What Mark Zuckerberg Gets Wrong About "Masculine Energy" | Pivot

1. 0:00 – 0:30

   Zuckerberg’s “MAGA makeover”: Rogan appearance, Mar-a-Lago, and Meta rollbacks

   1. KSKara Swisher0:00

      Scott, we're back. Mark Zuckerberg's MAGA makeover continues with a return, uh, term visit to Mar-a-Lago last week and an appearance on Joe Rogan's podcast, possibly the most embarrassing one I've ever seen. Over the course of a three-hour chat with Rogan, Zuckerberg bashed his own company's fact-checking process, the, eh, bi- Biden administration's push for content moderation in Apple for lack of innovation, amidst the news that Meta ended its, uh, DEI efforts, also Zuck... and also took away all kinds of... eh, I'll get to that in a second. Zuckerberg lamented the rise of culturally neutered

2. 0:30 – 1:00

   The “masculine energy” clip: Zuck’s framing and the ‘neutered companies’ claim

   1. KSKara Swisher0:30

      companies. Let's listen to him explain why masculine energy is so important.

   2. MZMark Zuckerberg0:35

      I have three sisters, no brothers, um, I have three daughters, no sons. So I'm, like, surrounded by girls and women, like, my, my whole life. And it's like, so I think, um... I don't know, there's just something... the, the, the kind of masculine en- energy, I think, is, is good.

   3. SGScott Galloway0:53

      Yeah.

   4. MZMark Zuckerberg0:53

      And obviously, you know, society has plenty of that. But, but I think corporate culture was really, like, trying to get away from it.

3. 1:00 – 1:49

   Kara’s reaction: ‘divorce vibes,’ muddled thinking, and a therapy-needed rant

   1. KSKara Swisher1:00

      Yeah, it sounds like this guy is... has divorce vibes to me. (laughs) I don't know, that's what it... all over the, uh... like what i-... he just... eh, look how he juxtaposed them. "I have three sisters, no brothers, three daughters, no sons." And then he doesn't say, "This is great." He says, "And, uh, you know, we kinda need masculine energy again." It sounds like he feels like a fucking te- Ken Doll or something's happened here. And then makes no sense what... I, I had forgotten what a bad thinker he was until I listened to this interview. I've interviewed him many times so he's... as he's... I'm interviewing him, most of the time I'm thinking, "This guy has no intellectual heft in any way or an ability to think through a clear thought." Now... and, and he, he certainly doesn't anymore. So this was one big, I don't know, you know, puss ball of, "You need some therapy, dude." That's all I kept thinking when I was listening to it. But Scott, have you been, uh, talking to Mark about masculine energy, and what would you say?

4. 1:49 – 2:30

   Scott’s opening salvo: the new look and why gendering companies is unproductive

   1. SGScott Galloway1:49

      Uh, first off, anyone who's seen Mark Zuckerberg's new wardrobe realized he's not bringing masculine energy, he's bringing Chechen molly dealer energy.

   2. KSKara Swisher1:58

      Yeah, that's, that's Jimmy Kimmel.

   3. SGScott Galloway1:59

      Yeah. A- and that's the best description of his, uh, of his look and feel. Uh, for the most part, like, I, I think masculinity and femininity are wonderful things. They're societal constructs that can help be great guideposts and aspirational behaviors for both men and women, not sequestered to either sex. And... but I'm not sure that it plays a role. Uh, I don't think companies should be gendered. I, I (laughs) I don't, I don't think it's a productive conversation.

   4. KSKara Swisher2:26

      Oh but, Scott, they're neutered. Oh my God, fuck you, Mark. Go ahead, sorry.

5. 2:30 – 3:30

   Scott defines masculinity as protection—and accuses Zuck of pure pragmatism

   1. SGScott Galloway2:30

      The... here's, on a very basic level, eh, eh, masculinity means you're a protector, a provider, and a procreator, in my view. And let's just go to protection. You add surplus value. You register complaints. You give notice to people's lives. You, you attempt to help people more than the help you're getting without credit. You're willing to take risks. You're willing to be aggressive. Your operating system, your default system is that you protect people. And right now, Elon... or Mark Zuckerberg, eh, eh, the most favorably... the most favorable thing you could say about him is he's bringing kind of pragmatic billionaire energy to his company. He's being very pragmatic around kissing the ass to Donald Trump, figuring around a way to spin moderation as censorship so he can get rid of it, take $5 billion that he was spending on moderation, put it all to the bottom line, which will increase his net worth by $15 to $20 billion, has nothing to do with masculinity or femininity. Masculine energy...

6. 3:30 – 4:01

   ‘Real’ masculine energy example: aerial firefighters risking their lives

   1. SGScott Galloway3:30

      if you wanna see masculine energy, look at the aerial firefighters who are former military, former civilian pilots or civilian pilots, they get in retrofitted DC-10s, they risk their lives, they bring incredible skill, risk, aggressiveness in the service of others-

   2. KSKara Swisher3:53

      Yeah. He doesn't... he misses the point.

   3. SGScott Galloway3:53

      ... without the expectation of economic gain or recognition. We don't know who these guys are.

7. 4:01 – 4:39

   Gender and risk: Kara pushes back as Scott claims men are more risk-aggressive

   1. KSKara Swisher4:01

      Or women, let's just say that.

   2. SGScott Galloway4:02

      Well, it's probably a lot of women. I, I'm gonna go out on a limb here. It's probably a lot of women handling a lot of the infrastructure and navigation.

   3. KSKara Swisher4:09

      I'm not so sure. There's the... well, look at Lauren Sanchez can fly a mean helicopter-

   4. SGScott Galloway4:13

      Uh, uh, okay, but-

   5. KSKara Swisher4:13

      ... right? I mean, just add that-

   6. SGScott Galloway4:14

      ... but let's just talk about reality.

   7. KSKara Swisher4:15

      I don't know.

   8. SGScott Galloway4:15

      I bet it's 98%-

   9. KSKara Swisher4:16

      We don't actually know.

   10. SGScott Galloway4:17

       ... plus male pilots, 'cause here's the bottom line. The majority-

   11. KSKara Swisher4:19

       I'm not sure.

   12. SGScott Galloway4:19

       ... of men, uh, the majority of aerial flight training in the military has been sequestered to men, unfairly or fairly, and quite frankly-

   13. KSKara Swisher4:27

       Probably true.

   14. SGScott Galloway4:27

       ... and I'll go out on a limb here, such that you're... such that Twitter can get mad at me, men are more risk aggressive, and in military situations, that masculine energy, that big dick energy really pays off, 'cause men are more risk aggressive.

8. 4:39 – 5:20

   Kara dissects Zuck’s wording: women in his life as a ‘contrast’ to masculinity

   1. KSKara Swisher4:39

      But you're talking about the service of others. I want you to take apart what... how he said it. The way he put together the women in his life without any praise and then sort of had this sort of, you know, this, like, shitty little stew of other things around companies with je-... where'd he use neutered? Like, ev- everything is about the dick for this guy. And I kept thinking, "Small dick." That's what I kept thinking the whole time. Who would talk like this who has a... t- who has girl daughters? Women can be aggressive m-... welcome to me. Mark Zuckerberg, just for everyone knows, ran away from me at most encounters we've had. Run. Physically runs away from me. Like, eh, he has no masculinity of what he's talking about. But whatever. I mean, I do... I am aggressive, but that's another story.

9. 5:20 – 6:30

   Scott’s counterpoint: masculinity requires feminine influence and listening to women

   1. SGScott Galloway5:20

      The, the base... uh, uh, you can't have true, in my opinion, masculine energy without having a great deal of femininity surrounding yourself. I, I, I thought Walz's best line in the debate was his advice to young men, w- men was to surround yourself with smart women and listen to them. Because the things that make up masculinity, surplus value, you, you (laughs) you create more tax revenue than you absorb. You listen to people complain more than you complain. You're in amazing fucking physical shape. Why? So you can protect people. It, it all stems from wanting to protect people in your life, and also the thing that complements it, the thing that makes it true masculinity is being around... surrounded by smart people who create nuance, who create concern, who create care, and who create nurturing, usually women. The most masculine men in the world had very strong feminine influence. The most masculine men in the world have really wonderful relationships with their mother. It's the first person-

   2. KSKara Swisher6:23

      That is true.

   3. SGScott Galloway6:23

      ... they decide they would put themselves in harm's way to protect. So-

   4. KSKara Swisher6:29

      All right. Can I, can I-

   5. SGScott Galloway6:30

      Go ahead.

10. 6:30 – 6:51

    Kara reframes: ‘feminine energy’ is protective too—parental protectiveness as universal

    1. KSKara Swisher6:30

       ... put a little note in here? Uh, I think feminine energy is protective too. Like, I can't think of a more-

    2. SGScott Galloway6:35

       Agree.

    3. KSKara Swisher6:35

       ... a stronger energy than a, a mother's energy, for example, for my kid. I would kill people.

    4. SGScott Galloway6:39

       Mm-hmm.

    5. KSKara Swisher6:39

       I'd fucking... I killed them-

    6. SGScott Galloway6:40

       Yeah, when you're, when you're an ass man, if you approach a bear, you're just like-

    7. KSKara Swisher6:42

       (laughs)

    8. SGScott Galloway6:42

       ... "Make sure it doesn't have cubs around it."

    9. KSKara Swisher6:44

       Right. Exactly. So I don't... uh, the fact that he's defining this by masculine and female, I don't even know-

    10. SGScott Galloway6:49

        It has no role.

    11. KSKara Swisher6:49

        ... what he's talking about.

    12. SGScott Galloway6:51

        It has no ro-

11. 6:51 – 7:53

    Cosplaying masculinity and the ‘midlife crisis’ implication for Meta’s direction

    1. KSKara Swisher6:51

       It has no role. It's like, are you a good person and a strong protector of people, male or female, Mark? There's no such thing... it sounds like he just literally has been such a beta his whole life. And let me tell you, Mark Zuckerberg is a beta, eh, no matter how you slice it, who wants to be an alpha. I'm an alpha, Mark. You're a beta, just so you know. That's how it's going for you. But you have to clothe yourself and you have to do your fighting and you have to shoot, you know, buffalo and you gotta cook meat. This is all such bullshit c- cosplaying about what a man is. It's, it's now become, you are e-... uh, what's interesting is someone said, "I'm so glad we're back to hating Mark Zuckerberg." I do not hate him. I find him pathetic. That's absolutely true. Um, but it's just... I, I don't even understand how someone could just... eh, it feels like the mid-life crisis of... like, I thought Jeff Bezos was having one. This guy is in the middle of something that's personal and has nothing to do with it. And, but it has implications that are larger.

Episode duration: 7:53