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Dr Rangan ChatterjeeDr Rangan Chatterjee

"Fame Is a Liar. Success Almost Broke Me.” – Jon Bon Jovi’s Most Honest Interview Yet

This episode is brought to you by: AG1: Get 10 FREE Travel Packs and Welcome Kit worth $80 visit: https://bit.ly/43FwxQl TIMELINE: Get 25% off your order of Mitopure https://timeline.com/livemore BON CHARGE: Save 20% off with code LIVEMORE https://boncharge.com/livemore Have you ever thought about meeting your own heroes and what you would actually say to them if you did? When I was growing up, I used to idolise Jon Bon Jovi. I had a huge flag of him up on my bedroom wall and would listen to every bit of music he released with his band, watch every interview that he gave and read every book I could find about him. I tried to write songs like him, grew my hair like him and even started wearing cowboy boots - just like he did. And, to date, I have seen Bon Jovi in concert on 33 different occasions. So, when the opportunity to talk to him on my podcast came up, you can probably imagine how I felt. Jon Bon Jovi is the frontman for the Grammy Award-winning band Bon Jovi. They have been together for over 40 years, have sold an incredible 130 million albums and performed in over 50 countries around the world for more than 40 million fans. In 2018, the band was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in recognition of their longevity and impact on popular music and outside of his music career, Jon and his wife run the Jon Bon Jovi Soul Foundation, a nonprofit organisation dedicated to bringing about positive change and helping those in need “one SOUL at a time.” Yet, beyond the global fame, the sold-out arenas and extensive charitable work, I discovered a man who’s thoughtful, grounded and genuinely curious about what it means to live well. During our incredible conversation, we discuss: • The key ingredients of a happy life: gratitude, friendship, contentment, joy and love. • What Jon has learned about long-term relationships – in marriage, friendship and with his band. • How losing his voice and undergoing vocal surgery became a lesson in acceptance, patience and rediscovering gratitude. • The real cost of success, and why he believes it’s always been worth it. • Why optimism has always been at the heart of Bon Jovi’s music, and why the world needs it now more than ever. • What fame can take from you, and how to stay grounded and authentic in the face of it. • Jon’s reflections on ageing, spirituality and finding peace within himself. • His advice for anyone who has a dream but feels afraid to take the first step. Having this incredible opportunity to speak with Jon reminded me why his music has always resonated so deeply with me. Beneath the anthems and achievements lies a simple message – that happiness, optimism and connection are what truly make life meaningful. Perhaps Jon’s story – and this conversation – will encourage you to think about what brings you joy, who brings you meaning, and how you might share a little more of yourself with the world. They say never meet your heroes - and I understand why they do. But, hand on heart, I can honestly tell you that there is a little boy inside of me, who’s pretty pleased he got to meet his. #feelbetterlivemore Find out about Jon Bon Jovi: https://www.bonjovi.com/ https://www.instagram.com/jonbonjovi/?hl=en https://www.facebook.com/BonJovi/ https://twitter.com/bonjovi https://www.youtube.com/user/bonjovi The JBJ Soul Foundation https://jbjsf.org/ The JBJ Soul Kitchens https://jbjsoulkitchen.org/ Bon Jovi’s new tour: Forever Tour https://www.bonjovi.com/live.php Bon Jovi: Forever UK https://amzn.to/49iMx0J #feelbetterlivemore #feelbetterlivemorepodcast ------- Order MAKE CHANGE THAT LASTS. US & Canada version https://amzn.to/3RyO3SL, UK version https://amzn.to/3Kt5rUK ----- Follow Dr Chatterjee at: Website: https://drchatterjee.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drchatterjee Twitter: https://twitter.com/drchatterjeeuk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drchatterjee/ Newsletter: https://drchatterjee.com/subscription DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

Jon Bon JoviguestDr. Rangan Chatterjeehost
Nov 12, 20251h 14mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 1:21

    Chasing joy: why Bon Jovi feels more content now (and still “in process”)

    1. JJ

      I don't know how many lives you get, but take this chance while you get it. If you have a dream and it's truly your dream, pursue it. I don't care if you fall down. I don't care if you fail. Pursue it, because when you lay your head down on the pillow at night, you just need to know that you gave it your all.

    2. RC

      As I listen to the lyrics in your latest album, as I listen to you talk in a lot of your recent interviews, it strikes me that you're in a very special place. You feel to be, to me at least, super happy, super contented, someone who's very comfortable in their own skin. Why do you think that's the case?

    3. JJ

      It's a process. There has been progress. I haven't quite achieved that place of, you know, satisfaction yet. But in the process, I can take more of a macro view and see how far I've come in these last few years spiritually, mentally, physically, and I, I'm not quite where I wanna be yet, but I'll make it by the target date.

    4. RC

      Yeah.

    5. JJ

      You know? And I don't know what the target date is, but I'll make it on the target date because I, I feel like I'm making progress every day.

  2. 1:21 – 4:04

    “Legendary” as a blueprint for happiness: gratitude, friends, love, contentment

    1. RC

      Yeah. The mission statement of the album is the song Legendary.

    2. JJ

      Mm.

    3. RC

      And I've been listening to it again and again all week, and I'm someone who thinks a lot about the ingredients to a happy, meaningful, and purposeful life. When I hear the bridge and chorus of Legendary, all the ingredients that I write about are in it. "I raise my hands up to the sky." To me, that speaks to something that's greater than us.

    4. JJ

      That's right.

    5. RC

      "Don't need more to tell me I'm alive." It speaks to appreciation. "Got what I want 'cause I got what I need." Gratitude. "Got a fistful of friends that'll stand up for me." Friendship. "Right where I am is where I wanna be." Contentment. "Friday night comes around like a song. Sweet Carolina, we all sing along." Joy. "Got my brown-eyed girl and she believes in me." The love of your wife. Appreciation, gratitude, friendship, contentment, joy, and the love of someone.

    6. JJ

      Yeah.

    7. RC

      That's it, isn't it?

    8. JJ

      That is the keys to a good and happy, healthy life, yes, and I feel like I have all of those elements. Yes, most definitely.

    9. RC

      Did you know when you wrote that that all the ingredients, or what I consider to be the ingredients for happiness and contentment, are literally contained within those six or seven lines?

    10. JJ

      Well, I may not have broken it down the way you did, but I knew each line was a complete thought.

    11. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    12. JJ

      You know? I got what I want 'cause I've got what I need. If that was all the chorus was, that's good enough for me. That's it. That's a complete thought. I don't need anything else.

    13. RC

      Yeah.

    14. JJ

      Got a fistful of friends that'll stand up for me. Boy, if that isn't a complete thought and, and something that we all aspire to in our lives. Um, now you're making me sing it. Right where I am is where I wanna be.

    15. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    16. JJ

      Well, am I really vocally where I wanna be? Well, pretty close. Not exactly, but pretty darn close. I'm in the room.

    17. RC

      Yeah.

    18. JJ

      So I feel good about that, the progress, the process. "Friday night comes around like a song. It's Sweet Carolina, we all sing along." That kind of camaraderie and joy-

    19. RC

      Yeah

    20. JJ

      ... that is my aspiration. That is the absolute only sole reason I'm sitting here in this interview today, only sole reason I'm re-releasing this record, and the sole reason I wanna do another show again, to seek joy, to hold hands with joy.

    21. RC

      Yeah.

    22. JJ

      And, and that's the idea. Um, got my brown-eyed girl and she believed in me. That was who got me through all this, yeah.

    23. RC

      Yeah. You're speaking to Dorothea-

    24. JJ

      Yeah

    25. RC

      ... your wife.

    26. JJ

      Yeah.

  3. 4:04 – 5:44

    Long-term relationships that last: marriage, band dynamics, and “two-way streets”

    1. RC

      And as I think about your life and your career, I think about relationships. So many people struggle with long-term relationships, yet you seem to be someone who, from the outside at least, does not. You have a 40-year or so relationship with your wife.

    2. JJ

      Yeah.

    3. RC

      You have a 40-year relationship or so with your band. What is it that you know about long-term relationships that many of us don't?

    4. JJ

      I don't know if I know anything more than anyone else knows, but I knew ones that were worth fighting for. I knew ones that are two-way give-and-take streets, which allows for growth and learning in the process, um, so that leaves you with a sense of awe when you're growing and learning from the others and as well as an excitement to start a new day. Um, so it mattered to me to take the time to nurture those relationships, to be giving and to get. It has to be two-way. But whether it was the band who had faith, and all the members of the band that are either with us or no longer with us, and certainly with my wife, they mattered, and it was worth working on and fighting for.

  4. 5:44 – 7:23

    The cost of being Jon Bon Jovi: burden, identity, and living truthfully

    1. RC

      Yeah. I think everything in life has a cost.

    2. JJ

      Yes.

    3. RC

      What is the cost of being Jon Bon Jovi?

    4. JJ

      The cost has been worth it, okay? But-The sacrifice, uh, that you make is, is you had to work when others didn't always wanna work. You had to, you know, maybe carry a little more of the burden. That was self-imposed. But you had to learn how to love, you had to learn how to be a friend, you have to learn how to accept, um, a friend when, when you know you might think-

    5. RC

      Yeah

    6. JJ

      ... I, I could just put up my dukes and carry this burden all o- by myself. The- we cannot carry that water all by ourselves. We need people to help us on this journey. Um, the journey has been long. I've lived it. Um, I'm proud of all the peaks and the valleys. There's nothing I've done that I'm, I'm truly, you know, embarrassed by or anything like that. Um, um, I've, uh, I've had long-lasting relationships and friendships, and even if business acquaintances are no longer, you know, part of the fold, it doesn't mean that there was any ill will.

    7. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    8. JJ

      So if you live a good life, you're living a truthful life, you're living a, a, a life that you can look in the mirror and be proud of-

    9. RC

      Yeah

    10. JJ

      ... that's all I can ask, you know? And so whatever cost I had to pay for that was worth it.

  5. 7:23 – 13:24

    Why Bon Jovi inspired “hero worship”: exporting optimism across cultures

    1. RC

      Yeah. For a fan like me-

    2. JJ

      Yeah

    3. RC

      ... you have literally impacted my life in more ways than you could possibly imagine. I remember getting my A-level results, learning I've just got into medical school, got in my car, put the radio on. First song that comes on is Someday I'll Be Saturday Night. And I'm like, "Yes! Come on."

    4. JJ

      [laughs]

    5. RC

      Right? And I could give you a million different examples of that.

    6. JJ

      Thank you.

    7. RC

      So... And I was thinking this week, what is it about Bon Jovi, what is it about what you guys do that leads to this kind of hero worship where we follow everything you do, everything you say? What do you... I c- I'll tell you what I think it is, but I'd love to know-

    8. JJ

      Tell me, uh, because-

    9. RC

      Well, what do you think it is?

    10. JJ

      [sighs] The music, um, exported optimism for the longest time. We were America's greatest exporter of, of optimism. We took that optimism to places that di- didn't even speak the language. You know-

    11. RC

      Yeah

    12. JJ

      ... you could go to the Soviet Union and, and win hearts and minds with a language that wasn't even native to their tongue, and win hearts and minds in, in South America and African nations. And, um, so that was a, a, a, a real thing. And I think we, we also represented that American pop culture dream of-

    13. RC

      Yeah

    14. JJ

      ... you know, fun, that kinda if we can do it, you can do it too, you know? All, all of that was a part of it. And then I grew up in front of the, in front of you. You know, I may have been a little older, but I was just on the journey just ahead of you on the road. So you could see that as something that you looked up to the way I've looked up to my heroes. They were just further on down the road, and we're all on the same journey. So you just, because I got there before you, I could look back over my shoulder and say, "Yeah, this is about to happen," and you'd go, "Whoa." But I wasn't a fortune teller, I just got there before you. And, um, and the journey goes on. You know, I'm questioning things the way anyone else is today, but now that the road, it's making everybody w- play on a level playing field again-

    15. RC

      Yeah

    16. JJ

      ... the globe in these trying times. One great thing is the safety net of you always could rely on that lyric. Well, now I could rely on you and know that you got my back, too.

    17. RC

      Yeah. I wanna read you something, if it's okay, from my latest book.

    18. JJ

      Please.

    19. RC

      This is my sixth book, and this is how I started chapter two, long before I knew I was gonna be talking to you on my podcast, okay? "When I was a teenager, I wanted to be Jon Bon Jovi. My bedroom walls were covered in posters of the singer and his band, and one of my prized possessions was a huge silk Bon Jovi flag that I had pinned up next to my desk. I honestly thought that if I could be Jon Bon Jovi my life would be perfect. I mean, what wasn't to like? He was successful, handsome, talented, and wealthy. He had cool tattoos and hordes of screaming fans. He appeared to be constantly performing in stadiums all over the globe, and he was the center of attention wherever he went. To me, a typical teenage boy, the everyday life of Jon Bon Jovi sounded like heaven on earth." That's what got me in to you and your music. But over the last week I've been thinking about, I think, what is it about, then, why have I gone 33 times to see these guys in concert? Why, when you played Shepherd's Bush Empire and tickets were like gold dust and I couldn't get tickets, why did I go down to Shepherd's Bush at 9:00 AM and spend 10 hours, and I got the only ticket from a scalper that day? There was only one available, and I managed to get it about half an hour before showtime. This is a crazy level of hero worship. And I'm a bit older now, so I can reflect, and I think it was the music for sure, it was your voice, but I think it was the belief that I could listen to-

    20. JJ

      Me too

    21. RC

      ... your lyrics and feel that I believe every word that he's singing.

    22. JJ

      Yeah.

    23. RC

      The passion, the intensity, I think it, it did something inside of me. I saw in you what I knew I had within me.

    24. JJ

      That's right. Yeah. Because I was further on down the road than you are, I was just saying, "Come on." And we grew up at a time when, in fact, I was taught to believe that you can achieve.

    25. RC

      Mm.

    26. JJ

      I was born at a time when President Kennedy was in office in America. We had two working parents at our house that said that you can go and-... be whatever you wanna be. And then I carry that as, as the mantle for the band.

    27. RC

      Yeah.

    28. JJ

      It is the flag. And those are the lyrics that I felt comfortable writing.

    29. RC

      Yeah.

    30. JJ

      You know? And music resonates. Music creates sound waves. Those sound waves got into your skin, and they moved your soul in a way that you didn't realize it was being moved, and it made you optimistic and believing in yourself, and that's a good thing. You know, some songs can make you sappy, and some songs can make you angry. Our songs made you happy, and that was a good thing. It made you optimistic.

  6. 13:24 – 20:18

    Common human needs and divided times: hope, “we not me,” and light in darkness

    1. RC

      In fact, your career has gone through a seismic shift in the way the world operates. You were touring in the '80s. There was no internet. There was no smartphones. There was no social media. So in a world that does seem so divided at the moment-

    2. JJ

      Yes

    3. RC

      ... what do you think you've learned over the years by singing your songs to millions of people around the world?

    4. JJ

      Everybody wants shoes on their feet, food on their table, a roof over their head, someone to love, the opportunity to dream, um, to not be oppressed or suppressed, um, that they wanna believe that they, they may not be the best at anything but can always win. Doesn't everybody want that? You know, doesn't everybody just want that? And, uh, even on a, on a record like 2020 where I was talking about a lot of topical stuff, gun violence and Donald Trump and COVID and, you know, uh, uh, George Floyd, there was still limitless on that record.

    5. RC

      Yeah.

    6. JJ

      You know, life is limitless. You know? It's... There still had to be optimism in the face of COVID. It had to, because without that hope, you know, we're, we're doomed to failure and, and darkness. You know, we have to try to find the light in the darkest of times. So where I said that we were the, the exporters of optimism, and then it got to a place where a lot of people were talking about optimism. After that grunge movement-

    7. RC

      Yeah

    8. JJ

      ... a lot of the, the, the pop movement came around to that optimism. Now in these times, it's gonna be interesting to see what people are gonna write in the next year or two. You know, it's, it's, it's daunting for me not to wanna sit down and write more topical things, but I, I really wanna feel some joy again in my life, so I'm, I'm keeping it away.

    9. RC

      Yeah.

    10. JJ

      But everybody wants the same thing, Rangan. Everybody wants the same thing.

    11. RC

      Yeah. Listening to a song like Bed of Roses almost has a different meaning now when I think about this. You know, "A king's ransom in dimes I'd give each night to see through this payphone." A payphone is something that my kids will never, ever have to use probably. So this idea that you could be on tour thousands of miles away from home and the only way you could communicate and talk to your wife is by putting in some dimes into a payphone, it was quite an evocative image this week for me, 'cause that's a world that doesn't exist anymore.

    12. JJ

      No. No, no, no. Pictures that are instantaneous, a world that has brought us all closer together, the blessing has become the curse. The phone, the supercomputer in your pocket that gives you access to any and everything in a snap of a finger. ChatGPT, my best friend, is gonna be our worst enemy.

    13. RC

      Yeah.

    14. JJ

      You know, Holy Christmas, the loneliness that the kids are finding in that little box because they're afraid to not be up to the standard of looking that way or sounding that way or the attention span of an audience to listen to a song instead of they're giving me three and a half minutes, if I don't have 10 seconds and a TikTok move, chances are they're not gonna get to the song.

    15. RC

      Yeah.

    16. JJ

      World's changed. We have political leaders that aren't motivators, they're aggressors.

    17. RC

      Yeah.

    18. JJ

      But we still have to find a common thread in this anxiety-ridden time, and I think that that crazy word that I never heard before 10 years ago is the word that will allow us to come back together, by simply admitting that in this darkness, who's dark? Me, me, me, me, me. Do we wanna find the light? Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Then we find the we instead of the me in the sentence-

    19. RC

      Yeah

    20. JJ

      ... and then we can get through this mess.

    21. RC

      Yes. Rock and roll has always brought people together, hasn't it? And-

    22. JJ

      Music does. It is the international language.

    23. RC

      And although I didn't go to any of the Oasis shows this summer, 'cause I was away, what was kind of interesting for me is certainly in the UK there was this incredible movement around Oasis this summer-

    24. JJ

      Yeah

    25. RC

      ... a band who hadn't p- performed live for a long time.

    26. JJ

      Right.

    27. RC

      And it was almost a sense of nostalgia from people who went to the show. I think you went s- to see them in New Jersey, right?

    28. JJ

      I did.

    29. RC

      And I think that's the power of music. I think those shows in the summer, and I'm hoping your shows next summer, which I can't wait for-

    30. JJ

      Mm

  7. 20:18 – 22:39

    Evolving without “changing”: artistry, reinvention, and revisionist history

    1. RC

      Um, songwriting. In a recent interview, you said that you don't like change.

    2. JJ

      Sure.

    3. RC

      And I don't-

    4. JJ

      I like progress, not change.

    5. RC

      You like progress, not change, but it's really interesting. Not many bands from the '80s have endured in the way that you guys have.

    6. JJ

      That's true. That's true.

    7. RC

      And I hear someone who says, "I don't really like change," and then I listen to Slippery When Wet and New Jersey in the '80s. The band has a little break. Keep the Faith sounds like a completely different sound of album compared to Slippery-

    8. JJ

      True

    9. RC

      ... and New Jersey. Not only that, that's in '92. Three years later when you come back with These Days, that is just a masterpiece from start to finish with a completely different sound again. So help me understand this idea that you don't like change-

    10. JJ

      Well-

    11. RC

      ... yet you were able to change with every album.

    12. JJ

      Evolution is not change. It's progress. And, and I wouldn't want to at 35 be writing the songs that we wrote when I was 25.

    13. RC

      Mm.

    14. JJ

      And Slippery, I was 24, 25, and by 95, I was 33, 34 years old. So you better evolve as a man and as a songwriter because otherwise you're gonna be the guy that got stuck when grunge came along, and suddenly my peer group are wearing flannel shirts 'cause they think that's gonna fool the audience. That was career suicide. We didn't worry about the grunge movement. We just evolved. And, you know, as, as songwriters and as grown-ups and as family men and as, as men, um, that evolution caused us to write a little deeper and wider and better.

    15. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    16. JJ

      And, um, and it's... But, you know, I love how glowingly people look on the These Days record now, and I really like it too, and the songwriting is great. At the time, because it wasn't as commercially successful as its, the songs be- you know, records before it, people were like, "Well, that record didn't do as well." Well, now they look on it and they go, "Wow, what a wonderful album." Well, we thought it was a pretty wonderful album too [laughs] but it didn't sell as well as New Jersey and Slippery. So with time it's suddenly put up on this mantle.

    17. RC

      Yeah.

    18. JJ

      You know? And that's, that's the thing about history, it's revisionist.

  8. 22:39 – 27:04

    Redefining success: process over outcomes, writing for yourself, not the algorithm

    1. RC

      Yeah, but that's really interesting, isn't it? It didn't sell as well. Okay. So let's just talk about success.

    2. JJ

      Yeah.

    3. RC

      Because when you've had an album like Slippery When Wet, and for people who maybe are not as familiar [laughs] with your career as I am, that was probably the biggest album on the planet that year.

    4. JJ

      It was the biggest record of the year.

    5. RC

      Okay.

    6. JJ

      Yeah.

    7. RC

      So you were literally on radios in every country around the world, the, the... Just going stratospheric basically. The, the, the thing that every band probably dreams of-

    8. JJ

      Sure

    9. RC

      ... that was happening.

    10. JJ

      Including us.

    11. RC

      At the same time, to achieve all your dreams in your 20s can be a dangerous place to be. Uh, we see this with many sportsmen, how they really struggle at the end of their career. I once spoke to arguably one of the best rugby players in the world called Jonny Wilkinson, and in 2003 he scored the winning goal in the World Cup final, giving them the World Cup. But when he came on my podcast, Jon, what he said to me was even before the ball had gone through the goal, he was starting to come down. He had 10 years of anxiety, depression after that, and in some ways reaching his dream so early was a problem because what do you do next, right? Now so in that context, your third album goes stratospheric. You're still here 40 years later. If you define success purely on album sales or downloads, like it's very hard to do that again, isn't it? So h- so how do you define success these days?

    12. JJ

      Well, these days it's gonna be different than it was between Slippery and New Jersey, but unlike Jonny with that goal, I would have said that, "Well, we're gonna win the championship next year or I'm gonna die trying." You know, then hence New Jersey.Or with Keep the Faith, the reinvention in the face of grunge, that wasn't as commercially successful as Slippery, but it reinvented us, and we were very proud of that. And not only did we survive grunge, but we, we thrived. Then I write Always, which is a monster song, which keeps us going into what became These Days. So the trajectory was steady. Um, we stayed true to who and what we were. We worked as hard as we did yesterday towards getting to tomorrow. We didn't try to live up to Slippery because it was a moment in time.

    13. RC

      Yeah.

    14. JJ

      And it was what they said about success or failure of a record. That was on them. That wasn't on us.

    15. RC

      Yeah.

    16. JJ

      Our thing was about do what it was that made you feel good.

    17. RC

      It's a dangerous place to be, isn't it, if you are judging success purely on outcomes?

    18. JJ

      'Cause eventually you're gonna basically do the Macarena because that's the biggest song in the world at the ti- you know? And now you're, you're gonna be do- selling your soul to do TikToks today. No. You know, that's, that's not-

    19. RC

      Yeah

    20. JJ

      ... that's not the right reason. That's not the motivation. The motivation should be soul-fulfilling stuff, not gratification. It should be things that, that move y- your body.

    21. RC

      Yeah.

    22. JJ

      The resonance of the song, not just the cash cow.

    23. RC

      Who do you write a song for?

    24. JJ

      Me. Me. That's it. Hollow Man couldn't be more selfish. Legendary, the lyrics of all these songs couldn't be more selfish. Me, me, me, me, me. You know, that's it, with the hope that someone else'll like it.

    25. RC

      I once spoke to Rick Rubin on this podcast, and he said to me that you cannot make great art with the audience in mind.

    26. JJ

      Right.

    27. RC

      Which I completely agree with. When I'm writing books or even, you know, when I write songs, uh, myself, you're writing them for you.

    28. JJ

      Yeah.

    29. RC

      You know, they say, don't they, in writing, that the most personal is the most universal?

    30. JJ

      That's correct. Because everyone else is feeling that same thing. It's the ones that come from your deepest place that are most likely to resonate with the crowd, because they are living that same shared experience. It's, I can sit here and craft a song with you, and the rhymes can be moon, June, and spoon.

  9. 27:04 – 43:47

    Tour comeback and the voice crisis: years of struggle, surgery, and rebuilding confidence

    1. RC

      You just mentioned you, whether you wanna sing a song 40 years after that you have written it, and of course, you've just announced, after a tricky few years, that you guys are going back on the road.

    2. JJ

      Right.

    3. RC

      And it was kind of interesting. I heard you on our mutual friend Chris Evans' show a few days ago, and I dunno if I read this right or not, but you almost seemed to suggest that, "Let's see what happens when the tickets go on sale," you know? "Will they, will they shift?" There was a... I don't know whether you losing your voice over the last years has really shaken your confidence, because we're all looking at these, these tickets are gonna literally disappear on announcement. And as I shared with you before we started recording, this morning at 9:00 AM, I was on the pre-sale link, and as I got on, I was on at 8:45. I was early. By the time I got in, I was 140,000th on the list to get tickets to Wembley.

    4. JJ

      [laughs]

    5. RC

      Okay? There's only 80,000 tickets available.

    6. JJ

      Yeah.

    7. RC

      So there is clearly a demand. Do you know what I mean? So are you surprised to hear that?

    8. JJ

      Sure, but I'm, I'm pleased. Yeah, I'm surprised. I'm surprised in as much as it's been a little while. Um, I'm pleased because the reputation of myself and the band, um, has spoken to people in such a manner that they would be on the, the queue at 15 minutes before it goes on. Um, yeah, I'm pleased, but I'm surprised. Um, and now it's up to me to, you know, be ready when the, when the bell rings, you know? To come out of the corner and be ready.

    9. RC

      Yeah.

    10. JJ

      Yeah.

    11. RC

      Well, let's talk about your vocal issues. Um, clearly very traumatic time for you. When did you first realize something was off with your voice?

    12. JJ

      Realistically, 2015. Um, '13 was, uh, the year that Richie left the band. We went on and did another 80 shows when, you know, he surprised us by not showing up. And then '14 was a year of kinda turmoil, you know, uncertainty. '15, I tried to do a couple shows, and it just wasn't working, and I thought, "Oh, it's because I've been laid off for so long." Um, I sought out medical help, and in truth, the doctor I'm not sure knew what the hell he was doing, 'cause he was like, "I don't know." That was his answer. And I could tell something wasn't right. '16, we put out This House Is Not for Sale. We do some 40 or so shows only, and, um, they're fine, but I could tell, again, something's not right. COVID hits, which restricts us from going on the road. I wrote a narrative record. We put out Legendary, um, you know, the Forever album in, in '24, and after the surgery, it's not right yet. So it's been a long slog. And, you know, I just have to embrace so much of my learning in these last few years, has been about excellence, not perfection.

    13. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    14. JJ

      Um, and knowing that I've planted the seeds, you know? I've built the house already.

    15. RC

      Yeah.

    16. JJ

      I'm good. It'll be good. Believing that is another thing. And then letting it go, you know? So I'm sort of dealing with all that on a daily basis, but it's getting better and better and better daily because the physical is better, the mental is better, and the spiritual's always been good.

    17. RC

      I'm delighted to announce that AG1, the daily health drink that has been in my own life for over six years now, have updated and improved their formulation based upon the latest science, and to celebrate by giving my audience a very special offer. Some of the upgrades include more magnesium, which supports muscle function and improves the ability of your nervous system to relax, and also five strains of bacteria instead of just two to reflect the latest advances in microbiome science. It also contains key nutrients like vitamin C, biotin, niacin, vitamin B6, riboflavin, thiamine, zinc, and folate in bioavailable forms the body can easily and readily utilize, maximizing their potential benefits. Nutrition can often seem really complicated. What diet should we be following? What supplements should we be taking? And I think that's one of the main reasons I really like AG1. They make it really simple for you to be the best version of you. Over 70 ingredients, one scoop once a day for less than a cup of coffee. So if you wanna support your health seven mornings a week, get started with AG1, and right now we have a very special limited time offer worth 58 pounds, which is around 80 US dollars. To get 10 free Travel Packs instead of the usual five and an awesome Welcome Kit containing your shaker, scoop, and canister with your first subscription, go to drinkag1.com/livemore. I do hope as long as I'm alive I've got the energy, the focus, the cognition to do the things that I wanna do. That's what longevity really means to me, and so I've been taking something called Mitopure from Timeline Nutrition because I know that good mitochondrial health is gonna be key for everything that I wanna do as I get older. I find the research really compelling. Mitopure contains a precise dose of a postbiotic called Urolithin A, and Urolithin A has been shown to have a powerful effect on the health of our mitochondria. Basically, it can clear out and recycle damaged mitochondria. That's what gets me excited. I honestly think that 90% of your health outcome comes from those four key pillars, food, movement, sleep, and relaxation. And some of the potential benefits of taking Mitopure include increased strength, energy, endurance, and a slowing down of the aging process. If you do have the resources, I think that Mitopure is a supplement that is well worth considering. I myself have been taking it for several months now. To get 25% off your Mitopure order, go to timeline.com/livemore. Did you ever have to think about your voice before this happened?

    18. JJ

      No. Even if, even if it went awry, even if I was, you know, in my youth, burned out and, and out there on steroids, I didn't know any better, I didn't think about it. I wasn't worried about it. I was like, "Yeah, it sounds like poop, but I'm not worried about it. It's gonna come back."

    19. RC

      The confidence of youth?

    20. JJ

      The confidence of youth, yeah.

    21. RC

      Because there's many singers who've struggled with their voice. Obviously, Steven Tyler had to hang up his boots recently, right?

    22. JJ

      Right.

    23. RC

      And I wonder, is there something about the '80s rock vibe in the sense that singers today, let's say Ed Sheeran or Chris Martin, when they hit the high notes, they're often going into falsetto.

    24. JJ

      Yeah.

    25. RC

      Right? You never did that, right? You were in full throat voice. Like, I, I mean, I've fallen in love again this week with My Guitar Lies Bleeding In My Arms.

    26. JJ

      Oh, wow. Thank you.

    27. RC

      And I'm like, that could well be my favorite Bon Jovi song of all time, although I've got about 50 top three favorites, okay? [laughs] So it depends on the day. But in the choruses, you go up an octave. I'm like, how is he singing that high in full throat? And then when I think about these back-to-back 24-date tours that you did in the '80s, I'm like, well, maybe that's the cost. Maybe the cost of actually that rawness, that passion that we all fell in love with, maybe there's only so many times you can do that. Do you know what I mean? I don't know.

    28. JJ

      Sure. I don't know either. I'll let you know.

    29. RC

      Yeah. So what does success look like for your tour next year?

    30. JJ

      My ultimate goal that I put up for myself was to be able to sing anything in the catalog that I wanna sing, and I'm pretty close to that.

  10. 43:47 – 57:34

    What the vocal loss taught him: “nothing left to prove,” finishing the race, and dropping expectations

    1. RC

      Can you tell me about the T-shirt your friend Obi O'Brien gave to you and why you wouldn't wear it?

    2. JJ

      Nothing left to prove.

    3. RC

      Yeah.

    4. JJ

      Well, because I think at the time he gave it to me, I felt like if I wore it, it was almost like quitting, and that was pre-surgery. And I wasn't ready to give up on me, so I did the surgery with no idea that it was gonna be the three and a half years of recovery. Um, but I didn't wear it for that reason. And now I, I do wear the shirt, but it has a different meaning to me now. You know, I, I had to do that surgery for me.

    5. RC

      Yeah.

    6. JJ

      Not even for getting back out on this big stage. I just had to do it. You know, if I can sing great in the shower, that would've been cool. That was good. You know? That was fine. But the, um, the kind of bravado of nothing left to prove, chip on my shoulder, me against the world, been there, done that.

    7. RC

      And that's not about-

    8. JJ

      I don't, I don't, I don't need that. I don't need that. It's not about that.

    9. RC

      Yeah. Because you really do from a musical perspective have nothing left to prove. I mean, you have achieved all the milestones that any band could dream of. You've played every venue. You've, [laughs] you closed the old Wembley Stadium. You're playing the new one next year. You've done Hyde Park. So you don't have to prove it to anyone else. Is there a part of you that wants to prove it to yourself?

    10. JJ

      The only thing that I would say about that, if it's at all proving it to myself, is I would remember as a child if I would run nine-tenths of a mile and I just stopped before the, the, the goal line, somewhere in my traumatized head I would say, "Well, I didn't finish the race."

    11. RC

      Yeah.

    12. JJ

      I don't have to win the race, but I did wanna finish the race. And so there was a time when it was very important to me to finish the job.

    13. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    14. JJ

      So this surgery has changed some of the perspective. And, and I, as long as I can approach it with joy in my heart and good health, then I have to do it.

    15. RC

      Yeah.

    16. JJ

      You, you just have to.

    17. RC

      Yeah.

    18. JJ

      With no expectations. Do not focus on the expectation.

    19. RC

      Yeah.

    20. JJ

      Just the moment. And if I can remember everything I've read and learned in the last three plus years, we're good.

    21. RC

      Yeah. When you lose something that you have never had to think about before, your voice, we suddenly realize that we're a fallible human, that things can go wrong.

    22. JJ

      Yeah.

    23. RC

      But, you know, you're 63 years old.

    24. JJ

      Mm-hmm.

    25. RC

      I mean, in my world, longevity's huge, right? Everyone's talking about how to live longer now. How do, how do you see longevity? How do you see the fact that you're getting older now when you've had something as serious as vocal surgery?

    26. JJ

      Right. Right. Right. The, the, the craze now in social circles with the affluent is to try to live forever, right?

    27. RC

      Yeah.

    28. JJ

      All these rich billionaires, you know, they can't buy time and so they're trying to create the Dr. Evil's magic potions. I'm not seeking that out. I don't mind growing old gracefully, but I am gonna take care of myself in real time during it. Um, that's important to me. I feel good, so I'll do the exercise, but I'm not gonna take 99 vitamins that I don't know if they work, and this concoction-

    29. RC

      Yeah

    30. JJ

      ... and go to that country to get that special needle. Um, I'm not really chasing the fountain of youth.

  11. 57:34 – 1:02:59

    Health and routines on the road: sleep, hydration, winding down, and evolving habits

    1. RC

      Yeah. As a doctor, I'm really interested in routines and how we reach our health goals, how we live a happy, contented life in good health-

    2. JJ

      Yeah

    3. RC

      ... because health is related to happiness, and happiness-

    4. JJ

      Absolutely

    5. RC

      ... is related to health. It goes both ways.

    6. JJ

      True.

    7. RC

      And I'm just fascinated, like, when you're on tour, and this would've evolved over the years, but I don't know, in the '90s, in the 2000s, in the 2010s, when you're getting older, how did you look after yourself on tour? Or even today, how, how are you going to look after yourself on tour? What do you need to do?

    8. JJ

      I feel better when I do healthy things. Eating, sleeping.

    9. RC

      But you're an early morning p- guy, aren't you?

    10. JJ

      I am, so-

    11. RC

      So how does that work with rock and roll?

    12. JJ

      Well, if you're really in that touring cycle, everything shifts, and you're going to bed at 2:00 in the morning, and you're waking up at noon, but that's part of the price you pay to be on the road. That's just what it has to be 'cause by the time you travel after a show, and that's just the way it is. But in, let's just say in my non-touring life, I do like to get up at 7:00. I do like to have my mornings. I do like to journal. I do like to work out in the morning. I do a little something to eat, probably not enough before I sing, but that's just what I feel most comfortable in my belly with. But, you know, I know that when... I had a bottle of wine last night, and I wanted it. I didn't need it. [laughs]

    13. RC

      Yeah.

    14. JJ

      Right? But I wanted every drop of that bottle. It was a long day of work, and I was in a good mood. It does cause some cells in the body to be more tired today. Now, what's that gonna do to you? I can tell you what it's gonna do to you. It's gonna fuck with your head 'cause your head's gonna go, "Your throat's tired. Guess what? Your throat's tired. I'm never gonna sing good again."

    15. RC

      Yeah.

    16. JJ

      Wait a minute. Whoa, whoa, whoa, time out. I had a great bottle [laughs] of wine last night. That's all this is. You know, leave me alone.

    17. RC

      Yeah.

    18. JJ

      So you, you gotta get out of your head. I know that I have put in the hours, and I have put in the days and the weeks and the months and the year, and I am better, but these are all things that you learn, you know, and you evolve. So if I could go on the stage with two bottles of wine in the '80s, I would never do that and go and think I was playing the stadium tonight. That wasn't... That just-

    19. RC

      Yeah

    20. JJ

      ... wouldn't happen, you see? So everything evolves. I'm 63. I don't wanna run five miles. I wanna run three.

    21. RC

      Yeah.

    22. JJ

      You know? But I found something else in tennis that moves me, you know, and spiritually moves me.

    23. RC

      It's interesting. I'm, as you say, behind you in age. I did my first UK theater tour in March.

    24. JJ

      Okay.

    25. RC

      Just to be clear, I'm not at all comparing it [laughs] to a rock show, okay?

    26. JJ

      Sleeping in a hotel. You're traveling-

    27. RC

      Yeah

    28. JJ

      ... funky hours.

    29. RC

      It was kind of theaters, maybe 2,000-people theaters. I did 16 dates.

    30. JJ

      Yeah.

  12. 1:02:59 – 1:05:00

    Smartphones and modern life: creativity, self-esteem, politics, and “taming the supercomputer”

    1. RC

      And you must have been so bored at times because, you know, we were talking before about how the world has changed. You were doing all that pre-smartphones, right? So these days people can numb their brains and actually watch whatever they need to.

    2. JJ

      True

    3. RC

      But-

    4. JJ

      We could never watch television or you get CNN in a foreign country. Couldn't understand the language.

    5. RC

      But I wonder if that boredom actually had a real upside. And the reason I say that, I, I made a, um, a TV documentary last year on smartphones and kids-

    6. JJ

      Ah

    7. RC

      ... and the impact that they're having.

    8. JJ

      Oh.

    9. RC

      And I made it with a chap called Matt Willis-

    10. JJ

      Okay

    11. RC

      ... and his wife Emma. And Matt is the singer-songwriter in a, in a UK boy band called Busted, who were very successful like maybe around 2003 time.

    12. JJ

      Okay.

    13. RC

      And he said to me, while we were making that documentary, he said, "Rangan, the problem is these smartphones, I, I don't write songs anymore because I'm just, I'm just looking at this phone the whole time."

    14. JJ

      Yuck. Yeah.

    15. RC

      Well, so that would be time where people would actually, that boredom would lead to them picking up a guitar, right?

    16. JJ

      Okay.

    17. RC

      And starting to sing and, like, writing. So I don't know. To me it seems like are the- are these smartphones perhaps getting in the way of songwriting and real creativity?

    18. JJ

      They're getting in the way of the world. You know, they're getting in the way of your self-esteem. They're getting in the way of, of, of you being a creative. They're getting in the way of, of your politics. They're getting in the way of influencing who and what we are. 'Cause if an algorithm that they're feeding you that isn't necessarily the truth, you know, the, the, the gift is the curse. Like I said, you have a super computer in your pocket, but unless you tame it, it's gonna, it's gonna break you. And so-

    19. RC

      Does that get in the way of your songwriting?

    20. JJ

      No, not songwriting. But, you know, am I victim to playing with the Instagram a little too much? Yeah, I do that. I don't have any of those other things on it. And in fact, I, I have made a point mentally to say I just gotta even erase this thing.

    21. RC

      Yeah.

    22. JJ

      I made sure I don't look at anything about me. You know, I make sure, like, my algorithm don't come up in there.

    23. RC

      Yeah.

    24. JJ

      But, um, no, even getting rid of that is a good thing.

    25. RC

      Yeah.

    26. JJ

      No, it doesn't get in the way of the songwriting, no.

  13. 1:05:00 – 1:09:59

    Spirituality, gratitude, and service: God, humility, and the JBJ Soul Foundation model

    1. RC

      No. You've mentioned before that you're spiritually in a good place.

    2. JJ

      Yes.

    3. RC

      And I've read in another interview that you've been saying that as you are getting older, you're becoming more spiritual.

    4. JJ

      Yes.

    5. RC

      What does that word mean to you?

    6. JJ

      I'm in touch with that higher power, with God. You know, I don't ask for favors or for successes. Um, uh, it's all about gratitude, and it's not going to church on Sunday, which is a little still broken to me. But the connection is there more than ever and ever and ever been. You know? So, um, but it's all about gratitude and that, that's really what I get out of it. Humility, gratitude, and knowing that, you know, everything happens for a reason.

    7. RC

      Have you always believed that?

    8. JJ

      Well, it's been magnified more as I've gotten older. So-

    9. RC

      Does being a creator, um, does songwriting perhaps feed into that belief that there's something greater out there in the sense that, like, where do these songs come from? I know you're-

    10. JJ

      That's for sure. A little bit of that. Sure. A little bit of that. I mean, our better angels are all out there if we had take the time to see them. You know, it's a dark world in my opinion right now. But there are beams of light, and there are people that are doing good that aren't in the spotlight and not on your podcast and not on the stage behind a microphone. But they are the ones that are keeping the lights on. And these are very trying times. And with kids that are victims of these smartphones, for example, and the, the learning deficit that happened during COVID, those five years that grades are falling behind, and it's, it's scary as fuck out there right now. But there are people that are shining rays of, of light, and I'm, I'm still not giving up on-

    11. RC

      Yeah

    12. JJ

      ... on the it because of them.

    13. RC

      You're a very humble guy. You say there's people out there doing great work, but, but so are you and your wife.

    14. JJ

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    15. RC

      So can you just tell people about the Soul Foundation, what it is, and why it's so important to you and your wife to actually do this kind of charitable work?

    16. JJ

      We've done it for a long time. World travel made us a little more enlightened when realizing that there were the haves and the have-nots, and that divide was happening more and more and more as my life has gone on. When we started the foundation some 20 years ago, it was under the guise of sport ownership. I used to own an arena football team. Uh, in order to ingratiate ourselves to the community, I wanted to be more philanthropic than what we called the Big Four, baseball, basketball, hockey. And, um, and at first we were whatever you needed. Pencils, computers, bedsheets. Okay, fine.

    17. RC

      Yeah

    18. JJ

      We give it to an orphanage. And then one night when I saw a homeless man sleeping on a grate outside of city hall, and I realized that you didn't have to be young or old, Black or white, Republican or Democrat, homelessness could hit anybody at any moment, as most of the world live paycheck to paycheck. Two bad weeks or months and you're on the street. So I found an expert in the field who taught me everything I know about it. In 2008, Dorothea conceptualized the Soul Kitchens, where there are no prices on any of the menus. It's all farm-to-table food. If you wanna come there and effect change directly instead of writing a check to a charity and wondering what, you know, what good did you do, you'd see it because your donation just paid for your meal and the meal for someone in need. The person that was in need, and you would never know the difference between you and the person in need, um, they volunteer for their meal, and in turn, they're empowered.

    19. RC

      Yeah.

    20. JJ

      And empowerment is the key to the universe. 'Cause now there's a pride in it.

    21. RC

      Yeah.

    22. JJ

      There's a, there's a sense of, "I'm a part of this." And so we have four of these restaurants, and the need is only growing. Um, and, and it works. We don't need the scientists to find the cure. [laughs]

    23. RC

      What has it given you?

    24. JJ

      Oh, a great sense of satisfaction. Great sense of pride in knowing that, you know, you're putting warm food in someone's belly. It, it, it's, it's as comforting as, as you imagine it would be. You can't think of yourself in that position without wanting to cry. And, and it's given me great feeling of satisfaction and pride knowing that our little ripple in the, in the water has resonated.

    25. RC

      Yeah. What does happiness mean to you today?

    26. JJ

      I mean, it's, um, top of my list. To be happy is just to be joy-filled, to be, um, thinking of myself less, and to be fear less the way I once was, um, would give me all the happiness that I want in the world, you know? And I know what we do in service, that's all well and good, and I feel good about that. But spreading that optimism is, um, is something that I look forward to doing, you know, in the, in the next years.

  14. 1:09:59 – 1:14:26

    Family, fatherhood, regrets, and the closing life advice: pursue the dream

    1. RC

      You're a parent.

    2. JJ

      Yeah.

    3. RC

      You're a new grandparent, I believe, as well. Congratulations.

    4. JJ

      Thank you.

    5. RC

      Um, I'm super fascinated by what is it like being the children of Jon Bon Jovi? Is it hard, do you think, growing up when your dad has been so mega successful? That's a kind of a tough bar, isn't it?

    6. JJ

      Well, in as much as what would your work ethic be, no shortage of that. Um, so they're all working very hard independent of each other, and I love what they're all doing. The blessing and the curse of being the son of is that, you know, your name is recognized everywhere and everyone's gonna look at you. Um, most times because, you know, we've done a lot of good in the world that benefits them. Um, and so, you know, overall, it's not been bad. Um, it's not easy.

    7. RC

      Yeah.

    8. JJ

      But it's, it's not bad either.

    9. RC

      Yeah. For sure. Any regrets?

    10. JJ

      Even the bad was okay because, you know-

    11. RC

      [laughs]

    12. JJ

      ... th- th- these were lessons learned. Even the bad things that you did in your life were not bad enough to put you in jail or give you cancer.

    13. RC

      Yeah.

    14. JJ

      So everything else was an opportunity to learn from it.

    15. RC

      Yeah. I think a lot about regrets, and I've come to believe that regrets are a form of perfectionism actually. You mentioned perfectionism before. Because I think regrets for many of us, at, at their heart, there is this belief that we think that we could've done better, but I think we're always doing the best that we can based upon what we know and based upon what we have availability to do.

    16. JJ

      Yeah. And, and what you put into it.

    17. RC

      And what you put into it.

    18. JJ

      Yeah.

    19. RC

      So I kind of feel in some ways, and I know not everyone will agree with this, but I certainly feel for me that regrets are a waste of time in the sense that that's not me saying that I couldn't have improved things, but I'm like, no, let me look back and go, "Ah, you know what? I made that decision, but if I'm in that situation again, I'm gonna make a different decision-

    20. JJ

      I get that

    21. RC

      ... now because I've learnt."

    22. JJ

      Failure is different than regret.

    23. RC

      Yeah, exactly.

    24. JJ

      You can fail all day long. That's so... That's, in fact, that's great.

    25. RC

      Yeah.

    26. JJ

      Regret is, is not getting up to work out so that you can run the marathon.

    27. RC

      Yeah.

    28. JJ

      Regret is staying in with a drink and the drug instead of writing the song that day.

    29. RC

      Yeah.

    30. JJ

      You know? So yeah, it's all been great.

Episode duration: 1:14:26

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