World’s Fastest Runner: "Why You Feel Empty Inside!" - Let Go Of Perfection & Find Happiness

1. 0:00 – 2:33

   Running a “beautiful race”: values over finishing position

   1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee0:00

      Many people regard you as the greatest marathon runner of all time. And often I've noticed before you compete in a race, journalists ask you, "What is your goal?" Very often your answer is, "My goal is to run a beautiful race." We're sitting here two days after you completed the London Marathon when you finished sixth. Was that a beautiful race?

   2. EKEliud Kipchoge0:27

      Absolutely, yes. A beautiful race is a race whereby you start and you finish. Starting is a different thing, and finishing actually is a different thing. Going through the whole 26 miles and just crossing the finishing line is two different things. Your mind, your body is changing immediately you cross the finishing line. And when you cross, you get that accomplishment that I have accomplished a mission of a beautiful race. And that's why I always say it was a beautiful race, regardless of any number, re-regardless of any position. But it was beautiful because I was running with the values. I was running with the spirit of sport and spirit of humanity, and I managed to go through all 42 kilometers with the same spirit and finish with the same spirit, with the same spirit, and that's beautiful.

   3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:37

      When you say you ran with the values of humanity, what does that mean?

   4. EKEliud Kipchoge1:45

      Oh, by saying the values of humanity, I mean the values which actually respects the humanity. I mean, I respect the sport. I value the sport. I run with respect. I run with integrity. And above all, I regard sport as a movement, you know. And I am really a big supporter of this movement. So inside it, there is respect, there is integrity, there is consistency, there is love. And those are the values which actually every human being, all the seven billion people, should live with and will have a fruitful one.

2. 2:33 – 6:17

   Goals vs joy: the seed-in-soil lesson on process

   1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee2:33

      You know, a lot of people, Eliud, when they run, they're thinking about their finish time. Okay? So let's say, you know, people run a 5K.

   2. EKEliud Kipchoge2:44

      Yes.

   3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee2:45

      Right? Oh, I wanna beat 30 minutes, or I want to beat 25 minutes. Do you think it's good for people to have goals in terms of the time in which they run, or can sometimes those goals become limiting, and we can forget about the joy and actual experience of running?

   4. EKEliud Kipchoge3:05

      Uh, they say actually trimming is good, but don't trim too much. Getting a vision and setting a goal is really good, but don't set too much goals. First, there is a real system for that goal that you need to plan well and prepare well. And the minute you respect the two values of preparation and planning, then the fighting of that goal, the fighting of that vision comes in, because if you put actually in front of your mind the goal itself, and what goes on behind the scene is not actually, is not the goal itself. You need to work more hard. There is a lot of things going on behind the scene before that goal. I'll give you an example that when you are planting a seed, when you put a seed on the s- into the soil, you wait for seven days to germinate. But what's happening between the first day and the seventh day is really wonderful. You know, the seed starts to grow downwards, not upwards. But going down, it's inside the soil, it's really warm.

   5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee4:24

      Mm-hmm.

   6. EKEliud Kipchoge4:25

      It's hard to penetrate. And trying to penetrate that soil, resisting that warmth, that oddness inside the soil, and then coming out after seven days. That then you get the, the real plant is coming out, testing the sun and going very fast. That's, that's now the goal. But what has been going on behind the scene or inside the soil is a lot of things. A lot of, uh, heartbreaks, a lot of, uh, tiredness, a lot of hunger. Anything so which can actually make you to go back has been happening. I always give that, uh, respect, that philosophy, and bring to running, that you can set a goal and a vision that I want to run 13 minutes in 5K, but what are the recipes for, for, for actually running 13 minutes?

   7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee5:31

      Yeah.

   8. EKEliud Kipchoge5:31

      There is a lot of recipes for running 13 minutes.

   9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee5:34

      Yeah.

   10. EKEliud Kipchoge5:35

       You need to prepare well, you need to plan, you need to go all through the trainings, you need to create consistency in training, you need to be disciplined, you need to eat well. You need to actually throw away the normal food and eat with food which can build you. You need to eat that food which is not really sweet, but which bring us a lot, a lot of energy. And that's the hardest moment ever.So it's all-- It's good to, to dream. It's good to set a goal. It's go- it's good to actually have a vision.

   11. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee6:08

       Mm.

   12. EKEliud Kipchoge6:08

       But to draw a map, to draw a roadmap for running thirteen minutes is crucial.

   13. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee6:16

       Yeah.

   14. EKEliud Kipchoge6:16

       Yes.

3. 6:17 – 9:47

   The 119 days matter: redefining success and resilience

   1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee6:17

      It's interesting because I understand for an elite athlete like you, a marathon training cycle is what? Three, four months.

   2. EKEliud Kipchoge6:23

      Yes.

   3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee6:24

      Something like that. Okay. So let's think about that through the lens of goals. Okay, so the reason I ask the question is because I find-- Well, I've experienced this myself in the past, but I also find with many people that goals, they sound like a good thing, but sometimes they can become a trap, right? And so let's say in a four-month training cycle, let's say there's many days in those four months where you're training, you're preparing, right?

   4. EKEliud Kipchoge6:55

      Yes.

   5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee6:55

      You're doing what you need to do.

   6. EKEliud Kipchoge6:56

      Yes.

   7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee6:57

      So I don't know, let's say thirty days a month, right? So let's say it's a hundred and twenty days, uh, of preparation and planning for the one race.

   8. EKEliud Kipchoge7:06

      Yes.

   9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee7:07

      You could have one hundred and nineteen perfect days, right? Where you train, where you rest, where you follow the plan, you exercise discipline. But on the hundred and twentieth day, the marathon day, things outside your control could happen, right?

   10. EKEliud Kipchoge7:27

       Absolutely.

   11. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee7:27

       And so some people, if all the focus is on the goal, they forget about the hundred and nineteen days that were brilliant. That hundred and twentieth day where they don't get the time or they don't win the marathon, they then regard themselves as failing. But that's the problem, isn't it? Because that's not failure.

   12. EKEliud Kipchoge7:45

       That's a, that's a huge problem. That's not failure. In fact, that person is a real, real success.

   13. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee7:51

       Yeah.

   14. EKEliud Kipchoge7:52

       That's a huge success.

   15. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee7:53

       But they don't see it, some people. They look at the time and go, "I didn't make the time. I failed," without seeing all the great things that they did. That's when I say, for some people, I think goals become limiting.

   16. EKEliud Kipchoge8:06

       Yes.

   17. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee8:06

       That's what I mean by it.

   18. EKEliud Kipchoge8:08

       I, I get you. Yeah. Goals are going to become limited, but, you know, we should appreciate what we have been doing all the way. We should appreciate when you wake up and do the right thing, that's what, that's what actually we should be appreciating. You know, hundred and nineteen days, like, uh, is a real accomplishment.

   19. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee8:28

       Yeah.

   20. EKEliud Kipchoge8:28

       What can we do with this hundred and nineteen days? What have you learned? There's a lot of learnings inside.

   21. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee8:34

       Yeah.

   22. EKEliud Kipchoge8:34

       And, you know, if we are hoping enough, if you have, uh, uh, shock absorbers enough to handle any, any setback which can arise, then we can confirm those days, get real accomplishment, and move on. Those days can make us to actually skyrocket very fast again, because you know, you know what's going on.

   23. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee8:55

       Yeah.

   24. EKEliud Kipchoge8:56

       You, you, you, you now have experience. Take, take time. Sleep. Wake up tomorrow in the morning, set another goal-

   25. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee9:06

       Yeah

   26. EKEliud Kipchoge9:06

       ... and move on.

   27. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee9:08

       In some ways, the goal is there to help you focus and do the preparation. But actually, in many ways, whether you achieve the goal or not, I guess in some ways it doesn't matter.

   28. EKEliud Kipchoge9:22

       It doesn't matter. Goal is what makes you to be disciplined.

   29. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee9:25

       Yeah.

   30. EKEliud Kipchoge9:27

       To bring you to the course. That's the reason why people are setting their goals, is to bring you around the course. When you want to go astray, it brings you back. That's the, that's the real reason for setting a goal. But all in all, is that what's happening within the course is what life is.

4. 9:47 – 15:39

   Aging, legacy, and nurturing the next generation

   1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee9:47

      You know, when you first came on my podcast two and a half years ago, I spoke to you one week exactly after you broke the world record in Berlin. Since then, a lot has changed in the running world. Records have changed. Um, people coming and competing against you has changed. And you went through this period of time for years where, you know, everyone knew or we, we, we thought, "Eliud's gonna win. Eliud's gonna win." You kept winning, okay? And that constant, um, string of victories has now changed.

   2. EKEliud Kipchoge10:23

      Yes.

   3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee10:23

      Okay? And one of the interviews you gave before the London Marathon, you were talking about the new generation, and you were saying, "Hey, the new generation are better." Okay? When you said the new generation are better, what did you mean by that?

   4. EKEliud Kipchoge10:40

      Um, I am now forty, approaching forty-one, and I consider myself not the next generation, because I believe anybody of after thirty-five years is no longer the next generation. And our work now, and my work now, because I am no longer next, the next generation, is to nurture the next generation, is to build the next generation, is to give holistic education and holistic training to the next generation. What I mean by holistic training is training which makes them better than the way I am. I believe that, uh, anybody younger than me is really better because they are better than me because they are getting the holistic education from myself, which makes them better than where I am now. That's what I mean, because, you know, when they talk of love, they say beautiful ones are not, are not yet born. I believe that actually the fastest ones are not yet born.

   5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee11:42

      Yeah.

   6. EKEliud Kipchoge11:42

      But those who are younger than me are faster than me.

   7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee11:46

      Yeah.

   8. EKEliud Kipchoge11:47

      Yes.

   9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee11:49

      It's so interesting. In some ways, it feels as though you have that sort of fatherly relationship with them, or you, you, you wanna give that sort of fatherly guidance to them. W- is that fair to say?

   10. EKEliud Kipchoge12:02

       Uh, it-- That's fair to say. I want to give everybody a fatherly love, you know?My professional now is 22 years old.

   11. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee12:11

       Yeah.

   12. EKEliud Kipchoge12:12

       Most of the athletes now are between 18 and 22. My profession is, is really older than their age.

   13. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee12:23

       Yeah.

   14. EKEliud Kipchoge12:25

       And my child now is 18 years, first year at the university. So all these people are like my kids.

   15. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee12:30

       Yeah.

   16. EKEliud Kipchoge12:31

       I need to provide a fatherly love to them, the fatherly guidance, the fatherly nurture, and I need to be more friendly to them and provide the right things which make them actually think, make them to reach very well with, with, with the, with the world of sport.

   17. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee12:47

       Where do you think that comes from within you? Because if I look across elite sport beyond running, I'm not sure I've seen this kind of approach that much. I'm not, I'm not sure I've seen people who were the very best. You know, I, I'm not sure how common it is for people to then want to spread that love. There-- I don't know if it comes to upbringing, mindset, culture, what our parents instilled into us, but you don't see it everywhere. And so I'm interested for you, where do you think that kind of giving, collective community mindset comes from?

   18. EKEliud Kipchoge13:27

       Um, I always take time myself to think and ask myself, "What, what will the world benefit from me?" Ask myself a lot of questions. That I am 40 now. That I am 40. But for the next 12,000 days, where will Eliud be? What are the contribution to the sport? What are the contribution to this planet? Those are 20 years to come. So I see that, uh, because I'm a sportsman, I want to use running as a messenger to carry the message of, of, to the whole world for the next 20 years. And the only way is actually to nurture the next generation.

   19. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee14:20

       Mm-hmm.

   20. EKEliud Kipchoge14:21

       To nurture the young people. To make the young people more better than me. To make the young people to think more than what I think.

   21. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee14:30

       Yeah.

   22. EKEliud Kipchoge14:30

       To make this world a lovely world, a unity, a united world, and you know, to make every people to respect each other in a healthy way.

   23. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee14:40

       Yeah.

   24. EKEliud Kipchoge14:40

       That's what I've been thinking because, you know, sometimes you ask yourself, uh, this world will have seven billion people. Can we say the next 3,650 days, that's 10 years, where will the world of sport be?

   25. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee14:56

       Mm-hmm.

   26. EKEliud Kipchoge14:56

       Those are the questions we need to ask ourselves every time we wake up. And if all of us can ask ourselves those questions, we'll have a platform whereby we'll make the sport beautiful. We'll make a sport benefit each other, and the next generation will actually enjoy sport.

   27. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee15:19

       Yeah.

   28. EKEliud Kipchoge15:19

       And, and, and, and you know, the, the, there will be big reasons to, to be in sport.

   29. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee15:23

       Yeah.

   30. EKEliud Kipchoge15:24

       Not only to get money and run. Not only to get money and just walk. There is life beyond that sport.
5. 15:39 – 21:19

   The “Kipchoge effect”: inspiring belief and breaking barriers

   1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee15:39

      It's clear from watching you run, hearing you speak, that you feel that your contribution to running is much more than just winning races and setting records, okay?

   2. EKEliud Kipchoge15:55

      Yes.

   3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee15:56

      I know you wanna inspire people, and I think you inspire people in so many different ways. When I sat down with you face to face two and a half years ago, you very kindly spent some time with my children afterwards, okay? And it had a really big impact on them to the point where just six weeks ago, my son did a project for his school, okay? It was an important project.

   4. EKEliud Kipchoge16:19

      Yeah.

   5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee16:20

      And do you know what the title was?

   6. EKEliud Kipchoge16:21

      No.

   7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee16:22

      The title of his project was, Will Someone Run an Official Marathon in Under Two Hours, a Race Marathon, Within the Next 10 Years? So he had to do a whole project on this idea, and he went through various points, and w-looked at what the scientists say, and running shoe technology, and all these things, but he finished off talking about mindsets. And he brought up the example of, uh, Roger Bannister. When Roger broke the four-minute mile, everyone said he couldn't do it. It wasn't possible.

   8. EKEliud Kipchoge16:56

      Yes.

   9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee16:56

      And after doing it, I think eight people in the next two years broke it. You know, 'cause we, we look back to that with the four-minute mile, and some people call that the Bannister effect, okay? By Roger Bannister breaking the four-minute mile, it showed the next generation what is possible. And we were saying, well, maybe in 10 years people will say, "Well, that's the Kipchoge effect." By Eliud Kipchoge breaking two hours in those conditions, it then sets the scene for the younger generation to do it in a race. How does that feel for you to know that your impact isn't just for people running, it's even affecting children and how they do their school projects?

   10. EKEliud Kipchoge17:41

       That's huge news for me, and you know, that's what makes me to wake up every morning and run. Those are the news which actually acts as an ignition key in my life.

   11. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee17:52

       Yeah.

   12. EKEliud Kipchoge17:53

       That when I hear those news, it makes me to chime at 5:30 in the morning, get my clothes and shoes, and go to the road and run. That's my motivation, and that's my inspiration.

   13. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee18:07

       Yeah.One of your Kenyan, uh, compatriots, Kelvin Kiptum, unfortunately, uh, died, um, a couple of years ago. Kelvin broke your world record-

   14. EKEliud Kipchoge18:21

       Yes

   15. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee18:21

       ... in Chicago.

   16. EKEliud Kipchoge18:23

       Yes.

   17. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee18:25

       I'm really interested in your relationship to winning and your relationship to world records. When Kelvin broke your world record, do you remember where you were at that time? Do you remember, you know, were you watching the race? When did you first hear about it? And how did you feel when you found out that somebody had broken your world record?

   18. EKEliud Kipchoge18:48

       Um, when Kelvin was actually breaking the world record in Chicago, I was at home watching on TV. And I was happy man to see somebody younger than me breaking the world record, because I broke the world record twice. And you know, inside my heart, I believe that records are there to be broken, and that's the beauty of sport. When the sport actually will reach, will reach a space whereby records are not touched, then that, that's no longer a sport. So it's really a sport. You break today, I break tomorrow. You win today, I win tomorrow. That's sport. That's sport. It's like Premier League, you know. Uh, the la- the, the, the least three are going for relegation. And you know, teams are fighting to win EPL. Teams are fighting not to go to relegation. That's sport, and that's the sweetness of sport. So when I saw actually, uh, K- Kelvin running and actually breaking the world record, I was the happiest man, you know. Because after all, my name will be there twice as a r- record breaker. And people m- And I was not the first one. A lot of people have been breaking the world records from 1980 all through to, to, to 2022. Then the breaking of the records should really go on, go on, go on. That's why I always believe that anybody younger is better than me.

   19. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee20:23

       Yeah.

   20. EKEliud Kipchoge20:23

       Yes.

   21. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee20:24

       The circle of life.

   22. EKEliud Kipchoge20:25

       Yes.

   23. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee20:26

       Yeah.

   24. EKEliud Kipchoge20:27

       Yeah.

   25. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee20:27

       In my son's projects, he has to write a conclusion, you know, 'cause the question was, will a human break the two-hour barrier in an official race within the next 10 years? And in his conclusion, he made the case for why he thinks they will.

   26. EKEliud Kipchoge20:44

       Yeah.

   27. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee20:44

       What do you think?

   28. EKEliud Kipchoge20:47

       Uh, I, I, I think the conclusion that, uh, he made was a human being can, can break the two-hour barrier in the next 10 years.

   29. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee20:55

       You think so?

   30. EKEliud Kipchoge20:56

       I think so.
6. 21:19 – 25:44

   “No human is limited”: origin story and real-life application

   1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee21:19

      Yeah. It's interesting, when I talk to you, when I spoke to you the very first time in 2022, this, this deep belief you have that no human is limited-

   2. EKEliud Kipchoge21:37

      Absolutely.

   3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee21:37

      Right? That we shouldn't believe the stories that people tell us, like people say a human can't run a marathon in under two hours. What did scientists say? It's gonna be 2075, right?

   4. EKEliud Kipchoge21:48

      Yes. Yes, yes.

   5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee21:49

      Yeah. So people were telling you that. It's not gonna happen till 2075.

   6. EKEliud Kipchoge21:53

      Absolutely.

   7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee21:53

      But you did it, right? And it's interesting, yesterday I spoke to, um, a fellow athlete of yours, Sifan Hassan, and I was chatting to her about her mentality, and that in the 2024 Olympics she decided to run the 5K, the 10K, and the marathon. And she was also sharing this idea that people around her were saying, "Oh, you shouldn't do this," you know, "It can't be done," or, you know, "You've not done enough training to do the 2023 marathon." But there seems to be, in Sifan and yourself and many of the top athletes, there seems to be this inner belief, this inner belief that it doesn't matter what people say, doesn't matter what stories, what culture says, what society says, I believe I can do it, and so I'm gonna try, right?

   8. EKEliud Kipchoge22:46

      Yes.

   9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee22:46

      Now, sometimes you'll try to do something, and it won't happen, but you still have that belief. Where did that idea come from within you that, that no human is limited? Do you think that applies to everyone on the planet or just to a few?

   10. EKEliud Kipchoge23:00

       I think by now it, uh, it apply to nearly everybody. But, uh, the idea came in the year 2017 when the Nike came in with, uh, trying to get people to break two hour barrier. And you know, it was really hard. A lot of stories were going on, uh, in all social media channels. You know, a lot of stories on Twitter, a lot of stories on our current newspapers that, uh, this, this will be by chokers. But I ask myself, "Are the human beings limited?" Then I answer myself, "No. No human is limited." In this world, there is no human being who is limited. The, if the moment you are limited, then it only applies in your thinking. And to be unlimited, it also always stays in your head also. Because, you know, and that's where at the time No Human is Limited came in. I just jump into the ship in 2017. But although I missed it to, to break the two-hour barrier, but it was a success, and I missed it by 25 seconds, which shows I'm not limited at all.

   11. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee24:10

       Okay.

   12. EKEliud Kipchoge24:10

       Yeah. And then the world now start to open. The world in 2017 was like in a cocoon.Everybody was closed, but I used the word no human is limited to break it, you know, and, and leave people to be free, to know that they are not limited at all.

   13. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee24:27

       Yeah.

   14. EKEliud Kipchoge24:27

       Yes.

   15. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee24:29

       If there's someone who's struggling in their life at the moment, let's say, I don't know, a single mother-

   16. EKEliud Kipchoge24:34

       Yes

   17. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee24:35

       ... who feels that life is tough, okay? What can they take from your message that no human is limited?

   18. EKEliud Kipchoge24:46

       Oh, all the single mothers are beautiful, and they have the strongest children ever. I am actually from a single mother. I went to school. I used to know that I could sleep without food, but I was taken care of by a single mother. So the message to all single mothers about no human is limited is to know that the moment they break that cocoon and come up that, "I will move on with my children. I will take care of my children. I will put the food on the table. I will take them to school. I will mentor them. I will nurture them. I will live with them. I will show them the way," that's the game changer.

   19. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee25:36

       Yeah.

   20. EKEliud Kipchoge25:36

       That's a belief. Believe and put on and move ahead.

7. 25:44 – 28:06

   Marathon as life: bumps, potholes, and breaking the rock

   1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee25:44

      It feels like running a marathon is a metaphor for life. We have to endure, we have to go through ups, we have to go through downs, but somehow we have to get through. It seems like a lot of the lessons that you have learnt yourself through running marathons can also be applied beyond running. For you, what is the similarity between running a marathon and getting through life, and then what are some of the key lessons you've learnt through running marathons that we can all apply in our own lives?

   2. EKEliud Kipchoge26:24

      Oh, I always say marathon is life, and life is marathon. In life, there is a lot of challenges. We can't laugh every day because we, we get challenges, but we move on because the every day we need to press on, press on, press on, press on. The moment we are no longer pressing on, that's the end of life. In marathon, there is, it's a huge and long journey. There is bumps on the way. There is potholes on the way. Bumps actually are like small challenges comes in within your profession, within your personal life. The pothole actually is that challenge which you believe that you are down and you'll never wake up. It's the same thing that you've used actually happen to drive a car, hit a pothole, and you get a puncture. Just go on the road, change your tire, and move on. That's not the end of life. You cannot leave the car and just move.

   3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee27:32

      Yeah.

   4. EKEliud Kipchoge27:32

      So it's like life. When you, when you hit actually the hardest rock ever, that's not the end of life. Go back, see how you can hit it more. Hit it more again, that rock, because the last stroke will break it, but it, that last stroke is not really important. The rest we have been using to hit that rock is countable, and anything you are doing actually cannot go into a loss.

8. 28:06 – 35:55

   Paris Olympics DNF: pain, self-talk, and choosing to continue

   1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee28:06

      Until the 2024 Olympic marathon, you had never not completed a marathon race that you started. For many people who watched that race, it was quite a shock for us to see you stop and pull out of that race. Okay. So through the lens of what you've just said, okay, life is full of challenges and potholes and unexpected things come up all the time. I'm guessing for you, not completing the 2024 marathon in Paris, that wasn't part of the plan, was it?

   2. EKEliud Kipchoge28:42

      Uh, it was not part of the plan, but, uh, it, uh, I think I hit a pothole actually on the way. When we talk and, you know, bring our minds as far as life is concerned, in sport, that's a big challenge. But what did I learn from this challenge? Was it the end of the world? Was it the end of my career? Was it the end of sport? All of them, no. We go back. We sit. We learn from it. I collect myself, put myself on the table and, you know, write what I've been doing. You actually absorb the news and move on. What happened, actually, I learned that this world is full of challenges. Life can try to break you, but if you are strong enough, life cannot break you. You bounce back.

   3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee29:40

      Yeah.

   4. EKEliud Kipchoge29:41

      You know, the important thing is that, uh, I fall down, but when did I wake up? How faster can you wake up? How f- how far can you wake up? What... It, it, the important thing is waking up, not getting the railing, because we forget it. What happened, we forget, but we wake up and move on.

   5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee30:03

      I've been wearing this WHOOP band for about a year now, and it's had a transformative effect on my health and wellbeing. I've gained so many insights, how different types of exercise and life stress affect my recovery, how different evening routines affect my sleep quality, and I would say that wearing this WHOOP band has helped me understand my body much better.WHOOP is the only wearable that turns your health and fitness data into personalized guidance. And I'm pleased to announce that the all-new WHOOP is now available, 7% smaller and with 14 plus days battery life. Now, I've been a doctor for over 20 years, and I honestly don't think that health wearables are for everyone. But for some people, like me, they can be absolutely game-changing. The all-new WHOOP now includes Heart Screener with on-demand ECG readings that you can share with your doctor, and Health Span, a new feature that shows you how your daily habits impact your pace of aging. So if you want to improve your performance, longevity, and overall health, get the all-new WHOOP at join.whoop.com/livemore or click on the link in the description box below. Now, I'm a huge fan of VIVOBAREFOOT shoes. I've been wearing them for about 12 years now. And one of the main reasons I love them is because when I'm wearing Vivos, I feel fully connected to the ground beneath my feet. What do we want? We want feet that move naturally. And because Vivos are wide, thin, and flexible, your foot can move in the way that it's meant to. A lot of modern shoes are stiff, they're narrow. They start to manipulate the way your foot functions. Whereas in Vivos, your feet can do what they're meant to do, and that means they help your feet become stronger. There was this trial that showed within four months of wearing Vivos, your feet are around 60% stronger. Your feet are your foundation, and when you've got problems in your feet, it goes all the way up the chain. It can go to your ankle, to your knee, to your hip, to your back, and even to your shoulder and neck. And as a doctor, I have seen back pain, hip pain, and knee pain actually start to get better when people start to wear barefoot shoes. To get 20% off your first order, go to vivobarefoot.com/livemore. If we go back to that race, because I think coming into that marathon race in Paris, you were hoping to maybe get three consecutive golds.

   6. EKEliud Kipchoge32:48

      Absolutely.

   7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee32:48

      That was your plan, right?

   8. EKEliud Kipchoge32:49

      Yes.

   9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee32:49

      The goal.

   10. EKEliud Kipchoge32:50

       Yes.

   11. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee32:50

       Right?

   12. EKEliud Kipchoge32:50

       Yes.

   13. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee32:50

       Which then, as we said before, the goal allowed you to put a training plan in place-

   14. EKEliud Kipchoge32:55

       Yes

   15. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee32:56

       ... to try and achieve that goal. During that race, can you just talk us through at what point did you start to realize something was wrong? What was your self-talk like? Because a lot of people struggle with negative self-talk. And, you know, was it hard for you to get to that point where you thought, "Actually, you know what? I'm gonna pull out"?

   16. EKEliud Kipchoge33:18

       Of, at 20 kilometers, actually, I feel my legs actually is, is no longer moving. I have some pain and, you know, it can't come half the way, I think. Then I try to push on and push and push, but I realize I can't go anywhere. So a lot was going on in, in my mind. Can I finish within the time? Can I just stop? What can I do? Then I made a decision to stop and move on. Uh, stopping actually for me was the hardest thing ever. Not finishing actually was the hardest thing ever. I was the oldest athlete there. And you know what comes in a lot in the social media that, hey, somebody send me a, a message that the best dancer knows when to leave the stage. Just a small text like that. In other words, in other words, he was telling me, "It's your time to leave the stage, Eliud." But I took it in a positive way and just read the message and leave, because I know what I am doing. So I... It was a lot going on, retirement, leaving the sport, just going to do other things. But what can I do? What can I do to empower this world? Which tool can I, can I use as a messenger to take my messages across the world? Then the answer was this. Don't leave the sport. Fight within the sport. S- Make this sport your great messenger-

   17. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee35:04

       Yeah

   18. EKEliud Kipchoge35:04

       ... to empower the world. Then I woke up, go to training, and here I am now.

   19. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee35:14

       When you pulled out of that race, was it intentional to let the runners pass you first?

   20. EKEliud Kipchoge35:22

       Uh, I realize I can't move on anymore. Then I say, "Hey, let me start to jog around." Just jog because I, I didn't see anybody who can... I didn't see any, any car actually coming for me to jump in and go the tour at the, the finishing line. Then I jogged slowly by slowly and would start to walk and, you know, just decided to say, "Let me stop, wait for, for, for the, for the people who are actually, uh, uh, taking people to the finishing line." And-

   21. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee35:54

       Yeah

   22. EKEliud Kipchoge35:54

       ... yeah.

9. 35:55 – 42:37

   Humility in disappointment: walking with the crowd and letting go of anger

   1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee35:55

      It's interesting. You talk a lot about values and running with the values of humanity. And a lot of people had a huge amount of respect for you that when you stopped, you walked with a lot of the crowds.

   2. EKEliud Kipchoge36:13

      Yeah, I walked with over 600 people on the way.

   3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee36:16

      Yeah. And you took your sh- your vest off.

   4. EKEliud Kipchoge36:18

      I took everything off.

   5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee36:18

      You signed things. You gave people things.

   6. EKEliud Kipchoge36:20

      My socks, everything. So I say these are their gift because they are giving me-I have inspired them. You know, people actually a lot are coming from, uh, North and South America, Asia, uh, everywhere, Europe, Africa, and I say, "Hey, let us work together."

   7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee36:41

      Yeah.

   8. EKEliud Kipchoge36:41

      "Let, let, let, let us actually, you know, running as a movement, let us use this vehicle actually to, to move things in this world."

   9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee36:48

      It was a wonderful moment, and I think it really... You know, again, people call you the greatest of all time, I think, for a variety of different reasons. Yes, your athletic ability, the records, the wins. But I don't think it's just that. I think it's the humility, it's the way you conduct yourself, the values with which you race, and I think you walking at the Paris Olympics after you'd pulled out, you must have been very disappointed. You'd never done that before, yet even in that moment of disappointment, you were able to conduct yourself with this sort of humility and this warmth. You didn't seem to be angry and didn't wanna talk to anyone and, "Go off. Leave me alone." You were there with this supportive community. It was quite incredible to watch.

   10. EKEliud Kipchoge37:45

       Yes. So, uh, you know, humility is the key. And, you know, understanding life is the best thing ever. They say if anger actually is a weed which can destroy you. But if you manage to throw away anger, that's the only way to get knowledge and, you know, think straight and do the right things.

   11. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee38:11

       Yeah.

   12. EKEliud Kipchoge38:12

       And I believe that the moment you are, you are humble in a good way, that's the best time actually to think and be on the right course.

   13. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee38:22

       Yeah.

   14. EKEliud Kipchoge38:22

       Yeah.

   15. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee38:24

       How do you feel now, almost a year on from the Olympics? You had this plan. You had this goal, third consecutive gold. It didn't happen. Do you regret that now, or do you think that you pulling out of that marathon has taught you incredible things about life that you could not have learnt had you not been through that experience?

   16. EKEliud Kipchoge38:46

       Absolutely. You know, pulling out of the Paris Marathon actually touched my heart, and I learn a lot because it, let us say, uh, the best things had happened last year, and I won that gold medal. For now, I didn't actually know how to handle the setbacks. I didn't know, I could not have the knowledge on how to sit down, see what has been happening behind my back, what has been happening for the last twenty years. Try to wake up, sit on the chair, and you know, see the table in, uh, one eye and draw another roadmap.

   17. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee39:32

       Mm.

   18. EKEliud Kipchoge39:32

       But I think, I thank, I thank God that, uh, it happened in Paris. Now I think I am, I am, I am holy enough to handle any setback which comes in-

   19. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee39:44

       Yeah

   20. EKEliud Kipchoge39:44

       ... in my own, my way.

   21. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee39:46

       They say, don't they, we learn more from our bad races than our good races.

   22. EKEliud Kipchoge39:50

       Yes. [laughs]

   23. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee39:51

       And one of the things that I find myself trying to teach or share with my children quite a lot these days is when something doesn't go to plan for them, one of the questions I ask them is, "What has this situation taught you that you would never have learnt had it not occurred?" It's my way of trying to get them to start taking that sort of mindset to life, the mindset that I didn't have until recently, that when things don't go to plan, there's always a learning opportunity if you train yourself to look for it.

   24. EKEliud Kipchoge40:30

       Yes, that's, uh, that's exactly what, uh... You know, anything you fail, then you actually scoop the learnings.

   25. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee40:40

       Yeah.

   26. EKEliud Kipchoge40:41

       Uh, but anything you get, it become a success. It's hard to actually focus on the positives.

   27. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee40:49

       Yeah.

   28. EKEliud Kipchoge40:50

       But if you fail, to actually get those, those negatives is very easy and learn from it.

   29. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee40:56

       Was you pulling out of the 2024 Olympic marathon, do you regard that as a failure?

   30. EKEliud Kipchoge41:03

       Not real failure, but, uh, you know, anything can happen in life, and you can't control. Your hands cannot handle, but life must continue. That's the thing I've got. I have, I realized that you can spend five months and fail to clinch what you have been doing.
10. 42:37 – 47:48

    When goals become identity: process-first mindset and daily variability

    1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee42:37

       Yeah. Something I think about a lot, Eliud, you know, that there's a, there's a narrative that goals are always good. But I don't believe anything in life is always good. It depends on what's going on behind that goal, okay? If the goal is there to say something about who you are as a human being, then I think that goal can be- become problematic. I don't know if you've heard of the, um, the English rugby player, Jonny Wilkinson. He was one of the best rugby players in the world, and in, I think it was 2003, in the final minute of the World Cup final, he scores the winning goal, okay? So it's the kind of thing that children in rugby playing nations would dream about as, as kids, right?

    2. EKEliud Kipchoge43:25

       Yeah.

    3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee43:25

       The final minute of the World Cup final, you take the kick, and your country wins the World Cup. He did that at the age of 23. But he will share that actually that caused him 10 years of depression and anxiety and real mental health struggles. There was too much focus on the outcome, right? A lot of the things you're talking about today is about process over outcome-

    4. EKEliud Kipchoge43:50

       Yes

    5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee43:50

       ... journey over destination, and he will share that there was a real focus on the outcome. He said to me that he used to play rugby as a child for fun, to express himself.

    6. EKEliud Kipchoge44:03

       Yes.

    7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee44:03

       Then somewhere along the line, rugby said something about who he was as a human, and that's when all his problems started, right? So this idea that goals can be helpful but also limiting, I think is really, really interesting for people to think about.

    8. EKEliud Kipchoge44:22

       Uh, yes, goals can help, but it can be a limiting factor, too. That, uh, we need to have a goal, but we need to put aside, but work on the right systems and make that goal as a guidance to guide you not to fall, to guide you not to stop, to guide you not to fall astray or, or st- or do anything else. But, uh, if all of us can, can have, uh, uh, all the right systems, all the workings in front of our minds, put the goal at the back of our minds, then as the time goes, we'll grow in a good way.

    9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee45:03

       Yeah. Yeah. I was at my local Parkrun last week, okay?

    10. EKEliud Kipchoge45:06

        Yeah.

    11. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee45:06

        Saturday morning, and there's a prime example here of what we're talking about. Um, this chap who I know super well there, two years ago, he was averaging twenty-five, twenty-six minutes for his, um, Saturday morning 5K run, okay? And then for a few years, he's now transformed his lifestyle and his training, and he's now running, like, twenty-two minutes, twenty-two and a half minutes. A huge improvement from-

    12. EKEliud Kipchoge45:37

        Yes

    13. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee45:37

        ... just two years ago.

    14. EKEliud Kipchoge45:38

        Totally.

    15. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee45:38

        Okay? And then recently he ran a, he, he ran a Parkrun, and it was, like, twenty-two forty, and he was so disappointed. He's like, "Oh, man, I can't believe it. I messed up." And what was really interesting to me, I said to him, "Hey, you know, like, just two years ago, if you broke twenty-five minutes, that was amazing."

    16. EKEliud Kipchoge46:02

        Yeah.

    17. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee46:02

        Right? "But now you're disappointed, and you're really, really upset with a twenty-two forty." And it was just quite interesting to me how that goal or that-- Again, it's not for me to say. It's for him as an individual to figure out what's important to him. But there's so many things that we can't control when we just focus on the time, the weather, the wind. How much sleep did I have the night before? How stressful was my week at work, right? So the time is just the time. It doesn't show us the story behind the time, does it?

    18. EKEliud Kipchoge46:39

        Yes, absolutely.

    19. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee46:40

        So for him, I would argue that in some ways that goal is not allowing him to appreciate how far he's actually come.

    20. EKEliud Kipchoge46:49

        Uh, yes. I, I think the only thing for him is actually to understand that, uh, he has made a huge, huge improvement of three minutes, which is really huge.

    21. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee47:01

        It's huge.

    22. EKEliud Kipchoge47:03

        But, uh, not all days are equal. He can run nineteen minutes tomorrow. Next week he can run twenty-five minutes, and that's life in sport.

    23. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee47:14

        That's life. [chuckles]

    24. EKEliud Kipchoge47:15

        Yes. And you can run twenty-five minutes next week, and the following day you can run nineteen again. That's how the body actually reacts in sport. So it needs understanding that, uh, uh, uh, the moment we are okay, we are okay.

    25. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee47:31

        Yeah.

    26. EKEliud Kipchoge47:31

        The moment we feel our energy actually is, is average, we appreciate the average energy. When our energies actually are at 90%, we appreciate also and we, and, and, and we press our bodies to the limit.

11. 47:48 – 1:01:31

    Mindset as a skill: discipline, trust, and the “busy is in the mind” debate

    1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee47:48

       You said before that running is not just about the legs, it's also about the heart and the mind.

    2. EKEliud Kipchoge47:56

       Yes.

    3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee47:57

       What does that mean?

    4. EKEliud Kipchoge47:58

       Um, I say that actually I'm not training with my own legs, but it's about my heart and my mind. That what drives me is what I'm putting in my heart, put in my mind, and say it with my mouth, that I need to control my body. And the moment I have internalized about running in my heart, then to control my legs is really easy because it can move because the body is just a body. But, you know, respecting and putting your everything, the running in your heart and, you know, making your mind to control everything, it's what's needed.

    5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee48:41

       This whole idea of controlling our minds, it's something that a lot of people struggle with. I recently saw an interview with the amazing tennis player Novak Djokovic, and the interviewer said something to Djokovic, said something like, um, "You've, you have the gift of a strong mindset." And Novak stopped the interviewer, said, "No, this is not a gift. This is a skill that I've worked on and cultivated." How do you work on and cultivate the skill of a positive mindset?

    6. EKEliud Kipchoge49:17

       Um, I am using actually what I'm doing in training, that if I train for four months, running 50%, 70%, 90%, I don't care if trainings are up and down, but hitting the targets and feeling that I am okay, then that's the way to build a fit mind. And that's, that's my only skill that I am using. The moment I am happy with my trainings, then my mind is happy also. Because, you know, the moment I don't-- I'm not happy with the training, the mind is not happy and, and, and that's a real, real challenge. So I need to train in a happy way and, you know, and the mind will be calm enough knowing that all is well.

    7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee50:08

       Is this the reason that you say that discipline is what leads to freedom?

    8. EKEliud Kipchoge50:13

       Absolutely, yes. I always say those who are disciplined are the free people. The moment you do what you know more every day without missing it, that's your mind will cope it, your body will cope it, and, and you know, then your profession will be clean.

    9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee50:33

       Yeah.

    10. EKEliud Kipchoge50:34

        Yeah.

    11. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee50:35

        One of my roles for many years as a doctor has been to help patients make different choices with their lifestyle and their eating habits. Okay? And one of the things I often share with people is this idea that saying you're going to do something and not doing it is one of the most toxic things you can do. Because you say, "I'm gonna do something," and then by not doing it, you show yourself that you can't trust yourself, you can't rely on yourself. And I think about that when I hear you talk about discipline. To me, it seems that by you having a training plan and doing it and committing to it, you're building up that trust in yourself, right? You know that actually I said I was gonna do it, and I did it. Which is why I think a lot of people struggle. They make New Year's resolutions. They say, "I'm gonna do this this year," and they do it for two weeks, and then they stop, and then they don't do it anymore. And there's many reasons for that, but I think they start to break the trust that they have with themselves. The word that they give to themselves, they're breaking. So I say to people, "Listen, make your goals less. Maybe it's just one thing, but do that one thing every day, because by doing that thing, you build up trust in yourself over time." And it sounds very much that you have a, a similar approach to training. It, it-- Do you think it helps you build that trust in yourself, which is what you, of course, need when you're in the middle of a race?

    12. EKEliud Kipchoge52:15

        Uh, abso-absolutely. As you know, uh, uh, doing everything actually without missing is creating trust between my core, my trainings, and myself. Trust is a cement between me and what I am doing. Trust is of huge value. It-- which can destroy you if you don't take care of it. So you need to mix it well. You need to make that trust actually have real, real, uh, uh-- to make it real, real hard. Because, you know, between me and what I'm doing is the trust.

    13. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee52:51

        Yeah.

    14. EKEliud Kipchoge52:51

        But I respect and treat trust as a cement. It needs to be really firm, and I'm moving on a good way. The moment it's not firm, then you can't go anywhere.

    15. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee53:04

        What's the balance people need to have between discipline and compassion? What I mean by that is discipline we get taught is about, you know, the mind's in control, okay? I said I was gonna do that. I'm gonna do it. You know, um, said I'm gonna work out or walk for one hour a day. I'm gonna do that. But on some days, of course, life can get in the way, okay? People can be busy. Um, one of their family members could be sick. Um, maybe they've got an injury, and they need to rest and not move. So how do you see that balance between discipline, doing what you say you're gonna do, and compassion, where you sometimes need to be kind to yourself and allow yourself to go, "Actually, not today"?

    16. EKEliud Kipchoge53:53

        Do you know, uh, I believe the real person, most of the human beings are not busy. You can wake up and plan your days well, unless otherwise, that you have something like an injury. You have something that can prepare you not doing that thing. But any other thing, you can plan yourself-

    17. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee54:18

        Mm-hmm

    18. EKEliud Kipchoge54:19

        ... and say, "I'm at-- I am in my office up to, up to actually one o'clock, but I need to grab water and walk for forty-five minutes, come back, take shower, and go back to the office." That's creating time. There is nobody who is busy in this world. Being busy is just in our minds. But in reality, there is nobody who is busy.

    19. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee54:47

        YeahNow, I imagine there'll be some people listening to that, Eliud, who might be pushing back and saying, "Eliud, you don't understand my life. I've got two jobs to do. I don't have any help with my children. My life is busy." What would you say to that person?

    20. EKEliud Kipchoge55:06

        Uh, you know, I always tell people, before you go to sleep, know what you will be doing tomorrow. If you wake up in the morning without any plan, stay in your house. At, in the evening, just go, get a paper, write the assignments or appointments you will be doing tomorrow. Create all the timings. If you are to-- even if you are doing actually could do two jobs, there will be a loophole somewhere where you can do something.

    21. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee55:39

        Mm.

    22. EKEliud Kipchoge55:40

        Yes. So I believe planning is the key.

    23. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee55:44

        Yeah.

    24. EKEliud Kipchoge55:44

        If you sleep with your plan, that's the best.

    25. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee55:47

        Yeah.

    26. EKEliud Kipchoge55:48

        But if you don't sleep with your plan, you f- tomorrow morning, you feel like you are really crazy busy-

    27. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee55:55

        Yeah

    28. EKEliud Kipchoge55:56

        ... but you are not busy.

    29. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee55:57

        Yeah, I love that. I definitely think for some people at least, they haven't taken the time to ask themselves the important questions, get clarity on what is truly important in life. And so the lack of clarity means that we don't properly prioritize, so-

    30. EKEliud Kipchoge56:16

        Yes
12. 1:01:31 – 1:09:53

    Kenyan running culture and the power of “we”: teamwork, simplicity, and service

    1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:01:31

       guide right now, all you have to do is click the link in the description box below. I was looking at the winners list of the London Marathon for the last few years, and in the men's race at least, it's been a string of Kenyans.

    2. EKEliud Kipchoge1:01:48

       Yes.

    3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:01:50

       Why is it, do you think, that there are so many elite Kenyan marathon runners? Is it the physiology, the psychology, the culture? What is it you think?

    4. EKEliud Kipchoge1:02:07

       I think it's the culture and the thinking. It's the culture that we have enough muscles, enough, uh, our, our, our, our, our high altitude holds as well, and we have energy to run for long, and that's why East Africa are producing long distance runners. But if the world actually will come out of their cocoon, know that all of us, we are human beings. We will compete in a good way. Uh, in America, Fisher actually broke the world record indoor.

    5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:02:43

       Hmm.

    6. EKEliud Kipchoge1:02:43

       He's not a Kenyan. Mo Farah is living in United Kingdom.

    7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:02:49

       Yeah.

    8. EKEliud Kipchoge1:02:49

       He won a lot of gold medals in Olympics and World Championships.

    9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:02:53

       Yeah.

    10. EKEliud Kipchoge1:02:54

        All other marathoners actually from across all over the world are now realizing that if we train for it and work for it, we'll actually get to where people are.

    11. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:03:09

        Yeah.

    12. EKEliud Kipchoge1:03:10

        Yes.

    13. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:03:11

        One thing I notice when I watch these elite races is the Kenyan runners seem to be very close, at least from what I can tell when I watch it. There seems to be a real joy when you or another Kenyan runner sees another Kenyan runner do well. Would you say that is something that exists in Kenya, a real, yes, people are competitive, they wanna do well, but are they also happy when one of their comrades also performs well, even if that person beats them?

    14. EKEliud Kipchoge1:03:42

        Uh, absolutely. As you know, as, uh, uh, Kenyans, most Kenyans actually respect the sport, and you know that if you want to enjoy sport, you need to accept the outcome. And that's why Kenyans are happy when they see somebody else is winning and beating them. And by accepting and enjoying, that's the only way to love the sport and, you know, make the sport live again.

    15. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:04:10

        That's such an interesting point. Kenyans respect the sport. So it sounds as though the sport is the most important thing, right? That we conduct ourselves with the values associated with that sport. Now, I'm not convinced that all countries, as a generalization, have that relationship with sport. Some countries and cultures, to me, seem to be more individualistic. It's about me and my relationship with that sport, you know. I want to be the best, and the way I can be the best is by being better than others. You've never struck me as someone who thinks like that, and I, I'm also drawn to something you said in our first conversation together, that you never train by yourself, right? You're always training with your crew, with your tribe, with your group, right? You always train together. You guys run together. And I said to you last time that in countries like the UK and the US, there can sometimes be a me perspective with your sport, when it seems that you and other Kenyans have a we perspective.

    16. EKEliud Kipchoge1:05:26

        Um, for the rest of my life, for 22 years, I have never said I. I always say we as a team. I've been training for 22 years with the whole team, and when I jumped in, into the path of marathon, then our management actually started a running club called NN Running Team, and we try to sell the narrative of teamwork. And our motto is, because running is a team sport. I believe that running actually in general is a team sport, and it makes you to get the best result when you are with a team. I always tell my people, "Team is a group of people who trust each other, and team is a group of people who are working to create a community of runners and spread the gospel of running."Across the world. And you know, if all of us, if all of the partners can see us as people, then you are going far. You know, I always tell p- uh, uh, my training partners that, uh, a training camp is not a training camp if athlete is not there. An office is not an office. People are the office. What makes a training camp are the people inside. What makes an office is the people working in that office. The moment we remove the human force, it's no longer a company, it's no longer an office, it becomes a building. And that's why I always say running is a team event. And when you win, you win alone. But what's the important thing? The important thing is what you have been going through all the way.

    17. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:07:34

        Mm-hmm.

    18. EKEliud Kipchoge1:07:35

        That the mutual interest that you exchange with your teammates. Because, you know, you were discussing that, uh, somebody got discouraged when he ran 25 minutes on 5K. Three weeks ago, he was running 22 minutes. It's because he was running alone, not with a team. Today, the whole team can run 25 minutes. Tomorrow, the whole team can run 18 minutes in 5K. The next day, they can run 22 minutes. And that's how to enjoy running with the whole team.

    19. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:08:08

        Mm.

    20. EKEliud Kipchoge1:08:08

        Because you don't measure yourself alone, you measure yourself with a team, and you enjoy.

    21. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:08:14

        Yeah.

    22. EKEliud Kipchoge1:08:14

        You don't feel that you are put your whole. You feel that you are 70% with a team. When you are alone, even if it's 60, you feel it's 90. And it's training, it makes your mind work hard. It makes your body to work more hard.

    23. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:08:28

        Yeah.

    24. EKEliud Kipchoge1:08:29

        Yes.

    25. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:08:29

        It's so interesting hearing how you talk about running being a team sport. I think there's many people in the world who think it's an individual sport. And, you know, when we read about your team and your training camp, one of the things I've read at least is that there's still a simplicity to daily life. There's a real focus on running together, resting, eating together, but also there's a rota for, let's say, cleaning toilets, okay? And we read that you're still part of that rota.

    26. EKEliud Kipchoge1:09:05

        Yes.

    27. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:09:05

        And that when it's your turn to clean toilets, it's your turn to clean toilets. Even though you're regarded as one of the greatest athletes of all time, you're still doing your part in the team. Is that correct?

    28. EKEliud Kipchoge1:09:18

        That- that's very correct. You know, it's, uh... You know, I always say, what I am saying is what I am doing.

    29. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:09:26

        Yeah.

    30. EKEliud Kipchoge1:09:27

        So I want to be a real good example by h- cleaning the toilets, cleaning the dining room, cleaning the kitchen. And the next generation can get a small teaching from myself-
13. 1:09:53 – 1:14:14

    Longevity and redefining a successful race: contribution over trophies

    1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:09:53

       Yeah. I, I love that so much, Eliud. It's, it really paints a very powerful picture and helps, at least on one level, explain this incredible humility that you have that I think draws so many people towards you. It also makes me think about what you said before about a great dancer knows when to leave the stage, right? I've been thinking about this a lot in preparation for our conversation today, okay? And I've been, frankly, I've been thinking about this a lot for years. There's, there's this phrase that people often say, "Oh, that athlete's gone on too long." Okay? They might talk about a boxer who should have retired at the top, or, uh, a golfer who keeps playing even though they're no longer winning majors, right? And the, the, the kind of societal, uh, narrative is, "Oh, they've gone on too long." But I thought, that's ridiculous. How can we say someone's gone on too long? They've only gone on too long if their relationship was only about winning and being number one.

    2. EKEliud Kipchoge1:10:58

       Yeah.

    3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:10:58

       But if their relationship was about enjoying the sport, being the best that they can on any given day, then who's to say that they've gone on too long? If that's the goal, then who the hell can say that you've gone on too long, you should have retired at the top? And so I look at your career, and I watch you when you finish sixth on Sunday. A lot of athletes these days know the correct things to say. They've been media trained, right? They say the right things. But you're someone who's not just saying the right things. It's so clear that you believe those things, like you're speaking truth. You had such a big smile on your face afterwards, and I think a lot of people who were interviewing you were confused. They were like, "Yeah, but, you know, two years ago you're breaking world records, but you're still really happy and have a smile on your face even though you finished sixth." And I'm not sure people fully understand your relationship to running and your relationship to winning. Do you know what I mean?

    4. EKEliud Kipchoge1:12:00

       Yes. Personally, I want to live in sport and tell all the athletes running marathon that running for three hours is just nothing. Longevity is the key. The more you stay in this sport, the more you learn more. Let us use this sport actually to get the right values, which can inspire the right people and make the right people to be there for long. Because, you know, if you stay for long, you get a partner with you think together and move on. It's pushing you and you are pushing them, and that's what we want.

    5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:12:40

       Mm-hmm.

    6. EKEliud Kipchoge1:12:41

       Yeah. We don't, we, we, we really need to see who are you.Ask yourself, who I, who am I? What contribution am I making in this sport? What did I bring to London Marathon? What did I bring to those one billion people who watched over the weekend? What did they learn from me? Are we on the right track? That's the questions you need to ask yourself.

    7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:13:06

       Yeah.

    8. EKEliud Kipchoge1:13:06

       Because it's not about just winning or be on the limelight for some few years and just disappearing. You will give more people hard time to write history.

    9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:13:15

       Yeah.

    10. EKEliud Kipchoge1:13:16

        And, you know, and they don't understand you because you came and just go away.

    11. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:13:20

        Yeah.

    12. EKEliud Kipchoge1:13:21

        Yes.

    13. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:13:22

        What defines a successful race for you today?

    14. EKEliud Kipchoge1:13:26

        What defines a successful race is the accomplishment that I am getting. When I finish a marathon, that's, that's success in myself. What, whom did I inspire? Whom did I motivate? Did I master running on the road in a good way-

    15. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:13:51

        Mm

    16. EKEliud Kipchoge1:13:52

        ... which can inspire the next generation? That's success. You know, to handle those pressures in training, in our trainings, in life, and, you know, and staying for four months in a good way, and managing to run all through the marathon in a good way, that's success according to me.

14. 1:14:14 – 1:34:10

    Make the world a running world: healing division, belonging, parenting, and ego reduction

    1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:14:14

       There was a world record on Sunday. I think it was around 56,000 people finished-

    2. EKEliud Kipchoge1:14:22

       Yes

    3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:14:22

       ... completed the London Marathon. You're someone who wants to spread the inspiration of running all around the world. I think you said in an interview recently that running is a movement.

    4. EKEliud Kipchoge1:14:34

       Yes.

    5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:14:34

       Okay? And you are clearly one of the leaders and spearheads of this global movement. What does it say to you that two days ago there was a world record in the number of people completing a marathon? That must give you hope, I imagine, for the future. And also, Eliud, if someone is listening right now, okay, they, they've clicked on the video because they're interested to hear what you have to say, and they hear about the life lessons you've learnt through running marathons, but they don't run, and they're scared. They're not sure if they can do a marathon. I'd also love to know if you have any words of wisdom or advice for them.

    6. EKEliud Kipchoge1:15:19

       You know, when 56,740 people cross the finishing line of the London Marathon, they have helped me to make this world a running world. They broke a world record of New York.

    7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:15:32

       Yeah.

    8. EKEliud Kipchoge1:15:32

       And I trust in future the governments, the county governments, you know, the local governments, the whole government in every country should try to accommodate over 100,000 people per weekend. And if all of us, you know, we are still far. About 1.5 million to two million people are running marathons every year. We are still far. We have a lot of job to do because the population is seven billion people. We need four billion people to run a year. We need four billion people to run.

    9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:16:11

       Why?

    10. EKEliud Kipchoge1:16:12

        Because we want to make this world a running world. And if all of us we can run, there is a lot of benefits. Let me come to anybody who was watching actually London Marathon and knowing that the record has been broken. I want to tell that person, please, get out of your door and walk. Don't run. Just walk for 20 minutes, 30 minutes, and come back. Feel the diff- the difference in your body and in your mind. Take that difference to the place of your work. Create a data in the evening, the work you have, you, you have done that day and the work you have been doing for the last one year. You will be shocked. I want to actually challenge the human resource managers. Let us make all our staff to walk and run, and you will never write any letter of sickness at all. Never.

    11. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:17:18

        The world can sometimes seem very divided, a lot of conflict, a lot of division. Do you think if more people were runners, that would help to heal the world?

    12. EKEliud Kipchoge1:17:29

        Absolutely, yes. You know, if all of us we can run, we can heal the world. It can help us to come together on the table and ask ourselves, what do you really want? Because sometimes I sit and ask myself, how do people think? You know, I respect, uh, uh, the law that, uh, we can't think together. That's against the law of nature. But also, on the other hand, the law of nature is actually allowing all of us to bring our minds together, sit on the table, discuss, bring all the ideas, put on the pocket, hear all the ideas, have an agreement, and move on. And the moment we move on, we move on with a mutual agreement in our hearts and our minds, not on the paper, because it's just a paper. It's on our hearts and our minds.

    13. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:18:30

        Yeah.

    14. EKEliud Kipchoge1:18:30

        I always ask myself, when will this happen? Because we want to see when we are still living.

    15. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:18:36

        Yeah.

    16. EKEliud Kipchoge1:18:36

        We want to see people sitting together. When we see people enjoying their lives and, you know, exchanging their ideas, everybody raising his own issues and, you know, uh, uh-Trying to think together. And, and if all of us can get out of the door and run, then you get a lot of ideas. Put the paper and the pen outside your door, run for 40 minutes, one hour, all the ideas you are getting in, come and put on paper and go back, take shower, go to the job. Work on the ideas when you get, when you get back home.

    17. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:19:07

        Yeah.

    18. EKEliud Kipchoge1:19:07

        And, and we, we luckily transformed this world.

    19. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:19:10

        Yeah. I don't know how much of an issue this is in Kenya, Eliud, but certainly here in the UK, many people feel self-conscious. So let's say people have got, you know, a body that they're not happy with, that they're not proud of, that they may be a bit ashamed of. Sometimes, I know because I've had patients tell me this in the past, they are nervous to go out running because they don't like their body, and they don't like what people might think of them when they do go running. What do you say to them?

    20. EKEliud Kipchoge1:19:49

        Can I tell you something?

    21. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:19:51

        Please.

    22. EKEliud Kipchoge1:19:52

        This world belongs to all of us. Nobody's owning the world. All of us in this world are owning the world. The whole seven billion people are owning the planet. Do what you like. Go for an exercise and come back. Don't get ashamed. Just why? It belongs to all of us, so I want to tell anybody who feels that he or she is not accommodated somewhere, no, we belong to this world. We need to fight for the space, and that's the only way.

    23. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:20:34

        Has running made you a better father?

    24. EKEliud Kipchoge1:20:36

        Absolutely, yes. Running has made me a, a, a good father, and I want to be the best father for my children, and, and, you know, bring all the children actually who are the same age with my kids and, and take them actually, uh, in a good way to this world.

    25. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:20:53

        What specifically has running taught you that's helped you become a better parent?

    26. EKEliud Kipchoge1:20:59

        Uh, it has told me, it has actually taught me about, uh, humility, that I need to be humble and transfer to my children. I need to understand more, and I'm understanding my children in a good way. I need to absorb the values which can make me the better human being, and I'm teaching them the right values to be the better human beings.

    27. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:21:21

        Yeah.

    28. EKEliud Kipchoge1:21:22

        And that's what running has actually taught me.

    29. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:21:27

        You say running is a team sport, and you have had a very close relationship with your own coach for many years.

    30. EKEliud Kipchoge1:21:34

        Yes.

Episode duration: 1:34:10