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Why the Rich Think Differently: Millionaire Mindset & Wealth Secrets - Kunal Shah |FO389 Raj Shamani

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Raj ShamanihostKunal Shahguest
Aug 2, 20253h 0mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 2:29

    Intro

    1. RS

      You feel successful people don't gossip?

    2. KS

      Successful people actually are extraordinary at keeping secrets. They gossip to know information. You will never see a wealthy person who's terrible at keeping secrets. The moment second, third generation who's not good at keeping secrets, the wealth will go away.

    3. RS

      Were you good at keeping secrets from childhood?

    4. KS

      I was good at keeping people's trust.

    5. RS

      Tweet that you did. Fastest way to be called stupid in life is to have an opinion about power or politics. Why?

    6. KS

      You will notice that people who talk a lot about politics are usually powerless in life.

    7. RS

      What is your fear today?

    8. KS

      Fear of poor. Nobody really wants to hang around with poor people.

    9. RS

      You've also said somewhere most Indians settle for average career.

    10. KS

      [laughs]

    11. RS

      What's the truth about discipline and ambition? Because a lot of people think they're ambitious.

    12. KS

      Most ambitious people will never say they are ambitious. They are just doing stuff, building stuff. They don't write all these tag words on their Twitter or Instagram or LinkedIn. There are many people who are famous for being cringe. You won't respect them.

    13. RS

      Do you have any insecurity? At times, even when you're doing everything right, something still goes wrong. Like you are all ready for a shoot, but you realize you forgot the mic, or a teammate needs a document, but there's no one free to go drop it. These problems slow you down. That's why I use Porter. It helps me save time and effort by offering on-demand two-wheeler and truck delivery services for all small and big things as per my needs. Their instant pickup and reliable deliveries not only reduce effort, but also bring peace of mind. And it doesn't matter if you are a freelancer, a startup, or an established company. Porter se delivery hai, ho jayega. And our today's guest, Kunal Shah, founder of CRED, also agrees with this way of thinking. He doesn't just spot problems before other people, he questions why they exist and how he can fix them. In today's episode, he talks about what is his biggest fear right now. What is he chasing? Fame, power, or money? Can someone build ambition like a skill? Why are we not acceptable of failure as a society? How can a person go from being mediocre to earning a place with an A+ crowd? And why is being a trustworthy person a huge part of success? Watch this episode till the end, and tell me in the comments, what did you learn from this conversation? [intro jingle]

  2. 2:29 – 3:42

    Friendship with Raj

    1. RS

      Like, my first big podcast, I was just telling my team.

    2. KS

      Oh, is that true?

    3. RS

      Mera first jo- uske pehle I've done 50, 60 episodes.

    4. KS

      Haan.

    5. RS

      Koi bhi 100K views mein nahi gaye the.

    6. KS

      Haan. Interesting.

    7. RS

      Yours was the first jo 100K se bahar gaya tha.

    8. KS

      That's cool.

    9. RS

      And it did it-- And I remember the first line, and we put it out in podcast as well view mein. Us podcast mein start hota hai ki I'm nervous.

    10. KS

      Haan. [laughs]

    11. RS

      And you were telling me ki kyu nervous ho raha hai? [laughs] You remember it was in CRED.

    12. KS

      Yes, I, I do remember.

    13. RS

      Yeah, yeah.

    14. KS

      But, like, it's, it's like kudos to you, man. This is not, uh, it is absolutely elite athlete level achievement what you've done. Pretty cool, man.

    15. RS

      Thank you. It means a lot.

    16. KS

      No, no, it is, it is what it is. Like, credit where it's due, man. This is, this is extraordinary work.

    17. RS

      Thank you so much.

    18. KS

      And, and I can tell you it may look easy from outside. I know, uh, [chuckles] it uh must have been a nightmare getting to this place. How old are you now?

    19. RS

      28.

    20. KS

      That's even more commendable, man. Good stuff.

    21. RS

      Thank you.

    22. KS

      Done.

    23. RS

      I'm actually happy. Achhe note pe start kar rahe hai. [laughs]

    24. KS

      [laughs]

    25. RS

      I was nervous kyunki I'm a fan more than, and more than the Kunal Shah the person, I'm fan of Kunal Shah the person who tweets. [laughs]

    26. KS

      [laughs]

    27. RS

      Kahan pe

  3. 3:42 – 7:50

    Childhood, Kunal as a Person

    1. RS

      born and brought up? Aap kahan pe hue?

    2. KS

      I'm actually born, uh, in Ahmedabad. My mom's from here. But I've always been here. So my-

    3. RS

      Achha

    4. KS

      ... I was, like, raised-

    5. RS

      Bangalore, Bombay?

    6. KS

      No, Bombay only.

    7. RS

      Okay.

    8. KS

      Bangalore is only last six, seven years.

    9. RS

      So Bombay mein Hindi achchhi hoti hogi na?

    10. KS

      Yeah, it's just that I never got, like, good at it.

    11. RS

      Okay.

    12. KS

      Uh, I can speak.

    13. RS

      Mm-hmm.

    14. KS

      Uh, it's not that I can't speak Hindi, but I know that I will struggle with words.

    15. RS

      Do you think in English?

    16. KS

      Mm, that's a good question. I don't know what language I think in.

    17. RS

      But you read and consume everything in English?

    18. KS

      Hmm. No. Aisa nahi hai. I, I do consume in multiple languages. It's just that I don't know what language do I think in. I've just become, um, I think it's become a mixture now.

    19. RS

      Okay. Is it work mein English mein sochte ho or personal life mein Hindi mein sochte ho ya family se jab baat kar rahe ho tab Hindi mein sochte ho?

    20. KS

      I don't know. I... Shit. Maybe I don't, I don't have conversations with myself when I'm thinking.

    21. RS

      Okay.

    22. KS

      I'm using just as a triggers, then I go externally. A good question. Wow. Maybe I've stopped... Wow, I'm trying to think on which language I'm thinking. I'm not able to. I think it's reached into some kind of a, like, language-less thinking approach now.

    23. RS

      Okay.

    24. KS

      It's just more of, like, triggers and I think it's multiple languages.

    25. RS

      Okay.

    26. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    27. RS

      Multiple things together.

    28. KS

      Yeah.

    29. RS

      Just-

    30. KS

      Yeah

  4. 7:50 – 18:56

    Failure

    1. RS

      because you're talking about observation and shame.

    2. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    3. RS

      One thing which is very shameful today-

    4. KS

      Mm-hmm

    5. RS

      ... is failure.

    6. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    7. RS

      When you fail in public.

    8. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    9. RS

      Okay?

    10. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    11. RS

      And that probably is something that we need to because I was reading bunch of your tweets.

    12. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    13. RS

      That is something that we need to get over in order to try more or maybe succeed as society in a better way.

    14. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    15. RS

      Right? How do you think that will happen? First, actually, why do you think failure is seen as a shameful event in our country?

    16. KS

      See, the thing is, uh, uh, first of all, let's just understand how we are raised. Uh, there is this perpetual fear. Everybody is living in some version of fear. Society ka fear, exam ka fear ki yeh ho jayega, woh ho jayega, fail ho jayenge, ek saal miss kar denge, yeh ho jayega. And, and we also raise kids through fear ki if you do not do this, this will happen. Yeh nahi hoga toh aapka yeh naukri nahi hoga, yeh nahi hoga. Nobody will respect you. All of that stuff, right? So when your default state is fear, failure is the dreaded ki yaar kuch bhi ho jaye yeh nahi hona chahiye.

    17. RS

      Haan.

    18. KS

      Right? Uh, and that causes the society to feel safe in some ways, right? But it makes-- it is very common in the emotional societies. For example, aap Covid mein dekhenge India was completely apathy mein tha aur complete panic mein tha. Kabhi beech wala state tha hi nahi.

    19. RS

      Mm-hmm.

    20. KS

      Right? You will notice one more thing that Indians, when they rate an app, they will do one star or five star. Yeh two, three, four star nahi karte hum, right? Because that's an emotional response. YouTube used to be have earlier different ratings, if you remember. Then it moved to up, thumbs up and thumbs down.

    21. RS

      Yeah, yeah.

    22. KS

      Right? Because that's how emotional reactions are, right? Arre I-- a-a-and that's what's happened, like, oh, I'm a fan. And then if they don't do well ohhh we'll hate.

    23. RS

      Mm-hmm.

    24. KS

      Right? And, and therefore I, I often say that we like to create gods out of people and then do visarjan-

    25. RS

      Mm-hmm

    26. KS

      ... of them. Right? And that's how we feel okay about things, right? So I think what happens is hum yeh jo failure ka part hai, right, comes from what do we celebrate, right? Uh, now risky behavior historically resulted in you being left out in the society, and the society had no way to bring you up or whatever, and you would be, like, treated as somebody who has bad judgment. Toh usse accha risk mat lo simple, simple cheez karo.

    27. RS

      Mm-hmm.

    28. KS

      For example, let's say our movement as a society from saving account to fixed deposits to investing in mutual funds to investing in stocks is a journey.

    29. RS

      Yeah.

    30. KS

      Right? And you will see that different communities and different societies, for example, business families had a very different relationship with money.

  5. 18:56 – 29:29

    Fear into Curiosity

    1. RS

      Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, I'll talk about me a little bit, and then we'll go back to the fear conversation. So what has it really helped us is us not bothering about views during the conversation.

    2. KS

      Perfect.

    3. RS

      Like that, and I can tell you by far every member in the team, we know this. When we prepare for a podcast, when we choose the guest, and when we do the podcast, we give zero fucks about views.

    4. KS

      Mm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

    5. RS

      We're like, okay, sometimes we prepare 500 things and we end up talking about none-

    6. KS

      Mm

    7. RS

      ... because we're just curious and we are in-

    8. KS

      Mm-hmm

    9. RS

      ... the conversation. We wanna learn.

    10. KS

      Mm.

    11. RS

      That has really helped us.

    12. KS

      That's good.

    13. RS

      So that the only objective is can we learn and understand something out of this?

    14. KS

      No, that's perfect. As long as you do this consistently-

    15. RS

      Like till now in every conversation we've done this, what we do is once the conversation is out-

    16. KS

      Mm

    17. RS

      ... like once this is done-

    18. KS

      Mm

    19. RS

      ... this job is done, then we try to think, okay, now how do we make best out of whatever we have gotten?

    20. KS

      Mm.

    21. RS

      The process of views doesn't start before we've shot the podcast.

    22. KS

      Perfect. That's actually quite cool. Uh, I think one topic to touch upon on fear is, uh, best people convert fear into curiosity.

    23. RS

      What do you mean? Explain.

    24. KS

      See, everybody has fear.

    25. RS

      Mm.

    26. KS

      It's a guaranteed, huh?

    27. RS

      Agreed.

    28. KS

      Some people have a very different reaction to fear. Most people have a reaction, get shut down, go in shell, not act. Small personal people convert their fear into curiosity.

    29. RS

      Mm.

    30. KS

      Yeah

  6. 29:29 – 34:16

    Mediocre People

    1. RS

      That is so, so true. You know, you tweeted something about it.

    2. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    3. RS

      You said, "Mediocre people often have a clear tell. You'll often see them hanging out with other mediocre people, probably because the A+ folks avoid them." Now, when you said that most of the people are average of the five people they hang out with, and if you come from a mediocre background and you are a mediocre person in there, how do you break out of this? How do you go to the A+ category because A+ folks are avoiding them?

    4. KS

      Yeah. First of all, all A+ folks feel they're mediocre.

    5. RS

      Mm.

    6. KS

      I don't think if the mediocre people feel they are mediocre. That's number one. Number two is it's a relative term, right?

    7. RS

      Mm.

    8. KS

      There is no categorization

    9. RS

      Yeah

    10. KS

      ... this is A+, this is mediocre. It's a spectrum. Like, and we all know-

    11. RS

      Yeah

    12. KS

      ... there's a ranking system that exists on human beings. For example, uh, if you were to rank- ... Kunal and Raj on understanding of content, you would be like miles ahead of me, right? On, on some topics, I would be miles ahead of you, and that's what humans are, right? For example, if both of us have to think about who's the best person to understand cars, maybe it's not us. It's a s- a friend of ours who's very, very good at it.

    13. RS

      Yeah

    14. KS

      And they're miles ahead.

    15. RS

      Mm.

    16. KS

      So there is a spectrum in each of these things. But anybody who's excellent at anything is not accidentally excellent at anything.

    17. RS

      Mm.

    18. KS

      Nobody's gifted to be, "Oh, I am good at cars," or, "I'm good at content."

    19. RS

      Mm.

    20. KS

      Right? It happens because they are obsessive about this and get there, right? Now, if you're in a company of people who obsess about anything, you learn something from them.

    21. RS

      True.

    22. KS

      You meet a musician, you meet an athlete, you, you meet a startup entrepreneur, you meet somebody who's building great content the way you are doing, and you'll always learn, right? And is that the relationship? What I'm saying is that if a relationship is not teaching you something but are only validating you, then growth is limited.

    23. RS

      Mm. How do you find these people who teach you?

    24. KS

      They always exist. Uh, I think people who make us uncomfortable are a good set.

    25. RS

      That's a good framework.

    26. KS

      Right? Because if you think they're right but offends you, that's the exact person to spend time with.

    27. RS

      Yeah.

    28. KS

      But what we do is we judge the tone of their feedback. I don't judge tone of feedback of anyone. Anybody who mocks me or takes a shot at me or whatever, and if they have some good lesson, I will only remember the lesson. I will not remember what the tone was, and I will not even remember who the person was. But people have ... So I, I often say this, but I'll repeat it, like, people have substance and their own perception about themselves.

    29. RS

      Mm.

    30. KS

      When the gap ［foreign language］ it's easiest to offend people.

  7. 34:16 – 35:10

    Mocking Someone = Low Status

    1. RS

      you tweeted something on this.

    2. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    3. RS

      All mockery is accepting lower status.

    4. KS

      Hmm. Yeah. It, it's, it's funny, right? But we will never mock somebody who's lower status than us. Imagine you are meeting with friends and you are mocking your staff who drives you. Have you ever seen that behavior? But we all get together and mock our bosses, mock politicians, mock somebody because it allows people to create a tribe.

    5. RS

      Mm.

    6. KS

      Gotta gossip ［foreign language］ , but that's a very cheap way to build bonds.

    7. RS

      But most people do that, and they cherish-

    8. KS

      Yeah

    9. RS

      ... it. Why?

    10. KS

      But most people are also not successful, no?

    11. RS

      Mm.

  8. 35:10 – 39:38

    Successful People Don’t Gossip

    1. RS

      You feel successful people don't gossip?

    2. KS

      They, they gossip for a very different intent. They gossip to know information-

    3. RS

      Interesting

    4. KS

      ... or improve their intelligence about something.

    5. RS

      Fair.

    6. KS

      It's not their need.

    7. RS

      Yeah.

    8. KS

      Successful people actually are extraordinary at keeping secrets. You will never see a wealthy person who's terrible at keeping secrets.

    9. RS

      Agreed.

    10. KS

      You will say ［foreign language］ . They become the hoarder of asymmetric insights, and therefore you create trust with them. Think about all your friends that you say ［foreign language］ . You can't trust them. They might be fun, entertaining to go out with-

    11. RS

      Mm

    12. KS

      ... but you would not share very intimate information with them that can be damaging to you.

    13. RS

      Yeah. That is so true. You share certain insights with people who you trust and who can keep secrets, and they're often the people who are at the higher status than you or maybe in the group-

    14. KS

      Or are likely to be more successful in the future as well

    15. RS

      ... likely to be more so. You're saying people who are able to keep secrets at a young age-

    16. KS

      See, uh

    17. RS

      ... are likely to be more successful in future?

    18. KS

      So let's just-

    19. RS

      Is that what you're implying?

    20. KS

      ... let's just break the ... All the people who are very successful or wealthy at least-

    21. RS

      Mm

    22. KS

      ... are going to be somebody who are extraordinary at keeping secrets Right? Which means they don't feel the need

    23. RS

      Yeah

    24. KS

      ... right? Most people, the way they remain interesting is through gossip.

    25. RS

      Hm.

    26. KS

      कुछ content mila, and they have to tell people about it. And that's how they remain interesting, right? Some people, you share something with them, you know

    27. RS

      Hm

    28. KS

      ... they hold it. Now, I'm not saying that this cohort is likely to become successful, because there are other factors that come into being successful. But you will rarely see somebody who's successful who doesn't have this trait.

    29. RS

      Okay.

    30. KS

      No.

  9. 39:38 – 45:15

    Being Liked vs. Being Respected

    1. RS

      do you think people are-- people want to be liked more than they want to be respected? Because when you ask people, everybody will say they want to be respected, but their actions tell you otherwise.

    2. KS

      It's about how we shape the society, right? Uh, respect is a long-term behavior, like is a short-term behavior.

    3. RS

      Hm.

    4. KS

      Right? Can I do one thing and be respected? No. But I can make a nice joke, and I can be liked by your entire office.

    5. RS

      Yeah.

    6. KS

      So the world is becoming more and more short-term, and less and less long-term.

    7. RS

      Why?

    8. KS

      'Cause the society is rewarding that right now. But every now and then, the society corrects itself.

    9. RS

      Okay.

    10. KS

      Then realize, "Oh, shit, we can't be short-term. We have to become long-term." Right? Im- imagine the human invention of monogamy, relationships, marriage came from realizing, "Oh my God, we can't be short-term." It's not good for society. Look at religion.

    11. RS

      Hm.

    12. KS

      Every religion only does one thing: makes you not do short-term behavior and make you do long-term behavior. Across any religion-

    13. RS

      Yeah

    14. KS

      ... tribal religion to organized religion, any country, any state, don't do short-term behavior, do long-term behavior.

    15. RS

      Hm.

    16. KS

      So that's the core thing. Every human realizes

    17. RS

      And how do you think religion got invented? Because they must have seen that humans are not doing well, right? For example, do not steal-

    18. KS

      Hm

    19. RS

      ... because it causes a cycle of retribution and destruction, violence, deaths, all of that stuff. So do not steal is be more long-term.

    20. KS

      Long-term.

    21. RS

      In fact, every human behavior that we consider as bad behavior is nothing but a short-term behavior. Now-

    22. KS

      Yeah

    23. RS

      ... where does the short-term behavior come from, right? We have two brains.

    24. KS

      Hm.

    25. RS

      The neocortex and amygdala. Amygdala is the fight or flight animal brain, as we call it-

    26. KS

      Mostly

    27. RS

      ... or the lizard brain-

    28. KS

      Hm

    29. RS

      ... which is designed for short-term. In fact, all the joyful stuff that we experience is coming from the short-term brain.

    30. KS

      Yeah.

  10. 45:15 – 47:42

    Kunal’s Fear of Escaping

    1. RS

      Yeah. Mm. You said most of us who are driven, they're escaping something. Were you escaping something?

    2. KS

      Yeah, escaping-

    3. RS

      Fear of being broke-

    4. KS

      Fear of, uh-

    5. RS

      ... or poor?

    6. KS

      ... poor. Uh, uh, see, when you're also poor, when you suddenly become poorer in your family, you will start seeing everybody distancing from you.

    7. RS

      Mm.

    8. KS

      Friends, family. Nobody really wants to hang around with poor people, uh, especially if you have become poor through your own choices. Uh, and, like, people try to keep you there, but, like, you know that they don't, like, want to really hang with you.

    9. RS

      Yeah.

    10. KS

      And that drives you that, okay, you cannot be that, right? And you're escaping that in some ways. But I think it becomes eventually the OCD that you want to continuously escape only, right?

    11. RS

      Mm.

    12. KS

      You're always thinking about-

    13. RS

      Yeah

    14. KS

      ... I need to escape even more-

    15. RS

      Mm

    16. KS

      ... and further and further and further, and it drives you.

    17. RS

      So what is your fear today? Or what is escape?

    18. KS

      I think I-

    19. RS

      What is something that you're escaping today?

    20. KS

      Uh, I think my, my, my fear always remains in that if I don't understand things. For me, not understanding how things work and becoming better at things that I don't have an understanding of is what drives me. Fear of irrelevance. And I... What if I don't understand the younger generation, right? Like, what if I don't see what they're doing and, and understand their patterns? For example, uh, how is AI going to shape our behaviors? I'm very, very interested in that, right? Uh, because this is a norm.

    21. RS

      Mm.

    22. KS

      We, we, we not realize it, but maybe a large majority of people are already having some version of relationship with their AI.

    23. RS

      Yeah.

    24. KS

      And that shapes humans differently. For example, let's say you are a male or female and you have a more fulfilling relationship with your ChatGPT. What if you find human relationships to be suboptimal?

    25. RS

      Highly possible.

    26. KS

      What will happen to human society then? Like, if you don't think about these things, you're unlikely to do something about it or be aware of it before it happens. See, I'm... If you reduce... If you have the mindset of having less and less surprises about life-

    27. RS

      Mm

    28. KS

      ... it'll require you to constantly be aware about things.

  11. 47:42 – 53:52

    Relationships Without AI

    1. RS

      But why is this need to understand this thing? Why is this need to predict or try to find a problem which is not there yet-

    2. KS

      Mm

    3. RS

      ... but might become a problem? What drives you to actually

    4. KS

      I think-

    5. RS

      ...

    6. KS

      I think what will you do with it? For example, can you build a business with it? Can you understand something? Can you create something? Uh, for example, when we made our ads for the first time and they broke the standard format of how ads were done, and CRED ads became the standard of doing things, we realized that people were done with the same format of ads, right? And you had to do something that makes them come a-awake and notice-

    7. RS

      Mm

    8. KS

      ... and want to watch it without being interrupted.

    9. RS

      Mm.

    10. KS

      And content versus ad, that mindset. So you need to understand that the world is getting bored, right? For example, I had written something f- multiple years ago that people will find it very hard to watch movies because they're addicted to short dopamine cycles now. And I tweeted like many years ago that we almost feel like a meditation

    11. RS

      Mm-hmm

    12. KS

      ... to watch a movie now, right? And to predict that trend and say, "Ab iska kya hoga?" Right? For example, the new format of short drama is taking off right now. It nothing but people watching a movie with 25 breaks. If you ask an average person, how many times did you pause to finish a Netflix movie? The answer may be 25, 30.

    13. RS

      Mm-hmm.

    14. KS

      So they're anyways watching a movie like a short series.

    15. RS

      Yeah.

    16. KS

      Right? To continuously watch without being distracted, without being on your phone for two hours is getting harder, almost impossible. In fact, I'm worried how movies are gonna do well now because people find it very, very hard. In fact, I know that multiple OTTs are telling content creators that please make content that people can watch along with being on their phone.

    17. RS

      Yeah.

    18. KS

      So how do we make money from this now? So I see movies becoming grander-

    19. RS

      Mm-hmm

    20. KS

      ... then it affords for you to pay attention. So the movie budgets have to go crazier, and you'll make a superhero movie and fantasy mythology movie, and like you'll really raise the level. A regular story that used to be big hits before-

    21. RS

      Yeah

    22. KS

      ... unlikely to work now.

    23. RS

      So you love to understand these patterns and behaviors-

    24. KS

      Make sense, make sense of them

    25. RS

      ... and then make sense of them. So maybe it will turn into an insight for you to build a business, or it's just awareness about society-

    26. KS

      Awareness

    27. RS

      ... and it gives you a kick that-

    28. KS

      Awareness

    29. RS

      ... oh, I understood it.

    30. KS

      I understood it is a bigger kick. Usko use kar diya toh business ban jayega.

  12. 53:52 – 58:35

    How Kunal Uses AI

    1. RS

      Give me one example.

    2. KS

      No, this is one example. So what I, what I do is I, I put-

    3. RS

      Something that helped you, something that gave you feedback and you fixed on it, and you use-

    4. KS

      Multiple things

    5. RS

      ... 400 IQ to do the best

    6. KS

      ... all the time. All the time. All the time.

    7. RS

      Okay.

    8. KS

      Observing my interviews, I'll say, "Did I do a good job of interviewing?"

    9. RS

      Mm-hmm.

    10. KS

      "Did I actually ask the right questions? Did I listen to the candidate or interrupted them too much?"

    11. RS

      Job interview?

    12. KS

      Yeah, when I'm interviewing people. Then, uh, I've asked, uh, to, uh, observe something that I've written as a strategy and say what are the things that I've not thought about. Uh, I've used it, uh, in manners where I've said that, uh, I'm... let's say I'm this MBTI, I'm ADD, can you convert this document for somebody who's this MBTI and this ADD and make me readable for me? Amazing.

    13. RS

      Nice

    14. KS

      It makes it exciting for you to read the same document.

    15. RS

      Nice

    16. KS

      Uh, can-- I have done things where I would have a hypothesis and put the hypothesis out there. For example, I'll tell you one recent example.

    17. RS

      Mm.

    18. KS

      I had a feeling that all the countries that had extreme weather became great at planning, and people who do not have extreme weather are not good at planning because extreme weather forces you to have long-term thinking.

    19. RS

      Mm.

    20. KS

      Right?

    21. RS

      Mm.

    22. KS

      Then I noticed that it, those countries also have a very unique trait of not wearing wide range of colors. So people with extreme countries, extreme weather do not have very colorful color palette in their clothes.

    23. RS

      Mm.

    24. KS

      So when you go to countries, let's say Russia, you will see like only six shades. But if you go to a place in Gujarat where they have vibrant colors in their shirts and, and then I, I noticed that, uh, further that they are also le-less likely to be emotionally expressive.

    25. RS

      Countries with extreme weather.

    26. KS

      Extreme weather and people who have less colors and... So I made this compound hypothesis and put it out there in ChatGPT. I said, "Can you rate this on 10 and tell me five ways this may be wrong?" Then it helped me sharpen, "Ki yaar this is looking like 8 on 10." 2 on 10 isliye nahi hai because ye teen jagah example hai ki yahaan pe extreme weather hai lekin toh bhi colorful kapde pehente hai.

    27. RS

      Mm.

    28. KS

      Planning ye hai, woh hai. And then I made one more hypothesis that it also makes them more wealthier. So high per capita comes from countries who are better at planning.

    29. RS

      Mm. Interesting.

    30. KS

      But in the past, per capita income was higher in countries which were more resourceful and had less extreme weather. So if you go back in history, all the countries with less extreme weather were more prosperous because that causes the agricultural yield to be better. And all the technological innovation and innovation which drives planning and efficiency came in countries with extreme weather.

  13. 58:35 – 1:04:25

    Hard Work Yet Still Poor

    1. RS

      I wanna ask you, is there-- Because you're talking also about wealthy countries and weather extreme countries and all of these combination. It's just a very basic question which is coming out of my head and is like, why do you think most people, they work really, really hard in whatever country they are, still they remain poor?

    2. KS

      Hmm. It's a great question. Um, uh, I think, um, the frame to apply is what does your work solve, right? If I'm a surgeon that is extraordinary doing bypass surgery, I work for a few hours and I make a lot of money because the problem I solve is almost life and death-

    3. RS

      Yeah

    4. KS

      ... with a very high chance of somebody dying. But let's say I did some work which does not solve a large problem. In fact, bohot jan kar sakte hai. Then it's unlikely to create more wealth.

    5. RS

      Wealth.

    6. KS

      So what does it solve and what do people value at? For example, let's say both of us get together and build a company that's going to solve, um, bachon ki height badh jayegi teen chaar inch in a healthy manner.

    7. RS

      Mm.

    8. KS

      We found a technology or a medication or some Ayurvedic medication jisse ye hota hai. We'll become very wealthy.

    9. RS

      Very, very wealthy.

    10. KS

      Because it's a problem that people care a lot about. But let's say we build something that is-- By the way, we'll become very wealthy but it's very hard problem.

    11. RS

      Mm.

    12. KS

      Matlab sometime we'll have to give 15, 20 years with no chance of success

    13. RS

      To solve that problem

    14. KS

      ... to solve this problem, and therefore it will not achieve anything. But let's say you are, are doing a lot of hard work and, I don't know, uh, providing, um, XYZ service that

    15. SP

      [laughs]

    16. KS

      And you could be easily replaced.

    17. RS

      Hmm.

    18. KS

      Nobody cares

    19. SP

      [laughs]

    20. KS

      Right? You will not be able to make more money.

    21. RS

      Hmm.

    22. KS

      Right? Uh, a-a-and therefore it's about what comes out of that achievement. For example, software engineering was very hard to learn and made a lot of money-

    23. RS

      Hmm

    24. KS

      ... a lot of people did software engineering because of that. But let's say if AI comes around and makes the top software engineer 10X more productive, which means they don't need as many people, that profession may not make the same amount of money. But for some people-

    25. RS

      It'll be-

    26. KS

      ... it makes them crazy amount of money. Same thing for doctors. Some doctors will become 10X using AI.

    27. RS

      Hmm.

    28. KS

      Right? So we have to think that way. Uh, if hard work resulted in stuff, right? For example, let's say let's talk about your podcast, right?

    29. RS

      Hmm.

    30. KS

      A lot of people are doing it.

  14. 1:04:25 – 1:14:12

    Truth-Seeking vs. Validation

    1. KS

      truth-seeking on what is causing what.

    2. RS

      How do you differentiate between truth-seeking and validation?

    3. KS

      Yeah.

    4. RS

      Because let's say you are an app-

    5. KS

      So, so for example, if you ask people, "Do you want to be healthy?"

    6. RS

      Hmm.

    7. KS

      Survey

    8. SP

      [laughs]

    9. KS

      ... 100 and 100.

    10. RS

      Yes.

    11. KS

      "Are you doing something about being healthy?"

    12. SP

      [laughs]

    13. KS

      Actually

    14. RS

      So you look at data and instincts because so many health startups fail because

    15. SP

      [laughs]

    16. KS

      See, wealth happens when you take something that people are truly motivated by and make it easy to do.

    17. RS

      Hmm.

    18. KS

      Wealth gets destroyed when you keep making something easy that nobody cares about. And that's the thing.

    19. RS

      So most people remain poor because they are, A, not working on making themselves irreplaceable, and B, they are not creating something so valuable which a lot of people are motivated to get easily.

    20. KS

      Or will pay a lot for. How much would you pay for a, a health situation of your family member improving versus couriering from Bombay to Bangalore? So there's a range.

    21. RS

      Very huge difference.

    22. KS

      There's a range. Think about human motivation as some Gangotri

    23. SP

      Hmm.

    24. KS

      At the core

    25. SP

      [laughs]

    26. KS

      ... it's basically simple. Uh, we want health, prosperity, status for ourselves and our family members.

    27. RS

      Hmm.

    28. KS

      All the things we do can be answered in this.

    29. RS

      Yeah.

    30. KS

      After that

  15. 1:14:12 – 1:18:17

    Why Indians Settle for Average Careers

    1. RS

      average careers.

    2. KS

      Hmm.

    3. RS

      Why? Why do you believe so, and why do you think Indians have settled?

    4. KS

      I don't think I've said that we have settled for average careers. I think we s- we settle for settling. I think what I mean by that is that

    5. RS

      Hmm.

    6. KS

      Right? And it was the right decision at some point of time because we were very poor as a country, and, uh, stability

    7. RS

      Hmm.

    8. KS

      Right? So it made sense to chase settlement, settling.

    9. RS

      Hmm.

    10. KS

      But as you look at the gen- next generation, they are not s- choosing for settling because their family is settled. They're not worried about

    11. RS

      Hmm.

    12. KS

      Will I have a place to stay? So when, when basics are taken care of, we become slightly more ambitious.

    13. RS

      So you feel now it's changed.

    14. KS

      Yeah.

    15. RS

      Do you think that's also ... There's a flip side to it. A lot of entrepreneurs complain about it. On the podcast also they've complained, that a lot of young people, because they don't care about settling, they are so flirtatious with their careers, they are not building their depth in any one field.

    16. KS

      Yeah. See, the thing is, um, if you are not worried about how you will be taken care of long term-

    17. RS

      Hmm

    18. KS

      ... it's okay to be short term about things, right? You, you are trying to jump between different things or whatever. So for example, younger generation is a lot more driven by short term approach to life because they have not seen anything long term, right? Uh, we've seen the average length of relationships also to come down-

    19. RS

      Shrinking

    20. KS

      ... right? Like, I often hear people saying that, "Oh, I was in this relationship for eight months." And, and somebody who came from my generation or one before that, it will sound absurd if somebody says that.

    21. RS

      Yeah.

    22. KS

      So I think everybody's timeline has changed, right?

    23. RS

      Hmm.

    24. KS

      Uh, and that is causing this thing of like what we feel of time, right?

    25. RS

      Yeah.

    26. KS

      Okay, eight months. So I think that is changing. Uh, and but

    27. RS

      career

    28. KS

      If you are not driven by, "Oh my God, I'm going to become useless, and I'm going to have no money and no family to take care of." Actually,

    29. RS

      Hmm.

    30. KS

      I don't know. If you want them to become extraordinary successful, yes, you have to make them starve. When I use the word starve, it's metaphorical. It's be deprived of support and resources.

  16. 1:18:17 – 1:21:13

    Becoming Extraordinary

    1. KS

      come alive.

    2. RS

      Yeah. You use the word extraordinary.

    3. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    4. RS

      You want them to become extraordinary, then make them starve. How to become extraordinary if somebody who's watching this wants to become an extraordinary person?

    5. KS

      First of all, you shouldn't have time to watch this podcast. [laughs]

    6. RS

      [laughs]

    7. KS

      But I think the, the, the point around any big achievement comes from overcoming many, many obstacles. Overcoming many, many obstacles is when you are putting yourself out there, and when you are giving it hours, attention, think. For example, anybody who's built a great physique has not got it accidentally.

    8. RS

      Yeah.

    9. KS

      They've given extraordinary amount of attention, thinking, obsession, focus on food, workout, sleep. Like, it's their being Which got, gets them to that particular way. Anybody who's got to any version of success as an entrepreneur, same. Anybody who's achieved any version of these things. And they, they are putting themselves out there and getting out of comfort zone, right? See, comfort zone is a very infertile land.

    10. RS

      Mm.

    11. KS

      But it keeps you safe.

    12. RS

      So if you want to be extraordinary, just kill any comfort-

    13. KS

      Anything. Extraordinary at anything. Like, I'm not saying that you have to ... Wealth is not the only metric. I, I don't know-

    14. RS

      Extraordinary, I mean-

    15. KS

      Anything

    16. RS

      ... anything. Yeah.

    17. KS

      Anything.

    18. RS

      But do you think that that means it'll require for you to just kill your comfort?

    19. KS

      Yeah, it's impossible to be extraordinary in comfort zone.

    20. RS

      What's the truth about discipline and ambition? Because a lot of people want to be ... They think they're ambitious, they'd say that they're ambitious. I don't know if their actions match that or no.

    21. KS

      Mostly they don't.

    22. RS

      Uh, so what do people misunderstand about it?

    23. KS

      See, it's cool to, it's cool to say you're ambitious, no? Most ambitious people will never say they are ambitious. They are just doing stuff, building stuff. They are just out there. They don't write all these tag words on their Twitter or Instagram or LinkedIn.

    24. RS

      Yes.

    25. KS

      They're just doing stuff.

    26. RS

      [laughs]

    27. KS

      [laughs] The need to put so many labels to who we are.

    28. RS

      But when you ask them, they say they're ambitious.

    29. KS

      No. Will, will they identify as an ambitious person?

    30. RS

      Mm-hmm.

  17. 1:21:13 – 1:22:53

    Misunderstood Ambition

    1. RS

      people misunderstand about ambition and discipline?

    2. KS

      No, I think it's a, it's a being. It's what you are. It's like ... It's not a thing that you can

    3. RS

      Do you think it's a trait or a skill or something that people can build? Like, can they turn themselves into an ambitious person or no?

    4. KS

      I, I think the drives are very hard to get externally. You can't get a drive from external purpose. But I do feel that if you are around ambitious people and they are ab- they feel the need to keep you around-

    5. RS

      Mm

    6. KS

      ... you'll become more ambitious. Let me put it this way. I think you can make somebody more ambitious.

    7. RS

      Okay.

    8. KS

      I don't think you're gonna make somebody ambitious.

    9. RS

      Hmm. So you're saying people are born ambitious? Or maybe something has happened-

    10. KS

      No

    11. RS

      ... to them over-

    12. KS

      Something has happened to them

    13. RS

      ... over the years.

    14. KS

      A lot of people become ambitious later on in life when they can turn completely bankrupt at 30.

    15. RS

      Mm.

    16. KS

      Then they get something, and they ... Or they have some major relationship issues, and that makes them. So some life event causes them to ... See, people maintain their slope

    17. RS

      Mm.

    18. KS

      Like

    19. RS

      Yeah. True. You also say

  18. 1:22:53 – 1:27:31

    Aspirations High, Trust Low

    1. RS

      that Indians are high on aspiration but low on trust. Why do you say so?

    2. KS

      I don't think I've, I've said it the way you're saying it, but, uh, I think every human is aspirational.

    3. RS

      Mm.

    4. KS

      'Cause nobody's happy with what they have. Actually, happiness comes from absolutely wanting what you have.

    5. RS

      Mm.

    6. KS

      Uh, and progress comes from absolutely wanting what you don't have.

    7. RS

      Yeah.

    8. KS

      But-

    9. RS

      Yeah

    10. KS

      ... uh, when you think about trust, trust is a very complex thing, right?

    11. RS

      Mm.

    12. KS

      Trust comes from ... Like, if you think about trust, it's a more of a game theory problem, uh, where you could argue that it should benefit everybody to show good trustworthy behavior, and then society becomes more trustworthy, right? For example, um, if the cost of being not trustworthy was very high-

    13. RS

      Mm

    14. KS

      ... in a country, then a lot of people will be trustworthy, right? Uh, for example, if the cost of breaking rules is dramatically going to cost you, we behave well.

    15. RS

      Yeah.

    16. KS

      Uh, think about the teachers we had in school, where we could escape not doing a homework or not doing an assignment, or where you could not. You saw the compliance-

    17. RS

      Mm

    18. KS

      ... to be very different.

    19. RS

      Very, very different.

    20. KS

      So often, good trustworthy behavior comes from that. Let me give an example. Let's say a lot of people are not able to pay back their loans, and there are two broad reasons.

    21. RS

      Mm.

    22. KS

      They do not have the ability. They have lost a job, they have done thing. And some people do not have the intent. But what if we did something like that, that all the people who have willfully defaulted

    23. RS

      We tell them you cannot take Digi Yatra, you cannot do Tatkal tickets. Now imagine five friends are going to the airport and four people go to Digi Yatra and you're like, "Oh no, I'll go from here."

    24. KS

      Social embarrassment.

    25. RS

      So Hmm

    26. KS

      Which happens, by the way, in most de- developed world, credit scores are checked for before renting an apartment. What if people would not get married without checking credit scores?

    27. RS

      That's a good framework to put.

    28. KS

      And why wouldn't you want to check? What if it became normal?

    29. RS

      Hmm. But why is it important for a country to start trusting a lot to build a country?

    30. KS

      It cannot be prosperous without trusting. See, when country cannot be trusting, then we ... All the transactions require too much of checking again and again. For example, let's say if no builder could cause a damage to a buyer, otherwise they would have severe punishments.

  19. 1:27:31 – 1:30:21

    Trusting Apps Over Humans

    1. RS

      Why do you think we trust digital apps but not human beings as much?

    2. KS

      No, we ... I think we trust-

    3. RS

      Like a stranger app

    4. KS

      ... I, I don't think that's the case. I think we trust that can be verified to be consistent. So trust comes from four things. I've often say this, but I'll repeat it. Trust comes from the presence of four things, but it's not you need to be having all four in place. If visibly any of the four things are absent, you cannot trust something or someone. First is integrity.

    5. RS

      Hmm.

    6. KS

      And integrity is not a

    7. RS

      Hmm

    8. KS

      Second, consistency.

    9. RS

      Hmm

    10. KS

      Like a clockwork.

    11. RS

      Yeah.

    12. KS

      Uh, uh, uh, third is like competence. Do they know? Right? Imagine you are trying to go for a, a paragliding, and this guy's like, "Uh, sir, you are my first client." Right? You would not be interested in that. Uh, and fourth is benevolence or non-self-centered behavior. If you knew that somebody is only self-centered, you're like less likely to trust them. So it's not all four are needed. But

    13. RS

      Hmm

    14. KS

      Right? Now, let's say you are investing with somebody. Uh, you see competence, you see a consistency in their performance, uh, uh, you see they are benevolent but they are, like integrity is-

    15. RS

      Sort of shady

    16. KS

      ... shady. So trust doesn't come that way. So only when these four things are consistently done, trust comes naturally.

    17. RS

      Okay, let me give you an ex- example, just a thought experiment. When you look at countries like US, people who are, who have built one sort of organization and they're known for a certain thing, they are less likely to be trusted in something else. So for example, if Apple, who's making phones, people trust them because they, they've shown consistency and competence in phones. It's less likely for them to start selling salt. People will question them if-

    18. KS

      Not really. They would not question. In fact, if you look at the history of US, they're exactly built that way.

    19. RS

      One company-

    20. KS

      One company should do everything

    21. RS

      ... building

    22. KS

      Right?

    23. RS

      But today, do you think they do that?

    24. KS

      No, they don't

  20. 1:30:21 – 1:43:11

    Concept of Trust

    1. KS

      need to because the markets are deep enough for them to not focus. I mean, to, to be focused.

    2. RS

      So you think the conglomerate thing but ... Okay.

    3. KS

      So trust ... See, concentration of trust happens in low trust societies.

    4. RS

      Hmm. In India, it happens

    5. KS

      So because you'll trust like 20%, 20 people, 30 people contribute to 90% of all Bollywood revenue-

    6. RS

      Hmm

    7. KS

      ... or entertainment revenue. Uh, and then you will see, uh, super apps happen in low trust countries. It doesn't happen in high trust countries. You do not see large conglomerates emerge in low trust countries or whatever. But if you go back in past, US also has all of these three things in the past. Because as a society found trust in the institutions, right? For example, if you have a bad fall at a cafe, doesn't matter what the cafe brand is, the government will protect you-

    8. RS

      Hmm

    9. KS

      ... versus you thinking about your own protection. Because the institutions are very built for large scale, automatically trust comes in everything Right? So what happens is, for example, if you go to LA, every restaurant has to publish the certificate of their grading from the municipality on the door. Big sign, ABC.

    10. RS

      Mm.

    11. KS

      If we made this test very solid and we mandated this to be kept on the door, all the C ones will close, right?

    12. RS

      Mm.

    13. KS

      Let me give a different example.

    14. RS

      Yeah.

    15. KS

      Let's say we both make an LED sign company-

    16. RS

      Mm

    17. KS

      ... in which we aggregate all restaurant ratings online, and we sell that to restaurants as the sign you put up. It's an aggregation of all online ratings, and customers can now trust this sign because it's truly aggregation real time with AI to give you the rating before you enter the restaurant. You are walking, you can see the rating. So let's say now we go to restaurants. Which restaurants will buy and which will not buy? Any guesses?

    18. RS

      Of course, the ones with high ratings.

    19. KS

      Correct. Now, the one whose rating is not good, what choice does he have?

    20. RS

      Either he doesn't put it or he increases it.

    21. KS

      He won't put it. If he doesn't put it, the business will decrease.

    22. RS

      Oh, yeah.

    23. KS

      Then the choice is to improve. So either he improves or he dies. But would you agree that in two years, average restaurant quality will go up?

    24. RS

      Yeah.

    25. KS

      That we experience? It's as simple as that.

    26. RS

      But I was asking from a point of view of, do you know any large company which has done multiple things and have been trusted across sectors in US?

    27. KS

      There are so many examples, right? Like, uh, uh, uh, y-you might think, but for example, Michelin is a guide for restaurant and also a tire company, right? So they are trusted in both the things. It is what normal is. For example, Costco is a company. Most people buy their private label stuff.

    28. RS

      Mm.

    29. KS

      Right? Uh, uh, and they take the membership and buy their pulses. It's a retailer, right? So it's very common.

    30. RS

      Okay.

  21. 1:43:11 – 1:45:58

    Status

    1. RS

      have the highest status, likely to have highest status in a country like India? What do you think?

    2. KS

      Uh, uh, somebody ... Uh, always status boils down to wealth or power. The best status, obviously both.

    3. RS

      Mm. What would your brand archetype be if you have to put it out in a word?

    4. KS

      Hm, I don't know. I, I think people-

    5. RS

      What do you think?

    6. KS

      Uh, uh, I think brand archetypes are not something that you can craft.

    7. RS

      Hm.

    8. KS

      You are that.

    9. RS

      Yeah. What do you think? How do people perceive you?

    10. KS

      I don't know. Maybe I should do a survey and find out how do people perceive me.

    11. RS

      What- what's your guess?

    12. KS

      What's your guess?

    13. RS

      [laughs] Wh- wh- what do you think? I wanna know it from you.

    14. KS

      I don't know. You tell me.

    15. RS

      You're g-... You're very, like, a random intellect and wise kind of persona that you give-

    16. KS

      Mm-hmm

    17. RS

      ... at least on internet. And sometimes I also feel that you purposely show that you don't take yourself seriously.

    18. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    19. RS

      That's... Like, I don't know how to fit that-

    20. KS

      Hm

    21. RS

      ... into one thing, but that's what you show.

    22. KS

      I, I actually don't take myself seriously. Uh, I think, uh-

    23. RS

      Huh, that's what we can perceive

    24. KS

      ... uh, and, uh, that's because nothing really matters, right? Eventually, you may do everything in, I don't know, 50, 100 years, nobody will remember anything. Like, if you see history of people-

    25. RS

      Hm

    26. KS

      ... who, like, who achieved extraordinary stuff. Like, uh, I was talking to somebody about, uh, the story of the founder of Bombay Stock Exchange. I met some Bombay Stock Exchange employees, they didn't even know about this person. They work in that institution. [laughs]

    27. RS

      [laughs]

    28. KS

      So forget about [laughs] who else will care about it.

    29. RS

      Yeah. So you don't take yourself seriously at all?

    30. KS

      I, I don't think, uh... I think we should take what we do seriously for the time that we are being around over here, and do it with a lot of respect and dignity, and a lot of integrity. But you do also accept that life is absolutely fragile, uh, and humans c- keep evolving and moving on, right? And, uh, uh, you should just be happy about what you did in the time that you had the gift of life-

  22. 1:45:58 – 1:51:18

    Failure

    1. KS

      So-

    2. RS

      Have you thought... Sorry, you-

    3. KS

      Sorry, go ahead

    4. RS

      ... have you thought that, what if you fail?

    5. KS

      I think the mathematical chance of that is high for every single individual.

    6. RS

      Hm.

    7. KS

      What do you do to continuously get lucky for not being s- failure is, is, is something that you have to build, uh, through observing pattern recognition, so on and so forth, right? And often you don't see that in people because, uh, uh, they're not thinking about converting this into a long-term thing. For example, let's say a company is in the first five years.

    8. RS

      Hm.

    9. KS

      Let's say Tata Group.

    10. RS

      Okay.

    11. KS

      In the first five years were not thinking "... " institution They had to solve a very different problem, sometimes of survival.

    12. RS

      Hm.

    13. KS

      Right? Uh, when you are raising a kid, when it's one, two year old, you're not thinking about, "Oh, lawyer, doctor, engineer." Like, it's hard to... Although you wish for, but you don't think about that. You are like, "Okay, is the baby sick or not sick? Has it got vaccinated, not got vaccinated?" So on and so forth. You're thinking about different things. But I think as you're building companies and you're... reach a certain age, you think about it to be more long-lasting in nature. You don't think about taking shortcuts on many things.

    14. RS

      But have you thought ever? Okay, let me put this in a very podcasty way-

    15. KS

      Hm

    16. RS

      ... that [laughs] if someone was to write a book on you-

    17. KS

      I hope not

    18. RS

      ... and the book title is, like, about your failure, okay? Let's just-

    19. KS

      Ah

    20. RS

      ... put it this way.

    21. KS

      Yeah.

    22. RS

      We're doing an experiment.

    23. KS

      Correct, correct.

    24. RS

      The book title is Why I Didn't Make It.

    25. KS

      Hm.

    26. RS

      Perfect. What do you think would be the first chapter?

    27. KS

      Did not evolve.

    28. RS

      Explain.

    29. KS

      The world changed, and I did not evolve to the change. I did not adapt, did not learn, did not fix my mistakes, did not d- demonstrate discipline.

    30. RS

      Do you think you're not evolving at a pace that you should be evolving?

  23. 1:51:18 – 1:58:25

    Power & Politics

    1. RS

      power and politics result in more quote tweets than any other form of tweet. Fastest way to be called stupid in life is to have an opinion about power or politics."

    2. KS

      Yeah.

    3. RS

      Why?

    4. KS

      Hmm. I observed this, uh, so I wrote that because you'll notice that people who talk a lot about politics are usually powerless in life. And they feel the power by discussing politics a lot. I'm not saying that politics is not discussed by a lot of people. I'm saying people who are obsessively discussing that.

    5. RS

      Mm.

    6. KS

      Right? And especially if they're not journalists. Like, journalists, they are paid to discuss. Aap aise hi WhatsApp group pe kar rahe ho. You will notice a very specific pattern that they're usually not very powerful people.

    7. RS

      Mm. That is true.

    8. KS

      Right? Uh, and the reason of the quote tweet is saying that you make an opinion about something, people will want to bash you because, like, it's this identity driven thing, right? Uh, for example, if you question democracy as a thought experiment, and you said that democracy should be different based on the average IQ of the society. Just try to write that. You might will almost get canceled.

    9. RS

      Mm. But it makes sense.

    10. KS

      But let's say if you, if I told you that, hey, we have to hire CEOs of a company based on a voting system in a company, would you bet on this company as an investor?

    11. RS

      No. [laughs] Never. Terrible idea. [laughs]

    12. KS

      So that's how things work.

    13. RS

      Mm.

    14. KS

      But when you put these opinions out there, 'cause when you have a firm belief about something-

    15. RS

      Mm

    16. KS

      ... it causes reactions-

    17. RS

      Mm

    18. KS

      ... especially from people who are otherwise not very powerful.

    19. RS

      Yeah. That's ... You know, I was at another experiment. I was just reading on-

    20. KS

      Actually, let me give another experiment.

    21. RS

      Okay, go ahead.

    22. KS

      Just think about this.

    23. RS

      Mm.

    24. KS

      Just thought experiment.

    25. RS

      Yeah

    26. KS

      Thik hai? Um, let's say on Twitter-

    27. RS

      Mm

    28. KS

      ... uh, after everybody's name, their average IQ is shown, and that is automatically derived through AI.

    29. RS

      Mm.

    30. KS

      What happens to social media?

  24. 1:58:25 – 2:05:50

    IQ

    1. RS

      Do you think if I'm still stuck on the IQ? Do you think if IQ

    2. KS

      Mm

    3. RS

      ... written a lot in long run people will stop giving importance to the, to the IQ number?

    4. KS

      It's unlikely to happen because-

    5. RS

      Because a lot of the-

    6. KS

      ... there is a strong correlation. You will see a strong correlation of IQ and wealth, IQ and, um, power. You will see strong correlation in that. I'm not saying causation. IQ wouldn't say guarantee you will get power or wealth, but you will see that a very high percentage of people who are wealthy-

    7. RS

      Mm

    8. KS

      ... or powerful have higher IQ.

    9. RS

      Agreed.

    10. KS

      Right? So what you will start noticing is that you will start taking and respect opinions very differently. For example, if I asked an average person today in 2025, "Do you trust ChatGPT more than 90% of your friends?" They might say yes. By 2030, very few friends will be smarter than ChatGPT. So then how will trust work-

    11. RS

      Mm

    12. KS

      ... in that world? Of course, many of our relationships come from taking advice from somebody, taking mentorship from somebody. Now I'm like, "Boss

    13. RS

      [laughs]

    14. KS

      ... relationships might change materially.

    15. RS

      Mm. But then if you go with the rule of social media, where someone who's relatable and is doing something extraordinary, who feeds like he's one of you, you would want to celebrate that person more.

    16. KS

      Perfect.

    17. RS

      So people with lower IQ-

    18. KS

      So, so it's very interesting. Would you want to be seen as a relatable person's fan whose IQ is shown as low? Answer is no.

    19. RS

      No, but then you like to be a rebel and be like, "Hey

    20. KS

      That's what I'm saying

    21. RS

      ... just to justify my li- IQ"

    22. KS

      Yeah, but then you will stop getting respected.

    23. RS

      Mm.

    24. KS

      Because somewhere people will say, like you

    25. RS

      Figuring out the IQ, hang up publicly, I'm already less respected.

    26. KS

      Correct. What I'm saying is that if I don't tweet, then I can choose to be anonymous and do whatever I-

    27. RS

      Uh

    28. KS

      ... am doing, right? But if I'm seen, you don't want to be seen.

    29. RS

      But you want to be seen supporting an underdog and actually be associated with an underdog who won.

    30. KS

      Perfect. What you will notice is that when you are doing that-

  25. 2:05:50 – 2:11:58

    Concept of Respect

    1. RS

      was open, respect.

    2. KS

      Mm.

    3. RS

      You said respect is primarily decided by power and sta- power and money, right? Something, something of that sort. What did you say?

    4. KS

      Yeah.

    5. RS

      Like it's wealth and power.

    6. KS

      See respect, respect is a... Humans have a natural ranking systems in their head.

    7. RS

      Mm.

    8. KS

      And we follow-

    9. RS

      Yeah

    10. KS

      ... people we respect-

    11. RS

      Mm

    12. KS

      ... or we like. Either of the two reasons we follow. Respect may not have a large crowd. Love has a much more larger crowd, or funny is more li- like, love-

    13. RS

      Mm, mm

    14. KS

      ... like love has more following. Respect has lesser following because people who seek respect is a smaller cohort.

    15. RS

      Mm.

    16. KS

      Right? Because fo- for example, will you ever beat people who are, let's say, putting funny content out there? It's gonna be hard, very hard, because people are trying to escape from their life and enjoy for a few minutes. Yahaan pe ayenge aur yeh sab concepts seekhe abhi aur dimaag-

    17. RS

      Yeah

    18. KS

      ... fat gaya. So you would think that respect comes where you say, "Okay, this guy is seeing something and pattern and they, they have doing something, winning something, getting something done, achieving something," and you see the pattern, right? Uh, you may not necessarily love them just because you respect them, right? Uh, some people are loved, not respected. Some people are respected, not loved. Uh, some people are loved and respected.

    19. RS

      Mm.

    20. KS

      That is a golden category, right? Uh, and it's hard to get to that-

    21. RS

      Yeah

    22. KS

      ... with consistency. Respect usually is when you see people great at long-term behaviors. Respect... For example, I can make an ad to be liked. "Arre yaar, achhi lagti hai yeh brand mujhe." I make an ad and I get respected. No. People will see me for many, many, many years and then potentially build respect.

    23. RS

      Mm-hmm.

    24. KS

      Or they will have to see respect through association. If they see somebody else they respect, respect somebody, they will respect. Like, nay respect.

    25. RS

      Why?

    26. KS

      Because people who are very respected-

    27. RS

      Yeah

    28. KS

      ... don't easily respect people. They are very selective in their respect.

    29. RS

      Mm-hmm. But how do you win respect then? By just demonstrating long-term behavior?

    30. KS

      By, by demonstrating consistency. If you asked-

  26. 2:11:58 – 2:21:08

    What he chases in Life

    1. RS

      What do you chase in life? Freedom, money, power, respect, fame?

    2. KS

      I don't know. I, I think I, I'm-- I think I chase knowledge, is what I have found as a more reliable answer all, all these things. I often question this, that what drives me. I think I like to understand things and implement things and create things. Uh, like I'm very averse to fame. Like I often when people say, "Okay, can I take a selfie?" And my immediate reaction is like, "No, please." Like, "Don't." Like, "You met me, just say hello to me." Something like, "I don't want that." And I, I do that quite often, and I feel bad because people are really excited to see you and want to take a selfie with you. But I'm like, like, "Can I say no? I'm sorry." Uh, and, uh, uh, like what I've seen, a only good use of wealth I've seen is access.

    3. RS

      Mm-hmm.

    4. KS

      Because somebody who, who has to decide to meet you has to see ki yaar kuch toh level ka aadmi hai tabhi milunga main. So uska bada use kya sahi hai?

    5. RS

      Mm-hmm.

    6. KS

      Ki for, for example, for you, like when you started, uh, uh, we, we did the podcast how many years ago?

    7. RS

      Three and a half years ago.

    8. KS

      Three and a half years ago.

    9. RS

      Four maybe, yeah.

    10. KS

      Four. Now, your ability to get meetings with people has dramatically changed because, A, you have access, distribution, fame, all of that, which helps you.

    11. RS

      True. Very different.

    12. KS

      And it, every new thing unlocks a new thing, which is very powerful.

    13. RS

      Yeah.

    14. KS

      So I think ye bade kaam ki cheez hai.

    15. RS

      Capital. In my case, it's social capital.

    16. KS

      So social capital, capital. Some level that se yaar isko milna chahiye. But for example, they might want to meet you ki yaar, oh, what if through this I might appear on this podcast and mereko thoda famous mil jaaye? Like kuch toh-

    17. RS

      Mm-hmm

    18. KS

      ... like some association benefit that they might seek from you. With capital, somebody who's trying to meet you is like, "Okay, will you get- ... access of something

    19. RS

      Hmm

    20. KS

      ... sometimes it's knowledge. But I've seen that when you chase knowledge and nothing else, people respect you more.

    21. RS

      100%.

    22. KS

      So what I have seen is that whenever I've reached out to somebody and say, like, let's say I meet somebody from big from the media industry, and I say, "I only want to meet you to understand how movies work, this work,” or whatever. And let's say when they invite me to a party and I say no, they respect you more because you're not trying to take advantage of this person to get access to that world, right? For example, we've sponsored IPL for many years. Well, I've gone for no party, I've gone for no things. I've not even gone for matches. Like, because you'll be very clear-

    23. RS

      Hmm

    24. KS

      ... okay, what do you want? But would I want to meet an athlete in a personal setting to ask them questions about what makes something special? Absolutely, yes.

    25. RS

      But you have no fascination towards being seen with them so that you are being seen more-

    26. KS

      Yeah

    27. RS

      ... or-

    28. KS

      Or get access to that-

    29. RS

      Or get access

    30. KS

      ... part of their life which may not be appealing to me.

  27. 2:21:08 – 2:23:55

    Sympathy

    1. RS

      See, now that when you go in rooms, you're respected and people admire you for n number of things. What's a part of you which you, which you still wanna hide?

    2. KS

      Oh, I think, uh, I don't think I have a part in me left. For example, I used to be very ... I, I, I did not think till I became m- m- I would say decently successful-

    3. RS

      Mm

    4. KS

      ... in terms of money. I ever talked about that I was poor or had these challenges or these things because I used to be afraid that I will be treated with sympathy. And then, and I didn't want anybody to give me an opportunity based on sympathy because it's not merit-driven then.

    5. RS

      Mm.

    6. KS

      It's a little bit of a charity that somebody is doing for you. So I think I... that's the only part I used to hide consciously that not talk about not having money. Like I literally remember that I had, uh, for the entire college period, I had one shoe that was torn, and I must have repaired it hundreds of times. Uh, I wouldn't want to make that the story that somebody will give me an opportunity. But now, when I reflect back, it, it is something that I'm okay to talk about. Earlier, I would be like, "No, you, you have to pretend that you are not poor."

    7. RS

      And what changed?

    8. KS

      Just accepting that it's just what made me who I am. But that time, I think I was right in not sharing that earlier because I don't think anybody should seek sympathy. I think a- as, as a culture, like we had too many sad songs and too many self-sympathizing stuff. I don't think respect comes to people who are constantly seeking sympathy.

    9. RS

      Mm.

    10. KS

      You might like them. You might help them. You can't respect them.

    11. RS

      So true. It's such a... A lot of people use sympathy as a strategy, and then later realize that the only thing it got them was likes, not the respect.

    12. KS

      Yeah, or help, but not respect.

    13. RS

      Okay, we wanna go through all the tweets now.

    14. KS

      Oh, my God.

    15. RS

      And now you have to explain these things to me.

    16. KS

      Okay.

    17. RS

      But some of these things you have already done, but still. So you said, "Success isn't a club

  28. 2:23:55 – 2:25:54

    Nepotism & Success

    1. RS

      you enter through inheritance." What do you mean by this?

    2. KS

      Mm. I think it's earned, right?

    3. RS

      Mm.

    4. KS

      Success is an earned thing. It's not what you get ju- just because, let's say, think about nepotism.

    5. RS

      Mm.

    6. KS

      You can get your first movie through influence. You can't get your 10th movie through influence. It might give you an entry ticket.

    7. RS

      Mm.

    8. KS

      Let's say being rich might get you to a good college. It doesn't make you successful in life. So what I mean by that is that it, it is not coming through inheritance. It is something that is earned.

    9. RS

      Then what do you mean by success here? Because a lot of people actually measure success by money-

    10. KS

      Yeah, inheritance-

    11. RS

      ... and power that you have

    12. KS

      ... inheritance-

    13. RS

      Inheritance gives you both of them

    14. KS

      Yeah. It, it gives you both. For example, but let's say if you w- do not have built an ability to create wealth, you'll most likely lose wealth.

    15. RS

      Mm.

    16. KS

      So most wealth disappears in third, fourth generation-

    17. RS

      Mm

    18. KS

      ... in most families-

    19. RS

      Most, yeah

    20. KS

      ... because of this.

    21. RS

      So it's-

    22. KS

      Unless you build an ability to create wealth-

    23. RS

      But each generation gives respect

    24. KS

      Yeah

    25. RS

      ...

    26. KS

      like

    27. RS

      Inheriting

    28. KS

      Yeah

    29. RS

      ... success

    30. KS

      But I think you'll see people who are not-- people who have inherited money and not built their own, they're not respected as much. People see it.

  29. 2:25:54 – 2:29:04

    Greed & Money

    1. RS

      here's another one: "Those who are greedy to understand the world get more money."

    2. KS

      Those who are greedy-

    3. RS

      Greedy-

    4. KS

      Mm

    5. RS

      ... to understand the world get more money in life than those who are greedy to get more money.

    6. KS

      Yeah. Uh, I think being greedy to money is- Saying that I want to be this guy, but I don't want to find the process of how do I get there, right? But people are greedy to understand the world. Figure out

    7. RS

      Mm

    8. KS

      ... and money just comes as an outcome of that, or success comes an outcome, right? For example, let's say I- I'm an aspiring podcaster. I want to, I want to be like Raj over here and like, "Oh my God, I'm going to beat all the numbers he has." But I'm no interest in the process of how he picks his guests and how he gets his content, what does he do, all of that. And I'm not trying to understand what makes things viral. I'm not trying to understand any of that, and I'm only g- greedy for the end, end outcome. I'm less likely to get it. But people are greedy to understand the world.

    9. RS

      Don't you think it starts like that?

    10. KS

      Sorry?

    11. RS

      Don't you think it starts with just greed for money?

    12. KS

      Not necessarily. Not necessarily. Because, uh, sometimes you just discover money is an accidental outcome of some of the things that you're pursuing. Did you expect you'll make so much revenue when you started?

    13. RS

      No.

    14. KS

      Did you do this for money?

    15. RS

      No. Never.

    16. KS

      You're making a lot of money that as an outcome of what you are still doing for your passion.

    17. RS

      I still don't believe [laughs] this is making this much money.

    18. KS

      Correct.

    19. RS

      I don't know how.

    20. KS

      But the thing is that if you thought ""Paisa banane ke liye toh podcast toh nahi karte life mein""

    21. RS

      Ha. But bahot log paisa kamane ke liye kuch business karte hain

    22. KS

      That's fine

    23. RS

      And uske liye bhi-

    24. KS

      It's very hard

    25. RS

      ... bahut paisa banta hai

    26. KS

      Banta hai but unless they are understanding how things work. Business is done to make money. There's no question about that-

    27. RS

      Yeah

    28. KS

      ... but you do not make a lot of money if you don't understand things.

    29. RS

      Mm.

    30. KS

      So you have to be greedy of understanding things. Being greedy for money doesn't create understanding. The, the core loop which compounds is that. For example, oh, do you want to get a six-pack? Yeah, everybody will raise hand.

  30. 2:29:04 – 2:33:30

    AI & Brain Evolution

    1. RS

      fact because you talked about six-packs. I was reading yesterday, I don't know how true that stat is. Uh, in America you are 4X more likely to become a millionaire than to have a six-pack.

    2. KS

      Yeah.

    3. RS

      [laughs]

    4. KS

      I think it's gonna become 10 to 12X now, because the wealth is constantly growing.

    5. RS

      Right

    6. KS

      The percent of people who are having six-pack is consistently remain the same.

    7. RS

      Mm. So you, you, you said process-driven understanding-

    8. KS

      Mm

    9. RS

      ... right?

    10. KS

      Mm.

    11. RS

      Do you feel with the way AI is becoming more and more prevalent in our lives, we are less likely to be process-driven and more likely to be outcome-driven, and that's actually ruining a part of our brain?

    12. KS

      Mm

    13. RS

      Because now I don't care about developing a muscle or developing an interest of process, I only care about the final outcome.

    14. KS

      Um, yes and no, right? Um, if you do not understand how something works-

    15. RS

      Mm

    16. KS

      ... your brain will not fully develop.

    17. RS

      Yeah.

    18. KS

      So that's a true statement. But should you do something the hard way? The answer is no. Right? For example, we all took vehicles to come to this place.

    19. RS

      Mm.

    20. KS

      One could argue that aapki health nahi badegi jab tak aap chalke nahi aaoge. I would have taken few hours to come over here.

    21. RS

      Mm.

    22. KS

      So the question is that we find efficient paths to achieve the outcome, right? But doesn't mean that we do not know if we have to walk, we can walk or not.

    23. RS

      Mm.

    24. KS

      But if you learn to not walk and only vehicle is the only way you'll get there, then you are in a problem.

    25. RS

      How do you do that in AI case?

    26. KS

      No. So let's take an example of this. If you were not able to write a single paragraph-

    27. RS

      Mm

    28. KS

      ... without AI's help, then you are in a big trouble because you'll not even know if AI has done a good job.

    29. RS

      Which will most likely to happen for lot, lot of people.

    30. KS

      Yeah. So I'm saying that will happen for most people. So what I'm saying is that dependency will increase, then people's brain will gonna atrophy. So actually I tweeted about this, that the, the atrophy that we are going to go through and the dependency on all decisions that we take on, right? See, one is auditing a decision, one is taking help to take decisions. Very different.

  31. 2:33:30 – 2:36:54

    Offense & Insecurity

    1. RS

      the last time you got offended?

    2. KS

      I don't get offended. I-

    3. RS

      When was the last time?

    4. KS

      I don't think. I, I have no memory of getting offended because I, I ... my filter is of

    5. RS

      Mm.

    6. KS

      I don't, I don't have the filter of offended and not offended. I, I usually ... I'm either curious or not curious, interested, not interested.

    7. RS

      Mm.

    8. KS

      That I can give you very clear answers about, but offended, not offended is not the filter.

    9. RS

      Do you have any insecurity?

    10. KS

      Uh, insecurity of becoming, uh, not able to understand something, not able to figure out something is a huge-

    11. RS

      That is-

    12. KS

      It's a huge, uh, thing that I ... It's not an insecurity, it's a worry I have. It keeps me up that do I get it?

    13. RS

      But physically or personally, do you have anything?

    14. KS

      No.

    15. RS

      Emotionally? No insecurity?

    16. KS

      I'm, I'm, I'm sure when I grew up, I had the same insecurity as everybody else did, but eventually realized that these are all less important things.

    17. RS

      Have you ever gone in a room full of people and felt inferior?

    18. KS

      Not anymore. For example, I didn't know how to speak proper English till I was like 23, 24. I could ... Not that I th- can claim that I can speak well now also, but the thing is that, that time I would worry that I would just be a listener. For example, I remember distinctly that my biggest trigger of joining MBA was I would read Economic Times

    19. RS

      [laughs]

    20. KS

      Right? And I would feel like, oh my God

    21. RS

      Mm

    22. KS

      You can, you can do that.

    23. RS

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    24. KS

      But I have never done that. I'm like

    25. RS

      Mm. And then you just went deeper and deeper-

    26. KS

      Mm

    27. RS

      ... to solve that out.

    28. KS

      Yeah.

    29. RS

      Insecure. So you worked on your, on the things that bothered you.

    30. KS

      Yeah. And I think once you understand-

  32. 2:36:54 – 2:42:23

    Indians & Rationality

    1. RS

      on this point.

    2. KS

      What is that?

    3. RS

      On ... Uh, again, you tweeted that "It's hard to imagine for rationality to be at forefront in a society where emotions are celebrated and lack of it is resented."

    4. KS

      Yeah. So for example

    5. RS

      Mm.

    6. KS

      Or somebody who's controlling their emotions.

    7. RS

      Mm.

    8. KS

      So we can't expect rationality to be at forefront over there.

    9. RS

      Is that one of the reasons wh- which is holding us to be very prosperous?

    10. KS

      I don't think so. Prosperity is a very complex topic, right? For example, I would say, uh, one gender is working and second gender is not contributing to workforce. No country has become rich by one gender working. It's a much bigger factor than emotions-

    11. RS

      Mm

    12. KS

      ... and non-emotions.

    13. RS

      Mm.

    14. KS

      Right? So complex topic, but rationality and curiosity, reason, productivity is important. For example, you will never see country getting prosperous without them really valuing time. You will not see a one country that will become prosperous without valuing time. You will never see

    15. RS

      You talk about it a lot

    16. KS

      No, but it's-

    17. RS

      About-

    18. KS

      It's evidence. It's evidence, right? So, uh, uh, if I found a country that became prosperous by being dumb chill, I'm very interested in that. And I'm, I'm not even saying that we should chase that metric.

    19. RS

      Mm.

    20. KS

      I don't know if it's the right metric to chase, okay, we should become rich. I don't know.

    21. RS

      Yeah.

    22. KS

      Who, who knows it's the right metric? For example, we say, "Oh, we should try to make people healthy and make them live longer." But what if they are not wanting to live? Who decides that metric? Right?

    23. RS

      Mm-hmm.

    24. KS

      In the past, people used to live a good life, die at a good age. Now we keep extending their age by doing medical interventions. Is that a good thing? I don't know. So I-I what, what I don't like to do is build these firm views, okay. I'm just saying, if you want prosperity foreign language

    25. RS

      Mm.

    26. KS

      If you want six-pack foreign language. Should we want six-pack? I don't know. Should we want prosperity? I don't know. Should we want success? I don't know.

    27. RS

      Mm.

    28. KS

      What I know, if you want this, you have to do this.

    29. RS

      Mm. [chuckles] But we- when you ask people, they all say they all want all everything.

    30. KS

      Yeah, but they, they don't want to do anything about it.

  33. 2:42:23 – 2:48:45

    Reputation is Misguided

    1. RS

      one of the best things, which I think you have said it to me was, most of the young people are worried about the reputation they don't have.

    2. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    3. RS

      Beautiful. Like so true.

    4. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    5. RS

      Why did you say that, and what do you think? What did you observe?

    6. KS

      No, because the same thing. No, they are, like, worried about how they look, what their image is, their brand, their, their, all of that stuff. And, and I'm like, "Nobody cares about these things eventually." And like, you're worried about these things. And I think that reputation prevents them from learning more things because they're worried about their image too much, right? For example, I see them, I see this generation seeking the least amount of help from people because it's, "I'll look small if I ask for help." So their growth is stopped. They're finding it much more comfortable to ask ChatGPT. But some help is better to be asked by a person.

    7. RS

      Yeah.

    8. KS

      But you don't see them, them seeking help.

    9. RS

      Yes.

    10. KS

      They say, "Oh, I have to be like, maintain my aura." [laughs]

    11. RS

      So they are sure failure in private because they don't wanna-

    12. KS

      Yeah

    13. RS

      ... be seen-

    14. KS

      Yeah

    15. RS

      ... asking for help.

    16. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    17. RS

      Why is this happening? Because foreign language

    18. KS

      No. Social media foreign language

    19. RS

      But foreign language

    20. KS

      foreign language easy. It's a high touch world, no?

    21. RS

      Mm.

    22. KS

      See, these 2,000 people you're not in touch with, they don't know you. They know your image about you. They have a brand perception about you. They don't know you.

    23. RS

      Yeah.

    24. KS

      So you want to maintain that image.

    25. RS

      foreign language was the thing?

    26. KS

      Yeah. But, but as I'm saying, those are the exact people who find it hard to ask for help. What I'm saying is that it's so much more now.

    27. RS

      Now. foreign language

    28. KS

      Yeah foreign language

    29. RS

      How do we break out of this? foreign language reputation, let's say for what-

    30. KS

      I think you'll rarely see success in people who have stopped caring about shame Shameless to important ingredient

  34. 2:48:45 – 2:55:16

    Shame

    1. RS

      What's the level of shame which is accepted or not? Is there some line

    2. KS

      I don't think so

    3. RS

      Just be shamed

    4. KS

      There is no such thing

    5. RS

      Because there has to be some thin line, right? Like not be

    6. KS

      See means saying, oh, you become creepy is a very different thing.

    7. RS

      Yeah. Would you be offended if somebody reaches out to you 20 times?

    8. KS

      No, absolutely not. Why would I be offended by that?

    9. RS

      Like, you're just like, what the fuck? Like you block that person. Like irritate you because you didn't reply once or you didn't reply twice.

    10. KS

      But most people have no craft in reaching out to you, right? They don't establish the value that they provide to you. They send the same text. Like, for example, a lot of people, I guess if you see most people's DMs of, uh, uh, thing. Hi. Hello. Hello. Hey. Hey. Hello. Like, like nobody's saying anything more.

    11. RS

      Mm

    12. KS

      So that's the

    13. RS

      And how do you get over? Let's say a lot of people would reach out to a lot of people

    14. KS

      That's the thing you do establish value. Why would somebody give time attention? Most people underestimate that.

    15. RS

      This also goes back to the school years, right? We are not taught to date. We are not taught to approach. We are not taught to sell ourselves. We are not taught to actually go out and go get

    16. KS

      Same thing

    17. RS

      The same opportunity

    18. KS

      The whole thing. Not like what is this whole like this thing that, uh, uh, like Zakir, the comedian talks about What is that? Mm Is this? No

    19. RS

      Don't go out

    20. KS

      I can't ask how I got to maintain my

    21. RS

      How can somebody break out of this

    22. KS

      By accepting that there's success outside this

    23. RS

      Because I'm trying to go to my life

    24. KS

      Mm

    25. RS

      And thinking about

    26. KS

      But you'll see many people who come from business families are not naturally less. See, look at all the people who are misbehaving at the airport are usually from business families Chilla rahe hain, ye kar rahe hain

    27. RS

      Shame nahi hai

    28. KS

      Shame thoda kam hota hai

    29. RS

      Haan because mere main koi shame like I'm thinking ki kab shame aaya aur kab shamelessness aayi.

    30. KS

      Haan, yeah

  35. 2:55:16 – 2:55:58

    How Gen Z Differentiates on Social Media

    1. RS

      All attempts to differentiate end up becoming attempts to belong

    2. KS

      Yeah. That's a pattern I observed is that look at all the Gen Z who decide to not post anything. They only have highlights sometimes and no posts.

    3. RS

      Mm.

    4. KS

      Like that's their thing.

    5. RS

      Yeah

    6. KS

      They did that to differentiate with older people. But now all Gen Zs do it

    7. RS

      [laughs] Which somebody must have started the trend.

    8. KS

      Yeah

    9. RS

      Now that person must be feeling significant in their head

    10. KS

      Yeah. So I think all attempts to differentiate becomes an attempt to belong eventually

    11. RS

      Mm. [laughs] Nice. Okay, last again, sorry. But resourceful

  36. 2:55:58 – 2:58:57

    Resourceful vs. Insightful People

    1. RS

      people create more wealth than insightful people.

    2. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    3. RS

      You need to explain me this. What do you mean by resourceful people? What do you mean by insightful people? And why one over other?

    4. KS

      So insightful people tend to know why things work the way they work. They have good, efficient methods to understand the reasons behind stuff.

    5. RS

      Mm.

    6. KS

      But resourceful people are actually the, the people who-- So if you'll see many people in small towns who make a lot of wealth are not very insightful people. They're just very good at making money. They are re- very resourceful. What I mean by resourceful is like if you tell them, "Sir, ye ek problem ho gayi hai mujhe ye country ka visa nahi mil raha hai," then the resourceful per- person comes to help, not an insightful person.

    7. RS

      Yeah. Main karwata hoon na

    8. KS

      Haan, karwata hoon na Or some people will say ""He will do it. He, he, he figure out,"" think about your own team members also. You will see that the insightful people are not the one you rely on. The resourceful people you rely on.

    9. RS

      True.

    10. KS

      So there is a difference between the two. Like if you're not the type that ""He will get lost"" and, and all of us have-- we all of us know this type of people.

    11. RS

      Yeah.

    12. KS

      Who will we call if you got stuck with police or legal issues or some challenge, or some topic or some help, some person you know

    13. RS

      Get it done

    14. KS

      ... the right person. And they are not most insightful people. They just get stuff done. They don't think in obstacles, they think in outcomes.

    15. RS

      Is there a way to become resourceful?

    16. KS

      Hmm. I think first is removing your shame, reluctance, resistance, and just being there. And just happening to the world. See, there is two types of people. People who happen to the world and people-- uh, and the second type is where world happens to them. If you are the first type, you are resourceful.

    17. RS

      You need to be valuable to the world.

    18. KS

      No, you need to happen to the world. Like you change the world, you shape the world, you make things happen. You get stuff done. You don't worry about obstacles. You, you, your existence creates change.

    19. RS

      Hmm. Are you that in even the smallest room?

    20. KS

      Yeah.

    21. RS

      And then-

    22. KS

      Yeah

    23. RS

      ... it just gets bigger and bigger

    24. KS

      And boy people do well in life. And most people, stuff happens to them.

    25. RS

      Yeah. They just live.

    26. KS

      Yeah. They, they are perpetual somewhat of a sufferer of the world.

    27. RS

      True. Love it. Thank you so much. It was pleasure having you again.

    28. KS

      My pleasure.

    29. RS

      I'll have you again-

    30. KS

      [laughing]

  37. 2:58:57 – 2:59:43

    BTS

    1. RS

      How are you doing?

    2. KS

      Good, man. I was just saying, Vaishnavi that going to young people's office is like going to a rap.

    3. RS

      [laughing]

    4. KS

      Quotes. Break the cage. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.

    5. RS

      [laughing]

    6. KS

      Stay one.

    7. RS

      It works. It works. It works for us.

    8. KS

      I know, I know. I'll reach out to you because people need to appreciate what the hell has happened. Uh, and, and business folks need to treat this into a very serious business podcast versus like some motivational stuff. It's like, boss, it's hardcore.

    9. RS

      Yeah.

    10. KS

      It's not some

    11. RS

      There is lot of serious juice which goes on.

    12. KS

      No, there is no fucking way you're gonna get this kind of numbers by just like being a-

    13. RS

      Yeah

    14. KS

      ... child doing stuff. There's some serious athlete stuff going on over here.

  38. 2:59:43 – 3:00:31

    Outro

    1. RS

      Thank you so much episode end ""Tak Dekhne Ke Liye"" Ab aapko pata hai aapko teen cheeze karni hai. Sabse pehle is channel ko subscribe kar lo taki isi tarah hum aur bhi valuable guests laate rahe. Number two mujhe comments main batao ki is episode main aapko kya achha laga aur, aur konse aise guests hai jo aap dekhna chahte ho hum is episode main is podcast main leke aaye. And yeh episode kisi ek insaan ke saath zaroor share karna jisko apni life main isse kuch better change karne ka mauka milega. Kyunki ek conversation can change someone's life. I'll see you next time. Until then, keep figuring out. [outro music]

Episode duration: 3:00:31

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