PivotWhy Scott Galloway Calls Anthropic's IPO "The Most Anticipated in History"
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
75 min read · 14,920 words- 0:00 – 0:27
Intro
- SGScott Galloway
They build huge companies, they become obsessed with the success of these companies, and as a result, they go from being true ballers to true bitches.
- KSKara Swisher
[upbeat music] Hi, everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- KSKara Swisher
First off, I just wanna say I was right again.
- SGScott Galloway
That's a shocker.
- KSKara Swisher
Paramount has
- 0:27 – 11:26
Paramount–Warner Settlement
- KSKara Swisher
reached a [laughs] settlement with a coalition of 12 states that sued to block its Warner Bros., uh, Discovery takeover, uh, clearing the biggest remaining hurdle to the deal. Paramount will not have to sell off cable channels as part of the settlement, although the full terms of the agreement have not been disclosed, but it looks like very much behavioral remedies and not structural ones as promised by Rob Bonta, who looks like a fool here, actually. A range of concessions reportedly discussed, including a $1.5 billion investment in production in California after threatening to leave, a dingbat editorial board for CNN and CBS to ease concerns over independence, which is completely toothless, a commitment not to sell either studio lot, I'm not sure what that's about, and a potential penalties if Paramount fails to produce 30 movies a year, which they already do. So we'll get to the White House thing that was happening, but, um, y- I wanna talk about this a little bit. I've got some props for you. Is that okay?
- SGScott Galloway
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
So, you know, I s- I don't know if you know this, but I work for CNN sometimes. This is a CNN logo that I stole from them when I was there.
- SGScott Galloway
All right.
- KSKara Swisher
Do you like it?
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, it's a cool prop.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, a logo.
- KSKara Swisher
That's going.
- SGScott Galloway
[laughs] Okay.
- KSKara Swisher
Ugh.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
I wanna have some nice coffee here. Let's see. What is that?
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, wow.
- KSKara Swisher
You like that?
- SGScott Galloway
Are you making an announcement? Are you defecting?
- KSKara Swisher
No, not an announcement. I have a contract, uh, with, uh... This coffee is delicious. I'm gonna have some in this delightful MSNBC cup. It is, it is kind of old and wretched.
- SGScott Galloway
It's not MS- MSNBC. No!
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. [laughs] No! In any case, no, my contr- I was just literally reading my contract today, uh, as you might imagine, when this news struck, 'cause I threatened to leave, and I have asked my agent to get me out of my contract. It, it ends December 31st, so, uh, it's only a few months, right? I'm just... I just can't. I just... I thought, like... I was trying to figure out ways I could work with them in some, like, licensing way, but then I thought, "Fuck these guys. I don't wanna work for them. I just don't." I got too much to do with you, Scott Galloway. I like-
- SGScott Galloway
Kara, I, I, I'm, uh, little-
- KSKara Swisher
And it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter to me.
- SGScott Galloway
Let me give you a little inside scoop here.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay. Give me insight. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I think there's a decent likelihood when you show up-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... to whoever it is you show up to at CNN and say, "I want out of my contract"-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... they jump up and say, "Congratulations. No problem." [laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
No, not at all. You're wrong. You're... [laughs] I know you think that. I know you'd like to run me down.
- SGScott Galloway
"We'll miss you."
- 11:26 – 27:19
White House Press Ban
- KSKara Swisher
news. The five major TV networks are suspending their rotating White House pool coverage after Trump administration refused to allow CNN to serve as a pool representative. This comes shortly after President Trump banned CNN, msnow, and Politico from the White House, saying media outlets shouldn't be able to report fictions and lies. Actually, they are allowed to do that, Donald Trump. Reporters from all three outlets were turned away Saturday with their White House press passes deactivated or confiscated. Trump said there was no single story that prompted the ban, calling the result of the years of negative coverage and warning that other outlets could be next. Apparently, Natalie Harp fed him all manner of negative clips from msnow. All three outlets are set to sue the administration. They have an excellent lawyer, Ted Boutrous, asking a federal judge to reverse the ban, which it probably will be, 'cause it's Con-- government shall make no law restricting the freedom of the press. Um, so, uh, they'll probably restore access. He might restore it for the Ellisons, I guess. And, but the whole, but everyone's banding together. This is important because, you know, I think it's the last gasp of an autocrat here, what he's doing, and maybe he was up late with Natalie, you know, shooting the shit. Um, but, but it is related, like who owns these things and who has the guts to stand up to this kind of nonsense.
- SGScott Galloway
I watched Real Time with Bill Maher because Jess was on, and there was a guy, David Gruff, Bruff? Anyway, um, and he said that he was defending First Amendment and said that Robert Kraft, who owns the Gillette Stadium in Boston, should allow Macklemore to play, and the president should allow, uh, all of these media outlets in for the White House press briefings. And I find that that's a false analogy.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
Robert Kraft owns Gillette Stadium.
- KSKara Swisher
He's a private person, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
It's a private-- I get to decide who's in my house, and if they offend me for whatever reason, I can say, "Fuck you, you're not welcome in my home." I get to say that. If Robert Kraft feels that Macklemore is a raging anti-Semite, of which I would agree, he can say, "Yeah, I'd rather, I'd rather him just not be in my house." He gets to make that, he gets to make that assessment. The White House is our house. It's the definition of a public space. And we have decided, like, that the most important thing that we put, let me think, three, four, number one in terms of our amendments, that it's important that media has a check on government. But net-net, this ultimately ends up being a distraction because these White House press briefings, Donald Trump's ego is gonna result in him restoring it. Because he'd rather have a raucous party where occasionally someone offends him, than have a sad party that no one shows up to. And the media, even Fox, is like, "Okay, this is wrong." And as the media does, and this is a wonderful thing about the media, they do look out for each other.
- KSKara Swisher
Finally, yeah. I, I was waiting. I was waiting. I was like, "Is Fox gonna..." 'Cause the, uh, Fox News person is head of the White House Correspondents Association, and she's been very suck-uppy to Trump. But she did make strong statements, you gotta give her credit. Um, you remember I was so against that stupid White House Correspondents' Dinner 'cause-
- SGScott Galloway
Well, what happens when the Biden or the, the Har- or the Newsom administration blocks Fox? I mean-
- KSKara Swisher
Should not. Should not.
- SGScott Galloway
Agree, but my point is, they all realize we're next. I mean, uh, we can't have this. We've gotta have... Anyways, this, I think this ends up, uh, uh, you're in this business and have a better gut for it. My thesis, another distraction. Ultimately-
- KSKara Swisher
Of course
- SGScott Galloway
... everyone's back in the room.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, but-
- SGScott Galloway
Your thoughts
- KSKara Swisher
... it, it is another distraction. You're absolutely right. I think he's, you know, he got ginned up by Natalie at night, um, and not in the ways that are fun. Um, and I think-
- SGScott Galloway
We don't know that. Could be a lot of fun going on there
- KSKara Swisher
... she is the most influential per- And I, I doubt it. Uh, she's the most influential member of this administration, by the way. Um, 'cause they, 'cause Susie Wiles was away, and that's when this stuff dropped, um, from what the reporting. Um, I think it's, um, it is a distraction, but boy, Scott, it's terrifying. You know what I mean? Like, this is e-
- SGScott Galloway
The autocrat's handbook?
- KSKara Swisher
I, yes. I think he's on the last vestiges of an autocrat situation, and I think it'll be like what happened in Hungary, uh, you know, with Orbán, et cetera. Uh, uh, it's still disturbing in the United States of America. Hungary doesn't have the First Amendment. We do. And it's so dead clear here. And it does matter who owns these things, which is why the Ellisons are ill-equipped to do it. I don't think they have any backbone. They'll suck up to anyone that, that'll matter. I think they're gonna get a buzz saw from the Democrats if things change in November. Um, and I think that's another thing that's gonna happen and hurt that company quite a bit. That said, they have to, like, know what... Media ownership requires a certain amount of backbone. It really, these days. Um, and, and, and I fear they don't have it. Um, I, again, as I said, like, Murdoch's actually, his newspapers, whether it's the Journal or some others, have been very good reporting, like really strong. I wouldn't call it anti-Trump reporting. It just is really tough on the corruption of the Trump administration. Um, and you need tho- you need those, those things. And so it, it's, it, it is a distraction, but it's also incredibly worrisome that he does this. Also 'cause I think he's by himself late at night with this young, stupid woman. I think that what's incredible to watch a lot of these cabinet members, and we're gonna, g- we have a very interesting quote right now. Um, but there's all these cabinet members, uh, you know, just jumped on the thing, of course, 'cause they don't say things. The worst of them was Scott Bessent, who, m- the Gray Poupon man is working my last nerve at this point. But the press cares more about press than anything else after the White House correspond-
- SGScott Galloway
Well, CNN is platforming him, Kara.
- KSKara Swisher
I, uh, you know, he is the Treasury Secretary, but, like-
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, I'm sorry. I was thinking of Scott Jennings.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, Scott Jennings.
- SGScott Galloway
I withdraw the comment. Sorry.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, I'm sure he'll get a raise in the new Ellison administration. Uh, good, he can take my money. Um, uh, but y- Scott, they, they all backed him. And so when we're on this topic, this idea of quislings and cowards and people that enable, Trump is clearly off his rocker, and he, he loves the press and hates them. It's the same old story. But let's hear a clip from Jake Weisberg, who has a book out on all of the people and institutions who have failed to stand up to Trump called Profiles in Cowardice. Let's listen.
- SPSpeaker
The biggest coward in America today is Jeff Bezos. The President of the United States is attacking the free press. He has banned several news organizations from entering the White House. He's taken their press badges away. And what is the owner of one of the most important newspapers in the United States doing? Nothing. What's he saying? Nothing publicly, and I suspect nothing privately. And what makes Bezos such a coward is that he didn't used to be this way. In Trump One, he was a stalwart owner of The Washington Post. He stood up to Trump's bullying. He said and did all the right things. So what's happened? I think the answer has to do with his competition with Elon Musk in space. That's the thing he cares about. It's the thing he cares about more than the free press. It's the thing he cares about more than American democracy. I used to think that when you had a billion dollars, that was the ultimate "fuck you" money, pardon the expression. But it turns out it's "I'm fucked" money, because it gives Trump power over you. He can come after your assets. He can take away what you have. And people, in a way, who are vastly wealthy seem to be more threatened in terms of what their ambitions are, what they have to lose, than people who have a lot less.
- KSKara Swisher
Anyway, it, it is interesting what's gonna happen to this class of cowards. Um, I don't know how you look at it. I mean, I get going along with a president, but at some point, not to defend the F- First Amendment, and which was all over, whether it was Mike Waltz, that guy, or any of these Congress people, it's really s- That's what worries me, Scott. That's what really gets me, is they're like, "Huh, good point. They're really mean to you."
- SGScott Galloway
I've been thinking about this a lot, and that is I, I think you and I, the, uh, have both thought you want just the right amount of money. I have some friends who I would argue have exactly the wrong amount of money, and that is they've made enough money so they feel no impetus to take a job, and no job meets the bar they have for what they should do. And they wake up two, three, five years later and they've done fuck all. But they don't have enough money to retire or live the life they wanna lead for the rest of their lives. They have exactly the wrong amount of money. There's something to having a right amount of money where you don't let perfect be the enemy of good and you just get on starting, like, making your career and making progress. It's great to not have economic anxiety. We have the right amount of money in the sense I was thinking about that, a- and that is we have given enough m- We, we have enough economic security, and this is a wonderful thing, where we have independence. And what it appears is that when you have billions, it creates interdependence.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
You start becoming dependent upon the government for contracts, and that is-
- 27:19 – 37:19
Amazon Blocks Meta’s AI Agent
- KSKara Swisher
up, Amazon has blocked Meta's new Muse AI assistant from shopping on Amazon, saying Meta didn't get permission for letting the agent access its store. Amazon says Muse raises security and privacy concerns 'cause it can access cons- customer accounts and order histories, and it doesn't identify itself as an AI agent while browsing. It's interesting 'cause you have... I just downloaded Muse, and I d- gave Mark Zuckerberg almost zero access to anything, including my Amazon. It wanted to go buy something for me on Amazon, and I said, "No." I didn't give it the access to it. Um, i, uh, but if I give it the access, it's none of Amazon's fucking business if I want this thing to shop for me, not that I would let it. I didn't let Muse have my, um, mail. It's probably gonna be very ineffective. Or my access to my Gmail or access to my calendar or access to my... Some people are giving their financial stuff, not giving it acc- I just wanna see how it does on lots of little things. Like I'm-
- SGScott Galloway
Right
- KSKara Swisher
... going to Vienna tomorrow. What's a good walk? That kind of stuff. Um, what do you think about this push, pushing them, um, uh, pushing back Amazon? This is gonna happen a lot, right? Correct? 'Cause they're gonna want you to use their Amazon AI, presumably, which I use, by the way, when I use the service.
- SGScott Galloway
I, I like your take, and I'm just sort of processing this real time because, for example, if you use a VPN-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... and you do it at 2:00 in the morning, or you fool... You say you dial into United Airlines-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... or JetBlue-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... from a different country at a different time, it'll give you a lower fare.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Because it discriminates.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
And so the airlines wanna block VPNs. A- actually, I don't know if that's true, but I would imagine they have an economic incentive. And Amazon has said, "We don't want people super smart," or, "We don't want thousands of agents coordinating f- trying to figure out the lowest price and when to buy," and they're blocking it. My initial reaction was, I think this is an incredible product app opportunity for Amazon, and I want the same Amazon toll booth gate governor to be deployed across every content creator such that-
- KSKara Swisher
Hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... when any AI or crawler comes for any of my IP-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... I set the parameters on whether I want it done.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I wanna charge for it, and then the bot decides if it wants to come in, if it wants to pay the toll.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, that's actually really smart. That's a great business opportunity.
- SGScott Galloway
Because the model here is pretty basic. People say, well, AI, AI is effectively ingesting every piece of human IP ever created, strip mining it, and selling it back to the people who it's putting out of work. There's a real legitimate concern there, and the model is very basic. When you listen to KROQ 106.7, Rock of the '80s in Los Angeles, which is the greatest radio station in history, and you see, you listen to the B-52s, at the end of the year, KROQ play, uh, pays the recording artist, whatever, call it-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, RIAA-
- SGScott Galloway
They pay them-
- KSKara Swisher
... I think it is. Whatever, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
They pay them, call it, a million bucks 'cause all of the artists have agreed to license their music, and then the rights association distributes it out. And then they go, "Okay, KROQ, you are 1% of our playlist," and they send $10,000 to Warner Brothers, who represents the B-52s. I think we need the same technology here. I'm all for AI having access to data. I would like AI to have access to my data. I like it when people say, "Write something in the voice of Scott Galloway," or, "What, what is the lesson on sweating and economic security from algebra?" I just wanna be either compensated for it or I wanna-
- KSKara Swisher
A- actually, it's a smarter way to get co- actually, now that you... 'Cause it used to be you sort of get a vig if they got, you pay pennies, and that was always so confusing. It is a smart way to get paid for content. I think the issue here is these two beasts fighting, AI beasts fighting each other. AI A- Amazon ha- has a ton of AI in it. So I use Amazon a lot, uh, much to my chagrin and my wife's chagrin. Uh, but it's really effective, and I'm not quite... I have to sort of stack rank the people I'm offended with in tech. Um, and it's m- I'm focused on Andy Jassy, not Jeff Bezos in this situation, um, which is a stupid excuse, I know. Um, but, uh, but they use a ton of AI, and I find myself using it more and more. Does this... Like, I just bought, it sounds silly, but I want my washers and dryers to move out so I could clean behind them 'cause I'm anal retentive. And I said, "Oh, does this hold this much weight?" Or, "What about this kind of washing machine I had?" And it answered me. It was like instead of me searching around, or, "How high is it off the ground?" And instead of me... I could have found it, but you'd have to sort of sort out, you know, scroll, scroll, scroll, click, click, click, essentially. And in this case, it answered in seconds. Um, the same thing with Muse. Have you downloaded Muse yet or not? You're the most promiscuous person on Earth on these things. Did you not download it yet?
- SGScott Galloway
That was a lot of meaning. Um, I haven't, but it's number one in the App Store, and I actually, I, I'm not sure, and I'm, I'm gonna think this through more. I wouldn't be surprised if Muse ends up being the biggest player in AI.
- KSKara Swisher
I would agree. I would agree. There's another company called Instinct, which is a smaller company that also gets... I was looking at the... Someone sent me a, a list of how good these things are, and Muse and Instinct rate at the top compared to all of them. Um, although I think you're gonna use AIs separately. Like, the Amazon AIs, I don't think Muse will be as helpful as the Amazon AI on what I'm buying, right? It might be okay, but com- I c- I get better information from Amazon. But it will be a race to see which AI you tend to use as a utility going forward. I just don't wanna give Mark Zuckerberg access to my email. I worry, what if I have an email i- in there that something about him that I'm working on? Or who knows? Like, I don't... I c- I can just imagine it, and that's my worry is who do you trust? Do you trust Apple? I don't trust Apple as much as I used to, that's for sure.
- SGScott Galloway
You shouldn't have to trust companies. You should trust regulators to make laws.
- 37:19 – 37:49
AI Slowdown Lawsuit
- KSKara Swisher
uh, AI, and Google are being sued by a group of AI subscribers who claim the companies illegally agreed to slow down AI development. The plaintiffs argue that a coordinated slowdown would hurt consumers by making products improve more slowly while subscribers keep paying the same price. It's, it, this is an innovative way to do this. Um, y- you know, th- th- they're facing heat everywhere. What, you slow down, speed up. We need, we are paying money for this stuff, good, good money for this stuff. Uh, it's gonna kill us, that kind of stuff. And in related news, uh, Donald
- 37:49 – 45:18
Trump’s AI Push
- KSKara Swisher
Trump says he's creating an AI force modeled on the Space Force while d- dismissing concerns about AI as a hoax. He's offered few details about his AI force. I think he just made it up in the middle of the night. It's unclear whether it would be military, civilian agency, how it would operate, or where funding would come from. Trump also says he'll name a new czar soon, a position previously held by David Sacks. And grift watch alert, as Trump pushes back on the calls for AI slowdown, he and his family are profiting from the AI boom, what a surprise, according to The Washington Post. By the way, even if Jeff Bezos is a coward, the Post news section is doing a great job. Trump's investment accounts have disclosed nearly 30,000 security transactions since his return to White House. Transactions include buying and selling shares in companies that provide the chip servers and energy powering AI. The White House says the investments are handled by independent managers. I'm sure he's in li- I'm sure it's the same, the same feeling of paying back the Russian, uh, person who paid for, uh, Donald Trump Jr.'s wedding. So talk a little bit of this. You've got the political part. You've got the lawsuits that go all kinds of ways. There's obviously the political elements of, of what's happening. Um, and then over in California, Gavin Newsom just issued an executive order to speed up two AI safety laws and explore required AI, requiring AI companies to build a kill switch. Talk about the, the, all this sort of shifting forces all over the place, whether it's legal, political, state.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, so a lot here. I, I think, I think they've mislabeled this. I don't think they should refer to it as a kill switch. I think we need circuit breakers, and there's just never been a need or a bigger wide space for a regulatory body to come in and have subpoena power, testing, and approval requirements, hold periods, the equivalent of the NTSB, that every inci- every incident you have to report immediately. We can absolute... I, I believe we can absolutely handle it. Um, uh, you know, so every CEO can believe AI is dangerous and still be rationally compelled to accelerate because this is, what is, this is, is the prisoner's dilemma, and I don't think a pause is realistic. I think the incentives are against that, and also, there are some really wonderful things happening with AI acceleration, including trying to address climate change. So the strange thing about the industry, the, the people building the bomb are also the ones telling us the bombs scare the shit out of them while investors ask for another $100 billion to build a bigger bomb before the other guy does, and that's why voluntary coordination just doesn't work here. It's economically unstable and why coordination would instantly create antitrust questions. The biggest opportunity for the Trump administration, which I think they'll miss, is a really thoughtful administration would've already had several hundred diplomats, economists, technologists on, from China and the US holed up somewhere in Alaska or in South Korea outlining a memo of understanding around cooperation around AI.
- KSKara Swisher
But what about this Space Force? He loves to have a Space Force or an AI force and a czar and this and that. This is a, this requires an enormous, as you said, coordination both domestically and internationally, and instead, he wants to have some guy in charge. Like, "This is my AI guy."
- SGScott Galloway
Some dude.
- KSKara Swisher
Like-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, that's loyal to me
- KSKara Swisher
... loyal to me, and is, like-
- SGScott Galloway
And that's gonna give me a good jacket and a good photo op
- KSKara Swisher
... so self-interested, like David Sacks has been. And then he himself is buying and selling stocks in this area. I mean, the fact, you know, the, the, the, the, um, crypto bill collapsed. The CLARITY Act just ab- There was a great story in, I think, The New York Times or The Wall Street Journal about the collapse of it, largely 'cause, one, Brian Armstrong, who was leading it at Coinbase, is a, is a horse's ass. That's one. And two, um, they couldn't, you know, the grift of Trump was so massive that it, that it gave Democrats an in to, like, torpedo it, and, and rightfully so because they wouldn't do the correct, um, you know, stopping, you know, this, this grifter family from taking things, and they're doing the exact same thing over in, um, over in, uh, in, uh, AI investments.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. So there's two things here. There's space, and there's, there's corruption. I think one of the biggest opportunities... So amongst the many existential threats facing Americans right now, I, I harken back to the days when the elevators were gonna stop and Y2K or Greek sovereign debt was supposedly gonna affect all of Europe and take the global economy down.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Remember Greek debt?
- SGScott Galloway
I, I, I long for the days of-
- KSKara Swisher
This is bigger
- SGScott Galloway
... of just people dying from COVID.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Right.
- SGScott Galloway
It just-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, God. Don't say that. God.
- SGScott Galloway
This is... Yeah, but I mean, think about this. E- every day it's a, a mass extinction event. And well, but one of those existential crises is, in fact, our debt, and I'm writing a lot about this right now. A third rail, everyone talks about the third rail of, of entitlements. We need to have a serious conversation around our military spending. And there is a big opportunity to take the one word that defines the Ukrainian and the war in Iran, and that is asymmetry, and figure out a way to partner with companies like Anduril and say, "Okay, Northrop Grumman and Boeing, i-i... There's just been so much creep." When you have a weapons program for a plane, which is a great plane, that's gonna cost $1.5 trillion, and the Pentagon hasn't passed an audit, let's think big. How could we take, how could we turn our, our military into the most lethal fighting force ever that costs $500 billion a year instead of $1.5 trillion? 'Cause the problem is, we associate that number with macho.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
And every Democrat is afraid-
- KSKara Swisher
Right
- SGScott Galloway
... to say, "Let's take it down to 1.49 'cause that means I don't have testicles."
- KSKara Swisher
Right. But, you know, it's, it's, it's Hegseth that's trying to integrate AI into it. It's just that he's a moron, and it's not the person you wanna be doing something so critic-
- SGScott Galloway
Well, that's a competence issue.
- KSKara Swisher
Right, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
But there is something about asymmetric warfare that leverages our unique advantage about our ability to haul stuff into space, our ability around connectivity, the fact that we have the best universities in the world looking at this stuff. And also, also, it might make sense to partner with the EU, Canada-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, that would be nice
- SGScott Galloway
... and possibly, possibly-
- KSKara Swisher
Ukraine
- SGScott Galloway
... China.
- 45:18 – 54:35
Anthropic’s IPO
- KSKara Swisher
Anthropic is reportedly pushing its IPO from October to November. Investors are talking about a potential $2 trillion valuation. Anthropic's expected to reach more than $100 billion in a- a- billion dollars in annualized revenue by the end of the year, up from 65 billion as of July. The company could publicly release financial documents about the offering as soon as a couple weeks from now. I'm sure you'll be poring over them. Those, those sources tell the Wall Street Journal the decision to aim for November was made before the former Anthropic researcher warned that AI companies are moving too fast. Give us some predictions. Will Anthropic's IPO really happen this year? Will it be bigger than SpaceX? It would be if that's the case. And also, there is... People feel like the latest version of ChatGPT is getting some real traction. I forget what it's called. They all have new fucking names. It drives me crazy. Um, but, uh, do you feel... What do you, how do you look at this? This is a shift, and it was, again, before this hair on fire stuff around, uh, this researcher. Let me just make one note. It's incred- I'm working on a book right now that, and I went back and found some old speeches of Sam Altman. 2015, he said virtually the same thing this researcher said. So it's, this is not new, a lot of these worries. He wrote an essay, the first sentence of which is essentially, "AI will kill all of humanity," or could kill all of humanity. Anyway, uh, what do you think about the Anthropic IPO? But let's buy some stocks, Scott. What do you think about it?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, so a $2 trillion valuation is what they're saying, and $100 billion run rate by the year, end of the year. It's not a company going public. It's a country's GDP going public, and that's why Trump has been so compromised. He wants a piece of it, and he sees it as more important. So he's like, "Distinctive extinction risk, existential risk, go baby, go." I doubt it gets done by the end of the year because of all of the different... Well, th- [sighs] I think they have to. I, to a certain extent, I don't wanna say I feel sorry for these guys, but they have their Series A, B, C, D, E, and F investors. Think, there, there are probably no less than 50 VCs who managed to get into the B or C round of Anthropic who are sitting on a septic tank of shit that just didn't work. And the difference between them raising Fund III and being a hero and being the guy who started a VC fund and it didn't work is whether this thing gets public at the valuation. So he's got... In addition, he probably has thousands of people who've put a down payment on a ridiculously overpriced house in San Francisco who borrowed from their in-laws saying, "Oh, it's gonna go public in three months and I'm gonna have $11 million." There are a lot of incentives for this guy to get public. At the same time, not having, not having put in place guardrails, not having put in place or understanding the regulatory framework. I mean, there's a lot of things that just say maybe a pause to slow down that gives them a chance to maybe kind of check back on the CapEx and report a quarter of increased, or gives people greater visibility into where they... They, they released one of these ridiculous WeWork-like EBITDA statements saying, "Well, if you don't look, if you take out inference and compute, we're profitable." It's like what, when WeWork tried to calculate EBITDA-
- KSKara Swisher
If you take out the flour, the bread is really, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Take out the, take out...
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
It's kind of like, uh, profits before any costs.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, it's just so stupid.
- KSKara Swisher
Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
Right? So it feels to me like he's got a lot on his plate to get a public offering done.
- KSKara Swisher
So you think a push, a push?
- SGScott Galloway
I, I gotta think that if it happens, it's gonna be Q1. This-
- KSKara Swisher
Do they do January-
- SGScott Galloway
We're running out of time
- KSKara Swisher
... Do they do January IPOs? I, I don't recall a lot, Jimmy
- SGScott Galloway
I don't see why not.
- KSKara Swisher
Well, I know, but I don't recall a lot. Like, is it more March, or?
- SGScott Galloway
I don't, I don't-- I-- The, the honest answer, Kara, is I don't know. Um
- KSKara Swisher
I mean, that's a lot of pent-up... That could really be bad if-- especially if the stock market blows, which, you know. A lot of the stock people feel like they're calling for these slowdowns in order to catch up, right? Like, that it's all a feint versus-
- SGScott Galloway
I think they've got a... I, I just, uh... Going public in the midst of insecurity about a mass extinction event?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I agree. It's kinda-
- SGScott Galloway
It feels-- I mean, let me put it this way. You know what I'm really excited? I'm really excited to read a section in the S1 called "Risks."
- KSKara Swisher
"Risks." [laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, how are they gonna, how are they gonna outline this risk?
- KSKara Swisher
Well, um, the thing is, both Altman and Amodei have so much... I, I've just been digging into stuff from 10 years ago. Uh, 'cause I had said, uh, on the stage at Atlantic this week, I was at The Atlantic Conference, which was an excellent conference, by the way, um, that, like, I was at dinner parties where they were all saying these things, like, very clearly. Like, everyone-- I was like, "I don't know why this, this young researcher suddenly got to everyone," but these guys were saying it. And then I went and found a lot of their early writings, and it, it literally says, "Probably it'll kill us. This is how much it'll kill us. The thing we'll probably die from is this." Like, they have so much history of this that it's really... You know, I just wanna make sure I was... I mean, I remember these dinner parties. Um, but at the time it was speculative, right? Bef- and now they, I guess, are seeing some proof, whether it's Google jumping out of the sandbox or them jumping out of the sandbox. They haven't yet gotten to a missile silo, but it's only five minutes till that. So it'll be interesting. So, so you think it's gonna push till next... Will it be that big? Will be there-- Will there be a lot of demand for this?
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, God, yes. I mean, I keep hearing the numbers are doubling every month, and I'm going back to this big-
- KSKara Swisher
You'll buy it.
- SGScott Galloway
If I could get on the IPO-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... I would buy it and then flip it on the first trade, yeah.
- 54:35 – 1:04:03
Trump–Xi Summit
- KSKara Swisher
gets ready to meet with Chinese President Xi Jinping in DC this week. A coalition of automakers and dealers is asking him to keep Chinese cars out of the country. That's a damn shame, 'cause they're adorable. The group urged Trump in a letter to keep the door firmly shut to Chinese automakers, raising concerns about job loss and national security. They should be concerned. Again, these models are fantastic. Trump recently said he'd be open to Chinese companies building cars here as long as they hire American workers, which they've done, many foreign countries have done before. One more wrinkle, Xi is expected to bring a group of Chinese business leaders with him to the US, and might include the founder of Chinese EV giant BYD. Of course he would. Thoughts about this? Uh, do you think it's, um- What do you think is gonna happen here? I don't think there's gonna be a discussion of, say, AI safety is my guess, or it's not gonna be a significant one.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I think he'll be more focused on claiming stupid shit like, "I've got more tariffs, and we're gonna give people 5,000 bucks back." I, I, I'm... Like, Detroit wants to summon its diplomatic cooperation, right? They want some sort of a stable truth, or they want protection. And asking Xi to show up as a bonobo and negotiate as a chimp, so to speak, I don't... Look, I hate to say this. I b- when I was in a BYD in, in Brazil-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. They're everywhere
- SGScott Galloway
... and, and I got in, and I thought, "Oh, this is a Model Y," or whatever. He says, "No, it's a BYD." And I said, "How much is it?" And he s- he said, he figured out, and it was, like, 14 or $16,000. I'm like, "We're fucked." And just as we-
- KSKara Swisher
I f- thought the same thing when I saw them
- SGScott Galloway
... [laughs] my first big consulting, this was the best engagement in the world. When, when I was right out of business school, I met a guy named Warren Hellman, and he said, "I've got a great assignment for you. I want you to come to every Levi Strauss & Company board meeting. I don't want you to sit next to anybody. I don't want you to talk to anybody. I want you to listen for two days, and then I want you to stand up and tell us exactly what you think." I was 27.
- KSKara Swisher
Wow.
- SGScott Galloway
This was the, this was the best consulting engagement in history.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs] That's why-
- SGScott Galloway
And-
- KSKara Swisher
... you're the way that you are. Go ahead
- SGScott Galloway
... that's why I'm the way that I am. I remember this. We were in Singapore, and they were having this big debate about continuing to manufacture Levi's in the South. And I said, "Uh, okay, all this is is a transfer of wealth from your shareholders to the good people in those factories." But I said, "I know how this story ends. In 10 years, you're not gonna be manufacturing denim in the United States because you will eventually opt for shareholder value and reinvest in places with higher paid jobs and grow your company." I, for the first time, I'm beginning to believe that American cars are Levi's. I don't know if we're gonna be manufacturing them in 20 years. When I look at the cars coming out of China, and the... They have cars now that can go 600 miles without a charge.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Are 0 to 60 in two and a half seconds. And-
- KSKara Swisher
All manner of gee-gaws on them that are fun. Like, all manner of fun features
- SGScott Galloway
... and cost, uh, uh, cost $40,000, and they're the equivalent, right?
- KSKara Swisher
And there are some that are, that are six and 7,000. Remember, I bought my-
- SGScott Galloway
But-
- KSKara Swisher
I don't know what your first car cost, but I had a Honda Civic for $6,000, 7,000. I f- something like that. Real cheap.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, God, I've had so many bad cars.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I had a Volkswagen Rabbit. Then I had a Renault Le Car.
- KSKara Swisher
I had a Rabbit.
- SGScott Galloway
Then I had a Chevy g- Chevelle Malib-
- KSKara Swisher
Rabais. I had a Rabais
- SGScott Galloway
... Convertible. Then I had a BMW 318i.
- KSKara Swisher
Wow, you moved up. I, well, I went down.
- SGScott Galloway
Anyways, I kept-
- KSKara Swisher
You went up, and I [laughs] went down
- SGScott Galloway
... I kept going, I, I kept going up and up the food chain.
- 1:04:03 – 1:13:14
Wins and Fails
- KSKara Swisher
Amazon cancel Ride or Die, uh, with Hannah Waddingham and Octavia Spencer? It was their number one show. Someone buy it. Apple, I don't care. It's such a good show, and it was-- Like, ladies with guns are my favorite thing. That was a fail. Another fail was, uh, obviously all the quislings that went along with Trump on the First Amendment stuff. If you, y-you know, you better like the First Amendment 'cause it's coming for you if you don't protect it. That's the number one amendment, and you should protect it above all things. Of, of the many rights we have, it's the m- one of the m- that First Amendment, with lots of stuff in there, is the most important of all of them. Um, and the last one is this insane fucking... I live in Washington. I'm getting a little sick of this, President Trump. You're making a mess of everything, but your planned 250-foot triumphal arch that is gonna be on my way to the airport, which I already have to see your big-ass golden, uh, horses, which is irritating enough, will now double as a military complex 'cause nothing says democracy like housing drone snipers and large amounts of ammunition in your monuments. I just don't know what to say. This is insane if we let him build this. Um, I hope we stop him. Same thing with the Kennedy Center. There was a lot of people... Uh, just the, the whole manner of things is just a massive fail here. Um, and so I just... I, I don't know what to say about it, but I hope there's enough legal moves to stop him from doing all these manners of things 'cause it really is, again, working my last nerve. Scott?
- SGScott Galloway
I have two wins and a fail. My first win is New York. I spent the entire weekend here, did my favorite thing, roamed around. Jack's wife, Frida. Bought T-shirts at, at James Perse, sunglasses at Warby Parker, shoes at On. Uh, uh, went to Blank Street Coffee and mocked all the, all the Gen Z'ers or whoever they're called, waiting in line two hours for, for, for yogurt at this weird place called Mimi's.
- KSKara Swisher
Mixu.
- SGScott Galloway
New York or nowhere-
- KSKara Swisher
Mixu
- SGScott Galloway
... has a line of an hour. I'm telling you, Kara.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
You don't recognize you're in a golden age when you're in it.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
This is a golden age in New York.
- KSKara Swisher
Really packed.
- SGScott Galloway
It is-
- KSKara Swisher
I was there too
- SGScott Galloway
... packed.
- KSKara Swisher
Crazy packed.
- SGScott Galloway
Packed.
- KSKara Swisher
Everywhere.
- SGScott Galloway
Last year-
- KSKara Swisher
Everywhere
- SGScott Galloway
... last year, 65 million people visited New York, $80 billion in economic activity. It supports 400,000 jobs. It used to be 54% of New York's economy. Now it's 60%. Uh, we've created one, 1 million jobs since COVID. There's always an asterisk. Most of those jobs are healthcare, so most of the jobs are looking after old people. But wow, has this... I went to, I went to Sartiano's. I went to, as usual, Zero Bond and Chez Margaux. Everything is packed. Everyone is friendly. No one's at home planning the extinction of the human species. People are not at home gambling on whether the Fed raises interest rates.
- KSKara Swisher
Also, neighborhoods that are usually quiet are down near the, um, the memorial. I was down there. Tons of people.
- SGScott Galloway
We had that festival, San Geronimo, whatever the fuck it is. I, I went there, and I bought baked oysters. I mean, it just... It, it-- Or fried oysters. The, the city, the city, uh, uh, the Disneyland of democracy and capitalism right now is New York.
- KSKara Swisher
Mom Dani.
- SGScott Galloway
And it is wonderful.
- KSKara Swisher
He's-- Trump is visiting his, his best friend.
- SGScott Galloway
It's, it's got absolutely to do with nothing with Mom Dani.
- KSKara Swisher
No, I know it doesn't, but I'm just saying he gets the credit.
- SGScott Galloway
Um-
- KSKara Swisher
He'll get the credit for it.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, okay, fine. He d- uh, he'll get the credit.
Episode duration: 1:13:14
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