Why is Peter Thiel Warning About the Antichrist? | Pivot

Scott Galloway 0:00 ... why should we be worried about the most powerful people in the world that have an unbelievable command of godlike technology, who basically own the vice president, who are becoming increasingly theocratic? I mean-

Kara Swisher 0:13 I know. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 0:14 ... no, no worries there.

Kara Swisher 0:16 No worries. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 0:16 No worries there. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 0:21 (instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway 0:29 And I'm Scott Galloway.

Kara Swisher 0:30 Guess where I am?

Scott Galloway 0:32 I like this game. Where are you?

Kara Swisher 0:34 Las Vegas, your favorite place. Vegas, baby.

Scott Galloway 0:36 What are you doing in Vegas?

Kara Swisher 0:37 Oh, I'm giving a speech at a place you gave a speech at. I can't remember the... Stansberry? Anyway, uh, I'm here to talk about AI, of course, because that's the topic du jour of many of these events and stuff like that. So.

Scott Galloway 0:51 Uh, nice. And-

Kara Swisher 0:53 I didn't do-

Scott Galloway 0:53 ... Vegas.

Kara Swisher 0:53 ... anything in Vegas last night. I went to sleep and I watched The Diplomat before that. That's what I did. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 0:58 Oh, really?

Kara Swisher 0:59 It was an entire evening, yes. (laughs) Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:01 Oh, wow. That's... uh, it does it... how does it feel?

Kara Swisher 1:04 Mm-hmm. To what?

Scott Galloway 1:06 Well, I mean, how does the mood... people say Vegas is dying because people now have Vegas in their pocket with their phones and people-

Kara Swisher 1:12 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:12 ... have less money.

Kara Swisher 1:13 You know, it was full. You know, I was... I'm at, um... I, I ate at the, at the, um... it's not the Wynn, it's... I guess it's the Wynn. The one with all the trees that hang down. You know ho-... Las Vegas better than I do. But I'm staying, uh, at, at the Encore, that whole facility. And, um, it's, it's... was packed. I was surprised. It was very jolly. Um, although it wasn't... I wouldn't say the casino was packed, that's for sure. Um, but it was... it wasn't, like, unfull, I guess. I don't know. Is this the time of year for it to be full?

Scott Galloway 1:45 Um, I think Vegas is pretty much a year-round place.

Kara Swisher 1:48 Right, right.

Scott Galloway 1:49 And, um, conventions and everything.

Kara Swisher 1:50 Right.

Scott Galloway 1:52 And, um, I used to go there-

Kara Swisher 1:54 I've only been here... Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Scott Galloway 1:55 What?

Kara Swisher 1:55 I've s-... I've only been here at, like, CES, so it's always full. It's not like that, like, by any means like that whatsoever. So.

Scott Galloway 2:02 I used to go there. My friendly lodess and I would get-

Kara Swisher 2:06 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 2:06 ... ridiculously fucking high and decide at 2:00 AM that it was a good idea to go to Vegas.

Kara Swisher 2:11 Oh.

Scott Galloway 2:11 And we'd jump in his Volkswagen Jetta-

Kara Swisher 2:14 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 2:14 ... and head for five hours to-

Kara Swisher 2:17 Across the desert.

Scott Galloway 2:18 ... um, to Vegas, across the desert.

Kara Swisher 2:20 Long.

Scott Galloway 2:20 And we'd stay at the, the Golden Nugget-

Kara Swisher 2:22 Oh.

Scott Galloway 2:22 ... where they... because they had this buffet for $9.99 you could-

Kara Swisher 2:25 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 2:25 ... basically eat for a good, you know, enough for a day or two.

Kara Swisher 2:29 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 2:29 And we would always put $5 in the glove box so we had enough gas to get home, because we knew we'd lose all our money.

Kara Swisher 2:36 Oh. And did you?

Scott Galloway 2:37 Oh, yeah. That's part of the fun.

Kara Swisher 2:39 Anyway, I'm in Vegas. I'm leaving. I'm going to Korea this week, so.

Scott Galloway 2:42 Korea?

Kara Swisher 2:43 I'm going to Korea. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 2:45 Jesus, you should have stopped us. Why are you going to Korea?

Kara Swisher 2:47 Uh, it's for the Secret show. For the Secret show.

Scott Galloway 2:50 For Sec-... Oh, God.

Kara Swisher 2:50 It's the last episode. They wanted me to do it.

Scott Galloway 2:52 Oh, that's... Korea is where-

Kara Swisher 2:54 Full of the watch, yeah?

Scott Galloway 2:55 I know, I know a bunch of women who take trips to Korea to look... not look Korean, but to look younger. I guess Korea, they're obsessed with beauty and they're very good at it.

Kara Swisher 3:03 Yeah. Yeah, they are. So we're going to do a little bit... Uh, there's al-... there, they also have one of the most aging populations in the coun-... the, the, the country that's doing the most about it. Like, I'm going to be in an exto, ectoskeleton or whatever. Um, but they, they're planning a lot for their aging population in a really interesting way, so.

Scott Galloway 3:21 So they're bringing you over to inspire young people to start having sex? I-

Kara Swisher 3:25 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 3:25 ... I, I missed the gap there. I missed the connection.

Kara Swisher 3:27 Um, anyway, I'm going to put some shrimp semen s-... uh, lotion on my face. That's what I'm doing, and I'm gonna bring some back for you. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 3:34 You know, there's, there's a component of that that is appealing-

Kara Swisher 3:37 Shrimp semen. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 3:37 ... uh, but it's not-

Kara Swisher 3:39 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 3:40 Yeah. I'm not even going to go there.

Kara Swisher 3:41 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 3:41 I feel like you're giving me so many softballs here-

Kara Swisher 3:44 I'm giving them to you.

Scott Galloway 3:45 ... and I'm not...

Kara Swisher 3:45 I'm throwing them up and you're not taking-

Scott Galloway 3:46 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 3:46 ... shrimp semen?

Scott Galloway 3:47 No. That... you know what?

Kara Swisher 3:47 You could do nothing with shrimp semen?

Scott Galloway 3:49 That is not the facial-

Kara Swisher 3:50 There is nothing?

Scott Galloway 3:51 ... I, I imagine nor want to see.

Kara Swisher 3:53 All right.

Scott Galloway 3:54 Um...

Kara Swisher 3:54 Okay. Scallop semen. I don't know.

Scott Galloway 3:56 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 3:56 They're gonna have, like, all ki-... they... there's always the word "semen" in their, in their, uh, in their facials or something.

Scott Galloway 4:01 Yeah. My swimmers... well, supposedly only one in 20... is it one in 20 or one in 200? Some scary low number of Koreans is gonna have a grandkid because of... basically, as women, as women get more economically viable and, quite frankly, get smarter and more educated, they decide, "This whole kid thing kind of sucks for me."

Kara Swisher 4:19 Oh.

Scott Galloway 4:20 And they stop having children.

Kara Swisher 4:21 Hmm.

Scott Galloway 4:22 And essentially, that book in the '70s that said that the world was gonna-

Kara Swisher 4:26 Overpopulation.

Scott Galloway 4:26 ... collapse on itself and that there was gonna be a, a population bomb. Well, the bomb exploded, except it didn't explode, it imploded.

Kara Swisher 4:33 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 4:33 And we're having trouble figuring out how Western nations and democracies-

Kara Swisher 4:37 It's true.

Scott Galloway 4:37 ... maintain population growth and the percentage of young people to old people is just shrinking every year.

Kara Swisher 4:42 Right.

Scott Galloway 4:42 And o-

Kara Swisher 4:42 Which is why, hence, Kara's going to Korea to talk about it.

Scott Galloway 4:45 Yeah. And old people have this habit of voting themselves more money. And before you know it, young people are 24% less wealthy than they were 40 years ago, as they are in the US, and old people are 72%-

Kara Swisher 4:55 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 4:55 ... wealthier. And our society is, is kind of turning upside down and young people have no hope.

Kara Swisher 5:02 Okay, Elon. Got it. No, I'm kidding. (laughs) I'm kidding. No. I'm gonna talk about this topic. This is the topic. This is the topic. Anyway, I... last time I was there, I was with Walt when we were sca-... deciding where to have our Asia conference. Um, and, uh, Korea... we considered Seoul for a minute. I really do like Seoul, though. I don't know if... how many times you've been there, but I really like it a lot. It's a cool city. Okay.

Scott Galloway 5:23 Yeah. I've... I haven't been there in... I haven't been there since business school. I'm kind of curious to go back and check it out.

Kara Swisher 5:28 Yeah. I'm gonna get on a bullet train and... you know, things like that. It should be fun.

Scott Galloway 5:31 Before or after you get a facial?

Kara Swisher 5:33 Um, all of it.

Scott Galloway 5:34 Oh, God.

Kara Swisher 5:35 All of it's g-... (laughs)

Scott Galloway 5:36 This is the w-

Kara Swisher 5:36 I am gonna do a...

Scott Galloway 5:37 This is literally like-

Kara Swisher 5:38 ... Korea.

Scott Galloway 5:38 This is like a, a, a 12-step method to get me to stop watching YouPorn-

Kara Swisher 5:43 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 5:44 ... is I type in "facial" and I see you in Korea.

Kara Swisher 5:46 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 5:47 It's literally... okay, that's it. No more porn. I'm done.... I'm cured.

Kara Swisher 5:51 Anyway-

Scott Galloway 5:51 I'm cured.

Kara Swisher 5:52 It's the, it's the last one.

Scott Galloway 5:52 I'm one of those people that doesn't drink and doesn't watch porn.

Kara Swisher 5:54 This is the endless taping of TV. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today, including Anthropic and David Sacks fighting over AI regulation, and colleges pushing back against Trump, which is really interesting. I can't wait to hear your take.

Kara Swisher 6:06 But first, almost seven million people gathered to take part in a No Kings protest this weekend around the country. Over s- 2,700 events took place in 50 states. The protests were peaceful, with no arrests, no arrests being made in cities like D.C. and New York, which drew, obviously, the biggest crowds. Some s-

Narrator 6:22 (instrumental music)

Kara Swisher 6:23 ... highlights. "Real clowns would, uh, run things better." "I like taters, not dictators." "Tylenol is safer than tyranny." "You sucked in Home Alone 2." "Mike Johnson blocked me on Grindr." And of course, "Groper Cleveland." Um, GOP lawmakers are calling the movement a hate America rally. Still? I think they won't stop. And claiming it's a political cover for a shutdown. It looked pretty jolly to me. Um, of course, as usual, President Trump tried to suck up the oxygen in the room, and... by posting an AI-generated video depicting him dropping feces, well, it was just a poop, he... a big, giant diarrhea, from a fighter jet onto protestors. Uh, a lot of the m- uh, a lot of the mainstream media wouldn't say that that's what it was. I mean, I think it was just a distraction, 'cause he didn't get any attention. Uh, turnout was impressive. I don't know if it does much, but it was really quite amazing. It was like, that's a lot of people. Um, and again, it was peaceful and seemed lovely, and, uh, a good, uh, organizing thing, I suspect. Um, any thoughts?

Scott Galloway 7:24 (smacks lips) I think it's really important. I think the, the... You know, I always g- go back to World War II, and that is, what was so disappointing about World War II initially was that so many people seemed to enable it or look the other way. And then the pushback, uh, by Americans... Now obviously, Europe had an existential threat that this guy was invading them. (laughs) But America did have real controversy over whether to reenter Europe for the second time after they'd paid such a terrible cost in the first World War, and a lot of people didn't, didn't really understand why that was our war and we were about to do it again. And ultimately, their decision to move into the war was, uh, you know, kind of a vision of FDR that, like, "This, this will hit our shores eventually." And they weren't as much pushing back on antisemitism. Really, they weren't pushing back on antisemitism. They were pushing back on fascism. And this is... In my view, America has become very fat and happy and lazy, and has taken its prosperity, its alliances, and its freedoms for granted because the majority of us have been raised in an era where those things continue to get better. And so the natural assumption is, "It couldn't happen here, and it'll, it'll keep getting better." And I think for the first time, Americans are thinking, or first time in a while, are thinking, "Okay, maybe that isn't a guaranteed right." And the, the best, the best summary of it, to encapsulate, I think... well, at least how I feel about it, is, uh, the following. (clears throat) "The No Kings protest isn't about hating America, but about loving it enough to defend it. For generations, Americans have stood up when power grew too big, when truth got twisted, or when leaders forgot they served the people. This is one of those moments that defines who we are as Americans. We will stand together peacefully, not to divide the country, but to remind it who we are." And that's from this great philosopher, Eric Theodore Cartman from South Park.

Kara Swisher 9:14 Mm-hmm. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 9:16 So... But he said... Uh, I thought it just kind of perfectly encapsated the moment.

Kara Swisher 9:20 Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 9:20 So to be clear, I'm not sure if that was AI. Uh, I did some research and some people have attributed that quote to Heather Shreve Buehler. But regardless, it's a wonderful, it's a wonderful quote.

Kara Swisher 9:31 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 9:31 And this is... This stuff is important, and people say, "Well, uh, I agree that oca- you know, these protests are better when there's a specific action required."

Kara Swisher 9:40 Sure.

Scott Galloway 9:40 But I think that when you saw those videos yesterday-

Kara Swisher 9:43 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 9:43 ... in your feed on social, you realize Americans are upset. Americans are prone to action. Americans will take the time to give up their Saturday and put together a sign. Uh, the Americans on this side, it always comes across as a little hippie dippy and a little bit like Mother Jones and Cynthia Nixon-

Kara Swisher 10:01 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 10:02 ... and, uh, with kombucha-

Kara Swisher 10:03 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 10:03 ... you know, which I don't... You know, they, they come across-

Kara Swisher 10:05 I think it did, but... I don't think this one did, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 10:07 No, I... This one was less of that.

Kara Swisher 10:08 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 10:08 It felt just very positive, very solid. There were some videos that really bothered me. The video flying around the internet that really upset me was of that idiot who gets tripped and hurts his face, and a lot of-

Kara Swisher 10:20 What is it?

Scott Galloway 10:20 ... progressives are celebrating it and calling it karma. I don't think that's good for us-

Kara Swisher 10:24 Oh.

Scott Galloway 10:24 ... or the nation.

Kara Swisher 10:25 No.

Scott Galloway 10:26 Uh...

Kara Swisher 10:26 I saw a lot of people in inflatable animal costumes, which-

Scott Galloway 10:29 That's hilarious.

Kara Swisher 10:29 ... I love the s-

Scott Galloway 10:29 But that's been going on all over the cities. That's hilarious.

Kara Swisher 10:31 I like those memes. You know, uh, uh, lots of my friends who went, they said it started... I didn't... I had the kids yesterday. Um, was, um, (smacks lips) the... or the, the day, the day of the march. Um, it was really interesting because it, it... S- several people said it started off kind of lefty, but then as the day grew, it was sort of all kinds of people, and much more sort of people f- like moms and daughters and fathers and sons and stuff like that. And they said it seemed, um, it was... seemed like very, like, diff- lots of different people, they were struck by. They, they go to, you know, more than a, one or two protests every now and then, or

Narrator 11:08 (instrumental music)

Scott Galloway 11:08 ... re- marches. And so I thought, I thought the photos were amazing. And again-

Kara Swisher 11:13 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 11:13 ... they did a lot of really good stuff on social around the contrast between Trump's military parade, if you recall that kind of loser of a parade, um, and that. And it seemed n- h- it didn't seem... Festive is the wrong word. It seemed... It didn't seem- Positive.

Kara Swisher 11:27 Po- it seemed positive. Yes, that's right.

Scott Galloway 11:29 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 11:30 Yeah. And I thought it was like... It, it's great for col- I bet they collect lots of names. You know, it sort of gets people energized for the fight. And then, of course, Trump had to do his stupid thing. And I think, uh, uh, honestly, (sighs) just so weird. It was so weird to do that, and thinking it's funny when you're, uh, you know, a 79-year-old man? Um, and I'm sure... I s- part of me feels like the, the fact that he did a pooping thing, right? An elderly man to do a poop thing, either it's sort of self-... harming himself by posting it, or else whoever's working for him, is doing some brutal trolling of him. I just thought it was such a weird selection.

Scott Galloway 12:07 It's just more of the same. It's just a total lack of respect for Americans-

Kara Swisher 12:10 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 12:10 ... if they don't agree with you, and, I don't know, trying to... And again, it's effective because we're talking about it and, and it enters the news cycle.

Kara Swisher 12:18 Well, actually, it enters the news cycle, but, like, all his little minions did one too, of him not leaving office or him as a king. And I keep thinking, these people are, like, you know, 60, 52, 79. Like, this is, like, you act like a, like a badly behaved seventh grader who nobody likes. I don't-

Scott Galloway 12:35 The worst, there's people like that.

Kara Swisher 12:36 It's just, I guess, I don't know if people like the poop thing. I, I don't think anybody li-... I mean, maybe if you're 12, I guess. But, well, I, I doubt they did. Um, uh, anyway, it was, it was, uh, very impressive and, and the media, uh, should have covered it more, because I thought it was really lovely.

Kara Swisher 12:50 Um, now, as of this recording, six colleges have rebuffed the Trump administration's so-called Compact for Academic Excellence in Higher Education ahead of the White House deadline. The agreement offers special access to federal funding in exchange for schools agreeing to a set of demands, including race and sex as factors, uh, eliminating race and sex as factors in admissions and capping international enrollment. MIT, Brown, Pe- Penn, USC, UVA, and Dartmouth have all said no, arguing the deal would undermine free speech and academic independence. The White House initially approached nine universities and is now reaching out to more schools after a wave of rejections. Uh, really interesting, I think, um, uh, really interesting that they're, they're doing this. I don't know as much about it. What i-... How did you feel about this? As, as, as someone who's... You like some of it, but I think overall, the government is getting its dirty mitts in things that is none of their business.

Scott Galloway 13:40 Yeah, some of it, I mean, some of it's sorta common. It's, it's not even what's in there. It's, it's, that's not important. What's important is whether or not the federal government should be threatening to withdraw funds unless they sign up to a series of standards, some of which include what sort of distills down to thought control or who you hire. And I think the majority of it could be, or a lot of it could be perceived... Freeze tuition, although that's basically a price control, that's socialism. But who you hire and who you let in, that's sort of... I don't know. I, I, I have some issues with that. Uh, reducing the number of international students. I mean, just to riff on that for a moment, we keep talking about bringing American jobs back, and there is, there are few. For every 1% decrease in international enrollment, we lose a billion dollars. And that is, imagine (clears throat) ... Just to highlight how stupid, fucking stupid these tariffs are, international trade widely is asymmetrically beneficial towards us. We sell a NVIDIA GPU hopper at $100,000. It's $55,000 of operating profit times a PE of 40. We get $2 trillion in market value. Mercedes sells a $100,000 Mercedes at 10% operating margin trading at a multiple of eight, they get $80,000 in shareholder value. And another great example of how asymmetric and beneficial to us our international trade is, there will be a small number of students, although it will triple or quintuple this year, of American kids who decide to go to Instituto Empresa in Madrid. And they will spend money, they will spend their American dollars and their parents' American dollars in Spain, which will grow the Spanish economy. We get, we, we get hundreds of thousands if not millions of kids and families who come here, and at NYU, they're spending about $280,000 in tuition over four years, they're renting three, five, $7,000 apartments, they're buying Chipotle every goddamn day. And then th- there's the soft power of they like Americans and they stay in contact with them when they go back to run the economic ministry of El Salvador or wherever. It's just, the, i- i- it is so much high-margin revenue for us, and to discourage foreign students by putting a cap on the number that can come here, they're looking at it the wrong way. And that is, the University of North Carolina says, "Okay, we're gonna give you $650 million, but you have to let in 82%." Now, what they should do is just expand the top line number with their endowment and let in more kids. But anyways, I don't mind that. What they need to do is the following, in my view, and I had dinner on Thursday night with the chancellor of UCLA, Julio Frenk, uh, who's a really impressive guy, and I won't speak to the specifics of the conversation. My view is, the first thing they need to do is coordinate, and that is, they need to hold their, hold their tongues and elect, uh, a couple presidents of these universities to represent them all, and then st- stand around the fire, hold hands and say, "Whatever this group decides, we are going along with," because how they lose is to be divided. One-

Kara Swisher 16:41 To be pulled off one by one, yeah.

Scott Galloway 16:43 That's exactly right. UCLA says, "We'll take the money," and SC says no. That's an authoritarian's playbook. You go along with me, I'll make you super rich. You don't go along with me, I'll illegally punish you.

Kara Swisher 16:54 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 16:54 The first thing is coordination. The second thing is litigation, because a lot of this is just wrong.

Kara Swisher 17:00 Also.

Scott Galloway 17:00 A lot of this is, uh, so y- y- they're, they're trying to interpret visa rules arbitrarily, and there's a precedent, there's a precedence against that, a legal decision, the 2022 DACA rescission. They, there's constitutional protections here, the First Amendment against compelled speech or ideological litmus tests for faculty or curricula, that's a violation of the First Amendment. The Tenth Amendment spending clause, if federal funds are conditioned on political compliance, they could file in sympathetic jurisdictions. They also need to weaponize, and they haven't done this, their alumni to make financial commitments such that they have the financial wherewithal, at least in the short term-

Kara Swisher 17:36 Harvard is up, right? Harvard is actually up in donations recently.

Scott Galloway 17:38 Well, also, the, the schools that have immediately pushed back, Kara, it's no accident. They're the ones with the largest per capita or per student endowments, 'cause they can afford to push back. And then state level counterweights, they could have legislative sh- shields, attorney general lawsuits, parallel funding, in sum, they need to use the courts, coordination, uh, inspiration around fundraising-

Kara Swisher 17:58 Choice.

Scott Galloway 17:58 ... and litigation to delay this bullshit, but they all need to speak with one-

Kara Swisher 18:02 One voice.

Scott Galloway 18:03 ... with one voice. Otherwise, they're gonna-

Kara Swisher 18:04 It seems like. It seems like. I don't know who the others, the nine, are, but that's, well, that's one, two, three, four, five, five of them. All of them should be part of this.

Scott Galloway 18:11 They should be speaking with one voice.

Kara Swisher 18:13 It's sort of like the, the Pentagon thing last week. Just stop it. Like, enough.

Scott Galloway 18:16 And also-... also, I, I think they should go gangster. We have, uh... Universities are a corrupt cartel. They have this enforcer of the corruption, which is the accreditation. There's a board made up of the incumbents that accredits universities. And you need accreditation, otherwise you don't qualify for federal student, uh, loans. And i- i- i- it's just insane. They don't allow new universities. They don't accredit new ones. So what do you know? Uh, universities have not grown. There are not... They are not adding additional universities. Students are actually... There's a bit of a birth dearth. You know, there's a chill over international students. They think international, applications from international students are go to, are gonna go down 20% to 40%.

Kara Swisher 18:56 Yeah, I've seen the sales.

Scott Galloway 18:57 And for every student that comes here to a private university, that's literally probably like... Let's think about it. That's probably $400,000 or $500,000. Say the average family spends $15,000 when they come to America. It's like 20 or 30 families not coming here to go to Disneyland and Universal Studios and see the Grand Canyon.

Kara Swisher 19:14 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 19:14 It's just really fucking stupid.

Kara Swisher 19:15 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 19:16 It's a huge... And in addition, our PhD students, and I've gone on about this forever, we attract the best and brightest to make our weapons, our chemotherapy, our pharmaceuticals, our internet applications which spill over into huge job growth. So this is just... I mean, in addition to the economic-

Kara Swisher 19:32 Well-

Scott Galloway 19:32 ... end of it.

Kara Swisher 19:33 Okay, go ahead. I'm gonna stop you in a second, but go ahead. Go ahead.

Scott Galloway 19:35 Well, uh, this is the bottom line. The accreditation institution should be an enforcer here and say, "We're speaking with one voice, bitch."

Kara Swisher 19:43 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 19:43 "And if you decide to go make a side deal with your buddies in the administration, yeah, maybe you're even legally compliant, but we're gonna make it hard for you (laughs) to get accredited next year."

Kara Swisher 19:51 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 19:51 Universities need to get, uh, go a little bit gangster here and speak with one voice.

Kara Swisher 19:56 So-

Scott Galloway 19:56 Otherwise, they will be picked off-

Kara Swisher 19:57 ... very briefly-

Scott Galloway 19:58 ... one at a time.

Kara Swisher 19:58 ... will they do that?

Scott Galloway 19:59 No, because they're all, they're all administrators and, uh, th- they lack the type of leadership. Oh, okay. I, I don't...

Kara Swisher 20:09 Well, five of them have.

Scott Galloway 20:09 A leader needs to emerge.

Kara Swisher 20:11 Five of them have. Right.

Scott Galloway 20:11 A leader needs to emerge.

Kara Swisher 20:13 Okay.

Scott Galloway 20:13 Like, there's some very innovative people that... I don't know who the new president of UVA is. I really think the president of Harvard has done a decent job.

Kara Swisher 20:22 Mm-hmm. MIT.

Scott Galloway 20:22 There needs to be, there needs to be a leader who steps up and says... calls all of them and says, "We either fall together or stand together."

Kara Swisher 20:31 Right.

Scott Galloway 20:31 And you may have your own views on which parts of this you like or don't like-

Kara Swisher 20:34 Take it over all.

Scott Galloway 20:34 ... and there's a very solid argument for, for saying, "I represent, I represent USC, so I'm going to have a dialogue." And this is what happens.

Kara Swisher 20:43 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 20:43 The first university that cracks and agrees-

Kara Swisher 20:46 Right.

Scott Galloway 20:47 ... will get more, won't have to give up that much, and then they're gonna come back for even more to number two.

Kara Swisher 20:52 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 20:53 So they absolutely need to stand together.

Kara Swisher 20:55 Right, right, right. I made a mistake. It's six schools out of nine, but I agree. It is, it's kind of ridiculous. And they keep winning legally, so it seems like... You know, I, I think the proclivity of a lot of these places, and then we're gonna move on, is let's just talk. Like, like, let's not fight, let's talk.

Scott Galloway 21:10 Yeah, let's dialogue.

Kara Swisher 21:10 Let's dialogue.

Scott Galloway 21:11 That's what we do.

Kara Swisher 21:12 It's, it's typical.

Scott Galloway 21:13 That's what we do. Right.

Kara Swisher 21:13 And so that's where they're getting... And I thought, again, with the, with the reporters at the Pentagon did, I don't know what the result of that... were just not gonna, were not gonna agree, and then the people that agree are a motley crew of shitty whatever, not even journalists at the Pentagon, and they look ridiculous. And then, I think in this ca- in this case, if they stand together, the... as you... the Trump people typically fold. That's always see- seems to be their thing, is they push and push and then, and then they... It's taco... It's essentially taco Tuesdays. Um, uh, okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, this is an interesting story, Anthropic becomes a White House target. (swoosh) Support for the show comes from Saks Fifth Avenue. Saks Fifth Avenue makes it easy to holiday your way. Whether it's finding the right gift or the right outfit, Saks is where you can find everything from a stunning David Yurman bracelet for her or a sleek pair of Ferragamo loafers to wear to a fancy holiday dinner. And if you don't know where to start, saks.com has customized your personal style so you can save time shopping and spend more time just enjoying the holidays. Make shopping fun and easy this season and find gifts and inspiration to suit your holiday style at Saks Fifth Avenue.

Kara Swisher 22:17 (swoosh) Scott, we're back. The latest feud over AI regulation is between Anthropic and the White House, specifically Trump's AI czar, David Sacks. Sacks is accusing Anthropic co-founder Jack Clark of running a, quote, "sophisticated regulatory capture strategy based on fear-mongering." Oh, did you look up all those words, David? This was in response to an essay Clark wrote about balancing optimism and caution around AI. Sacks is also claiming Anthropics' position itself as a foe of the Trump administration. And while, uh, CEO Dario, uh, Dario Amodi, who backed Kamala Harris, isn't bending the knee like other tech CEOs, Anthropic still has a number of government contracts and partnerships. Um, really weird, a weird attack, I thought, and, and specifically calling on someone who's supposed to be this AI czar and supposed to be, uh, pushing all the companies and everything. And of course, those that have showed up for Trump and given him money and done all these things get all the juicy bits. It's sort of an insider game here with Sacks at the center of it, and I'm sure he's quite effective at getting what he wants around cyber and, uh, I mean, uh, crypto and, and this. But to attack one company for just making normal... Uh, they wanna build a brand around safety to do that. It seems bizarre to me. I guess he just... uh, he wants everybody to, to go along with the, uh, with the casino that's big in Las Vegas and the, the, the House is always in charge. But I don't know. Any thoughts on this?

Scott Galloway 23:42 You said something that, that's always struck me, that every accusation is-

Kara Swisher 23:46 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 23:46 ... an admission. Is that what you said? Every ac-

Kara Swisher 23:48 Confession, yeah.

Scott Galloway 23:48 ... is a confession. Uh, he wrote, "Anthropic is running a sophisticated regulatory capture strategy based on fear-mongering." Uh, no. We have never seen regulatory capture (laughs) like big tech, uh, showing up to the White House. And the tariffs are as effectively a transfer from the 490 that have to figure out the sclerotic strategy to the 10, the magnificent 10, that really aren't affected by, um, AI. I'm sorry. They really aren't affected by tariffs. And for him to say that because Anthropic has said, "I'm not gonna bend a knee on everything here," is sort of... And also, let's be clear, he didn't write this. The White House wrote this.... the White House, it, the, he's not gonna do anything without the White House's approval. And so, for some reason, Anthropic has gotten cross-eyed with the Trump administration, and he's sort of, he's sort of threatening him and threatening them. In addition, this just, at a very baseline level we forget, the administration is not supposed to speak to punish or reward individual companies.

Kara Swisher 24:50 Correct. That was what was so strange about it.

Scott Galloway 24:52 They're supposed to pass laws that affect everybody or don't affect everybody. Or-

Kara Swisher 24:57 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 24:57 ... they take all AI companies on a tour of Asia with the Secretary of Commerce-

Kara Swisher 25:02 Right. Right.

Scott Galloway 25:02 ... to try and build business. Or they say, "Here's an idea. Every AI company cannot have any technology that lets people under the age of 18 engage in synthetic relationships." You don't decide, "Okay. I don't have an investment. Me and my venture firm and my buddies don't have an investment in Anthropic, so I'm gonna go after them individually." This is... And if you look at, at a, at a more broader level, if you look at jobs, what's happening with jobs, who's getting really hurt are small businesses. And small and medium-sized businesses are responsible for two thirds of job growth in America. Why? 'Cause small and medium-sized businesses have no seat at the table. They don't get to go to the White House and cut sweetheart deals and get big deals-

Kara Swisher 25:47 That's what, yeah-

Scott Galloway 25:47 ... and big contracts.

Kara Swisher 25:48 ... I was thinking that's the, like, that's the whole thing. Like, I was thinking about all these businesses that don't get to go to the Mar-a-Lago patio, as I said, and one of the things around this essay is read the essay that Jack wrote, Jack Clark wrote. Um, it is essentially like, "I'm really excited about, uh, AI, but there are some things we should worry about." Like, literally, he's not a foe of the Trump-

Scott Galloway 26:08 No, he's not.

Kara Swisher 26:08 ... administration. The, he's just making a normal thing that everyone... And by the way, there is a growing worry about all this, like, uh, among normal people, which Sachs never, never sets his foot near. And I think if you're, if you're a parent, if you're, if you're a business, everybody is... And, and, and the stock market feels very frothy based on the spen- Everyone understands what's happening here from a stock market point of view. And all he was saying was, "We should h- be cautious." Like, just 'cause he wants to, like, have a little bit of regulation and put, put it in the hands of our elected officials, which would be Congress, to be passing some of this stuff. I think it's just... I, I was sort of really struck by the, how, how corrupt the situation has become, um, and of course it puts... Anthropic's gonna have to do government contracts. It's gonna have to do, you know, just like, this is where all the big money is for these things to grow into actual businesses. And so it's really, uh, the picking and choosing, if you- again, socialism. And then the weirdest thing this week was,

Kara Swisher 27:09 uh, w- this, these stories of Peter Thiel's, uh, ha- has some thoughts on A- AI regulation. He's warning it could summon the Antichrist if we stop it.

Scott Galloway 27:17 Yeah, I saw that.

Kara Swisher 27:17 Like, he's giving these speeches that are seem- like, "We must do this," or the An- or the, so I'm not clear who the Antichrist is. I, I guess it, it's people who oppose the complete takeover of the government by tech billionaires. Like, I, I, it was so... I don't even understand. He's gotten increasingly religious, and good for him if he finds comfort in religion.

Scott Galloway 27:39 Peter Thiel's gotten religious?

Kara Swisher 27:41 Oh, yeah. Yeah. Very much so.

Scott Galloway 27:42 Oh.

Kara Swisher 27:42 There's a whole gang of them that are ver- like, uh, it's a, I think it's a brand of Catholicism. It's one of, it's, it's a branch of it. And, and, and so i- it, just the Antichrist? Are you, are you kidding me? Like, it's just the stran- it's... So now it's becoming, in terms of like a real existential fight for the future of humanity is how they're selling it, and I think believing it, actually. I don't think this is a feint. I don't. I think it's an actual belief system. It's all very strange.

Scott Galloway 28:14 It's-

Kara Swisher 28:14 So-

Scott Galloway 28:15 I- it, you do... I use both. I try to cross-reference and use them to check each other. I use ChatGPT, and I use, uh, Claude, uh, to just see, and I like Claude better. I use Claude more because I find it's better with the written word, uh, but ChatGPT I find has more comprehensive data. What I have also noticed is that, and sometimes it bothers me, quite frankly, is Claude is more politically correct. If I'm doing research on the shooters of, um, or the perpetrators of political violence, sometimes if you phrase the question wrong it comes back and says, "I can't provide information on attempted murders," or whatever. And then, you know, and then last night, I got very upset. It wouldn't give me any information on, I wanted to see images of lesbian tech journalists getting facials in Korea, and it just wouldn't go there.

Kara Swisher 29:03 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 29:05 Oh, you just got that.

Kara Swisher 29:06 Yeah, I just got that.

Scott Galloway 29:07 You just got that. That just registered. Anyways, it is more politically correct.

Kara Swisher 29:10 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 29:10 And, uh, so my sense is that at Anthropic, they're, they're sort of trying to be the good guys, and this guy just sort of steps out of line and doesn't line up for the, you know, doesn't line up to be part of the mafia that have, that have, that, that, that David Sachs is clearly a soldier of the dawn in Washington, and the agree is sign up, and you're gonna make a shit ton of money (laughs) at the expense of the lower 490. And it seems like the head of Anthropic, good for him, has not signed up and says, "Well, actually I have some views, and I have some concerns." Because the, uh, uh, you know, I think the collision, personally, between synthetic (laughs) relationships and AI is just so fucking frightening. I, I just think it's... And they're not talking about it. I think it's gonna make it seem like phones and social media were just an Easter parade when, when all of a sudden we notice that everybody or a third of the people in our life have disappeared and are no longer come- coming down for dinner, no longer talking to us because they have decided that their synthetic relationship knows everything and knows them and i- it can run their lives.

Kara Swisher 30:21 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 30:21 And i- i- is, anyways, I-

Kara Swisher 30:24 W- this is-

Scott Galloway 30:24 Go, go ahead, Karen.

Kara Swisher 30:24 This is where Thiel is much more profound. Let me read a quote because, um, i- one of the things is he, he, the hostility towards technology is his focus, and he, h- he... Let me just read this quote 'cause...... um, it, according to some Christian traditions, the Antichrist is a figure who, that will unify humanity under one rule, but, this is from Wired, before delivering us the apocalypse. For Thiel, its evil is pretty much synonymous with any attempt to unite the world. "How might such an Antichrist rise to power?" Thiel asked. "By playing on our fears of technology and seducing us into decadence with the Antichrist slogan, 'Peace and Safety.'" In other words, it would yoke together terrified speeches by promising to rescue it from the apocalates- apocalypse. And he's like, blaming, like, Nick Bostrom, who's an AI doomer, uh, you know, who, uh, I'm not a fan of Nick Bostrom either, but like, he's, this is like, um, so strange and to fend it off, um, y- w- we have to stop people like this, I guess, like, like Anthropic, like any AI doomer, and if there's any... It's just, I, m- it's so strange that, and disturbing that this guy is at the center of power and is influencing all these people. And of course South Park made fun of him. Peter Thiel knows the Anti-, is worried about the Antichrist, which was a very funny episode.

Scott Galloway 31:43 Well, I had some experience with this. I'm not, no joke-

Kara Swisher 31:46 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 31:46 ... I had a dream in the d- and the devil showed up in my dreams and whispered-

Kara Swisher 31:52 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 31:52 ... "I'm coming for you."

Kara Swisher 31:53 Oh, that's good.

Scott Galloway 31:53 And so I whispered back, I whispered back, "That's gay."

Kara Swisher 31:58 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 31:58 (laughs) Why should we be worried about the most powerful people in the world that have an unbelievable command of godlike technology-

Kara Swisher 32:06 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 32:07 ... who basically own the vice president-

Kara Swisher 32:09 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 32:10 ... who are becoming increasingly theocratic?

Kara Swisher 32:12 I know.

Scott Galloway 32:12 I mean, no p- no worries there.

Kara Swisher 32:15 No worries. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 32:15 No worries there. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 32:16 Well, I recommend, uh, South Park's "P- Peter Thiel and the Antichrist." It's really funny. It was really, really funny. Anyway, it's worrisome, and, and, i, I, whatever, w- nobody's, uh, I just don't even wanna s- well, that's enough. Anyway, this is an interesting st-

Scott Galloway 32:31 He's one odd duck.

Kara Swisher 32:32 Odd duck, odd duck.

Scott Galloway 32:33 I'd like to go to a strip club with him. Have you ever partied with him?

Kara Swisher 32:35 N- no. No. I've been to a party at his house, yes. I had an argument with him at it.

Scott Galloway 32:39 Hm.

Kara Swisher 32:40 And it was a long time ago, over something. I can't even remember. It was many moons ago, many iterations of Peter Thiel ago. Uh, I'm exactly the same.

Kara Swisher 32:50 Um, uh, this is an interesting story. GLP, uh, 1 drug stocks fell late last week after Donald Trump said in an Oval Office presser that the price of Ozempic, or as he called it, the fat loss drug, would soon drop to $150 a month. Dr. Mehmet Oz, who's now running Medicare and Medicaid, quickly jumped in to clarify that it's not a done deal yet. The clarification didn't do much to calm investors. Novo Nordisk and Eli Lilly both lost billions in market value. The price of Ozempic is currently around $1,000 a month. I'm talking about the implications if the price really goes down to 150. I'm of two minds. I think it should be 150, like, right? Like, it should be really inexpensive for people who, uh, especially people who are overweight, to figure out a way, 'cause, uh, again, with the secret thing, actually every doctor I talk to talks about the importance of these drugs on the general population. Probably it's the Antichrist, um, 'cause it will unify us in health. Um, but, uh, but what do you think of this? You were one of the first people to talk about the implications of GLP-1 drugs, but the prices remain stubbornly high for, and out of reach of most Americans on a monthly basis.

Scott Galloway 33:52 Look, I, every year when I do my predictions deck, which I'm about to do in a month for the followup, for the next year, I predict a technology of the year. And in '22 and '23 I said it was AI, the first time I've done back to back on a technology, and in '24 I said the technology that's gonna have more impact on a ground level than AI in '24 is GLP-1 drugs. I think these things are nothing short of revolutionary. I mean, the, the fact that if you think about when we came out to Savannah, our, uh, uh, you know, we didn't have access to trans fats, we didn't have access to mating opportunities, free play, so we've become addicted to food, to porn, to gambling, because our instincts have just not caught up to institutional production. And these things are literally scaffolding on our instincts. And when you go into the grocery store, you not only buy less food, you buy more lettuce and kale-

Kara Swisher 34:42 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 34:42 ... and yogurt, (laughs) and you buy less cookies and soda. It's just, how does it know how to turn off the parts of your brain that says, "I need to eat chocolate covered almonds late night-"

Kara Swisher 34:52 Right.

Scott Galloway 34:52 ... "after my five milligram edible?" Which I did last night.

Kara Swisher 34:55 Yeah, I had Milk Duds, but go ahead. I love Milk Duds.

Scott Galloway 34:57 Ooh, those are really bad for you.

Kara Swisher 34:59 I know.

Scott Galloway 34:59 Um, anyways, the, yeah, you're not gonna find those in Korea when you're getting a facial. Um-

Kara Swisher 35:03 I know, that's why I had them here last, I found them in Las Vegas, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 35:06 There you go. So, oh, in the minibar?

Kara Swisher 35:09 No.

Scott Galloway 35:10 Oh, God. I, that's my favorite thing-

Kara Swisher 35:11 I wanted to go.

Scott Galloway 35:11 ... with my son is we bond, we go back to the hotel, and we raid the minibar.

Kara Swisher 35:15 (laughs) You let him know.

Scott Galloway 35:16 Um, uh, anyways, the, uh, w- what was disa- what was disappointing about GLP-1, at least initially in the United States, was the region that had the greatest penetration of GLP-1 was also, ironically-

Kara Swisher 35:27 The richest.

Scott Galloway 35:28 ... the thinnest.

Kara Swisher 35:29 Thinnest, yeah.

Scott Galloway 35:30 And thinnest and richest go one toget- it was, it was ladies of lunch on the Upper East Side lo- trying to lose that last 10. That is not who needs GLP-1. I believe a decent government program would be for Medicare to repeal the legislation that says Medicare cannot negotiate on drugs. We spend two to four times more on Ozempic than they do in other nations, despite the fact that Novo Nordisk produced n- uh, uh, which is a European company, we have American-produced GLP-1 drugs. I would love to see just, um, uh, the federal government do what it's supposed to do, and that is help prevent a tragedy of the commons and use their purchasing power to take these drugs down to 50 bucks a month. Because then it becomes accretive. You will save more than that on food. And the one thing Americans share is not military service, it's not their ethnicity, it's not their religion. The one thing we share as Americans is that 70% of us are overweight or obese.

Kara Swisher 36:28 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 36:28 And if you wanted to figure out a way to save 100 billion, 200 billion, a half a trillion dollars a year, you would get America down to Japanese-like levels of obesity where only four percent-... of, uh, the Japanese are obese. I think it's-

Kara Swisher 36:43 It's actually more than that because I have to say in doing all the... This, this series I'm doing, all... Everyone's like, u- ultimately, it's food, exercise, being rich and abu- and sleep and stuff like that-

Scott Galloway 36:56 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 36:56 ... ultimately for longevity. But every expert I talk to is like, "These drugs are miraculous in terms of getting us to the place we need." Besides the-

Scott Galloway 37:05 Unbelievable.

Kara Swisher 37:05 ... really cool stuff that's happening with cancer and AI and, you know-

Scott Galloway 37:09 This is it.

Kara Swisher 37:09 ... CRISPR.

Scott Galloway 37:10 It's here.

Kara Swisher 37:11 This is, this is the thing that every-

Scott Galloway 37:13 It's here.

Kara Swisher 37:13 ... single... And not just that but, uh, around, uh, i- issues around stroke, around um-

Scott Galloway 37:20 100%.

Kara Swisher 37:20 And taking it in a small amount. Like one of my doctors was like, "You need to take a little bit in a small amount."

Scott Galloway 37:23 Micro dose. Micro.

Kara Swisher 37:25 Right.

Scott Galloway 37:25 I know a ton of people micro... That aren't, that aren't fat that micro dose GLP-1. Uh, I had one of those moments thre-

Kara Swisher 37:30 But it's more addiction, right, and drinking and, um, and cognitive stuff, all this stuff that is like around it. And, uh, of course, it does worry some people that, that it could like m- make a, make a left turn like fenphen or whatever. But most every doctor I talk to is very much s- like not worried about this drug. It's a really interesting, it's a really interesting development.

Scott Galloway 37:55 A- a- about two years ago, I got invited to a dinner, to speak at a dinner and it was neuroscientists. And I thought, "Wow, I, I would like to be in there with a bunch of neuroscientists in case I ever get sick or it's..." It's not a bad idea to have relationships with really good doctors. And so it was, it was a dinner. There was about 16 neuroscientists and me there and the head of this hospital, uh, uh, and I think probably a couple of people who like funded the gold circle of, you know, whatever it was .......................... But... And I noticed about an hour into the dinner, I noticed, I looked around the table and all the plates were half-eaten. All of them. No one had finished their meal. And I said, "I, I can't help it, I noticed but..." And then people had pushed away their food or asked that it be taken away and I'm like... I said, I said, "This is very unusual. No one's eating their food." And I said, "Can I ask a question?" And obviously it was off the record. I said, "Who here is on GLP-1 drugs?" And they all looked at each other sheepishly and like eight of the 14, uh, folks, it was 12 men and two women, raised their hands. And that is, that is supposed to be the tell for if a drug works, is its adoption by the medical community itself. Eh, but these things, uh, i- if you were to t- stop 10 people on the street in America and find 10 hardcore users of AI and 10 people on GLP-1 drugs and query them about the impact on their life emotionally, psychologically, economically, I think GLP-1's having a much bigger impact-

Kara Swisher 39:27 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 39:27 ... on people than AI.

Kara Swisher 39:28 But I'm talking about getting it down to, to r- the regular, you know, the people. I did an interview-

Scott Galloway 39:32 We should give it out.

Kara Swisher 39:33 Well, that's the thing. I did an interview with a nurse who was 350 pounds and she went down. But they... What they did... And then I introduced her to her doctor who's also a, a well-known weight loss doctor, um, and it was, um, a nutritionally-focused doctor. But it was combined with learning how to cook eh- fresh foods and exercise. Like it's the whole-

Scott Galloway 39:54 You gotta do the exercise.

Kara Swisher 39:55 ... package.

Scott Galloway 39:55 Yeah, 100%.

Kara Swisher 39:56 It's the whole package and not just this is not... that you just take the drug and that's it. And that's what was... I mean, I was... Of all the interviews I've done for this thing, that interview was the most moving because I had dinner with her family. And one thing that was really interesting is she, she said to me in the kitchen, she goes, "I was embarrassed. I couldn't do things with them." Like they went to the Grand Canyon. They... It's a very fit family except for her and they went and, um, hiked and I couldn't do it and I'd have two seats on an airplane. You know the whole, the whole story of overweight people.

Scott Galloway 40:27 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 40:27 And, and, uh, and she goes, "I was, I was so em- embarrassed for them. I was embarrassing to them." And I, I repeated it. She hadn't ever told her family and they w- they were heartbroken that she felt that way. It was a really, um... I was very moved. You know what I mean? And it wasn't like I c- Because she tried everything. Like she tried all the diets and everything else. And I have to say she has such a better life. Like and it w- it's not someone who has a lot of money, very modest house in, uh, in Massachusetts, nurse, hardworking and knows about health, right? Is not someone who's not aware of the issues and just it seems like she's going to live a lot longer. That's just the, the facts, right? Um, and so I was like... The combination of the drug with lifestyle changes that... And the drug allows you to do the lifestyle changes more successfully is a really interesting thing.

Scott Galloway 41:22 Th- th-

Kara Swisher 41:22 But what do you think of Trump doing this? (laughs) This is like crazy. Like although-

Scott Galloway 41:26 Well-

Kara Swisher 41:26 ... it's kind of good like in this case, I'm like, "Fine, do it."

Scott Galloway 41:29 I love this topic. So let me back up.

Kara Swisher 41:31 Okay.

Scott Galloway 41:31 The reason why Gavin Newsom will likely be president in 2028 is the same reason why we should have a federal program to get GLP-1 drugs out to everyone that needs them after negotiating a ridiculously low price and it's the following. America is an exceptionally and dangerously and unfairly looksist country and one of the strongest forward-looking indicators of whether a child is going to suffer from adulthood depression is if they're overweight. And also the American Academy of Pediatrics, which is not promiscuous around recommending drug intervention for children, has recommended, right, has embraced GLP-1 for children because here's the bottom line. When you're obese in America, on many levels, you're fucked.

Kara Swisher 42:21 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 42:22 You're going to have trouble finding a mate. You're going to have trouble getting hired. People immediately look at you and regardless of how many subscriptions to The Atlantic or The New York Times, they immediately subconsciously go, "Weak." And it's unfair and then you look in the mirror and you go, "I'm weak and I have no control of my life."... and in my view, after negotiating a radically low price and playing them off against each other, every household in America that is suffering from obesity, they're not a woman looking to lose her last 10 pounds, but if a doctor says obesity is a pre-stage for diabetes for you, it is getting in the way of your mental health, it is getting in the way of your ability to exercise, this shit should be everywhere. It's like fluoride in water. Put the GLP-1 in, effectively, metaphorically, in water. This would be one of the most accretive things, emotionally and financially, we could do in the United States over 36 months.

Kara Swisher 43:16 I agree. Let, uh, we have to wrap up on this one, but let me say, one of the things that y- I am against, is like what Pete Hegseth did, fat generals. Like, it, making it awful, figuring out ways for people to have a better life is different than using fat shaming and everything to do with it.

Scott Galloway 43:32 Yeah, I don't fat sh- I, I, 100% agree with you.

Kara Swisher 43:33 No, I'm not. I'm just saying. That's what I'm saying.

Scott Galloway 43:35 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 43:35 And then the second thing is, um, what's interesting about the Trump administration, RFK Jr. is against all this, and Oz is on the other side. So this should be a really interesting discussion, I think. Well, it'll be interesting to see what happens here, 'cause RFK thinks you should just jog and, and eat, you know, kill your own animals. But...

Scott Galloway 43:51 Well, yeah, but RFK is blessed with good genetics, and, and...

Kara Swisher 43:54 Exactly. Right.

Scott Galloway 43:54 And Mehmet, Mehmet is a doctor, and he sees... Some people, uh, I, I, you know, everybody has people who are overweight in their lives. And we immediately look at them and we unfairly think they're weak. A lot of them are in food deserts, a lot of them don't have the money, uh-

Kara Swisher 44:08 Right. That's another issue.

Scott Galloway 44:08 ... to do anything but eat cheap calories which are fat, and quite frankly, a lot of them are just born really big. They're just, you know, they're born big. So we need empathy. Having said that, Kara, I do think there was a movement that was unproductive, and unfortunately there's no... Th- the pendulum is never at the middle, where it's like, "Okay, let's have empathy for these people, let's figure out programs that give them the capability, let's give them GLP-1 drugs." But when the industrial food complex, including Coca-Cola and McDonald's, which by the way, is... The stock price of Coca-Cola, PepsiCo, McDonald's, KFC, they're all enti- almost entirely correlated to obesity in the US.

Kara Swisher 44:46 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 44:46 And so what did they do? And also, many of the major clothing brands are very much tied to plus-sized clothing. What did they do? They started to romanticize and celebrate obesity. And I hate to say this and I'll get negative comments for it.

Kara Swisher 45:01 You will.

Scott Galloway 45:02 You're not finding your truth, you're finding a fucking ventilator in diabetes.

Kara Swisher 45:07 Oh.

Scott Galloway 45:07 So while we have to have empathy for these people, let's at least be honest and say, "Folks, this is not something to romanticize and celebrate."

Kara Swisher 45:15 No, but it was because of s- the hatefulness that went on for decades before. I think it's okay-

Scott Galloway 45:20 It was for money, Kara.

Kara Swisher 45:22 No.

Scott Galloway 45:22 It was for money.

Kara Swisher 45:22 Maybe so. Maybe so. But i- the kind of, if you're... You know, I've had w- heavy people in my family. It's hateful, the kind of things people say.

Scott Galloway 45:29 We... I agree with you, but... Yep.

Kara Swisher 45:30 And, and now they have a tool, a- a- and then, to, to help get people there. And it is, no question, the right thing to do.

Scott Galloway 45:38 Agreed.

Kara Swisher 45:38 It's just that it, making, making, making people feel ugly about themselves is al- is never a prescription to good health. That's my view.

Scott Galloway 45:45 Uh, w- we a- we a- we agree with that.

Kara Swisher 45:47 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 45:47 But should we have done away with the Presidential Fitness Awards that celebrates fitness because we think of it as fat shaming?

Kara Swisher 45:52 Look at Trump. Trump doesn't exercise.

Scott Galloway 45:53 I used to be very motivated to get the Presidential Fitness Award, the third, the fourth, and I didn't get the fifth year's, fif- fifth, 'cause I had a growth spurt and I couldn't do the pull-ups. And it was very motivating for me to be fit and strong.

Kara Swisher 46:04 I agree.

Scott Galloway 46:05 Just one last thing. I'm, I'm virtue signaling right now. Uh, pharmaceuticals, GLP-1 can do what, there was a dr- a, there was a drug that changed my life. Changed my life.

Kara Swisher 46:17 Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway 46:19 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 46:20 Sorry.

Scott Galloway 46:20 And I'm still addicted to it.

Kara Swisher 46:22 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 46:23 What's the definition of addiction? Something you continue to engage in, despite the fact it damages your life.

Kara Swisher 46:28 All right, we need to move on. What's your one last thing? What's your one last-

Scott Galloway 46:30 That's right. I'm addicted.

Kara Swisher 46:31 What's your one last... All right.

Scott Galloway 46:32 Um, and baby, if this addiction is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

Kara Swisher 46:35 (laughs) If loving you is wrong-

Scott Galloway 46:36 When are you getting that facial?

Kara Swisher 46:38 ... I don't wanna be right (laughs) . That's right.

Scott Galloway 46:38 Anyways. All right. A drug, I had, I have-

Kara Swisher 46:43 Don't hit the, hit the, you're hitting the desk.

Scott Galloway 46:43 Until the age of 40.

Kara Swisher 46:45 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 46:45 Until the age of 40...

Kara Swisher 46:47 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 46:47 ... I had never taken an Advil. I just never took any sort of drug. I barely...

Kara Swisher 46:51 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 46:51 I think I saw the doctor eight times up until the age of 40.

Kara Swisher 46:55 Okay.

Scott Galloway 46:55 I just, I didn't, m- my parents didn't have money.

Kara Swisher 46:57 Okay, this is a short story. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Scott Galloway 46:59 Okay. A drug literally changed my life. Any guesses? And it has to do with aesthetics.

Kara Swisher 47:06 I don't know. Melphins?

Scott Galloway 47:08 From the age of 13, from the age of 13 to 19...

Kara Swisher 47:12 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 47:12 ... if I was ever able to maneuver using a mix of humor, luck, and persistence, able to get a date, this is what you did on a date.

Kara Swisher 47:19 Liquor.

Scott Galloway 47:20 You would take a woman to a movie. And I remember going to see Grease-

Kara Swisher 47:25 Okay.

Scott Galloway 47:25 ... with Melanie Burke.

Kara Swisher 47:26 Okay.

Scott Galloway 47:27 Morena Birk, excuse me, Morena Burke.

Kara Swisher 47:28 That's not a short story. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 47:29 And I was so excited. I went down to this ridiculous preppy store I'd saved up, I got my mom to give me a credit card, I w- I couldn't spend more than $30, and I bought nice corduroys and a, and a Polo, Ralph Lauren Polo shirt with the actual Polo logo on it.

Kara Swisher 47:43 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 47:43 And I bought Sperry Top-Siders.

Kara Swisher 47:45 Okay. Perfect. Got it.

Scott Galloway 47:45 I was just so fucking ready. And I go into Grease, and every time I went into a movie on the few dates I had...

Kara Swisher 47:52 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 47:53 ... I would have to purposely plan, do I go into the aisle first or do I let her go into the aisle first? And you know what that-

Kara Swisher 47:59 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 47:59 ... was based on?

Kara Swisher 48:00 What?

Scott Galloway 48:01 Which side of my face had fewer zits than the other.

Kara Swisher 48:04 Oh. Okay.

Scott Galloway 48:05 Every time I went to the movies, I would strategically plan which side am I gonna sit on, because my acne was so bad, I would have to think-

Kara Swisher 48:16 Oh, yeah.

Scott Galloway 48:16 ... which side is it less grotesque?

Kara Swisher 48:18 Oh, wow.

Scott Galloway 48:19 And finally, my dermatologist, after soaking me for six years of money I did not have...

Kara Swisher 48:25 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 48:26 ... uh, said, "Maybe we should try this drug called Accutane."

Kara Swisher 48:29 Accutane, yeah.

Scott Galloway 48:30 And in 11 weeks...

Kara Swisher 48:31 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 48:32 ... I had perfect skin.

Kara Swisher 48:35 Oh.

Scott Galloway 48:35 Perfect skin.

Kara Swisher 48:37 Wow.

Scott Galloway 48:37 And if you wanna talk about someone going through the most sensitive, insecure, self-conscious time of their life, and they have white heads and enorm- and just their face is riddled with acne up and down their back and their throat...... and all you can think about when you're talking to someone is, "They're staring at my zits. And they hurt, and they, they're painful." And then nine weeks, 11 weeks later, I have perfect, beautiful skin, and all of a sudden girls are smiling at me. And all of a sudden, I don't think about my skin, and all of a sudden shaving isn't like land, isn't like navigating a fucking landmine.

Kara Swisher 49:12 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 49:12 It's the only re- letter I've ever, the first letter I'd ever written to a corporation, I wrote to Hoffman-Laroche...

Kara Swisher 49:18 Wow.

Scott Galloway 49:18 ... and said, and said, "This has absolutely changed my life." And now, and I did this about, it's, it was, I felt like it was two months ago, about seven months ago. I was at a gas station in Nantucket where they actually pump your gas.

Kara Swisher 49:28 Oh my gosh. Okay, good.

Scott Galloway 49:29 And there was a young man and he had terrible cystic acne. And I said, "Look, I'm not, I, I, I'm probably overstepping my boundaries here. I had terrible acne. I took a drug called Accutane and it cleared it up in 11 weeks."

Kara Swisher 49:40 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 49:40 "And it changed my life."

Kara Swisher 49:41 And now, and now we have Scott. Do you know celebrities are micro-dosing Accutane now? Just so you know. (laughs) Just so you know.

Scott Galloway 49:46 But my point is, I think that...

Kara Swisher 49:48 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 49:48 ... GLP-1 can do that. I, I, I, I kind of think there's an equivalence...

Kara Swisher 49:53 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 49:53 ... between terrible acne and obesity. And if you can give people back their confidence, their sense of self, their, their, their, I mean, this, there, there's nothing more important to a human person.

Kara Swisher 50:05 But let's not make people feel badly. I, you, if you, when you see this interview, you, you, she tried everything. But in any case, um, we think this is fascinating. We'll keep covering it. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break, and when we come back, we'll talk about a major security hack. No, not the Louvre. Support for this podcast comes from Zeta. Marketers have been juggling too many tools for way too long. But imagine a world where all your marketing and advertising work together. No silos, no wasted spend, just smarter growth. That's what Zeta makes possible. Zeta is a marketing platform that unifies both paid and owned channels in one system. This helps eliminate duplication, wasted spend, and slow execution. With Zeta, there are no more silos, just accelerated growth. The Zeta marketing platform is an AI-powered solution that unites both owned and paid channels together in a single system, giving CMOs and CFOs a measurable path to predictable, profitable customers. So you can forget about the days of relying on third-party cookies, as Zeta is built on first-party data so you can have reliable foundation for your marketing growth. Zeta is the AI marketing cloud, the platform that unites paid and owned channels into one system, giving CMOs and CFOs a measurable path to predictable and profitable customers. To learn more about Zeta's services, go to zetaglobal.com/pivot. That's zetaglobal.com/pivot. One last time, that's Z-E-T-A global.com/pivot.

Kara Swisher 51:32 Scott, we're back with more news. Cyber security and network security company F5 says nation state hackers broke into its systems this summer, exfiltrating files and stealing some source code. The breach has been blamed on state-backed hackers from China. Over 80% of the Fortune Global 500, as well as universities and credit unions are F5 customers. This is as big as SolarWinds, uh, many people I've talked to this week, actually. F5's a publicly traded company, which would usually mean it's required to disclose cyberattacks within four business days, but the DOJ allowed the company to delay notification, which can do for attacks that pose national security risks. Uh, really, um, disturbing. Um, and I'll note, early Monday morning, a major AWS outage took down services like Amazon, Snapchat, and ChatGPT. There was no indication of malicious, uh, anything malicious at play. But again, every single cyber person I talked to this week was like, "This is bad. This is another bad." That, that the, the, our, our landscape is so porous, uh, for nation hack, uh, for hackers from state-backed, uh, especially from China. Um, it was a, it was another disturbing thing that they didn't have to say anything, that people couldn't act. And we are so exposed from a security point of view. This was some, a really bad attack for people to understand m- wh- how, how dependent we are on, on these kind of things and how vulnerable.

Scott Galloway 52:53 What I don't understand is, and it's easy to heckle from the cheap seats, is I've met some of our, our folks who run our cyber security or our cyber defense. And they're very popular at conferences. And by the way, most of them have been fired because they're not, they're not Republicans, which makes no fucking sense to me. But what they all say is, is that we actually have the best. And what I don't understand is, why isn't it like nuclear weapons in the sense that if they do something like this, shouldn't we be hitting them back three times as hard until we all come to sort of a detente?

Kara Swisher 53:27 We may be. But this, they were in there... One of the things that's classic of these things, they go in, they've been in there for two years, and then they, then they place things there, and then disappear and erase where they were. And that's what they've been doing. And, and so, you know, there's very little known because they keep everything quiet. And the question is, what should people know? What should we understand about it? Um, e- everyone considers this, uh, uh, as big as SolarWinds, um, which happened in 2020, the end of 2020. And, um, and so, you know, I, I suspect lots of stuff is going on behind the scenes with this stuff. Um, but again, the cuts in, by this administration, again, exposes us. The SolarWinds happened, um, i- in the Trump administration, right? It was the end of, it was before Bi- just before Biden got into office. And it, it's the same thing. The idea of like exposing... We, we have such an exposed everything between our infrastructure-

Scott Galloway 54:26 The surface of attack is bigger here.

Kara Swisher 54:26 The surface attack is bigger, and we do not have a, the, the people in place at the, uh, in the government a- as much. I mean, remember who fired Chris Krebs who's our l- uh, uh, I love Chris Krebs. And, um, you know, a lot of people.But we're... You know, we, we... All this is all interconnected, including with the, with the federal government. And so the Chinese have been very successful. I, I suspect we have been hacking them too, etc., etc. But, but, um, but there's broad risks here, that, that I think we, as a country, we have not taken seriously given our dependence on this and even the ones that aren't deemed malicious like this one this morning, these, these may... If AWS has a major outage, all the services get affected, whether it's, you know, Amazon, the stuff we use day-to-day. And so, so much... It's such a... It's something we really do need, we should talk about more and it's complex, uh, obviously, but we... Our country is much more exposed than people realize. I just, I'll just note that.

Scott Galloway 55:24 Well, our tech infrastructure, technology loves scale and compatibility, right? So everything's running on the same source code and, and it can be more fluid and more frictionless. And to their credit, we have 50 states and 50 different electoral procedures and 50 independent technologies tallying votes. It... And a lot of people or, or tech companies have said, "This should all be on one system." And the best defense against that is that, okay, it's feasible that one of us gets hacked, but it's very unlikely all 50 are going to get hacked because we're all on different systems. And just as technology loves scale, it creates more vulnerability because you have entire power grids now that are essentially, if someone figures out how to hack that power grid, you know, you could have three states in the Southeast go down. And what this requires, which we don't have, it requires skill and resources of which we have more than anyone in the world. What we don't have is the long game. So for example, I think the greatest anti-terrorist precision attack in history was the pager attack against Hezbollah. That was years in the making. And what the Chinese do is the long game. My guess is a lot of... Uh, every time there's a real... There's a, there's a cyberattack, my guess is it was put in place or the wheels were put in motion two or three years ago. And unfortunately because of this political back and forth and firing and hiring, it is much more difficult. And also just American mentality focused on quarterly earnings, American mentality does not play the long game. And the Chinese... You know, the Chinese have a 50-year plan. So they already have, they already have assets on the ground here trying to implant listening devices, um, security code routers that maybe in two, three, five years they activate. Uh, because what you don't want to do to raise red flags, red flags are a function of not only the activity but the cluster and the concentration of them. And so if it's just one or two small infiltrations and then there's not a follow-up, people don't worry as much about it. And part of... There's so many ways that our short-term, quite frankly, thinking helps us, but on a lot of levels that hurts us and this is one of those ways. These guys are in for the long game. They'll, they'll start putting in place the infrastructure-

Kara Swisher 57:34 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 57:34 ...for cyberattacks that they won't be able to activate for five or seven or 10 years.

Kara Swisher 57:38 Yeah, absolutely. Anyway, uh, we have to move on, but, um, one more quick break and we'll be back for wins and fails.

Scott Galloway 57:46 Support for the show comes from Vanguard. The lineup includes over 80 bond funds. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk about bonds for a minute. Capturing value in fixed income is not easy. Bond markets can be massive, murky, and let's be real, a lot of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day, but not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. They're actively managed by a 200-person global squad of sector specialists, analysts, and traders. Lots of firms like to highlight their star portfolio managers, like it's all about the one brilliant mind making the magic happen. Vanguard's philosophy is a little different. They believe the best active strategies should be shared across the team. That way every client benefits from the collective brainpower, not just what individuals take. So if you're looking to give your clients consistent results year in and year out, go see the record for yourself at vanguard.com/pivot. That's vanguard.com/pivot. All investing is subject to risk. Vanguard Marketing Corporation, distributor.

Kara Swisher 58:48 Okay, Scott, some wins and fails. We got to be quick because Kara's got another interview soon. Um, do you... Why don't you start?

Scott Galloway 58:53 Well, uh, the obvious one here is, is... And we spent some time talking about it. I do think that the protests were an enormous win for America. It, it... We've all been so, we've all been just so desperate for some pushback and wondering where Americans are. Well, seven million turned out, and that's about 2% of the population. Supposedly, there... I don't know where this test comes from, but supposedly when you had three and a half percent, which would be 11 million, that's when real action starts. But I just don't think there's any getting around it. Uh, a lot of Republican congressmen and senators must have noticed that and said, "Okay, this is... (laughs) There's some real issues here." So I thought at a minimum, it just gave a lot of comfort to Americans that people value our democracy, they value peaceful protest, and they're resisting and they're willing to give up their own time and they really do value the blessings, the liberties, and the, uh, you know, the prosperity. So look, that's, that's my win. I thought it was really, really, uh, wonderful and inspiring. And I tried to take my kids to the Tube station where their mother slept to talk about fascism. They wanted nothing to do with it. Um, uh, but there were protests in Germany, there were protests in the UK. They were all incredibly peaceful, incredibly positive, incredibly optimistic. It was just a good look for America, a very good look, um, for democracy, a very good look for people who want to resist against Trump. That's my win. That's an easy one. The fail is, uh, uh, uh, is George Santos, the disgraced, um-

Kara Swisher 1:00:26 Oh, yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:00:27 ...representative. His seven-year prison sentence has been commuted by Trump after serving just three months. He pled guilty to wire fraud and aggravated identity theft. He, uh, the, the... Look, he, he lied, he committed crimes, he was an embarrassment to the government, but the thing that really chased me here-He's no longer required to pay back more than-

Kara Swisher 1:00:46 Payback.

Scott Galloway 1:00:47 ... $370,000 in court ordered restitution to his victims.

Kara Swisher 1:00:51 Yeah. That was amazing.

Scott Galloway 1:00:51 So the people he lied to and stole from, he no longer has to pay them back.

Kara Swisher 1:00:56 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:00:56 In addition, he, he was only the sixth lawmaker in US history to be expelled from Congress after an ethics report was released outlining his behavior in 2023. He was also the first to be expelled, uh, before being convicted of federal crimes or supporting the Confederacy. So just some of his claims, he claimed his grandparents were Holocaust survivors, they were not. He claimed that the CCP kidnapped his five-year-old niece.

Kara Swisher 1:01:21 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:01:21 That is not true. He claimed to be Jewish, then Jew-ish.

Kara Swisher 1:01:26 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:01:26 He claimed he was a model for Vogue, that's my favorite. He claimed he had a university degree, by the way, he said he went on a volleyball scholarship. That guy hasn't jumped since 1988. He claimed he had a brain tumor. And some of the more outlandish things he said or did while, uh, after being in Congress, he spent campaign funds on Botox, Hermes, and my favorite, OnlyFans. He started selling $200 custom videos on Cameo, I don't think that's that bad. Um, he had a staffer impersonate Kevin McCarthy's chief of staff to raise money, and he committed ID theft by using donors' credit cards to make purchases. So, uh, and what's so sad about this-

Kara Swisher 1:02:04 He's just a scam artist, scam artist.

Scott Galloway 1:02:05 ... is that there are people who are currently incarcerated who have applied for clemency, and some of them have done their best to compensate their victims, show that they're on the right track, and are deserving of clemency. And because they're trying to get Marjorie Taylor Greene back in camp, on camp, and she seemed to like George Santos, they move a guy who's showed no remorse, who is a fucking embarrassment to the Constitution, to America, they push this guy to the front of the line, and the people he stole from are shit out of luck, such that we can... such that the president can kiss Marjorie Taylor Greene's ass. This is such an abuse of the whole, the basic understanding of what clemency is. What clemency... The clemency in pardoning and the... is a wonderful thing. We get it wrong all the time in our justice system. The justice system is a powerful, but it is a crude instrument, and we find out, new evidence comes to light, or we find out that for whatever reason strange laws resulted in a guy who stole an antenna from a Kmart gets issued a life sentence. And these things are taken seriously, and very talented people review these things, and we're just making a mockery of the system.

Kara Swisher 1:03:21 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:03:21 Anyways-

Kara Swisher 1:03:21 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:03:21 ... my fail-

Kara Swisher 1:03:22 Absolutely.

Scott Galloway 1:03:22 ... is that Representative George Santos, his sentence was commuted because of the president's attempt to get Marjorie Taylor Greene to stop talking about the Epstein files.

Kara Swisher 1:03:32 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:03:32 And by the way, my favorite sign was GOP Guardians of Pedophiles.

Kara Swisher 1:03:38 (laughs) God, dear. Anyway, uh, okay, all right, my, uh, my, uh, fail, uh, th- uh, w- was again... was, w- was... Le- let me just... My fail is, is this, these issues around, um, a- around these tech companies and safety, like pushing back against the idea there should be safety, but it's more than that. There's a great story in the New York Times today about, "As tech companies build data centers worldwide to advance artificial intelligence, vulnerable communities have been hit by blackouts and water shortages." They're not just... L- the, the idea that we are against advancing technology at any... e- and then they say, "At any cost," is ridiculous. They're setting it up so that they'll, th- they get all the juicy bits and they hurt people around the globe. 60% of the data centers are outside of the US and there's lots of projects coming all over the place around the world, but it takes enormous amounts of power for computing and water to cool the computers, and these people are... You know, the famous one was, was Musk going into a community, I think, in Tennessee and polluting it 'cause he wanted to get his thing up faster than anyone else. And every... All the governments are, are angling to get... to give them cheap land and tax breaks and things like that, but there is very little transparency around, um, how they're building these data centers. And it's the same idea, they don't care about safety of anybody because they themselves are, are, are doing things and it's really hurting i- individual communities and they go into vulnerable communities, um, to be able to, to do, uh, to do what they need to do and it's very dangerous. Um, uh, and they're not really investing in the communities 'cause most of these things use very few people, um, and so... And these plans just sail through and it's the same idea. If Anthropic wants to talk about safety or if we want to talk about safety, it doesn't mean we hate it, it means that we care about the citizens more than lining the pockets of David Sacks and his friends. So that would be, uh, my fail. Um, I have two very quick wins, I, I've gotta give a credit to, um, both Lorraine Powell Jobs and Ron Conway, he resigned from the board of Salesforce's philanthropic arm over Marc Benioff's original comments about bringing National Guard into San Francisco. Lorraine Powell Jobs also wrote an essay, Beware of Philanthropists Who Want to Control in Exchange for their Giving, and it was a great essay about that, I, I really give kudos to them for stepping out rather, uh, a lot, um, against Mark's stupid res- comments. He s- he now doesn't believe the National Guard needs to come, he, he walked himself back but he looked... tarnished himself. Um, so I, uh, I, uh, I, uh, I give credit to... Th- they did... Uh, lots of people complained but that was... It's hard to go out on a limb if you're in that group of people and they did. Um, but I actually wanna give the win to The Diplomat, uh, it's... Uh, the new season's downloaded to Netflix and Keri Russell is so good, it's such a good... And Allison Janney and, uh, Bradley Whitford, everybody on that cast is amazing and-

Scott Galloway 1:06:28 This is so you have a crush on Keri Russell.

Kara Swisher 1:06:30 I love her, she's a fan of Pivot, by the way. I don't have a crush on her, actually, I have a crush on the whole show, uh, 'cause it's so diplomatic. I wanted to be in the State Department, so I love the whole... It's sort of like my h- I liked Homeland too.

Scott Galloway 1:06:40 Is she going to Korea with you?

Kara Swisher 1:06:41 No, she's not (laughs) , but sh- we're gonna have l- she's a fan of Pivot.

Scott Galloway 1:06:44 Look at you light up.

Kara Swisher 1:06:45 No, I'm not.

Scott Galloway 1:06:45 I just say Keri Russell-

Kara Swisher 1:06:47 No, no.

Scott Galloway 1:06:47 ... and you start smiling.

Kara Swisher 1:06:47 No, no, no.

Scott Galloway 1:06:48 Look at... It's okay, it's okay.

Kara Swisher 1:06:49 You're wrong, not my type. But nonetheless-

Scott Galloway 1:06:51 Even though you're 80, you still have hormones.

Kara Swisher 1:06:53 No, I d- (laughs) do-... she's not, she's not my type. But-

Scott Galloway 1:06:56 You're not taking that estrogen, you're getting a little-

Kara Swisher 1:06:58 ... I, I just wanna say-

Scott Galloway 1:06:59 ... those, those shots, little links.

Kara Swisher 1:06:59 ... it's a great show and lots of people like this show. Stop it. Everyone likes it. As usual, you turn something beautiful into ugliness.

Scott Galloway 1:07:06 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 1:07:07 But it's a great-

Scott Galloway 1:07:07 Never seen it. Never seen it.

Kara Swisher 1:07:09 All right, it's great. You would love it.

Scott Galloway 1:07:11 I watched four episodes of Slow Horses last night.

Kara Swisher 1:07:13 Okay, if you like that. Do you do like Homeland?

Scott Galloway 1:07:16 Love Homeland.

Kara Swisher 1:07:16 Okay, you'll love this.

Scott Galloway 1:07:18 Love Homeland. Yeah, I've heard. People say it's great.

Kara Swisher 1:07:19 The writer of this is, is the writer of this is Deborah Cahn. She's so talented. Uh, there was one line, this is why I love it, there's all these great lines. Besides she doesn't comb her hair, et cetera, and they make jokes about it. But, um, there's one line-

Scott Galloway 1:07:29 Yeah, I'm sure she looks just awful.

Kara Swisher 1:07:31 She looks- (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:07:32 She's the one that, like, yeah... Yeah, that, that's... Let me guess. She's, like, really sloppy and still looks like a nine out of ten. Right?

Kara Swisher 1:07:40 (laughs) Ten, 11 out of 10.

Scott Galloway 1:07:41 Yeah. Right.

Kara Swisher 1:07:42 Um, but, um, she's really good, and she's had a great career. She's had really interesting roles, including The Americans and things like that. But I don't want to talk about Kerry Russell because, even though I think she's great, um, but I have to say there's a lot, there's a lot of lines in it, the writers are terrific. And they, and it, one reminded me of you, which is, you're, you're about... They're talking about her husband, Hal, and I'm blanking on the actor's name who played it but, who, who's great too. Um, but he, uh, she goes, "You're, you're about as subtle as a kidney stone." Which (laughs) I immediately thought of you, Scott.

Scott Galloway 1:08:10 I appreciate that.

Kara Swisher 1:08:11 "You're, you're about as subtle as a kidney stone." Anyway, I love that show, and now you're making it ugly, which is very sad.

Scott Galloway 1:08:17 I have comments on all of this. Are you... Do, do you have to go get a pedicure with Boutros, Boutros-Ghali?

Kara Swisher 1:08:22 No, no. Go ahead, very quickly. Very quickly, go ahead.

Scott Galloway 1:08:24 It's impossible for me. Okay, first off-

Kara Swisher 1:08:26 We'll have another podcast.

Scott Galloway 1:08:26 ... the data centers-

Kara Swisher 1:08:27 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:08:27 ... the data centers are nothing but, again, another elegant transfer of wealth from middle class-

Kara Swisher 1:08:31 Yep.

Scott Galloway 1:08:32 ... homes to big tech. How is that gonna happen? They are picking these areas where they are, quote unquote, desperate for jobs or where the congressperson representing that area wants to get some of that AI money, uh, sent to their pack for, um, for regulatory capture, for campaign fundraising. And the bottom line is these data centers might as well be dark during the day. They create very few jobs. What they do is they will create jobs to get built, but they create very few ongoing jobs. What they do is they are so power-hungry that you are gonna see 50%, 100%, 200%, 300% increases in electricity costs in these areas. And what will end up happening is the government, these people will get outraged, so the government will step in and will subsidize the electricity costs of the grid, which is nothing but a transfer of wealth from taxpayers, especially people consuming electricity in those regions, to big tech firms. Everything in America right now is trying to prop up 10 firms who have been responsible for 77% of the S&P's gain this year, which is the only cloud cover that Donald Trump has to send federal troops into peaceful cities. This is another... This will be another elegant transfer of wealth. And then what was your second one?

Kara Swisher 1:09:39 Keri Russell.

Scott Galloway 1:09:40 What was my... Oh, wait. Keri Russell, the diplomat?

Kara Swisher 1:09:42 The diplomat.

Scott Galloway 1:09:42 Oh, no, Marc Benioff.

Kara Swisher 1:09:43 Benioff, yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:09:43 Let me... Just so I can fill our YouTube comments-

Kara Swisher 1:09:45 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:09:45 ... with a bunch of hate.

Kara Swisher 1:09:47 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:09:47 I love Laurene Pala- Paljobs. I thought it was an elegant article. I think Ron Conway is fantastic. He invested in two of my companies. This is how we lose 28.

Kara Swisher 1:09:57 Hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:09:57 And that is... I get it. Uh, uh, Marc Benioff said something stupid. He has since apologized. And now everyone is doing what Democrats do, they're more interested in a purity test, they're more interested in grabbing social virtue, they're more interested in getting their guardians of gotcha pin, they're more interested in going after a white billionaire than they are around being effective. Marc Benioff is a huge ally for San Francisco. He is a huge ally for Democrats. He fucked up, and he's being treated like an apostate. And this is exactly what is wrong with Democrats.

Kara Swisher 1:10:28 Those essays were before. They, they said things before, and they didn't want it affiliated with him.

Scott Galloway 1:10:33 If you're Marc Benioff-

Kara Swisher 1:10:34 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:10:35 ... and you have literally spent 20 years trying to be the most generous guy in California-

Kara Swisher 1:10:40 He still is generous.

Scott Galloway 1:10:40 ... supportive of pr- supportive of progressive policies, supportive of Democratic politics, and then all these Democrats wave in with their finger 'cause he fucked up, and he did fuck up, and by the way, he's apologized. Let's just, let's just talk about the reality of this. Do you think Marc Benioff is now gonna be really, really in it to win it and support Democratic candidates right now?

Kara Swisher 1:11:00 I'm not sure.

Scott Galloway 1:11:00 Or is he thinking, "You know what, guys? Go fuck yourselves."

Kara Swisher 1:11:02 I-

Scott Galloway 1:11:03 This is what Democrats do.

Kara Swisher 1:11:04 Yes.

Scott Galloway 1:11:04 "We have decided maybe you're my ally-"

Kara Swisher 1:11:07 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 100%.

Scott Galloway 1:11:07 "... but you're holding the gun wrong. So I'm going to go after you rather than the real enemy." Could we be any more fucking stupid? And this is-

Kara Swisher 1:11:15 No, no. Scott, he a- he asked for National Guard-

Scott Galloway 1:11:18 ... the typical Democratic... This is a-

Kara Swisher 1:11:18 ... to come to San Francisco.

Scott Galloway 1:11:19 He fucked up, and he's also been an enormous, an enormous supporter of Democratic ideals-

Kara Swisher 1:11:24 Yes, yes, but the point being, yes-

Scott Galloway 1:11:25 ... and politics. And here's the thing.

Kara Swisher 1:11:26 Uh, I'm not agreeing with you.

Scott Galloway 1:11:27 Oh, oh, sorry. One strike you're out. We're Democrats.

Kara Swisher 1:11:30 No, no, one strike.

Scott Galloway 1:11:30 And guess what? JD Vance in 2028, this is exactly how we lose the election.

Kara Swisher 1:11:36 No. I think we should-

Scott Galloway 1:11:37 Democrats are much more concerned with grabbing social virtue than they are of actually getting shit done.

Kara Swisher 1:11:40 It's not social virtue to be critical of your own allies. It's not. It's normal. It's actually what it-

Scott Galloway 1:11:45 There is such a pile-on right now-

Kara Swisher 1:11:46 No, you're so far down the Trump world.

Scott Galloway 1:11:47 There is such a pile-on.

Kara Swisher 1:11:49 No, don't agree with you.

Scott Galloway 1:11:49 Oh, yeah. Me and Trump-

Kara Swisher 1:11:50 No.

Scott Galloway 1:11:50 ... were very tight. There is such a pile-on right now.

Kara Swisher 1:11:52 No, no, but the Trump world is you don't apologize for anything. And you, you, you, you-

Scott Galloway 1:11:55 He did apologize.

Kara Swisher 1:11:56 He kind of did, but that's okay. Whatever it is.

Scott Galloway 1:11:58 He said, "I'm sorry."

Kara Swisher 1:11:59 Yes. I know, but it was-

Scott Galloway 1:11:59 He said, "My comments were ill-timed and I'm sorry." And now everyone's writing op-eds about how billionaires and philanthropy should rule the world.

Kara Swisher 1:12:04 No, that op-ed was written, by the way, before, and I think it influenced him, by the way, FYI.

Scott Galloway 1:12:11 Oh my-

Kara Swisher 1:12:11 And I think Ron... Hmm. I do know, I happen to know what's happening.

Scott Galloway 1:12:11 There is so much, there is so much, there is so much hate right now out there from people who see an opportunity to pile on and grab social virtue at no risk to themselves-

Kara Swisher 1:12:22 You know what? Guess who I interviewed. Guess... All right, I've gotta go but guess who I interviewed-

Scott Galloway 1:12:23 ... who haven't done a fraction for the Democratic Party of San Francisco is Marc Benioff. Who's that? Who's that?

Kara Swisher 1:12:26 ... over the weekend. Bernie Sanders. He says we shouldn't even deal with the billionaires.

Scott Galloway 1:12:29 The lady giving you a squid facial in Seoul.

Kara Swisher 1:12:32 (laughs) I interviewed Bernie Sanders and he's like, "This is the problem with going with the rich people. I'm just saying." He's just-

Scott Galloway 1:12:38 Oh, okay. That's gonna help us.

Kara Swisher 1:12:39 I think we're-

Scott Galloway 1:12:39 Demonize rich people.

Kara Swisher 1:12:41 Not demonize them, but we... Come on, rich people had far-

Scott Galloway 1:12:43 Yeah, they are. Billionaires shouldn't exist according to Bernie Sanders.

Kara Swisher 1:12:45 No, no, no, rich people had far too much of an influence in both parties.

Scott Galloway 1:12:50 Agreed.

Kara Swisher 1:12:50 Far too much.

Scott Galloway 1:12:51 Agreed.

Kara Swisher 1:12:52 Far too much.

Scott Galloway 1:12:53 Agreed. That's just-

Kara Swisher 1:12:53 And that's when it's gotta end. That's-

Scott Galloway 1:12:54 That's Citizens United.

Kara Swisher 1:12:56 Yes, I get it, but they've-

Scott Galloway 1:12:56 But in the meantime, let's try and get as many billionaires on our side.

Kara Swisher 1:13:00 ... had far too much. No, I, I, no. We've got to, like, build... We have to build a coalition of everybody.

Scott Galloway 1:13:02 The people that, the same people talking about maybe we should Elon bring... The same people saying maybe we'd be smart to bring Elon Musk back into the Democratic Party are taking a great Democrat who fucked up and basically putting him, casting him onto a, an island.

Kara Swisher 1:13:16 They won't. He won't, they won't let him into the Trump gang anyway, so it doesn't matter. That said, we should have not, there's been too much billionaire influence of all the billionaires on-

Scott Galloway 1:13:24 Agreed.

Kara Swisher 1:13:24 ... all sides.

Scott Galloway 1:13:25 Agreed.

Kara Swisher 1:13:25 And it has to stop. Anyway, we're not gonna argue this. I think it was a-

Scott Galloway 1:13:27 Well, okay, first, the Citizens