancer.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) I love that song.
- SGScott Galloway
A dancer for money.
- KSKara Swisher
I'm your private dancer.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh my God.
- KSKara Swisher
A dancer for money. I love that album, that whole album. Go listen to that album. I listened to it when I was in my tw- early 20s. I love that fucking album.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
Did you like it?
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. Um.
Episode duration: 51:36
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