REPROGRAM Your Subconscious Mind To STOP NEGATIVE THOUGHTS Today! | Peter Crone

Peter Crone 0:00 That's why I feel my work has helped so many people who have had sicknesses and diseases, some of which have been chronic, 'cause as soon as they let go of the internal mechanism that creates that dis-ease and they find peace, then their external physiology eventually is given the permission to actually heal itself, and miracles literally do happen. [upbeat music]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 0:25 Why do so many of us these days seem to struggle with negative thoughts and anxiety?

Peter Crone 0:34 Well, I mean, what's going on in the world, that certainly hasn't helped the issue, right? Like, there's just an immense amount of uncertainty right now, and any organism's primordial imperative is to survive, right? So let's just start there. So what does that mean in plain English? As human beings, our predominant fear is for our own existence, right? So we want to perpetuate our living, and so anything that is a, perceived as a potential threat to that is going to inspire fear. So if we look at anxiety on a spectrum, there's gonna be these bedfellows, apprehension, concern, worry, fear. They're sort of, they're all bedfellows of anxiety, right? Sort of as a broad umbrella term, and they all speak to our perception of a future that really is undesirable, right? One of the quotes I use, I say, "Most people are trying to avoid a bad future that hasn't happened yet." [laughs] So that, that perception, that projection, the brain which is designed to predict and protect is, is creating an illusion of a future that is undesirable to one's existence. Now, that could be truly an esoteric conversation, existential, or it could be like, "I'm gonna get in trouble with the boss," or, "My wife is gonna be mad at me," right? It's not really a threat to our literal existence, but to the ego, there's a perception that something, quote-unquote, "bad" is gonna happen, and so in present time, there's an apprehension about that. And then there's, as I said, there's a gradient of, like, panic attacks and terror to anxiety to fear. There's different iterations of that concern for the future that ironically our own brain is creating. That's the madness, right? So I, I have complete compassion for people who struggle with anxiety. I'm actually doing a workshop on anxiety this coming Saturday, [laughs] and I want people to understand it's self-generated. So to answer your question why, well, because sh- as mammals, as humans, we want to exist, and the brain is sort of designed to look out for anything sort of potentially going to threaten that. And so there's this mild unrest where we feel like, ooh, you know, something could go down where my life is gonna be in jeopardy. It's primal. At, at the deepest level, it's a primal way that we just try to survive. The quintessential saber-toothed tiger out there that might take our life when we go out to get food. Except now you're going to Tesco's [laughs] to pick up some bread. You know, you're not gonna probably get mauled by a saber-toothed tiger, but you might run into someone who you don't get along with, and you don't wanna have to deal with that sort of disagreement energy.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 3:26 Anxiety, then, at its core, or fear I should say at its core, is there to protect us. So if we are in real physical danger, we want fear, right? We want that-

Peter Crone 3:39 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 3:39 ... as a protective response so that we can change our behavior, take aversive action so that what we think may happen doesn't happen.

Peter Crone 3:48 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 3:48 I guess it's when we start to utilize that same mechanism, that same way of thinking when the threat actually just isn't real. It's this imagined threat in the future.

Peter Crone 4:01 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 4:01 A- and that's why I love that quote. You know, we're, we're trying to prevent this future and, and we're getting anxious in the present about a future that hasn't yet happened.

Peter Crone 4:09 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 4:09 Yet so many people do that. So how do you help people in that situation?

Peter Crone 4:15 So first of all, awareness of the pattern to, to recognize that that is the tendency of a human being, and especially when somebody's had, you know, some past traumas, right? Which fill in the blank. It's every human being, [laughs] right? Everybody's going to have gone through their version of something to the extremes of physical abuse, sexual abuse, which is of course abhorrent and awful, to maybe somebody who just wasn't picked for the footy team and they felt left out, right? But it, to a child, it's traumatic. And so the brain, whenever, again, one of my quotes which I know you're familiar with, I say, "Past hurt informs future fear." So wherever we've had any past hurts, then the brain is gonna go, "Well, that sucked. I don't wanna do that again. I'm gonna make sure that I can personally manage and control my environment such that I mitigate the repetition of the thing that hurt," right? Which seems very logical. Unfortunately, it's really not, because what happens is we tend to perpetuate the very thing we're trying to avoid because we're actually in the energy of it. We haven't reconciled it. So when I'm helping people, I'm really cleaning up their history so that they're no longer using that as evidence to project into a future possible repetition of something that hurt them, right? So, like, I take one of my NBA players, basketball, who had the worst league... I think I spoke about him on the first podcast we did.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 5:40 Yeah, you did.

Peter Crone 5:40 But he had the, the worst league, um, average in terms of free throw shooting at 37%. The league average is 75, so it's not even 50% of that. Like, it's half of the average. And so what was happening in his brain, 'cause it's, for an athlete who's being paid millions of dollars to perform, it's, it's embarrassing. It's, you know, he felt guilt and shame and all of these things that human beings do everything we can to avoid. So when he's standing there, his brain is like, "Well, make sure you don't miss again 'cause that really hurts." But now he's actually put himself into a position of a preemptive failure, which for an athlete is kryptonite because now he's tense, and he's worried, which doesn't allow him to perform from the place that he does effortlessly when he's relaxed. So it's really, it becomes self-fulfilling. This is when people talk about the self-fulfilling prophecy of the mind is, well, if we worry about a fear, then we tend to actually live from a place energetically with a frequency that is the precursor to it. So that, you know, that's where we, you know, we attract the very thing that we're trying to avoid, ironically, until such time that we get to a place where we can go, "Oh my gosh, I'm just living from history, and my hurts and fears are the byproducts of things that I haven't fully accepted in my life." So to answer your question, first thing is the awareness of the pattern. Secondly, compassion. It's okay. You're human. You're, you know, there's not a human being on the planet who doesn't have some kind of fear. It's okay. You know, if you're a parent, you understand if, if the kid is, if your child is scared, you, you, you hold a space for them. You don't berate them, or you don't judge them and go, "That's stupid." You know, you, you have compassion. You're like, "It's okay. Come here." You would hold them. You'd give them a hug. You'd reassure them, right? So that's what we want to do for ourselves is recognize, "Oh, okay, it's just a primal pattern in me where I'm trying to avoid something that could hurt me." That's, you know, survival, as you said. But it's unnecessary 'cause I'm the one creating the illusion of the future that I'm now trying to avoid. [laughs] When you, when you see that part, it becomes kind of comical. You've got one brain, like if you really break it down, one brain projecting a future that you don't want, and then the same brain that created the illusory future is now trying to avoid it.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 8:05 Yeah.

Peter Crone 8:05 [laughs] I mean, when you really see that, it, it becomes borderline comical. I, I tell people, you, you can't help but laugh when you realize the only thing upsetting you is your own imagination. [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 8:20 What I love about your approach and, and our, and our previous conversations, Peter, is you, you really help bring an awareness to people, and I think that awareness is, is such a crucial and critical step because until we get that awareness, we're, we're sort of walking around with blindfolds on. We sort of are at the mercy of other people and other things around us influencing the way we act, and we kind of feel that if the world around us changed, if the people around us changed and behaved-

Peter Crone 8:57 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 8:57 ... in a different way, we'd be okay.

Peter Crone 9:00 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 9:01 When you get to that point, uh, and I'd like to think I did a few years back, where you realize that that is not the case at all, that is a myth that you have created inside your brain-

Peter Crone 9:13 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 9:13 ... it is freedom. And, and I can see why you say that the main product you offer people is freedom.

Peter Crone 9:19 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 9:20 And I'd love you to sort of define what do you mean by freedom? Because-

Peter Crone 9:24 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 9:24 ... I think if you asked 10 people on the street, "Would you like to be free?" They'd say, yeah. But I guess those 10 people might have a different definition of what freedom really means. So what does it mean to you?

Peter Crone 9:36 They also might think that they already are. Therein lies the real conundrum, right? 'Cause you go up to Joe Blow on the street and say, you know, "Are you free?" They'd be like, "Well, yeah." Like, you know, they're under the impression from a conscious perspective, meaning the conscious thinking they have, that they have free will, that they, you know, if they wanna go to work, they go to work. If they want to go to the pub, they go to the pub. Like, they're under the impression that because they have some illusion of choice that they're free. What I'm pointing to, and you articulated it beautifully, is that one of the biggest illusions of a human being is that our experience is generated from circumstance. So it therefore, ipso facto, it's only sensical that if we think we feel the way we feel because of what's going on, well, then what are we gonna do? We're gonna try and control what's going on because that's the precursor to how we feel, and we want to feel good. But that's exhausting. There's no freedom there at all. That's called victim of circumstance, [laughs] right? So my product, what I mean about freedom, to quote Krishnamurti, who was one of my sort of teachers when I was very young and I found his books, he, he'd already passed. He's sort of an old traditional Indian guru. And, um, his, he had a beautiful quote. He said, "This is my secret. I don't mind what happens." [laughs] And, you know, there's, if you can really feel into the energy of that, it's incredibly liberating. Now, I, I've, I've got an addendum to that. I say, yeah, I don't mind what happens, and I have a personal preference, right? So I can get to a place where, yeah, I'm okay with the fact that whatever's going on is going on, and if I don't have any direct control over that, then it's a futile endeavor for me to just grapple with something that's not in my immediate zone of some sort of responsibility. So that's where we want to reconcile and surrender and go, "Okay, well, it is the way it is." It's not like I don't want my flight to be canceled, for example, and that's going to have the ramifications of now I'm gonna be late for my meeting wherever I'm flying to, or I'll miss my connection or whatever it is. I don't want that to happen. But if I'm sitting at the gate in an airport and just getting really bent out of shape, that's all self-inflicted. Now I'm a victim of circumstance. Versus to stay centered, to stay at peace, to have a much bigger understanding of the universe as a whole and the things that are unfolding are in accordance with how things are unfolding and not to be in a state of resistance to that is what elicits the internal experience of freedom. I'm, I'm no longer at the mercy of what's unfolding. In fact, we never were. That's the irony. We think we're, you know, I'm upset because the missus said something, or I'm upset because my family did something, or I'm upset because I lost some money on the stock market. No, none of that ever affected anyone. It didn't. What affected us is our reaction to it. So it's still us. [laughs] So I'm helping people transcend that world of self-inflicted suffering under the guise of, the illusion of, that it was the external world that was the instigator of your suffering. No, it looked that way, but it never was. And once you see the truth, which is, wow, I am 100% responsible for the experience of my life, I'm the one generating how I feel, then why would anybody with an ounce of intelligence want to generate suffering? They wouldn't. And that's freedom.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 13:11 Yeah. It, it's sort of beyond intelligence though, isn't it? Because you're right. People, when they hear that, they, they don't want to generate their own suffering-

Peter Crone 13:19 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 13:20 ... yet they often still do. And it's, it's not-

Peter Crone 13:23 Of course

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 13:23 ... it's not because there's not a desire to change it. Uh, because ultimately we create the narrative. We can write the story that we wanna write about that event that just happened.

Peter Crone 13:32 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 13:33 And, you know, why not choose a story that, that kind of sits well with us and keeps us relaxed and calm and... You know, I think-

Peter Crone 13:39 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 13:39 ... that plane example, the plane being late or the train being late or the bus being late-

Peter Crone 13:44 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 13:44 ... whatever it is, right?

Peter Crone 13:46 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 13:46 I think it's a really good example 'cause it's a very tangible kind of day-to-day event that-

Peter Crone 13:51 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 13:52 ... affects a lot of people. So if we just use that example, I don't know if you've had an experience with this recently or not, but what can someone do in that situation? So, you know, they're waiting for... They're waiting on the train. They're waiting for the train to take them into London because they've got a meeting.

Peter Crone 14:10 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 14:10 But the train's canceled because of road, travel works or whatever works. Rail works, I should say.

Peter Crone 14:15 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 14:16 And they're like, "Man, I'm gonna miss my meeting." And then you can actually feel that stress start to build up in your body as-

Peter Crone 14:23 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 14:23 ... that is happening. So in that moment-

Peter Crone 14:26 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 14:26 ... what can someone do to kind of change the narrative and stop that, uh, lack of ease building up inside themselves?

Peter Crone 14:35 Uh,

Peter Crone 14:35 great question. So first of all, what you said is, like, to feel, like, the primal reaction to that, right? Like, you can feel the stress. You might get a little sweaty in the armpits. The brain starts to ruminate a little bit more. You're trying to figure out solutions. It's a mild form of panic, right? Panic is a strong word, but really, viscerally, biologically, we go into a state of mild panic. So why? Well, the subtext of the reaction is that there's gonna be some sort of pending doom, right? In lay terms, there's this feeling that it's not gonna work out. Like, whatever it is that we think we need to get, we're, we're, we're putting the future in a context of concern that whatever the intention is, going to work or going to a job interview or meeting, you know, maybe you got a, a hot date you're on the way to and you're, you're not gonna be there on time. There's this feeling fundamentally of the experience of loss, which for a human being is very scary because it fights the primal instinct to feel secure, right? We want to feel held. We want to feel safe. And when something in any way intervenes potentially with what we think is gonna give us that security, I mean, we think about all the things that give us security, like money is a big one, job security, financial security, even a relationship, having sort of some sort of love or companionship as a form of security. So when there's any perceived threat that could pull any of those things away, then the primal urge in us is like, "Oh, no, I'm not gonna be okay." Now, to notice that pattern and realize it's illusory, it... You feel that way, but as I tell nearly everyone, your feelings are a lousy indicator of truth. [laughs] Right? Just 'cause you feel that way, it's not what's gonna happen. So if you're sitting there and maybe you're, you know, a little bit nervous, you're on the way to a job interview, and it means a lot to you because certainly with what's been going on in the world, maybe you've been laid off, made redundant or something, and you're feeling the pressure of paying rent or your mortgage and providing for your family. These are all very real situations, and so going to the interview means a lot to you. So wherever we put more significance, we're actually also leaving ourselves more vulnerable, right? Wherever we put more importance on something, we're actually creating more potential resistance.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 17:07 Mm.

Peter Crone 17:07 Right? So once we see that and go, "Okay, this means so much to me. I really need this job," well, then, if the train's canceled, then the cancellation is, like, magnified, right? Because there's this significance to the event itself which appears like it's not gonna work. Now, what could someone do in that situation? Well, first of all, you've just gotta deal with reality, right? Which is you can't just, like, click your fingers and, you know, sort of like Alice in Wonderland or something appear at the interview site. You, you know, you've just gotta deal with it. Maybe you get out the Underground and you get a cab and... Or maybe the next train is only gonna be 20 minutes. I don't know. And you be responsible. You maintain integrity. So you would call the person, the company that you're going for an interview and say, you know, "I really apologize for the inconvenience. I'm on my way. Unfortunately, a train has been canceled. This really means a lot to me. I hope that we can, you know, m- uh, reschedule for 30 minutes from now." You know, you don't know how that's gonna be met when you come from an authentic place. They might find that to be the most important part of your interview process because of the way you dealt with it. So you could energetically say that's actually the best thing that ever happened because I can display to this potential employer how responsible I am and the degree of integrity I have that I'm gonna communicate to you and let you know that, yes, life happens, but I'm handling it gracefully. And hopefully that bodes well for you looking at me as a potential employee where there can be stressful situations, but I'm already displaying before I even get to the interview site that I can handle these things. So it could, through reframing, be the best part of your day that it got canceled and you were able to demonstrate the ability that you have to have integrity, responsibility, and authenticity, and therefore, you got the job before you even got there, right? That's, that's how my brain works is everything is an opportunity.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 19:06 Yeah.

Peter Crone 19:06 And it reminds me in kanji, you know, which is the Japanese symbols, the word for, um, challenge and opportunity, it's the same symbol.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 19:18 Love it.

Peter Crone 19:19 Yeah. But it's just, it's so, like, just the energetics of understanding that is, so, okay, it looks like something bad happened. In my world, no- nothing ever bad happens. Just something happens, and then it's the way that we choose to reframe it.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 19:33 Yeah, I love that. And if we played that story out even further, and I, I think the key, the key thing there for me was, you know, having integrity and coming from a place of authenticity when you call up that person to reschedule or explain what's happened.

Peter Crone 19:49 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 19:49 And yeah, that could be the best part of the interview process. But let's say the people who you have an interview with didn't like that and they said, "No, no, we're not gonna do it. If you can't show up on time," then you could-

Peter Crone 20:00 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 20:00 ... also continue that narrative and go, "Oh, I got the opportunity to stress test this company and see how they handle some very basic simple things in life. This didn't go-

Peter Crone 20:10 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 20:10 ... the way I, I planned it to, and that's how they responded. I'm glad I know-

Peter Crone 20:15 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 20:15 ... now and I didn't go and sign up for that company." Do you know what I mean? There's, there's-

Peter Crone 20:18 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 20:18 ... infinite possibilities.

Peter Crone 20:20 Yeah. There's, there's a myriad of different ways that we can interpret it, but as I was saying, the, the fundamental subtext that I want people to understand is that regardless of what happens, your life's taken care of, and that's the subtext that allows you to sink into surrender with a really profound sense of trust. Now, it's not a knowing. You don't know what's going to happen. It's an energetic experience where, like I joked I think even again on our first podcast, like, I'm a trust fund baby. Not... You know, my parents both died when I was very young. I wasn't left one penny 'cause whatever money my dad had, which wasn't much, went to a, a stepmother. And yet I trust the universe. I... Like, when things in my personal life, my subjective wants and not wants don't unfold as I would like, I still trust that, okay, even though I wanted something and it didn't happen, the fact that it didn't manifest is in ways that I don't understand still for my benefit, right? That's the profound, deeper sense of, like, trust that things are unfolding in a way that little old me, I don't fully understand, yet I am still the beneficiary of. And that gives people a internal sense of calm and peace.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 21:36 I'm totally on board with that, but I suspect there'll be some people who push back against a thought like that. They think, "Well, what do you mean that, the, I just need to trust that everything's working out the, the way that it is? You know, I'm, I'm-

Peter Crone 21:50 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 21:50 ... struggling to make my ends... You know, I'm struggling to make ends meet. You know, I don't have the job of my dreams. I see everyone around me crushing it at life, and I'm kind of struggling. What do you mean everything's sort of panning out-

Peter Crone 22:01 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 22:01 ... the way it was meant to?" Uh, and I, I guess that sort of dovetails into something else w- which is coming out in this conversation, something I've heard you say before, that we are 100% responsible for our lives. But what would you say to those people who sort of push back a bit and go, "You, you know, it's all right for you, buddy, but I wasn't born into, I don't know, money, opportunity. I didn't go to a great school."

Peter Crone 22:27 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 22:27 Do you know what I mean? 'Cause I guess, is that something you hear a lot with your work? Or do you... Is that the pushback that, that... If, if you ever get any pushback, would you say that is one of those things?

Peter Crone 22:38 Um, I don't get a lot of it, but I mean, I totally understand your point and it's very valid that people feel that way. But equally, for those people who don't know my story, you know, I didn't even have parents. I wasn't left a penny. I wasn't born into money, you know? So-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 22:50 Sure

Peter Crone 22:51 ... y- it, it's not like it's a, an excuse, you know? Like, for sure, if you look at a trust fund baby and a who- whoever it is, like, literally, like, the Paris Hiltons and the what- whatever, people who've got stacks of cash, yeah, if they sit there and they espouse about, "Oh, don't worry," like, yeah, that comes across as a bit disingenuous, [laughs] you know? 'Cause it's like, well, duh, you know, you never had to fricking lift a finger. You know, I've done, I've done it all, you know, like, working in a waiter, like, hoping that I get 50, 50 pence tip or, you know. It's, like, the whole thing, you know? So, so it's a valid concern, first of all. I really always want to acknowledge people's reality, but it's nonetheless inaccurate. So we have to redefine what it is it means to be human and what everyone's after, right? So the person who's struggling, they don't have the job of their dreams, maybe they don't have money, they weren't left anything, what- whatever their validation is for their woe, they're under the impression that their happiness, uh, like we started this conversation, is dependent on their circumstance. But it still goes back to the same point, that you're a victim of circumstance. But the happiness, the true happiness, which, again, I shared on your, your podcast [laughs] is the absence of the pursuit of happiness or the absence of the search for happiness, right? So it's not dependent on my circumstances. My joy and my inner peace is not because of something. It's my own semblance of centeredness and self-acceptance regardless of circumstance. That, ironically, is the precursor to everything changing around me. So the person who's- Pushing back a little bit to this previous conversation that we were on, they're, they're just showing the resistance they have, the fight that is in them relative to their life circumstances. That itself, ironically, is the foundation of their suffering, right? So their argument for why they're not happy is the actual precursor to why they're not happy, [laughs] right? The... Do you know Byron Katie? She's, um... Yeah. So she's a lovely, you know... I, I, I'm not that familiar with her work, but I've heard some of her quotes and, and one that comes to mind that I really like, she says, you know, "When you fight life, you lose, but only 100% of the time." [laughs] Right? So if someone's in disagreement with anything, including me, I'm an expression of life in their view right now. They're listening to this podcast, they're listening to the conversation, and they're like, "Nah, this guy's full of shit," like, well, that... I'm just saying something. I'm... It's not like it's gospel. I'm just sharing my opinion. And hopefully, you know, as a man who cares with a big heart, who's sensitive, I'm just trying to change people's lives for the better. And if someone doesn't like that, well, okay, I, you know, that's fine. You can listen to somebody else. But your resistance to what I'm saying is your suffering. It's not 'cause I'm saying something. You know, there, there's a, there's a great line in the third Matrix, [smacks lips] uh, which I'm sure you're familiar with the trilogy, um, and theme of the day. It's a trilogy with you and me today.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 26:00 [laughs]

Peter Crone 26:00 But in the third one, um, the Zion, which is the, the headquarters for the, quote-unquote, "free souls," like Neo from the, you know, uh, Keanu Reeves character, where all the f- people who've been freed out of the matrix, right? Where they're in this sort of mental psychotic illusion where, again, like we're talking about, they think that their life is all about success and fame and, you know, the corner office and status and all of this. Um, they, they are being under attack from the machines, so everybody has to retreat to Zion, which is sort of at the center of the world or wherever it is. And for that reason, all the ships have to come back to defend their home. And when Morpheus, Laurence Fishburne's character, comes back, he meets with the head of defense, and there's this contentious relationship between them as part of Hollywood, but, you know, the head of defense basically lets Morpheus have it. He said, "I told everybody they've got to bring their ships back. We've got to defend Zion." And Morpheus has left his ship out in the matrix so he can communicate with the Oracle, who's basically the fortune teller, 'cause he wants to know the fate of the world and is Neo gonna save everyone? Is he the chosen one, right? So the head of defense says, "Damn it, Morpheus, not everyone believes what you believe." And Morpheus says, "My beliefs do not require them to." Now, that's a very powerful line, right? 'Cause what he's saying, like the head of defense talking about you leaving the ship there 'cause you wanna... you believe in the one and whatever. He's like, "Not everyone believes what you believe." But Morpheus is so grounded in his beliefs that it doesn't matter what other people believe. Do you see?

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 27:47 Yeah.

Peter Crone 27:47 And that to me is such, such a powerful stance for somebody to be in, where I'm not at the effect of other people's opinions. So I can listen to anybody tell anything, from Catholicism to Buddhism, if it's religion or it's politics. I listen from a place of they're just sharing their opinion, so I'm no longer at the mercy of something. And this is where people's egos are very fragile and where people get into fights in relationships 'cause somebody says blah, blah, blah, and their blah, blah, blah doesn't fit with the other person's blah, blah, blah belief, and now they fight. [laughs] Versus no, you j- okay, have at it. Believe whatever you want to believe, you know? If you think that you're gonna come back as some goddess or a queen or that you lived in past lives as, like, this knight in shining armor and... or you believe that la-da... Uh, uh, yeah, I mean, good luck to you. Have at it, you know? Let's see how it works. I... Who am I to tell you how to live your life? [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 28:43 I mean,

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 28:43 relationships are something that, you know, they, they, they, [laughs] they make the world go round, right? Relationships with other people, that's who we are.

Peter Crone 28:51 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 28:51 You said earlier in this conversation that the amount of importance you put on something-

Peter Crone 28:58 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 28:58 ... almost put... The, the more importance you put on it, the more vulnerable you become because the more kind of attached, I guess, you are to the outcome of however you're sort of showing up in that realm. So let's say in the relationship realm.

Peter Crone 29:12 Yes.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 29:13 You know, you really value your partner, and therefore everything in that interaction means so much more to you. But it means if you're not careful, you can also be very vulnerable to feeling really bad and getting really upset with things-

Peter Crone 29:26 Yes

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 29:26 ... because of how that goes down. And, and I, I wanted to talk about relationships today. You know, through the lens through which you look at the human experience-

Peter Crone 29:36 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 29:37 ... what are some of these common patterns that come up in relationships that end up causing so much conflict?

Peter Crone 29:48 Um, I mean, great question, and they're these very primal patterns where fundamentally as human beings, we want to be loved and accepted. That's really what it comes down to, and so when we're in a relationship with someone who we're under the assumption has chosen us, you know, if it's a wife or a partner or a husband or whatever, or even family, you know, there's this sort of unwritten rule that, well, you know, y- y- you love me. And then if they display any behaviors that are in conflict with that, then we feel threatened again, right? So we're putting a lot of the onus on people around us to provide the security and the reassurance and the sense of self-worth- For us. But that's, that is a very slippery slope. I literally helped two clients yesterday and today, this morning briefly, who are struggling with the fact that a relationship they're in has fallen apart and their partner is now already with somebody else. And it's really triggering in them their feeling that they're not loved. But as I explained to them, that was there before you even met that person. That was your karma because you had your relationship with your mom or your dad where you felt that you weren't the chosen one, you weren't as special as a, a sibling or, you know, your dad was a little bit absent, or your mom didn't quite give you enough attention. You know, every... It's such a big topic because every human being has got their version of trauma. It's just most people don't really look. It's just become baked into their personality. You know, personality meaning your personal reality is now an extension of what you went through as a child, the trials and tribulations, the hurts and the failures and the disappointments sort of get baked into who you think you are so that now when you're an adult and you're in a relationship, if there's anything that has any sort of semblance of what you went through as a child where you felt dismissed, you felt unwanted, you felt you did something wrong, you felt like you weren't valuable or special, wherever you feel your partner do the same, boom, straight comes up that hurt from your childhood. That's the power of relationship really as far as I'm concerned is to reveal those things within us that have yet to be reconciled. That's the beauty. Now, of course most people don't look at it that way, so they just fight and they throw spatulas and frying pans and, you know, talk to my lawyer and [laughs] you know, use the kids as bargaining tools or whatever it is. I mean, it's pretty ugly. But yes, relationships are beautiful and I'm all about companionship and love and having fun and intimacy and meeting people and traveling the world, but really as far as I'm concerned, relationships are the conduit for our own spiritual evolution to reconcile where we're still trapped based on our past traumas.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 32:43 And those relationships could be relationships with anyone, not just-

Peter Crone 32:48 Anyone

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 32:48 ... our partner.

Peter Crone 32:48 This is-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 32:49 Our friends.

Peter Crone 32:50 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 32:50 The person at the shop. The...

Peter Crone 32:53 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 32:53 Your boss. Your work colleague, I guess. And, and, and what I'm hearing and, and something I, I strongly believe is that in many ways the people around us can be our therapists if we look at them in that way. You know, I'm not saying it's the same as going to see a therapist, right? I understand-

Peter Crone 33:11 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:12 ... uh, that, you know, that, that there's a different skill set there. But in some ways you can look at it, "Look, I'm being presented on a daily basis, on a weekly basis-

Peter Crone 33:22 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:22 ... areas that I'm not okay with. And if I look at it-

Peter Crone 33:26 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:26 ... if I choose to sort of come into my power-

Peter Crone 33:29 Mm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:29 ... and not make myself a victim, I can actually start to work on some of these things-

Peter Crone 33:34 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:35 ... through the relationship." This way of thinking puts the individual in the driver's seat of their life. There's nothing worse than feeling that you are a victim to circumstance, that if the train came on time, I'd be happier. If my wife-

Peter Crone 33:50 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:50 ... behaved in a certain way, I'd be happier. If my mom didn't do that, I'd be happier. If-

Peter Crone 33:54 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:55 ... A, B, C, D-

Peter Crone 33:56 [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:56 ... you know, go to, go to Z and then-

Peter Crone 33:58 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 33:58 ... and then start again. It's-

Peter Crone 34:00 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 34:00 ... you're a prisoner, aren't you? It's in that story-

Peter Crone 34:03 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 34:03 ... that I choose to tell myself that I get my power and that I get my freedom, right?

Peter Crone 34:09 Yeah. When you realize, hang on a minute, I'm the one generating my own experience of life, like I'm literally creating how I feel. That is empowering. And I'm not a victim of circumstance. I don't need my, my mom, I don't need my mother-in-law, I don't need my boss, I don't need my spouse, I don't need my children to act in a certain way for me to be okay. That's the fundamental lie that humans are telling themselves, is that I can only be okay when everything is in accordance to my subjective view. Like, if you really break that down, it's completely nonsensical. First of all, it's completely audacious. It's like I didn't get the memo that Rangan's in charge of the universe and how everybody should be. Like, y- it's preposterous. Like, and if you are, then I didn't get the email that told me, and if, if that's the case, then let me know how I'm supposed to behave for you [laughs] . So it, it's just, it's comical to realize, wow. And again, there's compassion, right? Y- it, it's not like you, "Oh, you idiot, you've always been responsible for your life." It's like, "No, it's okay." Wake up and realize, "Oh. Yeah, why do I have to get so upset?" Because, you know, my mother-in-law left the milk on the different, like, you know, shelf in the fridge, that I don't like it there [laughs] . It's like, really? Is that, is that really upsetting me, or is it a deeper sense of feeling not respected or not seen which reminds me of when I was a child and I never got that sort of acknowledgement from my dad, and it's really the same energy that's just manifesting now as a 44 year old and through my mother-in-law not putting the milk in the right position. D- you know, but that's empowering to go, "Wow, that, that's so childish." 'Cause really when you break it down without judgment, it's always childish when people get upset. It's, it's like an adult tantrum that people have, you know? They sulk, you know, they just use different language. They'll curse. But really it's like you're having a tantrum.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:00 [laughs]

Peter Crone 36:00 You, you know, you're sulking. [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:05 Peter, I've been on a, um, I guess you would call it a self-growth journey for a number of years now. For me, I think it really started when my dad died, um-

Peter Crone 36:18 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:18 ... just over eight years ago now.

Peter Crone 36:20 Okay.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:21 And I feel that certainly my experience has been that it's multiple stages on that journey, um, that-

Peter Crone 36:28 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:28 ... it's an evolution. And I just feel these days, mate, so much happier, so much calmer.

Peter Crone 36:35 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:36 Um.

Peter Crone 36:36 Beautiful.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:37 I, I, I kind of just don't feel this tension that I think-

Peter Crone 36:42 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:42 ... has always driven me in the past. I- I'm just much more... I think I'm, I'm able to be in the present much more than I used to be.

Peter Crone 36:51 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 36:51 I'm very accepting of the way life is and, and not trying to wish it was another way. And, and occasionally if I do, I'll catch it now early. I'll be like, "Ah, okay, here we go. You're trying, you're trying to play the old record. I thought I'd got rid of that record," but it, it's kind of-

Peter Crone 37:06 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:06 ... this situation is me wanting to play that record. So I, yeah, I feel, you know, we've had three conversations, right? This the... I mean, I know we've been out and had dinner and hung out as well.

Peter Crone 37:18 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:18 But we've had three conversations on the podcast and-

Peter Crone 37:22 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:22 ... it can always be a risky thing to ask, but, um-

Peter Crone 37:25 [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:26 You know, I don't know. W- would you, having had three pretty deep and lengthy conversations with me, um-

Peter Crone 37:33 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:33 ... what is, what is your reading of me? You know, c- is, is it possible to make a reading of me from these conversations? You know, I don't want to put you on your spot or if you don't feel you've got enough information, but, yeah-

Peter Crone 37:46 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 37:46 ... I'm intrigued as to what you might say about some of my traits.

Peter Crone 37:51 Um, yeah, for sure. I'm always happy to share. I mean, it's typically when somebody's sharing something they're dealing with, so you're sort of coming at it from a different angle, which is where you're saying that you're actually not dealing with too much, right? Like, I, when I'm helping people, it's invariably 'cause they're struggling with something, right? But again, I've known you for a while, and you gave me a few tells, more so in our first podcast. If you remember, you talking about some of your friends and I sort of broke down some of your language, and it was just your way of speaking that reinforced what I'd want to point out for you today, which is the only thing I feel in you is that you're a little bit overly self-conscious. Now, what that means is when someone's self-conscious, they're aware of themselves. Now, the only reason somebody would have to do that is that they have some underlying, it can be subtle, it can be really severe, but there's mild concern about the way that they are or aren't going to be accepted by their environment. So the fact that I know, you know, with your heritage, you know, your ethnicity perhaps, you know, I've worked with a lot of people who were perhaps of a different religion or a different skin tone, and they were in an environment, a community, a school, you know, perhaps like one of my friends from South America, he went to an all-white Jewish school, and so he was, quote-unquote, "He stood out like a sore thumb," and for that reason he was bullied, and, and it made him feel very conscious of his heritage. So the energy of self-consciousness is where you, in your programming, again, just from my read, will have had moments where you were very aware of yourself and how others perceived you, right? And potentially usually in a position where you might have been made fun of or bullied or stood out or, you know, the opposite, not, not belonged, didn't fit in. And so when that's part of somebody's history, the brain tends to become a little bit too active and too sensitive, what I call hypervigilant. So you're a smart guy, you're well-educated, you're intelligent, but I feel you're using those resources a little bit too much in regards to making sure that, you know, you're not rocking the boat. Am I okay here? Did I say anything to offend anybody? Do you like me? Like, that realm which when you tap into it, and maybe even as I'm saying it, you know, you'll, you'll say whether it resonates or not, you know, it, it can be draining to the system. Because what you're actually saying is, "I don't accept me. I'm sort of hoping you do so that I can feel relaxed." But that's not a powerful place to be. That's still the mild victim of circumstance where you're basically overly self-aware, and so there's, you're attending to your safety in an environment. It might not feel like safety. You know you're not gonna be stabbed or anything, but that's how it occurs at the primal level is like, ooh, you know, as human beings we want to belong, and wherever in your history you've had a sense of perhaps not belonging, now you become hypersensitive to that. So now as an adult, even though consciously you know it doesn't make sense, viscerally at a deep subconscious level, you're like, "Oh, you know, I, I hope I'm not saying anything to offend anyone. I hope I get accepted in this group. I hope they like me." And that energy is a disservice to you and to others because it makes a little bit of a block. There's a little bit of a barrier energetically between you and others 'cause you're actually in a relationship with your own concern about what others think about you versus just being with others whether they like you or not. So that's, that's, that's sort of-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 41:49 Well f-

Peter Crone 41:49 ... what I think.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 41:50 Yeah. Well, first of all, I appreciate you going there, and appreciate you, um-

Peter Crone 41:54 [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 41:54 ... sharing your thoughts on that. You know, how to respond to that? I think there's a lot of truth to that. I can... You know, as you were saying it, I definitely felt it. Uh, I-

Peter Crone 42:06 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 42:06 ... I definitely with my rational brain know that that has been a pattern. Uh, my rational brain-

Peter Crone 42:13 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 42:13 ... feels that it's a lot better than it used to be. Like-

Peter Crone 42:16 For sure

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 42:17 ... significantly better. Like, if it was 100% before-

Peter Crone 42:21 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 42:21 ... in my rational brain, again, I'm, I'm using the word rational brain very carefully because I think we can overthink things sometimes. I feel-

Peter Crone 42:30 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 42:30 ... I, I, I overthink things. I certainly have that tendency. I kind of feel it's about 10% now if it was 100%, but- It's very hard-

Peter Crone 42:37 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 42:37 ... for us to see things ourselves, right? Sometimes it takes somebody else to actually shine a light on an area. And there's something about what you said, yeah, I felt it in my body, right? So that's a pretty good sign-

Peter Crone 42:50 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 42:50 ... that, hey, there's something there. And-

Peter Crone 42:53 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 42:53 ... I wanna thank you for that because it's in, it's a gift, isn't it? It's a gift to me-

Peter Crone 42:58 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 42:58 ... to say, well, look, maybe, maybe sort of sit with that thought later. You know, really feel into that.

Peter Crone 43:05 Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 43:05 Because I guess I thought I, I'm sort of close to pretty much being over that. But you're feeling-

Peter Crone 43:09 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 43:09 ... that it's, it's still there, and I guess, as you say it, I think I do too, mate, if I'm honest.

Peter Crone 43:16 Yeah. Which I really appreciate, you know, like, because the, the irony of whatever our constraint is, it's the last thing we want to reveal. So here you are, we're on a podcast, hopefully hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of people one day will get to see this. And so you asked me to contribute, but you're putting yourself in the hot seat a little bit. So first of all, I acknowledge your vulnerability, but secondly, I really acknowledge the fact that you can acknowledge what I said, you know? Because it's like, yeah, yeah, that really kind of hit home. Like, I'm a bit self-conscious, like I'm worried what people think about me. First of all, if you were to say that, there's not one person on the planet who couldn't resonate with that. They're like, "Well, yeah, of course he does. He's human. I, I have that." [laughs] You know? It's like everyone can go, "Oh, yes, I feel the same," and, and it's okay. That's the beautiful thing is that you're a sensitive, caring guy. It's actually kind of a, it's a form of acknowledgement really is that you're that concerned about what people think about you. That's, that's a nice trait. I'm just inviting you to recognize you don't have to be. Just know you're a good guy. Like, 'cause I was... That, that really, really consumed me and defined me for many years until I realized, you know what? Not everyone's gonna love me. It's okay. I know I'm a good guy. I'm doing the best I can. I'm not perfect. My intentions are pure. I wanna help people. And if they've got some, you know, issue with me because I remind them of someone, and maybe a guy who, you know, looked like their wife's ex-boyfriend, and that's a trigger, I, I, I don't freaking know why they're upset. You know what I mean? [laughs] But I'm gonna let them be me and just know that I'm doing the best I can, and I think there's just a bit of wiggle room there for you, or maybe a lot of wiggle room for you to go, "You know what? Rangan, he's a good guy. You know? He's like, he's doing podcasts. He has amazing guests who... He gives information to people. He's got his radio show. He's got a beautiful family." Like, if you could be more self-accepting, which really, what this is about, like I said earlier, the journey is about releasing our own fears. It's not about getting more fame or getting more people to like you. It's like, no, if you have a deep-seeded fear that you're self-conscious of, like, oh, you know... And you'll probably remember after this podcast certain times in your childhood, I would invite you to look, where you did feel self-conscious 'cause mom said something, Dad said something, you were in trouble, you were picked on at school. Whatever triggered you being, you know, I wanna be a good boy. Like, 'cause I can imagine you being a very good boy. Like, but you don't need to play that role anymore. You know? You're a good guy. You've established yourself, and it just, it allows your system just to relax a little bit more, let everybody have their opinion. That's okay. Of course, it, it's nicer if people like us. I get it. But, you know, I don't know what's going on in their day that they're in a shitty mood. It, it just will give you more freedom, mate. So, so it's awesome that you can see it. I'm glad you felt it in your body. That tells me immediately that we're spot on. And now you get to have a bit more compassion for that part of you and go, it's okay. I can see that you developed the habit over time because of your childhood of wanting to make sure you didn't rock the boat, you didn't upset people, and that people fundamentally loved you. That's very human. No one's gonna begrudge you that pattern. I just don't want you to live from it anymore because you can love that part of you just like you would love your child if they felt they were not picked or they weren't liked. It's, it's kind of adorable, right? Because it's a child mentality.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 46:42 Yeah.

Peter Crone 46:42 You just don't have to live from it as a grown man. That's all.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 46:45 Yeah. I mean, as you sort of speak to that, I've done a form of therapy called IFS, internal family systems, which I found incredibly helpful-

Peter Crone 46:55 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 46:55 ... to process various incidents in my childhood. But as you were speaking there, you know, you mentioned ethnicity. You know, I, I know my brother and I were two of the only sort of non-white kids at our school growing up. You know, grew up-

Peter Crone 47:08 Oh, yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 47:08 ... in a sort of middle class, sort of white suburban area in Cheshire. Um-

Peter Crone 47:13 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 47:14 ... and I think we were the one, or there was only two Indian families in town, and we were one of them. So, you know, there is that self-consciousness there. But-

Peter Crone 47:23 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 47:23 ... you know, there's something you said, Peter, that it's an, it's, it's a nice... You didn't say nice quality. It's an endearing quality. It's, uh... But actually, I think it depends where the energy comes from. So I mentioned my dad, um, died just over eight years ago.

Peter Crone 47:39 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 47:39 The reason I live in the northwest of England, um, where I grew up, is because I moved back from Edinburgh where I was at med school and working to help my mum and my brother look after Dad 'cause he was... He had to, uh, retire. He had, uh, with ill health, he had lupus. He was on dialysis for 15 years and, you know, it was a very, very intense and stressful time. Now-

Peter Crone 48:03 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 48:04 ... I think back to that time and, and I, I, I think, how did I do what I did? And what I mean by that is I would kill myself with caring. Now, I would, um-

Peter Crone 48:18 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 48:18 ... I was there seven days a week. I was, uh, working as a doctor. I'd get up at 5:00. I've shared this before, but I would get up really early. I'd go and shower my dad, get him ready. I'd go to work. I'd sometimes go at lunchtime if he was in hospital.

Peter Crone 48:32 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 48:32 I'd, you know, whatever it needed for 15 years, seven days a week, 365 days, uh, a year, I would do, right? Uh-

Peter Crone 48:40 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 48:40 ... it didn't matter what was going on in my life. That was my top priority. And I remember in the days after Dad died, some of my dad's friends would say to me- You know, Rangan, we're just so impressed with you. We've never seen anyone do, um, or look after someone like that before, and that made me feel good on, on a level. I thought, yeah, yeah, y- because I had built up, mate, this identity that that's-

Peter Crone 49:02 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 49:02 ... who Rangan Chatterjee is. He looks after people. He cares for people.

Peter Crone 49:06 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 49:06 And what's really interesting is, and my mum, unfortunately, her health has been deteriorating, uh, recently. Her mobility's gone down. You know, my brother and I are around most days. I'm there helping her with breakfast most mornings. Um, and there's a couple of things there is I, I can feel the energy behind me caring for Mum, very different-

Peter Crone 49:28 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 49:28 ... to with Dad. Like, it's no longer my identity. I, I love my mum. I'll do everything that I can to help her.

Peter Crone 49:36 Yes.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 49:36 But I'm not gonna kill myself at the same time. I can see, I can put boundaries-

Peter Crone 49:40 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 49:40 ... up in a way that I was incapable of doing eight or nine years ago, and I... It's-

Peter Crone 49:46 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 49:46 ... for me, I- I'm now starting to think about, actually, I can now see a time when Mum won't be around, which is something I've sort of come to terms with in the last few months.

Peter Crone 49:55 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 49:55 And I'm actually, a lot of the time I'm okay with it. That, that-

Peter Crone 49:58 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 49:58 ... just to be clear, um, doesn't mean I don't love my mum. Doesn't mean-

Peter Crone 50:01 No, I get it

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 50:02 ... that she's... But, but it, that energy is different now, and it feels good. It feels like it doesn't-

Peter Crone 50:07 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 50:07 ... take every sinew, every sort of ounce of energy away from me. I feel like I've still got energy for me and my family, but I can-

Peter Crone 50:15 Yes

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 50:15 ... also care for my mum. Does that make sense?

Peter Crone 50:18 100%. It's why the FAA has the ruling that when you get on any airplane, and many people have heard this before, um, the s- the, the attendant or whatever says the oxygen masks come down, you put yours on first, even before your own child. Now, that's a beautiful metaphor for the fact that if you don't take care of you, you're of no use to anyone anyway [laughs] , right? So I would assert that with your dad you were still trapped in the idea that it was incumbent upon you, was like, it occurred to you as a have to, I must, I need to.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 50:52 Oh, yeah.

Peter Crone 50:53 Yes, of course you care. Uh, yeah, but now with your mum, it's a choice. It doesn't, doesn't mitigate or doesn't in any way minimize the amount of love that you have for her, but she's on her own karma. We become less attached to form.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 51:07 Yeah.

Peter Crone 51:07 My mum died when I was 7 of cancer. My dad went to work when I was 17, never came back, right? He died on the, the, the ferry in Zeebrugge. And for sure it impacted my life, but it really taught me the power of being able to let go of form, right? Form, anything in the manifest world. And form comes and goes all the time. Even in the course of this conversation, we both literally lost millions of cells. Anyone listening, they've lost millions of cells. They're dying all the time, and we're not, like, holding on for dear life, you know? But when it comes to these archetypes, especially of Mum or Dad or a partner or a child, like, we become so attached, and that's human. But it, again, leaves us very vulnerable versus, you know, where we combine with the essence of something. I feel so grateful that I had a father, even only he was there for 17 years because the essence of our connection was so beautiful even though the form, the time we physically had together, was quite short, right? So I, I invite people to really look at the quality of your life and your relationships and the connections versus the quantity or the attachment to the, the external trappings, the form of something. So I love the fact that you can even see in your own behavioral adaptation that before, the little boy, it sort of, it's how it defined you. It's no surprise you're a doctor, right? Like, there's this part of you that has been programmed somewhat through adaptation to be the care provider, like the wounded healer, right? Like, sort of that's where you find your value.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 52:40 It's, it's these, these identities we construct around ourselves that, that, that we live within, that, you know, I, my, the identity I had was that I'm a carer, you know? Doesn't matter night or day, seven days a week, I am there. Nothing gets past me.

Peter Crone 52:55 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 52:55 I'm there, you know? And-

Peter Crone 52:56 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 52:57 ... I'm gonna see that, and the world around me are gonna see that.

Peter Crone 53:00 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 53:00 And when you let go of that label and you stop living within those constraints, it is freeing. And mate, I've, I've gone through a process of the, the last few years of just getting rid of really feeling into what are these labels, and I no longer... I don't define myself as a doctor. I no longer even define myself as a father. It's, I, I'm proud to be a father. It's a role that I take very seriously.

Peter Crone 53:25 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 53:26 But I think the problem is when you, when you define yourselves by, um, these kind of labels, again, you're putting yourself in a box. Part of you then-

Peter Crone 53:36 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 53:37 ... starts to live in accordance with what you think society thinks-

Peter Crone 53:40 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 53:40 ... that label should be, which is problematic in itself.

Peter Crone 53:43 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 53:43 But then what happens-

Peter Crone 53:44 Of course

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 53:44 ... what happens if you lose that label? As you say, what happens if I got fired from my job? What happens if, uh-

Peter Crone 53:49 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 53:49 ... I got ill and I couldn't work? What happens as a parent a- when your kids leave-

Peter Crone 53:53 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 53:54 ... the house when they're 18, right? If that's your whole identity, like-

Peter Crone 53:59 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 53:59 ... it becomes really problematic. So I wonder if you could-

Peter Crone 54:03 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 54:03 ... speak a little bit to identity and how problematic it can be if we select [laughs] the wrong identity or actually choose any identity really. Um-

Peter Crone 54:13 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 54:13 ... but I also wanna make sure we touch on, you know, we mentioned the body. You mentioned-

Peter Crone 54:19 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 54:19 ... emotions, uh, stress in the body, and disease. I think it's something that doesn't get spoken about enough. It's not something that we as doctors really get any training in at all. This is in the sort of Western medical model.

Peter Crone 54:32 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 54:32 I know you've trained in Ayurvedic medicine, so I wonder if you could speak to some of c- some of those issues, please.

Peter Crone 54:39 Yeah, for sure. I mean, identity, you know, we could call it persona, ego. They're all sort of interchangeable. So it's really, it's where we, you know, we become collapsed with the idea of who, who we are. Like- You know, it's a sensitive subject, but whatever. I, I don't mind talking about stuff. So [laughs] I'm here to break molds, right? So if someone says, "I'm Christian," you know, and there's millions of Christians around the world, to me, that's a completely inaccurate statement. It's not bad, it's not wrong, it's just inaccurate. No one on the planet is Christian. Somebody may subscribe to the tenets of Christianity, but who they are as a divine being, and that baby that they were at one point didn't even know its own name or its nationality. It certainly wasn't associated with any particular religion. Th- this is an addendum. This is something that got added after the fact. So if you look at even just religion and how it's been, you know, arguably one of the biggest, you know, causes of bloodshed around the world, it's only 'cause somebody believes they're something and then somebody believes they're something, and there's this disagreement, and then, "Well, let's fight." So listen, I pull from tenets of all sorts of religion. I think, you know, the... I talk about the consciousness of Christ and unconditional love. I talk about the freedom of Buddha and that Buddha is within. You know, I can reference a lot of stuff from Hinduism with Krishna and Shivas and, you know, that you can pull from all of these things. But to your point about labels, as soon as we, we basically pigeonhole ourselves and say, "I am something," w- you know, it's like you nailed your foot to the floor. So identity becomes very... It, it, it's very delicate because people are very attached to their beliefs, but without knowing that their attachment to their beliefs is also what becomes the actual impediment to them usually creating the life they want. So to you, you know, what we were just talking about, if the belief is that who you are fundamentally doesn't, doesn't... You're not... You don't fit in and you're not loved because you're of a different ethnicity, you're at this school, you... It's only you and your brother and while then they're an Indian family that are really of the, the anomaly to the norm, then you're gonna be self-conscious. You have to be. So that would create an identity where now you're like, "Ooh, I don't fit in," which s- exacerbates the feeling of separation, which is really what creates all suffering. We don't recognize that we're part of the whole. We're all actually interconnected, right? That's a much more spiritual conversation. There is no actual separation. I mean, even in quantum physics, right, we've got entanglement theory, we've got the unified field. It points to the fact that everything is interconnected. So psychologically, when you get that, that's where I live from. It's like everybody loves me, and I love everybody. Why wouldn't I if we're all one? Versus in a relationship to myself relative to others, now I'm separate, then I gotta do whatever I have to as in a separate identity to feel that I have value, that I fit in, that I'm liked, that I... You know, as long as you're looking through the l- isolation point of view, the, the, the illusion of separation, you have no choice but to try and adapt and manipulate yourself depending on the environment. You might go to your friends and you feel like, "Oh, somewhat relaxed 'cause I'm accepted here." But then you go on a job interview, and now your value systems are being challenged as an identity 'cause you're like, "Are they gonna pick me? Are they gonna pick me? Am I gonna get the job?" And now you're self-conscious. And then you might go to a dinner party, and you don't know anyone, and you feel like, "Oh, you know, I don't have the same... I don't go, I don't go gray ho- um, I don't go hunting with these people. I don't know anything about hunting," or, "I don't play lacrosse. Like m- will they like me?" You know? So all of these systems get challenged because we think we're independent. We're... That's the identity. So it can be very deleterious to our psychological, our mental, and our physical health, to go to your second part of your question, which is where I talk about the term dis-ease a lot, you know, as the precursor to disease that manifests physiologically. When psychologically we're in a state of dis-ease, the absence of ease, then the endocrine system is gonna be dumping the cortisols, the norepinephrines, the adrenalines into our body, which if that's consistent over time, then our body can't rejuvenate itself. Things are going to become compromised, and that's where, you know, it might take a couple of decades, but you're gonna get sick. So identity, it, it's so ironic 'cause people fight for their [laughs] identity, but the identity itself becomes the obstacle to what they want, which is really union. You look at, look at relationships romantically. Here's the, here's the irony. You go on your first date, and you're really excited, male or female, and you're meeting male or female. Who cares what you're into? But you know, you're, you're going to do whatever you can to present your greatest ambassador, right? Like, so you know, you, you put on the shirt that you haven't worn ever or you even went shopping and got some new shoes, which are really uncomfortable, but they look good. You know, you've actually, you know, got nose shaved for the first time, whether you're male or female, wherever you're shaving [laughs] you know, for a couple of weeks. You've put on your best cologne, which is a terrible move. But anyway [laughs] you know? And, and so you've got this sense of like, "Ooh, I'm doing the best I can." And it goes well to the point that you have a second date and maybe, you know, if, if you gave 90 out of 100 of your best, on the second date you, you know, you've come down to about 80, 85. And then the third date, you know, you're starting to feel much more comfortable with people, and you're down to a 60% of your best. And you know, maybe a year from now you're married, and before you know it, you're like, you know, you're, you're your worst average every day. [laughs] And your partner's like, "What the hell happened to you?" You know? It's like, "That wasn't the person I met." Yeah, well, because you were just coming from fear. You know, that's your identity based in inadequacy, insecurity, and scarcity. You had compensation patterns, behavioral adaptations to try and present yourself so that you become the chosen one, that you're accepted by society. As soon as you feel accepted, then you go straight back into your inadequacies. The self-fulfilling prophecy of the fact that no one gives a shit. Who cares? What the fuck? I'm pal. And, and, and everything starts to become, you know, back to this like very mediocre average [laughs] . So identity has... It's got its plus sides 'cause you try a little bit, but it's also becomes the very precursor to all of the deleterious effects in our life, including the worst You know, like addictions and self-sabotage and suicides and things are very real that really affect people. It's all because of identity

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:01:10 Sorry to interrupt. If you're enjoying this conversation, there's loads more like it on my channel. Please do press subscribe and hit that bell. Now, back to the conversation

Peter Crone 1:01:20 So yeah, it's a big issue. I'm basically, my work is dissolving identities. As I tell people, I'm, I'm not here to help the person, I'm here to get rid of the person. [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:01:32 Is it possible to have an identity that's helpful? So you mentioned-

Peter Crone 1:01:37 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:01:37 ... religion. So sometimes, of course, people like the identity of a religion because it helps them abide by or follow a certain set of principles that-

Peter Crone 1:01:47 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:01:47 ... helps them, you know, have better relationships and feel calm. So-

Peter Crone 1:01:51 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:01:51 ... I guess, yeah, is there a bit of nuance there? I mean, you, your identity to, to many of us is the mind architect, right? So-

Peter Crone 1:01:58 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:01:58 ... is that identity... Could you, can you envisage a scenario in your life where actually having that identity is limiting? What if someone's got a problem with their body that you help with, uh, but you're the mind architect, you're not the body architect? Do you know what I mean? I, I'm-

Peter Crone 1:02:14 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:02:15 ... sort of, yeah, how, how would you think about that?

Peter Crone 1:02:18 Well, this seems to be a good platform to announce that I'm now the body architect. [laughs]

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:02:23 [laughs] The mind body architect. The human architect.

Peter Crone 1:02:26 Yes. I'm the life architect. No, no, it's a great point. And, and, you know, again, people don't know my inner workings, but for me it's very clear that I know I'm not the mind architect. I know I'm not Peter Crone. These are all things that are, they're sort of, you know, adorned on my identity. I know for myself, without sounding too poetic, that I'm just a space of pure love and possibility. That's how I identify myself. And then how that manifests, you know, my background was as a trainer and I'm an Ayurvedic practitioner so that I can pull from those skill sets. But for someone to say that they're a lawyer or they're a doctor, or they're an insurance agent, you know, or they're a professional athlete, all of these monikers that we have, they're not wrong, but they're inaccurate to the essence of who we are. So for me, you know, I feel very comfortable using labels without being attached to them. I, it doesn't... It's like, "Oh, I'm the mind architect." It's like, no, I couldn't care less. Call me whatever you want. Like, I don't, I, it doesn't really bother me. I'm much more interested in the essence of what people get from the energy of who I am and the words that I share that help them to tap into their equivalent form of freedom that I feel that I embody, which is why people find my work inspiring. You know, they might not know too much about me as a persona. They might not know my parents died. They don't know if I'm married, I have children. They probably couldn't care less. They're much more interested in like, "Wow, I feel better listening to this guy." So really what is that? Is it 'cause I'm a mind architect or 'cause I'm representing the expression of a form of energy that is appealing to them? You know, the, the expression namaste, the divine in me recognizes the divine in you, is the translation, right? So it's really, I'm speaking from a place that I assert is somebody's essence and it's appealing to the essence in them, whether you call that freedom or love or self-worth. So that identity that I use, yes, can people have an identity that's beneficial? Of course. But to what end? You know, you could argue that your identity of being a doctor 365 a year, 24/7 with my dad, like, you could argue that that identity of like, "I will not be stopped. I'm a care provider," you could say that's beneficial. You know, you probably helped your dad for, for a lot-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:04:36 Yeah

Peter Crone 1:04:36 ... you know? But my question is, to what expense? You know, in real estate they have that term carrying costs. You know, if a house is not being sold, it's got carrying costs, right? You have to keep the lights on, you keep it clean, you're paying your mortgage, whatever. The, and so an identity always has carrying costs, and so it's just the degree to what are those costs. Now, again, to the extremes of an identity that's founded in a feeling of inadequacy where I'm not loved, I'm not wanted, I'm a, I'm a failure because of their childhood, that led them to finding relief in substance and it became an addiction that is now draining their bank accounts. It's ruined their marriage. They don't see their children anymore. They're living on the street. That's a lot of cost to that identity, right?

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:05:19 Yeah.

Peter Crone 1:05:19 Conversely, somebody who feels that they're not good enough and they became a perfectionist, and they go to the gym six times a week 'cause they're very conscious of their appearance and they wanna make sure they have the perfect body, and they really work hard to make sure that their house looks perfect, you could say that that looks like it's a much better expression of someone's identity, but I would assert that person has still got a lot of carrying costs 'cause they're working so hard to really try and fundamentally get people to like them and accept them. So even on the surface, you know, the homeless person who's a drug addict, the person who has this picture perfect life, they're kind of ironically being driven internally by the same sense of energy and inadequacy. They just manifest it in different ways. So identity, to me, fundamentally does have to be destructed at some point, or at least seen for what it is, which is a facade and a mask, so that we can reveal what's beneath that, which is the essence of who we all are. And from that place, then I feel you actually live a life that would be, you know, s- sort of referenced or symbolic of somebody who's in harmony with everything. So that is beneficial to everyone. It's just you're no longer carrying any cost-

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:06:37 Yeah

Peter Crone 1:06:37 ... 'cause you're just in harmony with your true nature. And I'd like to think that that's where I live from, that there is the absence of friction, there is the absence of resistance, there is the absence of trying to impress people. You know, that to me is true freedom. I'm no longer trying to prove myself to anybody, and I don't have anything to hide. Does that mean I'm perfect? No, but I've found peace with that. Does it mean that everything in my history was immaculate? Not at all. Parents died. I dri- I drove my dad's car when I was 15. I knocked down the garden wall. Like, I've done my stupid things. I got drunk. I've do- you know, I've done all the things that humans do But I found peace with myself. And so then there's no longer this external identity effort of, like, hoping that, you know, I look good enough that you like me. That, to me, is exhausting, and why people do have these sort of self-medicated substances they rely on, which, as I said, can over time really, to your question, impact people's physical health. And, and to me, that's why I feel my work has helped so many people who have had sicknesses and diseases, some of which have been chronic, 'cause as soon as they let go of the internal mechanism that creates that dis-ease and they find peace, then their external physiology eventually is given the permission to actually heal itself and, and m- miracles literally do happen.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:08:00 Yeah. That, that term carrying cost is so, so apt. Um, and, you know, an example in my life that, that speaks to that is, you know, still talking about my, my dad. Um, I used to have debilitating chronic back pain for many years in my 20s. I had to give up sport, all kinds of things, take time off work, and-

Peter Crone 1:08:21 Mm-hmm

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:08:22 ... you know, I was looking for a physical solution. And after trying lots and lots of different things, I found this incredible guy called Gary Wards who, you know, looks at the whole body, uh, and, and just... He looks at everything, frankly, but I don't wanna do Gary a disservice. But he really helped me by s- by seeing how my right foot wasn't actually working, uh, as optimally as it could do, and he gave me a few exercises to get that really working. And instantaneously, I don't know-

Peter Crone 1:08:50 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:08:50 ... 70 to 80% of my back pain just went, to the point where I could get back-

Peter Crone 1:08:55 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:08:55 ... to doing all the things that I wanted to. But there was still the occasional tension that would be there. Um, but-

Peter Crone 1:09:01 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:09:01 ... but it wasn't a problem. I was able to do the things in life that I wanted to do. So as a human being, I just kept going on, and thought, "Oh, I'll just keep doing these exercises, and this is good compared to how things were."

Peter Crone 1:09:12 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:09:12 At my dad's funeral, mate, and this really speaks to what you were just saying and why I'm so passionate of the role that emotions play, disease a- a- and our health and our wellbeing and our whole body and our frame, I can remember so clearly that my dad had a cremation. After the service, I remember seeing the coffin going into the kind of, I don't know what it's called, like the oven. You could see-

Peter Crone 1:09:37 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:09:37 ... there was the heat in there, and I could see my-

Peter Crone 1:09:39 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:09:39 ... my, um, dad's body, uh, going in, and I remember, mate, I could feel, as that was going in, this tension in my right back, it just went. Like-

Peter Crone 1:09:53 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:09:53 ... I, I still remember it. It just, it s- it just vanished.

Peter Crone 1:09:57 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:09:57 And I totally got it. I was like, "Oh, my God, I get it." Like I'd been-

Peter Crone 1:10:01 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:10:01 ... carrying this tension, this responsibility of being there for the entire family, making sure everyone's all right, looking after the family, looking after my dad.

Peter Crone 1:10:11 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:10:11 And in that moment, where I thought, I really had that realization that actually Dad's not here anymore, Dad's body is about to be burnt into ashes.

Peter Crone 1:10:20 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:10:20 My body responded instantaneously.

Peter Crone 1:10:24 Mate, beautiful. Really beautiful. And no surprise it's your right side, 'cause that's the masculine, right? So the paternal, the father. But the release that you got, because it's like, and especially with the back, which represents, you know, when we say we have a spine, we're a stand for something. Like, it's where there's this feeling of commitment, and it's often associated with finances or security. Most of the security comes from the masculine, and so you were bearing the weight. When you bear weight, think about doing a squat with a lot of weight, you know, most people's backs get thrown out. So you were bearing the weight of the masculine role that was crumbling, and so you had too much stress. And once that was seen and accepted and reconciled, you were able to have the release. So to me, in my work, and this, again, like, I'm not a doctor, but boy, do I [laughs] change people's physiology and their diseases by addressing what's the internal, what is the root cause energetically? Energetically, you know, this is what I call frequency medicine. People who've had chronic issues for, like, decades and they don't know why, and they've tried everything, because of course no one wants to feel lousy, but until such time you address, like, the center ring of those ripples on a pond, you've got the fifth, sixth ring is the symptom and the issue, but until you change at the core, then your body can't actually release and do what it does naturally, which is allow the flow of vitality to be there effortlessly. Like, I just did a workshop on health, and I was talking about, like, our nature is vitality. That's our nature. But because we deviate away from it, then we create disease. And once you understand that, and then you look at, okay, well, what was the root cause of my dis-ease, why I break that word down, the absence of ease in my system, energetically, emotionally, and psychologically, that then manifests in my physiology as a sickness, that then the sick care system, which is the most barbaric system out there, no offense to you, but, you know, that is, like, trying to fix things externally and just sell people pills. You know, most doctors, obviously there's many that are good, but they're really, you know, they're drug pushers. They're not, like, trying to get people well, they're trying to manage symptoms, which has its time and place for sure, I get it. But if you don't address what's going on at the deepest energetic, emotional level, then at best you're just managing a sickness.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:12:43 Yeah. That was, you know, what, 2013, March, so we're, you know, almost eight and a half years. And as a, as a, as a human being, but as a, as a doctor in particular, I've always been fascinated with different fields. I, I, I was thinking about you before this conversation and thinking about your career and my career, and one thing I really resonated with is that you kind of, you've studied lots of different things, you know, at university, um, your master's degree, your sort of yoga, Pilates, Ayurveda. And, and, and I really think-

Peter Crone 1:13:18 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:13:18 ... that gives a real flavor, real sense of everything that's out there. So you can bring in what you need to for the individual in front of you. And I, I-

Peter Crone 1:13:27 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:13:27 ... kind of feel that's the approach I've always taken to medicine. I remember at med school I was Learning from PTs, and I was reading stuff-

Peter Crone 1:13:34 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:13:34 ... you know, on nutrition and then now psychology and emotions and health, and you've been talking about the sick care system. But the truth is our training as Western doctors is limited.

Peter Crone 1:13:46 Of course.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:13:46 The vast majority of our training is diagnose a symptom, these are your treatment options. 95% of those treatment options, uh, are pharmaceutical drugs. Therefore-

Peter Crone 1:13:58 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:13:58 ... that is the model. So when you go and see your doctor-

Peter Crone 1:14:00 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:14:00 ... unless they are open to learning more, studying more, expanding their view, you are gonna get a very limited response. And this is why I think many people, not everyone, and I know there are some great doctors out there who are much more open-minded and are trying all kinds of-

Peter Crone 1:14:17 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:14:17 ... different approaches, non-harmful approaches to help their patients get better.

Peter Crone 1:14:20 100%, mate. And then for sure I come with compassion. Like, uh, some of my friends, they're functional doctors or even regular GPs, and they're just beautiful people. And I really do wanna, you know, commend those who choose. It's not an easy path, right? You go through medical school five, seven years. You do your, you know, your, um, internships or whatever. You, you know, you- you... There's a lot of stuff that goes into, including the cost, especially here in the States, of going to become a doctor or a nurse, and I think it is w- always with the best of intentions. The issue is the system, right? Like, if we were to break it down in very simple terms, what do you learn as a doctor? You've gotta learn the structure, right? We call that anatomy, genetics. You know, you learn the function. We call that physiology or biology. Then you learn the pathology, like the diseases that you ha- you know, you're gonna face. And then what's the treatment? Pharmacology and then maybe intervention, which is surgery. So th- you know, again, without kind of pointing to the 300-pound gorilla in the room, which is Big Pharma, which wants to control everything, they're the ones giving the money to the universities. They're the one paying the lobbyists. You know, the system itself is just corrupt. I mean, it's just call it what it is. And there's good people trying to help but they... Like, I don't know how many hours in, like, the seven years of study, like two or three on nutrition. You know, in Ayurveda w- we know everything stems from the gut. That's our view is, like, [laughs] we have an expression, "With good digestion, medicine is unnecessary. With bad digestion, medicine doesn't work." So it's all around [laughs] digestion. You know, and for me, psychological digestion, to go back to the beginning of our conversation, if you can't process something that you're visually in front of, you're unable to digest it, that's like mot- emotional indigestion. You're- you're not able to handle it, and so that's where people get sick. Disease, physical disease, and we see that in the world right now. It's really an asinine system that we have and, and if I was in a car accident, to your point, there's some things that this Western system are phenomenal at.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:16:15 Agreed.

Peter Crone 1:16:15 You know, they would put me back together, save my life. Amazing. But I think of a species, if we're going to move forward, we have ... You know, we have to call the spade a spade, whatever expression you wanna use. Like, it is what it is. Y- emergency, triage, acute intervention, Western medicine, awesome. But as it relates to every day wellness and health, then we want the Chinese medicines, the Ayurveda, the functional doctors, the naturopaths, the osteopaths. There's- there's a whole world that allows people to tap into health and wellness. We can bring the best of everything is what I appeal to.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:16:50 First of all, agree about all the benefits of Western medicine. Yeah, we've- we've spoken a lot about my dad today. My dad got 15 years extra of life on a dialysis machine.

Peter Crone 1:16:59 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:16:59 I am so grateful. If a dialysis machine did not exist, Dad's-

Peter Crone 1:17:03 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:17:03 ... kidneys weren't working, that's him gone, right?

Peter Crone 1:17:05 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:17:06 That was an artificial-

Peter Crone 1:17:07 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:17:07 ... kind of kidney keeping him-

Peter Crone 1:17:08 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:17:08 ... alive, so he got to experience all kinds of things and meet my kids and all kinds of stuff. Do you know what I mean? So it's not-

Peter Crone 1:17:15 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:17:15 ... it's not about throwing it all out.

Peter Crone 1:17:17 No, not at all.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:17:17 It's about recognizing what it's good at and what it's not good at. You know, I'm-

Peter Crone 1:17:21 Anyway

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:17:21 ... I'm an optimist. I think things-

Peter Crone 1:17:23 Yes

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:17:24 ... are changing, um, with a, with a colleague-

Peter Crone 1:17:26 Yes

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:17:26 ... of mine, uh, Dr. Ayan Panja, we created something called Prescribing Lifestyle Medicine. This used to run in person.

Peter Crone 1:17:32 Beautiful.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:17:32 This course that the Royal College of GPs in London have fully accredited, and we've either trained over 1,000, maybe a couple of thousand healthcare professionals already, and it-

Peter Crone 1:17:41 Amazing

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:17:42 ... you know, 95% of them saying it's significantly influencing the way that they practice. We've now put it online literally I think a week or two ago. We're now, you know, taking it out there. So I, I kind of ... I'm an optimist, right? So I think-

Peter Crone 1:17:54 Yeah, no, of course

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:17:54 ... there are problems, but I, I don't wanna just keep talking about the problems. I wanna try and at least do something that contributes to-

Peter Crone 1:18:01 100%

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:18:01 ... a solution. Uh-

Peter Crone 1:18:02 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:18:02 ...

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:18:02 Peter, I wanna be respectful of your time, but there's two big topics we didn't get to. Um, just briefly, I just wanna ask you, if past hurt informs future fear-

Peter Crone 1:18:14 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:18:16 ... how do we deal with that? We can-- I know you're running a lot of online courses now for people who wanna access your work, which is fantastic. I know people who've got great benefit from that.

Peter Crone 1:18:25 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:18:25 What is your view on things like therapy as a way of dealing with past trauma? And then secondly, given that a lot of these patterns develop in our childhoods-

Peter Crone 1:18:36 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:18:36 ... for those of us that are parents-

Peter Crone 1:18:39 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:18:39 ... what can we do with our children to reduce the likelihood of them developing these patterns that they then have to try and undo in their 40s, 50s, and 60s?

Peter Crone 1:18:53 Great. Okay. Past hurt informs future fear is one of my quotes that I came up with recognizing the pattern of where the brain, when we've had any kind of failures, disappointments, or trauma, it's designed to predict and protect. So we are going to be looking out for the repetition of something that hurt us. It's just very simple physics, right? You, you go r- near a stove, you burn your hand, you're gonna be that much more sort of self-aware when you're next near a stove, 'cause like, "Oh, that hurt last time." So does therapy help? It depends on the [laughs] quality of the therapist. You know, I, I remember I did a, a retreat in Thailand many, many years ago, and a journalist from the Daily Telegraph came out to work with me. They, they sent a few journalists just to do some stories. And he had a really pertinent last paragraph. He said, "You know, when I got back from seeing Peter in Thailand, I went to see my therapist and I told him I didn't need him anymore. I realized that he'd helped me to identify my fears, but I realized that constantly just talking about my fears didn't make them go away." Right? So therapy, again, there's some amazing therapists out there, but there's also some awful ones who just are doing a job and they're prescribing, you know, diazepams, uh, benzodiazepines, and SSRIs, and whatever sedatives.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:20:10 Uh, uh, yeah, and I guess that, that word therapy is so broad, it can mean so many different things. One of the, one of the reasons I like IFS so much is because it doesn't require you to go in and talk about it. It sort of goes back to that childhood experience and sort of-

Peter Crone 1:20:22 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:20:22 ... reprograms it straight away in your mind. But-

Peter Crone 1:20:24 Got it

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:20:24 ... I could totally see how for many people your work would, um, w- in many, for many people would just mean, "Oh, I get it now. I can, I, I just-"

Peter Crone 1:20:34 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:20:34 ... got that realization. So I can understand why some people wouldn't need a therapist after that, or certainly-

Peter Crone 1:20:39 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:20:39 ... not that kind of therapist.

Peter Crone 1:20:41 Yeah, so that's why, again, one of my catchphrases, I say, "I don't solve problems, I dissolve them," right? So, you know, a therapist, a doctor, an expert, a spiritual teacher, like whoever you're going to see invariably with the best of intentions is trying to help you with your problems, but thereby they're sort of reinforcing the fact that you've got some. In my world, no one has a problem. No one has a problem in my world. Now, that to most people is like just jarring. It's like, "Wait, he doesn't know me. He doesn't know that I don't need to." I know that you have a resistance to a circumstance based on your conditioning and, like we said, your identity. If I can undo your identity, then all of a sudden you're free and you will actually attract and manifest an entirely different life that is absence of, quote, quote, "problems." So yes, there's many forms of therapy. You could say massage therapy, you could say acupuncture is a therapy, right? You could say there's different, there's different modalities. But I do believe whoever you are as a human being, you have to have an outlet. You have to have some access to conversational therapy of some kind, even if it's just a best friend, even if it's a lover. Somebody who you can trust, who you can just share what you're going through in an arena that you're held and you're accepted in a way without judgment itself is a form of healing therapy. I think one of my greatest skills with people, yes, I have all of these tools where I can discern between, you know, where someone's lying or they're not, or they're coming from fear. But one of my greatest assets I feel is that I just listen from a place of non-judgment, and I just accept people for who they are. And most people have never had that energy. And so it's very liberating. So that's the first question. Um,

Peter Crone 1:22:13 and then regarding parents, [laughs] you know, we get a lot of that, and I'll probably do a workshop on parenting soon. But in order to... [sighs] How can I do this without like getting down the rabbit hole? I think it's a great topic that warrants another conversation. But the best way any parent can inspire, influence, and impact their children in a, quote, quote, "positive way," that is in keeping with my work, which is freedom and love and self-worth, is to do the work yourself.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:22:46 Yeah.

Peter Crone 1:22:47 Because children more than anything mimic who you are versus listening to what you say. And so if you want to inspire your children to become, you know, human adults that you would be proud of, where they have powerful lives, then emulate, embody, and reflect, express the type of human being you would want them to be. If you're, if you're disciplining them and you're raising your voice and you're screaming and you're making them wrong, and you have arguments with your spouse, then that's what they're going to recognize as what a relationship looks like and what parenting looks like. So then they will, they invariably from generation to generation adopt those behavioral patterns of like, "Oh, well, I fight with my partner, but that's what I learned from my parents, so that's normal." But it doesn't feel good. It's just normalized.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:23:45 Yeah.

Peter Crone 1:23:45 And so I help parents, I help athletes, I help businessmen, I help everyone in between to find that sense of freedom so that you can be the living embodiment of what you would wish to pass on, not just to your children, but to your loved ones, your siblings, people you care about. And even for me, I like to be a living embodiment of my work. I don't want to be the guy who's full of BS, you know, who's like, "Oh, he sounds great on podcasts," but people who know me behind the scenes, like I'm some sort of jackass. You know? It's like, no, I'm, I want to live the way that I like preach. And I think so for a parent, whatever qualities you would love your children to embody, then, you know, express those so that they can mimic you, because that's what children learn more than anything. And we're all doing the best we can. Like my quote, I say, "We're masterpieces, but we're all works in progress." So a lot of compassion. You know, I, I, I'm, I'm a parent to millions. I don't have my own children, [laughs] so, you know, I can't speak entirely to the, you know, the, the trials and tribulations of being a parent. And children will test your nerve. I get it. And if you get upset and pissed off at times, it's okay. But try and rectify yourself as quickly as you can. Understand children are... They're children. They're supposed to draw all over the walls. They're supposed to break shit. [laughs] You know? That's what they do.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:25:05 Yeah.

Peter Crone 1:25:05 And the more you can have love and acceptance of them, stop making them wrong. That's, that's one of the most I find over time detrimental things that parents do to children, is they make them wrong and bad. You know? And children don't know. They're three, they're five, they're eight. They're doing the best they can.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:25:22 Yeah.

Peter Crone 1:25:22 So for a parent to make a human being, a child wrong or bad, it, it leaves such an impression versus help them understand why what they did perhaps isn't ideal or why it did upset you, but educate them versus disciplining them or judging them.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:25:41 I love that, Peter. I think it's, uh, a wonderful place to close off our third conversation.

Peter Crone 1:25:47 Yeah.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:25:47 For people, mate, who want to follow you, sort of do courses, uh, you know, how can they find you? Where's the best place? And also, when's the book coming out?

Peter Crone 1:25:56 [laughs] Uh, best place is, uh, Instagram, petercroneofficial, and my website petercrone.com, where they could find workshops and courses. Um, and the book is coming along. I really don't know... You've done this more than me, so the publishing time, you know, dependent. Uh, I'd like to... I'm gonna... My intention is to finish the book by around November, December of this year. So then I don't know if that puts us around spring of next year. Um, I just keep getting people who wanna work with me, which is very flattering, but [laughs] it pulls away from my, uh, writing time.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:26:35 Yeah, it pulls you away from writing, for sure. You kind of almost gotta shut off for a little bit and-

Peter Crone 1:26:40 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:26:40 ... just get in the zone. But, uh, good luck with that, mate. And Peter-

Peter Crone 1:26:43 Thank you

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:26:44 ... thank you for making time. Your work is helping so many people around the world. Uh, I value you for what you do for humanity. I value you as a friend, and I hope-

Peter Crone 1:26:54 Yeah

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:26:54 ... we get to get together soon in person.

Peter Crone 1:26:57 Mate, thank you so much for having me on and sharing me with your audience, and I really, as I said at the sort of middle part, I hope people realize I'm, I'm doing this 'cause I care, and I really wanna make a difference. And so far the feedback I've gotten, uh, is very humbling. And so it's only through people like yourself and your platforms and your audiences that I get to reach people, so I'm very grateful. So thank you.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjee 1:27:16 [upbeat music] If that conversation resonated with you, I think you are really going to get a lot out of the very first one I had with the incredible Dr. Gabor Maté. It's right there. Just give it a click and let me know what you think.

Speaker 1:27:27 Once you're asking not why the addiction but why the pain, now you have to forget that it's a choice 'cause nobody chooses to be in pain. And you also have to forget the medical idea that it's an inherited brain disease