PivotWhere Is Mitch McConnell? Kara Swisher (Still) Wants Answers | Pivot
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
65 min read · 13,274 words- 0:00 – 6:20
Intro
- JSJacob Soboroff
Now he's saying he wants to change the name of the Strait of Hormuz to the Strait of Trump. It is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
- KSKara Swisher
I want to call it the Gay of Hormuz, but go ahead.
- JSJacob Soboroff
[laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
[upbeat music] Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and this is the final day of...
- SPSpeaker
[upbeat music] Scott-free August.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, it's September, but Scott is still gone. We don't know where he is now. Uh, he'll make his triumphant return next week after Labor Day. In the meantime, I have my final guest co-host. He's a senior national and political reporter for MS NOW! and the anchor of Connect with Jacob Soboroff. It is he, Jacob. Hello, Jacob.
- JSJacob Soboroff
What a delight, Kara. And I was confused if it was gonna go to Scott-free September, but, uh, happy to know it's, it's still Scott-free August.
- KSKara Swisher
No, we can't do that.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Okay. [laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
That's not... We'll, there might be Scott-free all the time at some point.
- JSJacob Soboroff
[laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
Um, by the way, judging from just when you were getting ready, you were taking off your sweatshirt, and we thought you were gonna do a Scott thing, which is show us his chest, which he likes to do. And you very-
- JSJacob Soboroff
Never, I would not [laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
... politely moved off the ca- We, we appreciated that. We appreciated your entire-
- JSJacob Soboroff
Nobody wants to see this dad bod.
- KSKara Swisher
Well, in any case, we don't want to see Scott's either.
- JSJacob Soboroff
[laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
We have, we are subject to it on a, on, on a twice weekly basis sometimes. Anyway, we appreciate it. We appreciate it very much.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Thank you so much. I'm, I'm, seriously, I'm, I'm, uh, I'm tickled to do this. This is very, very cool and fun for me. Thank you.
- KSKara Swisher
Well, it w- it was kicked off with Hillary Clinton, and you are the last one. We've had some great, uh, co-hosts, uh, Kaitlan Collins-
- JSJacob Soboroff
The, the downward slide
- KSKara Swisher
... Chelsea Handler.
- JSJacob Soboroff
I was just watching Kaitlan's [laughs] .
- KSKara Swisher
No. Yeah, it was good. She was great. So where are you b- broadcasting now from?
- JSJacob Soboroff
This is our-
- KSKara Swisher
Los Angeles?
- JSJacob Soboroff
Yeah, this is our LA bureau, um, at MS NOW! And, uh, this is, this is the newsroom.
- KSKara Swisher
So the, so the newsroom. And you, you live in LA now, right? That's where you're broadcasting your shows from.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Born and raised, and I spent the summer in New York.
- KSKara Swisher
You wrote a book.
- 6:20 – 12:45
Remembering Gloria Steinem
- KSKara Swisher
mention Gloria Steinem has died-
- JSJacob Soboroff
Yes
- KSKara Swisher
... at, uh, age 92. She was a feminist, an activist, a journalist, and so much more. Uh, we talk a lot about business on the podcast, and, uh, Gloria once described herself as an entrepreneur of social change. Um, sharing that title many times over. Um, I've met her on several occasions, really interesting, sometimes controversial, some, with- even within the feminist movement. Uh, very good journalist, if you go back and read her stuff. I remember loving her, uh, Playboy bunny, uh, piece. It was... If you go back and read, it's actually quite good, uh, where she was a Playboy bunny or just a, I guess, an, a sort of investigative piece. It was just interesting. Um, uh, and just a very impactful person, and it's kind of interesting that, you know, two people I consider some of the leading feminists, uh, uh, uh, Dolly Parton and Gloria Steinem, uh, die within the same couple of, you know, weeks or a week or so. How do you look at this change? How would you cover it on Saturday, for example?
- JSJacob Soboroff
I just said to my team, I have about 25 people that work for me, and I think three of them are men. Um, I almost wanna hand the floor over to the team. Um, the-- I got, never got to meet Gloria. Um, I did get to meet Dolly, uh, which was one of the most extraordinary experiences I've ever had. Um, but w- when I think about Gloria, two things. One, I was just reading the Ms. Magazine 50th anniversary, which she founded, um, introduction that she wrote. And I guess I didn't realize how much of what that magazine did was informed by the readers and the letters that were written in to Gloria and how much, um, almost in an open-source way 50 years ago, she let the second wave feminism movement, and particularly through the magazine, be guided by the people who were her readers, her clientele, her customers. And I'm so inspired by some of the stuff that, that I was reading. The other thought that flashed through my head is I'm the father of a, a 10-year-old boy and a six-year-old girl, and when my son... I guess I'll never forget that she was the honorary co-chair of the Women's March, um, which was the day after the inauguration of Donald Trump. And I was in Washington, D.C. for the first inauguration, and I was out on the lawn where Donald Trump said it was the, and Sean Spicer said it was the greatest crowd of all time, and I wrote in my first book about how I stood there on that big, white, empty plastic tarp-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, it was not the greatest
- JSJacob Soboroff
... and no one was there. Nope.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Um, but then I came home that night, and the following morning, I wasn't supposed to work, but my wife, Nicole, and our son, Noah, and a bunch of her, um, girlfriends and our, our, and their kids went to the march. And I called, uh, the bureau chief at NBC News at the time, Polly Pal, after dropping them off and said, "You know, I would like to report." And I have never, ever, I'm getting the chills talking about this, um, seen a crowd of people like I saw, um, that day. And I remember watching her make a speech from Washington, D.C. I remember standing on-
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, you do
- JSJacob Soboroff
... on the roof of-
- KSKara Swisher
I was there
- JSJacob Soboroff
... man. What was that like?
- KSKara Swisher
Cool. It was amazing. You know, a lot of pussy hats. I mean-
- JSJacob Soboroff
[laughs] Exactly
- KSKara Swisher
... a lot of people felt like it... You know, I, I'm, I'm here and there on marches because I feel like sometimes, what's the point? Like, I think a lot of people felt very hopeful that there was a point, and then you had, you know, uh, especially this administration, which is, I would say, misogynist in many ways.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Yep.
- KSKara Swisher
Um, would, uh, it was, it was great. It was great. I took my sons. I took my two sons. Um, and-
- JSJacob Soboroff
Exactly
- KSKara Swisher
... uh, uh, I didn't, uh, force them into pussy hats, but they would have if I asked. [laughs] Uh, especially my older son, who I consider very much a feminist. Um, but, uh, but it was, uh, more so than me in a lot of ways. Uh, and, uh, he, uh, we, they had a great time. We had a great... We just had a, it was a joyous occasion.
- JSJacob Soboroff
That's how I felt, too. And, and so while I never got to meet Gloria, um, to me, in a way, in spirit, that was the closest I've come to, um, being around her. I remember standing on the roof of the satellite truck because I wanted to get a vantage point of how many... I've, uh, you know, I've been to a lot of marches, and I actually, I really do believe in the power of all of that. I've seen it, um, kick Greg Vivino out of every one of those cities just in the last year. And-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Yes, you're right. There, there are some
- JSJacob Soboroff
... you know, th- there's an extraordinary power in it. And I, uh, looking back at the pictures today, I still have the sign, actually, that my wife carried there, um, in the back of our Volvo, and, and I found it the other day. Um, and, uh, I, to me, I, I can't wait, actually, to talk to our kids about the fact that Noah was there that day and that Gloria Steinem was one of the people behind it.
- KSKara Swisher
What did the sign say? There were some good signs.
- JSJacob Soboroff
"Love wins forever. Love wins forever."
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, that's a nice one.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Yeah, that was a good one.
- KSKara Swisher
See, you have a nice family. [laughs]
- JSJacob Soboroff
No, wait, I gotta find it. Where's my phone?
- KSKara Swisher
All the mean ones.
- JSJacob Soboroff
There were some other good ones. Hang on. I'll find it. I was just looking at these.
- 12:45 – 13:26
Hegseth Body-Shames Canadian Cadets
- JSJacob Soboroff
posted about those, uh-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh
- JSJacob Soboroff
... two Canadian-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- JSJacob Soboroff
... s- one cadet and one sol, uh, one trai- uh, you know-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- JSJacob Soboroff
... instructor at the summer camp, um-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- JSJacob Soboroff
... military summer camp for, I think, kids and teenagers.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, it is.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Basically body shaming them. What a s- what I said on the show was, "What a sad loser," that th- this is the dude that's in charge of the most powerful military in human history, and he is shitposting. But that's, that is the world in which we live, which is why, um, I'm so, I'm so... I f- I think I felt so emotional today when I saw the news about Gloria Steinem, and I saw the reaction-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- JSJacob Soboroff
... of people, not just on my show, but in other, you know, Signal chats that I'm in with other journalists.
- KSKara Swisher
She lived quite a life. Um-
- JSJacob Soboroff
Very good
- KSKara Swisher
... we've got a lot more to get into
- 13:26 – 20:50
Apple Caves on “Lake America”
- KSKara Swisher
today, so let's dig in. Apple just followed Google's lead in being a quisling, changing Lake Ontario to Lake America for US users of Apple Maps. Trump celebrated the update, writing on Truth Social that the renaming is now complete, ratified, and binding, none of which is true.
- JSJacob Soboroff
[chuckles]
- KSKara Swisher
The name change came on John Ternus' first day as Apple CEO, taking the reins from Tim Cook. Uh, just not a surprise. Google had, uh, had done it before, uh, as I said. Um, and one company, a little company called MapQuest, which I covered [laughs] 100 years ago, is back, baby. Uh-
- JSJacob Soboroff
Love it
- KSKara Swisher
... the downloads at 1.5, uh, million, the top of the charts. Actually, I changed myself. It's-- I forgot how good it is, actually, uh, how, how un-uncreative Google Maps are, um, and changed everything. And then I've spent the past couple of days sort of giving advice to people how to shift off of s- uh, search off of Google, that you can go to DuckDuckGo or, or some others, uh, which I use DuckDuckGo. And then this morning, I moved to the Vivaldi browser, which is a Norwegian browser.
- JSJacob Soboroff
I saw you post that. How is it?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. It's great. It's a great browser. It's a, you know, it's a much, you know, very privacy focused 'cause it's from Europe. It's from Norway. Um, I like... So far, so good. It's just getting off of things you're used to, right? Like, you kinda do things. Now, a lot of stuff only works on Chrome, for example, this, th-this, the, the, the software we use for this show, for example. Uh, so I can't use that. So you have to use it in some ways, but disentangling yourself a little bit or having some sensibility, uh, is hard 'cause you, you can't really pick... There's things that you can't avoid. There's things that you can, but I want people to have a sense that there is choices that you can make as consumers and messages you can send. Um, let me hear what you think about this Lake America. I mean, it, it followed in the wake of, uh, Gulf of, you know, the Gulf One. Uh-
- JSJacob Soboroff
Gulf of America. Yeah, exactly
- KSKara Swisher
... Gulf of America. Um, he's talked about doing an ocean. I think it's just bothering people, changing the Pacific Ocean or whatever.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Now he's saying he wants to change the name of the Strait of Hormuz to the Strait of Trump. It is the dumbest thing-
- KSKara Swisher
Whatever
- JSJacob Soboroff
... I have ever heard.
- KSKara Swisher
I wanna call it the Gay of Hormuz, but go ahead.
- JSJacob Soboroff
[laughs] It's pathetic, um-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- JSJacob Soboroff
... and really sad, and obviously just a massive attempt to distract us from the war of choice that he has gotten us into, and 18 US service members are, are dead, and the USS Lincoln is rolling in rusty w-to Thailand, and there is no strategy in the war, and people are suffering in the United States and can barely afford to, um, pay for anything, groceries much less, uh-
- KSKara Swisher
Gas
- JSJacob Soboroff
... gasoline. Exactly. And, um, what are these companies doing? What are these companies do-- And Rich, it-
- KSKara Swisher
What do you think they're doing?
- JSJacob Soboroff
What do-- I think it-
- KSKara Swisher
But it's a really-
- JSJacob Soboroff
It calls back to the moment at the inauguration when all of the tech titans were sitting right behind him, and they're obviously, obviously, um, in some attempt, my opinion, to, to curry favor with him. And I just love the MapQuest thing because I used to... Did you print them out? I used to print them out.
- KSKara Swisher
No, no. I have printed them out. You don't have to now. They have an excellent app that actually is lovely.
- JSJacob Soboroff
So I'm gonna download the app too. I haven't done it yet. But I, I used to-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- JSJacob Soboroff
... I love that they're-
- KSKara Swisher
You can put it on your CarPlay, by the way. It can go onto CarPlay.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Oh, I didn't know that.
- KSKara Swisher
You just use it from there. Absolutely. Yeah.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Okay. So I'll, I'll, I will do that. But no, I, it, actually, there is some level of nostalgia. I have recently talked to so many people about how, um, my dad collected for a long time typewriters. Analog lifestyle is coming back into vogue in a way, and, like, it's, it is a very nostalgic feeling to even hear the words MapQuest, and I'd so much rather be messing around with that and playing with that than, like, you know, giving Donald Trump the satisfaction or... But I don't, you know, it's very, very disappointing.
- 20:50 – 36:01
Trump's Mail-in Voting Crackdown
- KSKara Swisher
his quest to find voter fraud, uh, something that-
- JSJacob Soboroff
Oh my gosh
- KSKara Swisher
... you've all covered a lot, whether it exists or not. Hundreds of federal agents from the Department of Homeland Security are working at finding non-citizens on voter rolls. This, this very small problem, and what's being internally called the Unlawful Voter Initiative. Meanwhile, a whistleblower is warning of potentially catastrophic problems with the new US Postal Service screening system for mail-in ballots, which would be used if Trump's executive order survives the courts, which probably it will not. That said, they still may go ahead with it. Uh, t- like today in Missouri, they said they might go ahead with stuff that's already been decided, um, j- around gerrymandering. Um, the whistleblower says that the system is being rushed out without enough testing under a 0% failure policy. One barcode error could delay thousands of ballots from being sent out. Now, you spoke with Letitia James, the New York-
- JSJacob Soboroff
I did
- KSKara Swisher
... Attorney General this past Sunday. Let's listen to what she said about Trump's crackdown on mail-in voting.
- SPSpeaker
If you think affordability is a hoax, if you recognize that tariffs are having an impact on groceries and on the economy, if you have nothing to offer, then you have to cheat. And at the end of the day, um, mail-in ballots, uh, have been secure, and the Constitution basically gives the right of elections, time, place, and manner, to the states, not to the president and not to the postal system. And so it's important that individuals recognize, um, that the election system is up to the state, and we have not had a problem with regards to mail-in ballots.
- KSKara Swisher
Now, North Carolina is mailing ballots out this week, um, and, and many other states are moving to, to protect these things and urging people to use those drop boxes and everything else. So how chaotic could this get as more states start sending out ballots?
- JSJacob Soboroff
I think it... I mean, that's the whole intention here, is that he continually lose... Let me back up and just say you're exactly right. Voter fraud is a, a, a solution in search of a problem. The idea that we have some kind of widespread voter fraud, the idea that there are non-citizens voting in any way that would meaningfully affect the outcome, um, of any election is just a pile of bullshit. Sorry. Um, and for many, many years before I was a journalist, I was an election reform advocate with an organization called why tuesday.org, and the whole idea was let's move election day to the weekend. Why do we vote on Tuesday?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- JSJacob Soboroff
No good reason.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- JSJacob Soboroff
And, uh-
- KSKara Swisher
Good idea, or give people the day off perhaps-
- JSJacob Soboroff
Yeah
- KSKara Swisher
... 'cause it's important to-
- JSJacob Soboroff
Make it a holiday-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- JSJacob Soboroff
... move it, whatever.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Um, and, and all these years after the Voting Rights Act was passed, our voter turnout was amongst the lowest of all, so many countries in the world. During COVID, it slightly went up because we were forced to vote by mail, um, forced to make voting more accessible, uh, and convenient, but also secure. And there, the evidence it, um, is indisputable that voting by mail is secure, uh, and is safe, it's effective, and it's a way for people to exercise the franchise. What are they trying to do? They're trying to sow, um, chaos. Donald Trump said about his SAVE Act, his voter suppression bill, that it would guarantee Republican rule, I think, for 100 years. Somebody will correct me-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- JSJacob Soboroff
... if I got that wrong. But-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Something like that
- JSJacob Soboroff
... um, he couldn't pass it. The Republicans wouldn't pass it, and so he went about all this other cockamamie ways of trying to, um, take the elections. And if he cannot get this mail-in, if the Supreme Court, um, blocks him from doing it, what he's gonna do, um, so many experts that I talk to think, including Election observers, um, secretaries of state, administrators, that he could very well use it as a pretext on the back end to go do what he did in Fulton County, Georgia, which is to go in and seize ballots and say there's fraud or this was a fraudulent election. Think about like in Texas, if James Talarico, um, prevails there, uh, over Ken Paxton. He, he will use it as a way to say, after the fact, these were rigged elections. I didn't get to do what I wanted to do to make elections more secure, and so now I'm gonna, I'm gonna go in there and send my Justice Department or my FBI, and he's already doing it. He's sending these Department of Justice... I was in-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, Mark Wayne Mullen
- JSJacob Soboroff
Yeah, it's ridiculous.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- JSJacob Soboroff
I was in, um, where was I? In Detroit, uh, where he sent observers in the, during the Michigan primary. He did it in Minnesota. He did it out here in LA during-
- KSKara Swisher
Although the Wyoming governor's complaining about it, not a, not an anti-
- JSJacob Soboroff
Republicans-- The, uh, the thing about election administrators is that, and, and the people who work under them, they are some of the most civic-minded, nonpartisan, um, dedicated civil servants that I have ever met, and I have met many civil servants across many different types of government, and municipal government, and state government, and federal government. They're doing it because they want everyday ordinary people to have a say in how we run our lives. And it is pathetic that the leader of the free world, uh, of our country, um, targets these folks who all they wanna do is, uh, uh, allow all of us to be able to speak our minds. And it comes from this place, my opinion, of, of just being a small person.
- 36:01 – 45:45
Global Bond Sell-Off
- KSKara Swisher
more news. The global sell-off in government bonds is pushing borrowing, uh, costs to multi-decade highs. The US, uh, uh, 10-year Treasury yield briefly hit about 4.8%, its highest since early 2025. That is a big number. That means it costs more to borrow just for everyone, including the US government. Let's listen to what our friend at Pug, Bill Cohen, has to say about it.
- SPSpeaker
James Carville famously said that he wanted to, uh, come back reincarnated as the bond market, and He says that because, uh, the bond market is all-powerful, uh, can topple despots and, uh, can even get the current, uh, occupant of the Oval Office to change, uh, his policy directions and change his mind, even though he's a stubborn guy and loves to double down. And what we see now is that the bond market is basically a fount of wisdom, and right now it's sort of flashing bright yellow, nearly red. Forty trillion dollars of debt, uh, 6%, uh, budget deficits, war in Iran, Strait of Hormuz closed, rising gasoline prices and oil prices. Uh, inflation generally being at three-plus percent is not sustainable, not good for the economy, and, uh, we need to start taking remedial action and quickly. Basically, the bond market is telegraphing economic distress, uh, and we better get our mind around it and fix it, or else we could be headed for another dreaded financial crisis.
- KSKara Swisher
Uh, by the way, Bill Cohen has a new book out called Money to Burn: The Unvarnished Truth about, uh, Leon Black, Apollo, and the Rise of the New Wall Street. Um, this is a really big deal. This is something Trump has sort of hung his hat on the stock market raging, which it, it has been, and Wall Street has said, "Oh, we're not gonna do anything about him because, 'cause, uh, 'cause the stock market's doing so well," and it really is the economy. And of course, speaking of another sycophantic nitwit, Scott Bessent, who has really soiled his reputation entirely, was trying to fight the bond market, which means I, I was-- Even I know you don't fight the bond market. It just doesn't. You never win. Uh, it know-- Wall Street is hard. It's a greed machine, and so it will do what is best for itself. And in that way, it's a good, it's a good indication of where people are. So, uh, talk a little bit about this because I think this goes to affordability. It goes to a lot of issues.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Yes. That's, that's the terrifying part, uh, of all of this for me, and I'm certainly no economist, and nobody should, uh, listen to me for financial advice. But what I will say is I live in the most unaffordable city and the most unaffordable state in the union. It is not hard to see, um, the dividing line between the rich and the poor getting greater and greater, particularly here in my, in my home city and in our, um, home state. And I, uh, it is becoming increasingly unaffordable to do just about anything in this country, and the idea that any of the folks that I-- When you get into a, a rideshare, and I'm sure you do all the time, and you talk to people, they've got al-almost always two jobs, if not three jobs. Um, nobody can afford to do anything today. And so the idea that we could have some kind of future where through borrowing money and finding a, a, a, a, a way to build equity in homes or, or even to get a car or to do any of the things that we need to live our daily lives is going to get harder and harder is, um, to me, is a terrifying prospect. But it's not one that I'm surprised by because it's a trajectory that we've been on for a long time now.
- KSKara Swisher
What way would you cover, say, a stock market route? 'Cause this is where it's going. I mean, he's saying flashing, you know, a lot, a lot of really smart people I follow a lot are quite worried about a stock market crash. Um, now, I know you can't ever predict this, and it happens suddenly. And even though it's directionally the way things are going and a little terrifying in that regard, um, this is, this is all, like, primed for something really disastrous. How would you cover that?
- JSJacob Soboroff
For so many people, whatever, whatever a bubble pop would look like, they're already living it in, in some respects. I think the vast majority of people are, are living, um, in a life that is emblematic of this, of this incredible income inequality that we have in the country.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- JSJacob Soboroff
And so-
- KSKara Swisher
Less for more.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Yeah
- KSKara Swisher
Less for more.
- JSJacob Soboroff
What's the-- What, what is the real trickle-down? Sure, if we have a bubble pop, it'll only get worse and worse for the people that have already been, um, already been experiencing it. But you know what I was just thinking about is the, the coming back from the fires here in Los Angeles. The amount of people who have been able to rebuild is a fraction of the people who lost their homes, the sixteen thousand structures. Uh, the insurance marketplace has been devastated. The costs of building materials, uh, has gone up. The idea that so many of them are underwater, um, that number continues to grow. And when you don't have some of the institutional levers that would help people come back, it, it'll be, it'll be exponentially more devastating. So, like, that's one on-the-ground story. But as I go across the country, you see people every day who live with the w-- If you wanna know what it would look like for the stock market to crash, all you gotta do is go out to small communities all around the country because they're already living it. You go places, and you go down, uh, main streets, and, and, and every other building or every building is shuttered. People are, um, looking for work, uh, you know, in ways that I've almost never seen in my 11 years doing this here. The way of life that a stock market bubble crash portends is the way of life so many people are already living, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, that's a very good point. That's an excellent point. I mean, it is-- It-- The cost of borrowing is the part that I think people don't realize, is that the debt gets bigger, and then it gets bigger because of the cost of borrowing. Again, Wall Street is a very, um, emotionless, like, "This is what it's gonna cost you," and whatever it happens to be. And when you see a lot of it, of course, the stock market itself is predicated on AI companies-
- JSJacob Soboroff
Mm-hmm
- KSKara Swisher
... uh, so that you have, you know, some of them will get public, some of them will do well, but the vast majority of them, as it did in every other internet tech thing I've covered, most of them will be washed out, um, and gone. And then we'll be, we'll again, we'll be subject to just a few powerful companies. And of course, they're shoveling money into, um, political ca-- you know, political stuff that's in their interest, not in the public interest in any way. And, you know, even when they have kind of, like, shitty AI efforts like Grok, um, he's putting hundreds of mil- uh, probably hundreds of millions of dollars into the next elections, Elon Musk is, uh, again, which sort of messes up the entire process, uh, of, of how we vote.
- JSJacob Soboroff
It's only gonna become more acute. Um, the wealthiest among us being able to put their finger on the scale of these elections in order to, to
- JSJacob Soboroff
To further exacerbate the divide. I think it's gonna be the defining issue of Gavin Newsom's presidential campaign if and when he decides to run.
- KSKara Swisher
Meaning?
- JSJacob Soboroff
It's gonna be one of his greatest challenges, that he has presided over this state, which is, as I said, the most unaffordable, in-unequal state in the union, where the rich have gotten richer, the poor have gotten poorer. And, um, while we can look at California as a leader on so many issues, uh, it's also a place where we can see what the future might look like if we don't, if we don't contend with it now.
- KSKara Swisher
It's gonna be tough for him. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Kalshi issuing its first-ever lifetime ban. [upbeat music] Support for the show comes from Quince. Is there something in your closet you can't wait to bring back into rotation every year? Maybe it's the jacket you throw on for just about anything, the boots that fit perfectly, or the scarf that instantly makes an outfit feel put together. Those are the reliable pieces you come back to season after season, and they're exactly what Quince does best. Quince makes premium essentials for any season using high-quality materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and washable silk. The designs are timeless, expertly crafted, and made to be worn again and again, and all of their items are priced 50% to 80% less than similar brands. Plus, they work directly with top factories, cutting out the middlemen. That way, you're only paying for exceptional quality and not brand markup. I just got Quince sheets of all things, and I was surprised. I love them. They're incredibly well-priced. They're so soft. They're well done. I didn't have to, like, wash them. They didn't feel scratchy in any way, and they were quite beautiful. I also have this, um, cardigan that I'm ready to wear for the fall when it stops being 90 degrees here in Washington, D.C. And I'm looking forward to buying other things from Quince for the fall. Find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com/pivot. Get free shipping with your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash pivot. [upbeat music]
- JSJacob Soboroff
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- KSKara Swisher
Jacob, we're back with more news. Kalshi has
- 45:45 – 53:24
Kalshi Bans George Santos
- KSKara Swisher
issued its first-ever lifetime ban to none other than former Congressman George Santos, of course.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Let's pour one out for George Santos.
- KSKara Swisher
What a surprise.
- JSJacob Soboroff
[laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
A regulator is, uh, a cheating cheater is cheating. Uh, regulators say Santos made more than, uh, $17,000 by-- He's such small ball, too, by the way-
- JSJacob Soboroff
[laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
... by betting on his own attendance of Trump's, uh, State of the Union while making misleading social media posts about his plans. Kalshi also hit San-Santos with a $70,000 penalty. The company also temporarily suspended three political candidates after they bet on the races. Of course, there's a lot of political, um, anger towards these betting markets, uh, in some states declaring them illegal. They're betting. They're, they, they're gambling, essentially. They need to be regulated like gambling, uh, um, companies. Um, uh, he'll probably be banned from Polymarket, but I, I'm not sure if he will. I don't know. I think they're less inclined that way. Kalshi's trying desperately to look legit and, you know, to sort of be the, the good cop kind of thing in this market, which is incredibly popular. How do you look at these markets? And obviously, a lot of companies, I don't know if MS Mount, are doing deals with these people.
- JSJacob Soboroff
I, I'm not-- I don't know. I'm not privy to it. I look at it, I, I, I look at it with disdain, and I think that r- uh, the, the, the reason I say that is that there's new reporting now that it could very well affect the outcome of the election in November because people will be betting on and then voting based on their bets, um, who could become, who could control Congress or who could become the next president of the United States. I think it's really dangerous. I, I think it's a very, very serious concern that we should all have, that ultimately this will affect the outcome of the elections, not because this is what people want for their lives, but because this is how they think they're gonna make a quick buck, um, on these online betting markets. And-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, they're very easy to cheat. They're easy to cheat in a lot of ways.
- JSJacob Soboroff
How about the story of, um, Donald Trump's teleprompter operator-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- JSJacob Soboroff
... betting on-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- JSJacob Soboroff
... on the words that-
- KSKara Swisher
He, I think he was hit with a fine, yeah.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Yeah, with the words that Donald Tr-- And I think they let him go from The White House. The words that Donald Trump would say in any given speech.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- JSJacob Soboroff
It is, um-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- JSJacob Soboroff
... I'm very-- I'm not a betting person. Um, you don't want to see me-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, me either
- JSJacob Soboroff
... in Las Vegas. It's, uh, it's pathetic. Uh, but, uh, it's a very scary proposition to me.
- KSKara Swisher
How, how would you do sentiment? I mean, you can't go to f- just farmers markets to get that, right? Like, i-it's, that's just sort of the, the caps- captures the moment right then-
- JSJacob Soboroff
Of course
- KSKara Swisher
... with people, and you can't... And polling has certainly been badly, you know, tarnished by bad results that-
- JSJacob Soboroff
Especially this year. Especially this year.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- JSJacob Soboroff
L-look at Michigan.
- KSKara Swisher
You know, Michigan, Wisconsin.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Polls aren't people. Betting markets are not people. And, and anecdotal interviews with-
- 53:24 – 57:20
Predictions
- KSKara Swisher
predictions. I'm gonna start. I want to give a shout-out to Pablo Torre, who was given enormous amounts of grief for reporting on Steve Ballmer, who's been kicked off his team for a year. He essentially can't participate.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
Paying enorm- thir- $30 million because essentially he f- tried to find a way to pay a player more, uh, uh, to get away from the salary constraints in basketball, and so get all these sweetheart deals. This was with, like, a sign company. I didn't even know... A- and he invested in, and essentially it was a way to pay someone under the table, you know, and, and, and these salary-- and s- get away from these salary caps. Pablo had reported a lot about this. Um, there was a, a story in ESPN, a really shitty story that said, "No, nothing was to see here." Turned out there was a lot to see here, and the, uh, the NBA just really smacked them hard. They're, th- I think they're not gonna-- I think the people, when they have a first-round draft pick going forward, um, they-- I think they're 10 year olds right now. [chuckles] They're gonna be able to pick from people who are 10 years old right now. Um-
- JSJacob Soboroff
My son has a chance.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, your son has a chance. Uh, so I would, I g- that, is that hitting LA in a big way? 'Cause it's, it's cheating.
- JSJacob Soboroff
I think so. I was just on my, on my family text thread. My dad, my brother-in-law, my brother, and I were all just texting about Pablo, I think either this morning or late last night, um, before I came in here. I was, uh, embarrassingly, for a very long time, a Clipper fan, um, because we-- my parents didn't want to pay for the expensive seats to go to the Lakers, so we would go to the Clipper games at the Sports Arena. I've been to hundreds, I don't know, of LA Clipper games.
- KSKara Swisher
Well, the, the Lakers are also in flux 'cause of the family fighting, so yeah.
- JSJacob Soboroff
In the Steve Ballmer era, though As it became-- I, I've been into it once. I did a story for "The Today Show" before it opened about the Olympics and how we were gonna have events there. But I haven't been to the, to the Clipper games in this sort of tech Steve Ballmer, Steve Ballmer era very much. It is, um, it's really disappointing. It's really disappointing that the team feels increasingly inaccessible when historically the team was the team of the working class in Los Angeles.
- KSKara Swisher
Now it's gonna be shitty, so it'll be free [chuckles] .
- JSJacob Soboroff
Yeah, it'll be back to free.
- KSKara Swisher
Cheap.
- JSJacob Soboroff
But yeah, he's-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- JSJacob Soboroff
... I think, I think he's banned from even showing up at games, um-
- KSKara Swisher
Yep, one year
- JSJacob Soboroff
... now for, for a year.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Great. Um, th- yeah, this, this whole thing was very, very disappointing and, and Pablo Torre, again, to sh- to echo you, Pablo Torre, unbelievable. That dude is incredible, and I'm proud to call him a, a colleague at MS too.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, you know what? They, um, uh, y- the sports reporters usually are in the can for the owners most of the time, and he sh- a lot of sports reporters were attacking him. Um, it was really something to see, and even Mark Cuban also said it, he didn't have a story here and scammers. It was, blamed it on the company that did this deal. Um, and Mark said, you know, "Congratulations, Pablo." I mean, like, they all kinda called it wrong. Uh, maybe they couldn't conceive that Ballmer would do this, but it looks like he's pushing... By the way, let me be fair. He's pushing back and calling it a witch hunt, which [chuckles] just to me, like, don't use that word, uh, which is, you know, he's tried to become a civic-minded looking person.
- JSJacob Soboroff
He ha- he does have a big charity here in LA, and I do know that he spent, put a lot of money-
- KSKara Swisher
Yep
- JSJacob Soboroff
... through his charity-
- KSKara Swisher
They just gave up
- JSJacob Soboroff
... towards a lot of causes, and they've-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- JSJacob Soboroff
... renovated a lot of the parks here and stuff.
- KSKara Swisher
That's not a good, that's not good, Steve.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Yeah, no.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, God. It's the old Steve. Anyway, prediction, go ahead.
- JSJacob Soboroff
We talked a little bit ar- ar- around it throughout our conversation, but I predict that we're gonna see just an extraordinary flood of people come out to participate in the midterm elections, um, more than we're anticipating. The level of enthusiasm that I've seen, the amount of people that I'm hearing from, just the vibes. Um, nobody's ever accused me of being a particularly, uh, vibey person, but when I'm out and I'm around people these days, you can sense that something is going on, and people feel uneasy, and people feel like they wanna take control of their lives back, and I'm very eager to see what, how that actually manifests. But the, the prediction is, um, not only are people very pissed off, but they're finding ways, um, I think hopefully at the ballot box, that they're gonna actually, that they're actually gonna manifest all of that.
- 57:20 – 1:02:00
Sen. McConnell is Still Missing
- KSKara Swisher
that I have to say if I had to pick anyone. W- w- will Mitch McConnell be among them? He hasn't been seen in public for 80 days, since nearly been a month since his team provided an update on his-
- JSJacob Soboroff
Why aren't we even talking about that anymore? I'm so glad that you brought that up. It's true. Where is he?
- KSKara Swisher
Where is he? Well, now Scott Jennings isn't sure he's coming back [chuckles] after.
- JSJacob Soboroff
Oh, gosh.
- KSKara Swisher
Uh, uh, honestly, Scott, and speaking of soiling yourself over an issue, um, uh, it's really astonishing. It's an astonishing thing that he's allowed to do this, uh, you know? That, uh, I- I'm sorry if he's sick, but he should quit then if he's sick. That's, you know... I'm sorry if anyone is incapacitated like that, uh, even people I don't particularly like, but it's gross. Um, I will g- a- another interesting, I have a prediction-
- JSJacob Soboroff
Please
- KSKara Swisher
... a short one about the, speaking of Los Angeles, the Paramount merger. Uh, it w- it was sort of dueling handsome men, uh, stars. Uh, George Clooney, when asked about the Paramount merger, said, "I don't know how this goes through. There are so many issues involved," adding, "I always worry whenever big companies are consolidating because it usually means a lot of people lose their jobs." He also defended Mark Ruffalo against charges of antisemitism that Paramount leveled against him, which I think they overstepped in that regard. Um, and, and then they, Tom Cruise came out for it, saying it'll help people, when of course he's tie- he's mobbed up with them in a really significant way. They pay for all his movies, including the Days of Thunder, which I'm looking forward to. I like Tom Cruise's movies. But yeah, I wouldn't, I would say he has more at stake here from a financial interest to say, to back them. Um, but it's really interesting that you have this kind of shift happening. I, I, I can't say, unless there's a settlement, and I don't know why Rob Bonta would settle at this point-
- JSJacob Soboroff
Right
- KSKara Swisher
... uh, because he just-
- JSJacob Soboroff
He's accusing them of being liars and walked away from a, a meeting last week.
- KSKara Swisher
He did, and, but, you know, he, like tomorrow they could settle in seconds. Um, but he, he has the upper hand now with this meta settlement, which makes him look good, and he lo- and he's showing that people can settle. He's willing to settle in the right terms. So it'll be interesting to see if they will present anything that's acceptable now to, um, these groups. They're trying to peel off attorney generals. I don't think they're peeling anytime soon. If they get one, big deal. Um, but they shouldn't. They're, they have the upper hand here, and so it'll be interesting to see if Clooney or Cruise will prevail here. I suspect, uh, Clooney might at this point. Um, he's a pretty powerful figure in Hollywood still.
- JSJacob Soboroff
It'd be, uh, uh, certainly everybody out here is watching that, um, e- extremely closely, and in, in our line of work too, um, you know, I think the biggest topic of conversation is the CBS-CNN potential merger, and-
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, I know. I've, it's, I live it every day
- JSJacob Soboroff
... and, and exactly, and what that portends. I've been following, um, uh, your journey, uh, in that regard.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, my journey.
- JSJacob Soboroff
But Bonta told me when he, when he was on my show, he's been on my show a bunch of times, um-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- JSJacob Soboroff
... it was one of the things that was front of mind for him, and so-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- JSJacob Soboroff
... uh, um-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, but, but again, he didn't put it in the case-
- JSJacob Soboroff
No
- KSKara Swisher
... which is interesting.
- JSJacob Soboroff
No.
- KSKara Swisher
I think a lot of people are thinking about it. [chuckles] See, I can tell you they are. I just am articulating the mood inside, let me say. I, I don't think I'm way off. Some people, you know, see opportunity, as always. People climbing up greasy poles love to see if they can get up higher. Um, but I think most people are pretty, like, I don't think so, especially after this recent terrible CBS story about, uh, Al-Sae'd, uh, which was entirely, uh, fictional. I don't know what else to say. That's what it was. So we'll see where it goes, but George Clooney is on the job, and I think he will top Tom Cruise in this, in this regard. And even though I'm very excited about the new Day of, Days of Thunder with Anne Hathaway-
- JSJacob Soboroff
[chuckles]
- KSKara Swisher
... and I always love me a Top Gun, and I love me a Mission Impossible, but Tom, come on. I, you are actually supportive of workers. I'm surprised that you, you know, that you're pro-power in this situation. Anyway, we wanna hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind, and go to NYMag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show, or call 855-51-PIVOT. Okay, that is the show, our last show of Scott-free August, and couldn't have had a nicer guy-
- JSJacob Soboroff
Thank you
- KSKara Swisher
... with more magnificent hair-
- JSJacob Soboroff
[chuckles]
Episode duration: 1:02:00
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Transcript of episode D6fkabsQPOo
