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Dr Rangan ChatterjeeDr Rangan Chatterjee

WORLD'S FASTEST Man Shares How To Achieve Your MOST AMBITIOUS GOALS In 2025 | Eliud Kipchoge

This week’s guest is Eliud Kipchoge - a Kenyan athlete who is widely regarded as the greatest marathon runner of all time - he’s the only athlete to have ever run a marathon in under two-hours, which he did back in 2019 in Vienna as part…

Eliud KipchogeguestDr. Rangan Chatterjeehost
Oct 19, 20221h 18mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 5:02

    Calm After a World Record: The Branch Philosophy

    1. EK

      You cannot sit and wait for success. I believe in pure and good preparation, in pure and clean planning. You should live by it, sleep by it, run by it, relax by it, walk by it. You need to do it.

    2. RC

      [on-hold music] As we're having this conversation, it's pretty much exactly seven days, almost to the minute, where you were running in Berlin and when you broke the marathon world record again. How has the last week been for you?

    3. EK

      Uh, last week actually was, uh, Sunday was great day. Uh, I broke a world record. But from Sunday afternoon it's been a little bit busy. I'm walking up and down, doing some, uh, sponsor stuff and making sure actually com- everybody's, uh, is happy before I fly back to, to Kenya.

    4. RC

      Yeah. Looking forwards to going home, I'm sure.

    5. EK

      Absolutely, yes.

    6. RC

      Yeah, yeah. Obviously, you've done many interviews since you broke the world record. We've watched many of them on, on television or on the internet. What's it like for you, though, when you're not in public? So l- last Sunday, for example, what's it like for you when you're in your hotel room at night and you go to sleep? What is it like in those private moments for you?

    7. EK

      Uh, when I am actually in the hotel room at alone, it's a, I think it's a crucial time for me to audit myself, uh, internalize what has happened in the day, and actually try to, to, to go back what has been happening for the last four months, and actually, uh, uh, appreciate, uh, uh, what we have been doing actually for four months, which has, uh, reaped, uh, uh, good fruits on, on that day.

    8. RC

      Yeah.

    9. EK

      So it's, um, internalizing and accepting and just, uh, making your mind really calm that it has happened, and if there is another, tomorrow is another day.

    10. RC

      Yeah. Many people struggle to keep their minds calm. Um, big things may happen in their life, at work or with their family, or pressure, and they really struggle to calm their mind. You seem to be someone who has a very zen approach to life, a very calm approach. How do you manage to calm your mind when you've achieved something so huge?

    11. EK

      Oh, I am a believer of some philosophies. Uh, I'll give an example. I'm a believer of, uh, a philosophy whereby if you are going up the tree, you are stepping on the f- uh, branches of a tree. And immediately when you actually, you grab a branch, you test the branch, if it's strong enough to hold your weight. And if strong enough to hold your weight, then you go up. Immediately you stepped on the branch, then you aim for the next branch. Then you, you have already actually, uh, uh, got this branch.

    12. RC

      Yeah.

    13. EK

      You forget the branch. You wait for the next one. Get, uh, grab the next one. Test it actually if it has, uh, uh, enough actually, en- en- enough, if the, the branch itself has enough muscles to hold your weight, and then you go up. Uh, what I'm trying to say is this. Uh, Berlin Marathon was a branch. I worked, uh, for that branch for four to five months. And last week, on Sunday, on the 25th, uh, I got the branch.

    14. RC

      Yeah.

    15. EK

      After getting the branch, actually, uh, what else? I've got the branch. I need to aim for the next one. So just forget it. Aim for the next one. That, that's how, that's how I believed in that philosophy. And the philosophy actually has, uh, helped me to, to know that, uh, in life, every day is a challenge.

    16. RC

      Yeah.

    17. EK

      Every day is a challenge. You know, you are in a, in a loop actually with, uh, with somebody in, uh, on 26th at 10:00 in the morning. And I told that person that, uh, you know, you see now the organizers, the organizer of the Berlin is thinking of next year.

    18. RC

      Yeah.

    19. EK

      So Berlin Marathon 2022 is already out.

    20. RC

      Yeah. It's really inspiring. Is that, is that an approach you've always had to life, even as a child? Or is it something you've learnt through your career?

    21. EK

      Uh, it's something I learned through my career.

    22. RC

      Right.

    23. EK

      I have grown enough in the career, uh, close to 20 years [laughs] in, in, in running, and, uh, I know a lot. I know what, uh, what can actually knocked you out and what can actually uplift you, what can make you actually to be a real person.

    24. RC

      Yeah. When you're about to embark on something like last Sunday, the Berlin Marathon,

  2. 5:02 – 12:11

    Preparation, Planning and Redefining Success

    1. RC

      do you know beforehand that I'm going to try and break a world record today? Is that already in your mind? Or I, I guess there must be things, you train for four or five months, but you can't control the weather, for example. You know, many of us who run at weekends, let's say, some days we're not feeling it. You know, our legs don't feel as though they've got the, the energy, or we don't have the mindset. So I'm really interested for you, when you have done so much training to build up for one race where the world is watching, do you have a strategy in your head that today I'm going for the world record?

    2. EK

      I will start by saying that, uh, I don't actually, uh, I'm not a believer of success for the first thing. I don't believe in success, but I believe in good preparation and planning, which can bring success. That means within actually the five months, if I don't work hard, I will not be successful But if I got well planned, well prepared, then I'm sure of success. What I'm trying to say is this, uh, for four months I am really training, hitting the targets for over 80% is that then I feel I'm really comfortable in my, my body, my legs are good. Then actually one day to go, then I, I start to audit what I've been doing. If what I've been doing actually went well, as I expected, then the next day I'm ready for the next day. Uh, anything might happen, if the rain comes in, if it's too hot, or if the, the weather is okay, then I will handle it, but I will accept the results. You know, uh, uh, th-they say actually, uh, uh, uh, if you don't accept the results, then if you want, if you want to enjoy the sport, you need to accept the outcome.

    3. RC

      Yeah.

    4. EK

      Be it any outcome, I will not regret.

    5. RC

      Acceptance seems to be a really key part of your approach to life. You mentioned, of course, already the, the Berlin Marathon's gone. That's the branch. You've got the branch now. You accept it and move on irrespective of what had happened. You also mentioned that you don't believe in success. That's really interesting to me. Does that mean... Is it you don't believe in success? Or certainly when I hear you say that and describe it, is it that the success is the four months of training? That's the success.

    6. EK

      Let, let me explain that, uh, when I say I don't believe in success, success is there, but you cannot sit and wait for success.

    7. RC

      Yeah.

    8. EK

      Success is waiting for you to actually say, "Hey, just grab me." But rule number one, you should be prepared. Rule number two, you should be well planned. Rule number three, you should be actually capable of grabbing the success. That's what success is saying.

    9. RC

      Yeah.

    10. EK

      Success is there, I don't deny. But I believe in preparation, in pure and good preparation, in pure and clean planning can lead to success.

    11. RC

      Yeah.

    12. EK

      I don't think that you can actually believe that, uh, I will be successful in a marathon.

    13. RC

      Yeah.

    14. EK

      And you don't follow actually, uh, uh, the program to the letter. You know, the moment you don't, you skip one, the body will actually, uh, uh, count on the very day.

    15. RC

      Yeah.

    16. EK

      Yes.

    17. RC

      It, it's so fascinating. What I'm hearing from you is that, yes, you happen to be a marathon runner, but you're saying that actually this approach kind of applies to all of us.

    18. EK

      Um, yes. Uh, you know, success is, you can define success in different definitions, 10 or 20 or anything you have. But at the core of everything, you know, I'll give you an example that you are in class and you, you, you have, you are last year actually exam in December, and you have three months to study. If you don't start hard, if you don't actually go into a group discussions to share what you know and somebody else can give you what he or she knows, I don't think you will actually be, get the first class honors. You know, success, you, you can be successful in running, but you can run 2:10. And you, it's, that success, that's success according to you.

    19. RC

      Yeah.

    20. EK

      You can be successful in life and you run 2:05. You can be successful in life and run 2:01. That's difference of success. You can be successful in education, and you have a pass.

    21. RC

      Yeah.

    22. EK

      You can call yourself you are successful, you have credit. You can call yourself, uh, you are successful, and you have distinction. So it, what's success really? I think success, uh, what I'm trying to say is the mastery of what you are doing. If you have mastered what you are doing, then that's, that's success. But you need to do it. You need to have the right systems for success to come in.

    23. RC

      Yeah.

    24. EK

      The real right systems. The moment you lack systems, the moment you are, you are, you lack the positive systems within here-

    25. RC

      Yeah

    26. EK

      ... you, you, you will really look for it, but you will not get it. So it, it's good that, uh, in life you need to weigh yourself and, and, and, and declare that, "Hey, I belong here." Uh-

    27. RC

      Yeah

    28. EK

      ... if you are a sportsman, you, you, you, you really need to actually, uh, stand and say, "No, I need to be successful."

    29. RC

      Yeah.

    30. EK

      "I belong here." It n- doesn't mean that, uh, people can see you are successful, you are not. People can really still doubt. Please, it's good to actually tell yourself, "I need to be successful."

  3. 12:11 – 17:31

    Inside the Berlin Race: Pressure, Pacing and a Child's Question

    1. RC

      Last Sunday, I was glued to the race. And actually, I want to share with you, there are three moments in my life where I have witnessed a great sporting occasion with my two children. And two of them actually involved you. One of them was when Tiger Woods won the Masters in 2015, but the other two were last weekend when you broke the world record and also when you went under two hours in, in 1:59. I was sitting with my two children around the computer watching. It was really special moments. Now, at halfway, when we saw the splits of your, your, of course, you all know, 59 something at, at halfway, I was feeling nervous, which is ridiculous because I'm not running, you're running, and you look really relaxed. But I'm thinking, "Oh man, is he gonna break two hours today? Has he gone off too fast?" How aware of the time are you in that moment? What was going through your head?

    2. EK

      Um, you know, what happened is that, uh, I was feeling well. Pace makers were actually on the, on the right, uh, shape. And we crossed the halfway, we crossed the 20K and realized, "Hey, 10 is 56 is so fast." Then I tried to calculate the, to give another to two minutes and 50 seconds. I saw it will be actually under, under 60. But all in all is that, uh, that was a big motivation for me that, uh, if I am closing actually under 60 with the half, then I will not miss a world record. So I was k- uh, keeping myself, uh, uh, morale that please let me push. If I run, uh, uh, two hours flat, well and good. If I miss it and run a world record, that's what I need. So it, it was, it was a plus on my side.

    3. RC

      It was a plus.

    4. EK

      It was a plus on my mind, yeah.

    5. RC

      Do you feel any pressure because of who you are, because of the amount of people who look up to you and watch you? You know, are you aware of that pressure from the outside, or is it just another race for you?

    6. EK

      Uh, it was a huge pressure. Actually, it's a pressure from all sides. You know, uh, uh, on Friday, actually, I just jumped in to, to, to pr- press conference for whom, and all the channels were asking me, uh, uh, "Are you going for world record?" And I, I told them, "No, who told you I'm going for world record? I'm coming here to run a good race. And, and, and if that race can be translated to, to be a course record or, or if you can call it a world record, I will, I will appreciate." That's what I t- I told them.

    7. RC

      Yeah.

    8. EK

      But there was a lot of pressure from the channels. Everybody was expecting-

    9. RC

      Yeah

    10. EK

      ... that you can run. Then I told them, "No, I come, coming for a good race."

    11. RC

      Yeah. It's that approach, isn't it, that you keep talking about. It's process over outcome. It's the journey over the destination. That's what I'm hearing as I hear you speak.

    12. EK

      Yes, yes. You know, it, you cannot actually say, you know, human being is not machine. You cannot, it's, uh, you, you, you cannot set yourself and for, in certain time and run that time, no. You, you never know what will happen.

    13. RC

      Yeah.

    14. EK

      Uh, on the way, marathon is life, and, and all, all challenges are on the way. But, uh, always put my mind that I need to run well. I need to run certain time, try to push myself according to what I've been doing in training, thinking, you know. Before you do something, you need to internalize first.

    15. RC

      Yeah.

    16. EK

      You need to internalize. You need to, to, to, to really put in your heart and in your mind. You need even to think and imagine closing a finishing line with a world record.

    17. RC

      Yeah.

    18. EK

      Then you will get it. You cannot wake up and just rush. The moment you get it, then you, you say thank you and, and you move on.

    19. RC

      Last Sunday after the race, I went to the kitchen with my kids. We were having a late breakfast because we, we missed breakfast to watch you break the world record. And my 12-year-old son had a question for me, which, if you don't mind, I was gonna put to you.

    20. EK

      Yes.

    21. RC

      He said, "Daddy, um, Eliud was celebrating just before he got through the line. If he hadn't celebrated, do you think he would have gone one or two seconds even quicker than what he did do?" So this is a child's question, and I watched the video again on YouTube this morning, and it certainly appeared that obviously you knew you were, you'd broken the world records. There was a smile. There was some sort of hand celebrations. And it did appear to me that your pace slightly slowed at the end. So the question from my son is, could you have gone one or two seconds faster had you not celebrated?

    22. EK

      It's a very good question. And, and, and, and, uh, uh, uh, I want to answer and to answer that, uh, uh, I already saw that, uh, I made the world record, so I didn't mind actually, uh, celebrating, provided I need something called a world record.

    23. RC

      Yeah.

    24. EK

      So I was sure of a world record and decided to, to celebrate and, and, and got it.

    25. RC

      Yeah.

    26. EK

      Yeah.

    27. RC

      Well, huge, huge congratulations.

    28. EK

      Thank you.

    29. RC

      You know,

  4. 17:31 – 22:37

    Inspiring Movement and Running as a Family Lifestyle

    1. RC

      I know you want to inspire people to run. I've heard you say that in many interviews and many conversations. And I, I've been thinking about inspiration recently. What is it about people like you that inspire so many of us around the world? Because, you know, I'm a doctor, okay? So I, I may dream about being an elite marathon runner, but I'm not an elite marathon runner. But I remember after that race, I felt inspired. Um, I went into the garden, and I did some sprints. I got my skipping rope out and did some skipping. There was something about watching you, a fellow member of the human race, achieve something so special that really inspired me within my life to do a bit more. Why do you think that is?

    2. EK

      Um, inspiration actually is that, uh, always say that, uh, life is about movement. Uh, and I want to inspire people to move. All the professions actually, be it you're engineer, a doctor, be it you're a teacher, be it you're a manager, all sorts of professions in this world, for them to survive, for them to live longer, it's the spirit of movement. What I'm trying to say is this, if you move, that's how to earn a good life. If you move, that's how to live longer. But the only movement which is available is the less expensive movement, which is running. If you run, then, you know, I'm trying to, to, to tell people that, uh, you can't run actually to be a record holder and, but I need you to run to actually to be fit and to live longer.

    3. RC

      Yeah.

    4. EK

      That's my inspiration. That's why I always say I want to push, uh, uh, running to be a family lifestyle. The moment all the families actually grab running and, and actually put in, into their family and call it l- a family lifestyle, that will be great. Whereby in the morning you can see the, the kids and the parents just putting on shoes and go-

    5. RC

      Yeah

    6. EK

      ... just to walk around, just to, just to move.

    7. RC

      Yeah.

    8. EK

      If it's about movement, just to move. The world will be fruitful again.

    9. RC

      Are you familiar with Parkrun? It's a big global movement. Um, it's, um, it started in the UK, and in many, many towns and villages around the UK and now in the world, there's a 5K every Saturday morning. And people of all abilities come, children, adults, they all get a time. But, you know, the fastest will be running in 15, 16 minutes. Uh, the slowest will maybe be an hour. But it's a big community spirit and people run together. And, you know, what you just said about running as a family, I'm pretty sure if Parkrun did not exist, I'm not sure my kids would be runners. Like, my son loves running. But I think he loves running because of Parkrun, so the way we start every weekend is me and my son, we go down to the local 5K, rain or shine, you know, windy, cold, hot, doesn't matter. We turn up and we do a 5K. And so for me, it's how we spend our family weekends together, which I think speaks to what you're talking about.

    10. EK

      Yes. That, that's exactly what, uh, what I'm, I'm saying. And if all of us actually, if, if, if the spirit what you are doing in UK can go to every country, uh, in this world, then actually we'll be far. Uh, the two years actually, the world will change. Yeah.

    11. RC

      Why did you start running?

    12. EK

      Um, I start running, um, my neighbor was running. I wanted to run like him, which is my coach now. And, uh, the aim was of running actually and training hard was, uh, just to feel our life will be up the skies by actually getting a ticket and, and, and fly. As, uh, but, uh, at long last, I traveled to Europe, run. I realized that, uh, oh, so sport can give me life. Sport actually can, can, can keep, uh, food to my table, to, to, to my siblings and my parent and, and, and the rest. So I start to, to focus in a professional way.

    13. RC

      And did you know from the start that, "Hey, I'm pretty quick here. I can beat people around me," or did that come later?

    14. EK

      Uh, uh, uh, no, it, that one came later. No, not really.

    15. RC

      Did it?

    16. EK

      I said, we, I just training and wanted to just for fun go to, to, to compete and, and actually, uh, uh, compete with other people.

    17. RC

      Yeah.

    18. EK

      Get a position and come back home.

  5. 22:37 – 26:48

    Humility, Ego and Calm Through Long Runs

    1. RC

      As I talk to you, Eliud, I think back to a conversation I had a few years ago on this show with Killian Jornet, the, um, you know, regarded by many as the greatest mountain runner of all time. You, of course, are regarded as the greatest, uh, marathon runner of all time. And what really strikes me from chatting to both of you is there's a real modesty, a real humility, and I'm really interested, why do you think that might be? And, uh, do you think there's something unique to running that kind of gives off that flavor in the people at the top of the sport?

    2. EK

      Um, I think it's about understanding life and understanding what you are doing. That, uh, always, uh, uh, uh, when you are at the top of something and you have an ego, that's a sign of actually failure. And at the end of it, actually, when you are at home and you realize that, uh, your ego is half, then, uh, it has, it doesn't feel like you are human. So the, it's the, it's the way you think that, uh, you treat actually the world is, uh, full of a human family and, and, and ego will go away. And I trust that the moment you, uh, you chase away ego, that's, uh, that's the best place to, to, to, to really get into, into course, the best place to think, the best place actually to, to think with other people and respect other people, the best pl- place actually to, to get your trainings in a good way.

    3. RC

      Yeah. Do you think there's something about running or, or running long distances that it kind of burns the ego out of you?

    4. EK

      I trust the long runs. When you are running for long, training for long, uh, uh, helps you to actually how- to know how to handle suffering. And if you know how to handle suffering and pain, that's, that's what long runs are, is helping, i- is helping me out or, or helping any other person. But all in all, I think, uh, uh, it's the only way to calm your mind. That, uh, "Hey, what do you want again?" And, uh-

    5. RC

      Yeah

    6. EK

      ... if something happens, then it has happened, and we need to move on. You know, uh, uh, I don't know. I can't explain because I don't understand more as far as ego is concerned, but, uh, uh, I believe actually at the end of the day, you know, before you go to bed, I think everybody actually is reflecting what has happened for the whole day.

    7. RC

      Yeah.

    8. EK

      Did you actually, uh, affect the world in a positive way or in a negative way for the whole day? Did you actually, uh, what did you do? Did you do anything negative or positive? That's what people actually should be asking themselves at the end of-

    9. RC

      Yeah

    10. EK

      ... the day before you go to bed.

    11. RC

      Yeah.

    12. EK

      And if you happen to actually have those thoughts, then actually you will realize that, uh, there is no need of actually having an ego.

    13. RC

      Yeah.

    14. EK

      Yeah. Th- this life is actually good when you are on the ground.

    15. RC

      You come across incredibly calm and zen in your manner, and you mentioned there that running and particularly long runs is a good way to calm the mind. So I guess for me, I'm thinking, were you always calm and zen and relaxed, or do you think it's the fact that you run so much that has made you calm and relaxed?

    16. EK

      Uh, I think that's in my personality, but, uh, run- running has helped me to, to be more calmer.

    17. RC

      Yeah. You mentioned reflection and how important it is maybe every evening to think, you know, what have you done in the day? Have you contributed to other people? You know, have you behaved in a way that, uh, in, in a manner that you wanted to behave in? And I know that you are a very keen journaler. You have a journal.

    18. EK

      Yes.

  6. 26:48 – 34:02

    Journaling and a Phone-Free Morning Routine

    1. RC

      And in one interview you've mentioned that your pen and your journal are two of the most important things that you possess. I wonder if you could speak to journaling. Why is it so important to you, and why do you still do it by hand in an age where we have computers and technology?

    2. EK

      Oh, I have a lot of journals. I have a journal with, for training every day. I have a journal for, for the shoes that I'm using every day. Uh, I have a journal that, uh, when I'm reading a book, I just highlight the best points I need to put down on a, on a notebook. I have a notebook whereby it's, uh, what to do in that day that, uh, I write all of them down and, and actually focus on the day-to-day, the, uh, my daily programs that I need to do to rush up and down when I'm at home. So, uh, believing actually on the hand or writing actually is that, uh, I believe that they say, "Write it, and you'll remember."

    3. RC

      Yeah.

    4. EK

      So the moment, the moment you write it, you'll remember. So that's why I'm still carrying around a journal. The journal, I have 90 now at home. If you happen to come to Kenya and visit me, I will show you what I, I was doing 2003, 2004.

    5. RC

      Wow. I, I, I would love to. [laughs]

    6. EK

      [laughs]

    7. RC

      Um, so that's every year-

    8. EK

      Yes

    9. RC

      ... you write down all of your running.

    10. EK

      Absolutely.

    11. RC

      Every single run.

    12. EK

      Every single run.

    13. RC

      And what are you documenting? Like, what are you writing down? Like, what, distance, pace?

    14. EK

      I, I'm writing the, the time I cover and the distance. Everything I'm doing, if it's ice bath, massage, everything I'm, I'm putting there.

    15. RC

      So it helps you remember. Does it help you also, when you're reviewing it, kind of see patterns? Oh, when I do this, this happens, or when I do this, I'm running quickly. That sort of thing?

    16. EK

      Um, the cool thing is that, uh, you know, if you are writing everything every day, it helps you not to miss the training. Because the moment you miss training for two days, you will just put, when you refer to your journal, you'll see, oh, I missed the training last week three times. I missed the training this week two times with no reason at all.

    17. RC

      Hmm.

    18. EK

      So it's good actually that, uh, I really need my, my book to get f- to get filled. That's why I don't miss training.

    19. RC

      Do you do it when you wake up? Do you do it after the run? Do you do it in the evening, or does it just depend day to day?

    20. EK

      Um, when I wake up, I don't handle anything. I just wake up, get my clothes, put on. When I wake up, I don't see, I don't ha- I don't handle my w- my, my phone. I'm waking up, prepare for a run. After the run, I go back for breakfast. Coming back to relax, then I start now to, or if I, I, my training was 20 kilometers, then I write actually the time I cover and the kilometers, and I close the journal and start to check the phone if there is some texts to, to refer or emails or anything else. But all in all, I treat myself first before other things.

    21. RC

      So you wake up, you get yourself ready for a run. You're not looking at your phone. You do your run. It's only after that important thing is done for you that you then get into what the rest of the world wants you to do.

    22. EK

      Absolutely. Yeah. I always tell people that even in the camp that, uh, uh, during breakfast actually- Don't bring your phone. Even we set a law in our camp whereby mobile phones are not allowed, uh, in, in the kitchen or the, the dining where we are eating to make people actually, uh, eat well and concentrate. Reason number one is that it's to avoid these people actually to cut their phones immediately after training. So you need to cut the one hour of taking shower, taking breakfast, taking care of yourself before to respond to, to the, to the whole world.

    23. RC

      Yeah.

    24. EK

      Most of them actually were, were saying that, "Hey, you know, emergency might be in." Then I ask them, "We're out of, uh, out of our rooms for one hour 30 minutes. If any emergency happens within one hour 30 minutes, we lose all of it." They say, you know, "Then there is no need for actually, uh, rushing to the phone."

    25. RC

      Yeah.

    26. EK

      Yeah. And what has happened after has happened. You cannot actually, uh, bring it back.

    27. RC

      Yeah, I love that. So what kind of time do you normally wake up? And then, you know, I'm, I'm interested is in, in that sort of routine. You wake up, is that with an alarm? Is it without an alarm? And then how long does it take you to warm up before you're out for your run usually?

    28. EK

      Oh, my alarm is actually on at 5:00, 5:45. That's, uh, quarter to 6:00. Wake up, do the necessary change and put on. Uh, 10 past 6:00, then I'm on the road with the whole team, and we start training.

    29. RC

      Do you always run in groups-

    30. EK

      Yes

  7. 34:02 – 39:32

    Running in Groups and Finding Motivation

    1. RC

      In the West, certainly here in the UK, and I think also in America, the relationship a lot of people have with running, or I guess movement in general, is to help them, you know, deal with the stresses of their day. These days in the UK, people will talk about running for their mental wellbeing. Uh, my taxi driver, a chap called Daniel in the northwest of England, he told me a few months ago that he runs 10K every day, uh, seven days a week, and he says if he doesn't run those 10K, he doesn't feel good. He doesn't feel he's settled. A lot of us also do this by ourselves, right? You know, culture in the West has become quite isolated. People often don't live near their families, near their friends. They're living, maybe they've moved to a different city for work, and they often work by themselves, and then they go running by themselves, and they struggle to motivate themselves to keep going. But what, what I'm hearing from you is that you run in groups, and of course, that makes sense. Like, if you're not gonna show up, you're, you're letting people down. They're gonna say, "Hey, Eliud, where are you? You know, why, why are you not running today? What's going on?" And, and it makes me, it really fits into what I think, where I think we're really going wrong in the West. We're becoming more isolated. We're doing more and more things by ourself, and I think that's why that group Parkrun every Saturday is proving so successful for so many people across the UK and around the world is because people are running in groups, which helps motivate you. Ha- have you noticed this? When you go around the world, you're speaking to people, have you noticed that culturally, the relationship to running we may have, let's say, in the UK or in America, is different from the relationship people have with running in, let's say, Kenya?

    2. EK

      Uh, absolutely yes. Uh, in America and Europe, most people actually are running by, by themselves. But, uh, my encouragement is that, uh, that's why I always, uh, say I want to make running a, a family, uh, event, is that, uh, if you want to enjoy more running is you run, get a group. Get two, three, four, five people actually. Assemble yoursel- yourself actually in a point. If it's every day, then that's well and good Uh, and just run. You'll enjoy. You'll just talk as you are going, ideas are coming in, and you put on paper, then a bit. And then, you know, it's good. You know, sometimes when you are alone, you think you are running and you are not running. Your mind is in another place. You know, running is not about legs. Running is, is about actually the, the, the mind. Your legs might be on the park, but your mind might be actually on the plane. So you need, you need a group where, so that it can actually, uh, protect your thoughts from actually exploding, going a- a- away and, and, and bring it back to, to where you are running. So group running actually is crucial to keep you on the course, uh, make you enjoy running and, and, and, and you cannot actually get tired. You know, the moment you are alone, you start to think a lot, then you cannot finish ten kilometers if you are actually aiming it.

    3. RC

      Yeah.

    4. EK

      Yeah.

    5. RC

      Many of us struggle with motivation. Do you ever wake up in the morning and you know you're due to have a run? And do you ever think like many of us, "Ugh, I can't be bothered today. Ah, it's not, uh, I'm not feeling it today. I want to stay in bed." You know, help us understand, are you, are you as human as the rest of us or do you wake up and go, "Yeah, it's time to run"?

    6. EK

      Oh, actually there are some days whereby I don't feel like running.

    7. RC

      Really?

    8. EK

      Absolutely, yes. But, uh, just lie in the bed and I ask myself, "If I don't run, what will happen?" And you know, if you don't run in the morning, you will lie to yourself that at 10 o'clock I will go for a run. At 10 o'clock you'll say, "No. 4:00 I'll go for a run." And then the day actually will be off. So I'll ask myself, what will happen? Then I wake up, get my shoes, get my clothes, go the road. In 10 minutes time jogging, then my body will come up again-

    9. RC

      Yeah

    10. EK

      ... in training and I c- I'll, I'll be in li- I will come to life again.

    11. RC

      Yeah. No, I love that. Do you tend to run every day usually?

    12. EK

      Yes, I run every day.

    13. RC

      Every day?

    14. EK

      Yeah.

    15. RC

      Even, like, I don't know, like, I know you're in recovery now-

    16. EK

      Yes

    17. RC

      ... 'cause you, obviously you, you ran last weekend. Are you still running every day?

    18. EK

      Uh, no. Some, I'll start next week to-

    19. RC

      You'll start next week

    20. EK

      ... run again, yes.

    21. RC

      And for many of us when we do a marathon, the next day can be quite painful in terms of going up and down stairs. We can really, really feel it.

    22. EK

      Yes.

    23. RC

      Is it the same for you or can you walk effortlessly the day after?

    24. EK

      No, it's the same for me.

    25. RC

      Same for you?

    26. EK

      Going the s- stairs actually is, uh, you know, uh, uh, wear and tear has been there, has been actually, uh, uh, occur in your muscles-

    27. RC

      Yeah

    28. EK

      ... and you know, uh, all that impact from the road is, is hard.

    29. RC

      Yeah. So you have the marathon hobble like-

    30. EK

      Yes

  8. 39:32 – 44:17

    Running Your Own Race and Looking Relaxed at Speed

    1. RC

      hearing what you're saying about groups and running together, I, I'm drawn back to last Sunday's race again where, I don't know, obviously you had the, you had the pacers. Uh, there was a fellow competitor who was with you for quite a long time. I don't know if you were aware of that, if you're thinking, "Wow, people are still with me." I, I don't know what goes in your head at that time. I'm very interested. But then there comes a moment where you no longer have your pacers, you no longer have competitors to help push you. What goes on in your mind there? Because then it's down to self-motivation at that point. You don't have, many of us know that actually we can run faster if there's people around us, if we're trying to beat someone or we're trying to keep up with someone. But in many of the races I've seen you do, you're out in front by yourself. Is it hard to keep that motivation going for you when it's just you?

    2. EK

      Oh, let me start it, uh, when people are, are around me.

    3. RC

      Yeah.

    4. EK

      Uh, firstly I always say, "I will run my own race." If anybody actually wants to run my race, then he's welcome. I will not actually deny. You are welcome to run my race. So if you want to run your own, that's okay, but I'll run my race. That's why I don't see, I don't actually, uh, uh, turn myself and look back-

    5. RC

      Yeah

    6. EK

      ... who is there, because I am running my own race. Uh, if actually, uh, uh, the distance actually is going up and the speed is going up and, uh, and the muscle starts to, to, to, to actually, uh, sore and no- nobody's there, then, uh, I'm motivating myself. I will, I'm still pushing. I'll push by my own. You know, because I trust in my trainings. I trust in what I've been doing. So I know what I've been doing will just take me to the finishing line. So, uh, so I, I, I'm not actually scared of, uh, of maybe losing some minutes because I'm alone or, or, or, or here and there. No.

    7. RC

      Yeah. You say you're pushing. One of the most striking things to me, Eliud, when I watch you run is how relaxed you look. There's an elegance. You look majestic. Your posture is fabulous. In fact, I find it very hard to tell the difference between you at mile one and at mile 26. To me, maybe I, I've got an untrained eye, but it looks remarkably similar. Whereas if you go to a local race here, uh, towards the end you will see all kinds of postures and people just somehow trying to struggle to get through. So- You're saying that you're struggling and you're pushing. Of course, why would you not in order to break a world record? Yet, at the same time, you look super relaxed. Can you help us understand that?

    8. EK

      Oh, looking super relaxed is, uh, that's a good for, is good for me. And, uh, on the other hand is that, uh, I have actually trained well and trained my body actually to run in a super relaxed way, but in a high pace.

    9. RC

      Mm.

    10. EK

      So when I am in the race, I'm just maintaining it. But, you know, to maintain that speed is what I, I, is what actually is, is really hard to maintain, but it's good to maintain in a good posture without actually struggling so much.

    11. RC

      Yeah. I've spoken to many people on this show before about nasal breathing, about some of the benefits that we have when we breathe through our nose instead of through our mouth. And I can't tell when I watch you, but you, you, you look so relaxed. Certainly for the first half of that marathon last Sunday when I was watching you, I thought, "Is Eliud just breathing through his nose, or is his mouth open?"

    12. EK

      [laughs]

    13. RC

      Um, do you, do you think about this? Is this something you're, you're aware of?

    14. EK

      Yes, but I breathe through my mouth.

    15. RC

      You breathe through your mouth?

    16. EK

      Yes.

    17. RC

      From the start to the finish?

    18. EK

      The more the speed, the more the mouth is. You cannot breathe in your nose with the-

    19. RC

      At the speed you're going.

    20. EK

      No.

    21. RC

      No. I, I can believe that. [laughs]

    22. EK

      [laughs]

    23. RC

      I can believe that, but thank you for, thank you for clarifying that. Um, yeah.

  9. 44:17 – 49:26

    Pain Is Part of Success

    1. RC

      And what about your smile, what I call the Kipchoge smile? We hear that you smile when you're in pain. Is that true? Or, you know, may- maybe explain to us. You, you know, you seem, for someone who is running such long distances at such, at, frankly, a pace that we can't fathom, you know. I know you were at the, the running show yesterday, so I'm guessing you saw people trying to run your pace.

    2. EK

      Yes.

    3. RC

      And I'm guessing nobody look-- Well, g- g- first of all, what is it like for you when you watch amateur runners trying to run at your pace?

    4. EK

      Uh, I feel tense.

    5. RC

      Oh, you feel tense?

    6. EK

      Yes.

    7. RC

      Why?

    8. EK

      No, you know, it's, uh, even seeing yourself running on TV, you just feel, oh.

    9. RC

      [laughs]

    10. EK

      But, uh-

    11. RC

      Do you worry they're gonna injure themselves on the treadmill and fall off?

    12. EK

      Yeah, I saw last year somebody who fall down, fall, but I think he was not injured, so.

    13. RC

      Yeah.

    14. EK

      Yeah, but, uh, actually, the smile is to enjoy. You know, if you feel that pain, please keep that pain. If you feel the pain, then feel it. The more you f- you actually move with the pain, that's where success is.

    15. RC

      Yeah.

    16. EK

      Everybody, if you are 10 and you feel the real pain, then everybody is, is feeling the pain, and few of them who actually know how to handle pain will be successful and will move on to another level.

    17. RC

      So how do we learn how to handle pain?

    18. EK

      Oh, you should understand that, uh, pain is part of success. Just convert pain into a positive thing.

    19. RC

      Yeah.

    20. EK

      That, uh, uh, uh, success is not coming on a silver platter. You need to work for, for it. The moment you are working for it, that's how you undergo pain.

    21. RC

      Yeah.

    22. EK

      Yeah. Pain in your body and even pain in your mind thinking, you know, uh, but, uh, at the end of it, you will enjoy. Immediately you cross the line, immediately the pain is no longer there.

    23. RC

      Yeah. So you think pain is a good thing?

    24. EK

      Absolutely, yes. It's a good thing. Pain is a good thing. It, it actually, uh, guides you to, to know that you need to work hard. It's, uh, guiding you to s- to respect that success that you have earned.

    25. RC

      Yeah.

    26. EK

      Yes. If, if all people, all successful people actually did not undergo pain, then you can see other things in this world. But because pain is guiding them, that if I play, uh, I am successful, but if I don't do the right thing, actually, I, I will not earn success again.

    27. RC

      Yeah. It, it's, it's fascinating hearing that, Eliud, because I'm-- I keep thinking about what you said earlier, that planning, it's about preparation. That's almost where the success lies, not in the actual outcome of the race. You know, you didn't quite say that, but that's certainly what I'm-

    28. EK

      That's, that's what I meant.

    29. RC

      That's, yeah.

    30. EK

      Yes.

  10. 49:26 – 54:24

    Pre-Race Sleep, Sleep Tracking, Crowds and Negativity

    1. RC

      Many people feel nervous the day before, let's say, a marathon or a big work presentation or something big in their lives. They feel a little bit nervous and anxious, and they don't sleep very well. Uh, so it's pretty well known. Many amateur marathon runners, I did, I did my very first marathon last year at the London Marathon, uh, which didn't go particularly well, but I did finish. [laughs] I did complete it, and I'm planning to do it in April. Um, do you ever find yourself, the night before a race, lying in bed thinking, "Man, I need to sleep. I can't sleep. I've got a big race tomorrow." Has that ever happened, or have you trained yourself to sleep well the night before a big race?

    2. EK

      Uh, not really. I'm like other people. I s-sleep for two hours, wake up, sleep, or it's no longer, another two hours. So it's-

    3. RC

      Really?

    4. EK

      It's, it's common. It's a good thing, and, and it's good for, it shows that you are prepared to, to, to handle hard work tomorrow.

    5. RC

      Yeah.

    6. EK

      Yeah.

    7. RC

      I know you wear an Oura Ring to track your sleep.

    8. EK

      Yes.

    9. RC

      Um, and I'm really interested in technology and how it can help us with our health. I think sometimes we can overuse it potentially. Um, you obviously are an elite athlete, so knowing, you know, how you're running, how you're sleeping, these things are really, really important for you to do your job. Is it demoralizing for you the night before a race? I don't know what happened the night before Berlin, for example. If you have a bad night's sleep and you look at your Oura Ring in the morning and you see a really bad readiness score or does, has that ever happened, and does that demoralize you, or have you learnt not to take too much notice?

    10. EK

      Uh, the next day I don't actually, uh, click to the app, and-

    11. RC

      You won't look?

    12. EK

      I won't look.

    13. RC

      Oh, so if you've had a bad night, you won't look?

    14. EK

      I, I don't look.

    15. RC

      Yeah.

    16. EK

      Yes. But I know, uh, I've been running many marathons, and it's, uh, it's hectic for one day to go to, to really sleep.

    17. RC

      Yeah.

    18. EK

      Yeah.

    19. RC

      I'm always fascinated by talking to people like you who are at the top of their game, and, um, like I think of other people at the top of their sports, people who are regarded as the greatest. And, um, you know, in golf, for example, Tiger Woods is regarded as, by many people as the greatest or certainly one of the greatest golfers of all time. Now, I've heard Tiger Woods say in interviews that when he is playing his best, he's so focused on what he's doing with the ball and where the hole is that he doesn't hear or see the crowds. I've heard you say earlier that actually you do hear the crowds. You enjoy hearing what they have to say. So I'm interested, you know, as I share that sort of insight from Tiger, do you ever get like that where you're not hearing them and you're really focused, or does it just depend on what stage of a race you're in?

    20. EK

      Uh, starting from beginning, I clearly hear what the, what the crowd are saying on the way. People are, people are clearly singing and I'm not looking up at, at them, but I'm focusing on the road. But I hear that, uh, people are clearly cheering on the way, and, and, and I have no problem. That's, uh, that's good. Cheering is good.

    21. RC

      Yeah.

    22. EK

      Yeah. But I-

    23. RC

      So you hear it and you use-

    24. EK

      But I, but I, I block my mind actually from thinking outside and bring the mind actually to, to the, uh, every mile splits, every kilometer splits, and, and, and, and, and focus on the, on the projected time.

    25. RC

      Yeah. You're obviously very well known around the world. Um, many people with profiles like yours will face, you know, maybe ninety-five percent positive comments online, but maybe five percent negative comments. When those negative comments come, if they do, how do you deal with them?

    26. EK

      Oh, negative comments are there in all the sport. You know, the law of nature cannot allow us to, to think together. Uh, there is, uh, optimists and pessimists in this world, and we need to respect all of them because we are all human beings. So any negative thought, actually respect and, and, and, and that's life, you know. Uh, uh, you know, uh, other things actually is that, uh, you don't, you, you, you need to just forget. Just see it and forget. You know? You don't put in your mind. But a lot is there. There is a lot of, uh, positive remarks, negative remarks. What can you do?

    27. RC

      Yeah. Yeah.

    28. EK

      You cannot prevent them from talking, but you can prevent them from coming inside your life because they are negative.

  11. 54:24 – 59:29

    Retirement, Longevity and Love of Running

    1. RC

      Some top athletes have struggled when they have retired. You know, Michael Phelps, another great, you know, all-time swimming great, it's been well documented that he has struggled with, uh, mental health problems, uh, in the past. And I watched the documentary he made about Olympians and how many of them have really struggled. You know, that four years is all about that one race. And then the day after, there's, "Oh, what am I getting up for? I've got nothing to, um, nothing to train for, nothing to practice for." And I'm really interested, you appear to be, to me at least, in the prime of your career. I hope we- we're seeing you running for many, many years to come. Have you thought about retirement? Have you thought about how you're gonna feel when you no longer do this as your job?

    2. EK

      Oh, yes. So in front of my mind, I know I will retire, but I will retire when the time comes in. Uh, I will retire running actively, but, uh, I will still go around, uh, all the big city marathons, running for charity to, to actually raise funds for my, for my foundation to, to build libraries and, and, and, and actually, uh, conserve the environment. Uh, I, I, I think I will be more busy when I retire and, and, and, and I want to, I'm looking forward for it.

    3. RC

      So you don't need the running, the world records to make you feel good about yourself?

    4. EK

      N- not at all. I, I could have retired in 2019 when I broke a two hour barrier. So it's, uh, I will retire when my muscles are no longer consuming the trainings, when my mind is no longer actually actively consuming, uh, uh, uh, the training. So, uh, I want to retire in a good way. I don't want to retire because I have made an history. Then why do I retire if I made history? If I inspire a billion people by running under two hours, and then the next day a kid, Athenian kid asks, "Is that person who inspire us still running?" "No, he retired." Then what, what, what is the meaning of running?

    5. RC

      Yeah.

    6. EK

      Yeah. The meaning of running is that you inspire many people, you still run and show them, uh, running is life. Uh, making history and, and actually removing the, the barriers in the minds of people is a great thing, but we need to keep on.

    7. RC

      Yeah, yeah. So you think you'll still be running in your 70s, your 80s, your 90s?

    8. EK

      Absolutely, yes. You know, uh, uh, seven years ago, I met, uh, an old man in, in Athens, in Greece. Uh, I was there for, for some, uh, uh, awards, and the old man actually was, uh, 91, 91 years. Uh, he was a very good old man, 91 years, still walking. And then we were talking, I, he told me, "No, now you are, you are running marathon." And I told him, "Yes." Uh, he told, he told me that, uh, he has been running in his life, all his life, but he will stop running at 100. I trust now he's 98. I've never followed him. I've not got his contacts, but I think he has now two more days, two more years to, to run-

    9. RC

      Yeah

    10. EK

      ... because he's becoming old because of the knees and everything, but still running. So if you, if you want to, I ask him, uh, "Then what's the secret actually? You, you have a good, you, you are actually clean with a tie, and you don't look like you are 91." He tell me the secret is running.

    11. RC

      Wow. Yeah. Yeah, I guess if you were to stop running after, let's say, another Olympic gold or, uh, or another, another world record, then I guess in some ways it's not consistent with your philosophy, which is those are just outcomes. They're things that, you know, happen as a side effect of you just concentrating on getting up each day, doing the work, having a plan, you know, preparing, executing on your plan. And I guess whether you're a competitive athlete or whether you're just running for fun to raise money, you still seem to have that real love of running. I mean, do you ever get up, Eliud, and go, "Forget the log, forget what my coach has said. I just wanna run today because I'm free, and I just wanna experience what it feels like"?

    12. EK

      Absolutely, yes. So our coach actually are leaving us free on, uh, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Friday that, uh, it's not that it's, in the morning we are running as a group in a freeway.

    13. RC

      Yeah.

    14. EK

      Just run and enjoy running for 20 kilometers. Easy, just the way you feel.

    15. RC

      Yeah, yeah.

  12. 59:29 – 1:04:03

    Avoiding Injury and Listening to Your Body

    1. RC

      How have you managed to stay clear of injuries in a way that, you know, it seems to be quite rare? And, and the context of me asking this is in the UK, and I think in America, there are various statistics going around that, you know, 60 to 80% maybe of runners have to stop or give up at some point because of injury. Whereas you appear to be someone who, touch wood, manages to stay relatively clear. Is there anything you can share about that?

    2. EK

      Uh, first is that, uh, injuries are a part of life in sport.

    3. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    4. EK

      Injuries are part of actually, uh, uh, a challenge in sport, but, uh, what I am doing is that, uh, when I'm resuming training after a marathon, then I take care of my body with a massage and making sure my muscles are good. I will start the first amount of actually resuming training by going to gymnasium for the whole month, three, three days a week.

    5. RC

      Okay.

    6. EK

      Uh, running on steps, lifting some weights, aerobics for the whole month. That whole month actually is really intensive, mixing with some runs, and it can ac- it can actually, it, it makes my, my muscles actually to If there is something going on, it can, uh, uh, actually keep a sign immediately-

    7. RC

      Mm.

    8. EK

      -and I can handle it. And after that one month, uh, I go to another step of actually endurance speed and endurance training to build my muscles. So two months actually of my training is building the muscles and, and, and actually, uh, like chasing the injury. And now you'll never... If you do that, you'll never get an injury. Or if you get an injury, it will just a small injury. It will, by the way-

    9. RC

      Yeah

    10. EK

      ... because you can't prevent everything, but you have done a lot which, uh, uh, uh, it's, uh, 80% of your-- It's, you have a 80% cha- chance that you cannot get an injury.

    11. RC

      Would, would you say you're good at, if, if an injury is starting to come up or you feel a niggle, are you quite good at saying, "Hey, look, I'm not gonna do that long run today. I just need to look after this"?

    12. EK

      Absolutely. When I get, uh, an, uh, immediately something which is wrong, I, I, uh, I, I trace it immediately.

    13. RC

      Yeah.

    14. EK

      Yeah. It's good to trace as early as possible.

    15. RC

      Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause I think a lot of people, a lot of my patients that I speak to, their, their work is so pressured. They're so looking forward to their Saturday run that even if they've, they're injured, they run through, and they often then get, get injured, and then they're off for two months. They can't do anything. And I feel like I see this a lot with training plans, Eliud. I don't know your view on this. Of course, you are an elite athlete whose job revolves around running. Many people with busy jobs and, um, I'm not saying you don't have a busy job. I mean, let's say a non-elite athlete, let's say a busy parent trying to do their job, look after their children. They're trying to squeeze a run in at the weekends, or they're trying to train for a marathon, and they see a published, uh, training plan online. Okay, three runs a week. This one's 12 miles. This one's 14. My feeling as a, as a doctor is that sometimes we don't trust ourselves enough. We, we see the plan, and we think, "Even though I'm tired or my knee's hurting, I must stick to that plan because that's the published plan." Whereas I kinda feel we should be using plans as guidance, but we also have to trust ourselves and go, "It's not the right thing for me today." What's kinda your perspective on that?

    16. EK

      Uh, my perspective actually is that, uh, you should have a feeling of yourself. Feel for yourself what, uh, what, uh, is, is it, um, am I, uh, good enough to do this, uh, established thing? You should have that personal belief that listen to your body.

    17. RC

      Yeah.

    18. EK

      If you listen to your body, actually, that's, uh, it's really crucial. So it's good to listen to your body. Do what is necessary. Uh, it can save you energy, can save you actually of, uh, not being injured and many things.

    19. RC

      Yeah.

    20. EK

      It's, it's really good to listen to your body.

  13. 1:04:03 – 1:12:13

    Self-Discipline, Values and "No Human Is Limited"

    1. RC

      Self-discipline is something that I've heard you speak about before. You said it's very, very important. When you say self-discipline, what exactly do you mean by that?

    2. EK

      Oh, that's crucial thing, and that's, uh, value number one. You know, uh, in our camp, I set up, uh, I printed a huge billboard. Uh, when you enter our gate, the second gate, you get a huge billboard with 60 values.

    3. RC

      60?

    4. EK

      Six zero.

    5. RC

      Six zero values. Wow.

    6. EK

      Yes. I encourage everybody to get 15 values.

    7. RC

      15.

    8. EK

      After getting 15, they should narrow them to three. Those three values, you should live by it, sleep by it, walk by those values, run by those values, relax by those values. Uh, go around with your friends guided by those values. Then we come to self-discipline, which is inside those values. What I mean by self-discipline is it's that sacrificial of personal passions and pleasures, that you sacrifice those passions and pleasures to allow you to, to, uh, or to work on your career. How can you handle self-discipline? The rule number one is to get vitamin N.

    9. RC

      Vitamin N?

    10. EK

      Yes. That's the rule number one. You need to inject yourself with vitamin N.

    11. RC

      N is for?

    12. EK

      N is to learn to say no. That's a vitamin.

    13. RC

      Yeah.

    14. EK

      That's how to get self-discipline. Secondly is setting your priorities right. Thirdly is avoid complaining. Those are the three factors which can lead you to self-discipline. I want to tell you that, uh, doing all these things is not one night event. It's a process. It's like going to a gymnasium. If you go to gymnasium for nine hours, I go for three months. Who is going to get the muscles, good muscles? It's me, because I'm going for three months. If you go for nine hours, you, it's just nothing. You destroy your body. So it's a process. It's process. It's a real process-

    15. RC

      Yeah

    16. EK

      ... that you can actually, in the three-month time, you have absorbed the self-discipline That's why I always tell people, it's not a one-night event. To cut vitamin and learning to say no in everything is not easy.

    17. RC

      No.

    18. EK

      Setting your priorities right is not easy. Avoid complaining in anything is not easy. But if you combine the three-

    19. RC

      Yeah

    20. EK

      ... things, you can have self-discipline. And without those three, then there is no self-discipline. That's what I mean by actually trying to tell people, self-discipline-

    21. RC

      Yeah

    22. EK

      ... is the key to any professional sportsperson or sportswoman.

    23. RC

      And I've heard you say before that the discipline, it doesn't restrict us. It actually gives us more freedom.

    24. EK

      Absolutely. Yes. I always say the disciplined ones are free in life. The indisciplined ones are not free. They're in prison. Because you are indisciplined, and when- wherever you go, you know that I, I am not supposed to do this, and you are doing. That means you are in prison. In this world, you need to be, we need to be free, walk free, live our honest life, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and that's the way to go.

    25. RC

      Yeah. You're commonly known for the phrase, "No human is limited." When you say no human is limited, what do you mean by that?

    26. EK

      Uh, no human is limited actually cannot a- is not applying purely to sportsmen and sportswomen. It's not for running alone. It's for all the professions in this world. I want that engineer actually to remove that barrier in the mi- in his mind, that he or she can think and innovate something which can help the world.

    27. RC

      Mm-hmm.

    28. EK

      I want that teacher actually to have the best mind to inject knowledge to the kids.

    29. RC

      Yeah.

    30. EK

      I want that psychologist actually to have the best knowledge to actually talk to people and remove what they have as a problem.

  14. 1:12:13 – 1:18:42

    Music, the Sub-Two Marathon and Final Words on Hope

    1. RC

      many people these days when they run, they, they try and distract themselves from the pain with music or podcasts. Um, do you have any view on the benefit of running with music and/or podcasts?

    2. EK

      Uh, during the easy runs, it's good to listen to music and listen to podcasts.

    3. RC

      During the easy ones.

    4. EK

      Yes.

    5. RC

      Yeah.

    6. EK

      But, uh, with the intensive runs, I don't think you will listen because you're just, you are pushing your body, and, uh, music and podcasts cannot, cannot work. But, uh, with the easy runs, when you are relaxing, when you are at the gym, when you are at the park, how, uh, uh, up the park, podcasts and music is really good.

    7. RC

      Fantastic.

    8. EK

      Yeah. Because you, y- you can actually listen to a podcast for an hour, and you forget that, uh, you was running for an hour.

    9. RC

      Time was gone.

    10. EK

      "Hey, so it's one hour."

    11. RC

      Yeah. The breaking two hours was of course done in specific conditions. You obviously have shown yourself that you, you can run a marathon in under two hours, which is still one of the most incredible things I have seen. Do you think within your career it's gonna be possible to do that in a competitive marathon?

    12. EK

      Absolutely. It's, it's possible. Uh, I have demonstrated actually in a organized marathon, which I personally, I, uh, I cannot say it was in a specific condition because, you know, a, a, a few people actually have dare to try, not even dare to try, dare to think to run under two hours. Few. I think I'm the only one who has even have dared to, to think and dare to try, yeah. None has dare to try, leave alone even, uh, le- leave alone, no, uh, they have never even dare to think, leave alone to try. Just the thinking to run in their minds that, uh, "Can I run two hours?" Never. So it's still a hard job for people actually to, to accept. But all in all, is that, uh, uh, I know, uh, running under two hours in a normal marathon like in London, Berlin, Chicago is, is, is, is absolutely, uh, uh, possible.

    13. RC

      And where's that gonna come from? Where's that improvement gonna come from? Is it training, nutrition, mindset, shoes? I mean, where do you think? Because to, to, to me, like my s- my kids, we were, we were talking about this last week. He goes, "Oh, Daddy, just, just another minute to go, and if you can do that..." Uh, but, but of course at that p- at that level, 10 seconds is huge. A minute is like a- another marathon. Like, where do you feel that improvement is going to come from?

    14. EK

      Um, the improvements are gonna involve many things. Nutrition will be there. Technology will be there. Teamwork. Sh- uh, teammates, you are right. Systems are go, like teammates, uh, uh, those who are walking-

    15. RC

      Yeah

    16. EK

      ... people walking aro- around you, uh, will take their key positions and, and, and all will be well. So I, I think if, uh, if, uh, if actually the right systems will be there on an athlete, after those right systems, if that athlete actually has the right mind, and he, he has really think, and he wants to try, then he will run under two hours.

    17. RC

      Yeah.

    18. EK

      First and foremost is that, uh, the systems might be there in a good way.

    19. RC

      Yeah.

    20. EK

      But is this person actually, uh, is he agree in his heart and mind to try to run under two hours? That's a big question-

    21. RC

      Mm-hmm

    22. EK

      ... which we should put on, and we should actually, uh, uh, uh, make it actually before we tell somebody to come-

    23. RC

      Yeah

    24. EK

      ... and try. We need to, and he, he himself actually need to come in a broad daylight and say, "Hey, I have thought enough-

    25. RC

      Yeah

    26. EK

      ... and I want to try."

    27. RC

      Try.

    28. EK

      Then the systems comes in.

    29. RC

      Yeah.

    30. EK

      And we set the date.

Episode duration: 1:18:42

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