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Dr Rangan ChatterjeeDr Rangan Chatterjee

The Shocking Reason You're Tired, Lost & Doubting Yourself | Esther Perel

This episode is brought to you by: Save 30% OFF your Ketone IQ subscription, PLUS you’ll get a free gift with your second shipment— Fun stuff like a free 6 pack, KetoneIQ merch, and more. Go to https://ketone.com/livemore to get yours! Get 20% off your first VIVOBAREFOOT order, visit: https://bit.ly/3FLdvBa Try the NEW WHOOP today at https://join.whoop.com/livemore AG1 - Get 1 year's FREE VITAMIN D and 5 FREE TRAVEL PACKS visit: https://bit.ly/43FwxQl Are we expecting too much from our jobs - and is it costing us our health, relationships and happiness? This week I’m delighted to welcome back someone who is regarded as one of the most insightful and original voices on modern relationships, the psychotherapist Esther Perel. Fluent in nine languages, Esther has her own therapy practice in New York City, serves as an organisational consultant for multiple Fortune 500 companies and is ALSO the author of the New York Times Bestselling books, ‘Mating in Captivity’ and ‘The State of Affairs’. Although Esther is probably best known for her teachings and wisdom on our romantic relationships, more recently she has turned her attention to our work relationships. The occasion for this appearance on my podcast is to celebrate the release of her brand new 100-question card game designed to transform your work culture – one story and one relationship at a time. In this thought-provoking conversation, we explore how our expectations of the workplace have shifted dramatically – and why it’s creating both opportunity and strain. Esther shares that in the past, work was primarily about survival, duty and financial stability. But today, many of us are looking to our jobs to provide identity, belonging, fulfilment and even self-worth. We discuss: • Esther’s four key pillars of healthy workplace relationships – trust, belonging, recognition and collective resilience – and why these needs mirror those in our romantic lives • How unresolved workplace issues can lead to emotional exhaustion, poor health choices and a reduced capacity to connect at home • How our increasingly digital lives are reducing the everyday social skills we need to connect, communicate and collaborate • How our personal relationship history – our “unofficial CV” – shows up at work and influences how we handle authority, conflict, feedback and boundaries • Why managing conflict well can deepen connection – and how curiosity and honest self-reflection can transform how we show up in all areas of life Throughout our conversation, Esther offers compassion and clarity, breaking down complex emotional patterns into simple, human truths we can all relate to – and, most importantly, act on. She encourages us to approach work relationships not as transactional, but as relational, inviting us to bring the same level of curiosity, empathy, and accountability that we would bring to any meaningful connection. At a time when so many of us are feeling isolated or overwhelmed, Esther’s advice shows that even small shifts in how we relate, listen and respond can spark meaningful change at work, with our families and ourselves. I hope you enjoy listening. #feelbetterlivemore ---- Connect with Esther: https://www.estherperel.com https://www.estherperel.com/podcast https://www.instagram.com/EstherPerelOfficial https://twitter.com/EstherPerel https://www.tiktok.com/@estherperel_official https://www.facebook.com/esther.perel Esther’s card game: Where Should We Begin? At Work https://game.estherperel.com/products/where-should-we-begin-at-work #feelbetterlivemore #feelbetterlivemorepodcast ------- Order MAKE CHANGE THAT LASTS. US & Canada version https://amzn.to/3RyO3SL, UK version https://amzn.to/3Kt5rUK ----- Follow Dr Chatterjee at: Website: https://drchatterjee.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drchatterjee Twitter: https://twitter.com/drchatterjeeuk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drchatterjee/ Newsletter: https://drchatterjee.com/subscription DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

Dr. Rangan ChatterjeehostEsther Perelguest
May 21, 20251h 16mWatch on YouTube ↗

CHAPTERS

  1. Work’s meaning has changed: from job to identity, belonging, and purpose

    Esther Perel explains that modern workers bring needs to work (belonging, identity, meaning) that used to be met through community and religion. This shift collides with rapid workplace change—remote work, distributed teams, technology, and AI—forcing constant adaptation amid uncertainty.

  2. How work problems spill into home life—and into health behaviors

    Perel and Chatterjee unpack the bidirectional flow between work stress and home stress. They connect workplace conflict and feeling undervalued to irritability, reduced capacity for empathy, and compensatory behaviors like sugar, alcohol, and scrolling.

  3. Why perks can’t fix toxic workplace relationships

    Perel argues that benefits like free food or gyms don’t compensate for miserable work relationships. Relationships—once dismissed as “soft skills”—now directly shape culture, performance, and retention.

  4. Generational contrast: duty-and-family meaning vs self-fulfillment meaning

    Chatterjee uses his immigrant father’s experience to highlight an older model of work rooted in duty, sacrifice, and providing for family. Perel reframes this as not “extreme” but a common pattern where meaning comes from what work enables outside work.

  5. The ‘identity economy’ and the rise of expectations at work

    Perel describes Western work as shifting from production/service to an “identity economy,” where work becomes a primary vehicle for self-development. Reduced religiosity and community, later partnering/family formation, and individualism funnel social needs into the workplace.

  6. From stability to freedom: loose threads, constant choice, and the burden of authenticity

    The conversation contrasts cultures emphasizing certainty and stability with those emphasizing freedom and mobility. Perel explains how constant options increase decision-load and anxiety—authenticity demands self-knowledge that’s difficult, especially when young.

  7. Social atrophy: how contactless living erodes relationship skills

    Perel broadens beyond communication: people have fewer unstructured social-learning experiences (like free play), and more frictionless, app-mediated life. This weakens experimentation, conflict tolerance, attention, and real-time conversation skills—then shows up at work.

  8. The illusion of the ‘perfect choice’ vs making choices meaningful

    They discuss how modern systems sell the idea that a perfect decision exists, increasing anxiety and dissatisfaction. Chatterjee introduces the reframing: it’s less about the right decision and more about making the decision right.

  9. Four pillars of healthy workplace relationships: trust, belonging, recognition, resilience

    Perel introduces the four dimensions identified through her collaboration with Culture Amp, combining relational expertise with large-scale survey data. These pillars mirror intimate relationships, but appear differently at work and can be strengthened intentionally.

  10. Are we expecting too much from work—and what leadership must become

    Chatterjee asks whether expecting belonging and meaning at work is unrealistic. Perel argues the needs are real; what becomes ‘too much’ is expecting deep connection while treating work as endlessly temporary—leadership must evolve to match new relational demands.

  11. Conflict skills that transfer: ‘What are you fighting for?’

    Perel reframes conflict by shifting from surface topics to underlying needs: power/control, care/closeness (trust), and respect/recognition. Managing conflict well requires de-escalation, empathy, and accountability—not the absence of conflict.

  12. Your ‘unofficial resume’: how your relationship history shows up at work

    Perel explains that everyone brings relational patterns to work—authority issues, boundaries, accountability, competition, and self-worth—often shaped by family and prior relationships. Changing workplaces without changing patterns can recreate the same problems.

  13. How change happens: readiness, clarity, self-talk, and emotional intensity

    Perel outlines a practical internal change process: becoming ready, identifying specific behaviors, gathering evidence, and speaking to yourself with clarity and kindness. She emphasizes inner pushback (parts that resist change) and the emotions—regret, guilt, loss—that fuel transformation.

  14. Using ‘Where Should We Begin? At Work’ safely: prompts, pacing, and psychological safety

    Perel explains how the workplace card deck was built from her original game, then redesigned for professional contexts and validated with testing. She offers facilitation guidance: start light, make participation voluntary, allow swapping cards, and recognize that early storytellers set tone.

  15. Repairing friction at work: apologize early, invite conversation, listen well

    In closing advice, Perel suggests addressing workplace friction directly rather than compartmentalizing it. She reframes apology as strength and highlights that the art of conversation is listening—hearing the other person’s story without immediate rebuttal reduces tension and restores capacity at home.

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