EVERY SPOKEN WORD
125 min read · 24,642 words- 0:00 – 0:26
Intro
- KSKara Swisher
Linda, come on. We'll have fun.
- SGScott Galloway
Linda.
- KSKara Swisher
You can yell at me.
- SGScott Galloway
Come on, Linda.
- KSKara Swisher
You can scream at me. You can call me, uh, the C word. I don't care.
- NANarrator
(instrumental music)
- KSKara Swisher
Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- KSKara Swisher
We've got a lot to get to today, including Trump's latest tariff chaos and a major shakeup at Apple. But first, Scott, it's the day we knew was coming
- 0:26 – 12:23
X CEO Steps Down
- KSKara Swisher
for quite some time. Linda Yaccarino is stepping down as CEO of X after two years in the job. Yaccarino announced her departure in a post on X, thanking Elon, uh, calling the job an opportunity of a lifetime. (laughs) And he responded cold, "Thank you for your contributions."
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, yeah. Clearly, they're very warm.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
They're, they clearly are very close.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was like love, love all around. Um-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
... uh, let me just say, that was gold. Like w- if when we break up, can you write me thank you for your contributions just because? I just... (laughs) Thank you.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, no, that's, yeah. That's-
- KSKara Swisher
Thank you for your contributions. Anyway, she did not provide a reason for her departure, although we have speculated, uh, especially when X and AI merged. Um, the decision was reportedly months in the making. Of course it was. She was effectively demoted back in March thanks to X's merge with x.ai. And you and I talked about this, that she was layered essentially, and that she wasn't CE- she, she was a CEO in name only to start with. Now she really was layered, and she probably was getting layered further. Um, current and former employees, uh, told The Wall Street Journal Yaccarino's position was tenuous after clashes with management. And he brought in, uh, someone from Tubi, which is interesting, to be the CFO, and he, uh, he was x.ai, I think. And again, layering, layering, layering. And this is a woman who really wanted to be CEO. Uh, of course she picked the wrong person to do that with. Her exit comes amid major problems with x.ai's chatbot, Grok, this week. The bot was spewing anti-Semitic rhetoric, recommending a second Holocaust, and calling itself Mecha-Hitler. Uh, I don't know where that came from. I guess mechanized Hitler? I don't know. Um, so she's really leaving on a high note. By the way, Threads is about to catch up with, uh, with, with X also. And what else? Uh, probably she didn't wanna get in the middle of the beef between, uh ... She can't use lawsuits and threats of Trump retribution anymore since Elon's not friends with him anymore. Um, I can't wait to hear what you think, but let's first listen back to what we had to say about Linda last July. Like Linda, what are you doing? You're, you're not running a company. You're running a ... Like, he's just using it for a political cudgel. That's it. That's it. That's all that's happening here.
- SGScott Galloway
Le- uh, she's, she's the circus clown following around an elephant, scooping up his shit.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
She's constantly ... She's basically the most overpaid apologist in history, other than someone being in the Trump cabinet.
- KSKara Swisher
I don't know what she's doing there. It's just, I, I don't really care 'cause I don't really care for her. But, uh, it's, i- it's embarrassing. It's an embarrassing way to spend your life. If you w- if you're a real ad person, which you used to be, get a job at a real company. So, she's taken our advice, I guess. But, um, uh, in any case, uh, what do you think about what's happening here? And obviously, the ad market is gonna fall off drastically for this company 'cause of the safety issues for one, Nazis. It's now just not Nazi-adjacent. It's full Nazi. Um, and also, uh, the numbers are declining, and now advertisers probably don't feel the pressure anymore. Um, I, I doubt he'll bring in someone to replace her, I guess. I don't think he really cares for the business. And, um, talk about her ultimate legacy. I think it's probably the same as you said, correct?
- SGScott Galloway
Look, it reflects ... Linda moving on reflects the kindest thing you could say. It reflects a shift in strategy as opposed to a failed strategy. You know, Elon Musk, people don't remember, he offered $44 billion under what I assume was ketamine-induced mania and then did everything he could to try and back out of the deal. Basically sued the company, went all the way to the Delaware Chancery Court saying, "I don't have to close on this deal," when he realized he was vastly overpaying for a subscale social media company. And the judge said, "Fuck you. (laughs) You gotta close, boss. This still is a nation of laws." And the strategy was ... You know, there were several pillars to the strategy. One was to dramatically cut costs. His, Musk vision was, "I could have a minimum viable product or similar product with dramatically less costs." And to his credit, he shocked everyone and was right. He laid off 80% of the people, and the bottom line is I'm not sure you would know the product was much different three or six months uh, later. So-
- KSKara Swisher
Uh, except for the safety issues and the sort of the crap.
- SGScott Galloway
But that, but that was a, that was a strategic decision.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Not, not cost cutting. Uh, the reality is, is, uh, let's talk a little bit about that. Hate speech increased 50%. Transphobic slurs increased 260%. Homophobic tweets rose by 30%. Racist tweets, 42%. And engagement grew 70% for posts around hate speech, meaning this wasn't a, this wasn't a function of a lack of moderation or cost cutting. It was a function of the fact that Elon Musk, in my view, is, is racist and anti-Semitic. And let me be clear. Everyone dances around rich people. I am calling Elon Musk anti-Semitic. W- when you're accidentally making waves that look like Nazi gestures, when you have decided that something our nation needs to be focused on is the white genocide in South Africa, and when there tends to be a preponderance of swastikas appearing on your social media platform, this creates a pattern. These aren't mistakes. So this, quote unquote, "free speech" strategy, which was part of his strategy, was not free speech. He was happy to regulate certain people. It was a belief that ... I don't know, quite frankly, the, the guy, in my view, is got something deeply wrong with him and is very comfortable with normalizing hate speech. That is, that is racism. And we keep ... Because he's so rich, and he can land a rocket in scissors, we dance around it and say, "Oh, he has Tourette's." He's very disciplined about not saying outlandish, provocative things about the Chinese. He's very disciplined about not saying things about, you know, until recently, uh,... uh, what were very aggressive actions on the Trump administration. So, this strategy of free speech was nothing but a false flag. He also, uh, recognized, I think, and, and the strategy, he, he said, "Okay, this is an advertising platform, so I'm gonna bring in who is one of the most respected people in the ad world."
- KSKara Swisher
Indeed.
- SGScott Galloway
And Linda was that.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, tough, a tough customer-
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
... but really well respected. Well, and she was at-
- SGScott Galloway
People-
- KSKara Swisher
... NBC, for people who didn't know. She was there.
- SGScott Galloway
People hugely respected her.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And what this represents is, one, the strategy isn't working. The, the entity that has, that has benefited most from the acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk is, in fact, Meta. Meta is about to blow past Twitter because they, uh, Twitter basically created an opening, uh, for a platform that was, quite frankly, had more adult management. And also, uh, Mark Zuckerberg, one of the most brilliant business minds of the last generation, saw that if he tur- turned his fire hose of three billion users on a microblogging platform called Threads, he could take advantage of the fact that people were looking for something. Both of us are off of X.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. A- and actually, Th- Threads is a pretty good experience. I am on both Blue Sky and Threads. I like Threads for certain things. I like Blue Sky for certain things. But it d- it, it's the opening, is what you're talking about, is that he ... Uh, I would've stayed on Twitter had this not happened. Correct? You would've too, correct?
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, you had a couple million users. I had-
- 12:23 – 19:32
Grok’s Antisemitic Rant
- KSKara Swisher
someone. Um, Grok was too compliant to user prompts, too eager to please, to be manipulated, essentially. He just rolled out Grok 4, the latest iteration. The first, I guess, the first ones were too woke. This one was too Hitler, and I, we, I haven't used Grok. I don't use Grok that much. It's, it certainly interlaced in everything in Twitter. If you go over there, I was there, I was like, "It's ev- Grok is everywhere. So that should tell you everything." Um, that has nothing to do with discussions, right? It's always there asking you if you want help with something. So w- uh, what, how do you push b- uh, how do you do this if you're making a, you just said a minimally viable product is not really what makes money, right? You have to have a product that people like, they don't feel that they're gonna be assaulted all the time or, or, or, or in an unsafe environment for, for people. So what, w- what does he do with this kinda th- thing? Or he just walks right through it, like, "Ah, he was Hitler yesterday, now he's not Hitler," I guess.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but you said this early on. Twitter was always the subscale platform that could never-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... kind of command the sp- space it wanted to occupy. It had an amazing-
- KSKara Swisher
Not in advertising.
- SGScott Galloway
It had an amazing product, it could just never figure out a business model that scaled like the rest.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And he was unable to figure that out. But I'll go back to my original insult of-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... of Mr. Musk.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And that is, of all the social media platforms, of all the individuals who are, you know, icons of technology, if I asked you, uh, Kara, there's a product-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... that is calling for a second Holocaust-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... who would you ass- so who would you say is most likely-
- KSKara Swisher
Elon Musk.
- SGScott Galloway
... the person-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... in charge of that product?
- KSKara Swisher
Elon Musk.
- SGScott Galloway
And then you have to say, "Okay-"
- KSKara Swisher
Second is Mark Zuckerberg. Yeah, go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
(clears throat) And then you'd have to say, "Well, is that of a function of his embrace of free speech, or is it a tolerance and a normalization of the type of hate speech that can take us to very dark places?"
- KSKara Swisher
Number two.
- SGScott Galloway
And, uh, uh, I'm kind of like, we just make all of the... And where do we go? I don't want an individual in the business community who does not want to put in the safeguards such that a quarter of a billion people, w- such that we start normalizing the idea of a second Holocaust. I have no desire to pay taxes that subsidize his products if he can't figure out a way to not have his products recommend a second Holocaust. I don't think that's a very high bar-
- KSKara Swisher
No, it's not.
- SGScott Galloway
... for someone-
- KSKara Swisher
But this is typical of him. This is typical, you know, away from what it did.
- SGScott Galloway
But typical is a scary word. It's-
- 19:32 – 24:56
Tesla Troubles
- KSKara Swisher
was happening there. So, uh, uh, th- Tesla, on the other hand, is really problematic for him. Shares dropping nearly 7% after Elon announced this new America party. It's not rebounding. Um, he's also focused on, uh, the Epstein ... Th- the, the focus is out once again. He, this board of directors, which we know is not really a board-
- SGScott Galloway
Did you see his tweet about Bannon?
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, Bannon. Yes. He's pointing the finger-
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
... at Bannon in the Epstein ... I'm waiting for him to say, "Scott Galloway's in the Epstein files." Um, Te- Tesla stock's down 14%, it's down 40% from their December peak. He got in a fight with Dan Ives, who I think is, who has been a long time Tesla bull, far too long, says the company's at a tipping point.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, he has a price target on, he has a price target on Tesla of 500 bucks, and he's-
- KSKara Swisher
I know.
- SGScott Galloway
... a consulting backer.
- KSKara Swisher
But he's urging the board to set boundaries for Elon in both time at Tesla and his political activities. Elon responded to those suggestions on X saying, "Shut up, Dan." (laughs) God, he's so nice to his fans. It's not just political activities. Vehicle deliveries obviously fail.
- SGScott Galloway
No, Bannon is in the Epstein files-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I know.
- SGScott Galloway
... was the tweet he put out-
- KSKara Swisher
I know.
- SGScott Galloway
... to a quarter of a billion people.
- KSKara Swisher
I know.
- SGScott Galloway
But, but ju- let's just go product by product. X-
- KSKara Swisher
He's going to jail. He said he's also going back to prison, but go ahead. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
X, X is definitely ... They've given away the microblogging business to, to Mark, Mark Zuckerberg. So that means the product is severely diminished. The Tesla product is, at best, sideways. A lot of people would say it needs, uh, y- you used the word fresh or freshening. I still think it's a great car. He, he absolutely ignited the EV race. He deserves a lot of credit for that. SpaceX? On the plane yesterday I took from, from Spain, the Starlink product-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... is incredible.
- KSKara Swisher
Superb, superb. Superb, I know.
- SGScott Galloway
In, in ... I did a podcast from my plane, um-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh?
- SGScott Galloway
... yesterday.
- KSKara Swisher
Really?
- SGScott Galloway
And quite frankly, it was near the sam-
- KSKara Swisher
Can we do that? Can we fly around and do a pod- Okay. Okay. Go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs) It is, it, it, it is ... What he has pulled off with Starlink-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... is nothing short of remarkable. It really is an-
- 24:56 – 37:49
Tariffs Galore
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, we're back for a quick rundown of latest news on tariffs, which is exhausting. In- in... He was supposed to do 90 deals in, in 90 days.
- SGScott Galloway
90 days, 90 deals in 90 days.
- KSKara Swisher
Since we spoke, President Trump has though sent a letter to over 20 countries, including mostly countries w- that aren't really high on our, our list, and in some cases, we have surpluses with. He announced tariff rates between 20 and 40%. I think, like, the Maldives or something, like, there's countries he's... Moldova, I think, was in there. But anyway-
- SGScott Galloway
Moldova.
- KSKara Swisher
Moldova. Those rates might be adjusted.
- SGScott Galloway
That's where, that's where Khan is.
- KSKara Swisher
Khan? Shut up. (laughs) Those rates can be (laughs) adjusted according to... It can. Fine, I'll give in if you'll shut the fuck up. The rates may be adjusted according to each country's relationship, uh, with the US. Threatened 50% tariffs against Brazil, suggesting the decision was partly in response... not partly in response to the prosecution of former President Bolsonaro for his alleged role in the plot to overturn the 2022 election there. It feels like maybe he's help- trying to help a friend, uh, a similar friend. He announced a new 50% tariff on all imported copper and threatened to impose up to 200% tariffs on imported pharmaceutical products. Markets have stayed relaxed at the news. They're just ignoring him, partly in part because Pres- President Trump labeled this August 1st deadline as a firm, but not 100% firm. Taco, taco Trump always chickens out. It's actually maybe working in his favor, um, he gets to continue with this nonsense, um, and not worrying about the markets 'cause nobody believes he's gonna do anything 'cause he doesn't do anything. And the Brazil one is just beyond, and they just sit and wait him out. They're not, they're not rushing to make deals, obviously. Um, the Brazil thing, we're, we are in a trade surplus with Brazil. It's so ridiculous. And at the same time, you know, in our own labor markets, they're telling Medicaid recipients to go work on a farm, I guess. I don't re-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, that's gonna happen.
- KSKara Swisher
I don't, I don't even... That poor... I, I feel bad for them.
- SGScott Galloway
What, you have cerebral palsy?
- KSKara Swisher
The farms.
- SGScott Galloway
We know. Pick crops.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) Pick crops.
- SGScott Galloway
Pick almonds.
- KSKara Swisher
Like, the whole thing is insane. The, just the thi- way they're talking about it, like, "We're, oh, we're gonna replace them with Medi-" Like, I, I d- the fact that they merged Medicaid and farm workers, I just don't even understand wh- they must sit there in a room and go, "Yeah, yeah, let's get the Medicaid workers." Anyway, tariffs. Go for it, Scott.
- SGScott Galloway
We are living in such a simulation of Idiocracy that it just wouldn't shock me if I see a headline that Linda Yaccarino is the new Secretary of Commerce.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, y- you- you-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, God.
- SGScott Galloway
... you used the correct term with Brazil.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
We have a trade surplus-
- KSKara Swisher
Surplus.
- SGScott Galloway
... with Brazil. Meaning-
- KSKara Swisher
Explain what that means for the people. Thank you, Scott.
- SGScott Galloway
Meaning, meaning, first off, they buy more of our shit, right, than we buy of theirs. So if they do what they're going to do, and that is they'll say, "Okay. 50% tariff on, on NVIDIA chips and on, uh, uh, F-150s," then we're gonna reciprocate, or I'm sorry, if you wanna charge us for whatever, our Embraer planes or our bananas or whatever Brazil imports in, other than, like... Can you tax supermodels?
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
Jesus Christ, have you been to the South of Brazil, Kara?
- KSKara Swisher
They're pretty people.
- SGScott Galloway
I go surfing every year in Floripa-
- 37:49 – 47:03
Apple’s Shake-Up
- KSKara Swisher
more news. Apple COO Jeff Williams will retire from the company later this year. The company says the move isn't part of a long planned succession. Uh, Sabih Khan, v- Apple's VP of operations will take over the COO, uh, role later this year while Williams continues to oversee design and health initiatives until retirement. Williams first joined the company in 1998 and had a hand in introduction of the iPod and iPhone, and led the effort on the Apple Watch. The COO was seen as a potential successor, I think one of the top ones, along with Craig Federighi and John Ternus. A- and then there's, there's a bu- uh, uh, another candidate, a woman, uh, Deirdre O'Brien, who's been doing a lot of the jobs Tim Cook has been doing, a very close associate of Cook. But, but this guy was seen as, um, that, and nobody really pays attention to the, um, that issue at Apple, even though it's probably pending relatively soon, and the next CEO is gonna have their hands full with a lot of challenges. Uh, Tim has sort of ridden this high, high up, but they've got a lot of challenges coming up, including in AI, and elsewhere. They just lost an AI head to, um, Meta. Any thoughts on this?
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, I think, look, I think this is an incredible company that the announcement I saw that I wanted to get your viewpoint on is they say they're gonna shift their production of iPhones from, um, China to India, and, and they claim they could do it in, like, two years. I'm like, "That's gonna take 10 or 15 years." But to, to your specific point about succession planning, Apple has, in my ... A- a- Apple just has an incredible bench, and really deep talent, and they don't have defections. It's not a revolving door. I think they are very good about y- I just think they have just an incredibly deep talent pool, and I would imagine, you know, i- uh, th- people go to sm- uh, they have a pipeline of incredible human capital, and also Tim Cook. Tim Cook strikes me as the kind of CEO, c- kind of the first tell o- of a CEO from a board member in my view is you, a good public companies demand that once a year they spend some time on succession planning. And if the CEO is obviously spending time trying to figure out how to mature, hold on, and compensate and put in front of the board at least two or three people that could take, that could slip into his or her shoes, if they're not doing that, that means they're, like many CEOs you can understand-
- KSKara Swisher
Narcissist. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... self-absorbed, a narcissist-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... and not thinking about shareholder value. Really good CEOs, I mean, the CEO, I remember, uh, the first thing I thought of the CEO at The New York Times when I was on the board there, I'm like, "She's not a good CEO. She's not, she's shooting everyone that gets close to the iron ring. She's not, she's not maturing a successor." And really good CEOs make an effort to bring in other people and give them exposure to the board such that, uh, there are, like, five... I bet, I bet at Apple, there are literally five or six people that could do a reasonable job of being the CEO of that company right now.
- KSKara Swisher
Let me go through them. Hardware engineering chief, John, I think it's Ternus. He's a younger guy. He's apparently very dynamic. I've never met him actually, but he's, he's moved up quit- pretty quickly. Obviously, Craig Federighi has been around forever, and very, um, confident and you see him at a lot of the events. He's the head of software engineering, uh, has done a lot of jobs. Uh, this Deirdre O'Brien has run retail. She's done all kinds of things and a lot of logistical stuff that, that Cook did. She did, she's, she has the most similar pattern to Cook, and what was interesting about Jobs is nobody thought that it was Cook that was gonna get it, and Jobs was, uh, a very good CEO and was also bringing people along. There was another more flashy person they thought might get it, but Jobs o- anointed Cook, which I think has turned out to be one of the best decisions, speaking of which, from a CEO, um, from a CEO's point of view is really, he really set it on a course of real, uh, uh, after his death, real, um, eh, eh, explosion and value and, and everything else. So there's a lot, and then there's many others, and one of the things that struck me when I was looking at this list is, uh, among the people on there, now a lot of them are older, but not all of them are, um, is that, um, uh, everyone on that list when people were... When Walt retired, uh, m- the Apple who had been, who had covered a lot gave a little, his last Apple event, gave him a little cocktail party. All those same people were there. Like, uh, I just like, "Oh, look." Uh, and I went, and I don't, didn't really mix with Apple CEO, uh, executives that much. I mean, I know them, but even among the ones that aren't on the top, they're all really competent. Eddie Cue, et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, you're right. It's a very no drama kind of group of people, so we'll see. I don't know. What do they need to focus in on?... the, uh, the Apple, next Apple CEO for. If you had to pick one critical thing going forward, say Tim retired tomorrow, what's the biggest... I guess, AI would be my choice.
- SGScott Galloway
That's a really interesting question. I, I, I think you invest in your, your opportunities. And I've always thought th- Tim sort of... He'll be remembered, I think, as a guy who was able to, to take the innovation and the marketing genius of Steve Jobs. And what he did was... So Steve Jobs kind of branded, or set, or lionized, or canonized the great marketing age. He was just such a showman, right? And also, the decision to take $6 billion out of advertising and create 550 temples to the brand called Apple Stores and go vertical, that was, in my opinion, that was almost the same level of genius as the iPhone, 'cause other people had as good a iPhone. No one has Apple Stores. There's just no... What distribution in tech, uh, Microsoft... Do you want to go hang out at a Microsoft store?
- KSKara Swisher
No.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, where-
- KSKara Swisher
Let me tell you, people laughed at Jobs back then, if you remember. Do you remember that? People don't.
- SGScott Galloway
And you take-
- KSKara Swisher
Although it was a big opening. I was there actually. But people laughed at him for doing it.
- SGScott Galloway
They're incredible.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, the, i- i- it really is going vertical. He, he revolutionized technology and what it meant to spend money on marketing by going, by controlling-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... your distribution. You go buy an Android phone, you walk into a place with bad carpeting and a guy living in his parent's basement with a name tag-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... and you think, "Jesus Christ." And then you go into an Apple Store and you're like, "Do they serve lattes here?"
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, they do.
- SGScott Galloway
"'Cause I'd like to take a date here." I, I-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, think about those places, right?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
So he kind of marked the branding age. Really Tim Cook marked the supply chain age, and that is, he built the most complicated, robust supply chain in the world and basically said, "I can give you what would have cost you a million dollars 10 or 15 years ago. I can produce it for a thousand bucks using the most complex, robust supply chain, mostly out of China, that brings together 1,600 parts and produces a million of these things a day." So-
- KSKara Swisher
With a downside, they trained up China, but go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, and also, quite frankly, became very subject to sort of the political machinations of a f- fucking weirdo with his head up his ass called-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... the President.
- 47:03 – 51:31
Shein Files for IPO in Hong Kong
- KSKara Swisher
we'll move on. One last thing. Uh, Shein, your, one of your favorite companies, has confi- con- confidentially filed an IPO in Hong Kong 18 months after filing to go public on the London Stock Exchange. The company has struggled to receive regulatory approval in London and is attempting to put pressure on the UK. The company has been pushing back against UK regulators who want more transparency about its labor practices in China, which is no surprise. Shein was valued at $100 billion in 2022, but that dropped to 66 billion in 2023. Um, w- any predictions? I'd love to hear what you think. I know you think the world of this c- or, well, a lot of people don't, by the way, this, this sort of fas- fashion thing, etc. But, uh, w- what do you, what, what should happen here? What do you imagine? They'll just go public in Hong Kong, correct? I mean, that's would be my guess.
- SGScott Galloway
200 companies have filed for an IPO this year. The Hong Kong... The bottom line is the Hong Kong market is on fire. The London IPO market, with the loss of this IPO, I mean... Uh, (sighs) I love... I, I really have... I'm starting to get sentimental about the UK 'cause I, I'm th- I'm, uh, been there three years, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna move back to the US. And I love it there, and they have all of the underpinnings of a, of an economy that should be booming. Great intellectual propert- property, an incredible culture that attracts some of the best and brightest in capital. Really, really aggressive, smart people. They can't get out of their own damn way. And-... for them to have, Shein will probably be one of the biggest IPOs of the year. They should have done anything they could to try and breathe new life into their IPO market, 'cause as of now, the, uh, is it the LSE or whatever it is, is basically done, it's out of business. The UK might as well close shop in terms of IPOs. And what's interesting is actually, the London Exchange would say, "It wasn't our fault. We, they couldn't get Chinese approval." But anyways, that's another, another talk show. Meanwhile, while n- while you were sleeping, the Hong Kong market is on fire. And so Shein is just going to where the money is. They're going to where they can, A, have the most seamless path-
- KSKara Swisher
Right, without being asked-
- SGScott Galloway
... to what they-
- KSKara Swisher
... too many questions, too many thorny questions.
- SGScott Galloway
Sure. And so one, they deserve to have scrutiny. Fast fashion raises a lot of very troubling questions. But two, what Shein would say is, "Okay, now do Nike." (laughs) "Now do Apple." And a lot of the, a lot of the people pushing back on this, this company are people, are, are organizations sponsored by incumbent retailers who would rather just keep selling you cashmere sweaters for $200 versus 40. So, but I do think they're gonna get out in Hong Kong, but they're just going to where there, where there's, where it's a seamless route to the IPO. And the Hong Kong market, who would've guessed it, is on fire right now.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Well, that's interesting. Uh, you're sad about them leaving London. How cute, how cute. It is true. When I go to London, I think, "Look at all this creativity. Why isn't it more dynamic?" Like, you know what I mean?
- SGScott Galloway
Se- 70% of the companies have gone public in the last 10 years are below their offering price.
- KSKara Swisher
I kn- I know. It's really fascinating to me. Anyway, uh-
- SGScott Galloway
Name, name an important tech company in the UK.
- KSKara Swisher
You can't. I, I, I've, I have had this debate with people in England a lot. W- y- I told you this. Years ago, I went there for, it was called Silicon Valley Meets Cambridge or Oxford. I can't remember. And it was, like, me, Reid Hoffman, a whole bunch of us, and we debated. And Reid and I had to argue in, in the next ... and this was 20 years ago at this point. Um, in the next five years, who, which country was gonna have the most billion-dollar companies? And Reid and I had to argue US, and the British people had to argue London. And we gave all these r- we did a really good job, but we lost because it was a British audience. (laughs) But, um, but, but I remember thinking, "There's no friggin' way this group of people is gonna be able to be as dynamic." And they didn't, and at the time we said, "Google, da, da-da, da-da." And, and, and I said, and we were like, "England? Zero." It was like, there was one company, the one, the guy who died in that sailing accident. That guy, he had a company, um, that got all messed up in controversy, but that was the o- there was one UK company that had dynamism, and it was just interesting. Anyway, um, I will be sad you're leaving there. I didn't come and stay with you there. Hm. I need to do that quickly. Um, all right-
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, trust me, you will. The house-
- KSKara Swisher
I-
- SGScott Galloway
... will be there. You'll, uh, the-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, the hou- I know. You'll be away all summer. Hmm. Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Pretty soon, I'll ... Pretty soon, you'll be on podcast drinking tea-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... like, yelling at my dogs-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) I should.
- SGScott Galloway
... your sock's off.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I will. I'm gonna plan on it. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.
- 51:31 – 59:28
Predictions
- KSKara Swisher
Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction. Actually, can I do one really quickly?
- SGScott Galloway
Of course.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay. So OpenAI is getting close to releasing an AI-powered web browser. According to Reuters, the browser is slated to launch in the next few weeks and will be competing with Chrome, giving OpenAI a way to access, uh, user data. Perplexity just launched its AI-powered browser, Comet, this week. I don't know who the winner of the browser wars could be, but I couldn't be more delighted that there is now competition in this area. Uh, Microsoft ve- tried very hard. Um, Netscape was the original one. It got ran over by Microsoft, which then got ran over by, uh, Google. Um, and I love, uh, I, I'd love to see what the next generation of browsers brings. Not that I use a browser that much anymore, but I, uh, it should be smarter. It's so dumb when I use it, and so I think it's ... I, I, I suspect OpenAI will have the most popular one, given they're the most popular ... Everyone I talk to uses ChatGPT. It is the Kleenex. It's the Google of the situation. That doesn't mean it's gonna last forever, 'cause I think Claude is considered better by many people. Perplexity has interesting things. But I'm really excited about this thing, and I, I suspect the winner is going ... This is what I predict, the winner will be OpenAI and not Google because they haven't innovated enough on this. And so the people that, with an interest in winning are the most innovative. So, that's my prediction. Thank you.
- SGScott Galloway
I like it.
- KSKara Swisher
Do you have any thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
Um, no. I, I think that's interesting.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, look, I'll, I'll be quick.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, uh, these new tariff threats, 90 deals in 90 days, it's gonna be ... What I'm predicting is the mother of all Rebovens.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
Remember when-
- KSKara Swisher
What's that?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, the Reboven was that ridiculous van, uh, and distraction when, when Tesla had their, quote-unquote-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... last autonomous vehicle launch.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
They're like, "Oh, shit. We have nothing here." Mm-hmm. "Let's, let's, let's drive up a big bus and say-"
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
"... that we're launching a van, and let's have-"
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
"... let's have-"
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
"... robot ... Let's create distractions." You're about to see the Trump administration go into panic mode when all of these countries that they keep extending the deadline and keep sending out threatening letters just say, "Uh, sorry, boss. We're, we're not, we're not showing up. We're not ... You know, you can threaten us all you want." They'll, they, uh ... You're gonna see the most ridiculous jazz hands in the next three weeks claiming victories. First off, these two, quote-unquote, trade deals between the UK and Vietnam aren't even deals. They're agreements to talk about a new deal, and you're gonna see them start to announce the most ridiculous hollow victories to try and, you know, turn chicken shit into chicken salad, put lipstick on a pig.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, this is just, uh-
- KSKara Swisher
It's nonsense.
- SGScott Galloway
... it is just so ... It, it, it, i- i- it is gonna start to get comical the shit they're gonna announce and pretend is a victory.
- KSKara Swisher
It's incredible. It is an incredible thing. It doesn't really work either. That's what's interesting about it. Does it?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, it, it, it ... What, what this, what they would never do-
Episode duration: 59:28
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