Will Gavin Newsom’s Trump Trolling Deliver Real Results? | Pivot

1. 0:00 – 20:48

   Intro

   1. APAbby Phillip0:00

      I don't think that your presidential chances are related to your social media clout.

   2. KSKara Swisher0:05

      Yeah. Though he does look good astride an eagle with a chest. He does look good. (laughs) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. Welcome back to ... Scott Free August. Scott is still away so I have yet another fantastic co-host, Abby Phillip, the anchor of CNN's News Night with Abby Phillip. Abby, welcome.

   3. APAbby Phillip0:38

      I am so honored to be here when Scott is not around.

   4. KSKara Swisher0:41

      I know. We can do all kinds of naughty things.

   5. APAbby Phillip0:43

      It's gonna be great.

   6. KSKara Swisher0:43

      Just, I don't know if you listened to Rachel last week, but (laughs) this last week, but-

   7. APAbby Phillip0:47

      I did.

   8. KSKara Swisher0:47

      ... we can do whatever we want.

   9. APAbby Phillip0:48

      It was very lesbian.

   10. KSKara Swisher0:49

       Um, and you also-

   11. APAbby Phillip0:49

       It was great. (laughs)

   12. KSKara Swisher0:51

       Yeah, you also get a little break 'cause you're usually the host. You're just the wrangler. So I will wrangle you if you don't mind.

   13. APAbby Phillip0:56

       Great.

   14. KSKara Swisher0:57

       Yeah. So I know you're, um ... I want to talk a little bit about a couple of things y- you're up to. Um, one is your show, your show which has been very successful, incredibly busy, as I said, wrangling and then sometimes wrestling to the ground all sorts of personalities on your five nights a week show. This week, incredibly, you have a lot of viral moments. It's usually with Scott Jennings. We're not getting into Scott Jennings here, but I have to say that Jillian Michaels' thing, um, really took off this week. Um, I'm gonna play the, the exchange, um, that she had and how you dealt with her. Let's listen.

   15. JCJillian (panelist on Abby’s CNN show clip)1:29

       He forgave me for saying it. It's not whitewashing slavery. So- Uh, he's not? He's not, no. Okay. He's, he's not. And you cannot tie imperialism and racism and slavery to just one race, which is pretty much what every single exhibit does. But let's talk about the fact that when you look- In the United States- Let's talk about the fact- ... anti-slavery, the anti-slavery movement in terms of- I mean, United s- slavery in America was a system of White supremacy. Do you know that only less than 2% of White Americans owned slaves? But it was a system of White supremacy. Do, do you realize that slavery is thousands of years old? You know, African-Americans were slaves and White people were their slave owners. Do you know who was the first race to, to try to end slavery? I didn't watch this. It's controversial. Okay. Well, what's controversial- I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

   16. APAbby Phillip2:00

       Jillian, I'm, I'm very surprised-

   17. JCJillian (panelist on Abby’s CNN show clip)2:01

       ... is- This is an extraordinary exercise in historical revisionism. Whoa. Uh, I, I'm really surprised-

   18. APAbby Phillip2:04

       I'm really surprised-

   19. JCJillian (panelist on Abby’s CNN show clip)2:05

       Historical revisionism? Do you realize that-

   20. APAbby Phillip2:06

       Jillian, I'm surprised that you're trying to litigate, um, th- who was the beneficiary of slavery and who was-

   21. JCJillian (panelist on Abby’s CNN show clip)2:11

       I'm not.

   22. KSKara Swisher2:13

       Okay. You handled that really well. (laughs)

   23. JCJillian (panelist on Abby’s CNN show clip)2:15

       (laughs)

   24. KSKara Swisher2:15

       I don't know how you jumped in there, but sh- that was nuts what she was saying, in my opinion.

   25. APAbby Phillip2:20

       Yeah. It, it, I mean, it, it was wild. Uh, look, everybody was shocked. It, it was unexpected, to be frank.

   26. KSKara Swisher2:26

       Mm-hmm.

   27. APAbby Phillip2:26

       Because we were not really in a discussion about that (laughs) at the table-

   28. KSKara Swisher2:31

       Yeah.

   29. APAbby Phillip2:31

       ... when she just brings it up.

   30. KSKara Swisher2:32

       Yeah. Mm-hmm.
2. 20:48 – 27:33

   Zelensky Returns to The White House

   1. KSKara Swisher20:48

      President Trump is set to meet Ukraine's President Zelenskyy and European leaders at the White House as we record on Monday. This follows Trump's summit with Putin in Alaska on Friday, where he rolled out the red carpet, but no deal was made. Trump seems to be siding with Putin right now after going in not siding with him, saying over the weekend, "The best way to end the war is to go directly to a peace agreement, not negotiate a ceasefire," which he was talking about. He's also telling Ukraine to give up on getting back Russia-uh, annexed Crimea or joining NATO. Um, you were part of CNN's live coverage of the Alaska summit. I'd just love your thoughts, and the last time Zelenskyy was in the White House, things got pretty ugly. Uh, Vance kinda trolled him. Um, he's bringing backup this time, um, and others. Uh, he may wear a suit, which is so inane, but there you have it. They were making comments about his outfit, which was a military outfit. Um, talk to me a little bit about this. E- even though it, it's gonna go by the time we do, but how are you going into this? How do you look at it, especially from the Alaska summit?

   2. APAbby Phillip21:45

      I think it's extraordinary that this is even happening. I mean, uh, think about the fact that you have a, a phalanx of European leaders getting on planes at a moment's notice to flock to Washington to give Zelenskyy backup in this-

   3. KSKara Swisher22:00

      Right.

   4. APAbby Phillip22:00

      ... meeting with Trump. That's a level of concern that I think some people say hasn't been demonstrated since 9/11. Um, and it reflects a deep worry about Trump's decision-making and his need to be surrounded by a certain point of view in order to come to what they view as the right conclusion. So, so, I think that alone, I mean, says a lot. And I, I think that ... You know, I said this on Friday. I mean, Trump really believes that he can get Putin to the desired outcome by simply treating him right, by giving him the red carpet, by giving him, you know, the military welcome, by the smiles, the round of applause, all of that. And-

   5. KSKara Swisher22:54

      Which is what he wants, but go ahe-

   6. APAbby Phillip22:56

      Which, right, which would work for him, but Putin doesn't really care about those things.

   7. KSKara Swisher23:01

      Mm-hmm.

   8. APAbby Phillip23:01

      He wants what he wants-

   9. KSKara Swisher23:02

      Very, very important.

   10. APAbby Phillip23:03

       ... in the interest of Russian empire, which is what he wants to reestablish. And so, I, I still think we don't know terribly, uh, much about what was talked about and de- decided. There was some talk of security guarantees that do not involve NATO. So, the obvious question is, what does that really look like? But I think that the devil is 100, 1,000% in the details here, because-

   11. KSKara Swisher23:28

       Which is not Trump's strong suit.

   12. APAbby Phillip23:29

       Not ... Exactly. I, I do think that's the problem, is that Putin is worried about the details. Trump, not so much. And the, the details also become insanely important to Ukraine, because they have been in a situation before where they've been given security guarantees and it's just ... Th- they've still been bulldozed as a result of it. Putin also wants to divide the United States and Europe. So, it is also in Putin's interest to disentangle Ukraine's security from Europe and NATO. And so, it, it does work in Putin's favor to say, "Well, we'll give you security guarantees, but it's not gonna involve NATO." So, w- will that fly? Something tells me no, it will not-

   13. KSKara Swisher24:12

       Right.

   14. APAbby Phillip24:12

       ... because that is-

   15. KSKara Swisher24:13

       Because he will, he will say, "We'll do it," and then won't do it, right, won't send-

   16. APAbby Phillip24:16

       Yes.

   17. KSKara Swisher24:17

       ... US troops A-

   18. APAbby Phillip24:17

       And e-

   19. KSKara Swisher24:17

       ... per se.

   20. APAbby Phillip24:18

       Exactly. Exactly. I also just wonder, I mean, how does the America First crowd feel about Trump giving security guarantees unilaterally-... perhaps. Like, are we gonna be sending troops?

   21. KSKara Swisher24:31

       Right, that's the thing, that they do not want that.

   22. APAbby Phillip24:33

       If Russia invades?

   23. KSKara Swisher24:34

       Yeah.

   24. APAbby Phillip24:34

       Because that's literally the thing that, that the America first crowd said that they did not want. So, I, I think that, um, there are a lot of words being spoken-

   25. KSKara Swisher24:46

       Yeah.

   26. APAbby Phillip24:46

       ... right now, but, you know, time will tell. I mean, I think it's very important that-

   27. KSKara Swisher24:50

       What was your takeaway from the summit itself? Obviously, the Trump people are trying to spin it as something positive, but nobody is.

   28. APAbby Phillip24:56

       I-

   29. KSKara Swisher24:56

       There's not even enough coverage.

   30. APAbby Phillip24:58

       Yeah.
3. 27:33 – 29:06

   Melania’s Letter to Putin

   1. KSKara Swisher27:33

      by the way, First Lady Melania Trump entered the chat, oddly. She wrote what's being called a peace letter to Putin that Trump hand-delivered at the summit. In the letter, she tells Putin it's time to protect children and says he can single-handedly restore their, uh, melodic laughter. It was a strange letter, but I see her point. Some people are wondering if the letter was AI-generated. They don't know. Um, it's about the b- children that Russia has taken from Ukraine and are bringing to Russia. It's really quite a heinous act on behalf of, uh, of, uh, of the Russians. Um, a- any thoughts on this? Were you surprised?

   2. APAbby Phillip28:06

      I'm not surprised, no, 'cause I, I, I think this is how Melania likes to engage in these things. She picks an aspect of it that she thinks is sort of universal, which I think this probably is, and weighs in, um, and I think it's, it's fine. I think it's, it's good and it's nice. D- do I think it matters? No.

   3. KSKara Swisher28:30

      No.

   4. APAbby Phillip28:30

      But it-

   5. KSKara Swisher28:30

      Yeah, she's somewhat anti-Putin from what I can read, that she's the one shifting him over a little more against... She's obviously from countries-

   6. APAbby Phillip28:38

      P- perhaps.

   7. KSKara Swisher28:38

      ... where this... Yeah.

   8. APAbby Phillip28:39

      Right, yeah. I mean, I think that would make sense, just like given her background, but, but I also think that... I mean, she has a lot of influence over her husband, so-

   9. KSKara Swisher28:49

      She does.

   10. APAbby Phillip28:50

       ... if it, if it were me, I think that's probably the best place to exert influence, is with the President of the United States.

   11. KSKara Swisher28:58

       Yeah, presumably. Yeah, I was sort of surprised, but it was a strange letter, but (laughs) I was like, "Okay, sure."

   12. APAbby Phillip29:04

       Okay. Yeah.

   13. KSKara Swisher29:04

       Um, we'll see what happens. Um, talk

4. 29:06 – 35:58

   Trump Gets Support for DC Takeover

   1. KSKara Swisher29:06

      a little bit about, uh, this takeover of Washington. You don't live there any longer, but, um, he's... Republican governors from three states are sending National Guard troops to DC, joining already 800 mobilized in the Capitol. The Wall Street Journal is reporting that Guard troops may soon be carrying weapons, which is frightening for a DC resident-

   2. APAbby Phillip29:22

      Yeah.

   3. KSKara Swisher29:22

      ... like myself, a reversal from the original orders, but the Trump administration has backed off its offic- uh, original push to take over the police force after the city filed an emergency restraining order, calling Trump's actions a hostile takeover. It's been one week since Trump announced the takeover. He's obviously putting, uh, troops on display in places where there's not high crime, um, uh, such as at Union Station or on 14th Str- I mean, there is, there's petty crime on 14th Street really for the most part, but what do you think about what's happening there, uh, as a former DC resident, and what it represents?

   4. APAbby Phillip29:55

      (sighs) Um-

   5. KSKara Swisher29:58

      (laughs) Big long sigh.

   6. APAbby Phillip29:59

      Yeah, a long sigh. I mean, I... You know, Kara, I was there on Friday, um, briefly, very briefly, and I don't know if you feel this way. I don't, I don't know how recently you were... 'cause you travel so much, but I was shocked by how quiet and almost deserted the city felt. In-

   7. KSKara Swisher30:19

      Well, it could be summer, but yeah.

   8. APAbby Phillip30:21

      It could be the summer, but it was striking, and then... So, I say that, and I... That was my gut feeling. I was like, "This is odd." I was in the middle of Chinatown. There were no people. Um-

   9. KSKara Swisher30:32

      Yeah, restaurants are down-

   10. APAbby Phillip30:33

       And so-

   11. KSKara Swisher30:33

       ... restaurant reservations-

   12. APAbby Phillip30:34

       Right, so then-

   13. KSKara Swisher30:35

       ... tourism.

   14. APAbby Phillip30:36

       There's this reporting about the, a dramatic drop, 25%, 33% in restaurant, um, reservations and foot traffic in bars. Bars are ... You know, these businesses are just saying, "This is totally unsustainable." And, look, I, we will know more later, but l- j- I'm starting there just because th- the premise of this whole thing is that DC residents want this deep down inside because they wanna feel safer so that they can go about their lives without fear or threat of violence against them.

   15. KSKara Swisher31:09

       Yeah, we don't fear that, but go ahead. Yeah.

   16. APAbby Phillip31:10

       But the reality of it is that people are avoiding being in the city right now.

   17. KSKara Swisher31:16

       Mm-hmm.

   18. APAbby Phillip31:16

       Because nobody wants to live in a society that is militarized.

   19. KSKara Swisher31:20

       Right, no.

   20. APAbby Phillip31:20

       They don't.

   21. KSKara Swisher31:21

       I don't like going to countries that are militar- when you go to countries-

   22. APAbby Phillip31:23

       Nobody likes going to countries that are militarized. When we travel, I've been to places that are mil- more militarized than here and you see the tanks in the street and the, the, the guards with-

   23. KSKara Swisher31:34

       Guns.

   24. APAbby Phillip31:34

       ... you know, with the, with the, um, semi-automatic weap- long guns and all that stuff. It does not make you feel more safe.

   25. KSKara Swisher31:41

       No.

   26. APAbby Phillip31:41

       It makes you feel surveilled.

   27. KSKara Swisher31:44

       Right.

   28. APAbby Phillip31:44

       And I think that th- th- the, the, the proof is in the pudding. So even if you take their premise that DC is so unsafe that there's a quiet support for this in, among people who live there, I think the proof is that that's not the case.

   29. KSKara Swisher32:01

       No.

   30. APAbby Phillip32:01

       'Cause otherwise they would be running around like l- you know-
5. 35:58 – 46:15

   Gavin Newsom’s Trolling

   1. NANarrator35:58

   2. KSKara Swisher35:58

      Abby, we're back. California Governor Gavin Newsom can play (laughs) President Trump's social media game too. He's quite good at it. Newsom's press office, uh, social media feed has been focused on capital letters and AI memes mocking the president's tactics and it's winning the attention game. The strategy is part of Newsom's response to Trump-backed redistricting plan in Texas. That's where it began. The California governor's responded by saying he would pursue a special election to redraw California's congressional maps to offset Republican gains. It's a dicey thing to do 'cause other states could also participate. A post from, uh, Newsom's office reads, in all caps, "Donald Trump, the lowest polling president in recent history, this is your second-to-last warning. Stand down now or California will counterstrike," in parentheses, " (legally) to destroy your illegal crooked maps and red states." Meme posts include comparing Stephen Miller to Lord Voldemort, responding to a photo, uh, of a rainbow over Marine One with "Happy Pride," an image of Newsom on the cover of Time Magazine saying, "Long Live the King." Meanwhile, Texas Democrats who fled the state to stall redistricting plans have returned. The state legislature wrapped its first special session last week with Governor Greg Abbott quickly calling for a second special session.Talk about what Newsom's doing here in your thoughts. You know, the, the right is trying very hard to say he's cringy and this and that. I think he's very funny. Um, it's getting a lot of attention and certainly a lot of views, et cetera. But what, what is happening here from your perspective with him, and has he break the code on how to break through in the Trump era?

   3. APAbby Phillip37:22

      You know, I, I, my views on Newsom are that (sighs) he, he's trying to get attention and he's getting attention. And I think, I think that you enjoy it. I, I'm neutral on it. I don't... It, it's all just trolling, fine. My filter on some of this stuff is, what's the actual electoral impact? Because you can rally the base, you can make Democrats... You can tickle their funny bone with this stuff.

   4. KSKara Swisher37:49

      Mm-hmm.

   5. APAbby Phillip37:49

      And-

   6. KSKara Swisher37:50

      Good point.

   7. APAbby Phillip37:50

      ... that's great. But at the end of the day, Democrats need to start winning elections.

   8. KSKara Swisher37:56

      Yeah.

   9. APAbby Phillip37:56

      So, after all of this is done, what I want to know is what are they actually doing to change the electoral reality in the country? Because that's the ultimately the only thing that matters. I mean, on the redistricting bit of it, is it a race to a bottom? Ab- absolutely. Um, it was, it's interesting that, um, Arnold Schwarzenegger is, like, very much opposed to this.

   10. KSKara Swisher38:21

       Yeah, he had a... When he was governor, he passed something that could, they couldn't do this, he was trying to get to-

   11. APAbby Phillip38:25

       Yeah, and, and has made it more difficult. And, and even within that paradigm, you know, Gavin Newsom is still trying to actually... I mean, it's the hard way. You have to take it to a referendum in order to get this to happen. So, I mean, look, if he's able to take it to a referendum and get a, get approval from voters to redistrict, then by... I, I guess by all means. But I do think, and I see this a lot, Democrats do get held to a higher sort of almost, like, moral standard than Republicans do on stuff like this. Um, there's always the question of, why aren't you moving to the middle? Why aren't you trying to appeal to moderates? Meanwhile, the, the fact of the matter is, is that Trumpism and the rise of MAGA has occurred by completely ignoring this, even the mildest concept of moderation. I mean, Trump and, and Republicans have gone as farther to the right than they have been-

   12. KSKara Swisher39:23

       Right, they don't care about-

   13. APAbby Phillip39:24

       ... in a very long time.

   14. KSKara Swisher39:25

       ... the RINOs at all.

   15. APAbby Phillip39:26

       Yeah.

   16. KSKara Swisher39:26

       They don't care.

   17. APAbby Phillip39:26

       So, I do think that it's worthwhile, Democrats saying, "Okay, let's, let's really address the desires of voters here." And if this is what their voters are asking for, I think that, that politics is the business of, um, you know, adding and not subtracting, so building support for, for people, with people for the things that you want to accomplish. And I think Democrats probably do need to start listening to their voters more and I'm not sure how many of them are asking for this sort of, like, mushy middle.

   18. KSKara Swisher39:58

       Mm-hmm.

   19. APAbby Phillip39:58

       They're asking for people to stand up-

   20. KSKara Swisher39:59

       I would agree.

   21. APAbby Phillip39:59

       ... for something.

   22. KSKara Swisher40:00

       Right.

   23. APAbby Phillip40:01

       And what that thing is, I think they're gonna have to figure out. But they do need to start standing up for something as opposed to trying to be-

   24. KSKara Swisher40:07

       So, com-

   25. APAbby Phillip40:07

       ... in this weird, like, not, neither here nor there place.

   26. KSKara Swisher40:10

       Neither place. Yeah, we're supposed to be real nice and the others can do whatever they want, in other words. Um, so when you, when you look at the Texas Democrats standing up, which they did, they fled the state to stall these plans. It does... May not work, um, but they did it. That's sort of a version of leadership. And then what Newsom's doing, how do you compare them? Like, what is... Do Democrats have to be doing things like this w- that show some level of backbone? 'Cause a lot of complaints you hear from Democrats are, "Everyone's a noodle," like Chuck Schumer or what, what- whoever it happens to be, noodles, noodles, noodles everywhere and they are kind of like this. Do you think it pays off from a, from a political point of view for Newsom or these Texas Democrats?

   27. APAbby Phillip40:49

       I, I think the Texas Democrats and it's an, it's an exercise in futility, but there was also a precedent for doing it. There was an attempt to do this very same thing in Texas, um, in the early 2000s. It, they, they, they did the same thing, they left the state. Uh, but ultimately the court sided with Texas Republicans in the redistricting fight. So they knew that this was going to end the way that it is ending. But, but more, you know, I think if they want to make a statement by leaving the state, then fine. I think that's totally fine to do. And I think that there is some value in showing your voters that you care enough to put yourself on the line, even if it's going to end-

   28. KSKara Swisher41:29

       If you-

   29. APAbby Phillip41:29

       ... a certain way.

   30. KSKara Swisher41:31

       Right.
6. 46:15 – 51:42

   Trump Admin’s Company Rankings

   1. KSKara Swisher46:15

      Abby, we're back with one more story. The Trump Administration has reportedly, uh, created a scoring system to rank 553 companies and trade associations based on support and promotion of Trump's Big Beautiful Bill. Um, factors in the rating include social media posts, press releases, ads, and attendance in White House events, very similar what they're doing to people who are immigrants, looking at their social media, looking at them, ca- uh, and law firms and, and universities, et cetera. Companies that had the honor of being labeled highly include Uber, uh, DoorDash, United, and AT&T. And one company may be looking to work its way up the rankings. Costco announced it wouldn't dispense mifepristone, the abortion medication, at its pharmacies. The company said the decision was made due to lack of demand. Uh, groups from both the left and right have been pla- uh, placing political pressure on Costco. Should we expect even more corporate sucking up a response this ranking? Why not? The law firms have and others have, uh, other administrations obviously have corporate favorites and they play it more quietly. Um, h- how do you look at this ranking? It's sort of the list, you're on our list kind of thing, which Trump has done any number of ways with other groups of people.

   2. APAbby Phillip47:20

      Yeah, I mean, uh, it- it's not surprising at all. I mean, I, I know many people who, um, work on K Street and they've been operating in this environment since the very beginning with Trump where there's a clear s- there has always been a clear sense that you have to prove your loyalty to Trump by, um, things that you say publicly, things that you say privately, um, your willingness to put money behind the things that you do. They, that's how they've been operating from the beginning. So, now we just know that there's like a spreadsheet that they're using to keep track. (laughs)

   3. KSKara Swisher47:52

      Right, yeah. Yeah.

   4. APAbby Phillip47:53

      But, but the truth of the matter is, is that, um... And the way I look at this is that corporations, um, especially multinational ones, which is what we're talking about here in most cases, they operate all over the world. They operate in free countries and they operate in unfree countries. They operate with strongmen and they operate with democratically elected leaders. And so, they have been doing this dance-

   5. KSKara Swisher48:15

      Perfect.

   6. APAbby Phillip48:15

      ... in other parts of the world for a very long time. They are not new to this, so they know how to operate in Trump's America. Their willingness to very quickly adjust to a White House that A, wants loyalty, B, wants control... I mean, Trump doesn't just want them to say nice things. He also wants to own shares of private corporations.

   7. KSKara Swisher48:38

      In- yeah, Intel and-

   8. APAbby Phillip48:38

      He wants to tell them how to operate their boards.

   9. KSKara Swisher48:40

      ... Midoobay.

   10. APAbby Phillip48:40

       He wants to hire their economists. He wants to... All of it. He wants his hand in all of it.

   11. KSKara Swisher48:47

       Right.

   12. APAbby Phillip48:48

       But they know how to deal with that and they're, and they... And I think if people thought that corporate America was gonna be like the place where-

   13. KSKara Swisher48:54

       Yeah. (laughs)

   14. APAbby Phillip48:54

       ... there was gonna be resistance to Trump, you are not paying attention.

   15. KSKara Swisher48:58

       Last place.

   16. APAbby Phillip48:58

       Yeah, no.

   17. KSKara Swisher48:58

       Yeah.

   18. APAbby Phillip48:58

       It's the last place, right? They-

   19. KSKara Swisher49:00

       It's particularly unctuous and, and repulsive, but you know.

   20. APAbby Phillip49:04

       It's... They, they have a fiduciary responsibility-

   21. KSKara Swisher49:07

       Yep, I've said that.

   22. APAbby Phillip49:07

       ... to their shareholders to do what they need to do in order to-... to, to sail through this era of American history. And they-

   23. KSKara Swisher49:17

       Yeah, like Tim Cook getting that, getting that statue, everyone was so upset-

   24. APAbby Phillip49:20

       Totally.

   25. KSKara Swisher49:20

       ... I was like, "Are you kidding?"

   26. APAbby Phillip49:21

       Totally.

   27. KSKara Swisher49:22

       Of course he did.

   28. APAbby Phillip49:22

       And they are, they are going to do it. If you think that there is not a thing that they're willing to do, you are wrong.

   29. KSKara Swisher49:28

       Yeah, that's true.

   30. APAbby Phillip49:28

       Totally wrong.
7. 51:42 – 1:03:10

   Wins and Fails

   1. KSKara Swisher51:42

      Okay, Abby, let's hear some wins and fails. Would you like to go first or I can very quickly? Whatever you want.

   2. APAbby Phillip51:46

      You can go first.

   3. KSKara Swisher51:48

      Um, I think my, um, my win is Steve Wozniak. He's the co-founder of Apple, uh, Computer with Steve Jobs. Um, he, uh, he made an appearance in a thread about his lawsuit against YouTube over internet scammers using his likeness, which happens by the way to you, Abby, and to me and everyone else all, all across the internet. He said, "I gave all my Apple wealth away because wealth and power are not what I live for. I have a lot of fun and happiness. I funded a lot of important museums and arts groups in San Jose, the city of my birth, and they named a street after me for being good." He liked that. I remember him telling me about it. Um, he, he, he has about $10 million, I think, he says, of all the money he's made. Um, and he's always been like this. And I just like a reminder of someone like this, um, in this sort of get- get- while-the-getting's-good kind of thing. He's been a... He is a very happy, jolly person. Um, and I find it really nice that he... You know, there are other kinds of billionaires, they're not all the same or were very wealthy people. And he certainly has... His impact has been massive on, uh... So Steve Jobs gets all the attention, but Steve Wogn- Wozniak-

   4. APAbby Phillip52:50

      Yeah.

   5. KSKara Swisher52:50

      ... was also critical to Apple, which we all use today. And so I really like that. Um, my fail is, uh, something I talked about with Rachel last week was the name Versant, um, which is the new company about to, um, come out. And we were joking it sounds like, uh, you know, a medication that would be advertised on late night cable, uh, to resi- resolve your wa- your rash, and results may vary. Um, but they're, they're now having to change MSNBC, which when it was started, it was Microsoft NBC. That's where it came from. I was there when it was started, uh, when they had that deal a long time ago. Um, now it's changed to MS, MSNOW, which is short for MySource News Opinion World. What? Uh, Semafor's Josh Billinson said, "MSNOW sounds like a short-lived Windows operating system for the early 2000s-"

   6. APAbby Phillip53:38

      (laughs)

   7. KSKara Swisher53:38

      "... that needlessly redesigned too much and failed to, to be adapted by a mass critical..." (laughs)

   8. APAbby Phillip53:42

      This, this is bad, Karen.

   9. KSKara Swisher53:44

      I know. MSNOW.

   10. APAbby Phillip53:44

       I... Sorry to say, but it's, uh-

   11. KSKara Swisher53:47

       Uh, you can say. (laughs)

   12. APAbby Phillip53:48

       It doesn't-

   13. KSKara Swisher53:48

       CNN has stuck with its-

   14. APAbby Phillip53:48

       ... it doesn't roll, it doesn't roll off the tongue.

   15. KSKara Swisher53:51

       Does not roll off the... I don't know what you... Do you have a name you'd call it? Uh, any, anything?

   16. APAbby Phillip53:56

       I don't know. I'm... That's the thing. It's like how do you, how to rename a thing-

   17. KSKara Swisher53:59

       Yeah.

   18. APAbby Phillip53:59

       ... in this day and age?

   19. KSKara Swisher54:00

       Yeah. Yeah.

   20. APAbby Phillip54:00

       It's so hard.

   21. KSKara Swisher54:01

       Yeah.

   22. APAbby Phillip54:01

       I mean, I, I, I empathize because-

   23. KSKara Swisher54:03

       Yeah.

   24. APAbby Phillip54:03

       ... there are no g- there are no good choices here-

   25. KSKara Swisher54:06

       No.

   26. APAbby Phillip54:06

       ... to be frank.

   27. KSKara Swisher54:07

       MSNOW is not-

   28. APAbby Phillip54:08

       You know?

   29. KSKara Swisher54:09

       (laughs) Short for Windows op-

   30. APAbby Phillip54:10

       Was it My, Mysource?

Episode duration: 1:03:10