Will Nepo Billionaire Buy Warner Bros. Discovery? | Pivot

Scott Galloway 0:00 ... no sane, rational buyer can bid on this. This is who can bid on this: the children of people who made $90 billion in one day.

Kara Swisher 0:10 (instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher from Korea. Hello, Scott.

Scott Galloway 0:22 Uh, how are... So give me your impressions of Seoul. Tell me all about it.

Kara Swisher 0:26 Well, I'm drinking bubble tea, of course. Um, I was in the Gangnam region, uh, today with all the lights and all the young people and all the plastic surgery area. Um, it's great actually. It's very clean. It's very vibrant. Um, young people wandering everywhere. Um, uh, it feels good. I mean, I think they feel very emboldened by pushing down the martial law thing 'cause they're good at and we're not. Um, and, uh, and they... It feels very vibrant. It feels like it's... It's not a lot different from the last time I was here, I'll be honest with you. But, uh, I like Korea quite a bit. I don't... How many times have you been here?

Scott Galloway 1:04 Well, you know, it's painful for me 'cause I, I had a Korean friend who died.

Kara Swisher 1:08 (sighs)

Scott Galloway 1:08 He was so young.

Kara Swisher 1:09 Uh-huh.

Scott Galloway 1:09 So young.

Kara Swisher 1:10 Oh, no. (laughs) I can't believe you told that joke. (laughs) Oh...

Scott Galloway 1:15 That's good. That's, that's the only Korean joke I could find that was only mildly racist.

Kara Swisher 1:19 Oh. Oh my God, that is racist. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:21 Get it? So young.

Kara Swisher 1:22 Oh my God. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:22 So young. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 1:23 Okay. Anyway, it's weird to think that I'm this close to, like, North Korea. Like, it must be so stressful to be near a country that wants to bomb you out of existence and stuff. So, that's a weird thing to feel.

Scott Galloway 1:35 I don't know. Just go to a pro-Pali rally at Columbia.

Kara Swisher 1:38 Oh, stop it. Don't even. Don't-

Scott Galloway 1:39 Sorry.

Kara Swisher 1:40 Don't even.

Scott Galloway 1:41 Couldn't, couldn't resist.

Kara Swisher 1:41 With... Trump is, like, ripping the White House down. I'm not even gonna, like...

Scott Galloway 1:44 Oh, I agree. I, I... Is... Have you ever seen a visual metaphor that's more apt-

Kara Swisher 1:48 Ugh, so much. We'll get, we'll get to that.

Scott Galloway 1:49 ... than the East-

Kara Swisher 1:50 We'll get to that.

Scott Galloway 1:50 ... wing being torn down? (laughs)

Kara Swisher 1:51 I mean, seriously. I'm sorry. Everybody gets a pass, except for Trump. Anyway, I think... I mean, like, I... Release the Epstein files. That's all I have to say about this. Like, it's another-

Scott Galloway 2:00 That's right.

Kara Swisher 2:01 ... it's another thing. Any... We'll talk about it in a minute 'cause we've got a lot to get to today, including, um, Tesla and Netflix earnings, which are really interesting, and OpenAI taking aim at Google with its new browser. But first,

Kara Swisher 2:12 uh, Warner Bros. Discovery announced this week it's officially exploring a sale, uh, after getting takeover interest, uh, for some, or part, of the company earlier this year. Uh, Warner Bros. announced a plan to split in two, separating its studio and streaming from its legacy cable networks. CNN is the most famous of those, but there's... They have several. Now, it's, uh, it's open to an alternative separation structure. I mean, David Zaslav's saying the obvious 'cause it's, uh, rejected three takeover offers from Paramount's, uh, David Ellison. Other rumored suitors include Comcast, Amazon, Apple, and Netflix. Uh, S- Scott, we've been talking about this, but you predicted in 2023 that Warner Bros. could face an activist event- investor. Let's listen.

Scott Galloway 2:52 I think you're gonna see an activist at Warner Bros. Discovery. The stock is now down to a point where I think there's a lot of upside as... Zaslav, to his credit, is reducing debt. And the assets here are trading at about, even including the debt, about half of what, uh, they paid, um, uh, they paid AT&T for the asset. So, uh, I think, I think that there's blood in the water. People see these assets, uh, have declined to a level where there's a decent amount of upside with not too much downside.

Kara Swisher 3:24 So it's not an activist investor, but it is, you know, other companies-

Scott Galloway 3:27 The ultimate activist is an acquisition.

Kara Swisher 3:29 Yeah, well... True, true. But it's... These are companies that want to... What, what we've also talked about, which is taking them, cutting costs, and consolidating-

Scott Galloway 3:36 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 3:36 ... which is a theme you and I have talked about quite a lot. Um, the idea of sort of taking, taking... You know, moving... And why should there be ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, et cetera? But that's not really the focus here. It's, um, it's, uh, the studios and streaming, I think, probably. So talk a little bit about this because one of the things... I've talked to a lot of people about this. And they feel like if the-

Scott Galloway 3:58 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 3:58 ... Ellisons, um, get to $26 a share, I think they're in the 24 area, it's a done deal, um, essentially.

Scott Galloway 4:06 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 4:06 Um, Zaslav is trying to make an auction happen, I guess. And, uh-

Scott Galloway 4:11 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 4:11 ... he's already in the money. He's gonna do really well himself. But, um, he's trying to argue that split apart, it's $30 or whatever once you split the two together, so why should they take a cheap offer from the Ellisons? And the Ellisons are trying to get the studio and the streaming cheap because once you split them up, there are a lot of suitors, right? Um, the only issue is that, uh, the others have, one, money problems comparatively to the Ellisons. And two, not a friend in Trump. Like Comcast, Brian Roberts, uh, is not a fa- a favorite of Trump. Um, Amazon probably is more so. Apple probably is more so. Netflix, probably not. Um, and so there'll be difficulties in, in picking up any of these things, except for the Ellisons, which is, of course... 'Cause we live in an autocracy, so friends of Trump get what they want. Um, talk a little bit... Antitrust concerns, of course, would be there, but not in this, not in this, uh, administration. Um, and it does, in a weird way, make a lot of sense to consolidate s- some of these assets with other assets. It just depends if the, the gimmes are spread around. But I... What are your thoughts on this?

Scott Galloway 5:21 Well, uh, so there's suitors that do it for economic reasons, and that is they see an opportunity to create scale or consolidate the backend or for growth. So they're buying it for financial reasons. There isn't a financial buyer here because this thing, it, it... The majority of its assets are in decline. And it never made any money.

Kara Swisher 5:42 Not the studio and streaming? Let... Or, or, or it's the-

Scott Galloway 5:45 Well, but-

Kara Swisher 5:46 ... CNN part?

Scott Galloway 5:47 But if you look at... But I think if you look at top line revenue here-

Kara Swisher 5:50 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 5:51 ... this isn't a company... This is not a growth company.

Kara Swisher 5:53 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 5:54 And also, the stuff... I mean, the problem is you have a mix-match, uh, um, assets. And that is the, the streaming company... The marketplace values growth. ... and, but that growth is expensive. And then the other stuff, the market does value EBITDA, but that stuff's declining. So what you have is, the marketplace wants a, a clean story. And if it was just, if it was just HBO and say Warner, the movie studio, that created a vertical integration of content to the streaming platform, and HBO is still, has an amazing culture and still manages to punch above its weight class, it would trade at a much larger multiple. But at the same time... And then it has these other assets that would trade at a lower multiple with a strong EBITDA. And when you have a mi- a mix-match of assets in terms of growth, complexion, and where they are in the business life cyc- cycle, the marketplace finds the shittiest part of the business-

Kara Swisher 6:46 Right, yeah, it does.

Scott Galloway 6:46 ... and assigns that multiple to the entire thing.

Kara Swisher 6:48 Right.

Scott Galloway 6:48 So, eh, eh, the merger never made any sense, except for David Zaslav. And David Zaslav... So what, uh, Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg, there's few people who have made more money while causing more harm to young people, right? But they have added tremendous shareholder value. From a shareholder standpoint, they deserve their, their billions. Um, the most overpaid CEOs relative to shareholder destruction were probably Marissa Mayer, who managed to fuck up everything at Yahoo and walk away with a quarter of a billion dollars, but she's about to lose the crown to David Zaslav. Because David has taken out about, I think, a third of a billion dollars so far for taking the stock from 24 bucks, where it was when they, he talked people into merging it, and has still managed to take that much money out of the company. And my guess is, uh, I mean, this is what's going on. I've been on these boards before. He's pretending there's other bidders. No sane, rational buyer can bid on this. This is who can bid on this, the children of people who made $90 billion in one day-

Kara Swisher 7:52 Which is Larry Ellison.

Scott Galloway 7:52 ... who want to go to the Academy Awards and have a big vision for AI and-

Kara Swisher 7:56 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 7:56 ... and will overpay for this thing.

Kara Swisher 7:58 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 7:58 And it's, it... Look what media's become. Media's become basically-

Kara Swisher 8:01 It's a plaything for them.

Scott Galloway 8:02 ... just a spa retreat-

Kara Swisher 8:03 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 8:03 ... for the, for the nepo billionaires. Who are the, who are the players here? The Bronfmans, Shari Redstone, David Ellison, what do they all have in common?

Kara Swisher 8:11 Daddies.

Scott Galloway 8:12 They're children of billionaires. Because any rational buyer... Comcast. Any rational buyer looks at this thing and says, "It doesn't pencil out for our shareholders."

Kara Swisher 8:21 So, the thing is-

Scott Galloway 8:21 And we don't-

Kara Swisher 8:22 Let me, let me just interject.

Scott Galloway 8:23 Go ahead.

Kara Swisher 8:23 Uh, Bill Cohen, who's been very smart on this I think, um, h- has noted that maybe Daddy won't do this. Daddy's a little... Larry is a little too smart. Like, at the same time, why not? It's like a go- get while the getting's good, and it would help Paramount to have the assets of, of Warner and HBO, and then they'll just spin off. Uh, they don't care about news, I'm sorry, they just don't. Th- all their choices tell me they don't care about news. But, you know, merge them together, cut costs, and then spin it off to some PE company. And I mean the, the cable networks, uh, and then bleed them dry. Um, cable and news, essentially. Is that how you see it or will they keep it? Just 'cause, why not?

Scott Galloway 9:01 I, I don't know. I don't, I don't know what is in the Ellison... I mean, at the end of the day, um, Larry Ellison is to David Ellison what Peter Thiel is to J.D. Vance, and that is-

Kara Swisher 9:12 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 9:12 ... when Larry Ellison calls his son David, David can never say no. It's like, "Look boss, (laughs) you, you, you have one credit card and it has my name on it."

Kara Swisher 9:20 Right.

Scott Galloway 9:20 "And you're allowed to use it, but at any moment I can tell you no." (laughs) And, uh, y- y- y- th- what I think is gonna happen-

Kara Swisher 9:28 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 9:28 ... I, I think El- the Ellisons are gonna get this, and Zaslav is pretending there's another suitor-

Kara Swisher 9:32 Yes.

Scott Galloway 9:32 ... which there isn't at this price.

Kara Swisher 9:34 Right, right.

Scott Galloway 9:34 And he's also, uh, I'll bet, spending more time trying to figure out, uh, his exit package, his golden-

Kara Swisher 9:41 Or how to stay in here, how to stay in here and have a fake role or-

Scott Galloway 9:45 Or pretend. Uh, all I know is he's gonna figure out a way to get another $100 to $300 million for sell the- selling the company at the price he talked other people into buying it for-

Kara Swisher 9:54 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 9:54 ... several years ago.

Kara Swisher 9:55 Or just slightly above, yeah.

Scott Galloway 9:56 And this guy's gonna walk away with Marissa Mayer-like compensation for adding no value here. But what I think they would do, is I, quite frank- I don't think, I don't buy into these hair on fire that they're trying to control the media. I don't think Larry Ellison is that Machiavellian. I, I don't think they're gonna try and take CNN and turn it right wing. I think they will probably sell it.

Kara Swisher 10:17 Yes, that's what I said.

Scott Galloway 10:17 I don't think they want to deal with it.

Kara Swisher 10:18 Yeah, like a PE firm.

Scott Galloway 10:19 Uh, so I agree with you.

Kara Swisher 10:21 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 10:21 What I do think they'll do is say, "Okay David, you get to go to the Academy Awards because we'll own Warner and HBO," and I think they're gonna take AI and Oracle's newfound kind of like... Ora- it was kind of a distant, Oracle is sort of a distant number two now to NVIDIA, and try and figure out a way to substantially reduce the cost of the production, uh, th- the means of production and create kind of a new, a true... Quibi, Meg Whitman at Quibi said, "We're bringing together the best of, of Silicon Valley and Southern California." Which I always thought wh- that's In-N-Out on a sourdough bun.

Kara Swisher 10:56 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 10:56 But, but these guys are gonna try and take content and say, "All right, they have amazing franchises, amazing IP. The biggest problem here is we need to reduce costs across the board by 30% and we can do that with AI."

Kara Swisher 11:09 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 11:09 "And we understand AI."

Kara Swisher 11:11 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 11:11 And you're just gonna see millions of TikToks of creators in the Hollywood community crying into their camera about how, you know, they no longer need 73 costume designers-

Kara Swisher 11:20 Yeah, especially the back end. Especially the, as I, I, I, that's the example I've used many times is they don't need costume designers, they can do storyboards. They can do all manner of things, you know, in, uh, much cheaper and it takes the cost from, you know... Someone was telling me you could take a cost from like three million to three 30,000, right? Versus something else. And I think one of the, one of the things that's hard here is, um, people are very in love with the idea of a CNN or a CBS, and, but these are declining audiences. So where do they... I think it's smart to grab this before, 'cause I, if there would be a, an auction for the studio and for Warner, W- Warner and HBO, there would be I think. I think there'd be a lot of interested buyers for that asset, right?

Scott Galloway 12:02 Oh, yeah.

Kara Swisher 12:03 Um, so if it gets away from the CNN part of it, that's, that's a problem for the Ellisons. So they want to get it on the cheap, right? Presumably. Or without a lot of trouble. Without a lot of bidding.... that, that, that's my assumption.

Scott Galloway 12:16 So none, none, none of these things are cheap. I mean, it's cha- uh, Warner Brothers Discovery now is, uh, in October of '25, uh, uh, right now, it's trading at a PE of 67. I think they want Warner and they want HBO, they want growth assets. The other stuff, they can sell to a PE player for cashflow that's consolidating the back end. I don't, I don't think their desire is to control the world of news. I don't think they wanna step into that Thunderdome. But you have, I mean, y- y- you could see them right away doing a second auction to pay down some of the debt if they're gonna take out debt against this, and then try and ag- as I said again, bring together the peanut butter and chocolate of, of AI. You, you are, I think, what you've said, I think these new- I think all these newsrooms... Just for fun, I watch CBS, ABC, and NBC evening news. And they're, what, 24 minutes and six minutes of commercials? 22 minutes is the same fucking thing, and then they all, then they all pick a different, uh, feelgood story, uh, uh, you know, again, about a moose that keeps showing up because this old lady fed it once. And, uh, they're literally, why on earth is the difference... uh, their newsrooms are no different.

Kara Swisher 13:35 Yeah, they have-

Scott Galloway 13:35 They're just no goddamn different.

Kara Swisher 13:36 ... they're, they're, they'll listen. Every now and then, le- as m- as does any news organization, they come up with a good one, right? Like, so CBS 60 Minutes still is quite good, for example. I bet they sell that off. I, I, I bet they sell that off. That's my prediction here. Um, some, CBS, uh, Sunday Morning is good.

Scott Galloway 13:52 I can't, you know what? I, I don't know what I would do if I wasn't able to watch Andrew Ross Sorkin explain the stock market-

Kara Swisher 13:57 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 13:57 ... to an 83-year-old Lesley Stahl. I just don't-

Kara Swisher 14:00 No, but it-

Scott Galloway 14:00 So stocks-

Kara Swisher 14:01 ... watch it more or what. That wasn't-

Scott Galloway 14:01 When they, when there's more demand-

Kara Swisher 14:04 Don't be mean to Andrew.

Scott Galloway 14:04 ... than sellers-

Kara Swisher 14:05 And don't be mean to Lesley.

Scott Galloway 14:05 ... the stock price goes up.

Kara Swisher 14:06 No, no, here's the, th- it's a good brand.

Scott Galloway 14:08 Jesus Christ.

Kara Swisher 14:09 It's still a great... There are pieces of it that you could do, you could presume, I could do something with it, Scott.

Scott Galloway 14:14 Oh, Fa- Face the Nation is an important one.

Kara Swisher 14:16 Face the Na- I could-

Scott Galloway 14:17 There, there, there's a couple.

Kara Swisher 14:17 If I had a couple of those assets-

Scott Galloway 14:18 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 14:18 ... I would do, I would have lots of ideas of how to digitize it and make it more relevant.

Scott Galloway 14:22 Yeah, and you'd, you'd take something they spent a billion dollars on and, and-

Kara Swisher 14:26 Right.

Scott Galloway 14:26 ... and make it worth 120 million.

Kara Swisher 14:27 Right.

Scott Galloway 14:27 These things don't-

Kara Swisher 14:28 Right.

Scott Galloway 14:29 Unfortunately-

Kara Swisher 14:29 Well, I wouldn't have to pay-

Scott Galloway 14:29 ... journalism is a shitty business.

Kara Swisher 14:31 ... $120 billion. So one of the things, w- you know, that's really interesting here is that, um, y- and, uh, and what th- the media gets all, you know, like, "Oh, no, CBS," and see, and I was like, you know they're declining businesses, like, really by an audience point of view, and that's, that's the problem. And when you talked about ABC, CBS, they are all the same. Many years ago, I'll tell a very brief story, I was with, um, I'm not gonna say who it was. It was a m- it was a ne- I was on this network thing and they showed a package. You know when they do those packages, um, where, like, the, they, the, the anchor sits there and interviews people on a, like, a, like, a, uh, a gradiated stage where people are sitting? It was, it was a big news event that happened 10 years before and they interviewed people from the day, right? And I was sitting next to Ken Burns, who had just done this really wonderful documentary on, um, the Gettysburg Address, which just happens to be one of my favorite pieces of writing, right? I- in our American history. And so I was talking to him during the package and the host turned to me and he said, "Why aren't you watching my package?" And I don't know why I said this, and I said it without thinking 'cause I was very interested in talking to Ken about this documentary 'cause it was so good, I said, "Well, if it was interesting, I'd watch it." And (laughs) he looked at me, he goes, "Well, that's harsh." I go, "It's not interesting. Like, it's the same shit. You're always doing the same exact setup." And this was five, 10 years ago. And I just was like, "You have to make stuff people wanna watch," right? Like, and I just couldn't look at it, and it, uh, and that's what they, they all are the same in some ways, and there's little points of difference sometimes that are really promising. I still think 60 Minutes is an amazing brand. I think it's, I think you could do a lot with that brand. And it does, it does rather well online once they get it up there.

Scott Galloway 16:11 Does it? I don't-

Kara Swisher 16:11 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 16:12 Uh, but, but w- th- uh, look, these things are being picked apart limb by limb because-

Kara Swisher 16:17 Right.

Scott Galloway 16:17 ... you have something like The Atlantic, which does an amazing job-

Kara Swisher 16:20 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 16:20 ... and brings together, I think, some of the most talented writers in the world.

Kara Swisher 16:23 Right.

Scott Galloway 16:23 But I think a guy like Derek Thompson is prolific and has tapped into, like, you know, he's, he's under the age of 40 so he feels like there are grandchildren walking around these places. Uh, he goes to Substack and he's making more money on Substack now.

Kara Swisher 16:37 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 16:38 I think a lot of the truly great individual contributors-

Kara Swisher 16:41 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 16:42 ... are gonna w- use the platform for prestige-

Kara Swisher 16:45 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 16:45 ... and then veer off and do their own thing.

Kara Swisher 16:47 Hi, nice to meet you. (laughs) What do you th- what do you think I've been doing-

Scott Galloway 16:49 Well-

Kara Swisher 16:49 ... all this time (laughs) at The New York Times-

Scott Galloway 16:51 Exactly.

Kara Swisher 16:52 ... and everything? But-

Scott Galloway 16:52 So here's the, here's the reality, you can-

Kara Swisher 16:53 ... there is, there's more to it. Let me just say, The Atlantic under Jeff Goldberg, like, uh, and also WIRED under Katy Drummond, they found invigoration in terms of higher subscriptions. They're doing pretty good with those, th- only the editors that are invigorating are doing okay, like, comparatively to, to the individual players, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 17:11 Yeah, but, uh, y- you're, you're the perfect example and, and that is you're at The Washington Post, you could be the premier tech pers- tech reporter, you were the premier tech reporter at The Washington Post, The New York Times-

Kara Swisher 17:22 The Wall Street Journal.

Scott Galloway 17:23 You make a half a million, you, you, uh, okay, sorry, and The Wall Street Journal, excuse me. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 17:27 That's where I

Narrator 17:27 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 17:27 Off with his head. Um, anyways, let's be generous and assume with comp and everything, and you make a half a million bucks a year-

Kara Swisher 17:35 Not the salary, no.

Scott Galloway 17:37 ... you start a fucking podcast.

Kara Swisher 17:37 Uh, that's 'cause I created the conference. I made more than that, but-

Scott Galloway 17:40 Well, okay, 150, 200.

Kara Swisher 17:42 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 17:42 My point is-

Kara Swisher 17:42 That's crazy.

Scott Galloway 17:43 ... you make 10 or 20 times more than that-

Kara Swisher 17:45 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 17:45 ... finding, finding a guy who tells dick jokes-

Kara Swisher 17:48 Yes.

Scott Galloway 17:48 ... and doing your own thing.

Kara Swisher 17:48 And now racist jokes.

Scott Galloway 17:49 So-

Kara Swisher 17:50 (laughs) A career, go ahead.

Scott Galloway 17:53 So young? So young as racist? I'm making fun of you now?

Kara Swisher 17:55 I understand. I'm gonna... I'll allow it.

Scott Galloway 17:59 I love Korean baseball players. They often hit it out of the park.

Kara Swisher 18:02 Oh my God, oh Jesus.

Scott Galloway 18:03 Is that racist?

Kara Swisher 18:05 Anyway, finish up with this. So, so what happ- so th- I s- the, the news to PE, the m- the, the studio stuff-

Scott Galloway 18:12 The cable, the cable-

Kara Swisher 18:13 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 18:13 The ad-supported cable stuff gets sold off, uh, you know, to, the, to just get the m- just get rid of that shit. They, it's more trouble than it's worth for them.

Kara Swisher 18:21 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 18:21 And no, but they're getting this. I think the deal is probably done, Kara-

Kara Swisher 18:24 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 18:24 ... because no rational buyer, they're, they're going on record and they're creating... I doubt Comcast- (laughs)

Kara Swisher 18:31 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 18:31 ... is anywhere near... Comcast is like, "Well call us if you'd take 11 bucks a share."

Kara Swisher 18:36 Right.

Scott Galloway 18:36 "Because that's what we would need to pay for this thing to be able to-"

Kara Swisher 18:38 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 18:39 "... explain to our shareholders in an earnings call why we paid-"

Kara Swisher 18:42 Right.

Scott Galloway 18:42 You know, we can't justify anything above that. David Ellison's, uh, criteria are different-

Kara Swisher 18:48 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 18:48 ... because he, he is the son of a guy making $90 billion in a day when he announces-

Kara Swisher 18:52 We're here (overlapping dialogue)

Scott Galloway 18:52 ... a contract with OpenAI.

Kara Swisher 18:53 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 18:54 So, and that's what media's become. It's become a series of irrational buyers whose parents are, you know, worth hundreds of billions of dollars. This thing goes to the Ellisons, they will spin off the news. It's not a Machiavellian attempt to control the, to enter thought control. They'll get as much as they can, and then I think they're going to use Warner and HBO and some of the content, or some of the studios as their playground-

Kara Swisher 19:19 On, uh, on TikTok.

Scott Galloway 19:20 ... to do really interesting shit with AI.

Kara Swisher 19:22 And on, and on TikTok.

Scott Galloway 19:23 I mean, it-

Kara Swisher 19:23 Yeah, which they also have control of-

Scott Galloway 19:25 Again, I'm, I'm about to s-

Kara Swisher 19:26 ... over.

Scott Galloway 19:26 That's a real... You know what? I hadn't thought of that.

Kara Swisher 19:28 That's the most-

Scott Galloway 19:29 TikTok and what-

Kara Swisher 19:30 ... important thing here.

Scott Galloway 19:30 That is really-

Kara Swisher 19:31 TikTok's the most important thing here.

Scott Galloway 19:32 That is really an interesting... Taking that content and slicing it up and putting it on TikTok. But the, it all comes back... The, occasionally I have one of those mind blown moments. When I was into Fantastic Four-

Kara Swisher 19:43 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 19:44 ... the credits took seven minutes.

Kara Swisher 19:46 I know. I, I just did that the other day.

Scott Galloway 19:47 As many, as many people worked on the Fantastic Four-

Kara Swisher 19:51 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 19:51 ... as work at Palantir or Reddit.

Kara Swisher 19:54 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 19:54 And it's a risk. They don't know how this thing's gonna do.

Kara Swisher 19:56 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 19:56 It, they, that business, it... Other than healthcare-

Kara Swisher 20:01 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 20:01 ... I think big budget content production is the most vulnerable thing to AI right now.

Kara Swisher 20:07 Yeah. Much, very much so.

Scott Galloway 20:08 They're just gonna go line by line and go, "Do we really need 22 costume designers for our shoot in Sweden?"

Kara Swisher 20:14 Mm-hmm. "Do we really need Sweden?"

Scott Galloway 20:16 Like, uh-

Kara Swisher 20:16 "Do we really need..." Every single thing will be, uh, you know, every single thing will be.

Scott Galloway 20:21 And all, all the existing guys, Iger and Zaslav, they are still very empathetic. And also, because they're all 100 years old, they don't want to rattle the unions and SAG actors' cages like this.

Kara Swisher 20:32 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 20:32 But Ellison-

Kara Swisher 20:33 They don't care.

Scott Galloway 20:33 Honey bear don't give a shit.

Kara Swisher 20:34 Honey bear don't care.

Scott Galloway 20:34 He's gonna be like, "Put out 10 block bu- Put out the new Superman."

Kara Swisher 20:39 Yeah, but Ellison is very talent friendly. He was involved, uh, very deeply in the Mission Impossible movies, the Star- new Star Trek movies, and of course, in Top Gun Maverick.

Scott Galloway 20:49 Yeah, he's a rich kid. I just had, I just had dinner with a friend of mine who's an amazing producer-

Kara Swisher 20:55 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 20:55 ... and does these incredible films.

Kara Swisher 20:57 Rich kid.

Scott Galloway 20:59 Kara, whenever I meet someone-

Kara Swisher 21:00 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 21:01 ... at an event and they say, "Oh," I'm like, "What do you do?" And like, "I produce documentaries." I'm like, "Oh, how did your husband get rich?" I mean, it, it, the people in this business, it's like meeting a kid who's working in an okay job, not a great job in New York and living in SoHo. It's like, "Oh, your parents are rich."

Kara Swisher 21:20 Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 21:20 No young person can live in Manhattan now-

Kara Swisher 21:23 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 21:23 ... unless they're working for JP Morgan or got transferred by Meta or their parents are rich.

Kara Swisher 21:28 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 21:28 And every player now in film production in Hollywood, effectively, is someone who is so fucking frighteningly talented they manage to break through.

Kara Swisher 21:38 They do.

Scott Galloway 21:38 They're literally the-

Kara Swisher 21:40 They do.

Scott Galloway 21:40 ... the, uh, and they're, and they're there, but they're in the .1%. They're the Michael Jordans of content.

Kara Swisher 21:45 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 21:46 Or their parents are putting them through Hollywood.

Kara Swisher 21:49 Or they're in the system. They're in the system. So you don't think Netflix is gonna try-

Scott Galloway 21:51 They're already there.

Kara Swisher 21:52 ... to weigh in here in any way?

Scott Galloway 21:53 They're running through.

Kara Swisher 21:53 Netflix. Th- that- that's the wire that you had, Netflix.

Scott Galloway 21:58 I don't... I think, I think Netflix is becoming like Apple in the sense that-

Kara Swisher 22:02 We'll just do it ourselves.

Scott Galloway 22:03 I think Ted Sarandos realized our culture is so strong-

Kara Swisher 22:06 We don't buy shit.

Scott Galloway 22:06 ... and so powerful.

Kara Swisher 22:07 That's what the CEO said.

Scott Galloway 22:08 We don't buy shit-

Kara Swisher 22:09 Great.

Scott Galloway 22:09 ... and then try and integrate it and deal with-

Kara Swisher 22:11 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 22:11 ... whoever's running fucking Warner Brother.

Kara Swisher 22:13 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 22:13 We don't, we don't... We have a way of doing things, we're outstanding at it.

Kara Swisher 22:18 Yeah, maybe Amazon.

Scott Galloway 22:18 And if he was gonna buy anything, if Sarandos was gonna buy anything, he should buy Disney.

Kara Swisher 22:21 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 22:21 Because he would just, he would, uh, that would be... They have a succession problem, the content.

Kara Swisher 22:26 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 22:26 They could have Disney as the fam- as Netflix family.

Kara Swisher 22:29 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 22:30 They would just own streaming.

Kara Swisher 22:31 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 22:31 They would-

Kara Swisher 22:31 That's the plan.

Scott Galloway 22:31 It would just sort of be game over.

Kara Swisher 22:33 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 22:33 But I don't even think... If I'm Ted Sarandos, it's like-

Kara Swisher 22:36 We need that shit.

Scott Galloway 22:36 ... we're so good at doing what we do. The, the, the, the existential threat, the only reason Netflix would potentially weigh in here is that they want to get a ton of content, so, b- to compete with YouTube. So for example, 20% of television viewing time last month is 12.6 of YouTube, 8.3% of Netflix. Netflix has squarely figured out YouTube is their competitor.

Kara Swisher 22:58 That's why they're doing podcasts.

Scott Galloway 22:59 And if, if you look at... What Netflix does need though, and the only reason they might weigh in here and buy some of this content or buy pieces of it post-acquisition by the big price they can't compete with, with the Ellisons, is Netflix's content library is roughly 36,000 hours long, right? That's their entire library.

Kara Swisher 23:18 Hmm.

Scott Galloway 23:18 36,000 hours. That's the same amount of content that YouTube users upload to the site-

Kara Swisher 23:25 Every second.

Scott Galloway 23:25 ... every 70 minutes.

Kara Swisher 23:27 Every second.

Scott Galloway 23:27 So every hour-

Kara Swisher 23:28 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 23:28 ... YouTube has uploaded content equal to the entire Netflix library.

Kara Swisher 23:32 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 23:32 And what you have-

Kara Swisher 23:33 And some of it's good.

Scott Galloway 23:34 ... is the two are gonna come together. YouTube content has, is gonna get much better. The only thing, the only, the thing moving podcasts in and out of the top 100 is the quality of their video game. And then you're gonna see Netflix start to look more like YouTube, and that is, they will figure out ways to have, quote unquote... A deal with the podcast, the deal with podcasts they just did is essentially them dipping their toe not in a podcast-

Kara Swisher 23:57 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 23:57 ... but into a form of user-generated content-

Kara Swisher 24:00 That's right.

Scott Galloway 24:00 ... that costs much less.

Kara Swisher 24:01 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 24:02 So you've got to see the means of production and the content come down on the one end, and it, the quality is going to go up on the bottom end.

Kara Swisher 24:08 Two things on the news, because I, I agree with you that they're, they're... Like this week, it's all like, the tyrr- the tyrra- We'll talk about the Tyrannosaurus because it's really kind of grotesque. But, um, but it- it's, it, what you said about why don't they take my two interviews a week on ON and make them into a show. I was like, "I had Bernie Sanders and Kamala Harris." You could have done a great, like-

Scott Galloway 24:27 By the way, it was great. I, I, I don't like to watch your stuff.

Kara Swisher 24:30 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 24:30 The, but I did break down... The interview with Bernie was great.

Kara Swisher 24:33 Yeah, it was good.

Scott Galloway 24:33 He's great.

Kara Swisher 24:34 Yeah, he was great.

Scott Galloway 24:34 He's really-

Kara Swisher 24:35 He was good. I could take a billionaire. I don't hate them all.

Scott Galloway 24:36 If, if he was-

Kara Swisher 24:38 Ugh, a good billionaire, it's fine.

Scott Galloway 24:40 Yeah, yeah.Some of them believe in democracy.

Kara Swisher 24:42 Did you like his little Democratic voice? That was my favorite thing. Oh, I think what they mean. He had a tiny little voice for the Democratic establishment that made me laugh hysterically.

Scott Galloway 24:51 If, like, literally, if that guy was seven years younger, I'd vote for him for president.

Kara Swisher 24:55 Yeah, a lot of people would.

Scott Galloway 24:56 Um-

Kara Swisher 24:56 That's why he was, all the Trump voters went to him.

Scott Galloway 24:59 He's fantastic.

Kara Swisher 24:59 Uh, let's move on. Let me ask you one more quick question here, one more very quick and answer quickly. So if you had, uh, w- would something like Versant want to buy a CNN and then merge their newsrooms and then have two good brand, two decent brands to try to work with or not at all? Like why bother? They get the n-

Scott Galloway 25:17 I think it's all about price.

Kara Swisher 25:17 Because they lost all the news stuff. They lost all their news stuff to NBC so they're building their own news organization. So why wouldn't they take a shortcut and get, because CNN has a very good news organization around the world. Just a thought, your thought.

Scott Galloway 25:30 I think, I think it's just, I think it's all about, I think it's all about price.

Kara Swisher 25:34 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 25:34 I don't, you know, there's a bunch of these upstarts and, and who's backing them?

Kara Swisher 25:38 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 25:39 It, CNN would probably, it would go for above market because it's such a powerful brand. But CNN, it has really stumbled the last 12 months.

Kara Swisher 25:50 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 25:51 I think its viewership is down something like 30%.

Kara Swisher 25:54 Yeah, it has, it really has.

Scott Galloway 25:55 I mean, it is really hurting right now and it's not even the content. Uh, uh, I think, I think Anderson Cooper, Kaitlan Collins, Dana Bash, Jake Tapper, they consistent, Michael Smerconish, they consistently, Fareed Zakaria, they have some of the finest journalists in the world.

Kara Swisher 26:11 Right, and across the globe by the way-

Scott Galloway 26:12 In the world.

Kara Swisher 26:12 Which people don't pay attention to.

Scott Galloway 26:13 Yeah, and backed by a what, a 1,200 or 2,000 person newsroom.

Kara Swisher 26:17 Yeah, huge newsroom, yeah.

Scott Galloway 26:18 These guys, they're great at what they do. It's the distribution and the business model that's fucked. And that is nobody's turning, even turning on their, the screen that is their primary distribution channel.

Kara Swisher 26:29 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 26:30 And they haven't figured out a way to monetize it on a very small screen.

Kara Swisher 26:33 Yeah, it's tough.

Scott Galloway 26:34 So it's-

Kara Swisher 26:35 That's all I'm saying.

Scott Galloway 26:35 It's-

Kara Swisher 26:35 Someone could consolidate these two, uh, be in, be the news organization and, and invigorate.

Scott Galloway 26:40 Comcast could buy it.

Kara Swisher 26:41 Comcast could buy it but so could Versant. Anyway, we'll see, we'll see if that happens. I think it's going to be a PE company and then, you know, hasta luego for Kara Swisher. Anyway, um, in any case, hasta luego for Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway 26:52 That's it, you're going to North Korea and you're not coming back? So young, he died so young.

Kara Swisher 26:57 Oh my God, I'm not going to let you do this anymore. Okay.

Scott Galloway 26:59 He died so young.

Kara Swisher 27:00 Uh, uh, uh, I'll start making Scottish jokes in a second. So, uh, let's go move on. Open-

Scott Galloway 27:06 Yeah, oatmeal savage.

Kara Swisher 27:07 Oh there, you did it. You did it. I knew you would. You're not even drinking.

Scott Galloway 27:09 What do the brightest people in Scotland have in common?

Kara Swisher 27:13 What?

Scott Galloway 27:13 They left, Kara.

Kara Swisher 27:14 Okay. (laughs) All right, very good. Okay.

Scott Galloway 27:16 That's actually true.

Kara Swisher 27:16 OpenAI-

Scott Galloway 27:17 Some of the finest minds-

Kara Swisher 27:18 I'm moving on.

Scott Galloway 27:18 ... in the history of science and economics and all that.

Kara Swisher 27:20 I'm trying to move on. I'm getting like exclamation

Kara Swisher 27:22 points from the producers. OpenAI has launched a web browser, Atlas. Sam Altman called it a once in a decade opportunity to rethink what a browser can be. The launch comes a few months after the company said it would be interested in buying Google's Chrome, uh, had it been, uh, forced, uh, into a sale. That it, uh, Chrome has three billion users worldwide. Um, talk a little bit about this and, um, also Reddit has sued Perplexity AI alleging the company scraped the comments of millions of Reddit users on an industrial scale. Again, these, uh, I'm gonna comment on the last one. These wars are gonna break out all over the place until the numbers get right, when they start paying. Perplexity has been the one that usually gets into the most trouble here. But talk a little bit about this browser because this browser knows, will remember everything you read, not just where your search was. They're gonna be like super browsers essentially.

Scott Galloway 28:12 I love this. I, I love competition. Um, uh, I think it's good.

Kara Swisher 28:17 There should be none.

Scott Galloway 28:18 I think the biggest, the biggest tax cut in the history, in modern economic history would be if the Chinese and, and American leadership decided to kiss and make up and stop starve attacking each other and take their tariffs to zero. The second biggest tax cut in history would be the breakup or more competition in big tech. I mean, people don't realize you are paying a huge toll. You don't realize it because it's, it's paid vis-a-vis advertisers trying to reach you, but probably the biggest corporate tax in America other than federal income tax is the tax of Alphabet to reach consumers online.

Kara Swisher 28:52 Right, in, in terms of advertising, right?

Scott Galloway 28:53 So the idea of the comp-

Kara Swisher 28:54 In terms of advertising.

Scott Galloway 28:57 You have to be on Google. If you want to acquire customers online, which is where all customers are now, you have to start increasingly buying search keywords and, and boost your videos on YouTube.

Kara Swisher 29:10 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 29:10 These are the biggest toll booths in the history of mankind for corporations. And so I, and they don't have competition so every year they raise their prices or the taxes they charge consumer and B2B brands greater than inflation. So these companies need competition. There's some more existential things going on here. One, Sam has to figure out a way to become kind of Google before Google becomes-

Kara Swisher 29:34 Right, it.

Scott Galloway 29:34 ... OpenAI.

Kara Swisher 29:35 Right, that's exactly, well said.

Scott Galloway 29:36 So him launching, him launching a browser makes a lot of sense. I like that it tracks your searches. I don't, I, I, I think all of the concern that was in your voice around privacy, I understand, but anyone who come- who's talking about privacy is usually over the age of 50 and lives in Brussels or DC. Young people will tell Uber everything about where they... A thin layer of AI on top of your Uber records which, by the way, you cannot delete. You cannot delete your Uber record, your Uber driver history and that you, people will be able to figure out if you just terminated a pregnancy.

Kara Swisher 30:10 Yep.

Scott Galloway 30:11 If, your sexual orientation.

Kara Swisher 30:13 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 30:13 I mean, they'll be able to figure out everything based on where you're going and when.

Kara Swisher 30:16 They could do it now.

Scott Galloway 30:16 Uber has-

Kara Swisher 30:17 They don't need AI to do it.

Scott Galloway 30:18 They could do it now. So as long as there's a coupon and utility and I can see that my QX60 is parked around the corner, violate my privacy. That is what America has said. It's listening to our phone conversations so it can... And, and by the way, I'm down with that as long as we have judges who are gonna say, "No, ICE can't use this information to start rounding up people."

Kara Swisher 30:39 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 30:40 I, I, you know, I'm, I'm all about viol- violating my privacy in exchange for utility as long as we have thoughtful judges who err on the side of civil liberties.

Kara Swisher 30:47 Uh-oh.

Scott Galloway 30:47 Anyways-

Kara Swisher 30:47 Uh-oh, Scott, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 30:50 Yeah, yeah. Th- th- that's the- the operative term there is if, right? So w- w- what I think is the more interesting thing here is, first off, keep in mind, consumers are pretty lazy in terms of getting used to a certain UI. And even with all the existential threat that OpenAI supposedly poses to Google Search, they get, I think, roughly 96 times the traffic of ChatGPT still. And Google Search impressions were up 49% year over year. Alphabet was my stock pick of 2025, because I think people overestimate the threat, if you will. Chrome has a, roughly a market share of 70%, making it the most dominant web browser. Apple's-

Kara Swisher 31:31 It's not Microsoft's?

Scott Galloway 31:31 ... web browser, Safari, even with that unbelievable access-

Kara Swisher 31:34 It's not Microsoft's?

Scott Galloway 31:34 S- you know ... It's, Safari's at, at 14%.

Kara Swisher 31:39 Oh. Not Safari. That's Apple.

Scott Galloway 31:40 S-

Kara Swisher 31:41 Chrome is.

Scott Galloway 31:41 Yeah, C- Chrome. No, no, no. Chrome is, uh, y- you're thinking of Internet Explorer.

Kara Swisher 31:46 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 31:46 Chrome is, uh, Alphabet.

Kara Swisher 31:47 Mm-mm.

Scott Galloway 31:47 70%, 70% share.

Kara Swisher 31:50 And what is-

Scott Galloway 31:50 Google Chrome.

Kara Swisher 31:51 ... what is, what is Explorer's?

Scott Galloway 31:53 Well, remember-

Kara Swisher 31:53 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 31:53 ... Microsoft attempted to get into the game-

Kara Swisher 31:55 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 31:55 ... with Internet Explorer.

Kara Swisher 31:56 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 31:56 Remember, it put Netscape out of business.

Kara Swisher 31:57 Yeah. No, I know, but what is their, what is their market share?

Scott Galloway 32:01 I don't think it registers.

Kara Swisher 32:03 Right, okay. I don't know.

Scott Galloway 32:03 Um, I mean, basically, between Chrome and Safari, I mean, and then you have the weird ones like DuckDuckGo and shit like that. But basically, uh, w- what Sam has said is, "I want to bring AI into search," or, uh, "into browsing." And, uh, I mean, y- y- so let's look at some of the facts. Google has, uh, Google has an extremely strong competitor to ChatGPT in Gemini. Gemini has actually gained more share than any other company in, in, um, in AI. They have 400 million monthly users. It's now the fourth most popular free app on the, on the Apple App Store. Just two months ago, in August, it didn't even crap the top, crack the top 50. And according to multiple benchmarks, embedders on both Kalci and Polymarket, Google currently has the best performing AI model. Either way, I think, in my opinion-

Kara Swisher 32:54 Yeah, you're right.

Scott Galloway 32:55 ... Alphabet's still at 29 times earnings. It's a steal. For the, for roughly the multiple of S&P, you're getting a search business-

Kara Swisher 33:02 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 33:02 ... with 90-plus percent market share, the largest ever streaming service in the world, a dominant AI effort-

Kara Swisher 33:07 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 33:07 ... a digital ad network, Google Chrome-

Kara Swisher 33:09 You love-

Scott Galloway 33:09 ... Waymo.

Kara Swisher 33:09 You love you some Google. You love you some Google.

Scott Galloway 33:11 Two o- two other businesses that do over 30 billion in annual revenue and four other products that have two billion users. The most interesting thing about all of this, in my view, is that, and it presages what might happen geopolitically, and it'll be in my prediction at the end of the show, is that it, technically, the new browser is open weight or open source, and it's actually built on the same technology that Chrome is built on, which Google spends, or Alphabet spends, like, $100 million upkeeping. And essentially, I think this is, I think this says a lot about the future of AI, and I'll come back to this. But Sam has to justify a half a trillion dollar market cap.

Kara Swisher 33:47 He does. He's got to

Scott Galloway 33:47 He's got to go for everything. So what he says is, "Okay, I'm gonna be the next browser. And I'm gonna be Alphabet. And Alphabet's trading at a trillion and a half or $2 trillion." I don't know what it's at right now. "But why can't I be a better version of Alphabet?"

Kara Swisher 34:02 Yes, no.

Scott Galloway 34:02 "And by the way ..."

Kara Swisher 34:03 Okay, go ahead.

Scott Galloway 34:03 When you look at Google searches, what do you s- see, first thing you see? You see that AI summary at the top.

Kara Swisher 34:07 Yeah, you do. Let me, let me introduce, because I've covered these companies for so long. But, you know, Chrome really came in and lapped, you know, Explorer and Safari, and, and all of them very quickly, you know, in terms of how they, uh, in terms of market share. But i- it is moving away from the browser. So the more Chrome moves into an AI, a C- a ChatGPT-like environment, the better for it, right? Um, and so it- it doesn't do, it- it- wh- there isn't, there's ... I remember interviewing Ben Horowitz once, and, uh, he goes, "There's never gonna be a funding of a search engine. There's never gonna be a funding of a social network. And there's never gonna be a funding of a big commerce platform," because of Amazon, uh, Google and Facebook at the time. He goes, "Why should we?" And so why should we? Because you haven't seen a lot of innovation in Chrome. You haven't seen a lot. And it took OpenAI to get Chrome to innovate, right? It wasn't, it didn't happen-

Scott Galloway 35:03 And they came in through a side door.

Kara Swisher 35:04 Yep, exactly. And so ...

Scott Galloway 35:06 S- S- Sam Altman's vision wasn't, wasn't to have a browser or a search engine.

Kara Swisher 35:08 Right, but, you know, it always changes things. So it's nice to have it. Um, honestly, I feel ... I don't use browsers. I browse, I'm trying to think of where I search. I guess I search within Maps, within Amazon, within ... Like, the search, search has dissipated all over the place, but it's still owned by the same groups of people, which is interesting. Any thoughts on ... We'll get to your prediction at the end, but any thoughts on the R- Reddit suing, uh, perplexity? Some people don't like this lawsuit. Others thinks it's, it

Scott Galloway 35:37 Why is that? You know more about this than I do.

Kara Swisher 35:39 Um, I, I, you know-

Scott Galloway 35:39 Why don't they like it?

Kara Swisher 35:39 ... Mike Masnick was like, "This is a stupid lawsuit." But, uh, you know, that some of this stuff is, um, is available and so they can do it. Other people ... You know, I think it's, wh- what it is is another indication of who gets to own the information and who gets to scrape it and what people do with it. But it's open season on everybody's content. That's just the, th- that's my feeling. And so everyone's gonna try to defend the content they have, no matter what it is. You know, Reddit certainly has created a really valuable property full of information that they should take advantage of by themselves, that others will take advantage of. Um, okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump's White House demolition. Support for this show comes from Upway. If you're tired of being stuck in traffic or watching gas prices climb higher and higher, you're not alone. There's a better, freer way to move through your day, and it might just change how you feel about commuting. An e-bike from Upway can give you that feeling of freedom, fresh air, no traffic, no stress. It's not just good for your health, it's better for your wallet, your time, and honestly, your happiness. Upway makes it easy. They offer top brands like Specialized, Cannondale, and Aventon at up to 60% off retail. Every e-bike is thoroughly inspected by a professional mechanic and comes with a one-year warranty, so you can ride with peace of mind. You can search by brand or style, book a call with a real human for help, or even stop by their showrooms in New York or LA. So go to upway.co and use code PIVOT150 to get $150 off your first e-bike purchase of $1000 or more. That's upway.co, code PIVOT150. Go ahead. You won't regret it.

Scott Galloway 37:19 Support for the show comes from Pipedrive. I spend plenty of hours speaking to entrepreneurs, and the one issue that always seems to pop up? They struggle with their sales process. It's all too common to jump between back and forth emails, scattered notes, and forgotten follow-ups and spending more time chasing paperwork than actually closing. That's where Pipedrive comes in. Pipedrive is a top-rated CRM tool for small to medium businesses. With Pipedrive, sales teams are equipped to close deals at a much faster rate. The visual sales pipeline shows you where every deal is, what stage it's in, and what needs to happen next, all in one dashboard. Plus, Pipedrive lets you automate your follow-ups so no leads slip through the cracks. And its AI features can analyze your sales process to take your business to the next level. It's a powerful yet simple CRM built by salespeople for salespeople. Join the over 100,000 companies already using Pipedrive. Right now, when you use my link, you'll get a 30-day free trial. No credit card or payment needed, just head to pipedrive.com/pivot to get started. That's pipedrive.com/pivot, and you can be up and running in minutes.

Kara Swisher 38:25 Scott, we're back with more news. The White House is demolishing the entire East Wing to make way for President Trump's 90,000-square-foot ballroom. The teardown should be finished by the weekend. Trump initially claimed his privately funded ballroom wouldn't interfere with the existing White House structure, which was a lie. He's also now saying the ballroom will cost $300 million, $100 million more than originally estimated. The White House is dismissing the shock and criticism around the demolition as manufactured outrage. You know, mostly he's a liar. Um, and, uh, release the Epstein files. That's what I have to say about this. What do you think? The pictures are still very upsetting in some weird way, although the White House has been renovated before. There is a need for a bigger room for some of the functions there. It is, if you've been to the White House, they're quite small actually. They're un- they're shockingly small. Um, and they do- should have a lot of functions. But there's plenty of other land around the White House they could have built these things on. Instead, he just did this because he felt like it. Um, probably it is safer? I'm gonna try to- try to understand. But they- he did it without asking anybody essentially. And it's, of course it's the people's house not his house, but it's his house as it turns out. Thoughts?

Scott Galloway 39:33 There's a clutch in your pearls. This is a desecration. It's not your h- What this means is the following, is that he is normalizing federal troops in cities, he's creating doubt around the election process, and he has no intention of leaving. 'Cause I won't, if I'm renting a place, I won't put in a new refrigerator, much less tear down an entire wing.

Kara Swisher 39:53 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 39:55 So let's be honest, folks. You really think he'd go through this if he was planning to leave in 36 months?

Kara Swisher 40:01 Yeah. Yeah. It's his new Mar-a-Lago.

Scott Galloway 40:03 So-

Kara Swisher 40:03 He's building a Mar-a-Lago.

Scott Galloway 40:04 Yeah. And, uh, so to me I, I mean like, okay, when do we wake up and realize the guy's not planning to leave? He's making long-term renovations. I mean, how long is it gonna take to even do this, to build this thing? It, it's not, so, but he's planning to leave? But he's gonna... So look, I, I don't, I, I, I find the whole thing yet again, um, everything's adding up to the following. He wants to normalize sending troops into cities during the election process to make sure, whether it's to discourage people from voting or to lie or to, um, show up. Uh, Bill Maher said it perfectly, it's like, "What happens when two people show up to inauguration?" And he's, he's basically saying, okay, if the second person tries to show up who legitimately wins, I'm gonna show up with troops and masked agents that are basically my secret police. That's where I see this going, and this is just more evidence that he's not planning to leave. You don't ha- you don't initiate an enormous construction project when you know you're- you constitutionally have to leave in three years.

Kara Swisher 41:12 Yeah. Yeah. I would agree.

Scott Galloway 41:13 Your thoughts.

Kara Swisher 41:14 I think, you know, I think a lot of people think this, right? Or put whoever in place that he wants to, 'cause as you say, which I've, my favorite expression these days, biology is undefeated. He seems more addled than ever, missing words and everything else. But he's-

Scott Galloway 41:25 The only reason I'm not worried.

Kara Swisher 41:26 Yeah. Right.

Scott Galloway 41:27 Biology's gonna take care of him.

Kara Swisher 41:28 Right. Except then, then what? Right? And wouldn't it be interesting, let me just posit that that doesn't happen and a Democrat becomes president. What do you do? He's gonna gold this thing up, right? All over the place. It's gonna be so ridiculous and grotesque. What do you do the nec- when you get, walk in there and you have this ridiculous over, badly sized ballroom next to a, uh, uh, uh, uh, East Wing was quite, uh, it's not really lovely. I don't love the White House, I'll be honest with you. But, um, it, it, it was to scale, it was to scale, right? And so this looks like a weird, like mutated tumor onto the White House. Um, uh, that's my architectural determination, it's a tumor. It's a tumor. Um, but what, what do you do the next day with this weird patio and then the, and then the thing, this behemoth, this grotesque golden behemoth? What do you d- what do you do? Nothing, right?

Scott Galloway 42:24 I don't know. I just, I, I know what happened here. He sat down with some crazy right-wing, probably hot blonde decorator. And she- and what decorators do is they say, "All right, I want mood boards." Like tell me what you, they, g- you know, they try and make you feel special like you're involved in the process. And they say, like I'm, I'm, uh, I redid my place in Manhattan. And they said, "What do you want it to look like?" I'm like, "I want it to look like what it is, a, a, a professor who's, who's done fairly well."

Kara Swisher 42:53 Yeah. Yeah, that's what it looks like, that's what it looks like.

Scott Galloway 42:56 (laughs) That's what I want it to look like. And, and what he did was he said, "I want this place to look like you walked into the best Iraqi whorehouse."

Kara Swisher 43:04 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 43:04 And they have delivered against it.

Kara Swisher 43:06 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 43:06 The decorator, this feels like you are in Baghdad-

Kara Swisher 43:10 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 43:10 ... at a brothel.

Kara Swisher 43:11 The best Iraqi whorehouse.

Scott Galloway 43:11 But it's a high-end brothel.

Kara Swisher 43:13 (laughs) High-end.

Scott Galloway 43:14 But it's a high-end brothel.

Kara Swisher 43:15 Yeah. Really? Oh.

Scott Galloway 43:16 I mean, it's, it's absolutely perfect. It's, anyways-

Kara Swisher 43:21 It's not enough marble.

Scott Galloway 43:23 That's right.

Kara Swisher 43:23 We need more marble.

Scott Galloway 43:24 And as Forrest Gump said, "And that's all I have to say about that."

Kara Swisher 43:27 About that. But what, what do you do the next day if you're the Democrat win- You're like, "Oh my fucking God." What do you do, let everyone come in and tear you down?

Scott Galloway 43:34 Yeah, by, by the way, the only, I've only been to the White House once, and you know when that was.

Kara Swisher 43:36 With me. Yes, that's right. Yes, you've been at this place.

Scott Galloway 43:38 And I didn't wanna go. I was intimidated.

Kara Swisher 43:40 Yeah, you were.

Scott Galloway 43:40 I had to bring a suit. I met you in the lobby. I was wor- I don't, I don't... The idea of seeing all those people and having them kiss your ass like I knew they were going to.

Kara Swisher 43:48 Yeah, you definitely did.

Scott Galloway 43:48 Like, the vice president, "Kaswich," and come over and hug you and kiss you.

Kara Swisher 43:52 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 43:52 Secretary Blinken, "Kara! Kara!" And all the, and the only-

Kara Swisher 43:57 Some of the Trump people like me, oddly enough.

Scott Galloway 43:59 And the other thing is...

Kara Swisher 43:59 So strange. So strange.

Scott Galloway 44:01 Yeah. Key word there is some. Anyways, so-

Kara Swisher 44:02 Well, no, more than you'd think. More than you'd think. I don't know why. 'Cause I really dislike them.

Scott Galloway 44:07 Well, you're exceptionally- you're exceptionally likable.

Kara Swisher 44:08 I guess. I don't know.

Scott Galloway 44:09 Um, so anyways, but-

Kara Swisher 44:10 I literally say, "I dislike you and think you're a bunch of fascists." And they're like, "Yeah, come to our party."

Scott Galloway 44:15 The o- the other thing that struck me about my one tour of the White House-

Kara Swisher 44:18 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 44:19 ... was, uh, I could not relax living there. There were two things.

Kara Swisher 44:24 Yeah. People.

Scott Galloway 44:25 One, the situation room where you're deciding-

Kara Swisher 44:27 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 44:27 ... whether to have nuclear war or not-

Kara Swisher 44:28 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 44:28 ... you can hear the microwave in the kitchen.

Kara Swisher 44:30 Right.

Scott Galloway 44:31 And I'm like, "Can they smell popcorn when they're popping it out here?"

Kara Swisher 44:33 Yeah, they can.

Scott Galloway 44:34 It's actually really-

Kara Swisher 44:35 It's small. It's-

Scott Galloway 44:35 It's poorly designed in my viewpoint.

Kara Swisher 44:37 It s- It is. Th- Those off- Like, The West Wing, the offices are, like, weirdly a warren of very uncomfor- It's a very-

Scott Galloway 44:44 And-

Kara Swisher 44:44 He is right that it's kind of a mess. It- It's g- In terms of as- as a building, like, as a- as an office building, and...

Scott Galloway 44:50 And then I thought, "How does anyone relax here? There are 140 people here-

Kara Swisher 44:57 Yeah, hanging out.

Scott Galloway 44:57 ... who look like they're about to invade Fallujah."

Kara Swisher 45:00 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 45:01 It is... There are s- It- That place is armed to the teeth.

Kara Swisher 45:04 Yeah. Wow.

Scott Galloway 45:05 And I'm like, "You get up at night to grab some milk, I guess the residence is different and you're gonna run into someone with an AR-15 and-"

Kara Swisher 45:10 Yeah, you're gonna run into people.

Scott Galloway 45:12 "Military t-..." Like, there's no taking the dog for a walk.

Kara Swisher 45:15 Anyway, we'll see. It's just grotesque. And release the Epstein files. Thank you. Just release the Epstein fi- I don't know what they're gonna do tomorrow. I'm just, like, waiting to see what are they gonna, like, paint the- paint the Washington Monument so it looks like the penis that it is.

Kara Swisher 45:28 Anyway, um, Trump is demanding $230 million, by the way, from the Justice Department, saying he deserves compensation for federal investigations into him. According to The New York Times, the compensation is tied to two claims Trump filed against the DOJ before his second term. One is tied to the investigation of Russ- Russian interference in his 2016 campaign. The other, the FBI's 2022 Mar-a-Lago search. I'm sorry, sir, we have the pictures. Payment would likely come from taxpayer money, it would have to be approved by the DOJ, potentially by Deputy AG Todd Blanche, Todd- Trump's former attorney. Uh, personal attorney. Trump commented on the unprecedented nature of all this, to put it mildly, when asked about his claims. Let's listen.

Scott Galloway 46:05 It's interesting 'cause I'm the one that makes the decision, right? And, uh, you know, that decision would have to go across my desk. And it's awfully strange to make a decision where I'm paying myself. In other words, did you ever have one of those cases where you have to decide how much you're paying yourself in damages? But I was damaged very greatly, and any money that I would get, I would give to charity.

Kara Swisher 46:26 Oh my, oh my God. Lie. Huge lie at the end. Enormous lie. And by the way, yes, he has made decisions where he pays himself. It's the presidency and, uh, uh, I- Evidence in action is cryptocurrency and his- his children, but his children, his s- adult sons. And, uh, anyway, I don't know. We're not paying him, are we? Good God.

Scott Galloway 46:50 Uh, I- I- I- I think we probably are. And keep in mind-

Kara Swisher 46:53 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 46:54 ... if the federal government comes for you-

Kara Swisher 46:56 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 46:56 ... and the case ends up- Let's assume they- that this was politically motivated-

Kara Swisher 47:00 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 47:00 ... and there was no legitimacy or veracity and- a- and these things were politically motivated and unjust and unethical. Uh, uh, let's assume that happens quite a few times when the federal government comes for people.

Kara Swisher 47:11 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 47:12 I- i- if you're found guilty, which he was in one case and-

Kara Swisher 47:17 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 47:17 ... not in others.

Kara Swisher 47:19 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 47:19 When that happens to your average American citizens, they- the government doesn't pay them back-

Kara Swisher 47:22 No.

Scott Galloway 47:22 ... for their legal fees.

Kara Swisher 47:23 Right. Now we're gonna have to pay everybody back.

Scott Galloway 47:24 So, but we've become- we've become... Now, sometimes in co- I believe in certain legal cases-

Kara Swisher 47:30 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 47:30 ... if you win, uh, I think if you win a civil case-

Kara Swisher 47:33 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 47:33 ... sometimes the other side has to pay your legal fees.

Kara Swisher 47:35 Yeah, but not the government.

Scott Galloway 47:36 And, but if the government comes for you and you're found innocent, you- they don't pay you back your legal fees.

Kara Swisher 47:42 Mm-mm. Too bad, Donald.

Scott Galloway 47:43 So anyways, we- but we've become- this has become normalized. And to think that that's not gonna happen, he gets to a point... He got to a point, the head of the- the DOJ. Now, to think that they're gonna stand up to him. Keep in mind, there are, whatever, 53 Republican senators. These people were freely elected.

Kara Swisher 48:03 Right.

Scott Galloway 48:04 You'd think they'd have balls.

Kara Swisher 48:05 Right. They don't. They're watching us.

Scott Galloway 48:06 This guy sent pe- This guy sent people after them to kill them on January 6th. I just think it's hilarious that they try to- they try to position the protest last weekend as violent and weirdo. I'm like, "No, that was January 6th." If- if you're looking for violence and people who hate America-

Kara Swisher 48:22 That's right.

Scott Galloway 48:22 ... just go back to the protests of January 6th, if you can call it that. It was an insurrection. But the notion that these people are gonna stand up when they can't get duly elected senators who he sent a mob after to kill-

Kara Swisher 48:34 Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 48:35 ... and they won't stand up against the guy.

Kara Swisher 48:37 Well, that's because it doesn't

Narrator 48:37 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 48:37 ... go on for tomorrow.

Kara Swisher 48:37 ... matter to them.

Scott Galloway 48:37 To think that Pam Bondi is gonna say this is a bridge too far.

Kara Swisher 48:40 Yeah, no. No.

Scott Galloway 48:41 So I- I think-

Kara Swisher 48:42 But here's the thing.

Scott Galloway 48:43 ... the- the- the sad part is... Go ahead.

Kara Swisher 48:45 Here's the thing. Trump's not gonna pay for this, but if they do this, they will at some point. All his minions are gonna get got at every... That's who I'd go for if I was... I'd get all of them. Like, Trump will get away with it. It's just, everybody knows he's gonna get away with it. Um, but the minions, not so much, I think. That's my feeling.

Scott Galloway 49:06 Oh, I... But see, this is where, this is the opportunity and why I'm... And one of the shortcomings of the Democratic Party right now. If this goes... Uh, okay, take the- the-

Kara Swisher 49:18 ICE, whatever.

Scott Galloway 49:19 Sending people to-

Kara Swisher 49:20 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 49:20 Sending people to El Salvador-There are people all along the supply chain that made the decision to send American citizens, incarcerate them, and send them out of the country. I would be drawing up all sorts of bills and publicizing them, saying, "The statute of limitations on these crimes, whether it's crypto crimes, whether it's fraud, whether it's lying in front of Congress, just keep in mind these laws, the statute of limitations are longer than 37 months. And this is exactly what we're coming for you for." You may think you feel safe now, and, uh, y- you better hope you get a pardon, but I would be drawing up legislation that says, th- or basically advertising a guy like Senator Murphy or Senator Bennetts or Senators Klobuchar and say, "These are the crimes we believe have been committed, and he may be the head of the crime family, but the soldiers go to jail too. And he might be safe because he'll probably be dead, or he'll pardon himself-"

Kara Swisher 50:18 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 50:19 "... but there are thousands of people..."

Kara Swisher 50:21 And his family.

Scott Galloway 50:21 And I'd start naming names.

Kara Swisher 50:22 He'll pardon himself and his family. Can I tell you something? Several of the Trump people I've met said they're asking for pardons already.

Scott Galloway 50:29 Why wouldn't you?

Kara Swisher 50:30 That's what I was like... And I, at, at first I was like, "What? What did you do?" He goes, "Nothing." And I said, "Well?" He goes, "Oh, they're coming for us." Like, uh, "And we probably deserve it."

Scott Galloway 50:40 And they should. There, there's-

Kara Swisher 50:40 He kind of said, "We deserve it." Like, it was really weird. I was...

Scott Galloway 50:44 This is an or- this is an orgy of corruption.

Kara Swisher 50:47 Yeah. They're coming for you.

Scott Galloway 50:49 And, uh, where the Democrats... Uh, again, the Democrats should be articulating exactly what crimes-

Kara Swisher 50:55 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 50:55 ... they believe have been committed-

Kara Swisher 50:56 Yeah. Greg Czar-

Scott Galloway 50:57 ... putting out lists-

Kara Swisher 50:58 ... C- C- Czar has, but go ahead. A Republican

Narrator 51:00 (whistles)

Scott Galloway 51:00 Lists of hundreds of people they believe, they believe have potentially engaged in these crimes-

Kara Swisher 51:05 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 51:05 ... and then next to their name, what the statute of limitations is on that crime.

Kara Swisher 51:09 Yeah. That's a great idea. Let's make that list.

Scott Galloway 51:11 And start saying, "Well, okay, be clear folks, throughout for our 250 year history, the White House and the DOJ flipped back and forth. At some point, we're gonna have the gavel, we're gonna have the power of the purse, we're gonna have the power of subpoena, and we're gonna have our own DOJ. And unlike the, unlike this corrupt DOJ, we will be holding people to the letter of the law, and these are the letters that you have violated."

Kara Swisher 51:40 Yep. Yep.

Scott Galloway 51:40 "And this is their statute of limitations."

Kara Swisher 51:42 Yeah. All right. Then we'll see.

Scott Galloway 51:43 'Cause the world is shaped on incentives.

Kara Swisher 51:45 Right.

Scott Galloway 51:45 What incentives right now-

Kara Swisher 51:47 They're not getting enough money.

Scott Galloway 51:48 ... are there not to engage in this corruption?

Kara Swisher 51:49 They're not getting enough money for what they're gonna pay S- Trump is, and the Trump family is. He'll, he'll, he'll pardon himself and his family and a few choice people, but everybody else, you're shit out, you're gonna be shit out of luck. Anyway, we have to move on. Um, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we get back, we'll talk Netflix and Tesla earnings, which are super interesting. (bright music)

Scott Galloway 52:08 Support for the show comes from Apple. Before the show was even a podcast, all I had was an idea. And once I had that, all I really needed to get started was a mic and a Mac. I have been starting businesses my whole life. One thing that has been static, a constant in all of my business is Apple products. They just work. They send the right signal. Uh, it sounds sort of strange-

Kara Swisher 52:29 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 52:29 ... but they make me feel good about myself.

Kara Swisher 52:30 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 52:30 They make me feel creative. But they have been just a foundation upon which I have built my businesses. No matter what you have an idea for, whether it's starting the business you've been dreaming of, a game-changing piece of tech, or finally writing that book, go for it. You just need to get started. Your great ideas start on Mac. Find out more on apple.com/mac.

Kara Swisher 52:54 Scott,

Kara Swisher 52:55 we're back, and it's time to talk about some earnings. First up, Tesla. Tesla's third quarter revenue was up about 12% from a year earlier, but profit fell short of expectations. That's because a lot of people rushed to buy cars, but then Tesla sold them for cheaper prices and, uh, there was an ability to get loans, so people bought more. Vehicle delivers were up 70%, 7% from a year earlier, but the company says it plans to hit volume production of CyberCabs and Tesla Semi in 2026. I wouldn't believe that. Um, also, uh, uh, uh, Musk was saying he has to create an army of robots, and if he doesn't have control over his army of robots, he, he was, he's trying to get his million, his, his trillion-dollar deal, which is gonna be voted on in a, a week or two. Um, and next, Netflix shares of the company are down 5% in the last five days, at the time of taping, after a miss of third quarter earnings. Netflix cited ongoing dispute with Brazilian tax authorities for weak results. However, revenue for the quarter rose 17%. The streamer said her quarter ad sales, uh, in the quarter were the best ever powered largely by my favorite, K-pop Demon Hunters. There's also gonna be some merch. Uh, great news for Kara Swisher, uh, announcing Mattel and Hasbro will release K-pop Demon Hunters toys, plushies, and games. Let me tell you, among the toddler set, uh, the, in the young below 10 set, they're all dr- dressing like Roomy, uh, for Halloween. Not my daughter, but, um, and son, but, uh, but they're, uh, all the kids in school, uh, they're, they're all dressing like Roomy, which is one of the chara- main characters in the, uh, in the, in the show. Um, so thoughts on these earnings?

Scott Galloway 54:23 Yeah, I think Netflix is one of the best run companies in, you know, in business. Um, their, their revenue increased 17%. Their, that didn't meet expectations. Their stock fell 10%, but the stock's been on a tear. Uh, net income increased nearly 8% to two and a half billion, missing estimates by about 15%. Their operating margin was 28%, and that was also short of the 32% that it was expected. They highlighted a one-time tax expense in Brazil of 600, of $600 million for why their profitability mixed. Um, uh, that, that, by the way, that, that charge had been previously disclosed to investors on past earnings reports. So I, I think at this point, a lot of people are just taking profits. K-pop Demon Hunters was a huge success.

Kara Swisher 55:11 Yeah. They keep hitting it out of the park.

Scott Galloway 55:12 Uh, the movie, the movie was produced by Sony Animation, but released directly to Netflix at the end of August. It's now the most watched movie in Netflix history with approximately 325 million views. So essentially, the population of America (laughs) has watched, uh-

Kara Swisher 55:26 Did you watch it yet?

Scott Galloway 55:27 ... K-pop.I haven't seen it, no.

Kara Swisher 55:29 Oh my God, will you please watch it so we can discuss it?

Scott Galloway 55:31 I only watch things starring my favorite actor, Hitler.

Kara Swisher 55:34 Okay.

Scott Galloway 55:34 Late at night, I take an edible-

Kara Swisher 55:36 You will love K-pop Demon Hunters.

Scott Galloway 55:36 ... I have a Maker's and ginger and I watch World War II in color.

Kara Swisher 55:38 And then we can sing it together on the tour. << Are you ready for the take down? >>

Scott Galloway 55:44 Yeah, that's...

Kara Swisher 55:44 I'll keep singing it until you watch it.

Scott Galloway 55:45 Yeah, that's what we need to do. The soundtrack has also topped the Billboard top charts. Uh, cross-promotion, Netflix, Mattel, and Hasbro have, have joined to pro- together to produce K-pop Demon Hunter toys.

Kara Swisher 55:58 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 55:58 Look, the company, I still think, I think, like I, I wouldn't buy Netflix here. I think that their growth is going to be international, I think it's a great company, I think they'll probably grow into their price. I'm of the mind now that I think you, just as we talk about cable cutters, or people who cut the cord, I think we're gonna start hearing about an entirely new generation of people that just don't own TVs. And also, I think our desire for, I don't know if you've seen, seen these trends, I forget what they're called, mini soap operas, this one-minute content, and these guys are smart, they'll figure out ways to get into those fields, but I worry, I, I think that, uh, I just think everything's moving away. Have, have you, well, I'll ask you this, and I know you like The Diplomat.

Kara Swisher 56:40 I love it.

Scott Galloway 56:41 I've f- I've been struck in the last 12 months, all of a sudden I'm not turning on the TV. Our, our, and I realize that's anecdotal, but I'm supposed to be in the atrium sitting around watching Murder She Wrote... Are you watching less TV?

Kara Swisher 56:55 No, I'm watching specific TV. I, I like television. Um-

Scott Galloway 56:58 Right, appointment TV.

Kara Swisher 56:58 So yeah, like I w- I watched the entire season of The Diplomat, which is wonderful, as I said. Um, and I noticed a lot of people had said, m- when I mentioned that, said, "Oh yeah, I did the same thing." So I'll, I'll, I'll watch, you know, specif- hunt- like I always talk about Hunting Wise, but I'll watch specific, or The Gilded Age, uh, like, but it's all over the place, by the way, and I'm, I'm watching this Martin Scorsese documentary, I think it's on, I think it's on Apple TV. Um, but I watch specific things and I watch the, the hell out of them, if that makes sense. And some shows I do watch week to week, right? Um, like The Morning Sh- well, that, that goes out every week. I'm actually in this episode, this is my episode this week.

Scott Galloway 57:38 Really?

Kara Swisher 57:38 Uh, yes, I'm on it. Yes, it's lovely.

Scott Galloway 57:40 This week?

Kara Swisher 57:41 This week, yeah. Whatever this episode-

Scott Galloway 57:42 Oh, we'll definitely tune in.

Kara Swisher 57:43 Yeah, yeah. Um, I got a bunch, I, I can't watch-

Scott Galloway 57:46 That's nice.

Kara Swisher 57:46 ... it here in Korea, so I am not able to watch my amazing Emmy Award-winning-

Scott Galloway 57:49 Just use a VPN.

Kara Swisher 57:51 I know, I didn't, I guess I could. Um, so I don't-

Scott Galloway 57:53 ExpressVPN.

Kara Swisher 57:53 ... I'm too tired. I don't, I don't care to watch myself on TV right now.

Scott Galloway 57:56 You don't know where you are.

Kara Swisher 57:56 I don't care. I don't-

Scott Galloway 57:57 You don't know what's going on.

Kara Swisher 57:58 I don't care. I don't, I-

Scott Galloway 57:59 I saw, oh but I'll speak of which, I saw a good movie, I saw a cute movie.

Kara Swisher 58:02 What?

Scott Galloway 58:02 Um, I'm trying to go to the movies more, uh, with my boys. I saw Good Fortune with Seth Rogen and Aziz Ansari.

Kara Swisher 58:08 Oh. Oh, it's supposed to be good.

Scott Galloway 58:09 Yeah, and Keanu Reeves. The movie's actually not that well done.

Kara Swisher 58:11 No?

Scott Galloway 58:11 Uh, but, yeah, but it's a wonderful message though.

Kara Swisher 58:14 Oh, okay.

Scott Galloway 58:15 It's really a nice-

Kara Swisher 58:16 Okay, yeah. I'll go see, like-

Scott Galloway 58:16 But I think it's all about about anchor and quality.

Kara Swisher 58:17 ... with movies, like I'm going to see Wicked, that's it, the new, the, the Wicked sequel. They're now making Crazy Rich Asians again, I'd see that in the theater. Like, it just dep- it's just specific. I'm a very specific watcher, when I used to just watch whatever, as you and I grew up, we just turned on the boob tube and just stared essentially. So I'm highly specific. Um, but, and, and I watch, I watch threads. I know it sounds crazy, but I watch Instagram.

Scott Galloway 58:40 Uh, it's scary, isn't it?

Kara Swisher 58:42 I watch it, yeah.

Scott Galloway 58:42 I've noticed that too. I get so much of my information now from-

Kara Swisher 58:44 But it's nice. It's easy-

Scott Galloway 58:45 ... Threads and TikTok.

Kara Swisher 58:47 ... and it's very snackable, I hear.

Scott Galloway 58:47 The algorithms are great, they figure out what we want.

Kara Swisher 58:49 Yeah, absolutely. So, but, but anyway, so, so Tesla, talk very quickly about Tesla, what's your thoughts on that?

Scott Galloway 58:56 Well, look, at Tesla, it's a little bit hard to, to extrapolate from these earnings because there was a pull forward, and that is that because the tax credits were expiring, a lot of people-

Kara Swisher 59:06 And loans, they gave very very long loans.

Scott Galloway 59:07 ... went in and, and bought probably more cars. Deliveries were up 7%, so the, this is the, it's the greatest revenue they've seen and registered in two years. But again, this is probably due to pull forward demand due to the expiration of the EV tax credit-

Kara Swisher 59:22 Yeah, and also other things-

Scott Galloway 59:23 ... and demand is expected to drop.

Kara Swisher 59:23 ... they've got some other things they get to put in their earnings, oh, that, that Trump got rid of about around the environment and not carbon, but another one, air quality or something.

Scott Galloway 59:33 Well, that's right, because of the expiration of regulatory credits and also their increased spending on AI, their net income fell 36%.

Kara Swisher 59:41 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 59:42 So last year, they made about $2.8 billion from selling regulatory credits and about 40% from America, and this is essentially just lost revenue. And this, this quarter, Tesla reported the regulatory credit revenue was down 44% year on year. And R&D expenses, including AI spend rose 57%, they've got to enter the same spending war as everybody else-

Kara Swisher 1:00:02 True.

Scott Galloway 1:00:02 ... uh, and it rose to 1.6 billion, and Tesla also blamed tariffs for this crash-

Kara Swisher 1:00:06 Tariffs, yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:00:06 ... in profitability but prov- but provided no numbers. It's interesting because they're actually the most vertical automobile maker, the, th- they have more, quote unquote, Made in America parts-

Kara Swisher 1:00:15 Still.

Scott Galloway 1:00:16 ... than anything. The, the earnings call was really him trying to pivot to AI.

Kara Swisher 1:00:22 And robots.

Scott Galloway 1:00:23 But so far, it's off to a rocky start. They've delayed the production of the Optimus bots, abandoning previous plans to make, I think it was 10,000 robots by the summer.

Kara Swisher 1:00:31 Yeah, remember, whatever he says, it's nonsense.

Scott Galloway 1:00:33 And the head of Optimus has left from-

Kara Swisher 1:00:35 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:00:35 ... from Meta, and not only that, this guy was pissed off at Elon because he made a point of saying, "I left despite taking a cut in pay," which means-

Kara Swisher 1:00:42 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:00:42 ... you're angry.

Kara Swisher 1:00:44 Yes.

Scott Galloway 1:00:44 They also launched their robo-taxi service in Austin, and since then, they've also expanded to San Francisco, and in both cities, safety monitors are in the car during the ride.

Kara Swisher 1:00:54 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:00:54 In SF, the monitor sits in the driver's seat.

Kara Swisher 1:00:56 Yeah, it's just-

Scott Galloway 1:00:56 So that's, I don't know, I'm not sure that's-

Kara Swisher 1:00:57 Waymo's so far ahead, it's crazy. And this is gonna be hard to make money, there's so many players in this game.

Scott Galloway 1:01:01 Well, you know what I didn't, uh, you know what I, you said something, I occasionally do listen to you, and you said something that's always stuck to me, and that is, it is easy to, it's, it's difficult to have empathy for victims when you've never been a victim. And I've, that has really registered with me because I've always said, "Oh, London is safe, New York is safe, you don't need to worry." There's a different set of fears for a guy who's 6'2", 190, and quite frankly just, like-... like a- this is ba- a bad thing. You know, this is a dangerous thing to say. I have never been, I don't think, a victim of a crime.

Kara Swisher 1:01:39 Ugh, now you're gonna get killed.

Scott Galloway 1:01:40 I've never been assaulted, I've never been mugged-

Kara Swisher 1:01:42 Jeez.

Scott Galloway 1:01:42 ... I've never been pick-pocketed, I've never had my phone stolen. So it's just not, uh, it's just not easy for me, and I have to realize I need to have, you know, I need to have, uh, you know, i- i- i- eh, more empathy for people-

Kara Swisher 1:01:56 Me too.

Scott Galloway 1:01:56 ... who are victims.

Kara Swisher 1:01:57 Me too.

Scott Galloway 1:01:57 And the, and the thing that really struck me is I have heard several women say the following. They hate getting an Ubers because the Uber driver starts chatting them up and they feel unsafe.

Kara Swisher 1:02:12 You can ask for a woman Uber dri-

Scott Galloway 1:02:13 And I, I-

Kara Swisher 1:02:14 O- both Lyft and Uber, you can, and you can ask for a woman.

Scott Galloway 1:02:17 But that's something.

Kara Swisher 1:02:18 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:02:18 Uber drivers have no desire to talk to me.

Kara Swisher 1:02:20 Mm-hmm. Well...

Scott Galloway 1:02:21 (laughs) If they don't-

Kara Swisher 1:02:22 You're not gonna put out.

Scott Galloway 1:02:22 ... it's usually mean I'm not proud of this.

Kara Swisher 1:02:23 And little do they know that you would put out, that's the thing.

Scott Galloway 1:02:26 Well, that's the thing.

Kara Swisher 1:02:27 That's the thing.

Scott Galloway 1:02:27 Yeah, there you go.

Kara Swisher 1:02:28 Yeah, it's intere- I-

Scott Galloway 1:02:29 I've alwa- they, sometimes I tip them off when I get in the front seat.

Kara Swisher 1:02:32 (laughs) Hey.

Scott Galloway 1:02:33 No, but I, and I thought, I thought, that's the last fucking thing I would wanna deal with-

Kara Swisher 1:02:38 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:02:38 ... is I'm coming home late from a dinner. And by the way-

Kara Swisher 1:02:41 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:02:41 ... I wanna be clear, some of these guys, and they're always guys-

Kara Swisher 1:02:44 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:02:44 ... are probably just friendly, right?

Kara Swisher 1:02:46 Some.

Scott Galloway 1:02:46 But they, but they shouldn't have to deal with that shit.

Kara Swisher 1:02:49 Most, most are. Most are.

Scott Galloway 1:02:50 And I thought-

Kara Swisher 1:02:50 Most are.

Scott Galloway 1:02:51 ... and that's why, that's why, and then on the Waymo call, or the guy who runs Waymo was saying, I think it was the guy who runs Waymo-

Kara Swisher 1:02:57 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:02:57 ... says, "This-"

Kara Swisher 1:02:59 It's a woman who runs Waymo-

Scott Galloway 1:02:59 "This, some of the biggest uptake has been by-"

Kara Swisher 1:03:01 ... but there's another guy that runs it with her. But go ahead.

Scott Galloway 1:03:04 But have said some of their biggest uptake has been from women.

Kara Swisher 1:03:06 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:03:07 And I'm like, "That just makes sense."

Kara Swisher 1:03:08 Yep.

Scott Galloway 1:03:09 Right?

Kara Swisher 1:03:09 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:03:10 You don't wanna deal with it. And quite frankly, I don't, I don't, uh, I, if I could have a driverless car, I was thinking about would I wanna do it?

Kara Swisher 1:03:17 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:03:17 My experience so far in driverless, I haven't enjoyed other than the technical sophistication-

Kara Swisher 1:03:22 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:03:22 ... and the wonder, because they go so fucking slow.

Kara Swisher 1:03:24 They do go slow.

Scott Galloway 1:03:24 It's like having a 16-year-old over-cautious driver.

Kara Swisher 1:03:27 They've gotten better.

Scott Galloway 1:03:27 I hate that.

Kara Swisher 1:03:27 They, i- they, they've g- they're now like an aunt who's a good driver but is too slow. It used to be grandma who's not such a good driver. And-

Scott Galloway 1:03:33 But, but the promise of, the promise-

Kara Swisher 1:03:35 They're faster.

Scott Galloway 1:03:35 ... in my opinion-

Kara Swisher 1:03:35 I've noticed they're faster in San Francisco.

Scott Galloway 1:03:37 Oh, that, that's great.

Kara Swisher 1:03:38 Uh-huh.

Scott Galloway 1:03:38 'Cause I think the promise of, of autonomous-

Kara Swisher 1:03:41 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:03:41 ... is the following.

Kara Swisher 1:03:42 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:03:43 In London the most, uh, one of the most crazy-

Kara Swisher 1:03:47 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:03:47 ... frustrating experiences is the open road, no traffic, and in certain places where there's cameras-

Kara Swisher 1:03:53 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:03:54 ... the guy, as no joke, has to go 25 miles an hour.

Kara Swisher 1:03:56 Yeah, that's DC. It's like 40.

Scott Galloway 1:03:57 And you're trying to get to Heathrow to make a flight-

Kara Swisher 1:03:59 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:03:59 ... and you're on a highway-

Kara Swisher 1:04:01 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:04:01 ... and you're just going 25... And the real, in my opinion, the promise of, the promise of autonomous-

Kara Swisher 1:04:06 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:04:06 ... is that you'll be able to do away with speed limits.

Kara Swisher 1:04:08 Oh, absolutely.

Scott Galloway 1:04:08 And you let the super computer decide-

Kara Swisher 1:04:10 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:04:10 ... if that thing can go 90 miles an hour.

Kara Swisher 1:04:11 Yeah, that would be a great thing. That would be great, yeah. Why do we have those signs at all? Anyway, uh, we'll see. You know, we'll see. I think he'll probably get that pay package approved, although the two big shareholder services who he keeps trashing said, "This is fucking ridiculous." Um, and he said there'll be, he has enough control that he'll be able to control his robot army, whatever that means, but not enough-

Scott Galloway 1:04:31 What do you think Bernie Sanders thinks of that pay package? (laughs)

Kara Swisher 1:04:33 Oh, god. No, doesn't like it. Doesn't like it. Um-

Scott Galloway 1:04:36 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 1:04:36 ... he has to hit certain numbers, by the way, everybody. Like if he doesn't, he'll find a way to get paid, this guy, but, um, he said, i- i- he doesn't have enough control if he's insane n- not to get fired. And I'm like, um, (laughs) sorry, I think we passed that station on the train of, of Tesla at this point.

Scott Galloway 1:04:53 B- b- b- but let me take the other-

Kara Swisher 1:04:54 Right, okay.

Scott Galloway 1:04:54 ... the other side of his pay package.

Kara Swisher 1:04:56 He has to earn it.

Scott Galloway 1:04:57 I'm actually r- relatively unoffended by the pay package.

Kara Swisher 1:05:00 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:05:00 And that is-

Kara Swisher 1:05:01 'Cause he, he's made a lot of money.

Scott Galloway 1:05:03 Well, what he's saying is, and w- what he's saying is, "If I make shareholders four or five trillion-"

Kara Swisher 1:05:08 I should care.

Scott Galloway 1:05:08 "... will you give me a 10 or 20% commission on that?"

Kara Swisher 1:05:11 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:05:12 In my opinion, from a pure capitalist standpoint-

Kara Swisher 1:05:15 Sure.

Scott Galloway 1:05:15 ... I sort of get it.

Kara Swisher 1:05:16 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:05:16 What I am not comfortable with-

Kara Swisher 1:05:18 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:05:18 ... is someone who aggregates that kind of capital and then pieces out to taxes and engages in massive tax avoidance-

Kara Swisher 1:05:24 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:05:24 ... and that he makes, he pays a smaller percentage of his earnings than a person on the factory floor.

Kara Swisher 1:05:29 Yeah, well, that's what he does.

Scott Galloway 1:05:30 So don't get in the way of upside of compensation.

Kara Swisher 1:05:33 Right.

Scott Galloway 1:05:34 But tax people.

Kara Swisher 1:05:35 I- i- you know, it is linked to his-

Scott Galloway 1:05:36 Have a progressive tax structure.

Kara Swisher 1:05:36 ... it is linked to his performance. And, but that said-

Scott Galloway 1:05:39 Right.

Kara Swisher 1:05:39 ... when he said, ro- "my robot army," it made me cur- like, frightened (laughs) for humanity. Just, he does this all the time. He's such a troll. Anyway, um, well, he'll probably get it, doesn't matter, and we'll all be outraged, and then they'll tear down the West Wing, and we'll be outraged and exac- anyway. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. (music)

Scott Galloway 1:06:00 Support for the show comes from Upwork. Hiring shouldn't be a hassle or a drain on your budget. Upwork says they're your one-stop shop to find, hire, and pay top freelance talent, saving you time and keeping costs in check all in one place. Upwork grants you access to a global marketplace filled with top talent in IT, web dev, AI design, admin support, marketing, and more. Companies at every stage turn to Upwork to get things done and find more flexibility in the way they staff key projects and initiatives. Posting a job on Upwork is easy. And with no cost to join, you can register, browse freelancer profiles, get help drafting a job post, or even book a consultation. From there, you connect with freelancers to get you and your business. Upwork makes the entire process easier, simpler, and more affordable with industry-low fees. Visit upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That's upwork.com to post your job for free and connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. U-P-W-O-R-K dot com. Upwork.com.

Kara Swisher 1:06:59 Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction. What is your prediction? Just so you know, New York, uh, City Mayor Eric Adams just endorsed And- Andrew Cuomo, which I predict will make Zoran Mandan the new mayor. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:07:10 Well, that, that'll give him another 11 votes.

Kara Swisher 1:07:12 God, (laughs) Jesus. They want that Curtis to get out. Curtis ain't getting out, I think. I think Curtis is in, with... Him and his cats are in it to win it.

Scott Galloway 1:07:21 No, I think Curtis is the Ralph Nader of the conservatives.

Kara Swisher 1:07:23 (laughs) I like Curtis.

Scott Galloway 1:07:24 He's like, "No, it's democracy."

Kara Swisher 1:07:25 I like Curtis a little bit. I like, he's, seems insane, but I like him.

Scott Galloway 1:07:29 I like the hat.

Kara Swisher 1:07:30 I like the whole thing. I like the cats. I like, I like ev- I, I actually have enjoyed him weighing in during these debates. It's usually Mandanian, Cuomos screaming at each other.

Scott Galloway 1:07:39 There's always a guy like that. New Y- New York's such an amazing city.

Kara Swisher 1:07:41 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:07:41 They always bring out an interesting guy. Remember the guy, "The rent is too damn high."

Kara Swisher 1:07:45 Right.

Scott Galloway 1:07:45 Remember the guy with the black gloves?

Kara Swisher 1:07:46 Oh, yes. That's right. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:07:47 And he just kept saying, "The rent is too damn high."

Kara Swisher 1:07:50 You know what? He was right.I know, but I, they're, they're trying to get him to pull out so that... Cuomo is doing everything possible that's-

Scott Galloway 1:07:57 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 1:07:57 ... nothing to do with the voters. It's like Trump's help, get Adams out. You know, everything except appeal to voters, which would seem to me to be the thing to do if you wanna be mayor of New York, but whatever. Um, what is your other prediction?

Scott Galloway 1:08:14 Uh, that trying to get people to pull out often doesn't work.

Kara Swisher 1:08:16 Ah, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Scott Galloway 1:08:17 Um-

Kara Swisher 1:08:17 Okay, let me hear this prediction.

Scott Galloway 1:08:18 ... said my 15 and 18-year-old.

Kara Swisher 1:08:20 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:08:20 Um, my prediction is the following. So America is run for profits. You know, what dictates our society is shareholder value. You know, the worth of someone's character, their ability to have healthcare, their ability to have freedom, their ability to have a broader selection set of mates is based on their ability to acquire shit or signal that they can acquire shit through monetary or economic power. That's how America is run. The Chinese government is essentially run, and China is run for control and for power. And one of the ways they do that is they're much longer term thinkers about what positions them long-term geopolitically. And I think essentially what's gonna happen here is the following. I was sort of blown away by the fact that this OpenWeight browser that Sam Altman has basically shoplifted that anybody can use because it's sort of technically... OpenWeight is sort of like open source. I think if I'm the CCP, I am pissed off. They have their problems, but essentially Trump is really fucking with them with these sclerotic 100% tariffs, non-tariffs, and they are being very strategic. And they said, "Okay, we're gonna come for the heart and lungs of Republican voters. And hey folks, I don't know if you heard, but we buy 50% of your soybean crops in, from these red states. We're stopping and we're starting to buy from Argentina, and your president is stupid enough to give Argentina money as we transfer business." That business is never coming back. Farmers are out of business. They're now going after rare earth minerals that are key, play a real strategic role in everything from cars to missiles. And I think the next... I think after going for our hearts and lungs, they're gonna go for our jugular the following way. I think they're gonna release a series of open source or OpenWeight AI tools that crush or put real pressure on our Magnificent 10-

Kara Swisher 1:10:20 Oh, smart.

Scott Galloway 1:10:20 ... and take down our market and put us into a Western recession. If I were in charge of CCP defense and strategy, I would be saying to Xi, "If we really wanna go for the jugular-"

Kara Swisher 1:10:31 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:10:31 "... America is now a giant bet on AI. Let's make this a bad bet. And the way we're gonna do that-"

Kara Swisher 1:10:37 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 1:10:38 "... is we're gonna release a series of DeepSeek and DeepSeek-like competitors that are free, open source-"

Kara Swisher 1:10:44 Around the world.

Scott Galloway 1:10:45 "... and essentially do the following." My biggest client, I started a strategy firm when I was 26, my biggest client was The Gap. We did a bunch of demographic research and the group we found that was most underserved, and I could relate to this, was single mothers who wanted their kids to feel good about themselves 'cause they were very self-conscious about their inc- lower income and that dad wasn't around. And so we positioned what I thought was the most brilliant thing in the world at that time, and that is we said 80% of the Gap for 50% of the price and we