Still Confused About Your Health? THIS Is Why Nothing’s Working | Dr. William Li

1. 0:00 – 1:09

   Why health advice feels confusing in the age of information overload

   1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee0:00

      I wanna talk about this era of information overload because I think people can consume all kinds of information now. They can read books, they can watch your YouTube channel or my YouTube channel, and they can get all this information. Yet, I still think with all this information, so many people are confused and they go, "Well, yeah, Dr. Li, you're saying this. Someone else is saying this. Someone else I, I followed online is saying this." And my feeling, and I'd love to know your perspective on this, is that, yes, we wanna listen to experts. We wanna get their advice and hear about the science and the research, but then we also have to then go inwards and go, "Okay, which bit of this advice works for us? I heard Dr. Li say this. I heard Dr. Chatterjee say this. I heard Dr. whoever else say this." But actually, you know what? When I eat like that, that's when I feel good, and I feel we're missing that these days. We- we've outsourced our inner expertise about our own bodies far too much to external experts, and I think that is a massive problem these days that we're not talking about enough.

2. 1:09 – 2:12

   Reclaiming your ‘inner expertise’: health is personal and context-dependent

   1. WLDr. William Li1:09

      Yeah, no. Uh, our own health is incredibly personal. What makes me feel good when I make a food decision, or I sit down to make a meal or, or even how I prepare a meal, for example, or if I sit at a restaurant, uh, wh- where I naturally kind of gravitate in terms of ordering food, that's very personal to me. And how I feel about, uh, uh, how I eat and how much I eat and when I eat, these are all, uh, very important factors for health. But, uh, uh, but how it works for me is gonna be different than how it works for you-

   2. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:42

      Mm-hmm

   3. WLDr. William Li1:42

      ... for example, or, or anybody who's listening. So knowing thyself, like self-knowledge, is true knowledge. Every individual needs to reckon and recognize their own self-knowledge, as well of, of self-knowledge, self-limitation, uh, in order to be able to actually advance. And, and you're right. We spend so much time externally consuming information and not enough time, uh, contemplating how

3. 2:12 – 2:36

   Simple practices that help you tune inward (walking, meditation, breathwork)

   1. WLDr. William Li2:12

      we-- what makes us tick, how are we actually doing it. You know, there are, uh... Taking a walk is a solo a- can be a solo activity that allows you to exercise and be in motion. But if you do it by yourself, I mean, some people like to walk with others-

   2. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee2:28

      Mm

   3. WLDr. William Li2:28

      ... but if you do it by yourself, it's an opportunity to actually calm your mind from other people and think about yourself.

   4. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee2:35

      Yeah.

4. 2:36 – 3:32

   Advice is external—your job is to test, notice, and personalize

   1. WLDr. William Li2:36

      If you meditate, it's another way to actually, um, and, and practice breathing exercise. It's another way to actually center yourself. And I think that, you know, one of the things, even though we talk about healthy foods and we talk about exercise, all these-- we give a lot of recommendations, right? And, and I wanna talk about the information overload sources in, in just one second. But, you know, we give a lot of advice, recommendations because part of our mission, your mission and mine, is to get useful information out to people. But, you know, that's still an external thing-

   2. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee3:07

      Yeah

   3. WLDr. William Li3:08

      ... to somebody listening to us. What's really important, e- equally important, is that, uh, anybody who wants to pursue better health, take the time to really get to know, uh, uh, how they feel, uh, when they're healthy and how they feel when they're not feeling so healthy, and how individual moves make them feel-

5. 3:32 – 4:32

   Personalized medicine is the future (and the old cookbook model is outdated)

   1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee3:32

      Mm

   2. WLDr. William Li3:32

      ... to, to find out what their own path is. Everyone's got their own path. And, and, by the way, uh, I, I would say this again, I mentioned it briefly, personalized medicine is where all medicine is going.

   3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee3:43

      Yeah.

   4. WLDr. William Li3:43

      So I don't care if you're in oncology and cancer-- treating cancer, cardiology, treating, you know, blockages of your blood vessels in your heart. The bottom line is that we're all realizing one size doesn't fit all.

   5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee3:53

      Yeah.

   6. WLDr. William Li3:54

      All right? And every individual's going to be different and respond differently to the same treatment that we might... Listen, medicine, when, when you were training and I was training, I'm, I'm sure we had some very, very common patterns and themes. One of the themes is that you take an antibiotic, you say-- get right the same dose, and you treat for the same number of days, and you're done. It's like a cookbook that's just supposed to work the same way for everyone, and it's just not so. It's not true in medicine, it's not true in nutrition, and it's not true in exercise either.

   7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee4:23

      Yeah.

   8. WLDr. William Li4:23

      And so I think that this whole idea of personalization, uh, having, uh, individuals know themselves is absolutely vital.

   9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee4:32

      Yeah.

6. 4:32 – 6:14

   Digital algorithms, attention capture, and the loss of self-knowledge

   1. WLDr. William Li4:32

      Vital to-- as, as a, as a start. And then I wanna say just one more thing about this whole information overload. You know, this is true for children, uh, who are consuming, uh, uh, information, uh, uh, in a very particular way, right? So typical kid in high school is, or junior high school, or maybe even younger, is on their phone scrolling all day long. They're watching TikTok, they're watching-- looking at various things, they're communicating when-- in-- with Snapchat and quick, you know, communication.

   2. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee5:03

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   3. WLDr. William Li6:00

      It's, it's very externally focused, and it's consumptive. There's an algorithm that, that feeds you more of what you seem to be enjoying seeing or looking at longer.

   4. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee6:10

      Mm-hmm.

   5. WLDr. William Li6:11

      But that doesn't actually help you get to know yourself.

   6. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee6:13

      Yeah.

7. 6:14 – 7:42

   How to choose trusted health voices (and avoid ‘wild ideas’)

   1. WLDr. William Li6:14

      And, uh, and it, it also, uh, doesn't force you to consider the source of your i- information. I think another really, uh, important thing for anybody who is interested in health information from experts is first, try not to listen to everybody and everything. You know, try to pick a few people who, um, are trusted voices. It's up to you to decide how you connect to them. One of the big challenges I think of the online community, whether it's YouTube or, uh, Instagram or these other media platforms, is that anybody can actually deliver information. And any-- And, and, and I think that one of the things that I believe is that people who are trained in health and who do research and who are very careful in their communication and how-- what they're actually projecting, um, uh, uh, because words matter-

   2. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee7:16

      Yeah

   3. WLDr. William Li7:16

      ... I think that that's really important, uh, from a, from a source perspective, so you can actually narrow yourself down. Um, you know, pick two or three people that you feel you resonate with, you like their voice, but, but do check into their backgrounds to see if you think that that person should be a trusted resource-

   4. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee7:35

      Yeah

   5. WLDr. William Li7:35

      ... um, so you're not getting, uh, wild ideas that may not actually be correct.

8. 7:42 – 9:08

   From patient to practitioner: becoming your own expert

   1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee7:42

      Yeah. Thank you, William, for sharing that. Really some great life advice there, you know, beyond food in terms of how to navigate the modern world, and I think it's-- I really-- I feel very passionately about that idea that we've gotta start tuning into ourselves more. You know, yes, there are some, some core dietary principles that we can share and, you know, you've written two fantastic books on a lot of these things that, that p- you know, a lot of the foods that people can choose to help improve their health for whatever reason they want. But also, you've gotta try this stuff out for yourself and, and, and really pay attention to when do I feel good? What pattern of eating suits me? When do I not feel bloated? When do I feel that I sleep well? What is going on in my life when those things happen? That's the ultimate knowledge, that self-knowledge, that self-awareness-

   2. WLDr. William Li8:32

      Yeah

   3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee8:32

      ... that insight. That's wisdom. And honestly, if I reflect over my career about the patients who truly transformed their lives for good, it was those patients who at some point converted the advice being from the outside to figuring that out for themselves and going, "No, I know what's best for me. I know which way of eating works best for me," having heard from the experts, but then becoming their own expert. So that's something I, I really wanna help people do more and more. Um, getting back to foods then, uh, Dr. Li, we've mentioned a few foods already that can help our stem cells.

   4. WLDr. William Li9:07

      Hmm.

9. 9:08 – 13:07

   Olive oil and stem cells: key bioactives and protective effects

   1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee9:08

      What about olive oil? Does that have any relationship with our stem cells?

   2. WLDr. William Li9:12

      Absolutely. So olive oil, uh, uh, is a healthy fat, as they say. It's a plant-based food, comes from plants, the olives. Uh, and it, uh, contains bioactives, many bioactives. Some of them have been identified. The ones that actually, uh, have been best studied, one of them is called hydroxytyrosol, the other one's called oleocanthal. And, you know, for people who are listening, you know, if you're a science geek, you can write all this stuff down, but just know that there are these natural substances that have powerful effects on our body. And for example, hydroxytyrosol and-- as a molecule, uh, uh, but olive oil as a food substance, all right? Um, has been shown to be protective of our stem cells, meaning when you, uh, consume olive oil and you get these polyphenols, the hydroxytyrosol, oleocanthal in our bloodstream circulating around-

   3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee10:05

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   4. WLDr. William Li11:24

      Look, there's a lot of stuff in our bloodstream, uh, uh, that, that's going on, a lot of exposures that we have, and when you've got hydroxytyrosol from olive oil in the bloodstream along with your stem cells, they sort of act as police escorts to help your stem cells get to where they go-

   5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee11:41

      Mm-hmm

   6. WLDr. William Li11:41

      ... in a safer way. Uh, they're, they're, they're, uh, they're escorted to where they're needed. They're protected. And so why do they need to be protected? Well, if you think about it, there's a lot of oxidative stress that can be in our bodies. You know, um, oxidative stress can come from, uh, fumes that you breathe, from vaping, from, uh, off-gassing from carpets, from, uh, artificia- artificial, uh, flavorings and preservatives that you have in your food, um, fr- uh, from cleaning materials that you're actually having. All these chemical exposures cause oxidative stress in our blood, which can damage your stem cells. Hydroxytyrosol-Again, is one of those natural molecules that have been shown to protect your stem cells against oxidative stress. So literally, it's like a police escort that helps your stem cells, um, uh, get to where it needs to go, uh, uh, in sort of a safe and efficient manner.

   7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee12:34

      So when you think about olive oil, there are multiple reasons to consume olive oil. You just mentioned the research around stem cells. I'm sure if I asked you about longevity or inflammation or blood vessels, you could also talk to me about the benefits of olive oil.

   8. WLDr. William Li12:50

      Yeah. Yeah.

   9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee12:51

      But how do you recommend people consume it? Are you a fan of it being cold on salads and vegetables, or are you someone who says, "Yeah, it's okay to actually cook with olive oil as well"? Because this is an area of a little bit of confusion and controversy online, so I'd love to get your take on this.

10. 13:07 – 14:21

    Cooking with olive oil: smoke point myths, practical heat guidance, and frying caveats

    1. WLDr. William Li13:07

       Yeah. I, I wanna be very clear about this. Olive oil is, of all the cooking oils, uh, a healthier choice to be able to have with a meal. You can-- You don't have to cook with it, but you can cook with it. Um, there's a myth that olive oil, uh, has a low smoke point, so you shouldn't do high heat cooking. As it turns out, olive oil's, uh, smoke point is almost the same as canola oil, uh, which is, uh, uh, used for frying. It's pretty close. You, you shouldn't reuse, uh, olive oil at a hot heat, but, but cooking with it in a, in a wok, if you're using-- doing Asian cooking, is perfectly fine. Actually, you just have to like the taste of the olive oil, uh, in cooking it. So again, that-that's a little bit of a myth. You can actually cook with olive oil at, at, in, at pretty high heat, and you're fine. Certainly, sautéing is no problem. Frying is-- Stir-frying is no problem. And by the way, in the Mediterranean, I, I don't encourage people to eat a lot of fried foods because the frying creates these little side products called acrylamides-

    2. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee14:05

       Mm-hmm

    3. WLDr. William Li14:05

       ... which, you know, are potentially carcinogenic. But everyone likes their... Occasionally, people like crispy food. Um, you know, in the Mediterranean, how they fry foods, they fry them in olive oil, all right? And in fact, the polyphenols get into the food that you fry.

    4. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee14:21

       Mm-hmm.

11. 14:21 – 19:31

    Choosing high-quality olive oil: monovarietal, scams, and high-polyphenol varieties

    1. WLDr. William Li14:21

       So it actually makes something that's not that healthy, a little bit healthier with the polyphenols in it. Um, I would say, so you can actually cook with it. I'm not saying you should eat or you should fry with it or eat fried foods, but cooking with it is fine. E-- uh, using olive oil, uh, um, cold, plain is, is, is also fine if you wanna dip it into some bread or, uh, put it in a salad dressing. Um, I, uh, think the quality of the olive oil is really, really important, okay? And a lot of people don't appreciate this, but when you go out to buy olive oil, what do most people do? Well, you know, if, if you, if you are for the first time buying olive oil, it's overwhelming how many different choices you have. So you might go for the less expensive one, or you might go for the one that's got a more attractive label on it. Um, I'll tell you the way that, uh, I recommend doing it and what I do myself. I always want to, um, get the highest quality olive oil. Uh, so, um, what, what I look for are olive oils that are made with-- pressed with only one kind of olive. It's called monovarietal olive oil, and there's two reasons for that. When you're-- When olive oil makers make olive oil, they're picking olives when they're ripe off the tree and literally just crushing it and then spinning it in a basket, and so it whips out all the fluid, and the oil floats to the top. Uh, and then the, the watery stuff goes to the bottom, and the chunks flo-- go to the bottom, uh, and they just scoop the olive oil off. They don't filter it, and so that's why you wind up getting, uh, little bits that are green.

    2. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee15:53

       Mm-hmm.

    3. WLDr. William Li15:53

       So extra virgin first press olive oil's always gonna be tastier. You're gonna get that peppery, you know, uh, sometimes peppery, uh, taste to it. By the way, those-- that's what the polyphenols are.

    4. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee16:04

       Mm-hmm.

    5. WLDr. William Li16:05

       They're actually giving you that taste sensation, a great taste sensation of olive oil. All right? Um, many olive oil makers, and you can look this up on Google, there's a whole scam in the olive oil industry where people who are labeling olive oil are, in fact, adding other oils to it.

    6. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee16:23

       Yeah.

    7. WLDr. William Li16:23

       It has some olive oil, and they cut it. Um, and so, um, that's not good. You're, you're getting who knows what other kind of olive oils. It's, it's a whole scam. The other-- Other times, people are mixing different types of olive oils together, sometimes the cheapest ones they can find together to serve it up to you. And so the way to get around that is to look for monovarietal olive, olive oils pressed with only one variety of olives. These are gonna usually be coming from a single farm. All right? Could be a large farm, but a single farm. And this also not only guarantees the quality of the olive oil because it's not gonna be cut with other things.

    8. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee17:01

       Mm-hmm.

    9. WLDr. William Li17:02

       Uh, monovarietal, it's a label. Um, uh, mono, one; varietal, type of olive. Um, but I look for a monovarietal olive oils coming from one of three different kinds of olives that you can actually find very easily-

    10. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee17:15

        Mm-hmm

    11. WLDr. William Li17:15

        ... in the store. And the reason I look for them is 'cause they have the highest levels of polyphenols of all the olives. All right. So if you like Spanish olive oil, all right, I look for monovarietal Spanish olives made with the type of olive, the variety of olive called Picual, P-I-C-U-A-L, Picual olives. Fortunately, it's a very common olive in Spain, and fortunately, that olive you can easily find Picual monovarietal olive oil, and it's not that expensive. All right? Uh, if you like Greek olive oil, I love Greek olive oil, um, the, uh, uh, the olives that have highest polyphenols among Greek olives are called Koroneiki, K-O-R-O-N-E-I-K-I, Koroneiki olives.

    12. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee17:59

        Mm.

    13. WLDr. William Li18:00

        It's come from the Peloponnesus. Fortunately, a very common, uh, o-olive in Greece, monovarietal, highest polyphenols, taste amazing, great for whatever you're cooking or grilling or salad dressing. And then Italian, if you like Italian olive oils, in Umbria, the highest mo-- uh, polyphenols have been found in Moraiolo olives, M-O-R-O-A-I-L-O, Moraiolo olives, which is found in Umbria. It's a less common olive. It's gonna be more expensive, but again, tastes great, highest polyphenols. And so I kinda tell people, "Look, if you're gonna go buy olive oils, why not get the highest quality? It's fuel." And if you're gonna... And, and it's gonna t- you wanna be able to have it taste great if you're gonna use it and dip some bread or whatever it is, sourdough bread or whatever, something healthy i- in it, or you're gonna dribble it on some, uh, uh, some pasta or whatever you're cooking with it. Why not get the best? And why not get the best with the high- not only best taste, but also pure-

    14. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee19:00

        Yeah

    15. WLDr. William Li19:00

        ... and also with the highest polyphenols? And that's how I actually choose with olive oil. By the way, some people have reported, I heard this before, that olive oils are not good for your blood vessels. They actually damage the lining of your blood vessels. That's all bunk. I'm a blood vessel expert, and I'm also an expert on food as medicine. We've studied this. It's a theoretical thing that got put together that winds up actually not being true. Well-intentioned people try to put science together, and if not real scientists and they don't know the data, it, it's understandable

12. 19:31 – 22:01

    How much olive oil to use daily—and making it affordable

    1. WLDr. William Li19:31

       how they may come up with it, but olive oil's perfectly fine. In fact, it's very healthy for your blood vessels. Quite the opposite. Now, how much to eat? You know, there's a lot of studies out there of olive oil. On average, if you take a look at all the studies, the average amount of healthy oil to consume per day is about three to four tablespoons worth of olive oil, okay? That's a fair amount of olive oil if you're not an olive oil consumer, but if you think about the Mediterranean, three to four tablespoon. Go ahead and take a measuring, uh, uh, uh, spoon out in your, in your kitchen, and t- take out three to four tablespoons and put it into, on a dish. It's not that much. And if you are, um, scrambling your eggs with it, all right, if you like eggs, um, instead of butter, and at lunch if you're making a salad dressing with it-

    2. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee20:21

       Mm

    3. WLDr. William Li20:21

       ... and you're gonna put some salad dressing on, and then at, at dinner if you're gonna roast some vegetables, uh, or, or grill some vegetables and you're gonna put some olive oil on it, you will easily get three to four, uh, tablespoons of olive oil into your system.

    4. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee20:34

       Okay, brilliant. That's super practical. So essentially, a lot of advice there on olive oil. If people are struggling with the cost of things, as many people are these days, is your advice to get the best quality olive oil that you can afford?

    5. WLDr. William Li20:51

       Yeah, absolutely. And, and by the way, you know, I would say it's, it's a buyer's world out there, particularly 'cause you could buy things on the internet as well.

    6. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee21:00

       Mm.

    7. WLDr. William Li21:00

       If you search for, um, monovarietal, uh, Picual or Koroneiki or Moraiolo olive oil, and you just let the internet show you what's the cheapest one, you know, and do a little review to make sure that they're, you know, a good quality manufacturer or supplier. Order it. Buy it, you know?

    8. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee21:18

       Yeah.

    9. WLDr. William Li21:18

       Um, that, that's the fastest way to actually get high quality. Listen, people, people spend a lot of money on a lot of different things, right? But then you actually, again, take a, take a look at your own lifestyle. I can tell you the best investment you can make is getting high quality food for yourself. And in Eu- in, in Europe, it's a lot better than the United States. I mean, people buy junk stuff for food, and they spend their money on things that are unhealthy, um, uh, uh, as well. They get... They buy cheap, unhealthy things, and they spend money on healthy, unhealthy things. I think food is one... Getting healthy food, high quality food is one of the best investments you can actually make.

    10. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee21:54

        [upbeat music] If you enjoyed that short clip, I think you are really going to enjoy the full conversation, which you can check out here.

Episode duration: 22:15