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Dr Rangan ChatterjeeDr Rangan Chatterjee

Stay Young Forever: 103-Year-Old Shares The Life Lessons Everyone Learns Too Late | Gladys McGarey

To get 1 year's FREE VITAMIN D and 5 FREE TRAVEL PACKS visit Aged 102 (and a half!) years, today’s guest is the oldest person I’ve welcomed onto the show.

Dr. Rangan ChatterjeehostDr. Gladys McGareyguest
Oct 18, 20231h 18mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 2:12

    Staying Sharp at 102: Curiosity and Mission

    1. RC

      It's a huge honor for me to talk to you, and I have to say at the start that at 102 years of age, you are officially the oldest guest I have ever had on my show.

    2. GM

      That's wonderful. Yeah, I'm in awe of it, a- actually. [laughs] I'm so amazed that I'm still alive a- and have this work to do. You know, to me, this is, this is such an honor and, uh, wow.

    3. RC

      Well, it's very inspiring. It's inspiring to me that you started writing books in your 90s, and that at the age of 102 you're doing a semi-world book tour from your house. I'm sure there's something about your attitude to life that is behind, or at least a contributing factor as to how you appear to be so well at the age of 102. Of course, that's not the norm in society anymore. Do you think there's anything specific that you do that helps contribute to the fact that you seem to have a very sharp mind?

    4. GM

      Well, I'm always looking for something new. I always have been. I always will be. And I'm telling you, my eyesight is very bad, so I can't read. I have audiobooks, but there's nothing wrong with my insight. If my eye, eyes are dim, that does not affect my insight except making me more able to get deeper inside my own being and reach out to other people. I mean, it's, it's an amazing phenomena that if, as, as long as we're alive and we have something to live for and something to reach for that is helpful to ourselves and other people, I've got a mission. You know, I've got work to do. I've always had work to do. Uh, it's not always been appreciated, but that's all right too. [laughs] You work harder and you keep on.

    5. RC

      Th-

  2. 2:12 – 9:01

    Health Beyond Supplements: A Shift in Perspective

    1. RC

      there's so much that I wanna talk to you about. I, I've gotta say that reading your, your new book, The Well-Lived Life, has been incredibly insightful, but also I would say gratifying to me. You know, I haven't been practicing medicine for as long as you have. For me, you know, I started practicing I think in 2001, so just over two decades. But a lot of the things I've learnt and changed my mind upon-

    2. GM

      Uh-huh

    3. RC

      ... during my career so far are things that you've beautifully written about in your book, which is very comforting for me. You know, in my mid-40s, it's very comforting to know that, uh, at 102 you're writing about what I consider these real truths about who we are as humans, and that actually health is not just physical, it's mental, it's spiritual, it's emotional. It, it's wonderful to read that. I wonder if I could just read something from your introduction to you to get your thoughts on it. You write on page one-

    4. GM

      Yes

    5. RC

      ... "After nearly eight decades in medicine," yes, eight decades, "I've treated many patients who were so bent on finding the perfect diet that they made themselves sick. Others who were so afraid of dying that they nearly gave up living, and almost all of them hoping I might tell them what to put into their smoothies so they could live forever, or at least an extra few years. Unfortunately, even after more than 100 years on this planet, I have still yet to discover a secret ingredient that has been proven to ensure a long and healthy life. But I can help you discover the secrets of true health and happiness, but they have nothing to do with vitamins or supplements. Instead, they're based on a simple shift in perspective." Gladys, I love that. It speaks to me so, so much.

    6. GM

      I'm so glad. I'm so glad. You know, a- all that I've done wouldn't amount to a hill of beans if you didn't pick it up and run with it. We're all so interdependent, you know? And it's, and there's so much joy in that. You know, you get it. These concepts are becoming clearer and clearer to me as I get older, but the beauty of it is that y- you young ones [laughs] are, are getting it too, you know? You're not in the dark places that I was when I started in medicine. You know, it was World War II. The, I, I, I started medical school in September of '41, and the war started in December. And so my whole training had to do with killing and getting rid of. So, you know, now you come along and you can pick up this because the world has evolved since that time.

    7. RC

      Yeah.

    8. GM

      It really has. I think we humans are reaching for our true humanity, and we're, we, we are, we're messed up and doing all kinds of stuff, but basically, I believe the human race is reaching for its true humanity.

    9. RC

      See, the funny thing is, Gladys, I hear you speak, and it's very humbling. I'll tell you why. There's many reasons for that. But I have felt since I qualified back in 2001 from Edinburgh Medical School that there was something missing in medicine, that the heart ... was missing in medicine, that we've become too reductionist, simply looking at symptoms to diagnose and then treat with pharmaceuticals, right? So I have felt that the heart and spirit has been missing from medicine for much of my career, but you're saying you were feeling that same thing 50, 60, 70 years ago, right? So have things changed? But have they really changed? Because you were feeling it decades ago, I'm still feeling it today. Yes, we're not living through a world war like you were in your training, but I kind of feel that we've got so reductionist and protocol-driven in the way we treat people. So let's talk about, your book is on the secrets for health and happiness at every age, right? The longevity movement is booming at the moment. There's a whole, a barrage of experts who've written books on longevity. Now, a lot of them are actually in their 40s or 50s, so y- you're, you're someone who has gone past 100 who's writing a book on longevity. But I feel a lot of those books, not all of them, but a lot of them, are missing the big picture. They're looking at what is your blood sugar level, you know? Let- let's optimize that, you know? How much exercise are you doing? Now, of course these things are important, but health, wellbeing, longevity, I believe and I have to believe that there's something bigger than just reducing it down to these kind of blood metrics.

    10. GM

      And I agree with you 100%. We have to live for something. You know, we're not just to get rid of... See, the base of, of premise in w- It's still there in the, in conventional medicine, is to get rid of disease and get rid of pain. Well, I don't see it that way. I see diseases as our teachers, and pain as our teachers. Y- you know, p- pain, our bodies are, are where our lessons come from. We have lessons to learn all the time if we're just looking for them. There's just so much to talk about. But, um, I, [laughs] I was walking down the ha- ho- hospital hall one time, and it, it's a beautiful hospital, and I'm walking down the hall and I'm thinking, "You know, this is really beautiful architecture." And then I stopped and I said, "Yes, but it's a temple to the goddess disease."

    11. RC

      Yeah.

  3. 9:01 – 11:53

    Disease as Teacher and the Longevity Obsession

    1. RC

      I'm interested as to, you know, what do you think about the current focus, stroke obsession with anti-aging and longevity?

    2. GM

      Well, you know, uh, I'm not paying much attention to that because, um, first of all, I'm not interested in it. [laughs] And I'm interested in what I can do today. I'm interested in what the moment brings to me. I'm not... I h- do have a 10-year plan, but my immediate interest is what, what's happening right now with you, and what I can do, and you and I can talk about, and make a change for he- and help somebody else do it, do f- uh, find way that it will work for them. You see, we're trying to get a, a blanket that we put over everything and say, "Well, if this is what you do, it'll fix everything." It won't. You have to find what works for you. My oldest son is a retired orthopedic surgeon, and when he came through Phoenix, he was going down to Del Rio, Texas, to start his practice, and he said, "Mom, I'm real scared." He said, "I have all this training, and it's... I'm going to go out into the world. I'm gonna have people's lives in my hands. I don't know if I can handle that." And I said, "Well, Carl, if you, if that's what you feel and that's what you think you're going to be doing, you have a right to be scared. But if you can understand that your job is to do the job you've learned to do, which is amazing," orthopedic surgery is awesome. Those of us who need that kind of work done, we need good orthopods doing it. "But as you've done your job, you then turn the healing process over to the physician within the patient, who then becomes your colleague."

    3. RC

      Mm.

    4. GM

      "That's the person that you now are going to be working with, and it's a, it's a back and forth, a give and take. The patient sometime won't do what you're expecting them to, and sometimes they will. But the h- healing process is the patient's job. It's the patient. It's the physician within that patient." And that's, that's everybody. You and me, and, and our patients, too.

  4. 11:53 – 16:37

    Partnership in Medicine and Children's Sense of Purpose

    1. RC

      Yeah. It, it really resonates that I've always felt and, and I've said many times on this podcast before that I've never really told a patient what to do. I d- I, I never felt it was my job to tell them what to do.

    2. GM

      Good for you

    3. RC

      Who am I to tell another human being what they should do with their life? But it's through having conversations with the patients, helping them understand themselves better through that interaction, that as you say, they become the doctor, they become their own healer.

    4. GM

      Right.

    5. RC

      And I, I, I'd like to think that's what this podcast does for people, or one of the things it does is, without talking down to people, without judging them and telling them what they're doing wrong, it's through stories and the exchange of ideas that perhaps the listener will pick up on one of them and see their life and go, "Hmm, I wonder if that applies to me. You know, I wonder, hmm, I wonder what would happen if I change that. Would I feel better?" And I honestly feel that's the approach, like this, you know, you mi- you very much lived through and practiced through this kind of what's called a paternalistic relationship that we often have had as doctors with our patients, and I appreciate I'm saying that to someone who's a pioneering woman and probably faced a lot of sexism trying to do what you did in medicine. But I, I'd like to think in terms of change, we're moving away from this didactic model where patient comes to see doctor, doctor tells patient what to do, and, you know, that's it. I very much hope we're moving more towards this shared partnership where we talk with each other as equals to try and see if we can come up with the right plan.

    6. GM

      Yes, and we stop complaining about noncompliant patients. [laughs]

    7. RC

      Yeah.

    8. GM

      [laughs] I, and people who, who have chronic illnesses. Well, um, I, I, you, you've kind of reminded me of something that I wa- wanna talk about. [laughs]

    9. RC

      Please.

    10. GM

      That, uh, I've worked a lot with dreams, my own dreams and patients' dreams and so on, and it's been very helpful. I've paid a lot attention to what, um, my children have said as f- as they were growing up. Like, my three-year-old came in one day and he said, uh, "Mama, I know something." And I says, "What's that, Bobby?" He says, "If I make a friend and he makes a friend and he makes a friend, it's gonna go all around the world and come back to me." So he's in the humanistic psychology area. Okay? I mean, that's what he's ... He, he came in to do this, and he's been working towards it. And my son who's helping me [laughs] here now is a retired Presbyterian minister, but when he was seven, he says, "I wish Jesus was here." And I said, "Oh, well, I do too, but why you?" And he says, "'Cause I got questions." And I says, "Well, ask me." And he says, "Yeah, but you don't have the answers." And I says, "Well, let's just try it. But ask me a question." He says, "Okay, how can God be if He never got started?" [laughs] You know?

    11. RC

      It's a good question.

    12. GM

      And I said, "Oh, yes." [laughs] You know? And I said, "Well, maybe it's a circle. It, it doesn't have a beginning and an end." He said, "I knew you didn't have the answer," and off he goes off. But the point being th- these children come into the world, and we all have a purpose. We're here for a really good purpose, and if we can pay attention to what they're asking us and saying, I, I think one of the, the things that helped me so much was that my mother and dad understood that. And they listened. My dolls were always sick. I was always trying to fix my dolls. My sister wouldn't let me play with hers because mine got ... You know, it was that kind of [laughs] thing. I knew when I was t- two that I was a doctor. I didn't think I was gonna be one, I was. And it's the ... I, I think a lot of children come in knowing their destiny, and then we don't realize what they're really saying to us.

  5. 16:37 – 19:14

    Being a Woman in Medical School

    1. RC

      It's fascinating to hear that. You know, when you went to medical school, Gladys-

    2. GM

      Yeah

    3. RC

      ... was it common for women to go to medical school back then?

    4. GM

      It, very uncommon, but I went to Woman's Medical College in Philadelphia, who no- which no longer exists. But, um, we started with 50, uh, students. Only 25 of us graduated within that class because the, the concept was you're going out into a man's world, and you're, you have to be better than the others. You have to b- know more, do more. And so, you know, um, half of the class flunked out, and I was sent to the psychiatrist twice because I didn't have the proper [laughs] ... Th- they didn't think that I had the proper attitude. I mean, I was looking for this inner healing process that we're talking about, and I couldn't find it. And, um, so I would ask questions that would upset the teachers, that would, that sup- s- upset the dean, and you know, then I'd end up at the psychiatrist's office.

    5. RC

      C- can I ju- y- you genuinely, you were referred to a psychiatrist by your medical school?

    6. GM

      Uh-huh.

    7. RC

      I mean, that is staggering to hear that, that that actually ... You know, c- paint the picture for us. What year was that, and what did the psychiatrist say to you?

    8. GM

      Well, the psychiatrist, you know, he did, uh, all his testing, and he says, "Oh, go back. You're fine."

    9. RC

      Yeah, it's fascinating that I think in the UK, and I believe in America now, there are more women-

    10. GM

      Yeah

    11. RC

      ... at medical school than men. So the-

    12. GM

      Yeah

    13. RC

      ... tide really is shifting massively.

    14. GM

      It is.

    15. RC

      And if that continues, it's naive, I think, to think that the practice of medicine won't also evolve and become different. It must do because men and women, fundamentally at our core there are some big differences. And if, you know, if 90% of doctors are men, it stands to reason that certain practices will stay in place. Whereas, if we move to a point where 90% of medical doctors are women, I think it's natural that that will change. So it's interesting to see how this whole space evolves.

    16. GM

      Yeah.

  6. 19:14 – 26:44

    Secret One: You Are Here for a Reason

    1. RC

      In your book you have these six secrets, right? And they're, they're, they're very, very powerful. The first one is something you've alluded to already. You are here for a reason. You already spoke about the importance of purpose, and you mentioned children and how often they actually know their purpose. You can see what it is from the things that they're curious about and inquisitive about. But maybe we shut it down as parents, maybe society starts to shut it down, so we have this epidemic of people, I would say now, in midlife who are hearing about purpose and thinking, "Yeah, but, but what is this purpose? Like, all I can do is get to my job, pay my bills, try and feed my family," and this idea of purpose seems like an optional extra. Yet you start your book, out of these six secrets, the number one secret is you are here for a reason. So I wonder if you could explain how do you see purpose, or what you call in the book juice, right? How do we find our juice? And then people who are struggling and don't feel they've found theirs yet, what guidance would you give to them?

    2. GM

      Just start looking for it, you know? Until you start looking for something, you don't see it. You think that you're stuck in a job that is... Has no purpose for you, but what purpose are you looking for? What, what is it that you... makes you want to really take a deep breath and say, "Oh yes, it's a new day"? What is it that you really know is part of who you are? And you may not have even thought about that because you thought you had, had to make the money to do the things to buy the house. You thought you had to manifest these things, and you've done it, and you've worked at it, and you're d- But why? What... Who is it, what is it, where is it that you are looking for something that makes you sing, that makes you want to dance, that makes you... Maybe it's in your dreams. Maybe it's a neighbor down the street who is really having a hard time, and you haven't, haven't noticed. Maybe it's a, the salesgirl at the, at the, uh, dress shop who gets sniP- snippy or something with you, and you don't realize that she's just about at her edge. You know, it's looking for ways in which you can actually do something that helps you, yourself, and others. Because for life to be real, it has to move. If it gets stuck, then it get... then it dies. Life cannot m- cannot move unless we as our inner core are directing it to move, and where it moves, and how it moves, and so on.

    3. RC

      You know, in the introduction y- you write about the shift in perspective, and you write about something called moving towards life, which I really like. It's the central philosophy-

    4. GM

      Right

    5. RC

      ... I think behind the entire book. Move towards life. So if I think about that through the lens of purpose, and let's say that parent maybe in midlife now who feels a bit stuck, who feels that, "You know what? I don't really enjoy my job, but it pays for a roof over my head, and it helps me feed my family." Now, it's interesting that you say the central thing we need to get right is get our perspective right, right? And I, you know, not, not that it's for me to agree or disagree, right? You've got much more experience than I do, but for what it's worth I completely agree. I think we get to choose our perspective, and the way we decide to choose that perspective determines a huge amount in terms of how we experience life, but also our health and our happiness. Now, let's take that parent for a minute. This mythical parent, this hypothetical parent. They could look at that job... And I, I don't wanna under- You know, I, I wanna be respectful. People are struggling. A lot of people-

    6. GM

      Right

    7. RC

      ... have tough lives, right? So I'm not trying to-

    8. GM

      Absolutely

    9. RC

      ... paper over the cracks here. But you could look at that negatively and go, "Oh, this is boring," right? "I don't like this job. It's mundane. It's tedious. But yeah, I need to do it 'cause it pays the mortgage and feeds my family." But could you also, through the lens of- Your approach saying we are here for a reason, and I kind of feel that our purpose can, can change throughout life. It doesn't have to be this one thing that stays for the entirety of life. Maybe in that moment, the fact that that job feeds their children and themselves and puts a roof over their heads, well, can that not be the purpose of that job?

    10. GM

      Absolutely. Absolutely. What greater purpose, you know? And if you can put, uh, that energy into what is, is that you're doing, the resentment goes away because then you're doing it for your family, and you know you're doing it for your family. And if you want to really, uh, juice that up some, ask your dreams. Pay attention to your dreams. Go... When you go to bed, write down, "I will remember my dreams," and then see what you can do. See what you got in the way of dreams, and s- find out what it's saying to you. It's... Dreams have been so helpful to me and, and you know, there are times when you get stuck, and you can't see the way out, and it's, it's just, you know, you just... It- it's so dark and, and painful, and you think you are... But you... If you, if you can allow yourself to move with that pain to where it's teaching you what it is. Now, maybe it is, "Well, I'm the breadwinner for this family," and wow, you know, this is great. Or, "I'm a seamstress, and I'm a woman, and l- look at the things I can do and work with to help other..." You know, it's, it's putting p- some purpose into what it is that you're doing.

    11. RC

      Yeah.

    12. GM

      And every th- thing that you do can be a part of the purpose.

  7. 26:44 – 34:55

    Rangan's Father, Culture, and Human Dominion

    1. RC

      Yeah, appreciate you sharing that, Gladys. As you were speaking then, I was thinking about my dad, and my dad died maybe 10 and a half years ago now. And a quick overview just to put, you know, paint the picture for you, is that my dad grew up in India. I know you grew up in India. We can maybe talk about that later. Dad grew up in India, and he moved to the UK in the early 1960s to work here as a doctor. And the truth is that Dad worked himself into the ground. Like, he slept three nights a week for 30 years because he did two jobs. He did his hospital consultant job, and he also did night calls as a GP. Um, so for 30 years, my dad only slept three nights a week, and he did that to, uh, you know, send money back home to help his parents and his siblings and also to give us a great education and a good life. You know, this is a classic immigrant story that many people have, right?

    2. GM

      Mm-hmm, yeah.

    3. RC

      People move to a different country to find a better life. Now, here's the thing. I know that Dad's stress and chronic insom- well, chronic sleep deprivation, not insomnia really. This is... You know, it wasn't that he couldn't sleep. He was just out working instead of sleeping. I know that's why or a major contributing factor as to why my dad got the autoimmune disease lupus in his late 50s and kidney failure and dialysis for 15 years, right? So I, I have no doubt in my mind that that was a massive cause of that, right? And ultimately, Dad dies because of this just over 10 years ago. Now, what's really interesting, as you were talking about purpose there, Gladys, I was thinking because I, I, I now reflect on my dad's life and think I don't think my dad was actually happy. I think he resented much of what he felt he had to do. But I don't know that. I don't know that.

    4. GM

      Yeah.

    5. RC

      And maybe, and I often think if my dad was alive, one question I'd love to ask him, I'd love to say to Dad, "Was it worth it?" You know, was it worth it? Maybe to my dad, and of course I can't speak for him, but maybe he will say, "Hey, Son, you know what? Yeah, 15 years being on a dialysis machine, losing my eyesight, being stuck in a chair. You know, the fact that I was able to feed my family back home, look after them-

    6. GM

      Absolutely

    7. RC

      ... give you and your brother a great education, give you a great start in life. Look at you now, what you're doing, how many people you're helping. You know what? I'll take that." Now, that is-

    8. GM

      Yeah

    9. RC

      ... honestly one question I wish I could ask Dad because I don't know. It's easy to say, "Oh, the work killed Dad. He shouldn't have done it." But now I'm thinking, well, wait a minute, maybe he'll take that deal. And I think that really speaks to what you're saying in secret one, which is you are here for a reason.

    10. GM

      Absolutely.

    11. RC

      Maybe that was Dad's purpose.

    12. GM

      Absolutely.

    13. RC

      Maybe he sacrificed his health, but maybe he lived his purpose.

    14. GM

      Particularly coming out of the, the Indian culture.

    15. RC

      Yeah.

    16. GM

      You know, the culture, you really understand that and, and he understood that, and he came to do it, and he did it, and it was painful and horrible and all of that, but he did it. The cultural aspects of our being ... are, um, part of what we deal with also. And I, uh, I think it's, um, probably important to integrate that into how it is that we're, um, not just d- directing our lives, but, but how it is th- we understand how that influences our lives.

    17. RC

      Mm.

    18. GM

      You know, that's, those, these cultural processes, these have been building for eons, and they have all kinds of, of, um, thoughts and music and art and all of that that's all piled into that that's part of our deep, deep understanding of who we are. And see, I have [laughs] this idea, uh, that when God created us, God says, "Okay, you human beings are the only things that have w- w- will, and you can think for yourselves, and, and, you know, this is... And choice. Will and choice. Nothing else on the Earth can do that, but you can, so I give you dominion over the Earth." And we human beings, in our arrogance, thought He said dominance.

    19. RC

      [laughs]

    20. GM

      And that's not what He said. We're, w- we dominate everything on the Earth, and in the meantime, damage ourselves because our body is our Earth. Our personal Earth is here

    21. RC

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    22. GM

      And if we think that we, uh, can go around just doing funky hunky-dory things to the Earth and not suffer ourselves, it's like, uh, cutting your fingernails too s- uh, short and think that that's not gonna hurt. I mean, it's, it's, the, the things that we do which have been part of our cultural, uh, process for eons.

    23. RC

      Yeah.

    24. GM

      And I truly think that what we're doing now, when I say reaching for the light, I think we're reaching for our true humanity like ET-

    25. RC

      [laughs]

    26. GM

      ... when he was reaching to go home. I think there's that inner, uh, longing to become our true humanity. And, uh, and I think it's within each one of us. We just have to see sometime when we're stuck, and we can say to ourselves, "Well, what is it that I really am reaching for?" You know? What, what is it that I really... What, what m- makes me sing? What, what makes it... You know, it's that kind of a question that we ask ourselves, not what the teacher told me to do or what the doctor told me to

  8. 34:55 – 42:27

    Aging, Death, and the Ten-Year Plan

    1. GM

      do.

    2. RC

      Gladys, do you see yourself as old?

    3. GM

      Well, I, I, [laughs] I know I'm 102, okay? And a half. All right? Well, uh, I, parts of me are old, but there are parts that are getting... I ha- new selves every day that are, uh, you know, part of my process that I'm still here. But it's like when you're growing up, you know, uh, you be, uh, you know, see somebody, and a month later they say, "My, how you've grown." Because you j- you don't see growth.

    4. RC

      Mm.

    5. GM

      You know, we, we... You can. You can measure it inch by inch and stuff, but most of the time we don't see growth. We don't see life. We don't see where we're doing things better or worse or whatever. We, we don't look at life that way.

    6. RC

      Mm.

    7. GM

      But if we start looking at life as what it is right now, it's awesome. And I, I, I can't... I could not have imagined when I was anything, well, se- 90, that I would still be here talking, you know? I, I had, uh, a sister-in-law that grew, w- w- was in her, was 100 when she died, but otherwise by other, um, uh- Ancestors were in their 90s mostly. But it, it, it wasn't something that, that I was reaching for

    8. RC

      Yeah. Are you afraid of death?

    9. GM

      No. I think it's kinda like going into a dream. You go through that other door, and your consciousness goes on, and it's different. [laughs]

    10. RC

      You, you mentioned earlier on in this conversation that you have a 10-year plan, and what's interesting to me when I hear that is the common narrative in society around aging is pretty negative.

    11. GM

      Uh-huh.

    12. RC

      You're gonna lose your memory. You're gonna lose your focus. You're going to lose your physical abilities. You know, people generally, as they get older, to my knowledge, I don't hear many people talking about 10-year plans, so it's very inspiring to hear you at the age of 102 talk about your 10-year plan. I'll definitely ask you to share it a bit later on, but what, what, what's interesting to me, the plan is interesting for sure. I'd love to hear about it, but what's more interesting to me is the fact that you have a plan, that you are still curious. You're still looking forward. There are still things you want to do. I guess, speaking to secret one, you still have your purpose.

    13. GM

      Yeah. Well, I do, and it's a matter of being aware that I'm alive right now, doing what I need to do right now because there's more to be done. It's that, that kind of a thought, not whether it's six years or five years or f- You know, you put a number on it to, to give yourself a, a direction, but the reality is that I need to do this that I'm doing right now so that I can do the next thing that I'm gonna do l- later on today and the next thing. It's a, it's a re- Life has to move. As soon as it gets stuck, it's re- reaching towards death. So it's that constant movement of moving forward. The 10-year can move forward. You may not make it, but that's ... It's a moving target.

    14. RC

      Yeah.

    15. GM

      And it's, uh, it, it's real, so [laughs]

    16. RC

      Yeah. I, I love that. A- as you were speaking then, I, I was also thinking w- in some ways, it doesn't ... Again, this is just my perspective, but to me it seems that in some ways it doesn't actually matter whether the 10-year plan gets realized or not, whether it's your 10-year plan or my 10-year plan. The point is you have a plan that's keeping you going, right? Whether you get there or not, it kinda doesn't matter. And then I was thinking of, well, how does retirement fit in here? My understanding is that you still work. Of course, you just released this book, so at the very least you are an, a working author writing your book and now promoting it. But what do you think of retirement? Is retirement something you ever did, and do you see it as I do that often when people retire they can start to go downhill very, very quickly?

    17. GM

      I always said I wasn't gonna retire from medicine until I had r- something to retire to. So it was when I had the opportunity to go to Afghanistan and work with their birthing process that my brother w- had been working with. A lo- a lo- long story. Anyway, um, I had to have something else to retire to. And, uh, and that ... so, you know, uh, it's not ... It, it's, it's not a fixed up thing, you know? I, I ... If I'm going to reach for something, I'm going to reach for it, and maybe I'll make it. Uh, the try is accorded to m- him or her for righteousness. If we're trying to do something, we're, we're righteous people. [laughs] We're doing the right thing. So if we're ... Whether we make it or not, uh, is whatever happens, you know? I, my, have so many things that I have tried to do. My kids have called them, they're my almosts, you know? I almost made it here on this. We almost got that huge thing that we would ... Almost. It's ... I've had so many almosts, but they are things that have led me along the path to b- be where I am, and I ... How in the world could I have imagined doing this? I mean, it's beyond possibility, and yet here we are.

  9. 42:27 – 45:40

    From a Cablegram to Video Calls: Growing Up in the Himalayas

    1. RC

      Here we are thousands of miles away, never met in person, having a really meaningful and wonderful conversation about the essence of life and health. I mean, if I think to the fact that you're 102 and the fact that the internet probably didn't exist-

    2. GM

      Ah

    3. RC

      ... until what? You were in your 80s?

    4. GM

      Oh, I don't know when I, I don't know when I'd call it. I, I had nothing in the way of, uh ... When, when I, 1920, there w- my parents had to let my family in, in Cincinnati know, and it was a cablegram that went across the ocean, uh, [laughs] and it said, "Girl well." That was it. Because every letter cost them.

    5. RC

      Wow.

    6. GM

      So, you know, uh, it was ... To be able to do this is just, it's mind-blowing.

    7. RC

      Yeah.

    8. GM

      It, it really is. Uh, we, in school, I grew up within the Himalayas, we had- no tele- uh, I m- maybe they had a telephone, but I don't know who they would have called, you know? [laughs] It was ... Uh, but nobody had phone calls. In fact, there's a lovely story. My oldest brother was w- wa- had met a nurse, uh, who was in nurse's training, uh, uh, I mean, language school. But they were, uh ... He was in our house at wh- which was 7,500 feet up on the, in the, uh, Landour, and the school was a thousand feet down and a mile, and there was no way of them communicating. There was no way to get to know how, you know? [laughs] And they're beginning to do this nice relationship, but what my brother did was we had hunting dogs. My dad had trained hunting dogs 'cause in the jungle you needed them and all. And Laddie was a just wonderful dog. So John would write a note and put it on Laddie's collar and say, "Laddie, go to Ada," and Laddie would run down the hill and to the nurse's h- home, [laughs] and the nurses would go, "Ada, your mailman's here." And she would go and get her l- note and answer it and say, "Laddie, take to John," and he'd run up the hill. I mean, to, to have that for the process that was going on, you know, to go from that to what we're doing today, how ... You know, it, it just takes my bre- breath away.

  10. 45:40 – 51:10

    Presence and Finding Light in Dark Times: The Divorce

    1. RC

      Yeah. I wanted to ask you about this idea of living in the moment. Right? You, you, you write about this in the book, this idea of being present, being able to really experience life right here, right now. As you said, the only thing that matters at this moment in time for me, and as you said from you, is our interaction. It's can we be present in life right now? 'Cause that is, that's health, that's happiness. That is-

    2. GM

      Uh-huh

    3. RC

      ... that's everything, right? Being present. Yet many of us struggle with presence. And of course, many of us believe that technology now is making it easier than ever before to be distracted. Of course, you've lived much of your life without this modern technology, so I'd, I'd love to know your perspective on that. But I'd also love to understand from you, are there any practices you would recommend to people who struggle to be present, who're constantly thinking about something else other than where they currently are? You know, what have you found to be helpful with patients who struggled with this in the past?

    4. GM

      If you're stuck, accepting the fact that you're stuck, and look for something else. In other words, uh, if, if life seems so dark or, uh, painful or ... It's like the time, and I'll use stories again because-

    5. RC

      Sure

    6. GM

      ... for me, they tell ... Uh, when my husband for f- asked for a divorce a- after 46 years and I was devastated. I was absolutely ... I couldn't imagined this. And so I'm really, really in a dark hole. I was ... I'd go out into the desert and just howl like the coyotes. So I mean, it was just terrible. I was still working, but, uh, seeing patients. So this one day I'm driving home and I'm, I'm crying. I'm really crying, and I'm saying, "God, you just don't understand. You don't understand how hard it is," and all of this. And all of a sudden I pull over to the side of the road and I stopped, and the quote came to me, "This is a day the Lord has made. Let us rejoice and be glad in it." And I took a deep breath and I said, "Okay, okay, okay," and I put my license plate Be Glad. So from that day on, every time I got into my car and drove around the city of, of Phoenix, I was saying, "Be glad." In other words, there were... [clears throat] When you're in a situation where you really, really life has, uh, think life has ended, it hasn't. You have to stop and give it time to, uh, for the message to come to you, you know, because it's there, and that really turned things around for me so that I was able to go on. [clears throat] 'Cause actually, uh, I had to give up everything, the whole, uh, co- holistic mo- mo- movement [clears throat] was, um, you know... It, it shattered so much that it was just devastating, but we reclaimed it, and we went back, and my daughter and I started our practice, the Scottsdale Holistic Medical Group. And, um, she's still a concierge pr- uh, physician and, and doing functional medicine. And, you know, it's, [clears throat] it's something that, that, um, I think people... We, as human beings, go through these really difficult times. I've had patients say to me, "Oh, well..." After telling their story, they say, "Oh, well, you would never understand because you've always had it so easy." [laughs] And my answer is, "Oh, honey, if you only knew." [laughs]

    7. RC

      Yeah.

    8. GM

      So it's, it's a matter of understanding that we're all in it together. You know, we all have hard times, and there is always, always light coming. There's... We can, if we reach for it. If we're not gonna reach for it, if we're not gonna re- really see that the sun does come up in the morning, then it's gonna always be dark.

  11. 51:10 – 1:00:03

    Secret Five: Everything Is Your Teacher and Finding Her Voice at 93

    1. RC

      Yeah. Thank you. My favorite one of your six secrets is number five, everything is your teacher.

    2. GM

      Uh-huh.

    3. RC

      Um, I'm biased towards that one because I would say over the last five, 10 years, that's kinda been a big shift within myself, how I look at everything in life now as a learning opportunity, good or bad.

    4. GM

      Yeah.

    5. RC

      So I, I really... I love it because it, it makes us less of a victim to life-

    6. GM

      Uh-huh

    7. RC

      ... and puts us in the driver's seat of life, right?

    8. GM

      Yeah.

    9. RC

      So when we see things as our teacher, there's, there's a learning opportunity in every single situation.

    10. GM

      Yeah.

    11. RC

      So I wanna talk about that secret, what you mean by it exactly. But to start off, you just shared a very powerful story of your husband of 46 years asking you for a divorce, which was devastating to you at the time. So through the lens of everything in life is your teacher, what did that moment teach you?

    12. GM

      Yeah. You know, um, yesterday was the Fourth of July. It was Independence Day here in, in Phoenix, i- in the United States. And 30 years ago, on Independence Day, I moved into this house, and it was after the [laughs] the divorce and after, you know, we had started our own practice and so on. But it w- this fact, I think it's kind of interesting that today is the day after Independence Day for me for 30 years. [laughs] But, um, the, the, the reality of it was that when I started school, I... Now, up until that time, I, I... Life was idyllic. I thought everything was fine. But when I started school, I couldn't read and I couldn't write. I couldn't... All numbers would, would jump, would, would move on the page. And so I had to repeat first grade twice, and, um, the teacher talk, called me a dummy, and I thought I was stupid, and, uh, I fought the kids that called me the dumbest one in the class and all of that stuff for two years. Not at home. At home, it was a completely different t- My parents and [clears throat] my siblings, we had a... I could climb up the hill and life was different. But when I went to school, I was a dummy. That picture of being the stupid one carried through all the way through my life, [clears throat] in that I didn't realize that I had a voice because I thought I always have to have it rechecked. I have to have... If I've written something, I have to have somebody read it and make sure that it's, it's all right. And it wasn't until I was 93 that I find, found my voice. Now, the reason I'm telling you this is because sometimes we have childhood pain or even cultural pain or something that is so deep within us that we don't recognize it for what it is. Bill Mess asking me for the divorce gave me my independence. He literally booted me out, and I needed to, I had to find out how I could go on and how I would be able to continue to do the work. And so it called to the deepest part of myself, and it wasn't until I was 93 that I really realized my voice had... was important. That I, I had been using my... I'd written these books, and I'd done all these things, but I was, uh, always downplaying them by saying, "Yeah, this is, but somebody else..." You know, it was-

    13. RC

      Mm-hmm

    14. GM

      ... and I realized that in downplaying them, I was in essence denying my own voice to myself. But when I was 93, I, I had a dream, and in the dream I saw myself in, as nine-year-old Gladys in the, in the jungles of North India. And I was in... We were in tents and, and I was looking out of the tent to see, make sure my younger brother wasn't there, 'cause he was gonna tattle on me, because I was gonna do something I wasn't supposed to do, and I knew it. And the s- thing that I was sup- were not supposed to do in our family was we were allowed to sing hymns and bhajans on s- a Sunday morning, but not the other stuff that I wanted to sing. And I th- as a wise seven-year-old [laughs] who thought she knew something, thought that was stupid-

    15. RC

      [laughs]

    16. GM

      ... and, uh, I didn't wanna do it, and I wasn't gonna do it. So I cli- Gordon couldn't report me to the, uh... He wasn't there. I climbed as fast as I could to, to the top of the bana- a m- mango tree, and I'm sitting up there, and I'm singing. I'm singing Caterpillar Song and anything else that I wanted to sing.

    17. RC

      [laughs]

    18. GM

      And it was going on and on, and every so often I look over my shoulder, and I see Jesus up in the tree. And Jesus is cracking up. I mean, He's laughing really, really hard. And I say to Jesus, "Jesus loves the little children, right?" And He says, "Yes," and I go back to my singing. But then I begin to doubt, uh, you know, did, did, did He really say that? [laughs] So I look back at Him, and I say, "I'm still a little children, right?" And He says, "Yes," and I go back to singing and laughing, and that's when I woke up and realized that I had been denying my voice all this time-

    19. RC

      Mm-hmm

    20. GM

      ... when even Jesus accepted the fact [laughs] that it was okay. So f- from that point on, I really stopped this foolishness of saying, "Well, somebody else," uh, or this, you know, "I will... I got that from here or there." So the, the whole concept of independence came from that tragic thing that I thought had ended my all that I had done.

    21. RC

      Yeah, Gladys, I really appreciate you sharing that. I think it's, it's such a powerful story. It's very inspiring as well, actually, the fact that it was only when you were 93 when you feel now that you've found your voice. Because I think many of us feel that we've still not found our voice. We're scared about what other people will think of us.

    22. GM

      Right.

    23. RC

      We're scared of actually following our true path, because it's kinda not what our parents want or society wants. And me hearing you say after-

    24. GM

      Yeah

    25. RC

      ... all the incredible things you've achieved in your career and done, me hearing you say that you only really got your voice at the age of 93, I think it gives me, and I hope everyone listening, a lot of hope.

    26. GM

      Yep. Yeah. Because why not? You know, 'cause 93 is st- still a good age [laughs] you know? And, and, uh, absolutely, you know, you, you've got self-doubts, and, and that doesn't mean that self-doubt doesn't creep in here, here now occasionally, but I know that it's, you know, that I can still understand the thing that I'm really, really saying.

    27. RC

      Yeah. You know,

  12. 1:00:03 – 1:09:04

    Secret Four: Finding the Friend Within Others

    1. RC

      one of your other secrets that I really liked was secret four, which is you are never truly alone. And there's quite a few chapters in that section, and there's, there's some real wisdom there. One of the chapters I quite liked was the one about finding your friends, and in that you were talking about you aim to love everyone, right? You aim to love everyone, and you had this phrase, "I want to find the friend within them." Can you explain what you mean by that?

    2. GM

      Well, you know, you can either look to the people wh- who are around you, who are, who are in your environment as, uh, friends or foe. And there are people who, uh, don't think like you do or you know are doing things that are painful and, uh, so on. Uh- It's a matter of what you w- wanna focus on. I, I know there are people out there who are hurting other people and doing bad things to other people. But they are there because they have their lessons to learn. They... That, that's their issue, and I don't have to c- carry their issue. I mean, th- there are people who are doing bad things, but I don't have to understand what it is that they're trying to understand. I just have to understand that they're con- confused and stuck and doing these things, and bless them and go on. I mean, it's a matter of accepting the fact that there are evil things that go on in this world, but I don't need to dig in that p- in that patch. I don't need to dig in that mud hole. Uh, it, it's not something I choose to do. I'd much rather walk in the garden than to, uh, dig in the garbage stuff outside. And, um, I, I think it's, it really is a matter of choice as to how... You know, there are people th- who do things that I really don't like. But [sighs] is my talking about that making it better or worse, or my dealing with it? What's my engagement with that doing to what they're doing? If I continue to, uh, every time I talk to somebody talk about how awful somebody is or, or, you know, I mean, whatever, uh, that just continues it. But if I can just look at it and say, "Well, that's their burden to carry," and, uh, they'll loo- learn what they can learn. But I just have to learn that they still are a human being who has the option of reaching their true humanity, and I'm just gonna keep looking for that-

    3. RC

      Yeah

    4. GM

      ... within that person.

    5. RC

      I, I really th- I really love that. It's choosing where you place your attention. To make sure you're taking action after watching this video, I've created a free guide to help you build healthy habits. We can all make short-term change, but can those changes become a fundamental part of our life? Often they don't, and that's why in this free guide I share with you the six crucial steps you need to take that are really, really effective. If you wanna get hold of that free guide right now, all you have to do is click the link in the description box below. Right?

    6. GM

      Yeah.

    7. RC

      This is one of the strengths of a gratitude practice. It's like, yeah, we can find plenty of negatives each day, and the brain's wired to look for those. So an intentional practice of gratitude is simply starting to direct your attention little by little each day to the good that does exist, the positives that do exist. And it's, you know, it's... As you were explaining that perspective, your words were really interesting to me. You didn't say there are bad people in the world. You said there are people who are doing bad things.

    8. GM

      Mm-hmm.

    9. RC

      Right? And there's a massive difference, right? There's a huge difference. You're not calling that person bad, wrapping up the entirety of them within this kind of three-letter word. You're going, "No, that's one aspect of them that I can see, but there's other aspects of them." You know, when I learnt this... Well, there's many, many experiences in life that have taught me this lesson, but I remember a few years ago I was at a conference. I think it was a medical conference. And someone who I had seen online who I didn't really like the way they came across online. I thought they were quite combative, talking down about other people constantly, you know, encouraging pile-ons to people online, this is. And I met them at a conference. I can't remember where. I saw them and I had an interaction with them, and I thought, "Wow, they're really nice, actually. You know what? I bet they're a really good dad." And, uh, the, the point was it just made me think there are so many facets to all of us, right? We have these-

    10. GM

      Yeah

    11. RC

      ... we all do things maybe that other people may not like, myself included, right?

    12. GM

      Yeah. Yeah.

    13. RC

      And we can focus on that if we want or go that actually we are this rich tapestry of different behaviors and emotions. We can all find fault in other people. We can all find good things in, I think, every single person. I... And in fact, I'd encourage people listening to think about someone you really don't like and you think are problematic, and just ask yourself, you know, can you think of one quality that they have or maybe two or three qualities? And, you know, most of the time you can find those qualities. They do exist. So my question to you then, Gladys, is why should someone do that, right? Why shouldn't they say, "Oh, they're bad. I don't want to interact with them," right? What is the benefit to the individual to start looking at the positives in everyone or, as you write about, to aim to love everyone?

    14. GM

      Well, my mo- my mother taught me that. She had a saying. [clears throat] You know, if I'd come in and I was complaining about my brother who was doing something wrong, she'd say, "There's so much bad in the best of us, and so much good in the rest of us, that it hardly behooves any of us to talk about the rest of us." And I would stand there and mouth it.

    15. RC

      [laughs]

    16. GM

      You know, she ... [laughs] Because I'd heard it so many times.

    17. RC

      Yeah. See, I think this stuff is key for health and happiness and longevity.

    18. GM

      Yeah.

    19. RC

      I think this is the missing piece that doesn't get spoken about.

    20. GM

      Well-

    21. RC

      Because if you hold on to this negative outlook in life-

    22. GM

      Oh

    23. RC

      ... if you hold on to resentment, if you like to judge other people, you know what? You're not gonna be healthy, you're not gonna be happy, and I'm pretty sure you ain't gonna live a long life. I just, [scoffs] I just, I don't believe it. And there's, there's, you know, there's so much research on the negatives of resentment, and an inability to forgive, and what that does to-

    24. GM

      Right

    25. RC

      ... blood pressure, or risk of autoimmune disease, all kinds of things. There are strong links between the mind-

    26. GM

      Right

    27. RC

      ... and our physical health. And I know you know this, you know? You were probably lecturing all around the world about this long before I was even born.

    28. GM

      [laughs]

    29. RC

      But it's certainly a truth that I've discovered in two decades of practice.

    30. GM

      Right. And it sours your stomach. I mean, [laughs] you know, if you are h- h- thinking bad thoughts, and sour thoughts, and mean thoughts about somebody, it y- it's hard to digest.

  13. 1:09:04 – 1:15:10

    Regrets, Choice, and Living Medicine

    1. RC

      It reminds me a little bit of the section about regrets. And, you know, first of all, I, I guess, let me ask you, at 102, what do you regret in life?

    2. GM

      [sighs] Um, I, I really believe that everything that happened to m- me was there for a reason. And, um, I, I really ... The whole business of, of having that divorce, and the way I feel about that, I don't, I don't regret one minute the ti- time that I spent with Bill McGarey. But then I figure he took a vacation. So I don't have ... I, I just, it took me a long time to get to that, but I finally realized that if I hung on to the pain that I was still having from what was our relationship, i- i- it, it didn't s- serve me. It just made me feel bad. But if I could look at what we had together, we climbed the pyramid together. We did, you know, all kinds of things. We had these six amazing kids together, and all of a sudden I have this amazing, uh, memory lane that I could go down. And, uh, I figure, well, Bill, you took a vacation, but I'm on this memory lane place where I'm going to d- I'm going to learn what I had to learn from it and go on with it.

    3. RC

      You know, throughout this conversation, Gladys, I think you've used the word choose-

    4. GM

      Uh-huh. [laughs]

    5. RC

      ... a lot. And I think it's really telling because going back to that central philosophy in your book and your approach, it's about that shift in perspective. We can choose our perspective.

    6. GM

      Right.

    7. RC

      We can hopefully listen to the words of wisdom you share in your book and, and in this conversation and go, "Wow. Yeah, you know, I don't have to take this negative approach to life or to other people. I can if I want to. It may be hard at first, but I can practice and get better at it. I can cultivate that skill of choosing to look at the positives."

    8. GM

      Right.

    9. RC

      So I think that word choice i- is really, really important. Is that something you've had to talk to your patients about over the years?

    10. GM

      Oh, all the time. All the time. Yeah. Because, uh, I, I, I h- I have one friend and patient who I took c- care of for 50 years, and she just died last month, but she lived with one quarter of one kidney.

    11. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    12. GM

      I have no idea how she did that. None of the, the, uh, my colleagues ... Sh- you know, she would have problems. None of us could understand how she was able to live with one quarter of one kidney. And she was, when she, um, s- went to see a physician for whatever, you know, a specialist, and if, if she didn't, if she was, uh, labeled noncompliant, uh, it was because she knew what she could do to keep herself healthy and what she couldn't do. And there were some things that she couldn't do, and she wouldn't do 'em So th- those of us who took care of her through those 50 years got to appreciate the physician within her as a huge colleague of ours. What had happened was when she was 18 months old, she was, she climbed a ladder, and they lived out here in Phoenix, and the, uh, they were doing some repairing on the roof, and she slipped on the ladder and fell into a tar bucket, and r- when she injured the one kidney so badly that it had to be removed.

    13. RC

      Mm.

    14. GM

      And the other one was, uh, okay for a few months, but then she developed pyelonephritis, and part of that had to be re- removed. And here she lived to be 76. You know, these people, I, I have had... I call them, um, people who are, are living the life of living medicine. They are living with medicine that we need to learn from, and they can, uh, teach us because they are living it.

    15. RC

      Mm.

    16. GM

      And we as physician, the- need to, um, yeah, we need to understand that the physician within them has the real, uh, essence of what it is that they can do to cl- do the healing.

  14. 1:15:10 – 1:18:47

    Final Advice: Love and a Village for Living Medicine

    1. RC

      Well, Gladys, look, it's been a real pleasure talking to you. We haven't even touched on a fraction of the golden wisdom-

    2. GM

      [laughs]

    3. RC

      ... that exists inside your book. Um, just to finish off this conversation, Gladys, we're living in a time now where many people are really struggling. They're struggling with their mental wellbeing, they're worried about the future of the planet, they're worried about what they watch on the news, they're struggling with their physical health. So you have over eight decades worth of clinical experience, right? Putting it all together, maybe covering some of the things we've already spoken about, but for that person right now who feels stuck in their life and can't see a way out, what advice would you give them?

    4. GM

      Start loving your life. Start loving yourself. Start understanding the, the very essence of love is, is what is healing. It heals everything. A mother kissing her child's boo-boo starts the healing process, but the whole aspect of healing, true healing, true healing of our beings, is love, and God is love. You know, it's that very essence that love itself is the true healer. So if we can focus on what it is in our lives that we love and what, what it is that we want to continue to share with other people because we want other people to love, too.

    5. RC

      Yeah. Thank you, Gladys. I appreciate you sharing that.

    6. GM

      You're welcome.

    7. RC

      And I just realized that we heard about your 10-year plan, but we never heard what it was. So I wonder, just in the remaining few minutes we have left, um, can you give us an overview? What's the 10-year plan?

    8. GM

      Yes.

    9. RC

      What do you hope to be doing at the age of 112?

    10. GM

      Create a village for living medicine, where what we talk about in this book is the essence of what the people who are living there want to be l- living for. And it can happen any place in the world. You know, it's, it's a matter of where you choose to live and, and grow and have your essence manifest.

    11. RC

      Thank you, Gladys. I wish you all the best with that 10-year plan-

    12. GM

      Thank you

    13. RC

      ... with your mission. You've been inspiring people for decades now. I think the book is something very special. There's a lot of wisdom in that book. I can't think of a single person who it won't help. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

    14. GM

      Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

    15. RC

      [Instrumental music] If you enjoyed that conversation, I think you're really going to enjoy this one about the four main causes of reduced longevity and what you can do about it.

    16. RC

      Today we're at a point where not only has life expectancy flattened, but in many parts of the developed world, it's actually declining a little bit. And more importantly, quality at the end of life is going down. The question is, why?

Episode duration: 1:18:48

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Transcript of episode L7VHiX5HP_w

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