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Dr Rangan ChatterjeeDr Rangan Chatterjee

The Uncomfortable Truth About Life Most People Learn Too Late | Maya Shankar

This episode is brought to you by: VIVOBAREFOOT: Get 15% off your first order https://links.drchatterjee.com/4nqvRI3 PELOTON: Let yourself ride, lift, stretch, move and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training Bike+ at https://onepeloton.co.uk THE WAY APP: Get 30 FREE sessions and begin your journey towards peace, calm and wellbeing. https://thewayapp.com/livemore Most of us are quite comfortable with change when we’ve chosen it: a new job, new home or new relationship. It’s the unwanted, unexpected changes that tend to floor us - like an illness, loss or breakup - that leave us wondering who we are and how on earth we’re meant to go on. In today’s episode, I’m joined by Dr Maya Shankar, cognitive scientist and author of The Other Side of Change. Maya has spent years studying how our minds respond to change, and she’s also gone through some profound changes of her own – from a hand injury that shattered her hopes of becoming a concert violinist, to a long, painful journey with fertility. We talk about so many different topics related to the theme of change, including why our brains find uncertainty so stressful, how unwanted change can reveal hidden beliefs that we hold and why witnessing other people’s courage or kindness can quietly change what we believe is possible for ourselves. We also explore a variety of evidence-based practical tools to help us deal with things like rumination and negative thought spirals. Throughout the conversation, Maya unpacks some inspiring stories of people facing extreme adversity - things like illness, betrayal, loss and even imprisonment – who were still able to find meaning, new identities and unexpected gifts on the other side. Yes, change is something that many humans struggle with, but as you are about to learn, with the right approach, it can be one of the very best tools to help us transform, grow and evolve. #feelbetterlivemore Connect with Maya: Website https://mayashankar.com/ Instagram http://instagram.com/drmayashankar Twitter https://x.com/slightchangepod YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjPvX8i3s7ZKQv23gBmZ_4w/videos Maya’s books: The Other Side of Change: Who We Become When Life Makes Other Plans US https://amzn.to/46TMp5D UK https://amzn.to/4bzBJf9 #feelbetterlivemore #feelbetterlivemorepodcast ------- Order MAKE CHANGE THAT LASTS. US & Canada version https://amzn.to/3RyO3SL, UK version https://amzn.to/3Kt5rUK ----- Follow Dr Chatterjee at: Website: https://drchatterjee.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drchatterjee Twitter: https://twitter.com/drchatterjeeuk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drchatterjee/ Newsletter: https://drchatterjee.com/subscription DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

Dr. Rangan Chatterjeehost
Mar 11, 20261h 47mWatch on YouTube ↗

CHAPTERS

  1. Why unexpected change feels so destabilizing: our brain’s intolerance of uncertainty

    Maya Shankar explains why unforeseen change can feel terrifying, especially for people who crave predictability. She uses research on stress responses to uncertainty to show that ambiguity can be more distressing than a known negative outcome.

  2. Building a “tolerance for uncertainty” muscle (and who may train it at work)

    Rangan compares specialists vs GPs and suggests repeated exposure to limited information may build stronger uncertainty tolerance. Maya agrees that tolerance can be trained and connects this to her goal in writing the book.

  3. Why some people navigate change better: cognitive closure, open-mindedness, and resilience

    Maya distinguishes between dispositions (like openness) and skills anyone can build. She introduces “cognitive closure” and explains how a mindset shift can increase resilience during gray, ambiguous periods after upheaval.

  4. The ‘End of History Illusion’: forgetting that change will change you

    Maya introduces a key bias that makes people underestimate how much they’ll transform in the future. She argues that disruptive events accelerate internal evolution, even when we feel unprepared at the start.

  5. Change as revelation: questioning hidden beliefs (and why we rarely interrogate them)

    The conversation turns to how upheaval exposes unexamined assumptions. Maya explains the etymology of “apocalypse” as “revelation,” framing change as a force that can reveal self-limiting beliefs rooted in childhood.

  6. Ingrid’s amnesia and the ‘Blank Slate’: removing shame like a Jenga block

    Maya shares Ingrid’s story: amnesia temporarily frees her from inherited shame about her family’s Indigenous heritage. The experience helps Ingrid see she can remove a single belief (shame) without collapsing her identity.

  7. Multiple interpretations: teaching cognitive flexibility (and reframing change as opportunity)

    Rangan describes teaching his daughter to look for alternative interpretations when classes change—an example of building flexible thinking early. Maya emphasizes flexibility as a lifelong asset and frames change as a chance to reimagine identity.

  8. When control breaks: Maya’s fertility journey, beliefs about womanhood, and surrender

    Maya shares her experience of infertility losses and how they confronted her illusion of control. The change revealed a deep belief linking her worth to motherhood, forcing a painful but transformative reassessment of identity and meaning.

  9. Grief and meaning over time: Rangan reframes his father’s death as a ‘gift’

    Rangan explains how his relationship to his father’s death changed over 12 years, even though the event itself did not. Maya highlights the idea that our relationship to life events is an ongoing dialogue that can evolve toward meaning.

  10. A roadmap beyond platitudes: universal psychology of change and shared human patterns

    Maya explains why she wrote the book: not as empty advice (“change how you respond”) but as a manual with strategies. She argues we can learn across very different stories because the underlying psychology of change is shared.

  11. Duane Betts and ‘moral elevation’: expanding possible selves through witnessing goodness

    Maya recounts Duane’s incarceration and how meeting a mentor-like prisoner (Bilal) altered his idea of who he could be. She introduces moral elevation as a brain-changing feeling that expands our imagination for our own ‘possible selves.’

  12. Engineering moral elevation: everyday examples, fiction as an ‘identity laboratory’

    The discussion widens to how moral elevation can help us cope with unwanted change and also inspire chosen change. Maya adds that fiction and films can simulate identity experimentation in a psychologically safe way.

  13. Identity that survives disruption: from ‘what I do’ to ‘why I do it’ (violin, podcast, long COVID)

    Maya shares her violin career-ending injury and the deeper lesson: identities tied to roles are fragile, but identities tied to values and motives are durable. She and Rangan explore “why” as a compass, including stories of reinvention after illness.

  14. Breaking mental spirals: rumination, psychological distance, and practical tools

    Maya defines rumination as unproductive circular problem-solving that intensifies negative emotion. She shares strategies from the book to create distance, regain perspective, and reduce self-attack—plus notes how isolation can worsen spirals.

  15. Self-affirmation after loss: gratitude as ‘wholeness’ and Maya’s changed relationship to motherhood

    Maya closes with an intimate story of a gratitude moment after miscarriage that broadened her perspective beyond tunnel vision. She explains self-affirmation as a resilience tool and shares that she’s now child-free yet happier and more liberated than she believed possible.

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