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Dr Rangan ChatterjeeDr Rangan Chatterjee

The Most EYE OPENING SPEECH On A Successful Life NOBODY SHARES | Priyanka Chopra Jones

My guest today is Priyanka Chopra Jonas – arguably one of the most famous people on the planet.

Priyanka Chopra JonasguestDr. Rangan Chatterjeehost
Jul 27, 202254mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 1:05

    Getting unstuck through small changes and finding inspiration

    1. PJ

      If you wanna get somewhere in life, it's really not the overhaul at all. It always is the small changes. The only way to feel motivated is... [upbeat music] I have in my life m- many times, you know, been stuck as well emotionally, and I've felt that the one thing that usually gets me out of being stuck, um, is by getting out of my own way, you know? And, and looking at a positive. My mom told me since I was very young that no matter how badly off you are, someone else is worse off than you. So if you just see the good in a situation, then, you know, you ha- it, it takes away the power from the bad. 'Cause it is what it is, and you're- it's okay to feel that way, too. I mean, every- all of us can have frustrating situations. Um, today was a frustrating morning for me, but it's all right, you know? We do what we can, and we just have to make sure that the only way to feel motivated, and that's when you do your best job, right, is when you're feeling motivated or inspired, is to find something to be inspired about.

  2. 1:05 – 3:06

    “There is a first time for everything”: choosing new challenges and building opportunities

    1. RC

      Yeah. Your Instagram bio says, "There is a first time for everything." And there's so many components of that that, that really make me sit and reflect. I look at your career and I look at you as someone who is constantly pushing boundaries, breaking glass ceilings, breaking boundaries, and doing new things. So, y- you know, what, what, what is going on there? Why, why is that the only thing you have at the top of your Instagram bio? Because it seems to, it seems to underpin everything that you do.

    2. PJ

      Well, first of all, because it is a time of firsts for me right now, specifically, um, first time I've written a book, the first time I've founded a beauty brand. Um, I just launched my haircare line. It's called Anomaly, and it's at Target. And, you know, it's j- it's just eight products, and it's really small, and, um, that's just how I wanted to do it. So I'm feeling like it's a time of firsts anyway, and at the same time, um, you know, from a very young age I have always sort of felt the need to walk my own path a little bit, and that was encouraged, um, for me at, at, uh, from my family when I was a kid. Like, I was always asked my opinion. Um, I w- even when the room disagreed with me, my dad used to always say, you know, "There's no point if you don't have an opinion. You have to have an opinion." And, um, because of which I came to realize that, um, when you have an opinion and you can't do anything about it, when there are glass ceilings for you, then, you know, it, it's a kind of a constant struggle. And I, I looked to pave my own way. I looked for, um, you know, creating opportunities where there weren't any. I looked for a gap, and that's always been important to me I think because I didn't want to be contained, and I feel like I have so much I want to contribute, too.

  3. 3:06 – 5:42

    How she describes herself: ambition, choices, and resilience after failure

    1. RC

      Yeah. Well, now I do wanna talk about your childhood, because the way you've been brought up, your parents' marriage, which you've, uh, written about, seems to be very significant. But before we go there, you obviously are, you know, one of the most famous [laughs] people on the planet probably. You're such a well-known personality. But people will know you as a, as an actor, as a producer, as a musician. Whatever they've seen you in or heard you in, they'll have an impression of who you are. But for those people who are coming across you for the first time, how would you describe yourself? Who is Priyanka Chopra Jonas?

    2. PJ

      I mean, honestly, just a girl trying to do the best at her job. [laughs] That's, I mean, if I had to explain who I am, that's basically my motivation, is, you know, I have a job and I'm trying to excel at it. And, um, at the same time I'm trying to be a good person and, you know, enjoy the life that I have built. Um, and but I think, I hope that people who don't know me, uh, and if they come across this book, what they see is, you know, just a girl who's made the best of her circumstances in times that were troubling and times that were, you know, where I failed. I've had the courage to sort of stand up again and, you know, try again. And that's really all I am, a sum of all my choices and just always tried to make the right ones.

    3. RC

      Yeah. You mention in your book, it is such a wonderful read. Honestly, I've-

    4. PJ

      Oh, really? Thank you, Rangan.

    5. RC

      Yeah, I've really enjoyed. I've actually... It, it's wonderful because you're so open and you share so much. It's easy, then, for people like me as a reader-

    6. PJ

      Mm-hmm

    7. RC

      ... to see various aspects of my own personalities in you. And what's interesting to me is what is that like for you? Because, you know, you are this, you know, very well-known public personality, and I'm guessing that by being that, on some level you have to be guarded about what you are prepared to reveal to the world and what you are not. But certainly in this book, it seems if there were any boundaries or barriers that you would erect to maintain your privacy, some of those, I'm guessing, have been knocked down a little bit and you're letting people in a bit more. So why did you decide to do that?

  4. 5:42 – 8:01

    Why she became more open: introspection, insecurity vs. contentment, and the reality of “inconsistent” work

    1. PJ

      Well, first of all, um, now having been, you know, a public person for almost 20 years of my life, um, I've kind of gotten away with just exposing very little bit of myself, and people still think that they know me, you know? Because, um, books have been written about me, articles have been written about me, and people always talk from the perspective of knowing why I've done the things I've done, and- And [laughs] as, as amusing at it, as it is to be a spectator of my own life, um, I, on the other side of 35 right now, reached a point where, you know, um, I'm secure in myself, I'm secure in my job, I'm secure in my life. I feel, um, a sense of contentment. Um, and also having had time during the pandemic to really reflect and be honest to who I am, and I'd never had the time to introspect my whole life, you know? I, for at least the last 20 years I've just been running, you know, from pillar to post. My job is not consistent. It is not 9:00 to 5:00. For people who think it's glamorous and it's easy, let me tell you, you do not know where your next check is coming from. You do not know where you're going to be the next three months. You can't plan, you know, holidays. You just have to kind of figure it out, and that's my job and that's the c- that's... The most consistent part about it is the inconsistency. So, um, I just reached this point in my life where I took a breath. I had six months at home, and I decided to introspect in my own life and be as honest as I could. And there were things that I've taken out of this book too, by the way, which didn't make it [laughs] which were too personal. But when I was writing it, I knew the only way to make it an interesting book, which if I'm writing a book, I wanna make it interesting. I didn't wanna bore myself. [laughs] But was to scratch beneath the surface. And it was very healing for me, and it was very cathartic for me. And, um, I came out on the other side, you know, sort of patting my younger self on the back and saying, "You know, you went through a lot, but it's okay. You came out alive, you know, you're standing on your feet, and you did all right."

  5. 8:01 – 11:08

    Journaling and reflection: making space for what you’ve buried

    1. RC

      Yeah. I mean, you really get that from the book. Um, you know, as a doctor, when I see patients, I see a lot of people who have never taken a pause on their life and never given themselves perspective. They're sort of inside their own head living their life. And over the last few years I've become a huge fan of journaling, both for myself-

    2. PJ

      Mm

    3. RC

      ... but also with many of my patients, because it gives us perspective. It allows us to commentate on our life, reflect on what's going on. And I've seen so many improvements in people with their mental health, anxiety, the way they see the world. And-

    4. PJ

      I would highly recommend it. I, even if you're not writing a memoir that, you know, you wanna publish or whatever, just documenting or writing about your life, like a journal. I mean, that's why so many people used to do it [laughs] and now we've just forgotten it because, you know, we're on Instagram or TikTok instead of, like, taking a second, um, to invest in ourselves. But I, after writing this book, and it's my first attempt at writing, I definitely recommend reflecting on your life. It, y- there are things that you've forgotten, you know, dusted under the carpet, that come out, and you don't even realize how much you needed to sort of re-look at them.

    5. RC

      You actually helped me reflect on my life, um, at, at, at quite a few points in the book, Priyanka. Um-

    6. PJ

      Oh, yay.

    7. RC

      You mentioned your childhood and the, the holidays you would go on with your, your parents. You'd get into a car, you'd be traveling, I think, to a hill station, and you'd be stopping and eating at the side and drinking. And it reminded me that, oh, wow, that's so fascinating, 'cause I used to... You're obviously doing that in India where you grew up. Myself, you know, my parents were born and brought up in India. They came here in the 1960s and 1970s. I'm born and brought up here. You know, every other summer we'd spend six weeks in Kolkata in India with my family and my cousins, which is one of the fondest times of my life, for sure. But the other summer we'd go around Europe, and in a car, and we'd ram it full of things, and we'd stop at the side. So that really made me reflect on that. Your dad wore Old Spice, as did my dad. I don't think I've ever thought about that for about 20 years, so that was a nice me-

    8. PJ

      You know, it was that generation of Indian men.

    9. RC

      [laughs]

    10. PJ

      I think it just was. You know, Old Spice was the jam. It made-

    11. RC

      [laughs]

    12. PJ

      It was, like, cool. [laughs]

    13. RC

      Yeah. It was, it's so, so it, it's a, it's amazing by you reflecting on your life, and I think a lot of the readers will get that, it will help them think about, you know... Well, you know what it is, Priyanka? You are, very few of us take the time to go through and document our entire life, what happened. And, and doing it, as you say, on this side of 35, you now can look back and... I mean, does it help you understand some of the choices you've made, how your childhood has influenced your decisions as an adult? You know, w- what, what, what were the key learnings from you from going through that process?

  6. 11:08 – 13:09

    Childhood empowerment and self-worth: being heard, validated, and encouraged to dream

    1. PJ

      Oh, absolutely. Um, you know, I, the one big one that I realized, um, while writing the book was how crucial my upbringing was to the woman I am today. The fact that I was raised by parents that empowered me to have thought, to have an opinion from when I was a kid, who used to allow me to hang out, you know, with them and their friends and be part of conversations, who never shamed me for wanting to move to America at 12 years old, who never shamed me for saying that, you know, um, "I want my name on the nameplate in the house as well, um, because I live here too," um, you know, when I was five or six years old. Um, and I realized when I was writing the book, I was like, the fact that I had the confidence at 17 to treat that pageant, the Miss India pageant, like just a competition, not- Even think about the gravity of what it meant. For me, it was like if I was thrown into a dance competition, I would win. If I was thrown into an elocution competition, I would win. Like, I was just a competitive girl in school. But it was because they gave me the, my parents gave me, um, the greatest weapon I could ever have, was a sense of self, self-worth, self-confidence. And knowing that even if I failed, it doesn't mean the failure of me, it just means the failure of a thing I tried. I could try something else. And that comes from a sense of self-of self-confidence in yourself, and that was a big learning. Um, when I finished the manuscript for the first time, I was like, "I don't think I would've been able to achieve half of these things if I didn't have the upbringing I had." And I would implore every parent to give your children the gift of individuality. You know, the gift to have their own dreams and not yours.

  7. 13:09 – 15:40

    The nameplate story: a childhood moment that reinforced belonging and agency

    1. RC

      Yeah. That was one of my favorite parts of the book, when you told that story. That you, your parents I think were in the army, and you'd-

    2. PJ

      Mm-hmm

    3. RC

      ... move regularly, and there'd always be a nameplate on the door wherever you guys went for your mom and your dad. And you know, in fact, why don't, why don't you tell that story rather than me trying to tell you what I read? It was, it, I think it really epitomizes everything you've just said.

    4. PJ

      Totally. And this is kindergarten, so what, like five?

    5. RC

      Yeah.

    6. PJ

      Um, and we'd move to a new place and there was a nameplate outside. All the military houses would have it, so you knew leftenant colonel blah blah, whatever, major blah blah. And, but, but my, both my parents were doctors in the Indian army, so it said my dad's name and his designation, and then my mom's name and her designation. Um, and I remember when he was putting it up, I was like, "Okay. Well, why isn't my name up there? Don't I live in this house as well?" Five years old. And my dad just looked at me and he says, "Thank you for pointing out that mistake. You're right. You do live in this house. We will change the nameplate." He didn't laugh at me, did not shame me, but told me I was right, and changed the nameplate, and it said, "Miss Priyanka 'Mimi' Chopra, upper KG," for kindergarten. [laughs]

    7. RC

      [laughs] I mean, a, a, a fun story, right? But actually very powerful. And, and you know, if I reflect on my own parenting, and I think I, I'll give my wife a huge amount of credit here, because I think she's always been one to treat the kids from a young age with respect, like adults. Like, if they've got something to say, let's listen, let's validate it. And I think a lot of families-

    8. PJ

      Mm-hmm

    9. RC

      ... I think parents are always trying to do the best they can, but I think sometimes they think, "Oh, it's just kids, you know? What do they know? [laughs] Oh, that's a bit funny." But no, actually, that can then ingrain a pattern which plays out in your entire life, because you think actually-

    10. PJ

      Absolutely

    11. RC

      ... yeah. And, and, and I-

    12. PJ

      You second-guess yourself.

    13. RC

      Yeah.

    14. PJ

      As an adult, you'll start second-guessing yourself. I don't second-gue- guess myself, mostly. I mean, of course I have times of insecurity, but if I'm thrown into something, I have the confidence to be able to figure it out, even if I'm second-guessing myself. And I think that came from definitely that upbringing of validating my feelings and my opinions.

  8. 15:40 – 17:50

    Adapting to change: “be like water” and turning moving into adventure

    1. RC

      2020 has shown everyone around the world that, or re-emphasized to everyone that the only constant in life is change. And when I've seen interviews with you before, when I've, when I've been reading your book, it's clear that you had to deal with change regularly growing up. Things rarely stayed the same for long periods of time. Is that part of the secret, do you think, to your success? That you know how to deal with adversity, you know how to deal with change. Nothing seems to phase you, no matter what you do or where you go.

    2. PJ

      Maybe. Um, maybe it, what it has to do with, you know, adapt- adaptability and the fact that I can adapt is because I moved around so much physically. But I think it's more a state of mind. Um, I think I learned that very young. Um, my dad made, made traveling into a sense of adventure for me. Um, because we used to move every two years, I had a fit one time with my dad. I was like, "I don't wanna leave my best friend. I don't wanna go away." And you know, this is like... And he said to me that, "When you go to a new place, you have a blank slate. No one knows your failures of where you came from. So if you were in a class that you're not doing well, or if a teacher doesn't like you, or, you can change whoever you wanna be when you go to a new place." And it was such a sense of power for a child. And he said to me, he was like, "Be like water. Water can be as powerful as a waterfall, and can make holes in rocks over time. And it can be as still as a teacup and provide comfort. Be like water. Be able to be, use it for whatever strength it has, but also be able to adapt." And that sense of adventure I definitely think has made me a lot less fearful and a lot more curious than I think a lot of people, for sure.

  9. 17:50 – 19:55

    When “moving on” becomes avoidance: hitting a wall, learning acceptance, and letting feelings be felt

    1. RC

      Is there a potential downside there? And what I mean by that is, if we're constantly moving on and are able to forget what's happened, and then move on to the next thing, and move on to the next thing, does that sometimes lead to a situation, or, or do you think it could do, where actually you don't spend... I don't mean you. One-

    2. PJ

      Mm-hmm

    3. RC

      ... doesn't spend time in one place to self-reflect and observe because the, the default is- Actually, you know what? I just wanna move on and, and make myself busy and jump into the next thing

    4. PJ

      Probably. I did that many, many times, um, for a really long time. Um, and that worked for me till it didn't. And I hit a wall, too. Um, and that wall lasted a good two years, and it was probably because that was what my attitude was, you know? When I was sad, I would just pick up and move on. If I was upset, I would just pick up and move on and not really deal with my emotions. Um, and I was, until I was forced to deal with them, just 'cause I was in a really dark place, and I was stuck, and I i- felt emotionally vacant because I suddenly couldn't deal with all the things that were probably, you know, under this rug which was bustling. I just kept going into the next thing. And then I had to sit down and feel. I had to feel all the feelings. I had to deal with, um, all my emotions, and then I came out on the other side way stronger and way more, um, with the ability to compartmentalize and balance both. Now I don't see myself as someone who, um, runs away from issues, but I don't see myself as someone who confronts them, either. I'm okay with them. I have acceptance of everything that goes on. I can, you can have frustrations, you can be sad, but I think acceptance is really important. And, um, accepting whatever you're feeling and allowing yourself to feel it.

  10. 19:55 – 23:29

    Grief and burnout after her father’s death: work as coping and the book as therapy

    1. RC

      Yeah. We need time to feel, don't we? We need space. We need sometimes to stop. And, you know, as I think about your story, um, and I think about 2013, for me, was a pivotal moment in my life. My father, who I had, uh, cared for with my mum and brother for 15 years while Dad was sick, he died in March 2013. My way of dealing with that was complete emotional turmoil. I, I gave myself a lot of solitude. I didn't throw myself into my work. I withdrew from my work and went inwards at that point, which has led to multiple learnings and then literally changed the trajectory and the path that I've taken with my career. I know your father also died in 2013, but you took a different approach, which of course it's a, it's a unique experience. Is that something... I know how significant your dad was to you. Um, is it something that you think it took a few years to actually take the time to go and process what happened? Um, do you feel you have processed it, and has writing the book helped you? In some ways, h- has writing the book been a form of therapy, I guess, for you?

    2. PJ

      Um, I, I think so. I think it was very healing for me to actually write, write about a lot of things in the book that I've not, never addressed, never spoken about, forget publicly, but even to myself. Um, and yes, I was very, very, very close to my dad. He was my largest, biggest cheerleader, and I don't think I came to terms with it at all when he passed. And I'm so sorry to hear about your dad. You know, losing a parent is, is insane. It, it, as natural as it is supposed to be, it's just strange when you see people who are your superheroes, you know, um, be brought down like that. It's just, it's really hard. And it, it really, for me, I did not know how to deal with it. I, I went back to work four days after my dad passed. Um, didn't stop working till the pandemic last year. [laughs] But, um, but I was forced to, actually. When I hit that wall, it had a lot to do with the grief that I had not processed, and I had just moved countries, and I had just, um, you know, uh, got out of a relationship, and I had no friends, and I had just moved to America. I was on a show. I was working 15-hour days, uh, for six days a week. It was just all a lot and, um, at that time, I withdrew, too, like you said you did. I withdrew from friends. I withdrew from family. I withdrew from work. I, I was a zombie and, you know. Um, thankfully, after having put in so many years into my job, you know, it didn't affect my work as much as it could have because I had experience enough, you know, muscle memory enough to be able to go in and do it. But I was not in a good place, and it lasted a while. And I think that I didn't seek help in terms of therapy, whereas maybe I should have. I didn't seek help in terms of ask- speaking to friends or family. Um, I dealt with it on my own, so I think, yeah, the book kind of was my therapy, um, of dealing with it 'cause I never really spoke about it to anyone.

  11. 23:29 – 26:31

    “I miss the person I used to be”: recognizing depression-like patterns and choosing a way back

    1. RC

      That, that time in your life in 2017 which you, which you detail, uh, in Unfinished, there was a bit in that section which, you know, I stopped and I, I underlined it because you said, "I miss the person I used to be." And I thought that was really quite profound in, in terms of how we can think about ourselves. You know, what happened then? How did you, you know, how did you get outside your own head? H- what happened to help you realize, "Hey, God, this is not me. This isn't, this isn't w- what I used to do. What's happened to me?" Because it's very powerful, that section, when you write about that time in your life.

    2. PJ

      Well, thank you. Um, it was multiple things. Um- I was feeling, um, very isolated. Choosing isolation, which is not me. I'm a very peoples person. I love human beings. Humans are my favorite. Um, and I suddenly didn't want that. I suddenly was in, um, a sort of a routine of doing the same thing. I wasn't taking care of myself at all. I would stay in bed whenever I didn't have work. Um, I was unhealthy. I felt unhealthy. I, um, was not being able to be ins- forget inspired, but even be... Um, I have very high standards of myself when I work. I expect extremely good results when I'm working. [laughs] As, as a person, I'm flawed and I'm okay with all of that, you know? But when it comes to my job, I, um, I expect a lot from myself, and I wasn't hitting that according to me. And, um, I think I just, I realized that I would lose the career I'd worked so hard on, I'd worked so hard for, if I didn't take stock of myself. And, um, it was a choice. It was a choice of, am I going to be seduced by my sorrow? Am I going to allow that blanket of, you know, wallowing in self-pity to make me feel like I want to stay there and lose everything that I've built? Or am I gonna take stock of my life and not let that go because I've worked so hard for it? And I think that was my i- impetus, is that if I wanted to have the job and keep growing with the kind of excellence and trajectory that I've had so far, then I'm gonna have to do it. I can't just arrive at work and not be the best that I'm expected to be. Um, th- what I'm hi- that's what I'm hired for. That's my job, and I wasn't being able to do it, and that, like, really kicked my ass.

  12. 26:31 – 29:07

    Breaking toxic routines with tiny shifts: environment changes, spontaneity, and surprising yourself

    1. RC

      In the book you, you explain how at that time it wasn't like a complete overhaul where you decided one day, "Right, I'm gonna change," and then you wake up the next morning. It sounds to me as though there was a couple of small things you mentioned. On the way back from shooting, you'd, you'd, let's say instead of going straight home you'd meet up with a friends. Or, you know, you'd change the location of where you would be. And I think that's very powerful. For, for all of us, no matter what we're trying to change in life, we don't realize how powerful the environment it is. And if we get used to certain behaviors in a certain room, even just going to the next room at the same time can be very powerful. So I wonder if you could explain what were those things that actually... Look, people are struggling at the moment. We know, you know, people's mental health is declining. Lots of people are struggling with the state of the world. And some people feel it has to be this complete overhaul. But I, but what I got from your story is that it was small changes that really started to make the big difference.

    2. PJ

      It always is the small s- small changes. If you wanna get somewhere in life, it's really not the overhaul at all. It doesn't have to be you need to change your entire life, and tomorrow it's gonna be different. It's always just keep moving. Always just take a step. And that's what I kind of did when I was stuck, and it lasted a good two years, you know? I, um, I started doing little things, which was, like, changing my routine. Changing your patterns. Like, even right now specifically, we're all at home, right? We all have a pattern, like we're gonna do our Zoom calls for this time to this time, and then we have dinner, and then we watch a movie, or then... You know, it's, w- we have that routine of what we're going to do, and when that routine starts becoming toxic and that's what's holding you back, that's what I started doing. I changed my routine. Instead of being, you know, coming back home and sitting on that couch and watching TV and, you know, going to bed, I said, "All right, I'm g- just gonna meet a friend for a drink," or take my dog out for a walk or not sit on that couch, and maybe sit on the dining table and do something else. You know, just sort of being, um, spontaneous allows you to remember the person that you may have been that kind of had faith in wanting to do different things or be confident. And, you know, it just, it helped me sort of break the clutches of, of what I was feeling just by being, you know, surprising my own self by doing things that I may probably have not done.

  13. 29:07 – 36:39

    Living with critique: body comments, online negativity, and whose opinions matter

    1. RC

      I mean, during that time you, you, you paint a very powerful story, which I think many people will be surprised to read. That, you know, you'd sit by yourself, you'd stay up in bed late snacking, watching TV. The sort of habits that many of us do when we're feeling low and we don't want to engage in the world. But I think it's very powerful for someone as well-known and as successful as you to share that even you suffer like any human being and have those tendencies, I think is a very, very powerful message. When we show vulnerability ourselves, we actually inspire that vulnerability in, in the people around us or the people who look up to us. But you also mention at that time that you ended up putting on a bit of weight, and people were quite mean to you, or some people were online. And it always fascinates me this, is how do people really feel about that? Because sometimes we say, "Oh, it doesn't bother me what other people think," uh, when actually it really does. And I'm interested for you, when people are saying things like that, when you're feeling low anyway, what does that do to you?

    2. PJ

      I mean, of course it's terrible. Everyone hates it. I mean, on- But my job is, like- B- basically my job is getting critiqued, right? Like, I, I create a movie, you watch it, and you- two minutes later you're just like, "Ah, it was terrible," or, "Oh, it was great," or whatever. Like, my job is literally everything I put out there is for critiquing. But me as a person is not my job. I am not an elected official. Like, I am, I am not the job. So to, um... it is always painful, you know, when you read online people who are sitting behind the anonymity of their computer who just wanna sort of stir the pot and don't have any research or context to anything that they're saying. Um, and, you know. But over the last 20 years I've kind of developed a thick hide, um, where I've been able to... So this is the way I do it, okay? I, I told myself, and again, this is not an old thought, this is not like I o- didn't always know this. I've, I've come around d- this discovery recently in the last five, six years. I think maybe maturity, maybe growing up. I don't know what it is. But, um, what I realized is that if we give so much credence to online negativity, those are people that are giving you their opinions because they have the ability to do it right now with, you know, social media being what it is, but it is up to us to really see if their opinion matters. Is it going to affect your job? Is it going to affect your family? W- what is it affecting? And if it's only affecting our pride or our, you know, sense of self, then why are we giving these people so much importance? What I do is I take the opinion of my family, my friends, my team, my core circle, and I- if they say something, I hear them and I understand it. But not the millions of people for who, you know, I'm dinner table conversation. Um, which doesn't mean it won't hurt, but after a few days of, like, feeling bad about it or whatever, I've usually been able to come out on the healthier side by realizing that, you know, the opinions don't affect my job so then they shouldn't affect me. But, um, but when it comes to my friends and family, like, of course, their opinions will always have more credence than anybody else.

    3. RC

      Yeah. I mean, thank you for sharing that. I think, you know, something I, I used to struggle with a lot, but I've certainly feel a lot more calm about it now. And I feel, you know, I feel if there's something is bothering me with the social media comments, it's about self-reflecting for me and going, "Okay, is the reason you're reacting or getting het up because you're knackered or you've not slept so you're quite emotionally react- you know, volatile at the moment? Or is there a bit of truth in there? Or is it, is it preying on an, an insecurity of mine?" And I've found that's a really nice way of giving myself a bit of empowerment over the process that, "Oh, there's something I can work on here, 'cause I am a bit insecure about this potentially." But, but, but I, but as I reflect on what you're saying and, and as I think about this, I think, Priyanka, that, you know what? As a guy, I'm not gonna get it about my weight [laughs] . I'm not gonna get it really about my appearance. Whereas for a woman, particularly a famous woman like yourself in the public eye, you know, anything goes, right? People feel it's okay to comment about a woman's appearance and their weight and the way that they look. I mean, has that been troublesome during your career? Is that something you think is changing? You're obviously someone who really speaks up for, you know, equality, diversity, women's rights. Um, you know, how do you look at that these days?

    4. PJ

      Um, I feel like it's unfortunately something that we've ourselves created, right? Like, the standard of beauty of what women should look like, or even for guys what, you know, you should look like or, um... And that standard of beauty's reflected in the entertainment business tremendously. But it's changing and, um, there's a large conversation around that change. And to me, honestly, I haven't, um... I'm a- I'm very realistic about that, um, my weight side of it for me. Like, every year after Diwali and Christmas, you know, um, I've definitely put on a few pounds, and that's normal for anyone else and I'm not ashamed of that. I work towards the summer, I work out, and then I'm back to my bikini body, and then the holidays come about again, and then you put on a little bit of we- more weight, you know? And it's fine. Um, I'm someone who's had a, a balanced sort of relationship with my body, but I know there are a lot of women out there that, um, you know, it's, it's, uh, much harder for, for them because that standard of beauty has sort of been ingrained with, you know, what beautiful should look like. And, um, I've been sort of pr- I, I've been lucky to not have, you know, crumbled underneath that pressure, because I think I had really strong role models, um, in my family, the women in my family. You know, with a lot of sense of self and, um, a sense of confidence. And, um, you know, I kind of am, I'm okay with the way I look. And to me it was just really amu- amusing, and at the same time when I was feeling really dark at that time, when I was in a sad place, it was, I was like, "Wow, people will say anything and do anything for attention." It's crazy. You have to take away the power from the trolls, otherwise if I started, like, giving importance to that, I would not be able to live.

    5. RC

      One thing that I've loved in my, uh, deep dive into you, and I've-

    6. PJ

      [laughs]

    7. RC

      ... you know, I, I've been, um- [laughs] I've been watching videos, I've been reading your book, I've been trying to learn as much as I can in preparation for talking to you. And it's been a lot of fun, I've gotta say, so thank you-

    8. PJ

      [laughs]

    9. RC

      ... for that. I've really, I've really enjoyed it.

    10. PJ

      Well, thank you for doing the research.

    11. RC

      No, it's, it-

    12. PJ

      'Cause a lot of people don't. [laughs]

  14. 36:39 – 49:06

    Identity, bullying, and representation: why seeing “brown” leads in mainstream media matters

    1. RC

      Oh, well, no, it's, it's my pleasure. I feel, you know, I've got the opportunity of speaking to you for up to an hour, and I feel it's respectful to you to have done my research so that we can, you know, I can have a respectful and authentic conversation with you. But o- one thing I've... I think why I really like this is because it's in contrast to me. So you've always, from what I can tell, been very, oh, I, I should, be careful how I word this. I'm not saying it's in contrast to me, but you've been very proud to be Indian, right? And it seems as though you're, you're very proud, wherever you go, that that is, that is who you are. That is, you know, your nationality. It's how you were brought up. And you spent a lot of your time growing up in India. I know you came to America for a few years, uh, in your teenage years. I'm someone, like many, um, second-generation immigrants, I hate terms like that, but I guess that is what I would be defined as is, you know, my mum and dad came here from India, and I'm born and brought up here. People like me often have a real conflict of identity, particularly in our teenage years, where we, you know, we have, uh, all our Indian, uh, cultures and practices at home, and then we've got our Western friends at school, and there's this real clash of cultures. And it takes, you know, often in our teenage years, we almost, it's not that we're embarrassed to be Indian, it, but it's, we almost want to suppress that down so we can fit in with the world around us. And it's when we get a bit older and more secure in ourselves, like now I am so proud to be of Indian background. You know, I'm so proud to actually talk about these things and share these things. Whereas I don't think in my teenage years I would openly do it because I would be scared of being judged. Now, how does that play out for you? Because you, you know, you've been born and brought up in In- India, yet you've gone around the world, you've been in America, you've conquered the Indian film industry. Now you're taking on Hollywood. And I'm interested, how has your experience been, um, as someone who's not from America natively, yet now has a home and a house there? You know, is there anything from that you can, you can share? Because I, I'm, I'm interested, where does that strong secureness come from? 'Cause I certainly didn't have it.

    2. PJ

      I didn't have it when I was in high school, at all. Um, I was bullied because of the fact that I was Indian. I was, um-

    3. RC

      In America, this is?

    4. PJ

      In America, this is. Uh, this is, I was in America from, you know, nine, eighth, ninth, 10th, 11th grade. So very formative years of my life. But I was made to feel extremely different and, you know, sort of aware of my ethnicity. Um, and, and I, I would try not to be Indian at all either. I would like to, I was embarrassed as well.

    5. RC

      Yeah.

    6. PJ

      Um, exactly probably how you're talking. It was just confusing to me because I was made to feel like I was different and-

    7. RC

      Yeah

    8. PJ

      ... I, I needed to fit in, and that the only way to fit in would be to be American and speak like that and dress like that and not be Indian and not talk about Diwali and not eat my Indian achars and all the things, right? Um, and as a teenager, I felt that too. But when I started working in the entertainment industry, and I started ex- specifically when I came to America and I started looking for work in America, and, um, I kind of figured it out why, w- why we felt that way, why brown kids, and so many of us around the world, right? Um, outside of India, there is such a large South Asian population, um, in Britain, in everywhere, in every part of the world. Because of colonization, a lot of us moved for o- opportunities, a lot of us were moved. So I realize that we are such a, we are one-fifth of the world's population, right? But think about pop culture and seeing the representation of ourselves in pop culture. We only saw ourselves represented in Indian culture, right? So only the Indians who knew Indian, do movies, and that was, we were only stuck to our community. Who, who did we see in, in, at least in American pop culture where I was growing up? It was just Apu in The Sim- The Simpsons. I never saw a brown girl on TV or the lead of a mainstream show or on the cover of a magazine. So when I was told that, "You know, you're different and you're weird," I believed it, 'cause I didn't see anyone like me at, as, as a teenager. And that became such a big impetus for me when I joined entertainment, that I want to see brown people in mainstream entertainment, in English language mainstream entertainment, as leads. Not as a check in the box, not as an important character, but as leads, as running the show. Because that's what's g- going to normalize for young girls out there, is when you see me or someone who looks like me playing Holi on Jimmy Fallon. When you're like, "Oh, Holi is a cool thing. Jimmy's playing it," it normalizes who we are. And we have not had the opportunity to do that, and our generation needs to do it.

    9. RC

      Man. Hear, hear. I, I, I agree. I, I, I sort of second what you say so much. And Priyanka, you said that about children, and my daughter's eight, and she was saying yesterday, said, "So Daddy, how many podcasts have you got this week?" I said, "Well, I've got three, darling, this week." She goes, "Oh, who are you talking to tomorrow?" I said, "Well, it's this lady. She's called Priyanka." She said, "Well, what does she do?" I said, "Well, well she's, she's an actor, she's a musician, she's a writer, she's a producer." And it was so great to be able to show her that, hey, you know what? That's somebody who kind of looks like you in terms of your skin color and your hair color, and she's not sticking in one box. She's doing anything she wants. And it's- I think it is inspiring when people see, particularly because you're a woman as well, and, and I'm aware that we have lived and still do in a very male dominant world, so I think doing what you're doing is so inspiring. Did you realize how inspiring it was when you were doing it, or has that come from feedback from people telling you, "You make me think this is now possible"?

    10. PJ

      That's absolutely not the reason why I do it. I don't... I'm not someone who's looking to inspire people. I'm looking to change something, not just for myself. But I feel like that is where I'm going to be of most use in this world, is if I can contribute towards the arts in a way that has pushed the goalpost for us.

    11. RC

      Yeah.

    12. PJ

      Um, and only because when I came here five, six years ago, when I did my TV show Quantico, I was the first South Asian lead ever of an American TV show. I mean, that's absurd to me. And, and unfortunately [laughs] , Hollywood is predominantly global entertainment. It is consumed everywhere, right? English language entertainment. Um, and how is it? It, it just blew my mind that the concept of a Brown person being a lead in a mainstream show, not a genre movie and not an independent movie, but, like, a mainstream million, multi-million dollar show or movie, it just didn't exist. And that was my impetus. I- it's not for, you know, m- the byproduct and the bonus of it is hopefully young girls or boys or immigrants that come into America will not feel so alone. I know if I was in high school and I saw maybe, I don't know, some TV show of Buffy the Vamp- Vampire Slayer may have been, you know, a Brown girl, I would have felt a sense of self maybe. I wouldn't have felt so isolated in those hallways in my high school. And I'm hoping, because pop culture is consumed so large, I'm hoping with other people, like The White Tiger, for example, my movie, it's an all-Indian star cast, and it's the number one movie worldwide on the largest streaming platform in the world. That's an all-Indian star cast. To me, it's historic. And I'm so happy to be able to be at the helm of that because I know it will change things for people like your daughter to see themselves represented in, in normal situations-

    13. RC

      Yeah

    14. PJ

      ... you know, in, in powerful jobs, in, in whatever they consume.

    15. RC

      I, I, yeah, I, I completely agree, and I think people who've never experienced that actually just have no idea what that feels like. You know, my-

    16. PJ

      I think that's what it is. There's so f- like, it's people who haven't experienced it.

    17. RC

      They don't. You know, I, I remember as a kid, you know, like, as, as in many Asian immigrant families, the kind of three options available to you are medicine, law, or engineering. That is your reality. Um, you know, I became a doctor. I said to people, "You know what?" In some ways, it's no big deal because all I was surrounded by were doctors. That was my norm, so of course, that is one of the things that I ended up doing. Um, but, but this, this goes so far, what you say. I mean, I, I've said this a couple times on the podcast before. I checked just before we started. In the UK, in the top 50 podcasts at the moment, I'm the only non-white host in the top 50.

    18. PJ

      Wow.

    19. RC

      So there's, there's... You know, which is, which is incredible in 2021 that we're still saying that. Um, I didn't realize how powerful this stuff is. I've, I've just been following my own path and my own career. Other people send me messages saying, "Hey, hey, Rangan, listen, you know, it's so great seeing you be an author and a doctor and a TV presenter, this," and it makes me think I'm gonna try and go for one of those things now. Like, people younger than me-

    20. PJ

      Exactly

    21. RC

      ... and you think, and it gives you a buzz, right? You go, "Oh, wow." And you must get this all the time from people.

    22. PJ

      I mean, I, I really just think that it, for the ones who have been given this opportunity, like you, like me, it is our job to make the table larger. It is our responsibility to bring to fore how important representation is, and I swear to God I did not know this till I started looking-

    23. RC

      Yeah

    24. PJ

      ... for a job outside of my country. I didn't think about it as much.

    25. RC

      Yeah.

    26. PJ

      When I was in high school, I didn't even think about it. But when I came back to America and I was like, "Wait a minute. This is not what I'm looking for. I'm not a check in the box. Why can't my dream be like everyone else's dream?" And, you know, I'm a bold girl. [laughs] I like breaking down doors, so I went in there charging. Um, and that's going to be our responsibility, you know? People, just seeing the fact that you're doing what you're doing, and other people who are sort of South Asian and saying, "You know, I'm going to make sure that our next generation doesn't inherit those, just those three options." Because we're living in, um, you know, in a, in a time of information. We're living in, we have so much information that an idea can become a career. You just have to ha- find a gap in the market. What is it that you wanna do? It doesn't have to be just doctor, engineer, or lawyer, 'cause even that was my options, too. I was studying engineering. And then my life just pivoted into the arts, and I realized that I could do that. I could find business in that. I could find opportunities in that, and that could become a vocation.

    27. RC

      Yeah.

    28. PJ

      And, and I, I would love to open up that world of possibilities to parents specifically, um, South Asian parents who, who feel like, you know, instability when their kids sort of, you know- ... pivot from the, the stable sort of jobs. But this is, this is a time and a generation where ideas are present, and, you know, we should, we need to let our kids sort of dream.

    29. RC

      Yeah. I mean, if we had more time, I'd go into White Tiger. I would definitely recommend everyone listening to this or watching it on YouTube, go and watch White Tiger on Netflix. It is fabulous. Y- you mean, I know you're a producer in it, and you're an actor in it. It's, it's incredible, and to see this all-Indian cast on this mainstream global platform was incredible. So, huge congratulations on that.

    30. PJ

      Thank you.

  15. 49:06 – 54:40

    Redefining success: contentment, purpose, and being human behind the public image

    1. RC

      Um, I mean, as we start to wind down the conversation, I, I think that, you know, I think about success a lot these days and what success means, and society has a certain definition of success, which is money, fame-

    2. PJ

      Mm

    3. RC

      ... um, you know, uh, celebrity, uh, riches, nice house, going on holidays, you know, marrying a pop star, right? Whatever those things are, the, and, and what, what... a- and many kids, and many, many of us, actually, are, are, are convinced that that is what success means. You are someone who has actually pretty much ticked off every single box of how society typically defines success. That's why I'm interested, as someone who has done all that, what does being successful mean to you?

    4. PJ

      I think successful is definitely individual to everyone. I mean, my version of success just happens to be in the public eye, so you know it, um, you know? But there are so many incredibly successful people out there. Um, I think success is really being able to wake up in the morning and, you know, saying that, "Am I excited about going to work? Am I excited about the day that I'm going to lead? Am I, am I..." When you put your head to rest on your pillow at night, to say that, "I feel calm and I feel like, you know, I'm enjoying the meal that I'm eating." I feel like when you have contentment in your heart, that is the best testament of success, and that d- has nothing to do with your bank account. It has nothing to do with your holidays or who you marry. It really has to do with a state of mind. Um, I believe having a sense of purpose and being able to be, um, successful in that purpose is, to me, success. And my sense of purpose is, you know, contributing to the arts.

    5. RC

      Do you have contentment in your heart?

    6. PJ

      I actually really do. Um, I think, you know, this book was very healing for me, and the reason why I could scratch beneath the surface the way I did was because I'm in a secure, content place, because I'm not haunted by my fears of my childhood or my past. You know, I'm, I'm in a little bit of a, I'm on solid ground, and I think that, to me, is the definition of success.

    7. RC

      For somebody who's listening to you who is in a bad place at the moment and is struggling in their life, and they think, "You know, I can't relate to you because you are, you know, y- you're wealthy, you're famous, you, your life doesn't seem the same as mine," do you have any words that you would potentially share with them?

    8. PJ

      I think a lot of people think that, you know, I'm a public person or, you know, my life looks bright and shiny because, um, because I'm a celebrity or, I hate that word, but whatever. [laughs] Um, but I have... There are human beings behind every s- person that you see, and I think a lot of people forget that sometimes, that, you know, I bleed the same red, and I have the same heart, and failures affect me in the same way. I just don't have the luxury to show it because then it becomes public news, which is, you know, exposes me even more. But, um, I think, you know, everybody has their own issues, but what we need to recognize people are as humans and know that, you know, eventually, um, everyone bleeds, and allow people to be vulnerable, and including public people. [laughs]

    9. RC

      Do you feel lighter since you wrote the book?

    10. PJ

      I think because I was lighter, I wrote the book. You know what I mean? Like, I think because I had reached a place where I wasn't afraid of my journey, um, I could write the book. But I do feel healed in many ways after writing the book, and I feel a sense of achievement. I was terrified of writing a book. Um, but it was, it was, uh, it, it was healing, definitely.

    11. RC

      Priyanka, I think you, you've done such incredible work throughout your career. You are inspirational to many people all around the globe. I, I, as I said at the start, I honestly think it's a wonderful read. I think people will find it illuminating. I think they'll learn about themselves. They'll learn another side to you that they probably don't know about.

    12. PJ

      [laughs]

    13. RC

      And so, you know, I wish you all the best with, um, you know, trying to launch in four countries, four time zones at the same time. Uh, I don't know what your doctor's saying to you about your sleep and your circadian rhythm at this time, but, uh, stay well and look after yourself because that's pretty grueling. And, um, yeah, good luck for everything you do in the future.

    14. PJ

      Thank you so much, Rangan. This was such a great conversation.

    15. RC

      If that conversation resonated with you, here is another incredibly powerful one that I really think you're going to enjoy. Give it a click.

    16. RC

      If you actually went to the happiness gym several times a week, you will actually have a happier life, right? And the happiness gym is very straightforward. It's a set of skills, hmm, that you need to practice

Episode duration: 54:40

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