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Dr Rangan ChatterjeeDr Rangan Chatterjee

Toxic World of Self Help: Hustle Culture, Fake Positivity, Addiction & Pursuing Money | Robin Sharma

Is it time to redefine what it means to live a rich life? In a world where we're constantly bombarded with images of material success, it's easy to fall into the trap of comparing ourselves to others and believing that more money means…

Dr. Rangan ChatterjeehostRobin Sharmaguest
Jul 17, 20241h 34mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 3:17

    Toxic Ideas in Self-Help: Forced Positivity and Self-Help Addiction

    1. RC

      You have been in the self-help world for several decades now. In your view, what are some of the toxic ideas that are perpetuated in that world that you think are unhelpful?

    2. RS

      [laughs] Getting dangerous right from the first minute.

    3. RC

      [laughs]

    4. RS

      No, it's an excellent question. Well, I think my previous book before The Wealth Money Can't Buy, there was a chapter in it called The Big Lie of Positive Thinking.

    5. RC

      Yeah.

    6. RS

      And I think our world has, in self-help, sold us, you know, just be positive all the time. If s- if you're experiencing heartbreak, you're going through a tragedy, look for the gold. I think that's very dangerous. It's to- definitely toxic optimism because what you then do is you swallow the native feelings that surface in a difficult time, such as anger and disappointment and shame and sorrow and frustration. So I think positive thinking is incredibly important, but not at the expense of ignoring the human feelings that come up in whatever the situation is. So that would be one. I think another point that might be a little unhelpful is there might be an inflated sense of what a human being can achieve. I mean, I really am a possibilitarian. I feel deeply about the potential of human beings. But we can't be great at everything. The good news is we can all be great at something. We can all u- install new belief systems, better habits, better routines, better rituals, and live far greater lives. But that doesn't mean we're all going to be able to do everything.

    7. RC

      Yeah.

    8. RS

      So I think that'd be the second belief. The third belief would be, I think sometimes people get addicted to self-help.

    9. RC

      Yeah.

    10. RS

      It becomes like a drug of choice. Let me go to the next event. Let me sign up for the next digital course.

    11. RC

      Yeah.

    12. RS

      Let me read the next book. Without taking great information and then executing on it and making it automatic and a part of your way of being. I think often what we do is we pick up these escapes to avoid dealing with our wounds and our limitations and looking in the mirror.

    13. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    14. RS

      And, uh, and self-help can be, can be a, an addiction that causes us to avoid dealing with reality.

    15. RC

      Yeah. I appreciate you sharing that. It's interesting, as I was listening to your answers there, it feels as though those ideas, or a lot of them, have merit, but not when taken to an extreme. So being able to be positive is a good thing, but not if you're expecting yourself to have positive thoughts every single hour of the day. You ... I think you mentioned look for the gold in tragedy. Well, I think certainly in your new book, The Wealth Money Can't Buy, there are elements of, you know, how we can use hard times in life to grow. But I think what you're saying there is that we have to acknowledge that this is hard, this is a tragedy. We need to take a bit of time first before we start looking for the gold. Is that what you're getting at?

  2. 3:17 – 7:07

    Feel the Pain First: Processing Emotions and Forgiveness

    1. RS

      Yeah. So what I'm saying is our society has almost told us not to feel.

    2. RC

      Yeah.

    3. RS

      And so, Rangan, what we do is we are a species that live in our heads. And if you live in your head, well, then you're gonna have war and selfishness and egoism.

    4. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    5. RS

      But if you ha- have a strong head... M- Nelson Mandela said it well, very well. He said, uh, "A strong heart and a clear head is a formidable combination."

    6. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    7. RS

      So positive thinking is absolutely important, but before that, let's say someone's going through a divorce, an illness-

    8. RC

      Mm

    9. RS

      ... a loss. If you just shift, like the positive thinking books say, "Shift to positive thinking-

    10. RC

      Mm

    11. RS

      ... do your gratitude lists and be happy, happy, happy," but you've got a broken heart. So what I'm suggesting, and it's contrary to society, and, and now of course, people are suggesting it now, which is wonderful, but I'm suggesting if you have a broken heart, don't run away from it, run into it. Alanis Morissette, old song, "Quickest way out is in." So go into the broken heart.

    12. RC

      Yeah.

    13. RS

      And I've had a broken heart, and what I've learned is pain is an incredible purifier, and if you actually build intimacy with the pain and the sorrow or the anger... Or let's say you're an entrepreneur and you're feeling jealous scrolling and seeing other people's-

    14. RC

      Mm

    15. RS

      ... amazing lives. Don't shift to positive thinking. That's called denial. You'll swallow and repress-

    16. RC

      Mm

    17. RS

      ... those emotions, and they build into what I call a field of hurt-

    18. RC

      Mm

    19. RS

      ... which leads to, as you know better than most, it leads to inflam- inflammation, it leads to dis-ease, et cetera. Process through that pain-

    20. RC

      Yeah

    21. RS

      ... whether it's jealousy or sadness, and once... And, and then a time will come where you're, you're releasing the emotions and then almost natively and naturally you can go to positivity, but it, it, it will come as a process.

    22. RC

      Yeah. It reminds me a bit of a conversation I had a few weeks ago now with Professor Fred Luskin. So he is in charge of the Stanford University Forgiveness Projects. He's been studying forgiveness for over 30 years and has shown in his research that being able to move on, let go of the past, and forgive can help us reduce blood pressure, lower anxiety, depression, help reduce our perception of pain, can help improve the intimacy in our relationships. But importantly, what he said is that you can't rush it. You have to feel the pain first, and sometimes it's gonna take a year or two years for some of these big traumatic events for people to actually ... process and feel it before you can actually move on to the next stage, which is learning the skill of letting go. So I, I think that was quite nice how it echoed what y- what you're saying as well.

    23. RS

      Absolutely. There's an idea that I think is very powerful, and hopefully it'll bring value to your millions of viewers from around the world, which is heal what hurts you so you don't bleed on people who did not cut you. And if you're an entrepreneur, this is relevant. In productivity, we often don't talk about forgiveness.

    24. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    25. RS

      But if you haven't forgiven someone, one of the first chapters of The Wealth Money Can't Buy, be not a resentment collector.

    26. RC

      Yeah.

    27. RS

      If you're full of resentment, well then you have a barrier and a block between intimacy with your creativity, productivity, and prosperity. You can learn all the productivity hacks and join the 5:00 AM club and have schedules, but if deep within you haven't worked on your emotional architecture-

    28. RC

      Yeah

    29. RS

      ... through the work we're talking about, you'll always sabotage yourself, and I think that's one of the missing links for elite performance.

  3. 7:07 – 9:18

    The Four Interior Empires

    1. RS

      So many pundits say mindset is everything. Mindset is everything. I think mindset is something, but in my work I teach the four interior empires. There's mindset, which is our psychology. Of course, that's important. You're absolutely right. Your deepest beliefs drive your daily behavior, and often it's our subconscious beliefs and our early childhood programs.

    2. RC

      Yeah.

    3. RS

      Second interior empire, our heartset. So we have a psychology, but as a human being, you and I have an emotional life. So let's purify and work on our heartset so there's more awe, wonder, grace, celebration for other people.

    4. RC

      Yeah.

    5. RS

      After mindset and heartset, there's healthset. We have a physicality-

    6. RC

      Hmm

    7. RS

      ... energy, longevity, vitality. And then the fourth interior empire, soulset. We have a spiritual life, whether people wanna acknowledge it or not, and the good news is more people in the world are embracing spirituality. And I'm not at all speaking about religion. I'm simply saying when we were born, we have a heroic self. This is our truest self.

    8. RC

      Mm.

    9. RS

      This is the voice of wisdom. This is how resilient we are. This is our loving heart. This is intimacy with our gifts and our talents. We have a greatness inside of us, and society almost stuffs it out of us-

    10. RC

      Hmm

    11. RS

      ... or programs it out of us. And so soulset is simply building a greater relationship with your heroic self and starting to turn down the voice of your egoic self. And when you work on the four interior empires-

    12. RC

      Yeah

    13. RS

      ... you build a relationship with yourself, and your relationship with yourself drives every other relationship in your life.

    14. RC

      Is that one of the other sort of toxic ideas that are out there that the self-help world sometimes perpetuates, this idea that you can always do more, you know, you can be more productive, you can work harder, you can hustle through? Because in some ways that's gonna feed our egoic self and not our heroic self, right?

  4. 9:18 – 13:01

    Hustle Culture, Rest and Climbing the Wrong Mountain

    1. RS

      Yeah, absolutely great connection. And, and I wish I had said that when you had asked me what are some of the toxic beliefs. I think hustling, grinding your way to world class is a deeply toxic belief. Let's go to the science. If you look, for example, at the work of The Energy Project, they have found the most productive people are actually l- like sprinters versus marathoners. The research actually shows the most productive people work in intense bursts of elite performance, and guess what they do after that? Rest and recover. And you're a scientist-

    2. RC

      Mm

    3. RS

      ... for sure. You know that in rest, non-working, in rest and recovery and true recreation, that is when memories are crystallized. That is when new connections-

    4. RC

      Yeah

    5. RS

      ... are formed that solve great problems. We know that there's a mechanism when you sleep where the brain almost washes itself. So rest is not a luxury. Rest is a necessity. So this hustle and grind thing is dangerous, and, and The Wealth Money Can't Buy speaks to a key p- point, which is our society has us hustling, grinding to make more money, to get more things-

    6. RC

      Mm-hmm

    7. RS

      ... to get more likes, and it has so many of us climbing a mountain that I humbly predict at the end of a quarter, end of a year, end of a career, end of a lifetime will make us feel we spent our finest hours climbing the wrong mountain.

    8. RC

      Is that a mistake you made earlier on in your life?

    9. RS

      Yes. I was a litigation lawyer. I became a litigation lawyer because the world, in many ways, suggests if you become a professional, you're gonna wake up happy. So I did a law degree. I did a master's of law degree. I was working at a big firm. I was making great money. I had a beautiful car, beautiful home, and the only problem is I'd wake up, and I'd look in the mirror, and I didn't like the person who was looking back at me, and what's the point of worldly success if you lose your soul in the process? Makes me think of what Jim Carrey said. "I wish everyone could be rich and famous so they'd realize it doesn't make a difference."

    10. RC

      Yeah. It's a powerful phrase from Jim Carrey. I wonder sometimes, because I've been talking about this idea for a while now as well, that success is not necessarily the same thing as happiness. It can be if you're very intentional, but often if you get seduced by culture's definition of success, perhaps family, perhaps societal's definition, you can often get that level of success. Sounds like you did as a lawyer. Yet you find that there's something missing. So it's fascinating for me as to where do these ideas come from, and I, I wonder about your sort of childhoods. You know, where were your parents from? Are they from a different country?

    11. RS

      My dad is fr- uh, went to medical school in, uh, Agra.

    12. RC

      Yeah, in India.

    13. RS

      In India. So he's from the north of India. My mom is from Nairobi. They met in East Africa. I was born in East Africa. And, um, yeah, a family that valued a lot of achievement.

    14. RC

      Yeah. Very, very similar with me. And so that Jim Carrey phrase, I wonder sometimes, is it easy to understand that when you've got the success and can say then, "Oh, this doesn't make you happy"? Because I'm just trying to play devil's advocate there. I completely subscribe to that view.

  5. 13:01 – 19:04

    Money, Wealth and the Wealth Money Can't Buy

    1. RC

      But what if someone is listening to this, Robin, and they're struggling in their life? They don't have enough money, let's say. They are always wondering about the next paycheck. How am I gonna feed my family? How am I gonna pay the mortgage? I wonder how that message lands for that individual compared to someone who has already achieved it.

    2. RS

      Well, I have two replies to that, Rangan. The first thing I would say is, for 15-plus years, I've mentored celebrity billionaires, sports superstars, entertainment royalty-

    3. RC

      Yeah

    4. RS

      ... heads of state, and many of these people have a lot of money, but they're cash rich, life poor. Second way I'd offer a response, I'd offer to your question is, the book is based around the eight forms of wealth.

    5. RC

      Yeah.

    6. RS

      The fifth form, form of wealth is money.

    7. RC

      Yeah.

    8. RS

      I am in no way saying money is in- unimportant, especially now, polycrisis, cost of living crisis. We all know we all need money to put food on the family table, to pay for our responsibilities, to take care of our families-

    9. RC

      Mm-hmm

    10. RS

      ... and to do good things for people we need if there's some left over. So there's 25 chapters in the book deconstructing the mentalities, habits, blueprints of the billionaires I've mentored. So I'm not saying money is not important. I think it's very important. That's why it's the fifth form of wealth. I'm actually not even saying the accumulation of things-

    11. RC

      Mm

    12. RS

      ... is wrong. I don't know about you, but I'd rather stay in a nice hotel room than a flea bag. [laughs] I'd rather have a, you know, a comfortable pair of boots than cheap boots.

    13. RC

      Yeah.

    14. RS

      So I think as human beings, if you like beauty, and I love beauty, and we're all sensitive creatures. I love flowers, and well, if you like flowers, why not beautiful material things as well?

    15. RC

      Yeah.

    16. RS

      So there's nothing wrong with those things. I think the danger comes when they become your gods versus your masters.

    17. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    18. RS

      And I think the danger comes when you define yourself in the world by your car, your things-

    19. RC

      Yeah

    20. RS

      ... and your money.

    21. RC

      Having spent decades working with some of the elite performers and business people in society, you've taught those people lots of different things. Do you think that what you've learnt from those guys is applicable to the man or woman on the street, or do those guys live completely different lives?

    22. RS

      Well, I think for, in my experience, these people have, these high net, ultra-high-net-worth people, have everything that so many people think is success.

    23. RC

      Yeah.

    24. RS

      And this gets back to the cultural hypnosis, and it goes very deep. It starts off when we're young. There's-

    25. RC

      Mm-hmm

    26. RS

      ... the, one of the chapters, learn the PENAM principle, those five forces that shape-

    27. RC

      Yeah

    28. RS

      ... our programming and our filter on which we see the world, and it starts off very young, and so we pedestal the billionaire and the decamillionaire, et cetera, et cetera. In my experience, I would say most of these people are on the mountaintop financially and commercially. I'd say most of them, money's all they have. So many of them, their children won't talk to them. So many of them medicate themselves in various-

    29. RC

      Mm

    30. RS

      ... forms to get through their days. So many of them have created so much complexity in, in their life. I g- I've got to tell you, two of the happiest people I've ever met, one was my ski instructor. When I was in my 40s, I, I got this idea I wanted to be a level one ski instructor, and so I, I worked with this amazing ski instructor, sparkle in his eye, beautiful family life. He'd just ski in the mountains all day. And as we were going up the chairlift one day, he said, "You know, Robin, us ski instructors are not rich, but we have rich lives." And, and I th- think that's a really powerful point, and that's really what I'm talking about.

  6. 19:04 – 24:28

    Self-Publishing The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari and Getting the Job Done

    1. RC

      Your parents, I'm sure, are very proud of you and seeing the impact you're having on the world. What was it like for them, though, when you were transitioning from Robin Sharma the lawyer, the successful lawyer, to Robin Sharma the successful, you know, guru, the successful author-

    2. RS

      Well-

    3. RC

      ... the self-help guy?

    4. RS

      Well, yeah, I don't, I don't consider myself a guru. I have so much work to do. [laughs] I'm a work in progress, uh, but I've come a long way thanks to my inner work. Externally, my parents were really supportive. But even last night at the, at the book event, people were asking them like, "How did you feel?"

    5. RC

      Okay.

    6. RS

      Mom was ... I called Mom after the event and she said, "Oh, people were so nice to us."

    7. RC

      [laughs]

    8. RS

      "And they were, and they were asking, you know, what was it like when Robin was self-publish..." I started off as a self-published author. I printed 5,000 copies. I wrote the book, the first book, The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari in a 24-hour copy shop. It just started from incredibly simple beginnings.

    9. RC

      I, I had no idea till yesterday when I was researching for this show that you self-published that. I just assumed that that was a big publishing deal with a major publishing house.

    10. RS

      So I had a vision of writing this book. I put my heart and my soul in the book, self-published it. Right? Like we can make excuses or get results. We can't do both. And I think in our world right now, a lot of us are giving away our power to external conditions-

    11. RC

      Mm-hmm

    12. RS

      ... and we're, we are being victims, and we all can fall into that trap. I'm not saying I don't fall into that on some days or at some times as well.

    13. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    14. RS

      But victims are about CBE, complaint-

    15. RC

      Yeah

    16. RS

      ... blame and excuse, and we give away our power. And I think if you look at anyone who does something beautifully creative or a great love enterprise or a great spiritual affair, these people all say, "Okay, here's the opportunity and I'm gonna get the job done. As simple as it sounds, I'm gonna get the job done." And when people laugh at you, you get the job done, and when there's limitations, you get the job done. You know, what made Apple Apple under Steve Jobs is most of his competitors, every time there was a vision and the team brought a constraint, they diluted the vision to adapt to the constraint, if that makes sense.

    17. RC

      Mm.

    18. RS

      What Steve Jobs did, for example, six weeks before the Apple shipped the iPhone, he said, "You know, I want this special type of glass on the iPhone," six weeks away from shipping.

    19. RC

      Wow.

    20. RS

      And his team said, "Well, there is no glass like this on planet Earth." And Steve Jobs wasn't interested in anything but getting the job done. And six weeks later, Corning made the glass and the Apple iPhone shipped with that glass because Steve Jobs wanted the iPhone to be so beautiful people would lick the screen. [laughs] And so the point is, I've learned, I've learned that you've just, whether it's a marathon or healing or starting a business, you've just got to get the job done in this world where so many people are giving away their power. And so, yes, I said I want to write this book. I found a 24-hour copy shop. I would go in there. I had to be at work at 8:00 as a litigation lawyer. I was up at 4:00, 5:00. I then printed about 5,000 copies. You know this. You're a very successful author. But I would leave five copies with the bookstore on consignment. They wouldn't even pay.

    21. RC

      What does consignment mean?

    22. RS

      Consignment means we're not gonna pay for your book. You can sign it with us. We'll put it on the shelf. If it doesn't sell, come back, anonymous author, and pick up your books. We're not gonna pay you.

    23. RC

      Yeah. Okay.

    24. RS

      But someone in publishing told me if you sign the books, if an author signs the books, the bookstore can't return them. So I'd go to all the bookstores-

    25. RC

      [laughs]

    26. RS

      ... [laughs] and I'd be signing the books. And one night I was signing the book and my son Colby, he was about four years old at the time, signing the books at the front and there was a gentleman looking at me and he goes, "Wow, The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari. What a great title. Tell me more." I said, "I'm a litigation lawyer, but this is my mission and here's the book." And after about five minutes he goes, "This is really interesting. I'm gonna give you my card." Looked at his card, Ed Carson, president, HarperCollins, and they bought the world rights for $7,500 and that book has now sold probably over 10, 12 million copies.

    27. RC

      Do you believe in fate?

    28. RS

      I believe heaven helps those who help themselves.

    29. RC

      Mm.

    30. RS

      I believe it's a, it's a, it's one of the key philosophical questions, isn't it? I believe we must do our part. We must mine our talents. We must turn failure into fuel. We must [laughs] install great habits, treat people well, do great work, and then let go and let God.

  7. 24:28 – 31:37

    Hard Work vs Hustle: Twin Cycles and the Eight Forms of Wealth

    1. RC

      When you were getting up early to print the book and then get to work by eight o'clock, could we make the case that part of that was hustle culture because you had to hustle, because you were where you didn't want to be? So temporarily in, in order to leave law and follow your heart and your mission and get to where you wanted to be, you had to hustle. And I guess the point I'm trying to get to is, is it okay to hustle for a bit if you need to, to change your trajectory? Is the problem when the hustle culture becomes like everything that you do?

    2. RS

      The first thing I would say is, how are we defining hustle culture?

    3. RC

      Yeah.

    4. RS

      Hustle culture, and, and I believe you're saying this as well, hustle culture doesn't... If you're against hustle culture, you are, I am, we don't subscribe to it, let's say.

    5. RC

      Yeah.

    6. RS

      That doesn't mean you don't do hard work. [laughs]

    7. RC

      Yeah.

    8. RS

      Hard work has got a dirty name in society right now. The Taj Mahal was built with hard work. The Sistine Chapel ceiling was filled with hard work. Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata took hard work. J.D. Salinger's Catcher in the Rye took hard work. Uh, you know, all-- look at all the, uh, uh, companies now, whether it's Apple, Nvidia, um, Tesla, these companies all re- a great love story. I, I have a great partner in my life. Her name is Al. I, I sh- I don't know if that's the best example because it's pretty easy with, with her and us. It's, it's the most remarkable relationship. There's not a lot of hard work, but you have to put in the effort. So I think hustle and grind only becomes toxic when it dominates your life.

    9. RC

      Yeah.

    10. RS

      And there are a lot of people, uh, you see them on the internet saying, "I need to put in sixteen hours, seventeen hours a day and outwork everyone around you."

    11. RC

      Mm.

    12. RS

      So hustle and grind culture, I believe is unhealthy, but no one's saying commitment, putting in the sweat equity required.

    13. RC

      Yeah.

    14. RS

      But then I go to this, i- in part of my methodology, I have a, a model called the twin cycles of elite performance. So if you can imagine a circle, the first cycle is the high excellence cycle.

    15. RC

      Mm.

    16. RS

      This is maybe four days a week, or it could be a month, or it could be a season where you are working on what I call in the Wealth Money Can't Buy, your Project X, your piece of magic-

    17. RC

      Yeah

    18. RS

      ... where you put it out in the world, and it's that one thing that wows all witnesses. That's the high excellence cycle. But then without the deep recovery cycle, you are going to deplete what I call your assets of genius.

    19. RC

      Mm.

    20. RS

      So if all you're doing is hustling and grinding, you're gonna deplete your willpower, for example, your cognitive bandwidth, for example, your inspiration, your health is gonna suffer, et cetera. So I believe a great life is a series of seasons, seasons of working and seasons of resting and recovering and enjoying. And those seasons can take place within a year or even within a day. Third thing I would say very quickly is, I love what Gandhi said. He said, "I have much to accomplish today, therefore, I must meditate two hours rather than one." So I think, I think it's important to rest, and with the rest and recovery, you're gonna do even better work. And then the final thing I'd say is, I don't want anyone to think The Wealth Money Can't Buy is about hustling and grinding. That's the whole idea of-

    21. RC

      Yeah

    22. RS

      ... the eight forms of wealth.

    23. RC

      I got it. Yeah.

    24. RS

      Right? The f- the fourth form of wealth is craft. That's all about productivity, pushing magic into the marketplace, finding meaning in your work. But what's the second one? Wellness. What's the third form of wealth? Family. We're gonna get into those, but family. What's the seventh form of wealth? Adventure. So the eight forms of wealth when fed will live you, give you your richest life.

    25. RC

      Yeah. I, I love the way you have almost put a new spin on wealth in the new book. 'Cause I think if you talk to a lot of people about wealth, money is the thing that comes to mind, right? Again, that could be cultural conditioning. I actually looked up wealth in the Oxford Dictionary this morning, and there's two definitions, but one of them is, "A plentiful supply of a particularly desirable thing." I thought that definition spoke beautifully to your book because a plentiful supply, so abundance of a particularly desirable thing. So kind of infused within that definition is what do you find desirable, right? And I think that speaks gorgeously to these eight forms of wealth. Because if you're only valuing money in your life and not family and craft and community and adventure and service and all these other forms of wealth that you write about, then you're gonna go down a path, and your actions and your behaviors each day are worshiping the god of money. But if you desire your health and you desire your family, you know, these are things you value Then the meaning of wealth is gonna be very different, isn't it? Just taking a quick break to give a shout-out to VIVOBAREFOOT shoes. Now, I've been a huge fan of VIVOBAREFOOT for over 10 years now, well before they started supporting my podcast. They are the only shoes that I wear, and they really have had a huge impact on my own life and the lives of many of my patients. You see, when people start wearing minimalist shoes like Vivos, you can see improvements in things like back pain, hip pain, knee pain, foot pain. Even things like plantar fasciitis can often get better. And scientific research shows us that just wearing Vivos for about four months or so improves the strength in your feet by over 60%, which is absolutely incredible. One thing people don't realize about these shoes is just how flexible they are, which allows your feet to do what your feet naturally want to do rather than the shoe dictating your foot's movement. VIVOBAREFOOT are giving my audience a 15% off one-time code when you make your first order, and they make it really easy for you to give them a try. They give a 100-day trial for new customers, so if you don't like them, you just send them back for a full refund. I'm a huge fan. I really hope you take advantage of this offer. To get your 15% off code, all you need to do is go to vivobarefoot.com/livemore or click on the link in the description box below.

  8. 31:37 – 39:19

    Perfect Moments, Hedonic Adaptation and a Bad Day for the Ego

    1. RS

      It's, it's, it's very true. I love that definition. It's really about prosperity.

    2. RC

      Mm.

    3. RS

      Prosperity of human connections, prosperity of graceful moments. I ha- I had one of the first mornings totally free yesterday morning, and I found this secret garden here in London, and there were actually bees. There were bees, and there were flowers, and it was just this perfect moment. And to me, that does speak to wealth, the wealth of beauty. Um, in the book, I... One chapter is Be a Perfect Moment Creator-

    4. RC

      Mm

    5. RS

      ... and I think this is a form of wealth a- according to the def- definition you read. So Eugene O'Kelly was the CEO of KPMG, you know, the global accounting behemoth.

    6. RC

      Mm.

    7. RS

      And one day he walked into his physician's office to receive the results of a routine medical, and the physician came back in, the doctor came back in with an expression you never wanna see on the doctor's face when you are waiting for your results. And the doctor said, "You have 90 days left to live, approximately. You have inoperable brain cancer." And sadly, he passed away roughly 90 days later. But Rangan confronted with his mortality, and I'd love to talk a bit more about-

    8. RC

      Mm

    9. RS

      ... the power of mortality and intimacy with it. But confronted with his mortality, he decided to use the business skills he'd used as a corporate titan and reverse engineer the last 90 days of his life to be what he called a perfect moment creator.

    10. RC

      Mm.

    11. RS

      Because he had realized in all his years as a mogul, he had never taken his wife to lunch, he had missed Christmas concerts with his daughter, and he'd never taken long walks with his great friends in Central Park. And so that's what he did. In, in an act of wi- great wisdom, in his last 90 days, he just looked for these moments that filled him with awe and wonder and joyfulness and peace. And so I think that's often worth more than millions in the bank.

    12. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    13. RS

      I mean, we remember those things-

    14. RC

      Yeah

    15. RS

      ... and they stay in our hearts and souls with us much more than any kind of a win. And if we go to the science again, because again, I know you're a scientist, look at the work of Sonja Lyubomirsky, one of the preeminent positive psychologists, and she talks about hedonic adaptation.

    16. RC

      Yeah.

    17. RS

      And as you know, hedonic adaptation means you say, "Oh, I wish I had a million." You get the million, it feels good for a little while, and then it becomes your new normal. You say, "I wanna get a Ferrari, and then my problems will be all okay." You get the Ferrari, you drive it around for a while, and it becomes your new normal, and then it becomes a drug of choice, and you want the next Ferrari.

    18. RC

      Mm.

    19. RS

      So there's nothing wrong with having your material ambitions-

    20. RC

      Mm

    21. RS

      ... not at all, fifth form of wealth, but if we think, myself included, if we think getting those things will make us feel better, I think we're just mesmerizing ourself and deluding ourself because the Zen proverb says it really well, "Wherever you go, there you are."

    22. RC

      Yeah. A bad day for the ego is a great day for the soul. What does that mean?

    23. RS

      Let's say you've had a bad day. Let's say you've had a bad year. Let's say you've had a bad decade. What does the ego say? "Get me out of this. Can't stand this. Why me? Why did they do that to me?" Makes you feel miserable. But a bad day for the ego is a great day for the soul because it is our troubles and our tragedies and our difficulties that introduce us to a-

    24. RC

      Mm

    25. RS

      ... wisdom. When do we re- read the wisdom literature? Kali- Kahlil Gibran's The Prophet or the wisdom books. I don't know about you, Rangan, but when I've been in the seasons of difficulty and in the winters of suffering, that's when I go to, to wisdom most. So I've, I... We learn wisdom in difficulty. We learn forgiveness in difficulty. We write hundreds of pages in our journals, pouring out our pain and confusion and difficulty.

    26. RC

      Mm.

    27. RS

      We ask ourselves the big questions, "Why am I here? What's it all about? How can I improve?"

    28. RC

      Yeah.

    29. RS

      We learn self-love in difficulty, and we learn how strong we are in difficulty. So the ego says troubles and challenges are a bad thing, but the soul understands that- Our problems are incredible teachers. There's a chapter in The Wealth Money Can't Buy, your herders are your-

    30. RC

      Yeah

  9. 39:19 – 46:41

    Hang with Clowns, Expect a Circus: Choosing Your Associations

    1. RC

      The chapter straight after that is Hang with Clowns, Expect a Circus.

    2. RS

      It's true, no? [laughs]

    3. RC

      Well, I love the title. Can you explain what it is for people?

    4. RS

      Well, let's again go to the science, uh, and I think about Nicholas Christakis at Harvard University.

    5. RC

      I thought, I thought you were gonna say the science of clowns then. [laughs]

    6. RS

      The sci- science of clowns. No, it's, it's not a, it's not a study, but it would be fascinating.

    7. RC

      That would be great. [laughs]

    8. RS

      Like what makes people become a clown-

    9. RC

      Yeah

    10. RS

      ... and what is the psychology of clownship? Uh, I think about Nicholas Christakis at Harvard University.

    11. RC

      Yeah.

    12. RS

      And he has found that through, and we can get into it, and I'm sure you know all about it, but through the phenomenon of emotional contagion, which simply stated means we adopt the, um, dominant emotions of the people we are around, and through a type of brain cell called the mirror neuron, which causes us to mimic the people we are around, he has found that we actually start to model and behave like our friends.

    13. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    14. RS

      But here's what I love. We actually not only behave like our friends, but the friends of our friends, and the friends of our friends' friends. So we become our associations, and so hang with clowns, expect a circus. It's if you hang with energy vampires, if you hang with naysayers, if you hang with toxic people, if you hang with people who are all about the worst of humanity-

    15. RC

      Mm-hmm

    16. RS

      ... versus are, they're interested in beauty and magic and living a great family life and great spiritual life and building great health and making the world a brighter place, well, you hang with clowns, you expect a circus, and then you can figure out why your life is a mess, because you've allowed these peop- It's not, it's, it's not all the reasons, but one of the reasons our lives get messy is when we let toxic people into our lives and, and it's a li- it's an act of radical self-growth to ask yourself, "Who are the three people that d- degrade my joy, and who are the three people that elevate my joy?" And having the courage to release those three energy vampires and dreas- dream stealers in your life changes your life. Now, people always say, "But what if it's my mother?"

    17. RC

      Yeah.

    18. RS

      "What if it's my best friend?" And I would say, reason, season, lifetime. Some people come into your life for a reason, some for a season, some for a lifetime, and maybe if your friend isn't growing with you, even though they've been your best friend for 10 years, love them from afar.

    19. RC

      Some people are gonna hear that and go, "That's really, really challenging." Okay, I get what you're saying. You know, there's a, there's a video you've got on YouTube, Six Things You Wish You Learned at 20, and the first one was delete people who steal your joy, which I think very much speaks to what you've just been talking about. As you've acknowledged, people will say, "But it's my mom, it's my dad, it's my brother, it's my childhood friend." Do you have any Practical advice on how they can actually do that?

    20. RS

      Sure. First thing I would do is have a candid conversation. Sit down with your brother and just, and without blame, say, "Here's how I'm feeling." Blame someone, they're gonna go on the defense. You want them to hear you, "Here's how I'm feeling. I just shared I wanted to run a marathon," or, "I just shared I wanted to start a business or write a book or... And you immediately said it's not possible or be more practical. Here-- And it happens every single time we meet. You find something pro- uh, probably not intentional, but you find something that makes me feel bad, and I just wanted to share that with you. And I love you as a brother, and I pray there's some way we can find it so we can spill- still spend time together. But you realize how it makes me feel." So that's one way. Have a great conversation, which is really rare.

    21. RC

      Yeah.

    22. RS

      We don't know how to com-- A lot of us don't know how to communicate, right? It's like, "You did this. You're a brother. You made me feel angry." So have a real communi- conversation. I believe you can say whatever you want to anyone, so long as you say it with respect.

    23. RC

      Yeah. It was so powerful what you said there. You're not, you're not trying to blame the other person, and I think that's the trap so many people fall into. They get agitated, they're emotionally triggered, and then they have the conversation which just leads to more emotion, more animosity. Whereas you said, just deal with the facts. Say, "Hey, you know, last week when I shared that with you, I noticed that you went to negativity straight away. Now, may not have been your intention, you may not meant that, but to me it comes across as if you're always trying to dampen or pour water on my dreams," or whatever it might be. It's a, it's a really... I think that's a very helpful tip for people.

    24. RS

      So it's, it's honoring you, it's honoring your happiness, and it's not dishonoring the person who you're-

    25. RC

      Yeah

    26. RS

      ... speaking with, and it can apply in a restaurant as well. If the food is bad, you don't have to swallow your disappointment. You've paid for the food. Honor yourself. But a lot of self-help people, they become very righteous, and so they say, "Oh, you know, I'm gonna speak my truth," and I can s- hurt people.

    27. RC

      Mm.

    28. RS

      I think if you're in a restaurant, if the salad was a mess, it was, like, soggy from too much vinegar, you could say... I, I'm just off the top of my head, you might say, "I, I found the, this [laughs] the salad w- had a little too much vinegar, uh, and I'd be so grateful if you could bring a fresh salad. I hope that's no trouble."

    29. RC

      Mm.

    30. RS

      And I've never, I've never experienced a situation where that's, where that's a problem. You treat people with respect, and it's ever so powerful. And then you asked for another, s- for some tips on, um, the relationship and re- relieving, removing-

  10. 46:41 – 1:00:47

    The 5 AM Club, the Victory Hour and the Five-Question Morning Maximiser

    1. RC

      You're well known, Robin, for starting this 5 AM Club movement. I know one of your previous books is The 5 AM Club. It sparked this global community of people who are getting up at 5:00 or getting up early to be intentional about their day. What would you say the similarity is or the connection between The 5 AM Club and The Wealth Money Can't Buy?

    2. RS

      When you get up at 5:00 AM, you experience a form of wealth money can't buy. When you get up before the sun, in this age of dramatic distraction, there's such a peace in the air. I think that's why the yogis... There's, you probably know the term in India, they call it Br- Brahmamuhurta. Brahma-

    3. RC

      Yeah

    4. RS

      ... and it's that time between 4:00 and 6:00, and that's when they believe your mantras are most powerful because you've cleansed the residue of the day through sleep. Your prayers are more easily heard. And when you read the wisdom scriptures, the wisdom goes deeper into your character and into your spirit. So I personally, now I get up at 4:00. I think 5:00 AM is the minimum viable [laughs] morning routine, and I can walk you through my morning routine now.

    5. RC

      Mm.

    6. RS

      But I think getting up early sets the tone of the day. The Spartan warriors used to say, "Sweat more in training and you'll bleed less in war." But getting up early and writing in a journal Getting up early and listening to some music, getting up early and praying or walking in the garden. You go out into the world and the tone and texture of your day is completely different. That's a form-

    7. RC

      Mm.

    8. RS

      It's not one of the eight forms of wealth, but if you ask me what's the linkage, I would say that one hour is, is, is, is wealth.

    9. RC

      Yeah. I mean, there's so much to say there. The other link for me is that The Wealth Money Can't Buy, for me at least, is really expanding out our idea of what wealth really means. You're saying it's not just money. Yes, that is a form of wealth, but it's also other things as well, and if you really wanna be holistically wealthy, authentically wealthy, you need to pay attention to all eight of these forms of wealth. So for me, the link, because I'm a huge fan of getting up early-

    10. RS

      Great

    11. RC

      ... and morning routines as well, right?

    12. RS

      Super.

    13. RC

      So I'm on side already. But I think that time to yourself each morning, the silence, the solitude, you get to know yourself better. You get to know when you're overworking or something is off in your life that needs addressing. So I think the link is, it is a practice that if you do it regularly, will help you attain these eight forms of wealth. That's the way I see the linkage, but perhaps you see it differently.

    14. RS

      I see it exactly as you see it. We will never rise any higher than we are.

    15. RC

      Mm.

    16. RS

      Our outer life reflects our inner growth. Our primary relationship with ourself, our mindset, four interior empires, mindset, headset, healthset, and soulset. Call those your character, your inner life, your intimacy with who you truly are. The more you can connect with your gifts and your talents, your true values, your native powers, who you were before the world taught you to disbelieve in yourself and become like everyone else you see on the selfie reels. The more you can spend time getting to know that person and building that person, the more every other relationship will be transformed. As you become stronger, more loving, more intimate with your gifts, the way you deal with your family's different, the way you deal with your friends is different.

    17. RC

      Yeah.

    18. RS

      As you take time while the rest of the world is asleep and you inspire yourself, you can inspire your teammates. Rest of the world is asleep. You're up at 5:00 AM, you're thinking about how you wanna live your day. What a radical concept. Thinking about how you want your day to unfold. Well, you'll be kinder to people in the streets, and if you stumble, you'll get back up. So that hour, I call it the victory hour in the 5 AM Club book, is one hour to make yourself stronger, wiser, more peaceful, more loving, more brave. Now, I'd like to be tactical and offer a tool. I call it the five-question morning maximiser.

    19. RC

      To make sure you're taking action after watching this video, I've created a free guide to help you build healthy habits. We can all make short-term change, but can those changes become a fundamental part of our life? Often they don't, and that's why in this free guide, I share with you the six crucial steps you need to take. They're really, really effective. If you wanna get hold of that free guide right now, all you have to do is click the link in the description box below.

    20. RS

      So let's say you're up. What do you do at 5:00 AM? We can get into it, but first thing you wanna do is sweaty exercise. It'll release dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, which builds focus. BD- BDNF, brain-derived neurotrophic factor, which promotes neurogenesis, the creation of new brain cells, helps you process more quickly, et cetera. So get the exercise done. On this book tour, I haven't felt like it, but after the workout, I'm happy I did it.

    21. RC

      So you're still doing it even on tour?

    22. RS

      Absolu- before I came here today, the, the book, the... I try to get in bed between 9:30 and 10:00 these days. Last night, Michal, who travels with me, you met him.

    23. RC

      Yeah.

    24. RS

      We got back to the hotel at, let's say 10:15 after the book signing. There were a lot of people there. We had a quick meal, because if I don't have a meal, I'm not gonna sleep well. But I got up... I'm not saying I'm a hero or anything, but I got up at 4:15-- uh, 4:45 today, and I got into the gym because I needed to do that to be here for you.

    25. RC

      Mm.

    26. RS

      If I missed my workout, I wouldn't have the energy and the cognitive ability to show up for you and your people today, so I needed to do it. And if I-- the o- I think one of the only, one of the main things that has got me through these nine weeks at the pace we've kept is the morning workout. So the five questions. Once you've done the workout, pull out your journal, have a cup of coffee. Coffee is a fantastic cognitive enh- enhancer, antioxidant. First question: What am I grateful for? We all hear everyone talking about gratitude. Gratitude is the antidote to fear. Write down what you're grateful for. The Persian proverb says, "I cursed the fact I had no shoes until I saw the man who had no feet." You have a roof over your head. You have work that allows you to contribute value. You have people who love you. You are a rich person. Second question: Where am I winning?

    27. RC

      Yeah.

    28. RS

      So for 20 years, I've been talking about micro wins, 1% wins. Now this idea is getting very popular, which isn't that a wonderful thing?

    29. RC

      Yeah.

    30. RS

      Because I think people understanding it's what you do each day, not what you do every year that makes a difference is powerful. So where am I winning? That will give you energy and protect your hope. Third question: What will I let go of? This is what we were saying.

  11. 1:00:47 – 1:13:06

    Pushback on Morning Routines, Phones and Attention Residue

    1. RC

      I'm very interested as to your thoughts, because I'm guessing you must have had some pushback against The 5AM Club, and I'm interested as to, first of all, how you would answer that question, but B, you know, what is some of the pushback that you've received and how do you counteract it?

    2. RS

      Sure. I think it's, it's very, it's a very fair point. What I hear is some people saying, "I'm a new parent-

    3. RC

      Yeah

    4. RS

      ... and it's very hard." I also get, "I do shift work." It's so sincere, like they wanna-

    5. RC

      Yeah

    6. RS

      ... they wanna join-

    7. RC

      Yeah

    8. RS

      ... the 5AM Club. They just say, "I have, I'm a shift worker, how do I do it?" So the first thing I'd say is, uh, I'm not interested in saying you need to do this. If you wanna experience the wonders of the 5AM Club, test it, and do it for a month and see if it's for you. But I would say stay open to it-

    9. RC

      Yeah

    10. RS

      ... versus... Because if you're not and someone says, "Let's go get Vietnamese food," and usually you eat Italian food, you might miss your new favorite food. And if you don't test it out, and I'm not talking for a week, test it out for a month, until you reach that point of automaticity and fluency with the new habit of getting up before the sun, you, you might miss something that changes your life. Last night at the book signing, I had so many people coming up to me saying, "The 5AM Club changed my life." There's one gentleman in particular, and it, it moved me.

    11. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    12. RS

      He said, "I was a drug addict. I read The 5AM Club. I've launched my own business." He said, "I made 100,000 profit last year." So try it. If it's not for you, hey, we can still be friends. Be a night owl, no sweat. Then, yes, I totally hear the parent issue, but I just must report truth. There's a lot of parents who say, "I do The 5AM Club." They just work around it.

    13. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    14. RS

      And maybe it's three times a week, not seven days a week.

    15. RC

      Yeah.

    16. RS

      Maybe one parent if it's, if it's two people, maybe one parent takes care of the child on three days a week. Like, so I hear the resistance, but I also, out of love and respect, must say, if you repeat your excuses long enough, you're actually gonna hypnotize yourself to think they are true. And we don't just do it with The 5AM Club. We say, "Well, I hear you that this is a great time to launch a business, but here's why I can't." And they actually believe they can't, but people are launching a business every day. And other people say, "Well, I hear you, Rangan, that I should fi- I, I, y- I can find true love or work on my wellness, but I'm too busy right now." And what are we so busy with? Often you look at some of these people making the excuses, and they're on their phones half the day. Let's go to the, the research. On an average day, the average human is using their phone 4.37 hours a day. That's three months a year playing f- l- looking at influencers and people dancing to hip hop songs with their families at the dinner table. That's three months a year.

    17. RC

      Yeah.

    18. RS

      Did you know that 75% of human beings check their phone within the first 10 minutes of waking up? Not meditating, not visualizing, not praying, not doing journal prompts, they're on their phone. So-

    19. RC

      And what's the negative of that? Someone saying, "Okay, Robin-

    20. RS

      Sure. Great question

    21. RC

      ... what, what's the, what's the downside of that? Why can't I?" Well, not why can't I, because obviously everyone's entitled to live their life how they wish to live it.

    22. RS

      Absolutely.

    23. RC

      But every action has a consequence. So if someone says to you, "Robin, you've, you've, you've helped so many elite performers around the world live healthier and happier and more productive lives, what's the problem with me within 10 minutes of waking up looking at my phone?" Or, "What is the consequence of that?" What do you say to them?

    24. RS

      Attention residue. So there's been research that says we wake up with a full well of focus.

    25. RC

      Yeah.

    26. RS

      And every time we focus on the phone or focus on a TV show or whatever, we take some of the fresh attention we woke up with, and we leave it on the phone. So I think then we wonder why we have no focus and presence for our family-

    27. RC

      Mm

    28. RS

      ... for the special moments in our day, for our work, and we can't focus on getting the things done. Second thing I would say a problem checking your phone first thing in the morning is, what do, what do so many of us do? We check the news. We, we check our email. We check our notifications, and then we get pulled in, and it's an hour later.

    29. RC

      Yeah.

    30. RS

      And in a lot of cases, we lost an hour of our lives we'll never get back by watching things that were superficial and often destructive. Like, when I go in the gym in these hotels, no- pretty much no one's there. I turn off all the TVs.

  12. 1:13:06 – 1:20:45

    Walking Through the Eight Forms of Wealth: Growth and Wellness

    1. RC

      We've covered a lot of the eight forms of wealth in our conversation so far, but I thought we could directly go to some of the chapters in the book now, Robin.

    2. RS

      Sure.

    3. RC

      Um, I picked out a few of my favorite bits and, you know, I'm, I'm very happy to share some of your favorite bits, but the book is split up into eight parts, right? These eight forms of wealth. Could you just give us all eight and give us a, a brief overview of what they all mean, and then I'll sort of pick out some of my favorites?

    4. RS

      Of course. The first form of wealth is growth. Developing yourself is a currency money can't buy. Second form of wealth, wellness, your health. Someone once taught me health is the crown on the well person's head that only the ill person can see.

    5. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    6. RS

      If you have good health, it's human nature, we take it for granted until we lose it. Third form of wealth, family and friends. Happy home, happy life. Fourth form of wealth, our craft. A job is only a job if we see it as a job. All work contains meaning, the ability to serve, the ability to do amazing things. Fifth form of wealth, money. Money is important. It's a form of wealth. It's something, it's not everything. Sixth form of wealth, our community. These are our as- associations.

    7. RC

      Mm.

    8. RS

      We become like the people we are around. Seventh form of wealth, adventure. It's about not losing the sparkle in your eye you had as a kid-

    9. RC

      Mm

    10. RS

      ... when you were ready to take on the world. And the eighth form of wealth, service. Finding a way each day to make the lives of other people a little better.

    11. RC

      Yeah. Great summary. Okay, so let's start with, uh, the first form of wealth, growth, the daily self-improvement habits. This, this one I really like. Stop saying these two bad words.

    12. RS

      [laughs]

    13. RC

      That was ... That ... I wrote that down. Stop saying, "I'll try," basically. Why is that important?

    14. RS

      There's so many times when we get a great idea and we say, "Oh, yes, that's a great idea. I'll try." Read this book. Watch this film. Try this routine. Seize this opportunity. "Huh, good. I'll try." I'll try are two dirty words, I believe. I'll try means I'm not really interested. I'll try means I'm scared. I'll try means I won't hold myself accountable. I'll try means I have an escape route. Yoda said it well. He said, "There is do or not to do. There is no try." So I would encourage-

    15. RC

      Mm

    16. RS

      ... anyone, strip out I'll try. If you're not interested, don't do it, but if you're interested, get the job done.

    17. RC

      Yeah. The human who reads the most wins. It's all about reading, isn't it?

    18. RS

      Absolutely. BABEL, it's a great acronym. Book buying beyond lifetime expectancy.

    19. RC

      Book buying beyond lifetime-

    20. RS

      Lifetime-

    21. RC

      ... expectancy

    22. RS

      ... expectancy. BABEL.

    23. RC

      [laughs]

    24. RS

      Buy more books than you'll e- ... I don't know about you. There's, there's a ... I, I don't know if I can mention the name of the bookstore. I probably can here in London.

    25. RC

      Yeah, sure.

    26. RS

      But I, I love Hatchards, so when I land from Heathrow, for example, I will check into the hotel, take a quick shower, and beeline over to Hatchards, or Hatchards, as they say here, and I just love getting lost in the books. And I walk out with armfuls of books. And Plato said it well. He said, "A home with books is a home with soul." So, let's put, uh, put down our phones for a while and read. Read something that will enrich you, inspire you, show you new possibilities, because reading is having a conversation-

    27. RC

      Mm

    28. RS

      ... with the author.

    29. RC

      Yeah. Do you read every day?

    30. RS

      Every day. And I love audiobooks. One of the tools that I teach is walking university. So I'll go for ... Part of my afternoon routine after I finish my creative work, I'll go for a one-hour nature walk, and I almost always listen to a podcast or an audiobook. An audi- walking university. Audiobooks are so powerful.

  13. 1:20:45 – 1:25:06

    Red Flags, Serenity and Absolute Personal Responsibility

    1. RS

      I would say some of the cautionary tales in the book about relationships I wish I had learned earlier. Uh, one idea is a red flag is a red flag, and you could use many years of your life or lose many years of your life thinking it's green.

    2. RC

      What does that mean?

    3. RS

      Well, Maya Angelou said it far better than I ever could. She said, "When people show you who they are, believe them." And so how often do we meet someone at work or in a personal relationship and they d- they show us their red flags, they show us concerning behavior-

    4. RC

      Mm

    5. RS

      ... but we ignore it. And so the red flag was there. Because we ignored it, it cau- it created a lot of problems.

    6. RC

      Is that 'cause we're too busy and it's easier just to ignore it and keep going on with our lives?

    7. RS

      I think it's wishful thinking. Often we want people to be who we hope they are versus being realists.

    8. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    9. RS

      Happens a lot in intimate relationships.

    10. RC

      Yeah.

    11. RS

      We see the red flags. We want the relationship to work out. We ignore the concerns. We go deeper and deeper-

    12. RC

      Mm

    13. RS

      ... and deeper. The initial red flag behavior is part of a pattern. It just continues and it makes things worse, and then we get intertwined and enmeshed in the relationship, and often it can be hard to get out of it.

    14. RC

      Let's say someone gets the book, The Wealth Money Can't Buy, and starts to apply these principles in their own life over a period of weeks, months, and years. How does one know when they are wealthy?

    15. RS

      You'll know when you know. Sometimes people say... ask me, you know, "How do I know if it's true love?" You'll know when you know.

    16. RC

      Yeah.

    17. RS

      How do I know if this is the right career path for me? You'll know if- when you know.

    18. RC

      Yeah.

    19. RS

      So I would say, firstly, how do we know we're living the eight forms of wealth? You have serenity. I think serenity is the new luxury. You'll have serenity. You'll have a sense. Doesn't mean your life will be perfect. My life isn't perfect.

    20. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    21. RS

      Yet I've come a long way over 40 years of doing this personal development work. I'm, I'm-- I've come a lot farther than where I used to be.

    22. RC

      Yeah.

    23. RS

      So that's the payoff. Things that used to activate you or bother you, you can't believe it. "Wow, I just noticed that doesn't bother me anymore."

    24. RC

      It's the most incredible feeling, isn't it?

    25. RS

      Isn't it?

    26. RC

      When you think, "Wow, 10 years ago, that would've really bothered me for days, weeks, maybe longer," and now, like, you can just see it for being nothing. It's just neutral. I guess for me, one of the big realizations on this self-development journey is when you, not only you know, but you feel it as well that I have a choice in how I react to every single situation. For, for me, that's been huge, to know that you are in charge here. I think it speaks to what you were saying before. You mentioned CBE, complaints, blames, and excuses.

    27. RS

      Exactly.

    28. RC

      I think in the book you compare it to APR. Is that right?

    29. RS

      Absolutely. Victims are about... You can tell a victim because they give away their power to make changes in the things they don't like, and they're all about CBE, complaining, blaming, and excusing. "I didn't do that. I can't... Um, it's because of my parents. It's, it's become of my boss." It's blaming, CBE. Leadership is about APR, absolute personal responsibility. What am I doing to create this? What are my choices? Oh, I don't like this job. I can leave it. Oh, this relationship isn't inspiring me. It's like-

    30. RC

      Mm-hmm

  14. 1:25:06 – 1:34:21

    Service, Death and Where to Start

    1. RC

      In the final section, which is on service, the two that have come to mind there are, number one, do three acts of service. I think that's per day. And one of your finishing chats, it says, "Live fully so you can die empty." Could you speak to those two, please?

    2. RS

      Sure. Well, I think about Pau Gasol. He was the center of the LA Lakers. He came to one of my live events, and we spent a weekend at the event, and then I drove him to the airport to catch his flight back to Los Angeles. And Rangan, when he was walking through the airport, people were coming to him. Little kids wanted pictures. Adults wanted signatures. People wanted to greet him and say, "Oh, you're our hero." And as he walked through the airport, he'd stopped for every single person who came to him. And when we got to his gate, I said, "Pau, you stopped for everyone and you were fully present. What's your approach?" And he said, "Robin..." Said something I've never forgotten. He said, "Robin, it takes so little to make someone happy." And that has been a core rule. Like, uh, uh, if I'm staying at a hotel on this book tour and I go to a coffee shop, how little does it take to buy two extra pain au chocolats and drop them off to the people working at the front door? It takes so little to make someone happy. This might sound weird, but I take the... And I'm not saying I'm perfect, I'm no guru, but it's a practice. I take the towels from the shower and I put them in the bathtub. I make my bed, and I make sure the room is clean for the housekeeper coming in, because this is another human being who do-- and a nice tip on the bed. This is an act of respect for another human being. And so it's, it takes so little to even, like I mentioned the gentleman on the street, to say, "Hey, I love your song."

    3. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    4. RS

      But we can give gifts each day, and the great thing is when you give these gifts, you give a gift to the person, but you give a gift to yourself.

    5. RC

      Mm-hmm. I've heard you describe what you do in hotel rooms before, uh, and I absolutely love it. I remember hearing it and sharing it with my wife, this idea that... I, I think in the conversation I heard you talk about it last, you said, when you leave a hotel room for the day or you're checking out or whatever, you make sure you leave it relatively tidy because the person coming in to clean it is someone else's father or someone else's mother. And that really, really spoke to me, and it made me think of all kinds of things. In particular, the way you do the small things is how you kind of do everything. You know, it's so easy. Some people will say, "Robin, well, yeah, but I paid for this hotel room and there's housekeeping coming in. You know, why does it matter how I leave that room?" But I think it's really lovely the way you articulated that.

    6. RS

      Well, I would say it's easy to say no, no one will see it, but your greatest self sees everything that you do. So you make the bed, you leave the sink clean. You know, first of all, you're respecting the hotel that someone owns. I know this sounds strange, but this is someone's property, and by respecting it and by respecting the person who's gonna clean the room, you're not only respecting them, you're actually doing training. I think this is a key point, I hope. You're training yourself for self-respect. The more you respect others, the more you'll respect yourself. The more self-respect you build-

    7. RC

      Mm-hmm

    8. RS

      ... the more you'll respect your family, your health, what you eat, the quality of your work, your words, the way you live your life.

    9. RC

      Yeah. I love it, honestly. One of the most powerful things I've heard in a while.

    10. RS

      Great.

    11. RC

      Um, what about that chat to live fully so you can die empty? What's that about?

    12. RS

      So even the longest life is a, a very short ride, and people don't like talking about death, so I don't wanna, you know, [chuckles] I don't want you to lose millions of followers. But I think death is not negative. I think death is a great tool of inspiration. And human beings as species, we're just great postponers. We, we are massive postponers. Spend more time with family when I finish this work project. Get fit when things are easier. Read the classics when I retire. Visit Positano or Bogota or Vietnam when things are ideal. The Chinese say the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second-best time is now. And so by connecting to the shortness of life and realizing I could die walking out of the studio, just accident, pandemic, war, loss, illness, tragedy is... it's just, it happens every day. But we have a cognitive bias, do we not? It's not gonna happen to us. So realizing that is part of life and we could go tomorrow, but also realizing even a long human life, a long, rich, beautiful, creative, productive, soulful life, but even that is a very short ride, and before we know it, we're all gonna be dust, probably in a urn on a mantle above a fireplace next to football trophies. And no one's gonna really think about us except for our family and our friends. And once you connect with the shortness of life, then I think you start to live to the point, and you start to strip away accessories, and you put down... I'm, I'm not against phone. I love technology. I think it's a great servant, a terrible god. But you, you stop being busy being busy and you start saying, "Okay, what are my personal Mount Everests? What are my key priorities? Oh, it's my family, it's my gr- it's the eight forms of wealth in the book."

    13. RC

      Yeah.

    14. RS

      "It's my, it's my personal growth, it's my wellness, it's my family, it's my craft, it's financial freedom, it's my social network."

    15. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    16. RS

      "It's s- injecting my days with adventure and using my life for service."

    17. RC

      Yeah. It's been a real pleasure chatting to you, Robin. You've been doing such inspiring work for years. I mean, I don't know if we can even count how many millions [laughs] of people you have communicated with and touched over the past two or three decades. It really is quite incredible. For someone who perhaps is new to your work, who has just come across it today, listening or watching this podcast right now and thinks, "Hey, you know what? I need to make some changes in my life. My life is a bit unbalanced. I've been overly prioritizing one of these forms of wealth at the expense of some of the others, but I don't know where to start," what would you say to them?

    18. RS

      I would say the best place to start is just to start. Don't complicate it. How do you start the next bestselling book? You write a page. How do you start a marathon? The first walk. How do you start a, a life transformation process? You ask yourself, "What's the best thing I heard Rangan and Robin say? Oh, that resonated with me. I'm gonna start applying it today." And continue with that one commitment in the sun, in the rain, when you're scared, when you're strong. And what starts to happen is the more you stay with that commitment, the stronger you grow. Second thing I'd say is forgive yourself. Your past served you and got you to right here, so don't beat yourself up if you're 45, 65, 85. Everything... I, I think everything is grist for the mill. I wouldn't be who I am but for everything I've gone through. You wouldn't be who you are.

    19. RC

      Yeah.

    20. RS

      It was all, it was all good. Don- let's not beat ourselves up for our past mistakes. They were essential to sculpt us and make us into who we are today.

    21. RC

      Yeah. I love that. Great advice, Robin. The new book, The Wealth Money Can't Buy: The 8 Hidden Habits to Live Your Richest Life. Thank you very much for coming on the show.

    22. RS

      Really an honor, and I wanna appreciate you for the millions of people you inspire, and for how sincere and well-prepared you are and how humble you are. Um, it's been one of the, the most enjoyable interviews I've done in a long time, so thank you.

    23. RC

      Oh, thanks. I appreciate that.

    24. RS

      Great.

    25. RC

      [Instrumental music] If that conversation resonated with you, here is another incredibly powerful one that I really think you're going to enjoy. Give it a click.

    26. RS

      If you actually went to the happiness gym several times a week, you will actually have a happier life, right? And the happiness gym is very straightforward. It's a set of skills, hmm, that you need to practice

Episode duration: 1:34:21

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