Why Scott Galloway Pulled the Plug on AI Bot | Pivot

Scott Galloway 0:00 I'm worried that if I created an ability to have a dialogue with me, that it might some day reduce a young man's motivation and mojo to establish mentorships in the real world.

Kara Swisher 0:13 Could they make Scott AI be more of an asshole? Like, so that it's more like regular life?

Scott Galloway 0:18 (laughs)

Narrator 0:23 (instrumental music)

Kara Swisher 0:25 Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway 0:31 Can you get over how excited people are about our tour?

Kara Swisher 0:34 I know, they are. Let's discuss it.

Scott Galloway 0:37 Oh, my God.

Kara Swisher 0:37 Let's discuss it. We're selling very brisk ticket sales, it looks like.

Scott Galloway 0:40 Yeah. We're already, I think, like, half sold out in San Francisco.

Kara Swisher 0:43 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 0:43 I think that's mostly because of you.

Kara Swisher 0:45 Yeah. Yeah, and-

Scott Galloway 0:46 More people are showing up to-

Kara Swisher 0:46 ... Toronto.

Scott Galloway 0:47 ... the tackle. Toronto?

Kara Swisher 0:48 Go ... Toronto. We're almost ... We're like half sold out there. More than half sold out there.

Scott Galloway 0:52 So just to remind people, DC, New York, Toronto, Chicago, San Francisco, LA. Did I miss anything?

Kara Swisher 0:59 No. I don't think so. I ... Uh, wait-

Scott Galloway 1:01 You don't think so?

Kara Swisher 1:01 Seven. Sh- Chicago.

Scott Galloway 1:02 The best comment though-

Kara Swisher 1:04 What?

Scott Galloway 1:04 ... when we announced it was, "Just say it, you hate Arizona." (laughs)

Kara Swisher 1:07 Yeah. I know. People got mad.

Scott Galloway 1:09 You fucking hate Arizona.

Kara Swisher 1:09 Other cities got mad at us. We'll come to those cities.

Scott Galloway 1:12 Yeah. Yeah.

Kara Swisher 1:12 We will come to those cities, which w- I think we probably should've included another Midwestern city besides Chicago.

Scott Galloway 1:18 No, no, no, no.

Kara Swisher 1:18 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:19 The biggest mid is M- the biggest miss is Miami.

Kara Swisher 1:21 Miami.

Scott Galloway 1:21 Daddy loves the hotties.

Kara Swisher 1:22 Yes, you're right.

Scott Galloway 1:23 Come on, bring it on.

Kara Swisher 1:23 Miami would be good. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:25 Miami would bring 'em.

Kara Swisher 1:25 But we should go to s- well, except if we go to some city, they're like, "Who the fuck are you?" Like, that would be ... There are so many cities that would be like that, like Altoona, Pennsylvania, for example.

Scott Galloway 1:33 Yeah. I think that's mostly cities that aren't on the coast with, like, a ton of liberal universities.

Kara Swisher 1:38 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:38 "I love Kara Swisher. She's my hero."

Kara Swisher 1:40 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:41 "She's here, quote-unquote, 'teaching' and that is telling war stories about how awesome she is for 20 minutes."

Kara Swisher 1:46 (laughs) No. No.

Scott Galloway 1:48 Yeah. Oh, my God.

Kara Swisher 1:48 That's not how I'm teaching. No, in fact-

Scott Galloway 1:50 Oh, my God.

Kara Swisher 1:50 ... the school s- complimented me 'cause she said, "All these people who do these kind of things come in and tell war stories," and I don't. I talk to the students and engage them on the topics of the day. It's like a mini Pivot. Like, we talked about the comedy thing.

Scott Galloway 2:03 Mini Pivot. Oh, that sounds compelling.

Kara Swisher 2:04 We talked about so- it is.

Scott Galloway 2:05 Except they're paying $7,000. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 2:07 No. No, it's good. It's a good course.

Scott Galloway 2:09 No, no.

Kara Swisher 2:09 I'm doing a good job.

Scott Galloway 2:09 I love famous teachers. They always have a lot of value.

Kara Swisher 2:10 I also get to hang out with Alex. I have a fascinating-

Scott Galloway 2:13 And they get to tell pe-

Kara Swisher 2:14 Go.

Scott Galloway 2:14 They tell people to follow their passion after they're already rich, after they've made their billions-

Kara Swisher 2:17 You know, don't even talk to me.

Scott Galloway 2:17 ... in iron ore smelting.

Kara Swisher 2:19 E- let me just say, you have the profess- you have Prof G and you haven't been inside a classroom in what, 69 years or something like that?

Scott Galloway 2:25 I taught a class the other day.

Kara Swisher 2:26 When? Where?

Scott Galloway 2:26 Stop it.

Kara Swisher 2:27 Where? Where?

Scott Galloway 2:27 For a section, my AI, uh, upskilling thing.

Kara Swisher 2:29 Yes, but not at a university, correct?

Scott Galloway 2:32 No, I've been at ... Uh, I've been at Oxford recently.

Kara Swisher 2:35 Okay.

Scott Galloway 2:36 I'm, I'm going to King's College soon. I'm-

Kara Swisher 2:38 Uh-huh.

Scott Galloway 2:38 I'm still g- I still show up in classrooms.

Kara Swisher 2:40 I know. But the, the university you're assigned to, you w- you have not gone to.

Scott Galloway 2:43 Oh, them.

Kara Swisher 2:44 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 2:44 New York University.

Kara Swisher 2:45 Yeah. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 2:45 It's amazing they still keep me on faculty.

Kara Swisher 2:47 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 2:47 I think it's 'cause ... You know why they do? I'm mentioned more in applications than any other prof at this point.

Kara Swisher 2:51 Oh, of course you are. You're very popular. You're very p- you're a popular professor.

Scott Galloway 2:53 And then they show up and get pissed off I'm not there-

Kara Swisher 2:56 Yeah, I know.

Scott Galloway 2:56 ... and write letters to the administration.

Kara Swisher 2:57 I'll tell you why. W- have you thought about doing a course there or not? You just talked-

Scott Galloway 3:00 Yeah, when I move back, I'll start teaching again.

Kara Swisher 3:01 Y- oh, good. Oh, that'll be nice. You know, they tried-

Scott Galloway 3:04 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 3:04 ... to give me the professor d- designation on the syllabus and I took it off. I didn't feel like I deserved it.

Scott Galloway 3:08 'Cause you're so humble.

Kara Swisher 3:09 No.

Scott Galloway 3:09 That's what people know you for, is your humility.

Kara Swisher 3:11 (laughs) Little hostile take. You know why I think you're hostile? Because most people agreed with me on the comic thing. Did you notice in the comments?

Scott Galloway 3:17 Uh, on Kimmel?

Kara Swisher 3:18 Team Kara. No, on the, on the, on the comics that went, uh, uh ... Well, you know, the place where you're gonna laugh your head off. (laughs) Saudi Arabia.

Scott Galloway 3:26 Oh, Riyadh? Oh, what a shocker.

Kara Swisher 3:29 Yeah. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 3:29 The, the wokesters weighed in. I love-

Kara Swisher 3:31 No. No.

Scott Galloway 3:31 I love how people are virtuous with other people's money.

Kara Swisher 3:34 No. N- whenever you lose a- an argument, you always are like, "It's the wokesters." Instead of-

Scott Galloway 3:38 It's bots. No, I c- I blame it on Russian bots.

Kara Swisher 3:40 Bots.

Scott Galloway 3:40 That's my go-to.

Kara Swisher 3:41 No, they were like, "Scott, what?"

Scott Galloway 3:42 Well, should we pull out our military bases?

Kara Swisher 3:44 I th- look-

Scott Galloway 3:45 Or the universities there?

Kara Swisher 3:46 You know what?

Scott Galloway 3:46 What should we do?

Kara Swisher 3:47 I-

Scott Galloway 3:47 What should we do?

Kara Swisher 3:48 I think com- I told you, comics never been special.

Scott Galloway 3:50 But no, don't let Bill Burr go. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 3:51 No. Actually, you know what? He had the lamest excuse. I have to say, I was sort of like-

Scott Galloway 3:56 What did he say?

Kara Swisher 3:57 He was like ba-

Scott Galloway 3:57 Why doesn't he just say, "I want the money"?

Kara Swisher 3:58 He didn't. He was like, he was like, "I really think ... They're, you know, they're regular people. They have McDonald's there, literally."

Scott Galloway 4:05 Ah.

Kara Swisher 4:05 I was like, "You're stupid now? You're an idiot?"

Scott Galloway 4:07 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 4:07 Like, he's like, "Oh, my goodness, they're not on camels." I'm like, "No. They're the richest people on the fucking planet, my friends."

Scott Galloway 4:15 Ah, I'm going to Al Ula, one of the coolest tourist places of, or-

Kara Swisher 4:18 Yeah. Good.

Scott Galloway 4:19 ... sites in the world. I love the people there.

Kara Swisher 4:21 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 4:22 I'm, I want Americans to move there and make a shit ton of money. I wanna secure our fossil fuel energy-

Kara Swisher 4:27 Mm-hmm. You do that.

Scott Galloway 4:27 ... pipeline. If, if Israel-

Kara Swisher 4:29 Mr. Diplomacy.

Scott Galloway 4:29 ... and the kingdom normalize relations, it'll be like the Iron Dome for Israel. MBS is keeping the fucking crazies unline- in line.

Kara Swisher 4:38 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 4:38 Unlike some of the others. They're reforming like crazy. I am-

Kara Swisher 4:40 They ... Well, that's 'cause he's brutal. Um, the game-

Scott Galloway 4:42 I am going to bear hug the kingdom.

Kara Swisher 4:44 No.

Scott Galloway 4:44 Invite me, I'm in.

Kara Swisher 4:46 Oh, my God. I'm not going. You know, when I wrote that piece about them in the New York Times many years ago about-

Scott Galloway 4:51 Well.

Kara Swisher 4:52 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 4:52 Are you teaching a class at Michigan right now? "Well, I'm glad you asked that. When I wrote a piece in The Atlantic-"

Kara Swisher 4:57 (laughs) Let me just say, uh, you, as, you-

Scott Galloway 4:59 "... as I was touching myself to Rachel Maddow-"

Kara Swisher 5:01 ... you are so insecure. You're so wildly insecure.

Scott Galloway 5:03 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 5:03 Anyway, I wrote a piece about why are there still investing-

Scott Galloway 5:06 Have you seen me naked? It's common sense I'm insecure.

Kara Swisher 5:08 Right? Uh, I haven't seen you naked and this is something-

Scott Galloway 5:11 That's right. You haven't.

Kara Swisher 5:11 ... that's, that's gonna be pa- part of our tour, is me seeing you naked. Um, I actually have seen you partially naked many times, unfortunately.

Scott Galloway 5:17 So has everyone else.

Kara Swisher 5:18 I know. That's true. So, n- but not the full monte. I have not seen the full monte yet. I hope not t-

Scott Galloway 5:23 Daddy brings the egg salad.

Kara Swisher 5:24 Not t-

Scott Galloway 5:24 But the good egg salad with the little bits of bacon and the mayonnaise.

Kara Swisher 5:27 I do not wanna see the full monte. Let me finish my point.

Scott Galloway 5:28 I'm sorry, go ahead.

Kara Swisher 5:29 I wrote a piece about h- why tech went to, uh, get money from, uh, the Gulf right after Khashoggi, right? It was immediately after Khashoggi.

Scott Galloway 5:38 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 5:38 And I was like, "Can't they go to Singapore? Can't they go to ... Like, there's so many other choices and stuff." And it was a really interesting debate 'cause a lot of people in Silicon Valley, also, very similar to this, were like, "We shouldn't be g- taking money from them. We should be taking money from Singapore." Whatever.

Scott Galloway 5:50 No, I, I agree. When they murder a journalist, we should-

Kara Swisher 5:52 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 5:52 ... make our companies less competitive and reduce the prosperity of people-

Kara Swisher 5:55 Oh, my God. In, in any case. Uh-

Scott Galloway 5:56 ... working for those companies.

Kara Swisher 5:57 You know, they dismembered him and, like, took video of it, but-

Scott Galloway 5:59 He murdered him. I d- I, I acknowledge that.

Kara Swisher 6:02 All right, let me finish.

Scott Galloway 6:02 I think they paid-

Kara Swisher 6:03 But-

Scott Galloway 6:03 I think it was a stupid, vile thing to do.

Kara Swisher 6:05 Yes. Okay. They've done a lot of stupid, vile things. So, um, so, th- so, my point is, I was, I, uh, I was ... Someone, uh, contacted me from, uh, Saudi, people who knew the Saudis were like, "Don't go to Saudi Arabia, Kara Swisher." (laughs) I was like, "Okay." 'Cause I called him a thug.

Scott Galloway 6:21 But just a quick question.

Kara Swisher 6:22 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 6:22 How many kids will be shot in Saudi schools today?

Kara Swisher 6:25 Oh my God, stop it. Don't do the that thing.

Scott Galloway 6:27 How many-

Kara Swisher 6:27 Don't do it.

Scott Galloway 6:28 How many people in the kingdom do not have healthcare?

Kara Swisher 6:30 We do... We are not the same. We are not the same. We are not.

Scott Galloway 6:32 How many, how many people in the kingdom are gonna go bankrupt when they find out their wife has lung cancer?

Kara Swisher 6:34 How many women are allowed to do everything, eh, that they're supposed to?

Scott Galloway 6:38 They have-

Kara Swisher 6:38 How many gay people get to survive? Scott, we're not doing this.

Scott Galloway 6:41 They have shame, they have absolute a gender apartheid-

Kara Swisher 6:44 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 6:45 ... and it's terrible and the only good thing you can say about it-

Kara Swisher 6:48 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 6:48 ... but you need to acknowledge it, is it's headed in the right direction.

Kara Swisher 6:51 Sure, yes.

Scott Galloway 6:51 And our gender apartheid is headed in the wrong direction in this country.

Kara Swisher 6:54 Yes, that is correct, but we're still far apart. I'm sorry. You're not gonna-

Scott Galloway 6:57 Agreed. Agreed.

Kara Swisher 6:57 I'm sorry, the United States is, even in the state it's in, is, is-

Scott Galloway 7:01 I'm not even getting paid to be a mouthpiece for the kingdom.

Kara Swisher 7:03 Drastically... I know, you really are. You should get a check.

Scott Galloway 7:04 Somebody send me a check.

Kara Swisher 7:05 Send him a check. You're gonna get into s-... The comments, everyone, all the woke commenters, we're gonna move on. But nonetheless, I am correct and I won the fight. And I am right. And I think in your heart of hearts-

Scott Galloway 7:15 Yeah, my tagline should be, my tagline should be, "I don't read the comments."

Kara Swisher 7:18 (laughs) "I don't read the c-" You do read the comments, though. Um, I think that, uh, it was a good debate, and I think you know in your heart of hearts that it was kind of skymy for those, for the comics to do it. I'm not, I'm not thrilled with a military base, I'm not thrilled, but I get it. But comic, com... To sign, like, a censorship thing, I'm gonna just stick with my guns on this. Anyway, we have a lot to get to today. I'm gonna b- have the last word there. Including OpenAI launching a new video app. That's actually fascinating, what's been going on. Pete Hegseth, of course, ranting at top military officials about beards and outfits. Uh, but

Kara Swisher 7:52 first, the US government officially shut down this week, kind of a big deal, after Congress failed to reach a deal on funding. As of this recording, it doesn't look like this is getting settled any time soon. The White House is now withholding billions of dollars in funding for Democratic-led states and preparing to carry out massive layoffs. Democrats are calling Trump erratic and unhinged, he does seem a little bit more so, and say he's more focused on posting deepfake videos of Hakeem Jeffries in sombreros than negotiating. Meanwhile, about 750,000 federal workers are expected to be furloughed and services across the government are being disrupted. The Bureau of Labor Statistics is s- suspending operations, so no jobs reports and other key economic data for the time being. They're also targeting blue states. Ro- Ross Perot is saying it explicitly. Um, I, I, I'm gonna ask your overall thoughts and the best messaging for both parties right now, and, uh, and the polit- and I'd love to hear fr- your thoughts on the political economic consequences. But I did, uh, talk to some Trump people yesterday, some of the more reasonable Trump people. And, um, which there are, there are indeed, I hate to tell you, but there are. Um, and they were slightly worried because the crazies have taken over in the Trump White House, and they were talking about things like, this was crazy, that it should last 47 days because that's the number, that's the number of his presidency. They're like, they're like Taylor Swift, they're like Swifties, these people. They're like, they're interested in numbers. Um, and that they're very, uh, interested in a full, um... Uh, they're talking about a full, like, sort of prostration of Democrats. Some of the reasonable Trumpies are worried that nothing's gonna happen. And of course everyone alludes to his mental issues, like that he's really losing a step or two, it's been noticeable in several of his appearances. Um, so anyway, so that was kind of frightening to think about, like, sort of the, the, the crazier people in charge of the situation with no interest in negotiating. Go ahead, Scott.

Scott Galloway 9:50 Well, generally speaking, the American people do not like shutdowns as a means of negotiation over pollic- policy and spending. Their attitude is, and I think this is the right, uh, or, uh, an understandable viewpoint, is that you're supposed to figure this out at the ballot box, negotiations on legislative process. You're not supposed to be taking the budget and the operations of the country and the livelihood of government workers hostage. And it has not worked in the past. The, the last couple shutdowns were threats from the Republicans who wanted funding for a wall or wanted cuts to Obamacare, and they blinked because the nation said squarely, "Don't use this as a tool for, uh, negotiating public policy." Having said that-

Kara Swisher 10:36 Can I just make a note? The last three have been under Trump, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 10:39 The last three have been under Trump.

Kara Swisher 10:40 The last three shutdowns have been under Trump. But go ahead.

Scott Galloway 10:43 So anyways, my point is these things don't usually work and Americans aren't fond of using this as a political cudgel or, or, or wrench. Having said that, and there might be some bias here, I think if you look at the, if you look at the surveys, the majority of the blame so far is being levied at Republicans. Or more blame, I should say. It's like 34 to 24. And the Democrats here in the leadership are being shockingly strategic.

Kara Swisher 11:13 Explain.

Scott Galloway 11:13 They're not saying, "Oh no, we, we want to renegotiate the tariff nonsense," or, "We want you to stop these, rounding up people with IS-" They have been very pointed. "We want you to extend subsidies so people can have healthcare." Potentially millions of Americans are gonna see their healthcare become unaffordable and it's gonna primarily target the most needy. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Democrats' demand around that would have more impact positively, if they get what they want, on Republicans. So I think they are strategically going after an issue that is both the moral high ground and a function of affordability and likely to divide the Republican base.

Kara Swisher 11:56 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 11:56 And in addition, the Democrats were just screaming out with two words, three words, "Do fucking something."

Kara Swisher 12:04 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 12:04 This is something.

Kara Swisher 12:05 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 12:06 This is saying, "Okay, sorry, you've gotta come to the table."

Kara Swisher 12:09 Right.

Scott Galloway 12:09 So I, I actually think this is strategically, and again, there's a lot of, a lot of bad things about this, but keep in mind folks, when the Republicans say-... if they continue to do this, if they continue this battle, we're gonna fire people, not because those people don't add value, not because those people aren't important to landing planes safely on runways, not because those people aren't important to defend our shores, not because those people don't ensure that lower and middle income people can e- can enjoy one of the great assets of the Earth, and that is our national parks. We're taking the Hamas approach, and we're just gonna embed them in this fight, even if they get killed or put out a word- uh, put out of work. That is just a pure collateral damage hostage strategy. They have said to Democrats, "If you do this, we're gonna start firing innocents." Just-

Kara Swisher 13:03 And also we're gonna target your stuff. It's explicitly political.

Scott Galloway 13:07 Yeah. It's-

Kara Swisher 13:07 It's explicitly-

Scott Galloway 13:08 They're embedding government workers-

Kara Swisher 13:10 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 13:10 ... in the midst of the f- of the firefight for no other reason than they say, "They'll be martyrs on behalf of our great Republican battle."

Kara Swisher 13:18 Which some of them want, let's be clear. Let me just say, some of them, I mean, you can see Russell Vought getting hard on about firing people and getting rid of government. It's very clear. Uh, same thing with Stephen Miller, who's demented. He gave a demented speech about immigrants the other day. Another, uh, more demented, and let me just caveat that. Um, d- when... Think about the messaging so far. Now, uh, I sent you the Bernie Sanders and AOC one, which I thought was adorable.

Scott Galloway 13:42 Great messaging. Yeah.

Kara Swisher 13:43 Great messaging. Um, they looked terrific together. They were very articulate about what they want. This is all we want, was people shouldn't have their healthcare doubled in price, right? It was pretty clear and, um, uh, p- pretty clear, essentially. What is the next step to do? Because I think that, you know, John Thune is sort of puffing at his ch- who seems to be a reasonable person away from Trump, right? He seems to be one of your typical decent legis- uh, decent legislators w- who has been pretzeled in the Trump administration. Um, but he's sort of going, "Yeah, we're not doing anything." Like, they're... I mean, I know that's a posture. And I'm not a particularly good negotiator 'cause I'm like, "This is what I want. This is what I want. I just want this. Thank you." Um, I'm not strategic that way or tactic- tac- tactical, I guess. But he's- he's t- sort of doing the posturing. And I- I think, f- from talking to some Trump people, there's a group in the White House which is like, "Let's let it last forever." Like, "This is great."

Scott Galloway 14:38 Mm-hmm-

Kara Swisher 14:38 Like, they're very-

Scott Galloway 14:38 Mm-hmm-

Kara Swisher 14:38 ... they're- they're giddy about it.

Scott Galloway 14:39 The anti-government techno-libertarians.

Kara Swisher 14:41 Right.

Scott Galloway 14:41 Just let it all burn down.

Kara Swisher 14:42 Yeah, but-

Scott Galloway 14:42 Let's start over.

Kara Swisher 14:43 Yes, exactly. And so how do you- how do they thread that needle? What- what... He's saying, "We're not n- gonna negotiate until we're- the government is open again, and then we'll do- we'll cover this." And the Democrats should be saying, "We don't trust you," essentially, correct? I mean, I- I don't know. What- what- what would be the posture for each of them going forward?

Scott Galloway 15:05 Well, uh, so, I'm a big fan of Senator Thune's.

Kara Swisher 15:08 Mm-hmm-

Scott Galloway 15:08 Mostly because he's just very handsome and in great shape.

Kara Swisher 15:10 Yes, I thought so.

Scott Galloway 15:11 But also-

Kara Swisher 15:11 His hair.

Scott Galloway 15:12 ... he does- he does strike me... I've actually met the senator. I think he's a reasonable guy. He obviously has conservative values, represents, you know, a conservative state, South Dakota. But he is a rea- he's in the seat he should be. And I think he will be a productive member, uh, productive majority leader, and a productive, hopefully someday minority leader. The- what I would do, and I had a phone call on this last night, is I would take, uh, US Senators and... So- so Senator Warner did a great job. Someone, and it might've even been a Planner question, saying, "Why are you- why- why do you continue to advocate for giving healthcare to illegal aliens?" And he immediately said, and this is what is so just e- mendacious about the Republican talking points right now. "Folks, we are not gonna have a country, we're not gonna have a democracy, we're gonna turn to Ouija boards and horoscopes if there is not an objective truth. And the objective truth is there is no law or legislation in effect or being pr- proposed that would give health insurance to illegal aliens." And yet Speaker Johnson continues to go on these shows and say this lie. And then they fact check him, and he just starts talking about, "Well, a- no, that's not true." And it's like, "Well, okay, Speaker, um, Speaker Johnson, you didn't answer the question because you know you're lying, and also, what do we want? We want people dying in the streets? Oh, I'm sorry. I- you don't have an effective visa, we're gonna let you bleed out here in the parking lot." So, uh, Senator Warner immediately said, "The premise of your question is factually incorrect. No one is proposing or asking for coverage for illegal, uh, immigrants." What they should be doing, and my advice to the person I was speaking to in comms yesterday, I would take your- I would literally send 500... (laughs) you know, what is it, 535 Congress people out to- out to districts, specifically Republican districts, and I would interview people on their porches who clearly look, smell, and feel Republican, and talk to them about what it would mean if their premiums for Obamacare double.

Kara Swisher 17:31 Right. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 17:31 I'd go right into enemy territory-

Kara Swisher 17:34 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 17:34 ... quote unquote.

Kara Swisher 17:35 You know that's what Bernie and AOC are about to do, don't you?

Scott Galloway 17:37 And go right in and say, "Hi, who are you?" "I'm so-and-so. I'm a single mother. I struggle with diabetes. My kid has cerebral par- palsy. I don't know what I'm gonna do."

Kara Swisher 17:47 Right.

Scott Galloway 17:47 "I don't know what I'm gonna do." I would go right into the deepest reddest states, which by the way, tend to be the ones that need the most-

Kara Swisher 17:54 That's right.

Scott Galloway 17:55 ... federal funding.

Kara Swisher 17:56 That's right. Right.

Scott Galloway 17:57 And make it very human. "Well, who did you vote for last time?" All of them are gonna say Trump. "Okay, fine, let's get that out of the way. Tell us about your healthcare. Tell us about what would happen to you if this resolution goes through and there's not an agreement to r- keep the tax credits or funding for Obamacare premiums. What would happen to you-"

Kara Swisher 18:22 Right.

Scott Galloway 18:22 "... and your children?"

Kara Swisher 18:23 They stop eating, essentially.

Scott Galloway 18:24 And- and then- and then show their- show their Trump flags. We are in Trump country.... because the, the smartest thing about, I think, what, what, uh, uh, Leader Jeffries and, and, uh, Senate Minority Leader Schumer are doing is they're fighting over a topic that's gonna divide Republicans.

Kara Swisher 18:44 So let me ask you another question, because one of the t- other talking points is that Schumer is doing this at the behest of the left. He's being... He's, he's worried about being primaried by AOC. Um, and so they're, they're pulling, they're, they're being pushed into the shutdown by the left. That's... I've just noticed that one, uh, as, as a big talking point.

Scott Galloway 19:04 I don't... I, I... It's hard for me to relate to, quote unquote, "the other side." I don't think that's a very effective talking point. I mean-

Kara Swisher 19:09 What is their most effective talking point, then? What would you do if you're the Republicans?

Scott Galloway 19:14 The most effective talking point is, is the following, that shutdowns are not meant to be taken... The government is not meant to be taken hostage. We negotiate policy, policy in the chambers of Congress and at the voting... at the ballot box.

Kara Swisher 19:27 Which Thune was saying.

Scott Galloway 19:29 That's, that's their most effective message. I hate to say it, uh, i- if it were true, providing healthcare to illegal immigrants would be an effective talking point. I think the Democrats and the media has done their job here. I thought George Stephanopoulos was actually quite strong on this. He just pushed back and said, "That is not true. That is just not true." So I think that's gotten out there, that-

Kara Swisher 19:49 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 19:49 ... it's not true.

Kara Swisher 19:50 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 19:51 But I think-

Kara Swisher 19:51 Or they'll do anything.

Scott Galloway 19:52 I think a guy like Thune standing up there just saying, "Look, we can't continue to have these shutdowns." And then, of course, once the Democrats are in charge (laughs) , they'll threaten, they'll take the shutdowns hostage.

Kara Swisher 20:03 Right, they-

Scott Galloway 20:03 But generally speaking-

Kara Swisher 20:04 It only goes to November 19th, I think. It doesn't even solve the problem, right? That's the thing. It's just-

Scott Galloway 20:09 Well, that's it.

Kara Swisher 20:09 It just kicks the fucking can. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 20:10 We keep just kicking the can down the road. Until, until we actually get reasonable people to say, "All right, at some point, we gotta stop behaving irresponsibly and stop spending $7 trillion and five trillion in receipts-"

Kara Swisher 20:22 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 20:22 ... this is just gonna keep happening over and over.

Kara Swisher 20:23 Uh, they do think they're gonna peel off Democrats. They peeled off, obviously, Fetterman, who... He's essentially Republican, and then the independent guy. What's his name? Senator... Uh, well, I can't remember. Um, and then they peeled off the Nevada senator, uh, who just didn't believe in shutdowns. Um, but I don't think they're gonna peel anybody else off. I don't think they're gonna peel... I, I, I was talking to Tina Smith last week in Minnesota, very centrist, very reasonable. She's like, "No way." She, she didn't seem lefty to me. She's just like, "This is ridiculous. We're gonna... You know, this is... We're not..." She was adamant about the situation, so I don't think they're gonna peel anyone. And she would be someone you could peel off, presumably. Um, I don't think they'll peel anyone else off. Do you? I don't think so.

Scott Galloway 21:04 I don't know. These things have a habit of... I wouldn't be surprised if they come to some sort of accommodation where the Republicans say, "Okay, we'll give you something around... We'll give you the something that results in funding for these healthcare premiums, and we'll pretend that it was already in the bill or something." (laughs)

Kara Swisher 21:20 Yeah. Oh, the Republicans will do that. Yeah, something-

Scott Galloway 21:22 Yeah, I think they'll figure out a way, because, uh, he will own the... There's so much chaos surrounding the president right now.

Kara Swisher 21:29 There is.

Scott Galloway 21:29 And this has been a bad week for him. The-

Kara Swisher 21:31 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 21:32 I've always-

Kara Swisher 21:33 He should (inaudible)

Scott Galloway 21:33 ... I've always pushed back when people say, "Oh, he's senile." I've always said, "I think President Trump comes across as remarkably robust." I think he's dumb. I think he, he's strategically totally inept. I think he goes on, rambles on weird shit. But I've always thought he presents as robust. For the first time-

Kara Swisher 21:49 I don't know. I'm just telling you. Go watch some... I'll send you some videos, 'cause I, I'm like... It's, it's really... It, it reminds me of his father Fred, Fred Trump, who they pretended he was just fine. But we'll see. We're not doctors, but he seems-

Scott Galloway 22:00 Well, hold on. For the first time...

Kara Swisher 22:01 Go ahead.

Scott Galloway 22:01 Yeah, but we have, we have eyes and ears.

Kara Swisher 22:03 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 22:04 Um, y- you know, if, if you met my dad in the last year, you would say, "Okay, he should probably not be president." So, look, the president in the last week has had a couple instances, specifically... The one that sent the shivers down my spine when he said, "Oh, so we're sending two submarines. I'm not gonna tell you where off the coast of Russia," and there's two N words and you can't see either of them, and it's like, "Jesus Christ-"

Kara Swisher 22:24 What-

Scott Galloway 22:24 "... has this guy lost his shit?"

Kara Swisher 22:25 Yeah. "What am I seeing on TV? Is that real?" Anyway, uh, we're gonna move on. Uh,

Kara Swisher 22:31 video game maker Electronic Arts is being taken private in a deal valued at $55 billion, the largest leveraged buyout of all time. The investor group includes Saudis, uh, the Saudis, uh, Sovereign Wealth Fund, private equity firm Silver Lake, Egan Durban, and Jared Kushner's firm, Affinity Partners. Obviously, Jared is right in the friggin' center of this. And also, for people who don't know, MBS loves... Stays up all night and plays video games, apparently. That's what I was told by several people who hang with him. Um, the deal requires approval from the Committee on Foreign Investment in the US, but it's... Uh, please, it's going through. It's 'cause it's Jared Kushner. Uh, Scott, you and I predicted in March that we would, uh, would see a deal like this. Let's listen. I bet a lot of these companies may go private. Do you ever see one of the very big companies going private?

Scott Galloway 23:14 It, that, that is an excellent point. If you look at, uh, at some of the fallen angels and you look at the amount of money, capital sitting on the sidelines in private equity, it's over $4 trillion of capital waiting to be deployed. I think we're going to see... I did my predictions check yesterday. I think we're going to see the biggest take private in history this year.

Kara Swisher 23:30 There, we had it. We were s- We're so smart. We called it. What do you think of this deal and others will follow suit? Obviously, the players, I know Egan, uh, pretty well. Um, obviously, Kushner was right in the middle of it 'cause of his, his, uh, close ties to the Saudis and his getting the money from them. Um, you know, it's a big deal to go private. The guy, the company has sort of struggled over the years, although they have some hits. Um, it's run by this Australian guy who's a surfer. He got all tight with, um, Egan, and then they have houses next to each other in Hawaii, apparently. Um, and then they pulled in Kushner, obviously, who was the, who was the, uh, the unguent, u- unguent here, whatever, the grease, in this particular, uh, deal.

Scott Galloway 24:12 So putting Kushner aside, and again, the Trump and... Uh, uh, the Democrats are corrupt. They just do it for small ball, right? Hunter Biden shouldn't have been on the board of any company. He just shouldn't have been, and, but he gets hundreds of thousands of dollars. And Jared says, "Oh, I know how to be nepo corrupt, but I'm gonna do it for billions." (laughs)

Kara Swisher 24:31 Yeah. Right.

Scott Galloway 24:32 And, and not only that, he hasn't done anything illegal. He's raised money on the back of his father's influence-

Kara Swisher 24:37 Father-in-law's, yeah.

Scott Galloway 24:37 ... and he's doing a, he's doing a big deal. These deals are not easy to get done, so congratulations to him. This is a smart deal. Um, first off-... essentially, the Gulf is desperately trying to diversify away from a fossil fuel economy. And they know that the oil runs out, they're not sure if it's 30 years or 80 years, but they've basically got... The bad news is they have to diversify away from this fossil fuel economy. The good news is they have almost limitless capital to do it. So gaming, which is bigger than the TV and motion picture industries combined, uh, doesn't nearly get the amount of attention it deserves, is a huge industry, it's intellectual property, it would invite a new generation of young people. The other companies they have investments in are better in mobile and also since 2020, the gaming industry stocks have underperformed the market.

Kara Swisher 25:26 They have. That is true.

Scott Galloway 25:28 And so this thing was, I don't want to say was on sale, but what you have with Electronic Arts is they're kind of dominant in the old world, and that is consoles and handsets and you go buy a game. The future is around mobile and free games. And when you look at the amount of time that young people who are very attractive consumers, especially young men, spend on video games relative to the advertising they capture, there's an enormous... Remember those graphs, those charts we used to see that would show, uh, people spend 7% of their time reading newspapers and it, new- newspapers get 19% of ad dollars and people spend 30% of their time on the internet, but it's only getting 4% of ad dollars? This is like 20 years ago. You knew that eventually they would, uh, calibrate to the time spent. Essentially, ad dollars effectively lag but eventually catch up to where our attention is. The big opportunity and, and, uh, uh, the Kingdom has some investments in companies that are really good with mobile and free. The company, it underperformed, it diversifies the univ- the, the economy in the Gulf. I like it 'cause I think it brings us closer together. I really... You know, my bet and hope is that the Kingdom goes capitalist and continues to party in Mykonos as opposed to goes, going Islamist and fundamentalist, which the older folks' leadership wants. So I like this deal. I think it, I think it kind of works for everybody.

Kara Swisher 26:57 You know, EA has always... You know, uh, we've had the heads of EA at my various conferences years ago and years ago, and they were always sort of struggling in the digital age. Like, it, you, you know, it... I mean, obviously video games are digital on, on some level. But, i- it was always... Like, they moved from executive to executive. They had a lot of executive, you know, ****** and drang over at that company. And the question is where is... Are they going to be able to compete with the ones from China, the ones from, um, from all over the world, Japan and everywhere else? And I think they've always had an issue with that. And so they definitely need the money, right? In order to try to reassert themselves. But they kinda remind me, I know it sounds crazy, but like of a broadcast, like CBS. Like, ugh, here, what are you gonna do with this piece of shit? Like, Ellison.

Scott Galloway 27:45 Oh, no.

Kara Swisher 27:46 No? No, because they were older. I mean, that's what I'm saying. I'm just saying EA always had... always seemed behind the eight-ball constantly compared to especially China or any of the other many video, uh, Korea, all the, all the different places where really interesting innovations were happening.

Scott Galloway 28:04 No, no. Okay, so I would just say that... I'm trying, I'm trying to personalize this or humanize it.

Kara Swisher 28:09 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 28:09 I would say EA is Tom Brady in that-

Kara Swisher 28:11 Oh.

Scott Galloway 28:12 ... okay, maybe it's not winning Super Bowls, but-

Kara Swisher 28:14 Right, okay.

Scott Galloway 28:14 ... it's young and it's strong and it's vibrant.

Kara Swisher 28:16 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 28:16 Um, CBS is Tom Jones.

Kara Swisher 28:19 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 28:19 I mean, awesome in the '70s. Ooh-

Kara Swisher 28:21 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 28:22 ... sexy in the '70s. But, you know, on his final... You know, on the back nine. By the way, I love Tom Jones.

Kara Swisher 28:29 Yeah, I'm just looking at their games.

Scott Galloway 28:31 What's up, pussycat? Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Kara Swisher 28:32 Like, th- they have the-

Scott Galloway 28:33 God, that guy's a genius.

Kara Swisher 28:33 They have all the sports stuff, which does a bit-

Scott Galloway 28:36 That guy's a genius.

Kara Swisher 28:37 Yeah, they have Fif- whatever. They had Madden

Scott Galloway 28:39 Sexiest Welshman alive.

Kara Swisher 28:41 Madden was their b- but their sports were... are the biggest, most important games. And that does dovetail into the Saudis with their m- m- investments in sports and thi- like LIV Golf and things like that.

Scott Galloway 28:51 It's a great, it's a great take, private. Uh, and it... there... it hits strategic priorities.

Kara Swisher 28:55 What's the next one? What's the next one?

Scott Galloway 28:57 The next one? Well, that's my big prediction at the end of the show-

Kara Swisher 29:00 All right, okay.

Scott Galloway 29:00 ... I'm very excited about.

Kara Swisher 29:01 W- we'll wait. Okay, all right. Um, okay. Uh, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, OpenAI's new video app is stirring up copyright concerns. What a surprise.

Scott Galloway 29:09 Support for the podcast comes from Zeta. If you listen to Vivid, you might be a CMO who dreams of unifying your marketing and advertising in one platform to grow revenue instead of wasting it. With Zeta, that dream is now a reality. Zeta is a marketing platform that unifies both paid and owned channels in one system. This helps eliminate duplication, wasted spend and slow execution. With Zeta, there are no more silos, just accelerated growth. The Zeta marketing platform is the only AI-powered solution that unites both owned and paid channels together in a single system, giving CMOs and CFOs a measurable path to predictable, profitable customers. So, you can forget about the days of relying on third-party cookies, as Zeta is built on first-party data so you have a reliable foundation for your marketing growth. Zeta is the AI marketing cloud, the platform that unites paid and owned channels into one system, giving CMOs and CFOs a measurable path to predictable, profitable customers. To learn more about Zeta's services, go to zetaglobal.com/pivot. That's zetaglobal.com/pivot. One last time, that's Z-E-T-Aglobal.com/pivot.

Kara Swisher 30:12 Scott, we're back with

Kara Swisher 30:13 more news. OpenAI is taking, uh, on TikTok, Reels and YouTube with a new AI video generator app, Sora 2.0. The app will feature user-generated clips and feeds, uh, with algorithm-driven recommendations. Notably, Sora 2.0 will not... will include copyrighted content unless copyright holders opt out. What a s- what a fucking set of... what... Ugh. Anyway. OpenAI has been notifying studios and talent agencies about that over the last week. They're losing their minds, obviously. Meta also just introduced Vibes, a feed of AI-generated videos that will le- live in the Meta AI app. You know, a lot of it is AI slap, slop. Some of it is funny. J- Gavin Newsom has, has been making fantastic Sora, um, or different, uh, AI-generated videos making fun of Trump and Vance and everything else, which are quite good. But talk about the, the copyright opt-out. And, and Disney just ver- separately sent Character.AI a cease and desist letter to stop using its copyrighted characters without authorization. Talk a little bit about this. What, what, what will happen here?

Scott Galloway 31:14 Well, I- I just wanna send a message to, um, you know, Sundar and Satya and Sam. I opt out. Take this as notice.

Kara Swisher 31:27 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 31:28 I'm opting out. Do not crawl my shit. Of course, y- of course, if I wanna play, if I wanna use someone else's likeness, or if I wanna... uh, if I wanna start playing... I- I don't know. You know. I- I- I- if I wanna start reproducing... I'm in my gym right now and I'm looking at my weights and they say "Rogue." If I wanted to start in China producing plates that said "Rogue" on them, does Rogue have to call me before and say they're opting out of IP protection? No. There's no such thing. Uh, the whole point of IP is people (laughs) don't have the time to-

Kara Swisher 32:01 Why do you think they think they can do this?

Scott Galloway 32:02 ... send a letter to everybody and say, "We opt out."

Kara Swisher 32:04 Why do you... This reminds me of... Remember YouTube kind of played this game, and then later did the deals. They just went ahead and did it. And then s- remember they said, "You have to find your stolen content and tell us"? Remember that one, many years ago?

Scott Galloway 32:17 Well, this is, this is the dynamic at play. And that is, these companies with a leadership position that is helped by ignoring laws, by starting your ride-hailing app in Argentina without going through the, the, the bureaucratic process of getting business licenses. By showing that kind of growth in this market, you make so much fucking money that it's worth it to face the legal ramifications. So, they've done the math, and they've said, "If we can maintain the kind of growth we're gonna have by molesting other people's IP, even if it eventually gets swatted down in court, we'll have more than enough money. We're better off economically." It's the s- it's the analogy I've been using for 10 years. When there's a parking meter in front of your house, and it costs $100 an hour but the ticket is 50 cents, you break the law. And that's what they're doing here. They're saying... They know this will eventually work its way through courts. The biggest IP owners in the world will hit them hard, and they will start paying, similar to what YouTube has mostly done. YouTube used to be able to put anything on your videos. A Beyonce song to start, and whatever.

Kara Swisher 33:26 Yeah, they did. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 33:27 And now they have said, "Okay," and they've done these deals just about the moment it became, after they spent hundreds of millions of dollars pushing back. Uh, open- Sam has already said, "Oh my gosh, take a billion dollars and give it to the meanest, baddest lawyers and delay and obfuscate which will, uh, decision which will clearly come down against us." Because between now and then-

Kara Swisher 33:49 We'll be bigger.

Scott Galloway 33:49 ... and any fee they come up with, we're gonna get another quarter of a trillion dollars in market cap by offering funny, funny memes of the Family Guy starring in a Star Wars film with Darth Vader. And everyone will have their hair on fire, but by the time they actually get a judge to say, "No, you can't do this," they'll have accreted another $100 or $150 billion in market cap.

Kara Swisher 34:09 Yep, exactly. This is such, this was the, sort of the YouTube playbook. And I, but I remember when YouTube said, "You need to find your stuff and tell us." I was like, "Why don't you not create a thieving service?" Like, you have to tell us who's shoplifting, you know. Uh, w- we've given them shoplifting tools, but it was really astonishing. And, and the, the idea that they, all of them, the c- character AI, there's Disney stuff on there. There's, uh, so many, so much copyright thievery happening again. And they just, they do it over and over again, and it's sort of like Lucy and the football with Charlie Brown with the media companies. I mean, ultimately, again, this has to be stronger copyright protections in Congress presumably. Um, but it's really quite astonishing that they continue to have this much cheek. You know, they're thieves. They're, they're... Years ago, Walt Mossberg called Facebook and Google and all of them rapacious information thieves, and they rem- and o- we- let's add OpenAI to that list. Um, one good thing they did after being... after people died, um, they rolled out some parental controls this week allowing parents to adjust settings on their teen's account, and they'll also be notified if an account shows signs of potential self-harm. Let's see how well they do that. Uh, I can't believe they didn't do that in the first fucking place, but there they are, there they are. Now, in this genre a lot of people in Hollywood are also up in arms over AI-generated "actress" that some talent agencies are reportedly looking to sign. Anyway, she's- she's a very attractive actress and looks very real, and they sort of must have crafted her out of a bunch of appealing actresses. Um, her name's Tilly Norwood, and she's, she's- she's really quite appealing. I- I have to agree. And so they're going crazy because they c- they, they didn't make it out of anybody, but it looks like they made it out of all of them. But you're in the AI mix right now, as I, the... I'm- I'm disturbed by AI Scott Galloway picture that you

Kara Swisher 36:01 sent me. You partnered with Google Labs for a new project called Portraits. They created an AI version of you to answer your questions and provide life and career advice. Let's listen to this AI Scott answer a question.

Narrator 36:13 Hey, it's ChatGPT. Ready to get started?

Scott Galloway 36:17 I got a good job offer, but it's in a random town. What should I do?

Narrator 36:22 A job offer in a random town? That's a classic fork in the road. What kind of job is it, and what are your career goals long term?

Kara Swisher 36:29 Oh wow, you sound so not you. But (laughs) you kind of. You adjacent. So talk about this. How are you feeling about it?

Scott Galloway 36:37 Uh, well, I'm, I'm genuine. I, I, I want your view on this because quite frankly how I feel about it has changed dramatically. About... I get between 10 and 30 emails a day from usually thoughtful young men, sometimes mothers, asking for mostly professional and career advice, or sometimes investment advice. You know, "I'm 30. Am I too old to go back to business school? I have gotten into this school with a full ride, but the better school is not giving me money. What should I do? How do I ask for a raise?" Those kinds of questions. And they're usually really thoughtful young men who take a lot of time to write to me, and, uh, I can't get back to all of them.

Kara Swisher 37:12 Mm-hmm, yep.

Scott Galloway 37:12 I can't get back to 1% of them.

Kara Swisher 37:13 And you feel bad. You feel bad.

Scott Galloway 37:15 Yeah, you don't know... you don't want to do an automatic response.

Kara Swisher 37:18 Mm-hmm, yep.

Scott Galloway 37:18 You feel like you're ignoring them. I'm constantly virtue signaling about trying to help young men, and then some young man takes a ton of time.

Kara Swisher 37:24 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 37:24 ... I don't respond to people under the age of 18 because I think-

Kara Swisher 37:27 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 37:27 ... men should not have a, a, a n- not for, you know, n- not for anything terrible, but parents should decide what the influences are, uh, uh, in terms of their kids' life. Anyways, so about 18 months ago, we built a thin layer of innovation on top of an LLM and created Prof AI. And it answered about two or 300 questions a day. We thought it was really cool. And then about nine months ago, a woman who is my, one of my graduate student instructors at, uh, Stern, who is just so impressive... I'd use her name, but I don't wanna get her in trouble. She's just an incredibly impressive, competent person, came to me and said, "We can do this, but much better. We... At Google Labs, we're gonna launch a series of thought leaders to answer questions." Uh, there's no money involved, uh, th-

Kara Swisher 38:17 So it's an AI masterclass essentially, right?

Scott Galloway 38:19 So it's, the idea is that people who wanna answer questions and that you might get some benefit from understanding how they feel about things, but you don't have access to them. And it's wi- from Google Labs. Uh, I felt sort of funny in the beginning about working with Alphabet, but I really trust this person and think a lot of her.

Kara Swisher 38:35 So they, they ingested all your things.

Scott Galloway 38:37 So they, they crawled every podcast, every newsletter, every public appearance, and created a, a visual of me, and I actually think the voice is, is okay, so it's that you can ask this thing almost anything. And we spent a lot of time on safeguards. No one under 18, no advice around mental health. The truth is, uh, since we started working on this, I've become increasingly concerned, even freaked out about AI companions and synthetic relationships. One, uh, I have a nightmare that I wake up and find out that some kid hurt himself and he had a series of AI companions, including one with me. I just don't... I would never wanna read that. Two, on a more, or on a less mendacious level, I'm worried that if I created an ability to have a dialogue with me, that it might someday reduce a young man's motivation and mojo to establish mentorships in the real world.

Kara Swisher 39:34 With real men.

Scott Galloway 39:35 With real... A teacher.

Kara Swisher 39:37 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 39:37 Uh, their dad's friend, their scout leader-

Kara Swisher 39:39 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 39:39 ... whatever it is. And so, uh, the thing launched, I said to him, "Look, I'm increasingly uncomfortable with this. I don't know how to reconcile it. I, I worry that synthetic relationships are attacking what's mammalia about us-"

Kara Swisher 39:54 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 39:54 "... especially among young men." And I just, I, I, I, it-

Kara Swisher 39:59 So what happens to it? They, so they ingested it. Do you still have the rights to your things? Like they just-

Scott Galloway 40:03 Well-

Kara Swisher 40:03 ... you're, you're lending it to them? What, what is the situation?

Scott Galloway 40:07 So one thing I built in was that I can take it down at any time. And what I said to them is I said, "Let's launch it for 12 hours and look at the data," 'cause I don't want this out there. I'm just... And quite frankly, Kara, the interview you did with the parents who lost their son really rattled me. And I am increasingly uncomfortable with synthetic relationships doing anything that replace a young man's mojo to find relationships in the real world.

Kara Swisher 40:34 So let me ask you a, sort of a bigger question. Some of the stuff they're making with AI, to me, is solving problems that aren't that big, right? I know you can't get to everybody, right? And I get that. I get that you wanna reach out to more people and you want people to avail themselves to your wisdom, et cetera. But it seems like a lot of this stuff they're making is not problems we have. Like, you know, and I, and I, and I think it's hurting problems that we have with what you're just talking about, is men, m- men especially, making mentorship relationships kind of thing. And so what are we solving here by doing this, except for you feel guilty about n- not being able to get back to all the young men? Is it a real, is that the real biggest problem to use all this technology, all this effort? I mean, do you see it as ever being a good thing, except maybe working out, I guess? I guess.

Scott Galloway 41:26 No, I think there-

Kara Swisher 41:26 It's just a better Google, right?

Scott Galloway 41:28 I think there's more upside. I think if you're 85 and in a state or county seniors home and you've lost the capability to communicate and all your friends are dead and you've lost, for whatever reason, you're estranged from your family and you wanna talk to someone about the Packers, uh, it's almost an age thing for me. I think over 80, let character AI, let them have at it, 'cause quite frankly, the downside's not that great. Anyone under the age of 18 shouldn't be on a character AI. And I have slowly but surely come to believe that these synthetic relationships have more downside than upside.

Kara Swisher 42:00 I would agree. I would agree. Uh, uh, let me just interject. I just did an interview with Sherry Turkle, very famous MIT, um, um, uh, psyc- psychia- I think she's a psychiatrist, and, uh, she's done a lot on this, is in talking about artificial relationships for a long time and sort of everything is now, which she had predicted, has come home to roost. And one of the things she was noting is it used to be sort of an outlier if people did these relationships. She goes, "Now it's at the dead center." She has friends who are having trouble with their husbands or wives that are having tr- you know, relationship problems, et cetera. And-

Scott Galloway 42:31 And they spin up their best gay friend to give them advice about-

Kara Swisher 42:33 Right, except that what, what it does is say women have issues with men not listening to them or not being sensitive enough. So now you got a sensitive man talking to you. And men have issues, this is-

Scott Galloway 42:44 We aren't, folks.

Kara Swisher 42:46 What?

Scott Galloway 42:46 We have, we all have to learn how to deal with insensitive men.

Kara Swisher 42:48 That's right. So she was talking about, so and men li- very acquiescent female. They, which is why, getting back to Tilly Norwood, she is, she is exactly what Hollywood studios want, an actress who doesn't get old and doesn't act up, right? Or doesn't start to demand things. And so what Sherry was saying, the one thing that I thought was interesting, and I love your observations, is there's no there there. It's noth- there's nothing behind it except for stuff you inputted, right? So you're not there, Scott, as Scott AI. It's not you, really. Uh, you know, I think you would react if someone asked you... A general question is one thing, but a more complex question, it just doesn't...You, you shift and move as a person, and this doesn't. And there's no there there. I don't-

Scott Galloway 43:33 Well, okay, so, I don't think, I don't think it's that there isn't a there there. A repository of all of Peter Attia or Andrew Huberman's advice on creatine for women versus men-

Kara Swisher 43:45 Ugh.

Scott Galloway 43:46 There's access.

Kara Swisher 43:47 Sure.

Scott Galloway 43:48 There's, there's ... And these are neuroscientists who are thoughtful and, I think, fairly measured. There's value in having access to that put in sort of a narrative format. I do think there's an upside. However, however, I see the downside is that ... and I'll be snarky here ... women are constantly saying they want a more sensitive man. Well, that just leaves two people in the car crying in a parallel parking spot that is still empty.

Kara Swisher 44:14 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 44:14 And that's snarky, but here's the bottom line.

Kara Swisher 44:17 It's true. I've been in that car.

Scott Galloway 44:19 The most rewarding things in life-

Kara Swisher 44:22 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 44:22 ... hands down, come from navigating.

Kara Swisher 44:26 Friction.

Scott Galloway 44:27 Figuring out shit, and then the victory of doing really hard things. And there's nothing harder-

Kara Swisher 44:36 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 44:37 ... than having relationships. And that's what's so wonderful about them, right?

Kara Swisher 44:41 Oh, interesting.

Scott Galloway 44:41 When you figure out a way to come together with someone and decide you wanna have kids with them, when you figure out a way to get your kid off screens-

Kara Swisher 44:49 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 44:49 ... and come to some sort of agreement-

Kara Swisher 44:51 Have an argument.

Scott Galloway 44:51 When you figure out the pecking order of high school and establish your, your, your crew and your friends, when you figure out how to, how to navigate all the bullshit and frustration and bureaucracy of work, the end is we're mammalia, and that's what real fucking victory is.

Kara Swisher 45:09 So, what are you gonna do with this thing? Are you gonna kill it?

Scott Galloway 45:11 This is where I am today. I had them pull it down after 12 hours. And by the way, Google Labs could not have been more cooperative-

Kara Swisher 45:21 Well, okay-

Scott Galloway 45:21 ... empathetic-

Kara Swisher 45:22 But you're all- you're ... You have a loud platform, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 45:24 Yeah, but they're, uh, they've been ... They spent a lot of time on this, and it launched yesterday, and I'm just ... And we were gonna let it go for a little bit to look at the data, and I looked at it and I thought, "I'm just not down with this."

Kara Swisher 45:38 No. No.

Scott Galloway 45:38 I just ... I've got a bad feeling about this. And I emailed, um, text messaged my friend there last night, and she said, "I'll pull it down right now."

Kara Swisher 45:48 All right. Okay. Well, that, if that's what we're gonna do, can you send it to me so I can hang out with you all the time?

Scott Galloway 45:53 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 45:53 Can I have it?

Scott Galloway 45:54 So you can yell at it?

Kara Swisher 45:55 Yell at it. "Ah!" You know, here's the thing. I don't like Scott AI. I like Scott. That's how I feel about it.

Scott Galloway 46:00 Mm-hmm. Can't agree with that.

Kara Swisher 46:00 And I, I think it's a really ... Uh, you know, the only thing I would think about... Years ago, Martha Stewart said she was gonna start Marth AI. Get it? Put an I at the end of her name. And I thought, okay, for stuff like that, like how to boil an egg, how to make mashed potatoes, that makes perfect sense. If there's-

Scott Galloway 46:15 Well, robo-advisors are basically synthetic-

Kara Swisher 46:17 Right. Exactly.

Scott Galloway 46:18 ... stock brokers.

Kara Swisher 46:19 Right. Exactly. And those make ... Those kind of things, cooking tips, things like that make sense, although I do like a good chef talking about cooking. I just ... Uh, I think you're, you made the right decision. I think you made the right-

Scott Galloway 46:31 Well, I, I find most life lessons come from Twilight Zone, the old series.

Kara Swisher 46:36 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 46:36 Which, by the way, is the first time I ever saw Robert Redford was in the Twilight Zone.

Kara Swisher 46:38 Yeah, that's right, in that great episode.

Scott Galloway 46:40 But remember that episode where this guy, this criminal is shot? And he goes to heaven? And he's in heaven and every woman he approaches says yes and wants to date him, and when he goes up to the blackjack table it's blackjack every time. And he ... There's huge lines to get into the hottest restaurants, and they're like, "Right this way, sir." And he starts getting sick of winning all the time. And he says, he says, "Come on guys, this is supposed to be heaven." And the guy turns and goes, "My brother, this is not heaven." That's the point.

Kara Swisher 47:13 Whoa! Mind blown!

Scott Galloway 47:15 Right?

Kara Swisher 47:15 Oh, I love Twilight Zone. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 47:17 That's the point.

Kara Swisher 47:18 Yeah. That's the point.

Scott Galloway 47:19 Y- y- ... The greatest yeses in your life-

Kara Swisher 47:21 Friction.

Scott Galloway 47:21 ... involve one thing: a shit ton of nos.

Kara Swisher 47:24 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 47:24 That's the whole shooting match.

Kara Swisher 47:26 Could they make Scott AI be more of an asshole?

Scott Galloway 47:29 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 47:29 Like, so that it's more like regular life?

Scott Galloway 47:31 I'm getting there organically.

Kara Swisher 47:33 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 47:33 I'm getting there organically.

Kara Swisher 47:34 That's what they have to do, like, "Uh, what? And tell a dick joke suddenly?" Anyway, Scott, let's go on a quick break now, and when we get back we'll talk about, uh, Hegseth, uh, declaring the military free from wokeness and body-shaming generals.

Scott Galloway 47:47 Support for Pivot comes from BetterHelp. October 10th is World Mental Health Day, and it's a day to celebrate the therapists out there, but also an acknowledgement that your mental health journey isn't restricted to a single day. It's something to work on every single day. And BetterHelp therapists have helped over five million people worldwide on their mental health journeys. That's millions of stories, millions of journeys, and behind every one is a therapist who showed up, listened, and helped someone take a step forward. Moments in therapy, like asking the right question, providing a safe space to cry, or creating a small win, can change lives. It's why BetterHelp is honoring those connections and the therapists who make them possible while showing how easy it is to get guidance from a licensed therapist online with BetterHelp. So this World Mental Health Day, we're celebrating the therapists who've helped millions of people move forward. If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help you start that journey. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/pivot. That's betterhelp.com/pivot.

Kara Swisher 48:41 Scott, we're back with more news.

Kara Swisher 48:43 Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth held nothing back while addressing senior military ... uh, I don't even wanna talk ... officials in Virginia this week. Let's listen to some of his ... And I have to say, it was a crazy rant by someone who has moved onto other substances, it felt like. Go ahead.

Narrator 48:58 If the Secretary of War can do regular hard PT, so can every member of our Joint Force. Frankly, it's tiring to look out at combat formations, or really any formation, and see fat troops. Likewise, it's completely unacceptable to see fat generals and admirals in the halls of the Pentagon, and leading commands around the country and the world. It's a bad look. It is bad, and it's not who we are.

Kara Swisher 49:23 Trump followed the sentiment. Let's listen to a clip, someone who happens to be actually fat. Go ahead.

Narrator 49:29 You can do anything you want, and if you don't like what I'm saying, you can leave the room. Of course, there goes your rank. There goes your future.

Kara Swisher 49:36 That was one of the few laughs. The generals were... Looked horrified by the entire thing. Uh, the president also suggested military use, quote, "dangerous US cities" as, quote, "training grounds," and told reporters at the White House that he would fire generals on the spot if he didn't like them. Um, wow, that was a real disaster, I have to say. Um, they did... The, the, the visuals from the j- from the, from the top, uh, l- military leadership were... Sort of said it all. And of course, they leaked the hell out of the thing. Also, Hegseth's, uh, focus on looks and outfits. They were expecting a strategic discussion about US military forces around the world and instead they got a rant by someone who was a lower-ranking person and someone who was a five-time draft dodger about how to run the military, but focused only on, on looks, uh, essentially. Let me tell you one other thing someone else told me was that, um, the, the reason he did this, and he... It was all from Hegseth, be... 'cause he is considering a presidential run, which I thought was insane when I heard it. Um, and that, uh, that people, other forces who were not so keen on Pete Hegseth running for president and think it's ridiculous got Trump to go to try to ruin his mojo there. Um, I thought it was d- hugely embarrassing, um, for, for everybody, especially the military which had to sit there and, and put up with it. Any quick thoughts?

Scott Galloway 50:59 There has never been, possibly in history, a room with more competence, bravery, uh, honor, humility in one room than there was in that room. It was a security risk to have them in one place. You don't think there was GRU and CCP taking photographs and saying-

Kara Swisher 51:21 Yep.

Scott Galloway 51:21 ... "These are the most... Let's find their... Let- let's find what devices are on, what algorithms are on-"

Kara Swisher 51:26 Travel, how they travel.

Scott Galloway 51:27 "...on their kids, their movements, ev- That, that was just a stupid security risk. And for a guy who was... I mean, first off, I'm very into fitness.

Kara Swisher 51:38 I get it.

Scott Galloway 51:39 There is no... To, to hold a general who served honorably probably in Vietnam as an 18-year-old, who has, who has overseen combat... "Okay, Pete, I wanna see what you look like at 65." I mean, (laughs) the, the notion that he has any license being demeaning to that room is literally... is laughable. And all of this bullshit around, you know... I- I get it. Uh, uh, beards, whatever, I... It is, it is s-

Kara Swisher 52:16 That's supposed to attack, uh, m- uh, people of... Men of c- especially men of color. Some men have p- issues with, with, um, shaving, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 52:24 It's so performative. It's so, it's so stupid. It, it doesn't result... It, it makes us weaker. I- i- and w- you have... You're, you're talking to the... He's a fuck-... He was a major-

Kara Swisher 52:38 I know. An anons-

Scott Galloway 52:39 Which means if he had been much better and spent another 20 years in the armed services, he might have been able to pack the bags for the people who ended up in that room.

Kara Swisher 52:48 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 52:49 Uh, to, to lecture these people on leadership and what they-

Kara Swisher 52:54 Meaningless things.

Scott Galloway 52:55 ...need to be doing to be a-

Kara Swisher 52:56 Meaningless things. It wasn't even on strategy.

Scott Galloway 52:57 All of this is-

Kara Swisher 52:57 It wasn't on our position in the world. It isn't... You know, if he had said, "Now we're gonna be this." Instead it's all performative. The other part is him talking them about being individualistic. This guy... There's not more of a fop in that cabinet than this guy. He's got funny socks, he's got weird things on the inside of his jackets. He's got tattoos. He's... Wears the stupid glasses. This guy is one... Speaking of individualistic, this guy just relishes in it, and to act like he's some, like, paradigm is kind of fucking ridi- He's such a ridiculous, performative clown. And, uh, the fact that he's thinking of running for president? I mean, oh my... And this was what he was y- using this. He was wasting taxpayer money to give himself a shine-up and he ended up looking like a, a clown.

Scott Galloway 53:42 The, the two, the two features that just were... Are, are always present in a, present in a room of leadership from our armed services are one competence. These people are literally charged with l- deploying lethal force in a thoughtful way and they're responsible for a ton of young men and women's wellbeing as it intersects with some of the most complicated supply chain technology, geopolitics in the world, and these people figure out a way to do it. From a young age, I, I, I... One of my roommates was ROTC. By the t- you know, I, I'm 24 doing fucking PowerPoint desks talking, you know... PowerPoint deck, decks talking about taking over some, some refrigeration company in Wisconsin and my friend was commanding 1,200 19-year-olds. I mean, the, these people, uh, uh, they one, demonstrate competence and then the second key feature which these people do not demonstrate in, in any fashion on stage is humility. They don't brag. They don't... Th- they, they don't... You know, and, and the other thing that the armed services represents, and it's not to say it hasn't had its problems around racism but it's been an enormous means of lifting up people based on character and competence. There's nothing that, there's nothing that melts away, racism and homophobia, like being in a foxhole where both of your lives are under threat. All you care about is the competence and the character of the man or the woman next to you. You're not thinking, "Well, I don't like Puerto Ricans." And so the armed services have been an amazing m- means of creating equality and progressive advancement. And then when you have these guys up there with this sort of like this, "You need to be fit and you can't have beards and-"

Kara Swisher 55:27 And then they bring out, you know... I said fat boy-

Scott Galloway 55:29 And misogynistic.

Kara Swisher 55:29 ... and little man bombed, right?

Scott Galloway 55:31 I, I do... I, I gotta be honest. I do agree with one thing. I think in combat, the standards should be gender, gender-neutral. I think if you're g- applying to be in a combat position-... you have to qualify be able to... by being able to drag somebody 90 feet if they're wounded.

Kara Swisher 55:45 Sure.

Scott Galloway 55:45 I get that, but the reality is today's combat-

Kara Swisher 55:47 Doesn't happen that much.

Scott Galloway 55:49 ... is more about, it's like, I think, I would bet-

Kara Swisher 55:51 It's intelligence.

Scott Galloway 55:51 ... less than 2% of our armed services. And you know who are also warriors? The man or the woman that agrees to get in the driver's seat and drive a fucking fuel tank-

Kara Swisher 56:00 Right.

Scott Galloway 56:01 ... across a highway of IEDs.

Kara Swisher 56:03 That's right. That's correct.

Scott Galloway 56:04 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 56:04 I mean, the whole thing is, I... it was such an embarrassment. And listen, President Pete, you're not gonna be the Pete that's president. It'll be-

Scott Galloway 56:11 Oh, let's hope he's the Republican nominee.

Kara Swisher 56:13 It'll be Buttigieg. Yeah. Oh my God, what a fucking-

Scott Galloway 56:13 Let's pray that he's the Republican nom- If he runs for president on the Republican side-

Kara Swisher 56:19 He makes Sarah Palin look smart.

Scott Galloway 56:19 ... I will donate money to his campaign.

Kara Swisher 56:21 Oh my God, what a...

Scott Galloway 56:21 Because that means (laughs) the next president is gonna be a Democrat.

Kara Swisher 56:24 Literally. He makes Sarah Palin look smart. Anyway. Lastly, he... it was just such a disaster, Pete. And I... you got totally... they, they shoved... other people who don't agree that you should get this little fancy, fancy shine up, shoved... there was a whole machination happening among Republicans on how Trump ended up there. Who also, by the way, when he said cities should be used as training grounds, that is dangerous and scary and ridiculous. And th- I'm sure those military people all thought that. Um...

Scott Galloway 56:52 Just as long as he doesn't use the N-word.

Kara Swisher 56:54 Oh, I know, yeah, don't use the... oh God. Ugh. Um,

Kara Swisher 56:57 YouTube, uh, lastly, YouTube will settle a lawsuit over banning President Trump's account for over $24 million. YouTube banned Trump's account in 2021 after January 6th, and reinstated it, uh, later. Uh, the settlement funds will go to building the new White House ballroom, which looks so ridiculous. As a reminder, other big tech companies have done the same with similar lawsuits, with Meta settling for $25 million and X settling for $10 million. Um, oh God, why are they settling? They did nothing wrong at the time, it was very dangerous, then they reinstated. It was the right decision at the moment, uh, they shouldn't be paying off these bribes. That's what they are, they're bribes. I don't know. Your thoughts?

Scott Galloway 57:33 Yeah, I keep waiting for someone just to hold the line and say no. I mean, all it means is they're... he's gonna, they're gonna come back again. You're setting a really terrible precedent. I don't... I mean, uh, these companies are the same companies that fight people tooth and nail when their 15-year-old gets, uh, gets... is served content that encourages suicidal ideation and self-harm. They'll go to the mat for that shit. But when it comes to the president being butt hurt about something that was said-

Kara Swisher 58:03 Many years ago.

Scott Galloway 58:03 ... they'll settle for tens of millions of dollars.

Kara Swisher 58:05 They're ridiculous. They look like such toadies. They look like toadies, these unctuous, right down to Sundar Pichai. I like Sundar Pichai, but Sundar, you're an embarrassment at this moment to me. I have to say. I've known you for many years, and I know you don't care what I think, but ugh, just really... I get your little pro- you should've held out. You would've looked smarter. Um, all right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.

Scott Galloway 58:30 Support for the show comes from Silicon Valley Bank. Silicon Valley Bank is deeply embedded in the companies, products, and services that form the innovation economy. They're a proactive partner that helps bring their client's vision to life, and they fuel high-growth companies with tailored solutions and the hands-on support that turns potential into performance. Now, SVB is a division of First Citizens Bank. First Citizens Bank has always been dedicated to highly personalized service and supporting emerging sectors. That's why buying SVB made sense for First Citizens Bank and for you. SVB clients can now benefit from this combined commitment to tailored solutions, incredible service, and deep expertise from a top 20 bank with a national footprint. So, if you're serious about being part of the innovation economy, there's really only one bank for you, Silicon Valley Bank. Yes, SVB. Learn more at svb.com/vox.

Kara Swisher 59:17 Okay,

Kara Swisher 59:18 Scott, let's hear that prediction. I'm curious who you think's going private, how interesting. What's a fallen angel?

Scott Galloway 59:23 Well, we, we talked about this. My picks were, and this isn't my prediction, but there's just some really big iconic companies that have a lot of IP and revenue that probably should be either acquired or taken private. A Bo- my favorites were Boeing, Intel, and Target. But I think you are about to see, and we predicted this... Uh, by the way, the... our prediction at the end of... beginning of this year was that M&A was about to boom again, and it was in a deep thaw at the beginning of the year. What did the investment banks announce? Record M&A. So, the universe of companies that Palantir can potentially acquire right now has gone up 1,000X.

Kara Swisher 1:00:00 Yeah. It's, if you don't do it-

Scott Galloway 1:00:01 So their-

Kara Swisher 1:00:02 ... it's stupid, right?

Scott Galloway 1:00:03 Their banker can show up... Well, when you're trading at 100 times revenues, anything you acquire that's trading at less than 100 times revenues, which is every company on the planet, is accretive to your earnings. The way I would describe it is, if your stock doubles, then effectively everything else has become 50% less expensive. And I think we're gonna see a titanic acquisition or merger from Netflix. I think there are so many existential threats, clouds forming around Netflix right now with some of this... I mean, Sam Altman putting out these, um, kind of, AI-driven videos and saying, "It's so you can communicate with your friends and family."

Kara Swisher 1:00:45 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:00:45 That is a lie. He's doing this and trying to pretend it's friendly such that every Hollywood producer starts going, "Jesus Christ-"

Kara Swisher 1:00:53 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:00:53 "... why can't we start producing films for three million instead of 300 million?"

Kara Swisher 1:00:56 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:00:58 So, I think there's some real existential threats to a stock that is now worth, you know, I don't know, $440 billion. Or, it... That stock, uh... by the way, one of my great investments, I bought Netflix at, um, 12 bucks a share. Um, it's now at $1,146. The part of the story I left out is I sold it at $10 a share-

Kara Swisher 1:01:20 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:01:20 ... to take the tax loss and never bought back in. But basically, Netflix now has a four... almost a half a trillion dollar market cap. And I think they face some real threats.

Kara Swisher 1:01:31 They need to do something, yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:01:32 Well, the merger, the gangster merger of the ages would be the following.

Kara Swisher 1:01:37 Tell me.

Scott Galloway 1:01:38 Uh, Netflix and Disney.

Kara Swisher 1:01:40 Oh, I love it.

Scott Galloway 1:01:41 Because look at... it's very synergistic. First off-

Kara Swisher 1:01:44 Oh, and then Ted could run Disney, how fantastic.

Scott Galloway 1:01:47 Okay. Ding, ding, ding, ding.

Kara Swisher 1:01:48 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:01:49 So-There's this co-CEO-

Kara Swisher 1:01:51 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:01:51 ... this guy named Greg Peters. I saw him speak at Cannes and I thought, "Jesus Christ, this guy is-"

Kara Swisher 1:01:55 Impressive.

Scott Galloway 1:01:55 "... so bright."

Kara Swisher 1:01:56 He is bright. So is Bella-

Scott Galloway 1:01:57 And by the way-

Kara Swisher 1:01:58 By the way, let me note a woman who's at the top of that business. Bella Bagaria is doing all the programming. Amazing.

Scott Galloway 1:02:04 Uh, they have an outstanding... And then Ted Sarandos is, like, built in a factory of lesser C- from parts of lesser CEOs.

Kara Swisher 1:02:12 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:02:12 He is so good.

Kara Swisher 1:02:14 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:02:14 I, I saw him on stage recently, and they asked him these really pointed questions.

Kara Swisher 1:02:18 Yeah, I like Ted. I have to say.

Scott Galloway 1:02:19 Well, first off, he has the primary competence of any great CEO, and that is he has outstanding hair.

Kara Swisher 1:02:25 Yeah, he has good hair.

Scott Galloway 1:02:26 He has very good hair.

Kara Swisher 1:02:27 Good with talent. He's good with-

Scott Galloway 1:02:29 Good with talent, smart.

Kara Swisher 1:02:30 He's, he's always... He's just-

Scott Galloway 1:02:30 Not afraid of anybody, any question.

Kara Swisher 1:02:32 I like Ted.

Scott Galloway 1:02:32 He handles it. The guy literally reeks of aplomb. Anyway. Disney... Disney's leadership right now is Neville Chamberlain in a cashmere sweater, minus the dignity. Right? That's their... And who the fuck... And then the number two is a woman who's gotten dragged down by the Kimmel shit. They are desperate for leadership. What does Netflix... What does, what does Disney have that is absolutely singular and can't be threatened by OpenAI? Past the parks and cruise lines. But the IP at the parks, Cinderella and Darth Vader, are getting tired. Stranger Things, Wednesday. Can you imagine a Stranger Things ride at Disney?

Kara Swisher 1:03:15 Amazing. Hunting Wives, the l- whole lesbian ride for me.

Scott Galloway 1:03:18 And.

Kara Swisher 1:03:19 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:03:20 Gi- and the streaming market?

Kara Swisher 1:03:22 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:03:22 You have Netflix-

Kara Swisher 1:03:24 Done.

Scott Galloway 1:03:24 ... and Disney, it's over.

Kara Swisher 1:03:26 And Hulu. Hulu's in there, remember, right?

Scott Galloway 1:03:28 You have, you have Disney, Netflix and-

Kara Swisher 1:03:28 National Geographic is in there.

Scott Galloway 1:03:30 It's over.

Kara Swisher 1:03:31 Over. I love it. It would give them such heft.

Scott Galloway 1:03:33 So they own... They would own place-based entertainment.

Kara Swisher 1:03:36 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:03:36 And they would own streaming media.

Kara Swisher 1:03:38 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:03:39 They would own cruises, parks and-

Kara Swisher 1:03:40 And also, Netflix is going into live events too. Also, comedy.

Scott Galloway 1:03:44 And-

Kara Swisher 1:03:44 Comedy. They'd own comedy.

Scott Galloway 1:03:45 It solves, it solves their leadership problem.

Kara Swisher 1:03:48 Yeah, yeah. We love it.

Scott Galloway 1:03:49 This would be... Anyways. Uh, 220, 210 billion or 200 billion, Disney. 450 billion, Netflix. Netflix would own, call it-

Kara Swisher 1:03:59 I love it.

Scott Galloway 1:03:59 ... 70% of the combined companies. This would be the first trillion dollar-

Kara Swisher 1:04:03 Scott.

Scott Galloway 1:04:03 ... free-to-play entertainment company.

Kara Swisher 1:04:04 Will it get passed by, by Trump?

Scott Galloway 1:04:06 Well, that's the thing. It might now.

Kara Swisher 1:04:08 It might now. Yeah, or maybe not.

Scott Galloway 1:04:09 My point is, they can't... If there's a de-

Kara Swisher 1:04:11 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:04:11 They couldn't have done it seven months ago.

Kara Swisher 1:04:13 Ted's pretty Democratic. Remember, Ted's pretty, like, down Democratic highway, so interesting.

Scott Galloway 1:04:17 But my point is-

Kara Swisher 1:04:18 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:04:19 A- a- as soon as there's... Under Biden, it couldn't happen, and if there's another Democratic administration, it won't be allowed to happen.

Kara Swisher 1:04:24 Can I add something to your deal?

Scott Galloway 1:04:25 This is the window.

Kara Swisher 1:04:26 Let me add something to your deal. Snapchat. Pick up Snapchat.

Scott Galloway 1:04:30 Snap's, Snap's probably more trouble than it's worth.

Kara Swisher 1:04:32 Not really. It's like a great system. They could shove all kinds of shit on it. Like, why not own it, like the way Alison owns TikTok?

Scott Galloway 1:04:38 Because it's kids, and it's-

Kara Swisher 1:04:40 I don't... It is. So is Disney.

Scott Galloway 1:04:42 No, but y-

Kara Swisher 1:04:43 I don't guess it does.

Scott Galloway 1:04:43 There's not a feature, there's not a feature-

Kara Swisher 1:04:45 Just, just put it in your, put it on your s-

Scott Galloway 1:04:46 There's-

Kara Swisher 1:04:46 On your p- in your sauce pan and think about it.

Scott Galloway 1:04:47 There's not a feature on, on Disney Channel that lets you see people around you that drug users, that drug dealers are using.

Kara Swisher 1:04:54 I'm not even kidding. I'm just telling you. It's-

Scott Galloway 1:04:54 I- i- i-

Kara Swisher 1:04:54 It's the, it's the cleanest of all of them.

Scott Galloway 1:04:56 People, people don't, people don't go on the Matterhorn and start self-cutting.

Kara Swisher 1:04:59 Okay.

Scott Galloway 1:04:59 Snap is-

Kara Swisher 1:05:00 Okay, okay. All right.

Scott Galloway 1:05:00 Snap has got real issues.

Kara Swisher 1:05:02 All right.

Scott Galloway 1:05:02 I don't think they want near it.

Kara Swisher 1:05:03 They don't want it.

Scott Galloway 1:05:03 I don't think Ted Sarandos would want anywhere near Snap.

Kara Swisher 1:05:05 All right. I'm just saying, they'll get on a social platform too. Okay, all right. I'm just saying, put it, put it in the popcorn maker.

Scott Galloway 1:05:10 Think about it?

Kara Swisher 1:05:11 And just think about it. Think about Tesla and Snapchat. Um, okay. Uh, that was a great prediction. This feels like your Whole Foods one. I like it. I love it, and I think it's, has to happen, and I'm gonna tell Ted to do it, okay? Um, we wanna hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot, uh, to submit a question for the show, or call 855-51-PIVOT. And don't forget, we're going on tour. We'll be coming to Toronto; Boston; New York; DC; Chicago; San Francisco; and LA. Visit, visit pivottour.com for t-

Scott Galloway 1:05:42 Because we hate Arizona.

Kara Swisher 1:05:43 We hate Arizo- (laughs) We don't.

Scott Galloway 1:05:45 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 1:05:45 We love Arizona.

Scott Galloway 1:05:46 I love Arizona.

Kara Swisher 1:05:46 We'll go there sometime.

Scott Galloway 1:05:47 I love Arizona.

Kara Swisher 1:05:48 Um, but anyway, we're very excited to see the fans. We are gonna be there for you. We're gonna try to put on our best show. We're gonna dress up. Scott's gonna do a strip tease. I have some surprises-

Scott Galloway 1:05:58 You know it.

Kara Swisher 1:05:58 ... for Scott that he doesn't know about.

Scott Galloway 1:05:59 You know it.

Kara Swisher 1:06:00 Um, anyway, before we go, I just wanna mention legendary conservationist Jane Goodall, who died this week at age 91. I had the opportunity to speak to her back in 2020. Let's listen to a brief portion of that interview.

Narrator 1:06:12 I will never ever believe that the way for change is confrontation and aggression, because people change when you reach the heart. And so, you know, when people ask me, "What do you do when you meet somebody who's behaving in a way that you really dislike or something?" Try and find a connection. Maybe they have a dog or a cat or a horse or a child or something. Just for one minute, if you have a short time to talk to them. And then stories. Tell stories.

Kara Swisher 1:06:46 Oh, what a, what an amazing woman. What an amazing life.

Scott Galloway 1:06:49 They had a great life.

Kara Swisher 1:06:50 What an amazing life. Be Jane Goodall, everybody.

Scott Galloway 1:06:53 Yeah, yeah. That's right.

Kara Swisher 1:06:53 She just was... I loved that interview. It was fantastic. Anyway, Scott, by the way, you've been fantastic today. I don't know what's in your Wheaties, but very fine-

Scott Galloway 1:07:01 That's what sound like, uh-

Kara Swisher 1:07:01 ... thoughts.

Scott Galloway 1:07:02 ... science, it's kind-

Kara Swisher 1:07:03 Yeah, lot-

Scott Galloway 1:07:03 ... of, yeah?

Kara Swisher 1:07:03 Lots, lots of stuff. You're not Jane Goodall, but you're on your way. Uh, and, and, and again, send me Scott AI because I'm gonna, I'm gonna have some times with him. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. One special thing, Clara Jo, uh, Swisher-Cats, happy sixth birthday this weekend. We're very excited to have a fantastic mermaid party. And now, Rita South.

Scott Galloway 1:07:28 Today's show was produced by Lara Nehm and Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin and Kate Gallagher. Ernie Entwirt engineered this episode. Jim Mackle edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Miss Severio, Dan Shalon and Annika Robins. Nishad Kurwaz, Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Take care, have a great weekend.