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Dr Rangan ChatterjeeDr Rangan Chatterjee

These 6 Habits Help Predict How Long You'll Live! (Heal The Body & Mind) | Gemma Newman

What is it that really makes us healthy? Is it regular trips to the doctor, a swift diagnosis, and medicine when we need it? Or do we need a more holistic approach? Today’s guest believes it is the latter.

Dr. Rangan ChatterjeehostDr. Gemma NewmanguestDr. Gemma Newmanguest
Jan 24, 20241h 57mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 3:11

    Why people struggle to change: self-compassion and the stories we live by

    1. RC

      So you've been a practicing medical doctor for around two decades now. Okay? You've seen many, many patients.

    2. GN

      Yes.

    3. RC

      In your view, what's the biggest reason for people to struggle with making changes?

    4. GN

      So I think in all my years, I've seen-- I mean, as a GP, I'm still working in the NHS, I'm still a partner in the NHS. I see everything and everyone from young babies through to elderly, vulnerable, and I think probably one of the biggest barriers is self-compassion, is, uh, where they are unable to see a better version of their future or themselves because they have been so used to seeing themselves and their lives in a certain way. And then trying to change that self-perception, I think, is actually something that is incredibly challenging.

    5. RC

      When did you come to that realization, would you say?

    6. GN

      It took a while. Um, I think as an idealistic young medic, I just thought, "Well, we've got all the protocols, and we've got all the systems."

    7. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    8. GN

      "All I need to do is tell patients what we can offer them and what we can do, and then everything's gonna get better for them." And obviously, over the course of a long career, you start to notice where even if you do have what you believe to be the right solution for someone, it's not necessarily something that they perceive as-

    9. RC

      Mm

    10. GN

      ... achievable, practical, desirable. Um, and so it took a while to get there. But I think what helped me get there was a real emphasis on just listening. Because when you listen to a patient's story or the story that they have told themselves, either about their illness or their past or who they are, you can really begin to understand where those challenges come up for them-

    11. RC

      Yeah

    12. GN

      ... and you know, where they're coming from.

    13. RC

      Yeah, I completely agree, Gemma. One of the reasons why I love the new book, Get Well Stay Well, so much is because it very much echoes my views on health.

    14. GN

      Mm.

    15. RC

      The sort of things I've realized, like you, through listening, through seeing patients, not necessarily from reading research papers, although, of course, that's important, and you cover all of that in the book.

    16. GN

      Oh, yes.

    17. RC

      But, but-

    18. GN

      Hundreds of references. [laughs]

    19. RC

      Yeah. So there's a lot of that, but there's also something about hearing people's stories.

    20. GN

      Yeah.

    21. RC

      And it's interesting, you said something about the stories that they're telling themselves. Now, the story we tell ourselves is the most powerful story, right? And that's the one that often we can't tell. Like, we don't know that story often, but people around us, our partner, our children maybe, our friends, and our doctors, if they are-- if they have the time and the desire to really listen, it's often quite obvious to other people, isn't it?

  2. 3:11 – 7:58

    A headache that wasn’t “just a headache”: uncovering hidden emotional strain

    1. GN

      Yeah. I think we're all prone to personal blind spots, and I myself included in that. I think it's actually really hard to reflect on how certain decisions that we made about ourselves and the world when we were very young impact how we see the world later and then what we experience later. And that is a hard challenge. I had a patient I remember seeing who came in to see me with headaches, and he said, "Everything's great, you know. I've got a great life. I've just had a newborn baby. I'm really happy with him and my wife and my job, and everything's fantastic. Why have I got these headaches?" And we talked it through. And listening, I thought, he feels like everything's perfect, and he's frustrated. Um, but it was only when we realized through various questioning it was a tension headache that we ruled out anything else that was more serious. And the mainstay is usually pain relief, but for him, he was like, "I don't wanna be popping pills all the time. What's wrong with me? Why am I getting these?" And he was really wanting to fix it, um, but he also didn't really know where it was coming from. And so it was only when we just took the time, and I said to him, "Look, tell me a little bit more about other relationships in your life. What's going on for you?" And that was when he kind of realized that he was estranged from his dad, and he had been for about a year, and his dad therefore had never met his baby. And he kind of realized after talking it through that that was one of the main things that was in his subconscious mind, something that he hadn't really thought about, but that was probably affecting him in some way. And so, you know, we went through all the treatment options, and he said, "Look, I, I, I don't know if this is affecting my headache or not, but it's interesting that it's come about at a similar time, and it might explain why I've been drinking maybe a little bit more than I normally would, and it might explain why I've been staying up a bit later than I normally would." And I said, "Look, let's try something." So we did, we did something called the meaning maker exercise, which I talk about in the book, and it's about the story we tell ourselves and how it affects our bodies and minds. So in his case, I said, "Look, how do you feel about your dad at the moment?" And he said, "I feel betrayed. I feel used. I feel like he's not the man I thought he was." And I said, "Okay. All right. Just take a step back a minute. Let's write down together the events of what actually happened in that relationship without any emotional attachment to it for now. So it can literally just be the events and not the good, not the bad, not what you think it means, just what happened." And he wrote down that, "My father asked me for money And he wrote down, um, that my father had debt and he didn't tell me. Those are the two facts that he came up with after sort of really trying to bring it all down to what, you know, he felt was most important in terms of an objective fact. I said, "Okay, now what you can do, now that we've taken the emotions out of it, what do you feel like you're grateful for that you learnt after having to go through all of this and have all these feelings come up? Is there anything that's happened in you that you're proud of? Is there anything that's happened in you that you feel grateful for?" And he said, "Well, actually, I feel like this has really helped me to understand the importance of honesty in relationships, which is something I hadn't reflected on before." And I said, "Great, you know, you can write that down." And he said, "And I also feel like my son becoming a father, I've realized how hard it must have been for him when we were growing up, because I'm feeling like there's a lot of things that I'm struggling with right now-

    2. RC

      Mm

    3. GN

      ... that maybe he struggled with, too." I said, "Okay, great." And he was able to come up with maybe two or three other things that he was grateful for about himself that he'd learned after all of the things that he went through in this.

    4. RC

      Mm.

    5. GN

      And so we left it at that, and I gave him some treatments, and he went away. And then, you know, when I saw him again a few months later, he let me know that, you know, his headaches had got better, and that he really appreciated the opportunity to actually reflect on some of the things that he was grateful for, even though there was a lot of struggle and pain. And interestingly, he didn't need to let his father know. He didn't actually want to have his father back in his life at that point. But just the very act of writing these-

    6. RC

      Mm

    7. GN

      ... things down, it gave him a lot more peace, and it gave him a lot more acceptance.

    8. RC

      Yeah. It's a, it's a great story. That's Jay in the book, isn't it?

    9. GN

      Yeah.

  3. 7:58 – 18:06

    The “meaning maker” exercise: separating facts from feelings to find peace

    1. RC

      Yeah. I, I circle that story, 'cause I think there were so many key learning points for all of us from it. The first one for me is that he came in to see you with a symptom. That symptom was headaches-

    2. GN

      Yeah

    3. RC

      ... right? And so our training, in my view, and perhaps you could share your perspective on this, is really about trying to, first of all, rule out anything mega serious, i.e. cancer-

    4. GN

      Yeah

    5. RC

      ... okay? Or something like that.

    6. GN

      Gotta make sure there's nothing life-threatening going on. [laughs]

    7. RC

      Yeah. Again, not to say that a tension headache and the pain which you're experiencing each day-

    8. GN

      Mm

    9. RC

      ... and the impact on your life is not serious, but, you know, the red flags, the red flag events we're trying to first of all rule out.

    10. GN

      Yeah.

    11. RC

      Once we've done that, my perspective is that we're trying to put that patient in a box somehow. We, we wanna give them a label, right? So in this case, a label is you have tension headaches. Usually, and depending on the interest of the doctor and the desire of the doctor and the time that they may have, it may be, you know, there may be a bit of an investigation as to, well, what might be causing this? But often, I would say there's a medication given, say, "These are your headaches. It's nothing serious. That will help you."

    12. GN

      Mm.

    13. RC

      Whereas what you've done is something quite different. You have managed to help him look a bit deeper. It sounds like he was interested as well-

    14. GN

      Mm

    15. RC

      ... to try and get to these root causes. And the root cause that you found together with him is not the typical root cause that doctors would look for.

    16. GN

      No.

    17. RC

      It's emotional. It's like the stories, right, he's telling himself, the pressure, the stress of his relationship with his father, that is showing up in his body as tension headaches. Some people will go, "Well, how does that work, Gemma?"

    18. GN

      Yeah. So it's an interesting one, isn't it? I would say that so much of our emotional state plays out in our physical bodies, and I think sometimes our body tries to talk to us when we're not even consciously aware sometimes about what's going on in the mind, and that's something that has always fascinated me. And I think it's also, as an aside, one of the reasons why physical ways of releasing energy h- are so good for us psychologically and emotionally as well. So, you know, things like yoga have been shown to be beneficial for people with PTSD, for example, and other physical therapies. Exercise, like the amazing benefits of exercise for our mental health. It's because our body and mind are intimately connected, you know, through the gut-brain axis, through our skin, through our, our heart. Uh, there's so many different ways in which there's that connection with our emotional world and our physical world, and it's something that I think is hard for doctors to talk about because it's different for every person.

    19. RC

      Mm.

    20. GN

      And there'll be different stories for every person, and there'll be different physical manifestations for every person. And I also wanna say that it's not that our physical problems are caused by our mental problems. I don't want people to get that impression from what I'm saying today. I think that there is so... I, I would say that s- well, with chronic diseases, people have a really hard time. There is a lot of, um, prejudice out there, and there is a lot of negativity, and life can be really hard. Like-

    21. RC

      Yeah

    22. GN

      ... life is challenging. Living is just hard in and of itself, and none of us escape that. You know, we all will experience grief. We all will experience grief, whether it's a loss of a loved one, a loss of our self-identity, a loss of our income, a loss of a, a close relationship. Life is really challenging, and I think giving ourselves the opportunity to reflect on how that affects us, body and mind, is so important.

    23. RC

      Yeah.

    24. GN

      Um, yeah.

    25. RC

      It's interesting you say one of the reasons why it might be challenging for healthcare professionals is that- There's different causes and different people

    26. GN

      Mm

    27. RC

      And this is something I'm really, really passionate about getting, getting this idea out to people, is that you could have 10 people, let's say, with tension headaches like Jay had, right? But there could be 10 different reasons. Whereas I very... I feel very strongly that we're taught this model that, oh, n- this is a tension headache. Now let's give the treatment for the tension headache. But actually, that model is really, really myopic in my view, because 10 people can have 10 different reasons. With Jay, it was in some way related to the stress and, quite literally, the tension being induced in his body and his mind to do with the relationship with his father. But, you know, if I had a tension headache at some point, it could be to do with completely different reasons. It could be overwork or not sleeping enough or, you know-

    28. GN

      Dehydration

    29. RC

      ... dehydration.

    30. GN

      [laughs] Yeah. Any, any number of things.

  4. 18:06 – 18:53

    Mind and body as one: why symptoms can be physical and emotional at the same time

    1. RC

      Yeah. Well, let's talk about your GLOVES framework.

    2. GN

      Yes.

    3. RC

      Okay? So in your new book, you outline your GLOVES- Framework

    4. GN

      Yeah

    5. RC

      Would you call it a framework?

    6. GN

      Yes. I mean, it's my acronym, I suppose, so people can remember what's important. And then I've got a three-point framework at the end to make it super simple so people can actually-

    7. RC

      Yeah

    8. GN

      ... practically take it away.

    9. RC

      I love stuff like that-

    10. GN

      [laughs]

    11. RC

      ... 'cause I know what it's like when you're trying to come up with frameworks and simplify them at the end.

    12. GN

      [laughs]

    13. RC

      When you simplified it to this power of three, I thought, "That is good. I like that." You know-

    14. GN

      Good

    15. RC

      ... it's a really simple but very powerful concept. So-

    16. GN

      Yeah

    17. RC

      ... why don't you start off by telling us what GLOVES stands for, and then perhaps you could explain the case of Millie, where you came up with that as a, as an idea.

  5. 18:53 – 19:59

    Introducing GLOVES: six free pillars to “get well” and “stay well”

    1. GN

      Yeah. So, I mean, what I wanna do is help people understand the s- the simple things that they can do to feel better that are free, and GLOVES stands for gratitude, love, outside, veggies, exercise, and sleep. Now, the reason that I put gratitude and love at the beginning, obviously they're the first two letters of GLOVES, so that helps. [laughs] But it made sense to me because I wanted people to understand that our way of being, feeling, and doing is vital to making decisions about our health that benefit us, each other, and the planet, and so that's why they're front and center. And the V in veggies, that essentially inc- incorporates nutrition and the power of plants on our plate, um, and the O for outside encompasses just the power of plants outside in nature and what that means for us, our bodies, mental, physical health. And obviously, exercise is movement, but it also incorporates breathing techniques because, as I mentioned to you before, our physiology can be shifted through movement-

  6. 19:59 – 24:42

    The latex-glove allergy case: small lifestyle changes, big ripple effects

    1. RC

      Mm

    2. GN

      ... which then gets to our brain in a different way than ruminating does or in telling ourselves we should feel a different way does, so the physical aspect is vital. And sleep, of course. So these are the, are the six regions that I think we all would need to know more about, and then really dialing it down to those three practical things at the end, um, is a way of just making it more straightforward for people to remember. So when I was thinking about what makes us healthy, I actually had a patient who was a healthcare practitioner, she was a nurse, and she came in to see me. She had a latex glove allergy. And I use gloves all the time at work, uh, like many of us do, uh, for intimate exams and for a variety of, uh, procedures and things like that, and so of course she did at work as well. And she was having terrible eczema on her hands. And so during the consultation, it could've been relatively straightforward. In fact, you know, I gave her some emollients, I gave her some steroid creams.

    3. RC

      Can you... So emollient salt, if people don't know that term.

    4. GN

      Yeah. So it's a, basically a type of moisturizing cream that you can get prescribed from your doctor, which will help you to, uh, moisturize your skin and keep it well-nourished. Um, and a steroid cream helps to reduce, uh, inflammation in the skin as well, uh, and you use those short-term. And basically told her to avoid latex gloves. Obviously, she could use non-latex gloves, and off she would've gone, and that would've been enough. She's a busy woman. She just wanted her creams, and off she goes. But I did ask her a few other questions, and what struck me is that in her medical history, she had, she had some other things. She had asthma. Uh, she also had seasonal, you know, hay fever. So she had a, a tendency towards what we call atopy, which is where, you know, you have all of these kinds of allergic conditions that can somehow interact with each other and t- tend to run in families. Um, and she also had some thyroid dysregulation as well. So I was just asking her a little bit more about her lifestyle because I know that so many of the nurses that I've worked with historically have, have... You know, it's hard. You know, you're working long shifts. You're not necessarily looking after yourself. And she was quite young. She was partying at weekends. She was living in a house share. And she was just telling me, "Well, I do tend to stay up late at weekends. I tend to go out, and I do a little bit of, you know, drink with my girls and, you know, I have a good time, but I'm really struggling to keep up my energy for shifts." And I said, "Well, tell me a bit more about your day-to-day routine." And that's actually really useful often, is to get people to talk about what an average day looks like for them. And she says, "Well, I'll just... You know, I'll drag myself out of bed. I'll grab a coffee and a croissant on the way to work, and then I'll grab a ham and cheese sandwich at the canteen. I'm too busy to stop, and I'll get, I get a takeaway when I get home 'cause I'm too tired to cook, and I do a little bit of scrolling on socials because I wanna catch up with what my friends are up to. I watch a bit of Netflix, then I go to bed, and the whole routine starts again." I was like, "Okay." And I said, "Is there anything in there that you feel like has been affecting you in terms of your physical or mental health?" She said, "Well, I have been struggling with sleep, to be honest, and I've not been prioritizing it, and I'm really tired a lot of the time." I said, "Okay." So we talked it through, and the important thing is she came up with the things that she thought she could do to make her lifestyle feel a little bit easier for her.

    5. RC

      Mm.

    6. GN

      So she was the one that said, "Okay, well, what I can now do after our chat, and I've been thinking about how I'm gonna look after myself, I'm gonna start doing a bit of batch cooking on a Sunday with my, in my flat share. I'm gonna start doing a bit of cooking for myself-

    7. RC

      Mm

    8. GN

      ... and see if I can batch cook for a couple of days in the week so then I don't have as many takeaways." I said, "Okay, that's a good, good plan."

    9. RC

      Mm.

    10. GN

      And she said, "The other thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go to bed, I'm gonna set my alarm and go to bed an hour earlier than I have been and make sure I get up at the same time," 'cause we'd talked about sleep hygiene, things like that. I said, "Okay, great." And she said, "The other thing that I can do" because I told her about how when you're eating on the go, you're not necessarily digesting it so well. She'd been having a bit of bloating as well. [laughs] She said, "Okay, I'm gonna sit down, and I'm gonna eat breakfast and lunch whilst sitting." I said, "Okay. Those are the three things that you can do. That's great." And off she went. And it was amazing actually, because a few months later when I saw her, obviously she'd stopped using latex gloves so that, you know, her s- her hands had got better, but her asthma had got a lot better as well. She was having less of her inhaler. She needed far less of her inhalers, and her skin in general was great, and she didn't have so much in w- in terms of her hay fever either. So there's a lot of other things in her life that seemed to have got better, and I couldn't have said to her, you know, "Your other issues are gonna resolve" 'cause I couldn't know that for sure.

    11. RC

      Mm.

    12. GN

      And there was no way of knowing that, but- For her, it was actually really powerful because she realized the importance of small wins done consistently. I think she realized little habits that you think aren't gonna make much of a difference, if you c- persist with them over time, they, they really can build up

  7. 24:42 – 28:49

    Why little habits matter: immune function, digestion, and the power of consistency

    1. RC

      I- it's a really powerful story. If someone's listening and going, "Okay, Gemma, I get that," like she's looking after herself, but how has that helped her eczema or her asthma or her hay fever? How would you explain it?

    2. GN

      Well, the first thing I can say to that is I certainly didn't tell her that that would happen because I couldn't possibly know-

    3. RC

      Mm-hmm

    4. GN

      ... that it would. But what we do know is that when we have allergic or immune issues, they can be influenced by our ability to sleep, uh, they can be influenced by our ability to d- digest our food properly-

    5. RC

      Mm

    6. GN

      ... and they can be influenced by stress. And, you know, little things like, for example, just sitting down and eating whilst enjoying the food, chewing it slowly, that gets your digestive enzymes moving, it gets the, uh, amylase in your mouth able to actually start to digest-

    7. RC

      Mm

    8. GN

      ... you know, the, the glucose in your food. And, and so you're actually able to really take the time to digest all the nutrients, get them assimilated, and that's important for healthy and functioning immune system.

    9. RC

      Yeah.

    10. GN

      So it's things like that, that you can't say, "This is, you know, exactly why it happened," but you can, you can get clues.

    11. RC

      Yeah. And, and when you see it time and time again, you know that there's something going on there-

    12. GN

      Mm

    13. RC

      ... if you see it enough times. And I think one of the other problems, I believe, in terms of how we're taught to practice medicine, is because the scientific method is reductionist by its very nature, that's how we tend to, you know, figure out wh- what is moving the needle here, you know? Oh, you got 100 patients with atopic eczema. Let's give 50 a steroid cream, and the other 50 don't get it. Let's assess, does it work or not? Great. It's a, it's a, it's a very good way of assessing things like that.

    14. GN

      Yeah. And it's important.

    15. RC

      And it is important, but sometimes bec- because I think we ... It's not that we overvalue that, it's just that we undervalue [laughs] the other elements, because we know that sleeping better will directly improve the health of your immune system.

    16. GN

      Yeah.

    17. RC

      You know, we know the, the amount of natural killer cells in your body changes depending on how much sleep you get. Natural killer cells are this, you know, part of our immune system that help to fight off bacteria and viruses. And the point is, is that sleep, digesting her food better because she's sitting down and her digestion's working, these things really do move the needle even though people will probably feel that they won't.

    18. GN

      Yes.

    19. RC

      Right?

    20. GN

      It's so true. But this, and this is the other thing as well, you know, it's just it's true for habits that help us as well as habits that harm us. You know? So if I was to go grab myself a donut and have a donut for breakfast every day for a week, it's probably not gonna make much difference to my overall health, but if I was to consistently do that every morning for a year, I think everybody would probably understand that it would have some form of impact on my long-term health. And, you know, if I was to take French lessons for six hours, uh, I'm not gonna be able to speak fluent French, but if I practice French for an hour once a week for 10 years, then I would most definitely have a much greater chance of actually being able to speak French. So it's about understanding the cumulative effect of-

    21. RC

      Mm

    22. GN

      ... the little things that we do every day, both things that help and things that harm.

    23. RC

      So the case of Millie with her GLOVES helped you with your acronym GLOVES.

    24. GN

      It did.

    25. RC

      Okay. Which I love.

    26. GN

      It's like a mini epiphany. [laughs]

    27. RC

      It's a mini epiphany, so let's go through it. And look, you know, gratitude, love, outside, vegetables, exercise, sleep. I'm really fascinated with ... Well, all of them really, but the first three, gratitude, love, and outsides.

    28. GN

      Mm.

    29. RC

      I think those are things that are not spoken about enough in relation to health. I don't think doctors speak or think about these things enough when it comes to health, and I'm delighted that you are, you know, highlighting the importance of these things in your new book.

    30. GN

      Yeah. Thank you.

  8. 28:49 – 39:39

    Gratitude redefined: learning, beauty, and reducing pain perception

    1. RC

      Let's start with gratitude. What is it, and why is it so powerful?

    2. GN

      So gratitude is a process whereby you recognize what you have learnt from the experiences in your life, and you recognize moments of beauty that you can see and feel around you. At least that's how I would define it. And one of the things that strikes me when I see patients is that, as I mentioned before, life is hugely challenging, and there is many things that we don't have to [laughs] feel grateful for or can't even imagine ourselves feeling grateful for. Um, tragedy is around the corner for all of us, and that sounds really quite a negative thing to say, but it's also true. I think the, the gamble of actually living a life fully means that we will have to experience tragedy too. And for me, it's about understanding what it is that we can learn from those moments and how we can actually bring a bit more light and a bit more self-compassion to the, the times when we really struggle. Um, and sometimes, you know, when people hear about gratitude practices, they think, oh, well, that's, that's for the people who are rich or wealthy or don't have any problems in their life, or that's for the people that nothing's gone wrong for. Um, but f- my perception is that it's for everybody. And when we can connect with ourselves with gratitude and, and self-compassion, it means that we're f- we're far more likely to be able to connect with other people in that space as well. And from that space, we can then elevate ourselves and other people. So it's really a way of recognizing our shared humanity.

    3. RC

      Yeah. To make sure you're taking action after watching this video, I've created a free guide to help you build healthy habits. We can all make short-term change, but can those changes become a fundamental part of our life? Often they don't, and that's why in this free guide, I share with you the six crucial steps you need to take that are really, really effective. If you wanna get hold of that free guide right now, all you have to do is click the link in the description box below. I like your definition, Gemma. I think one of the ways many of us think about gratitude is, you know, to, to write down or to think about things that they, they're grateful for in their life, right? You know, I'm grateful for the roof over my head. I'm grateful that I can afford to feed my family, whatever it might be. And you include that in your definition, but there's a bit more to it, isn't there, the way you describe it? And if we think about the case of Jay and his headaches, the way he looked at his life, his relationship with his father, the way he took the emotion out, and then you helped to guide him to look for those learnings, well, that's gratitude as well, isn't it?

    4. GN

      Yes. And that's a way of helping the emotions that we feel to have validation, but also helping them to actually bring further meaning to our lives, rather than, in a way, what we tend to do is externalize that emotion. So if something's gone wrong, or if we feel betrayed by somebody, or if we feel let down by somebody, um, it's actually quite hard for us to process, well, what is it that we've learned about ourselves, and what can we feel grateful for? That doesn't come naturally, but it's one of the key ways in which we can actually learn something from what we go through and give to others. And yeah, I, it's not something that's really talked about a lot, but I think it's actually really crucial to getting and staying well physically and emotionally.

    5. RC

      What happens in the brain when we express gratitude?

    6. GN

      Well, we go through a process where... See, the part of our brain that's responsible for excess rumination, uh, that tends to light up when we are, um, in a negative cycle of thinking. And, um, the parts of our brain that light up when we're in a more sort of grateful state of thinking are also the ones that light up when we do other things like physical movement, and we get a good sleep-

    7. RC

      Mm

    8. GN

      ... and things like that. So it's about igniting that part of our brain that allows us to be more present in the moment as well. Um, and again, that's very hard to do if your brain is racing a- away into the future or worrying about things that have happened in the past or worrying about what's gonna happen next. Um, so yeah, it's about allowing the brain to completely relax and allowing you to be completely present in the moment. Um, and then that process then allows you to think more about, well, feeling, um, gratitude.

    9. RC

      If someone is in a lot of pain at the moment, or they're suffering with a chronic disease, if they were to say to you, "Gemma, look, I get this, but my life's really tough. I'm in pain. I'm in agony. I can't do the things that I want to do in life-"

    10. GN

      Mm.

    11. RC

      "... what have I got to be grateful for?" What would you say to them?

    12. GN

      I'd say, "I hear you, and I understand," because I do understand. I see it all the time at work. I see it, um, with lots of people. Uh, you know, they've, they've really had it tough, and I think what I would say is they need to feel better for themselves. They, they need to feel like they've got the love in themselves that will allow them to move forwards. And I think when we hold on to a lot of the negative things that have happened to us, it's hard for us to move forward. And when it comes to things like pain, we actually have more of a sensation of physical pain, um, when we're feeling low. And when we're feeling gratitude, that physical pain sensation can be diminished. So it can improve our physical health when we let go of some of these negative ruminations, and, you know, there is some study evidence on that as well.

    13. RC

      Yeah.

    14. GN

      So even things like gratitude journaling, it's not just for people who, you know, are feeling great or things are going well for. It actually helps people who are low in mood. There was a really interesting study where, um, there were people who were going through counseling, and they had the opportunity to write gratitude letters. Um, another group had the opportunity to write down the things that were bothering them, and another control group was just having the psychotherapy counseling, and what they found within the study period was that the... I think that the gratitude journaling and the writing down things that were bothering them was both a four-week process, but they were followed up after that, and I think for a maximum of 12 weeks. And what they found was that the group who did the gratitude journaling, uh, and the gratitude letters experienced a greater improvement in their mental health than those who did the counseling alone and also who wrote down some of their problems. So- What I think is really interesting is when you understand some of the study evidence that we have, then in effect, when you're suffering from pain and when you're feeling low, it's probably the very best time to really reflect on how these things could help you.

    15. RC

      Yeah, there was another study I think you popped in that chapter to do with pain. Was it a 16% reduction in pain?

    16. GN

      Yes, that's right, a 16% reduction in pain perception, and that's huge.

    17. RC

      That's huge.

    18. GN

      You know, if you think about all the things that you wanna try and do to improve your physical health, especially, you know, we, we don't necessarily like the idea of relying on painkillers as much as we do, but if we can do something that endoges- endogenously improves our pain perception by up to 16%, that's worth trying.

    19. RC

      Yeah, the word perception's interesting, isn't it? Our perception of pain, because that word really shows us and signifies that pain is not a static thing. You either have it or you don't. There is a perception of that pain, right? It, it creates a little bit of separation between us and the pain.

    20. GN

      Yeah.

    21. RC

      And that's not to say to anyone that pain doesn't exist. Of course, it does. About a year ago or so, I spoke to Dr. Howard Schubiner on this podcast, a really popular episode about how to treat chronic pain naturally, and he, he shared with me the research that actually the part of the brain which experiences physical pain is the same part of the brain that experiences emotional pain.

    22. GN

      Yes. Yeah.

    23. RC

      Right? And then you tie that up with what you've just been talking about and how if we can make... If we can enhance our meaning of certain things or reframe the meaning of certain things, that can lower the emotional tension within us-

    24. GN

      Yeah

    25. RC

      ... which, it kinda makes sense, could also change our perception of physical pain, doesn't it?

    26. GN

      Yes, absolutely. It really can, and that doesn't mean that what we're experiencing is in our minds.

    27. RC

      No.

    28. GN

      Not, not at all. It just means that when we have the part of our brain that experiences physical pain as the same as the emotional pain, then if we can lower the emotional pain, then our pain perception of the physical pain can also potentially be diminished. And that's a really lovely thing to know because, again, it allows us a little bit of a sense of autonomy of our... Because there's so many things that we can't control.

    29. RC

      Yeah.

    30. GN

      And there's so many circumstances that we have no ability to shift in the present moment. Um, and it could be things like family responsibilities or the job that we have right now or the, the, the ill health that we're experiencing at the moment. But if we can reflect on ways that we can actually minimize our emotional pain or our emotional response to the pain that we're feeling, then that is a step towards self-determination for our health, and that is something that is so valuable for our self-esteem as well.

  9. 39:39 – 54:47

    Visualization and daily intention-setting: imagining a healthier future self

    1. RC

      In the section on gratitude, you wrote about imagination-

    2. GN

      Mm

    3. RC

      ... and visualization. And right at the start of this conversation when I asked you about one of the most common reasons, if not, if not the most common reason why people struggle to really make long-lasting change in their lives, I think you mentioned that, that actually people cannot imagine themselves as a different person. They can't imagine what it would be like to be well or be that different person, be that person who's calm and non-reactive and is forgiving.

    4. GN

      Mm.

    5. RC

      So tell me what's so good about imagination, visualization, mental rehearsal? What does that do, and does that tie in to the answer that you gave me right at the start?

    6. GN

      Yes, it does because visualization is a powerful way of helping you to imagine the better future that you currently cannot see. And if you allow space for visualization, it doesn't have to be a, sort of a mumbo jumbo or a woo woo thing. It's li- it's literally opening up your mind to possibility. And what we tend to do day to day, our day to day habits are the things that drive our thoughts and the things that then drive our actions, right? So if we can allow space for different habits or different thoughts or different actions, then the only way to really start to imagine that is through the power of visualization. And you don't have to do one thing first. You could do what- whatever resonates with you. So one person might find that, actually, if I just change this one daily habit, that's gonna maybe help me open my mind a little bit more. Um, whereas other people find it useful just to go all out on a potential visualization of what they could imagine their future being or their future health circumstance being. And then that can allow them the ideas that come from changing their habits. So it doesn't have to be one way.

    7. RC

      Yeah. I just love this whole approach, Gemma, that you take to health. Um, this idea that we've all got different starting points.

    8. GN

      Mm.

    9. RC

      And I don't know about you, but one of the biggest problems I see online when it comes to the conversation about health is the belief that there's one way.

    10. GN

      Mm.

    11. RC

      We often fall into the trap of believing that, let's say, for example, you know, you know, you've heard me talk about these four pillars of health before, food, movement, sleep, and relaxation, right? Let's say you found the change long-lasting through food. Food was your entry point in. People fall into the trap of believing, "Well, that's everyone's entry point in because it was for me."

    12. GN

      Mm.

    13. RC

      And I think because, you know, [laughs] we've been- ... doctors for two decades, over two decades, the two of us together

    14. GN

      We, we've been doing this a long time [laughs]

    15. RC

      We've seen a lot of people.

    16. GN

      [laughs]

    17. RC

      We realize that actually there is no one right way that works for everyone.

    18. GN

      Yeah.

    19. RC

      Someone's gonna wanna change their habits first. That's gonna help them then imagine the possibilities. Whereas someone else will go, "Oh, I can't do that. Let me do the imagining first-

    20. GN

      Yeah

    21. RC

      ... and that'll take me to the habits."

    22. GN

      Yeah, exactly. So it really depends on the person. Uh, but it does work, and there is some study evidence to suggest that it really can improve your, you know, your ability to imagine that better future, and then, and then obviously go ahead and do it. Um, there was one study I read about, about muscle strength, which was fascinating. Um, so they, they got, uh, let me try and get this right now. Yeah, they got three groups of people, um, in the study, and one group were told to flex their muscles as though they were doing it in real time, so as though they were seeing themselves flex their muscles in real time. I think it was 15 minutes a day, five days a week. And another group were told that they had to see themselves from a distance as though they were watching a movie, flexing their muscles for 15 minutes, um, five times a week, I think it was. And then the final group had no visualization. And it was only in the group that were visualizing themselves flexing their muscles in real time that they actually saw an improvement in their muscle strength, even though none of the groups had actually moved a muscle.

    23. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    24. GN

      But the one that had imagined themselves doing it in real time were the ones that actually experienced a significant change in their ability to, um, yeah, to move the muscles in terms of the muscle strength.

    25. RC

      Yeah, there, there is quite a bit of research on this, the power of visualization, and what I often say to people who are skeptical is, I say, "Well, okay, let's just think about some of the best athletes on the planet."

    26. GN

      Exactly.

    27. RC

      Right?

    28. GN

      Yeah.

    29. RC

      Most of them, or a lot of them I should say, actively engage in visualization. There's many golfers-

    30. GN

      Yeah

  10. 54:47 – 1:04:09

    Values, purpose, and “code words”: building identity-level habits

    1. GN

      Exactly. And one of the things that I mention in the book, which is really interesting as an exercise, is the u- is the concept of really embedding it in your psyche by making a code word. So if you've spent the time to figure out what your values are, or at least maybe the top three that you wanna bring in for that day or f- perhaps even f- as a theme in your life at the moment, creating a code word that reminds you of those values can be even more powerful because it gives you a lot more of a personal connection to it. So let me explain.

    2. RC

      Is this where your husband's polar bear comes in?

    3. GN

      Yes.

    4. RC

      I remember reading that. And I looked at that over and over again because I thought, "Yeah, I don't really have a code word for my values," and it made me think about what that might be.

    5. GN

      I mean, I can explain it a little bit more, 'cause our listeners probably have no clue what we're talking about. But basically, when you have a value that's important to you, creating a memory or a moment where you really channeled that value can be really helpful. So yeah, the polar bear. So my husband decided that when he was thinking about his values, um, family was, was top on his list and being a good dad. So he thought, "Well, how do I actually connect with that value so that I remember even more viscerally what it-"

    6. RC

      Mm

    7. GN

      ... would be like to be a good dad today?" And he has this memory of when they were younger, the boys, they used to play these games together where he would pretend to be a polar bear, and our youngest son would climb underneath, and our oldest son would climb on top, and they would... You know, he would basically be on all fours crawling around the house pretending to be a polar bear, and they would be the little baby polar bears, and they'd be, you know, looking for food and playing. And it was just a really sweet thing that they used to do.

    8. RC

      Yeah.

    9. GN

      And so for him, it was polar bears. And for me, when I thought about one of my code words, so for me compassion has been a really important value. And I thought, "Well, how do I... Do I have a code word for compassion?" And it hit me when I was thinking about it because I learned a Jikiden Reiki practice, uh, which I do on myself every day. And when I was learning about Jikiden Reiki, it's a Japanese practice, I was learning more about the Goddess Quan Yin, a goddess of compassion, and she was actually worshiped originally in, um, both sexes, male and female, um, originally, but she turned into a goddess. So whenever you go somewhere where you may see statues of Buddha, you may see a female form, that's Quan Yin, a goddess of compassion.

    10. RC

      How do you spell that?

    11. GN

      Q-U-A-N-Y-I-N, Quan Yin.

    12. RC

      Okay.

    13. GN

      And yeah, it, it really allowed me to channel my compassion because I, when I perform Reiki on myself, it's a form of self-compassion, and when I perform Reiki on others, it's a way of giving love to them in a compassionate way. So that's where I decided that my code word was gonna be Quan Yin.

    14. RC

      I imagine your patients really like you, don't they, Gemma?

    15. GN

      [laughs] Well, I think some of them do. [laughs] Most of them, I hope. [laughs] But yeah.

    16. RC

      I know it's hard to answer that yourself, but you, you strike me as someone who's very kind and compassionate, very caring, which is ultimately what I think everyone wants from any of their relationships, but in particular a relationship with a healthcare professional.

    17. GN

      Yeah, I think that's important for so many of my patients, just to feel listened to, to feel as though somebody actually cares about what they're going through.

    18. RC

      Yeah.

    19. GN

      Mm.

    20. RC

      Why do you think that much of the time we hear these days, and for many years, that a lot of patients will say, "I don't feel heard by my doctor. I felt that they were ignoring me"? Why do you think that's the case?

    21. GN

      I think in terms of the doctor, it comes from a place of overwhelm. Because we are living in a time where there are more and more pressures on doctors, and more and more paperwork for them to fill out, and more and more external pressures that make them feel as though they can't give the time that they would otherwise give. Um, uh, I don't think every doctor comes at it with an attitude where, you know, they wanna help people, but most of them do.

    22. RC

      Yeah.

    23. GN

      Most of them did. Uh, and you know, when you go through a period of feeling professionally and emotionally exhausted, you can't give what you used to give, and I think a lot of doctors are going through that right now. They just can't give what they used to 'cause they feel depleted.

    24. RC

      That's the same in any relationship, isn't it?

    25. GN

      Mm.

    26. RC

      If we are depleted ourselves, it's very hard to be the partner that we would ideally like to be, the, the, the parents, the friends-

    27. GN

      Yeah

    28. RC

      ... the son, the daughter, whatever it might be.

    29. GN

      Yeah.

    30. RC

      It's hard, isn't it?

  11. 1:04:09 – 1:30:28

    Outside as medicine: nature, vision, water, and adapting for urban life

    1. RC

      Let's skip L for the moment and go to O, which is outside. We'll get back to L 'cause it's great, but y- you sort of touched on outside a little bit already when you mentioned, I think, the studies of... or one of the studies of what happens when we go out into nature. Let's go right to the top. Why did you give an entire one of your six letters over to outside, and what do you mean by outside?

    2. GN

      So the reason is we are part of nature, and as humans, we're so good at separating ourselves from nature because we think we're above it, but we are it. [laughs] So for me, it's integral to understanding how we can actually bring more health and vitality into our lives. Because if we focus on being outside in nature and having an appreciation for nature, then it also, I think, helps us to be more mindful of how we interact with nature and support it and sustain it for future generations. So for me, it had multiple layers of significance because often it's only in truly appreciating the power of nature and the natural world that we can actually treasure it, um, and experience the health benefits as well. So yeah.

    3. RC

      You started off that section with, with another powerful case study. There's many powerful case studies in the book, but there was... I can't remember his name, but it was a chap who essentially was close to burnout or, or, or was at burnout, but a little bit of nature helped to create... My interpretation of reading that case study was that it created a bit of space in his life. It gave him a bit of perspective-

    4. GN

      Yeah

    5. RC

      ... which allowed him to then go and make changes.

    6. GN

      Yeah, absolutely. And I think-- So for, we called him Alan in the, in the book. Uh, all the names have been changed for confidentiality, but for him, it was... He was one of these people who was working from home, and he was always at the computer, and there was a lot of expectation that he would answer emails straight away and that he would, um, be on for every meeting. And he was... He didn't have time, he felt, to go outside. He didn't have time to go anywhere. He was just basically at home in the office constantly working, and he got to the point where he literally fell to his knees and started sobbing because he was completely overwhelmed. And so, you know, his wife said to him, "Go and see the doctor. Gotta try and sort this out." And i- interestingly, there were just a few things that were required to help him feel less overwhelmed, creating boundaries around his personal time Was important, because you don't have to be there to answer emails 24/7, and nobody should really expect that-

    7. RC

      Mm-hmm

    8. GN

      ... especially not in a job that's not necessarily a life or death situation. But also, the power of nature, like you say, even... Uh, 'cause a lot of people, you spend so many time, so much time on our screens, we get a lot of, um, eye strain, we get a lot of sort of blurry vision, and even just being able to look out into the distance for a little while actually shifts that, that visual focus and allows our parasympathetic nervous system to kick in a little bit more, gives us more of a-

    9. RC

      Mm-hmm

    10. GN

      ... sense of calm. Even changing... It's literally a way of seeing the wood for the trees, being able to change your perspective from looking at something very close up with a monitor that's emitting a lot of blue light, to being able to look out into the distance, as far as you can into the horizon, just letting your eyes relax. It's actually a great way of allowing your parasympathetic nervous system a chance to kick in. And seeing scenes in nature also does that. There's some great studies, actually, on being able to relax your body and mind just by looking at images of nature-

    11. RC

      Yeah

    12. GN

      ... which is so exciting, 'cause you think to yourself, even if you don't feel like you even live anywhere close to something that remotely looks like a tree or a bush or a, a, a patch of grass, just being able to see that image is powerful in and of itself. And there's some also great studies on people recovering from hospital stays-

    13. RC

      Yeah

    14. GN

      ... you know, where they had, um, a room with a view to the outside, where y- you know, you might be able to see a hospital courtyard, for example. Um, they reported, um, faster recovery times, less need for analgesia postoperatively. It, it's amazing the impact it can have on our physical health and recovery just being around nature, and there are so many different examples of that. Um, I alluded to some of the studies done on so-called forest bathing, where you can log, um, walks in nature. I think there was a group of, of gentlemen walking in the forest, 90 minutes, uh, same, uh, 90 minutes in urban settings, but the forest settings, they were able to record lower blood pressure, lower pulse rate, um, you know, a- an ability to actually improve their physiology by walking in one place over another.

    15. RC

      Yeah.

    16. GN

      Um, and there's lots of reasons for that, lots of potential reasons that I would postulate. Um, phytoncides being one. You mentioned our natural killer cells. It's amazing. There was one study on women, I think it was four hours of walking in the forest over two days, um, they were able to boost their natural killer cells by 40%, um, just by walking in, you know, in an outdoor setting.

    17. RC

      Yeah, you mentioned some of the, the research on forest bathing. I remember when that book came out, I think it was called, is it Shinrin-yoku?

    18. GN

      Yes, that's the name for it in Japanese.

    19. RC

      It came out, I think 2017, 2018, something like that, and, you know, the professor was... I remember reading about all that research about phytoncides and how trees emit these chemicals out.

    20. GN

      These organic compounds.

    21. RC

      Yeah.

    22. GN

      Yeah.

    23. RC

      And what it does to the human immune system.

    24. GN

      Yeah, it's incredible.

    25. RC

      It's phenomenal.

    26. GN

      Yeah.

    27. RC

      Um, what about nature's impact on our mental wellbeing?

    28. GN

      Yeah, so again, we have some great evidence to suggest it really helps to reduce activity in the parts of the brain that's responsible for rumination, the subgenual prefrontal cortex-

    29. RC

      Very good. [laughs]

    30. GN

      [laughs] Is, uh, less activated when we go out in nature, and I think that's fascinating because it shows us that not only can we have potential reductions in blood pressure, reductions in heart rate, but we can actually see the changes and the shifts in our own brains when we go outside.

  12. 1:30:28 – 1:48:52

    Love and forgiveness: releasing resentment as a health practice

    1. RC

      There's a whole chapter, a beautiful chapter, that you've written about love. What is love?

    2. GN

      [laughs] It's defined in so many ways by so many different religious traditions, and everyone has a different idea about what it means, how it's expressed. But for me, it fundamentally is an awareness of our connectivity and an awareness of how- We can all make a difference to the lives of other people, but we just don't necessarily always realize that. So in the love chapter, I talk about self-love as a way of improving our health. That's self-compassion, but also, um, about how in giving love to others, we also elevate their health. 'Cause we're all, I do believe we're all healers of ourselves and of each other.

    3. RC

      Mm.

    4. GN

      And I feel so emotional for some reason. I feel like this is, I think because this is, I feel this is the real core of my mission in life, is because, you know, we're all healers. We just don't realize it. I chose a career in medicine because I wanted to help people, yes, but we all heal each other through the stories we tell ourselves and each other, and through compassion for ourselves and each other. And that's why love is so important, is because it is the root of, I believe, a lot of our healing.

    5. RC

      In that section, you wrote about forgiveness.

    6. GN

      Mm.

    7. RC

      And I'm a, I'm a [laughs] can you be a fan of forgiveness?

    8. GN

      [laughs]

    9. RC

      I, I feel I'm a fan of forgiveness.

    10. GN

      Good.

    11. RC

      Like, I've dived into the research like you have.

    12. GN

      [laughs]

    13. RC

      I think it is such an undervalued component of our health. I honestly don't think people realize how much energy they are using to hold on to resentment.

    14. GN

      Yes.

    15. RC

      Even in really traumatic situations, and you've got to be very sensitive with how you talk about this, and I do understand that people have experienced really awful trauma. How do you see forgiveness, and what are the health benefits for us of engaging in forgiveness practices?

    16. GN

      So for me, I think the, yeah, the love chapter, I wanted to include forgiveness because I've seen how resentment can really eat away at health. Um, I've seen that in my patients, and also I think m- many of us have seen it in loved ones too. You know, certain things that happen to us we have no control over, the ways in which certain people have treated us, it can really consume our hearts. And in so doing, it is something that we punish ourselves with, you know? It's a, it's a form of self-punishment. Um, and so what I wanted to really touch on in the book is if we can understand that forgiveness is a gift that we truly give to ourselves, it's not for the person we forgive. And whether that sounds cliched or not, I don't know, but it is very true. And there's a lot of research around how-

    17. RC

      Yeah

    18. GN

      ... forgiveness really does elevate our personal health. And so it's a beautiful gift. It's a gift that we can give to ourselves, and in allowing ourselves a bit more peace, allowing ourselves a feeling of lightness. Um, and again, it's about not necessarily even having to come up with lessons that we've learnt or ways that it's improved us. No, it's just about letting go, actually. It's about release. Because it's important to feel the emotions that we feel, but it's also important to be able to let them go.

    19. RC

      Yeah.

    20. GN

      And I think in letting go, you don't have to make them right. You don't have to make it okay what happened. You don't have to, you know, change anything about what your day-to-day life even looks like. But in letting go, you've given yourself the greatest gift because it then allows you the opportunity to finally have a sense of freedom in your heart, an ability to actually put a lot more of your energy into feeling good and lifting yourself and other people.

    21. RC

      You know, I love it. These things are huge, and why I think they often get neglected is 'cause people, you can't measure them as easily as you can measure your blood sugar, right? You know, you can change your diet and see your average blood sugar, your HbA1c go down, and go, "Oh, yeah," you know. But it's, it's harder for people to do that with something like forgiveness.

    22. GN

      Yeah.

    23. RC

      But Fred Luskin at Stanford University, for example, you know, on the Stanford Uni research project on forgiveness, they have shown that people who are able to forgive have lower blood pressure, right? Um, better immune system function. They're happier. There's all kinds of things that that research has shown. People don't realize, in my experience, that actually holding on to emotional pain and resentment is literally tension, hypertension in your body.

    24. GN

      Yes.

    25. RC

      Right?

    26. GN

      That's a really eloquent way of putting it. Absolutely. Oh my goodness, yes. So I've a patient who would come and see me for many years, and she had, uh, an arranged marriage. And she, uh, ha- w- well, she grew up in a time at which that was very normal, um, and in a culture in which that was very normal. And she had a husband who had, uh, had other relationships outside of the marriage, and she resented him greatly for this, but she didn't feel as though she could change anything. She was very resigned to her fate, and she'd come and see me, uh, week after week. She had a lot of all-over body pains. She had a lot of issues with, um, pain, physical pain from all different places. And ultimately, we would, we would come back to her situation at home and how she felt a lot of deep resentment towards her husband, but she didn't feel like she could change it, and this is just the way things were, and she just had to live with it. And she didn't think sh- that he really loved her. How could he if he'd been doing this, um- And so it went on. And then, um, after a while she was diagnosed with breast cancer, and she had to go to the hospital regularly for a variety of appointments, and she was having various therapies. I think she also had surgery. And what I started to notice when I was consulting her about her cancer was that a lot of her other all-over body pains began to disappear. And I said to her, "How are you feeling? You know, this is a very grueling treatment process. You know, you have a lot going on. How are you feeling?" And she said, "I'm feeling a lot better, actually." [laughs] And I said, "Really? With everything that you're going through, you're feeling better than you did before?" She said, "Yeah." I said, "Why?" [laughs] Really didn't understand what was going on, and she said, "Well, you know, my husband takes me to all my appointments, and he makes me cups of tea, and he told me that, you know, if I was to die he wouldn't know what he would do without me, and I see now that he loves me and that he always did love me." I said, "Oh, okay." I said, "Are you gonna talk to him about how you've been feeling? You gonna talk to him about this?" She said, "No need. I have no need. Because now I know he loves me, and that's all I needed to know." And I learned a lot from her, because in that moment I realized that her needs were being fulfilled in a very different way to what I had anticipated. And I would say, you know, when it comes to relationships, of course it's important to communicate, and when you have a situation where you feel betrayed, it's, it's vital often to be able to talk about your feelings and come to an understanding of each other's boundaries and the, how the relationship's gonna move forward and so on. But she, she just knew. She, in the instant that she offered her forgiveness, she didn't have to say a word.

    27. RC

      Yeah. It, that is a brilliant case. And you just said it, Gemma. You said it's, it's vital often to talk and communicate about what has happened, right? Often, not always.

    28. GN

      Not always.

    29. RC

      Right? And that's what that case taught you. I think it's what it taught me when I read it, because it goes back to what we were talking about earlier on, Gemma, about as humans we get biased by our own experiences.

    30. GN

      Mm.

  13. 1:48:52 – 1:55:33

    Practical tools to apply it: tapping (EFT) and the “power of three” (plants, peace, purpose)

    1. GN

      Oh, yes. [laughs] Exactly. Um, and so I wanted to incorporate some very practical tips. So things like, oh, for example, there's so many, but tapping, we didn't really talk about tapping and the emotional freedom technique, but that's a lovely thing that people can implement.

    2. RC

      Do you wanna just outline tapping? What is it?

    3. GN

      Yeah. It's- It's a lovely physical tool that combines psychological techniques with a, a, a physical, um, action that helps you to recalibrate the way you're thinking about a certain, uh, struggle. So it allows you to imagine a certain thing you're going through, um, and scale it on 1 to 10, and then you just use a simple tapping technique and a mantra to help you feel as though that problem is diminishing. It touches on certain pressure points in the body, um, but it, it's a combination of physical and psychological therapy.

    4. RC

      C- can you give us an example and demonstrate?

    5. GN

      Yes. All right. So say for example you had a physical pain in your body. Um, you'd rate it from 1 to 10, uh, 1 being mild, 10 being excruciating, and you might say a phrase to yourself about that pain. So for example you might say, um, "Even though I have this pain, I love and accept myself," as an example. And then you use the tapping to repeat the phrase either out loud or in your own head. And so you start off here at the side of the hand and you tap with one or two fingers and you say, "Even though I have this pain, I love and accept myself." And you can repeat the tapping or you can repeat the phrase maybe a couple of times, seven, eight taps, and then you do it in three places on your head. So you do it above your eye. Even though I have this pain, I love and accept myself. You can do it on the side of the eye, on both sides or one. Even though I have this pain, I love and accept myself. You do it below the eye next. Even though I have this pain, I love and accept myself. Do it on the upper lip, so repeat the phrase. Even though I have this pain, I love and accept myself. Below the lip on the chin, you repeat the phrase. And then lastly, you do it underneath your ribcage. So you do it to the side where your bra strap is if you're a lady, and then you do it on top of your head as your last point. Even though I have this pain, I love and accept myself. It's a very simple sequence of movements that you can go through once or twice or however many times you want to, and then you can rate the pain again from 1 to 10, or the problem. Doesn't have to be a physical pain. It could be a problem that you're struggling with. And then eventually you should notice that your rating of the pain or the problem start to diminish, and it's a really calming exercise.

    6. RC

      Can people do that for other things that aren't, you know, related to physical pain?

    7. GN

      Absolutely. It's a psychological tool, so it could be for anything. It could be if you're struggling in your relationship or if you're struggling with a problem at work or if you're struggling with, um, well, anything really. You can just come up with a phrase-

    8. RC

      Yeah

    9. GN

      ... that helps you to accept the problem and accept yourself.

    10. RC

      The connection between the mind and the body, right?

    11. GN

      Yeah, exactly.

    12. RC

      And the, the physicality of it. I know many people have spoken about EFT in the past. Um, I know many people have shared with me they've had huge benefits from EFT, um, and tapping I should say. Do you cover any of the science in your book on-

    13. GN

      I do

    14. RC

      ... yeah.

    15. GN

      I do. There's a lot of science in the book. So obviously from our conversation people are getting a lot more in the way of storytelling, but there's hundreds of references-

    16. RC

      Yeah

    17. GN

      ... pertaining to each and every one of the things that you've talked about, which I love.

    18. RC

      Even on tapping?

    19. GN

      Even on tapping.

    20. RC

      Yeah.

    21. GN

      Yeah. It's a, it, it's a lovely way of actually being able to combine the, the physical and the mental. So yeah, I'm a big fan.

    22. RC

      Yeah.

    23. GN

      Yeah.

    24. RC

      And again, if, if it appeals to you and it's something you wanna do, great.

    25. GN

      It's free.

    26. RC

      If it doesn't, okay, fine, you don't have to do it.

    27. GN

      Exactly.

    28. RC

      There's other things, right?

    29. GN

      Exactly.

    30. RC

      So, so this power three, plants, peace, and purpose, how does someone use that in their life?

  14. 1:55:33 – 1:57:43

    Closing message: setbacks, self-compassion, and continuing the journey

    1. RC

      Not at all. Final question, Gemma. We've, we've spoken about a lot of different themes and concepts today. For that person who is struggling in their life, who has tried before, who's got on a particular program and felt the improvement, but has slipped back again and thinks that, "Real change ain't happening for me."

    2. GN

      Mm.

    3. RC

      "I'm stuck here. It doesn't matter what I try, nothing ever seems to work," what are your final words to them?

    4. GN

      Gotta come back to self-compassion. There's no point beating yourself up about things that have happened before. For me, in the book, what I've done is I've really tried to help hold people by the hand through some of the changes that they might wanna make, and there's sections in there for when you fail, when you perceive that you've failed, when you have setbacks, when things go wrong. When you feel as though you're back to square one, you're not, because every single part of the journey that you've had so far has brought you to this place, and that is the key, I think. Looking at it with complete self-compassion and thankfulness for every single thing that you've tried before. How amazing is it that somebody has cared enough about their health and their life to wanna make a difference and to, to try something new? That's what they need to focus on, that they've been willing to try.

    5. RC

      Gemma, love the book, love the conversation. Thanks for coming on the show.

    6. GN

      Thank you, Rangan. And I very much love talking to you always. [laughs]

    7. RC

      [upbeat music] If you enjoyed that, I think you are really going to enjoy this conversation about the most important things that you can do right now for your health and longevity.

    8. GN

      If at 37 your limit is just being able to run that 30-minute park run, at 75 you're gonna have a very difficult time getting around

Episode duration: 1:57:44

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