PivotWhy is Peter Thiel Warning About the Antichrist? | Pivot
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,038 words- 0:00 – 6:06
Intro
- SGScott Galloway
... why should we be worried about the most powerful people in the world that have an unbelievable command of godlike technology, who basically own the vice president, who are becoming increasingly theocratic? I mean-
- KSKara Swisher
I know. (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... no, no worries there.
- KSKara Swisher
No worries. (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
No worries there. (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
(instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- KSKara Swisher
Guess where I am?
- SGScott Galloway
I like this game. Where are you?
- KSKara Swisher
Las Vegas, your favorite place. Vegas, baby.
- SGScott Galloway
What are you doing in Vegas?
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, I'm giving a speech at a place you gave a speech at. I can't remember the... Stansberry? Anyway, uh, I'm here to talk about AI, of course, because that's the topic du jour of many of these events and stuff like that. So.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, nice. And-
- KSKara Swisher
I didn't do-
- SGScott Galloway
... Vegas.
- KSKara Swisher
... anything in Vegas last night. I went to sleep and I watched The Diplomat before that. That's what I did. (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, really?
- KSKara Swisher
It was an entire evening, yes. (laughs) Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, wow. That's... uh, it does it... how does it feel?
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. To what?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I mean, how does the mood... people say Vegas is dying because people now have Vegas in their pocket with their phones and people-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... have less money.
- KSKara Swisher
You know, it was full. You know, I was... I'm at, um... I, I ate at the, at the, um... it's not the Wynn, it's... I guess it's the Wynn. The one with all the trees that hang down. You know ho-... Las Vegas better than I do. But I'm staying, uh, at, at the Encore, that whole facility. And, um, it's, it's... was packed. I was surprised. It was very jolly. Um, although it wasn't... I wouldn't say the casino was packed, that's for sure. Um, but it was... it wasn't, like, unfull, I guess. I don't know. Is this the time of year for it to be full?
- SGScott Galloway
Um, I think Vegas is pretty much a year-round place.
- KSKara Swisher
Right, right.
- SGScott Galloway
And, um, conventions and everything.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
And, um, I used to go there-
- KSKara Swisher
I've only been here... Oh, sorry. Go ahead.
- 6:06 – 12:50
No Kings Protests
- KSKara Swisher
But first, almost seven million people gathered to take part in a No Kings protest this weekend around the country. Over s- 2,700 events took place in 50 states. The protests were peaceful, with no arrests, no arrests being made in cities like D.C. and New York, which drew, obviously, the biggest crowds. Some s-
- NANarrator
(instrumental music)
- KSKara Swisher
... highlights. "Real clowns would, uh, run things better." "I like taters, not dictators." "Tylenol is safer than tyranny." "You sucked in Home Alone 2." "Mike Johnson blocked me on Grindr." And of course, "Groper Cleveland." Um, GOP lawmakers are calling the movement a hate America rally. Still? I think they won't stop. And claiming it's a political cover for a shutdown. It looked pretty jolly to me. Um, of course, as usual, President Trump tried to suck up the oxygen in the room, and... by posting an AI-generated video depicting him dropping feces, well, it was just a poop, he... a big, giant diarrhea, from a fighter jet onto protestors. Uh, a lot of the m- uh, a lot of the mainstream media wouldn't say that that's what it was. I mean, I think it was just a distraction, 'cause he didn't get any attention. Uh, turnout was impressive. I don't know if it does much, but it was really quite amazing. It was like, that's a lot of people. Um, and again, it was peaceful and seemed lovely, and, uh, a good, uh, organizing thing, I suspect. Um, any thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
(smacks lips) I think it's really important. I think the, the... You know, I always g- go back to World War II, and that is, what was so disappointing about World War II initially was that so many people seemed to enable it or look the other way. And then the pushback, uh, by Americans... Now obviously, Europe had an existential threat that this guy was invading them. (laughs) But America did have real controversy over whether to reenter Europe for the second time after they'd paid such a terrible cost in the first World War, and a lot of people didn't, didn't really understand why that was our war and we were about to do it again. And ultimately, their decision to move into the war was, uh, you know, kind of a vision of FDR that, like, "This, this will hit our shores eventually." And they weren't as much pushing back on antisemitism. Really, they weren't pushing back on antisemitism. They were pushing back on fascism. And this is... In my view, America has become very fat and happy and lazy, and has taken its prosperity, its alliances, and its freedoms for granted because the majority of us have been raised in an era where those things continue to get better. And so the natural assumption is, "It couldn't happen here, and it'll, it'll keep getting better." And I think for the first time, Americans are thinking, or first time in a while, are thinking, "Okay, maybe that isn't a guaranteed right." And the, the best, the best summary of it, to encapsulate, I think... well, at least how I feel about it, is, uh, the following. (clears throat) "The No Kings protest isn't about hating America, but about loving it enough to defend it. For generations, Americans have stood up when power grew too big, when truth got twisted, or when leaders forgot they served the people. This is one of those moments that defines who we are as Americans. We will stand together peacefully, not to divide the country, but to remind it who we are." And that's from this great philosopher, Eric Theodore Cartman from South Park.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
So... But he said... Uh, I thought it just kind of perfectly encapsated the moment.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
So to be clear, I'm not sure if that was AI. Uh, I did some research and some people have attributed that quote to Heather Shreve Buehler. But regardless, it's a wonderful, it's a wonderful quote.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And this is... This stuff is important, and people say, "Well, uh, I agree that oca- you know, these protests are better when there's a specific action required."
- KSKara Swisher
Sure.
- SGScott Galloway
But I think that when you saw those videos yesterday-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... in your feed on social, you realize Americans are upset. Americans are prone to action. Americans will take the time to give up their Saturday and put together a sign. Uh, the Americans on this side, it always comes across as a little hippie dippy and a little bit like Mother Jones and Cynthia Nixon-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... and, uh, with kombucha-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... you know, which I don't... You know, they, they come across-
- KSKara Swisher
I think it did, but... I don't think this one did, but go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
No, I... This one was less of that.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
It felt just very positive, very solid. There were some videos that really bothered me. The video flying around the internet that really upset me was of that idiot who gets tripped and hurts his face, and a lot of-
- KSKara Swisher
What is it?
- SGScott Galloway
... progressives are celebrating it and calling it karma. I don't think that's good for us-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh.
- SGScott Galloway
... or the nation.
- KSKara Swisher
No.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh...
- KSKara Swisher
I saw a lot of people in inflatable animal costumes, which-
- SGScott Galloway
That's hilarious.
- 12:50 – 22:17
Colleges Push Back
- KSKara Swisher
Um, now, as of this recording, six colleges have rebuffed the Trump administration's so-called Compact for Academic Excellence in Higher Education ahead of the White House deadline. The agreement offers special access to federal funding in exchange for schools agreeing to a set of demands, including race and sex as factors, uh, eliminating race and sex as factors in admissions and capping international enrollment. MIT, Brown, Pe- Penn, USC, UVA, and Dartmouth have all said no, arguing the deal would undermine free speech and academic independence. The White House initially approached nine universities and is now reaching out to more schools after a wave of rejections. Uh, really interesting, I think, um, uh, really interesting that they're, they're doing this. I don't know as much about it. What i-... How did you feel about this? As, as, as someone who's... You like some of it, but I think overall, the government is getting its dirty mitts in things that is none of their business.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, some of it, I mean, some of it's sorta common. It's, it's not even what's in there. It's, it's, that's not important. What's important is whether or not the federal government should be threatening to withdraw funds unless they sign up to a series of standards, some of which include what sort of distills down to thought control or who you hire. And I think the majority of it could be, or a lot of it could be perceived... Freeze tuition, although that's basically a price control, that's socialism. But who you hire and who you let in, that's sort of... I don't know. I, I, I have some issues with that. Uh, reducing the number of international students. I mean, just to riff on that for a moment, we keep talking about bringing American jobs back, and there is, there are few. For every 1% decrease in international enrollment, we lose a billion dollars. And that is, imagine (clears throat) ... Just to highlight how stupid, fucking stupid these tariffs are, international trade widely is asymmetrically beneficial towards us. We sell a NVIDIA GPU hopper at $100,000. It's $55,000 of operating profit times a PE of 40. We get $2 trillion in market value. Mercedes sells a $100,000 Mercedes at 10% operating margin trading at a multiple of eight, they get $80,000 in shareholder value. And another great example of how asymmetric and beneficial to us our international trade is, there will be a small number of students, although it will triple or quintuple this year, of American kids who decide to go to Instituto Empresa in Madrid. And they will spend money, they will spend their American dollars and their parents' American dollars in Spain, which will grow the Spanish economy. We get, we, we get hundreds of thousands if not millions of kids and families who come here, and at NYU, they're spending about $280,000 in tuition over four years, they're renting three, five, $7,000 apartments, they're buying Chipotle every goddamn day. And then th- there's the soft power of they like Americans and they stay in contact with them when they go back to run the economic ministry of El Salvador or wherever. It's just, the, i- i- it is so much high-margin revenue for us, and to discourage foreign students by putting a cap on the number that can come here, they're looking at it the wrong way. And that is, the University of North Carolina says, "Okay, we're gonna give you $650 million, but you have to let in 82%." Now, what they should do is just expand the top line number with their endowment and let in more kids. But anyways, I don't mind that. What they need to do is the following, in my view, and I had dinner on Thursday night with the chancellor of UCLA, Julio Frenk, uh, who's a really impressive guy, and I won't speak to the specifics of the conversation. My view is, the first thing they need to do is coordinate, and that is, they need to hold their, hold their tongues and elect, uh, a couple presidents of these universities to represent them all, and then st- stand around the fire, hold hands and say, "Whatever this group decides, we are going along with," because how they lose is to be divided. One-
- KSKara Swisher
To be pulled off one by one, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
That's exactly right. UCLA says, "We'll take the money," and SC says no. That's an authoritarian's playbook. You go along with me, I'll make you super rich. You don't go along with me, I'll illegally punish you.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
The first thing is coordination. The second thing is litigation, because a lot of this is just wrong.
- KSKara Swisher
Also.
- SGScott Galloway
A lot of this is, uh, so y- y- they're, they're trying to interpret visa rules arbitrarily, and there's a precedent, there's a precedence against that, a legal decision, the 2022 DACA rescission. They, there's constitutional protections here, the First Amendment against compelled speech or ideological litmus tests for faculty or curricula, that's a violation of the First Amendment. The Tenth Amendment spending clause, if federal funds are conditioned on political compliance, they could file in sympathetic jurisdictions. They also need to weaponize, and they haven't done this, their alumni to make financial commitments such that they have the financial wherewithal, at least in the short term-
- KSKara Swisher
Harvard is up, right? Harvard is actually up in donations recently.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, also, the, the schools that have immediately pushed back, Kara, it's no accident. They're the ones with the largest per capita or per student endowments, 'cause they can afford to push back. And then state level counterweights, they could have legislative sh- shields, attorney general lawsuits, parallel funding, in sum, they need to use the courts, coordination, uh, inspiration around fundraising-
- KSKara Swisher
Choice.
- SGScott Galloway
... and litigation to delay this bullshit, but they all need to speak with one-
- KSKara Swisher
One voice.
- SGScott Galloway
... with one voice. Otherwise, they're gonna-
- KSKara Swisher
It seems like. It seems like. I don't know who the others, the nine, are, but that's, well, that's one, two, three, four, five, five of them. All of them should be part of this.
- SGScott Galloway
They should be speaking with one voice.
- KSKara Swisher
It's sort of like the, the Pentagon thing last week. Just stop it. Like, enough.
- SGScott Galloway
And also-... also, I, I think they should go gangster. We have, uh... Universities are a corrupt cartel. They have this enforcer of the corruption, which is the accreditation. There's a board made up of the incumbents that accredits universities. And you need accreditation, otherwise you don't qualify for federal student, uh, loans. And i- i- i- it's just insane. They don't allow new universities. They don't accredit new ones. So what do you know? Uh, universities have not grown. There are not... They are not adding additional universities. Students are actually... There's a bit of a birth dearth. You know, there's a chill over international students. They think international, applications from international students are go to, are gonna go down 20% to 40%.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I've seen the sales.
- SGScott Galloway
And for every student that comes here to a private university, that's literally probably like... Let's think about it. That's probably $400,000 or $500,000. Say the average family spends $15,000 when they come to America. It's like 20 or 30 families not coming here to go to Disneyland and Universal Studios and see the Grand Canyon.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
It's just really fucking stupid.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
It's a huge... And in addition, our PhD students, and I've gone on about this forever, we attract the best and brightest to make our weapons, our chemotherapy, our pharmaceuticals, our internet applications which spill over into huge job growth. So this is just... I mean, in addition to the economic-
- KSKara Swisher
Well-
- SGScott Galloway
... end of it.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay, go ahead. I'm gonna stop you in a second, but go ahead. Go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, uh, this is the bottom line. The accreditation institution should be an enforcer here and say, "We're speaking with one voice, bitch."
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
"And if you decide to go make a side deal with your buddies in the administration, yeah, maybe you're even legally compliant, but we're gonna make it hard for you (laughs) to get accredited next year."
- 22:17 – 27:09
Anthropic vs. The White House
- KSKara Swisher
(swoosh) Scott, we're back. The latest feud over AI regulation is between Anthropic and the White House, specifically Trump's AI czar, David Sacks. Sacks is accusing Anthropic co-founder Jack Clark of running a, quote, "sophisticated regulatory capture strategy based on fear-mongering." Oh, did you look up all those words, David? This was in response to an essay Clark wrote about balancing optimism and caution around AI. Sacks is also claiming Anthropics' position itself as a foe of the Trump administration. And while, uh, CEO Dario, uh, Dario Amodi, who backed Kamala Harris, isn't bending the knee like other tech CEOs, Anthropic still has a number of government contracts and partnerships. Um, really weird, a weird attack, I thought, and, and specifically calling on someone who's supposed to be this AI czar and supposed to be, uh, pushing all the companies and everything. And of course, those that have showed up for Trump and given him money and done all these things get all the juicy bits. It's sort of an insider game here with Sacks at the center of it, and I'm sure he's quite effective at getting what he wants around cyber and, uh, I mean, uh, crypto and, and this. But to attack one company for just making normal... Uh, they wanna build a brand around safety to do that. It seems bizarre to me. I guess he just... uh, he wants everybody to, to go along with the, uh, with the casino that's big in Las Vegas and the, the, the House is always in charge. But I don't know. Any thoughts on this?
- SGScott Galloway
You said something that, that's always struck me, that every accusation is-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... an admission. Is that what you said? Every ac-
- KSKara Swisher
Confession, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... is a confession. Uh, he wrote, "Anthropic is running a sophisticated regulatory capture strategy based on fear-mongering." Uh, no. We have never seen regulatory capture (laughs) like big tech, uh, showing up to the White House. And the tariffs are as effectively a transfer from the 490 that have to figure out the sclerotic strategy to the 10, the magnificent 10, that really aren't affected by, um, AI. I'm sorry. They really aren't affected by tariffs. And for him to say that because Anthropic has said, "I'm not gonna bend a knee on everything here," is sort of... And also, let's be clear, he didn't write this. The White House wrote this.... the White House, it, the, he's not gonna do anything without the White House's approval. And so, for some reason, Anthropic has gotten cross-eyed with the Trump administration, and he's sort of, he's sort of threatening him and threatening them. In addition, this just, at a very baseline level we forget, the administration is not supposed to speak to punish or reward individual companies.
- KSKara Swisher
Correct. That was what was so strange about it.
- SGScott Galloway
They're supposed to pass laws that affect everybody or don't affect everybody. Or-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... they take all AI companies on a tour of Asia with the Secretary of Commerce-
- KSKara Swisher
Right. Right.
- SGScott Galloway
... to try and build business. Or they say, "Here's an idea. Every AI company cannot have any technology that lets people under the age of 18 engage in synthetic relationships." You don't decide, "Okay. I don't have an investment. Me and my venture firm and my buddies don't have an investment in Anthropic, so I'm gonna go after them individually." This is... And if you look at, at a, at a more broader level, if you look at jobs, what's happening with jobs, who's getting really hurt are small businesses. And small and medium-sized businesses are responsible for two thirds of job growth in America. Why? 'Cause small and medium-sized businesses have no seat at the table. They don't get to go to the White House and cut sweetheart deals and get big deals-
- KSKara Swisher
That's what, yeah-
- SGScott Galloway
... and big contracts.
- KSKara Swisher
... I was thinking that's the, like, that's the whole thing. Like, I was thinking about all these businesses that don't get to go to the Mar-a-Lago patio, as I said, and one of the things around this essay is read the essay that Jack wrote, Jack Clark wrote. Um, it is essentially like, "I'm really excited about, uh, AI, but there are some things we should worry about." Like, literally, he's not a foe of the Trump-
- SGScott Galloway
No, he's not.
- KSKara Swisher
... administration. The, he's just making a normal thing that everyone... And by the way, there is a growing worry about all this, like, uh, among normal people, which Sachs never, never sets his foot near. And I think if you're, if you're a parent, if you're, if you're a business, everybody is... And, and, and the stock market feels very frothy based on the spen- Everyone understands what's happening here from a stock market point of view. And all he was saying was, "We should h- be cautious." Like, just 'cause he wants to, like, have a little bit of regulation and put, put it in the hands of our elected officials, which would be Congress, to be passing some of this stuff. I think it's just... I, I was sort of really struck by the, how, how corrupt the situation has become, um, and of course it puts... Anthropic's gonna have to do government contracts. It's gonna have to do, you know, just like, this is where all the big money is for these things to grow into actual businesses. And so it's really, uh, the picking and choosing, if you- again, socialism. And then the weirdest thing this week was,
- 27:09 – 32:50
Peter Thiel Warns of Antichrist
- KSKara Swisher
uh, w- this, these stories of Peter Thiel's, uh, ha- has some thoughts on A- AI regulation. He's warning it could summon the Antichrist if we stop it.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I saw that.
- KSKara Swisher
Like, he's giving these speeches that are seem- like, "We must do this," or the An- or the, so I'm not clear who the Antichrist is. I, I guess it, it's people who oppose the complete takeover of the government by tech billionaires. Like, I, I, it was so... I don't even understand. He's gotten increasingly religious, and good for him if he finds comfort in religion.
- SGScott Galloway
Peter Thiel's gotten religious?
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Very much so.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh.
- KSKara Swisher
There's a whole gang of them that are ver- like, uh, it's a, I think it's a brand of Catholicism. It's one of, it's, it's a branch of it. And, and, and so i- it, just the Antichrist? Are you, are you kidding me? Like, it's just the stran- it's... So now it's becoming, in terms of like a real existential fight for the future of humanity is how they're selling it, and I think believing it, actually. I don't think this is a feint. I don't. I think it's an actual belief system. It's all very strange.
- SGScott Galloway
It's-
- KSKara Swisher
So-
- SGScott Galloway
I- it, you do... I use both. I try to cross-reference and use them to check each other. I use ChatGPT, and I use, uh, Claude, uh, to just see, and I like Claude better. I use Claude more because I find it's better with the written word, uh, but ChatGPT I find has more comprehensive data. What I have also noticed is that, and sometimes it bothers me, quite frankly, is Claude is more politically correct. If I'm doing research on the shooters of, um, or the perpetrators of political violence, sometimes if you phrase the question wrong it comes back and says, "I can't provide information on attempted murders," or whatever. And then, you know, and then last night, I got very upset. It wouldn't give me any information on, I wanted to see images of lesbian tech journalists getting facials in Korea, and it just wouldn't go there.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, you just got that.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I just got that.
- SGScott Galloway
You just got that. That just registered. Anyways, it is more politically correct.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And, uh, so my sense is that at Anthropic, they're, they're sort of trying to be the good guys, and this guy just sort of steps out of line and doesn't line up for the, you know, doesn't line up to be part of the mafia that have, that have, that, that, that David Sachs is clearly a soldier of the dawn in Washington, and the agree is sign up, and you're gonna make a shit ton of money (laughs) at the expense of the lower 490. And it seems like the head of Anthropic, good for him, has not signed up and says, "Well, actually I have some views, and I have some concerns." Because the, uh, uh, you know, I think the collision, personally, between synthetic (laughs) relationships and AI is just so fucking frightening. I, I just think it's... And they're not talking about it. I think it's gonna make it seem like phones and social media were just an Easter parade when, when all of a sudden we notice that everybody or a third of the people in our life have disappeared and are no longer come- coming down for dinner, no longer talking to us because they have decided that their synthetic relationship knows everything and knows them and i- it can run their lives.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And i- i- is, anyways, I-
- KSKara Swisher
W- this is-
- SGScott Galloway
Go, go ahead, Karen.
- KSKara Swisher
This is where Thiel is much more profound. Let me read a quote because, um, i- one of the things is he, he, the hostility towards technology is his focus, and he, h- he... Let me just read this quote 'cause...... um, it, according to some Christian traditions, the Antichrist is a figure who, that will unify humanity under one rule, but, this is from Wired, before delivering us the apocalypse. For Thiel, its evil is pretty much synonymous with any attempt to unite the world. "How might such an Antichrist rise to power?" Thiel asked. "By playing on our fears of technology and seducing us into decadence with the Antichrist slogan, 'Peace and Safety.'" In other words, it would yoke together terrified speeches by promising to rescue it from the apocalates- apocalypse. And he's like, blaming, like, Nick Bostrom, who's an AI doomer, uh, you know, who, uh, I'm not a fan of Nick Bostrom either, but like, he's, this is like, um, so strange and to fend it off, um, y- w- we have to stop people like this, I guess, like, like Anthropic, like any AI doomer, and if there's any... It's just, I, m- it's so strange that, and disturbing that this guy is at the center of power and is influencing all these people. And of course South Park made fun of him. Peter Thiel knows the Anti-, is worried about the Antichrist, which was a very funny episode.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I had some experience with this. I'm not, no joke-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... I had a dream in the d- and the devil showed up in my dreams and whispered-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... "I'm coming for you."
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, that's good.
- SGScott Galloway
And so I whispered back, I whispered back, "That's gay."
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs) Why should we be worried about the most powerful people in the world that have an unbelievable command of godlike technology-
- 32:50 – 51:31
GLP-1 Price Reduction?
- KSKara Swisher
Um, uh, this is an interesting story. GLP, uh, 1 drug stocks fell late last week after Donald Trump said in an Oval Office presser that the price of Ozempic, or as he called it, the fat loss drug, would soon drop to $150 a month. Dr. Mehmet Oz, who's now running Medicare and Medicaid, quickly jumped in to clarify that it's not a done deal yet. The clarification didn't do much to calm investors. Novo Nordisk and Eli Lilly both lost billions in market value. The price of Ozempic is currently around $1,000 a month. I'm talking about the implications if the price really goes down to 150. I'm of two minds. I think it should be 150, like, right? Like, it should be really inexpensive for people who, uh, especially people who are overweight, to figure out a way, 'cause, uh, again, with the secret thing, actually every doctor I talk to talks about the importance of these drugs on the general population. Probably it's the Antichrist, um, 'cause it will unify us in health. Um, but, uh, but what do you think of this? You were one of the first people to talk about the implications of GLP-1 drugs, but the prices remain stubbornly high for, and out of reach of most Americans on a monthly basis.
- SGScott Galloway
Look, I, every year when I do my predictions deck, which I'm about to do in a month for the followup, for the next year, I predict a technology of the year. And in '22 and '23 I said it was AI, the first time I've done back to back on a technology, and in '24 I said the technology that's gonna have more impact on a ground level than AI in '24 is GLP-1 drugs. I think these things are nothing short of revolutionary. I mean, the, the fact that if you think about when we came out to Savannah, our, uh, uh, you know, we didn't have access to trans fats, we didn't have access to mating opportunities, free play, so we've become addicted to food, to porn, to gambling, because our instincts have just not caught up to institutional production. And these things are literally scaffolding on our instincts. And when you go into the grocery store, you not only buy less food, you buy more lettuce and kale-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... and yogurt, (laughs) and you buy less cookies and soda. It's just, how does it know how to turn off the parts of your brain that says, "I need to eat chocolate covered almonds late night-"
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
... "after my five milligram edible?" Which I did last night.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I had Milk Duds, but go ahead. I love Milk Duds.
- SGScott Galloway
Ooh, those are really bad for you.
- KSKara Swisher
I know.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, anyways, the, yeah, you're not gonna find those in Korea when you're getting a facial. Um-
- KSKara Swisher
I know, that's why I had them here last, I found them in Las Vegas, but go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
There you go. So, oh, in the minibar?
- KSKara Swisher
No.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, God. I, that's my favorite thing-
- KSKara Swisher
I wanted to go.
- SGScott Galloway
... with my son is we bond, we go back to the hotel, and we raid the minibar.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) You let him know.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, uh, anyways, the, uh, w- what was disa- what was disappointing about GLP-1, at least initially in the United States, was the region that had the greatest penetration of GLP-1 was also, ironically-
- KSKara Swisher
The richest.
- SGScott Galloway
... the thinnest.
- KSKara Swisher
Thinnest, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And thinnest and richest go one toget- it was, it was ladies of lunch on the Upper East Side lo- trying to lose that last 10. That is not who needs GLP-1. I believe a decent government program would be for Medicare to repeal the legislation that says Medicare cannot negotiate on drugs. We spend two to four times more on Ozempic than they do in other nations, despite the fact that Novo Nordisk produced n- uh, uh, which is a European company, we have American-produced GLP-1 drugs. I would love to see just, um, uh, the federal government do what it's supposed to do, and that is help prevent a tragedy of the commons and use their purchasing power to take these drugs down to 50 bucks a month. Because then it becomes accretive. You will save more than that on food. And the one thing Americans share is not military service, it's not their ethnicity, it's not their religion. The one thing we share as Americans is that 70% of us are overweight or obese.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And if you wanted to figure out a way to save 100 billion, 200 billion, a half a trillion dollars a year, you would get America down to Japanese-like levels of obesity where only four percent-... of, uh, the Japanese are obese. I think it's-
- KSKara Swisher
It's actually more than that because I have to say in doing all the... This, this series I'm doing, all... Everyone's like, u- ultimately, it's food, exercise, being rich and abu- and sleep and stuff like that-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
... ultimately for longevity. But every expert I talk to is like, "These drugs are miraculous in terms of getting us to the place we need." Besides the-
- SGScott Galloway
Unbelievable.
- KSKara Swisher
... really cool stuff that's happening with cancer and AI and, you know-
- SGScott Galloway
This is it.
- 51:31 – 58:48
F5 Security Hack
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, we're back with more news. Cyber security and network security company F5 says nation state hackers broke into its systems this summer, exfiltrating files and stealing some source code. The breach has been blamed on state-backed hackers from China. Over 80% of the Fortune Global 500, as well as universities and credit unions are F5 customers. This is as big as SolarWinds, uh, many people I've talked to this week, actually. F5's a publicly traded company, which would usually mean it's required to disclose cyberattacks within four business days, but the DOJ allowed the company to delay notification, which can do for attacks that pose national security risks. Uh, really, um, disturbing. Um, and I'll note, early Monday morning, a major AWS outage took down services like Amazon, Snapchat, and ChatGPT. There was no indication of malicious, uh, anything malicious at play. But again, every single cyber person I talked to this week was like, "This is bad. This is another bad." That, that the, the, our, our landscape is so porous, uh, for nation hack, uh, for hackers from state-backed, uh, especially from China. Um, it was a, it was another disturbing thing that they didn't have to say anything, that people couldn't act. And we are so exposed from a security point of view. This was some, a really bad attack for people to understand m- wh- how, how dependent we are on, on these kind of things and how vulnerable.
- SGScott Galloway
What I don't understand is, and it's easy to heckle from the cheap seats, is I've met some of our, our folks who run our cyber security or our cyber defense. And they're very popular at conferences. And by the way, most of them have been fired because they're not, they're not Republicans, which makes no fucking sense to me. But what they all say is, is that we actually have the best. And what I don't understand is, why isn't it like nuclear weapons in the sense that if they do something like this, shouldn't we be hitting them back three times as hard until we all come to sort of a detente?
- KSKara Swisher
We may be. But this, they were in there... One of the things that's classic of these things, they go in, they've been in there for two years, and then they, then they place things there, and then disappear and erase where they were. And that's what they've been doing. And, and so, you know, there's very little known because they keep everything quiet. And the question is, what should people know? What should we understand about it? Um, e- everyone considers this, uh, uh, as big as SolarWinds, um, which happened in 2020, the end of 2020. And, um, and so, you know, I, I suspect lots of stuff is going on behind the scenes with this stuff. Um, but again, the cuts in, by this administration, again, exposes us. The SolarWinds happened, um, i- in the Trump administration, right? It was the end of, it was before Bi- just before Biden got into office. And it, it's the same thing. The idea of like exposing... We, we have such an exposed everything between our infrastructure-
- SGScott Galloway
The surface of attack is bigger here.
- KSKara Swisher
The surface attack is bigger, and we do not have a, the, the people in place at the, uh, in the government a- as much. I mean, remember who fired Chris Krebs who's our l- uh, uh, I love Chris Krebs. And, um, you know, a lot of people.But we're... You know, we, we... All this is all interconnected, including with the, with the federal government. And so the Chinese have been very successful. I, I suspect we have been hacking them too, etc., etc. But, but, um, but there's broad risks here, that, that I think we, as a country, we have not taken seriously given our dependence on this and even the ones that aren't deemed malicious like this one this morning, these, these may... If AWS has a major outage, all the services get affected, whether it's, you know, Amazon, the stuff we use day-to-day. And so, so much... It's such a... It's something we really do need, we should talk about more and it's complex, uh, obviously, but we... Our country is much more exposed than people realize. I just, I'll just note that.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, our tech infrastructure, technology loves scale and compatibility, right? So everything's running on the same source code and, and it can be more fluid and more frictionless. And to their credit, we have 50 states and 50 different electoral procedures and 50 independent technologies tallying votes. It... And a lot of people or, or tech companies have said, "This should all be on one system." And the best defense against that is that, okay, it's feasible that one of us gets hacked, but it's very unlikely all 50 are going to get hacked because we're all on different systems. And just as technology loves scale, it creates more vulnerability because you have entire power grids now that are essentially, if someone figures out how to hack that power grid, you know, you could have three states in the Southeast go down. And what this requires, which we don't have, it requires skill and resources of which we have more than anyone in the world. What we don't have is the long game. So for example, I think the greatest anti-terrorist precision attack in history was the pager attack against Hezbollah. That was years in the making. And what the Chinese do is the long game. My guess is a lot of... Uh, every time there's a real... There's a, there's a cyberattack, my guess is it was put in place or the wheels were put in motion two or three years ago. And unfortunately because of this political back and forth and firing and hiring, it is much more difficult. And also just American mentality focused on quarterly earnings, American mentality does not play the long game. And the Chinese... You know, the Chinese have a 50-year plan. So they already have, they already have assets on the ground here trying to implant listening devices, um, security code routers that maybe in two, three, five years they activate. Uh, because what you don't want to do to raise red flags, red flags are a function of not only the activity but the cluster and the concentration of them. And so if it's just one or two small infiltrations and then there's not a follow-up, people don't worry as much about it. And part of... There's so many ways that our short-term, quite frankly, thinking helps us, but on a lot of levels that hurts us and this is one of those ways. These guys are in for the long game. They'll, they'll start putting in place the infrastructure-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
...for cyberattacks that they won't be able to activate for five or seven or 10 years.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, absolutely. Anyway, uh, we have to move on, but, um, one more quick break and we'll be back for wins and fails.
- SGScott Galloway
Support for the show comes from Vanguard. The lineup includes over 80 bond funds. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk about bonds for a minute. Capturing value in fixed income is not easy. Bond markets can be massive, murky, and let's be real, a lot of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day, but not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. They're actively managed by a 200-person global squad of sector specialists, analysts, and traders. Lots of firms like to highlight their star portfolio managers, like it's all about the one brilliant mind making the magic happen. Vanguard's philosophy is a little different. They believe the best active strategies should be shared across the team. That way every client benefits from the collective brainpower, not just what individuals take. So if you're looking to give your clients consistent results year in and year out, go see the record for yourself at vanguard.com/pivot. That's vanguard.com/pivot. All investing is subject to risk. Vanguard Marketing Corporation, distributor.
- 58:48 – 1:13:33
Wins and Fails
- KSKara Swisher
Okay, Scott, some wins and fails. We got to be quick because Kara's got another interview soon. Um, do you... Why don't you start?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, uh, the obvious one here is, is... And we spent some time talking about it. I do think that the protests were an enormous win for America. It, it... We've all been so, we've all been just so desperate for some pushback and wondering where Americans are. Well, seven million turned out, and that's about 2% of the population. Supposedly, there... I don't know where this test comes from, but supposedly when you had three and a half percent, which would be 11 million, that's when real action starts. But I just don't think there's any getting around it. Uh, a lot of Republican congressmen and senators must have noticed that and said, "Okay, this is... (laughs) There's some real issues here." So I thought at a minimum, it just gave a lot of comfort to Americans that people value our democracy, they value peaceful protest, and they're resisting and they're willing to give up their own time and they really do value the blessings, the liberties, and the, uh, you know, the prosperity. So look, that's, that's my win. I thought it was really, really, uh, wonderful and inspiring. And I tried to take my kids to the Tube station where their mother slept to talk about fascism. They wanted nothing to do with it. Um, uh, but there were protests in Germany, there were protests in the UK. They were all incredibly peaceful, incredibly positive, incredibly optimistic. It was just a good look for America, a very good look, um, for democracy, a very good look for people who want to resist against Trump. That's my win. That's an easy one. The fail is, uh, uh, uh, is George Santos, the disgraced, um-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
...representative. His seven-year prison sentence has been commuted by Trump after serving just three months. He pled guilty to wire fraud and aggravated identity theft. He, uh, the, the... Look, he, he lied, he committed crimes, he was an embarrassment to the government, but the thing that really chased me here-He's no longer required to pay back more than-
- KSKara Swisher
Payback.
- SGScott Galloway
... $370,000 in court ordered restitution to his victims.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. That was amazing.
- SGScott Galloway
So the people he lied to and stole from, he no longer has to pay them back.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
In addition, he, he was only the sixth lawmaker in US history to be expelled from Congress after an ethics report was released outlining his behavior in 2023. He was also the first to be expelled, uh, before being convicted of federal crimes or supporting the Confederacy. So just some of his claims, he claimed his grandparents were Holocaust survivors, they were not. He claimed that the CCP kidnapped his five-year-old niece.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
That is not true. He claimed to be Jewish, then Jew-ish.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
He claimed he was a model for Vogue, that's my favorite. He claimed he had a university degree, by the way, he said he went on a volleyball scholarship. That guy hasn't jumped since 1988. He claimed he had a brain tumor. And some of the more outlandish things he said or did while, uh, after being in Congress, he spent campaign funds on Botox, Hermes, and my favorite, OnlyFans. He started selling $200 custom videos on Cameo, I don't think that's that bad. Um, he had a staffer impersonate Kevin McCarthy's chief of staff to raise money, and he committed ID theft by using donors' credit cards to make purchases. So, uh, and what's so sad about this-
- KSKara Swisher
He's just a scam artist, scam artist.
- SGScott Galloway
... is that there are people who are currently incarcerated who have applied for clemency, and some of them have done their best to compensate their victims, show that they're on the right track, and are deserving of clemency. And because they're trying to get Marjorie Taylor Greene back in camp, on camp, and she seemed to like George Santos, they move a guy who's showed no remorse, who is a fucking embarrassment to the Constitution, to America, they push this guy to the front of the line, and the people he stole from are shit out of luck, such that we can... such that the president can kiss Marjorie Taylor Greene's ass. This is such an abuse of the whole, the basic understanding of what clemency is. What clemency... The clemency in pardoning and the... is a wonderful thing. We get it wrong all the time in our justice system. The justice system is a powerful, but it is a crude instrument, and we find out, new evidence comes to light, or we find out that for whatever reason strange laws resulted in a guy who stole an antenna from a Kmart gets issued a life sentence. And these things are taken seriously, and very talented people review these things, and we're just making a mockery of the system.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Anyways-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... my fail-
- KSKara Swisher
Absolutely.
- SGScott Galloway
... is that Representative George Santos, his sentence was commuted because of the president's attempt to get Marjorie Taylor Greene to stop talking about the Epstein files.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And by the way, my favorite sign was GOP Guardians of Pedophiles.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) God, dear. Anyway, uh, okay, all right, my, uh, my, uh, fail, uh, th- uh, w- was again... was, w- was... Le- let me just... My fail is, is this, these issues around, um, a- around these tech companies and safety, like pushing back against the idea there should be safety, but it's more than that. There's a great story in the New York Times today about, "As tech companies build data centers worldwide to advance artificial intelligence, vulnerable communities have been hit by blackouts and water shortages." They're not just... L- the, the idea that we are against advancing technology at any... e- and then they say, "At any cost," is ridiculous. They're setting it up so that they'll, th- they get all the juicy bits and they hurt people around the globe. 60% of the data centers are outside of the US and there's lots of projects coming all over the place around the world, but it takes enormous amounts of power for computing and water to cool the computers, and these people are... You know, the famous one was, was Musk going into a community, I think, in Tennessee and polluting it 'cause he wanted to get his thing up faster than anyone else. And every... All the governments are, are angling to get... to give them cheap land and tax breaks and things like that, but there is very little transparency around, um, how they're building these data centers. And it's the same idea, they don't care about safety of anybody because they themselves are, are, are doing things and it's really hurting i- individual communities and they go into vulnerable communities, um, to be able to, to do, uh, to do what they need to do and it's very dangerous. Um, uh, and they're not really investing in the communities 'cause most of these things use very few people, um, and so... And these plans just sail through and it's the same idea. If Anthropic wants to talk about safety or if we want to talk about safety, it doesn't mean we hate it, it means that we care about the citizens more than lining the pockets of David Sacks and his friends. So that would be, uh, my fail. Um, I have two very quick wins, I, I've gotta give a credit to, um, both Lorraine Powell Jobs and Ron Conway, he resigned from the board of Salesforce's philanthropic arm over Marc Benioff's original comments about bringing National Guard into San Francisco. Lorraine Powell Jobs also wrote an essay, Beware of Philanthropists Who Want to Control in Exchange for their Giving, and it was a great essay about that, I, I really give kudos to them for stepping out rather, uh, a lot, um, against Mark's stupid res- comments. He s- he now doesn't believe the National Guard needs to come, he, he walked himself back but he looked... tarnished himself. Um, so I, uh, I, uh, I, uh, I give credit to... Th- they did... Uh, lots of people complained but that was... It's hard to go out on a limb if you're in that group of people and they did. Um, but I actually wanna give the win to The Diplomat, uh, it's... Uh, the new season's downloaded to Netflix and Keri Russell is so good, it's such a good... And Allison Janney and, uh, Bradley Whitford, everybody on that cast is amazing and-
- SGScott Galloway
This is so you have a crush on Keri Russell.
- KSKara Swisher
I love her, she's a fan of Pivot, by the way. I don't have a crush on her, actually, I have a crush on the whole show, uh, 'cause it's so diplomatic. I wanted to be in the State Department, so I love the whole... It's sort of like my h- I liked Homeland too.
- SGScott Galloway
Is she going to Korea with you?
- KSKara Swisher
No, she's not (laughs) , but sh- we're gonna have l- she's a fan of Pivot.
- SGScott Galloway
Look at you light up.
Episode duration: 1:16:32
Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript
Transcript of episode _qAEY16FZOM
Get more out of YouTube videos.
High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.
Add to Chrome