"You Feel Empty… Because This Still Owns You!” - BREAK FREE To Find Joy, Purpose & Meaning

1. 0:00 – 1:24

   Believing you’re worthy: why dreams are possible for anyone

   1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee0:00

      When I watch you online, when I listen to your podcasts-

   2. LHLewis Howes0:05

      [laughs]

   3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee0:05

      ... one of the most endearing things is that you believe that every single person has the ability to achieve their dreams. Is that realistic?

   4. LHLewis Howes0:17

      Mm-hmm. Yeah, if they believe they are worthy and deserving of achieving it, and if they're willing to do what it takes. So I believe it's possible, but that needs to happen within each person. And so I see people as a masterpiece, and usually they don't see that in themselves. And I, I learned to see that in others because I struggled with the same problem for many years. I've... I was very insecure, very unsure of myself, uncertain, didn't have peace in my heart, felt unsafe in the world, and just was, like, confused of who I am. And I think a lot of us experience that at different times. And it's been a lifelong journey of, of kind of overcoming insecurity, self-doubt, and learning to believe in all the parts of me, even the parts of me that I'm the most ashamed of or the most afraid of or have pain around. And so learning to accept those things within me, accepting my past and being at peace with it, um, not saying I have to like all these things that have happened in the past, but accepting it and being at peace with it gives me permission to pursue things with a whole heart.

2. 1:24 – 4:21

   Why his story matters: trauma, school struggles, and identity loss

   1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:24

      Now, some people may look at you, Lewis, and go, "Hey, I get it for you," right? You are a successful sportsman. You host one of the most listened to podcasts on the planet. You're successful, right? What has your success got to do with me and my life? I've got struggles. I've got insecurities.

   2. LHLewis Howes1:44

      Mm-hmm.

   3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:44

      I've got fears. Why is your story relevant for that person?

   4. LHLewis Howes1:50

      Hmm. I just think I can relate to a lot of people who struggle, um, because I struggled so much. I mean, I, I grew up, you know, in a, in a household when I, when I was eight, my brother went away to prison for four and a half years. And so growing up in a small town, um, the... I just didn't know anyone who went to prison and, and here my brother went to prison. And so I wasn't allowed to have friends for four and a half years, and I went to go visit a, a, a prison visiting room, uh, on the weekends with my family for four and a half years. So it was very confusing, sad, challenging time. When I was five, you know, I, I experienced... I've talked about this many times, but I experienced sexual abuse when I was five. It's one of my first memories as a human being, was being sexually abused by a man that I didn't know. And, and so that was confusing, scary, you know, uncertain. I felt abused. I felt taken advantage of, all these different things. And then I was also just in the bottom of my class in school. So I was always in the bottom four. They used to rank us in our grade cards. I don't know if they did this in the UK, but they would, every semester you'd get a, your grade card, and then they'd tell you what ranking you are with all your classmates. So I was always in the bottom four, in the special needs classes, and just struggled in school. So I just felt very insecure, like I had no value, no worth in school, and I thought I was dumb my entire life. And, um, the one thing that I did have ability in, that I trained myself for, that I dedicated my life to, was sports. Because I wasn't good in school, I said, "I'm gonna take all this aggression and energy a- after school into the sports field and the sports courts and, um, to pursue a dream." And I did pretty well, and I got to the professional level in professional football in America, but I got injured in my rookie season. I broke my wrist and was in a cast for six months. So my identity, you know, I don't have my dream anymore. I don't have the thing that I'm skilled at anymore to do to have value to my life. And at that time, it was 2008, 2009, when the economy was crashing in the US, and I didn't have a college degree yet. I had left early to go play f- uh, football. And so for a year and a half, I'm on my sister's couch with no money, credit card debt, no job, no opportunities, trying to figure out, you know, what am I gonna do now? And so I can... I feel like I can understand the feeling of being stuck, the feeling of being lonely, which is what I felt for a long time, the feeling of not being good enough, not, you know, being afraid that you don't have the skills necessary to, uh, make money or to get a job or to

3. 4:21 – 9:02

   The “fear list” method: training insecurities like an athlete

   1. LHLewis Howes4:21

      start something. I didn't have the confidence in myself for many years after that happened, and it took me going on a journey of really saying, "Okay, uh, these things that make me feel powerless, these fears, these insecurities, these doubts that make me feel powerless, they need to become my mission. They need to become the journey that I go on." And so I started... I literally, around 23 years old, created a fear list when I was sleeping on my sister's couch. I wrote down all the things that made me feel the most insecure, the most worthless, and the things that I was afraid to do. Um, and public speaking was one of them. Learning the salsa dance was another one. I'm happy to tell that story why that. Uh, singing in public, um, you know, starting a business, all these things, writing a book. These things were all scary 'cause I didn't think I could do them, and I didn't think I had the skills or the experience or the wisdom to be able to do them. And I just said, "One by one, I'm gonna go all in and train like an athlete in these fears and insecurities until these fears no longer consume or control me from taking action, from having courage." And by doing that, one by one, on that fear list, it, it allowed me to start feeling this incredible confidence in myself because I was doing the things that were so scary to me, and I was getting pretty good at them. It wasn't like I-

   2. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee5:42

      Mm

   3. LHLewis Howes5:42

      ... you know, just did it so I wasn't afraid anymore. I actually became great at public speaking to where I get paid a lot of money now, where I could not speak in front of three people without stuttering and stumbling 15 years ago. But by practicing every week, humiliating myself for many, many months until I learned how to fumble my way into it, I started to get better.

   4. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee6:03

      Yeah.

   5. LHLewis Howes6:03

      Same thing with salsa dancing. You know, I, I could not dance to save my life. I don't know about you, Rangan, but for me as a, you know, a white boy from the Midwest, salsa dancing is not in our vocabulary or in our culture. It wasn't something we did, salsa dancing. Um, and I looked-... completely out of place when I would s- enter a dance floor with a bunch of Latinos and Spanish-speaking music, and people speaking Spanish everywhere. I'm like, "Ah, what is going on?" But that uncomfortableness, that insecurity, that fear that I don't fit in, I don't belong, I, I'm not accepted here, I don't- I'm not supposed to be here. That, taking on that action, and humiliating myself for many months. Again, I'm not good right away. Humiliating myself and, and feeling out of place, but overcoming it after six months, and then learning how to really actually be pretty, be pretty decent, and decent enough to be able to dance with top people around the world over the last 15 years, has given me incredible confidence and belief in myself. So for people that are doubting themselves or feel like they're stuck, or they're not sure where they're, they're heading, or they feel like, "Oh, I'm just not getting a break or an opportunity," I felt that way for a long time, because a year and a half, that happened to me. I was stuck on the couch, no money. Didn't feel like any opportunities were falling my way, and that's why I had to go make the opportunities.

   6. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee7:26

      Yeah.

   7. LHLewis Howes7:26

      By writing down my fears and insecurities, and going all in on them.

   8. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee7:29

      Yeah, it's really, really powerful. There's so much there, Lewis, isn't there? There's, you know, you leaning into your fear of public speaking, leaning into your fear of salsa dancing, the imposter syndrome. I mean, these are universal experiences. You've experienced them. I've experienced them. Pretty much everyone listening or watching this show right now has or is currently experiencing them. Yet from the outside at least, Lewis, you seem to have beautifully overcome them to really make a success of your life. You definitely come across as someone who feels very calm and content, and at peace with themselves, which is very magnetic when you see someone like that a- and hear someone like that speak. But no one would blame you, Lewis-

   9. LHLewis Howes8:17

      Hmm

   10. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee8:18

       ... if you hadn't got here. You've shared, I know, about the sexual abuse you-

   11. LHLewis Howes8:23

       Mm-hmm

   12. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee8:23

       ... experienced when you were five years old, and I don't claim at all to know what that must feel like to go through that, to have that imprinted within your body-

   13. LHLewis Howes8:37

       Mm-hmm

   14. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee8:37

       ... within your mind for so many years. The shame, the secrecy. I know you've spoken about that. I think we should unpack some of it here, 'cause I think it's very, very relevant.

   15. LHLewis Howes8:46

       Sure.

   16. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee8:46

       But nobody would've blamed you, Lewis, if you hadn't made something of your life. And-

   17. LHLewis Howes8:52

       Mm-hmm

   18. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee8:52

       ... you know, you'd struggled and said, "Yeah, this happened to me." Yet you've made a conscious decision to not let that hold you back, haven't you?

4. 9:02 – 11:33

   Success fueled by pain: masks, coping, and why achievement didn’t satisfy

   1. LHLewis Howes9:02

      100%. I mean, I, I didn't want anything to hold me back, but things were holding me back for a long time. You know, in the beginning-

   2. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee9:10

      Mm

   3. LHLewis Howes9:10

      ... that pain, and that shame, and that anger and resentment, and that feeling of not f- being enough, not being worthy enough, it drove me to achieve success in sports, and then eventually in business. It drove me. It was the fuel that said, "I'm gonna prove people wrong. I'm going to, uh, you know, get back at all the doubters, anyone that criticized me. I'm gonna show them, and I'm also gonna get so, you know, successful that no one can mess with me." It's essentially a defense mechanism to protect ourselves.

   4. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee9:43

      Mm-hmm.

   5. LHLewis Howes9:43

      When something like abuse or abandonment or any type of big trauma, little trauma happens, we have different defense mechanisms. We wear masks. Some of those masks drive us to be effective, efficient, or workaholics. And other times, it, it makes us shut down or makes us shrink. It makes us, uh, overeat. It makes us overindulge, uh, or get new addictions to cope, to deal with the pain and numb the pain of, "I'm not enough. I'm not lovable. I'm not accepted. I'll never be good enough." This feeling that can be crippling, and I had kinda both of them. I had, you know, things that made me feel like I'm shrinking to numb the pain, and other things that drove me to be more successful. And every time I would accomplish success in sports or business, I remember never feeling good enough still. I ne-

   6. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee10:34

      Yeah

   7. LHLewis Howes10:34

      ... I still just, like, kind of angry and resentful after I'd accomplished big goals and big dreams after years of hard work. And a- and 20 minutes after it would happen, I just wasn't that happy, and I was wondering why. And so I was just like, "Well, maybe it's not big enough. I need bigger goals-

   8. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee10:51

      Yeah

   9. LHLewis Howes10:51

      ... and bigger dreams." And that would happen for years. And I was just like, "Okay, I just gotta keep going for more, and more, and more." And this fuel that was pushing me to run away from my past, essentially, to n- to not talk about the past, to numb it, to, uh, you know, push that pain as far back behind me as I could, it just kept coming after me. It wasn't until I'd turned around and faced it, and started to really look at it, and really have a conversation, in a weird way, with myself, who was still wounded f- as a five-year-old, who was still traumatized as an eight-year-old, who was still confused as a teenage boy going through puberty and dealing with breakups and heartaches-

   10. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee11:33

       Mm-hmm

5. 11:33 – 23:31

   Why men don’t talk: shame, belonging, and the hidden health cost

   1. LHLewis Howes11:33

      ... who was sad at 22, breaking my wrist and losing my identity. When I never faced these things, I actually finally turned around and faced those painful memories, and painful moments, and painful experiences. Because I don't know if this is the same way for you, uh, as a man in the UK growing up, the culture for me growing up in America was never to talk about your shame, your challenges, your pain, your past-

   2. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee11:58

      Yeah

   3. LHLewis Howes11:58

      ... your heartaches. It was to rub dirt on the wound, wipe your hands off, and keep moving forward.

   4. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee12:05

      Yeah.

   5. LHLewis Howes12:05

      It's not to talk about it, because when you talked about, you showed any emotion in school or in sports, it was almost like you were laughed at, made fun of, picked on, pushed out of the s- the friend circle, and a little bit bullied.And so as kids, we wanna be accepted, we wanna fit in, we wanna belong. And so we, we mold and mimic to be able to be safe in a friend group or a sports team or whatever-

   6. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee12:29

      Yeah

   7. LHLewis Howes12:29

      ... our social circle. So I never felt, and I don't blame these kids, we're all just trying to figure it out, but I, I never felt safe to communicate how I truly felt. And imagine going your whole life without feeling safe internally. It's going to do things to your health. As you know, as a doctor, it's gonna hurt your health when you're constantly in chronic stress-

   8. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee12:52

      Yeah

   9. LHLewis Howes12:52

      ... chronic anxiety, chronic, uh, rumination, chronic self-criticism. It's going to affect your nervous system. It's gonna affect your, your, your chemical makeup. It's gonna affect your brain, your heart-

   10. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee13:04

       Yeah

   11. LHLewis Howes13:04

       ... your emotions, and everything, and it's going to affect the way you see the world. And we're gonna respond and react in certain ways that are not as useful to our inner peace, to our harmony, and to our greatness-

   12. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee13:17

       Yeah

   13. LHLewis Howes13:18

       ... when we live in a state of trauma from the past, when we hold onto it, when we're unable to reveal it in a safe way. And so for me, I've had to learn how to unwire and unwind a lot of that, those lessons and that way of thinking and, and-

   14. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee13:37

       Yeah

   15. LHLewis Howes13:37

       ... living, and it started... The, the process started 10 years ago when I started The School of Greatness show. I was like, "Man, my... I'm accomplishing all this success. I'm making money. I've got awards and accolades, uh, you know, I'm building a following. But why is every relationship in my life breaking down? Why is this business partnership I had breaking down? Why is this intimate relationship not working? Why am I reactive in life? Why am I triggered so easily? Why when someone can, like, push a button on my, in my wounds, I just, ah, I react?"

   16. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee14:09

       Yeah.

   17. LHLewis Howes14:09

       "Why is that?" And I realized I was the common denominator in every one of these relationships. So there had to be something where I needed to finally take a look at. But in my 20s, I thought, like, you know, I have it figured out and there's nothing wrong with me, and don't judge me, and don't criticize me. You know, I had to protect myself because I was so insecure.

   18. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee14:29

       Yeah.

   19. LHLewis Howes14:29

       I was so... I lacked confidence. I was wounded. I was a wounded little boy inside of a man's body still.

   20. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee14:34

       Yeah.

   21. LHLewis Howes14:35

       And it wasn't until 10 years ago when I, I started the journey of healing, and it's been a constant journey. It's been up and down. It's not like this-

   22. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee14:42

       [laughs]

   23. LHLewis Howes14:42

       ... perfect straight line of getting to-

   24. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee14:45

       Yeah

   25. LHLewis Howes14:45

       ... healing and wholeness or whatever we're trying to get to. But it's, it's been a beautiful journey of learning, then applying what I learn, trying stuff, you know, having growth, making some mistakes, relearning stuff to get to the point where I'm at now.

   26. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee15:01

       Yeah. So powerful, especially someone as successful as you, Lewis, sharing things like this, uh, being a man, I think it's very, very powerful, a lot of things you've shared over the years about your own journey. You mentioned what was it like for me growing up in the UK. I think it's very similar.

   27. LHLewis Howes15:19

       Mm-hmm.

   28. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee15:19

       Men don't really share stuff like this. You just get on with it. I think that's why I'm so drawn to your story because I know you talk a lot about shame and secrecy, and how when you open up, the story no longer has the power over you. We don't realize, do we, how much these stories get wired in as children, and then as adults, we're unconsciously just playing out this wiring that we didn't even know was in there. And my dad's whole philosophy coming to the UK, Lewis, was, uh, when there's racism, when there's discrimination, you don't mention anything. You just put your head down. You get on with it. Put your head down, and you get on with it. You don't cause a fuss. So I absorbed that.

   29. LHLewis Howes16:03

       Yeah, I mean, anytime there is a shame that we have or a frustration or a hurt, and we don't address it, it stays with us-

   30. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee16:13

       Yeah
6. 23:31 – 32:16

   Lifestyle isn’t enough: emotional wounds drive behavior and illness

   1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee23:31

      It's trying to get to the root cause of it. And, you know, my own journey as a doctor, Lewis, has very much ended up currently, you know, 21 years in, that mindset, the way we think about the world, the way we approach the world, that's where it all starts, right?

   2. LHLewis Howes23:51

      Yes.

   3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee23:52

      That's why I love your work. It's why I think the book you've written's so great, because a lot of our behaviors, you know, we could talk about food and exercise-

   4. LHLewis Howes24:01

      Mm-hmm

   5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee24:01

      ... and sleep and stress and do all these things, and sure, I'm passionate about that. I've written about it. I talk to patients about it. But I've come to the realization that these are usually downstream consequences of the way we view the world-

   6. LHLewis Howes24:19

      Mm-hmm

   7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee24:19

      ... the internal stress that we carry. This is why I believe many people can't make lifestyle change stick-

   8. LHLewis Howes24:28

      Mm. Yeah

   9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee24:28

      ... because they're trying to use willpower and motivation for a few weeks, for a few months. But ultimately, the behavior there is serving a much bigger goal. It's helping you numb that-

   10. LHLewis Howes24:38

       Yes

   11. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee24:38

       ... emotional pain inside, right?

   12. LHLewis Howes24:40

       Right. I've experienced this where-You can work out, do the perfect workouts consistently-

   13. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee24:48

       Yeah

   14. LHLewis Howes24:49

       ... every day and train your body. You can eat perfectly. You can eat healthy food, perfectly cut out sugar, gluten, whatever, and eat clean vegetables, lean meat every day, two... under 2,000 calories a day, and no snacking, no sugar. You can get eight hours of sleep. You can get sunlight in the morning. You can do cold and hot showers. You can do ice baths. You can do saunas. You can do meditation. You can do it all, and you can still suffer and be unhealthy if you don't learn to process the emotional and mental traumas and triggers that cause you to react in unhealthy ways. So you could do all those things and still feel sick, and still feel hurt, and still be held back, and feel unsafe and insecure. And that's why... And I've experienced that, 'cause I did all those things.

   15. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee25:40

       Yeah.

   16. LHLewis Howes25:40

       I worked out. I ate well. I slept well. I, I tried to get eight hours of sleep, all these different things. But when your thoughts are ruminating and you're unable to sleep, and your emotions are triggered when someone cuts you off in the street, or someone says something about you you don't like, and you try to defend yourself, there's something inside of you that is wounded still.

   17. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee26:00

       Mm.

   18. LHLewis Howes26:01

       There was a moment that opened a wound inside of us emotionally that causes us then to react as a... later in life and as adults. And every time we react, it doesn't make us wrong. It's just an awareness that someone pushed a button, an emotional trigger. Where is that trigger coming from? If that wound never opened in the first place when we were 5, 10, 20, whatever it is, we wouldn't be reactive.

   19. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee26:27

       Yeah.

   20. LHLewis Howes26:28

       If we understood how to give that, that wound the time to heal and create different meaning around it. And it's not masking it and just saying, "Oh, well, I'm just gonna have a happy life anyways." That's, that's called a spiritual bypass. That's not really processing the pain authentically. That's just, you know, wiping it away, sweeping it under the rug. That doesn't work either. It's feeling the range of emotions, processing it, and really creating new meaning around it, and figuring out, how can I solve this in the future so that it doesn't happen? How can I make sure I don't abandon myself, that I speak up the next time, or that I do something or, or I use a little more courage the next time, or I just remove myself from these situations or whatever it might be, so that it's not as hurtful in the future when things happen. Because as you know, remarks, whether they're intentional or unintentional, they're gonna keep happening, to me, for whatever is gonna happen to me, for you, for everyone. We're not gonna escape, and the world is never gonna be perfect.

   21. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee27:27

       Yeah.

   22. LHLewis Howes27:27

       And people are gonna do things that are intentionally harmful and unintentionally harmful. It's how we react and respond to them, and how we create meaning around those things. As, as I'm sure you've read or you're aware of Man's Search for Meaning. It's one of my favorite books-

   23. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee27:41

       Yeah

   24. LHLewis Howes27:41

       ... by Viktor Frankl. Again, here's a man who went through one of the most horrific experiences of life, being in the Holocaust and experiencing death and, and, and ex- extreme harm around him daily, and yet he lived a life of meaning and purpose and joy and love and peace after he got out. And again, it's about the meaning we place, and it's ab- it's about allowing yourself to face it. It's about going back to the place mentally, emotionally, or physically, facing it, and allowing yourself to find peace and forgiveness in that state. Again, not needing to forgive certain people who have done harm, but forgiving yourself for holding onto the pain.

   25. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee28:21

       Yeah. Your new book is all about achieving greatness, right? And you write in the book how greatness only really begins once you decide to heal the pain and trauma-

   26. LHLewis Howes28:37

       Mm

   27. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee28:37

       ... of the past.

   28. LHLewis Howes28:39

       Yes.

   29. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee28:39

       And, you know, you've touched on that already throughout this conversation, that, you know, you have that typical story, Lewis, where you were in your 20s-

   30. LHLewis Howes28:47

       Mm-hmm
7. 32:16 – 42:10

   Greatness vs. external results: Jordan/Kobe, pressure, and inner harmony

   1. LHLewis Howes32:16

      Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. When I interviewed Kobe before he passed, I asked him what greatness was to him, and he talked about, you know, being in a place where you give your ultimate best at the thing you're doing so that you inspire others to give their best, and then they inspire others to give their best.

   2. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee32:39

      Mm.

   3. LHLewis Howes32:39

      So it wasn't about, like, win at all costs. It was about giving your best in the endeavor you're doing, but being an inspiration, a symbol of greatness for people in your life, or anyone that's a witness of what you're doing, so that they wanna be a symbol for the people in their life, and they wanna impact people in their life. It's about the ripple effect.

   4. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee32:58

      Yeah.

   5. LHLewis Howes32:59

      And it wasn't about, like, be number one and winning everything that's greatness. Um, and a f- interesting story about Kobe, he told me that his first summer, he did, like, a summer league of basketball when he was, like, 12 or 13, and he didn't score one point the entire summer. In, like, every game, there was not one time he scored. And he mentioned that his, his parents said, "Hey, we love you either way. Whether you score every point or no points, we still love you." And he said them saying that gave him permission to then go out and fail, and go out and-

   6. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee33:36

      Yeah

   7. LHLewis Howes33:36

      ... try harder, and go out and, like, do it from a place of love as opposed to, "I'm not enough. Let me go prove I'm enough." And again, there's two different paths. There's the, "I'm not enough. Let me go get big, fast, strong, and do whatever it takes to win." And then when you win, you might feel enough for a moment, until you don't. Because as the late, uh, Wayne Dyer used to say, he used to give this analogy, I was a big Wayne Dyer fan, where he would say, when you have an orange and you squeeze the orange, what comes out of the orange is orange juice, because that's what's inside the orange. When you squeeze it, orange juice comes out, 'cause that's what's inside. When you apply pressure to a human being and you squeeze the human, you put pressure through him, and it's adversity, a challenge, life pressures, what comes out of the human is what's inside of the human being, and that might be pain, anger, resentment-

   8. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee34:35

      Mm

   9. LHLewis Howes34:35

      ... a fear, a drive to be right, uh, make people wrong. And when... That's when you see people, when there's pressure, you see them react or respond in different ways based on what's inside of them emotionally, mentally, spiritually.

   10. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee34:48

       Yeah.

   11. LHLewis Howes34:48

       And so that's why we must cultivate what's inside of us to be a, an environment of peace, harmony, love, and an environment of a drive from a sustainable energy, which is abundance-

   12. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee35:04

       Yeah

   13. LHLewis Howes35:04

       ... not from fear, insecurity, or lack. And when we can cultivate that more consistently, again, we're all human beings and no one's perfect here, but when we can do that more consistently, we show up better when life happens, when adversity happens. When we have a, a, you know, sickness in our family that we're facing and it's fairly sad and it's hard to deal with, when we have a job loss that we're dealing with, a transition, economy crisis, a crash in the market, and we deal with challenges of life, how we react is based on what's inside of us.

   14. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee35:37

       Yeah.

   15. LHLewis Howes35:37

       And so that's why we must face the things inside of us, heal, create new meaning around these memories that cause us to hurt ourselves and others, so that we can have more peace moving forward.

   16. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee35:48

       Yeah, really powerful. That orange analogy's fantastic. Thank you for sharing that. What a privilege to have interviewed Kobe Bryant, uh, before he died. Uh, a really, really powerful conversation. Just a couple of things on that, Lewis, as you were sharing that story. Number one, I love what you said about what his parents said to him, that, "We don't mind whether you score or you don't score, we still love you."

   17. LHLewis Howes36:17

       Yes.

   18. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee36:17

       And as a parent myself, I've been a dad now for 12 years. As someone, and I've shared this story in my last book and, and many times on the show. As, as, as a child who really felt, again, I'm not putting blame on my parents to this-

   19. LHLewis Howes36:33

       Mm-hmm

   20. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee36:33

       ... but I, for whatever reason, took on the belief that I was only loved-When I was top of the class, when I-

   21. LHLewis Howes36:42

       Mm-hmm

   22. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee36:42

       ... had full marks, when I was the straight-A student, right? So I took that belief into adulthood, and it has caused me a lot of problems for sure.

   23. LHLewis Howes36:50

       [laughs]

   24. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee36:51

       A lot of internal pain. Yes, on the outside it's driven a lot of success.

   25. LHLewis Howes36:55

       Results. Yeah.

   26. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee36:56

       Yeah, but at a huge internal cost. Again, I feel I've repaired a lot of that now.

   27. LHLewis Howes37:01

       Yeah.

   28. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee37:01

       And I, I really do feel the sense of calmness and contentment. But as a parent, because often as parents we try to overcorrect. You know, we perceive-

   29. LHLewis Howes37:10

       Mm-hmm

   30. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee37:10

       ... what happened to us and go, "Right, that's not gonna happen to my child." And I do wonder sometimes, am I overcorrecting with my own kids? But one thing I do-
8. 42:10 – 53:33

   The Greatness Mindset framework: powerless patterns vs. empowering practices

   1. LHLewis Howes42:10

      ... a safe person to talk to or someone confidential to talk to I think is important. And it's one of the elements of the greatness mindset. And, uh, I'm not sure if I got you a physical hard copy over there, but on page 201, I give a graphic in the book.

   2. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee42:24

      Yeah.

   3. LHLewis Howes42:24

      And I'm just, I'm happy to explain it. It's kind of like an assessment. This is to ask yourself and to reflect, are you living in a powerless mindset state of being, or are you more in the greatness mindset? So this is a way for you to reflect and just ask yourself. You don't have to tell anyone, but just to think about yourself. Am I more powerless right now or am I more in greatness? And it doesn't mean you're bad and wrong.... if you're in a powerless state. It doesn't mean you can't be effective. It doesn't mean you can't get results in your life and get a relationship and all these things. It just means that there are certain things that still have power over you from being more effective, from having more joy-

   4. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee43:02

      Yeah

   5. LHLewis Howes43:02

      ... more love, more peace, more harmony, and therefore attracting more of what you want in your life, creating and manifesting more of what you want in your life. So a powerless mindset [lips smack] is someone that lacks a meaningful mission, and I believe the enemy of greatness is lacking a meaningful mission. You know, there's nothing more dangerous than a man without a mission, a wandering man who's just susceptible to all of life's desires, pleasures, and-

   6. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee43:28

      Mm

   7. LHLewis Howes43:28

      ... uh, you know, anything that could pull him away from-

   8. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee43:31

      Yeah

   9. LHLewis Howes43:31

      ... something intentional. So lacking a meaningful mission just means you're, you're not clear on what you want, and when you're not clear, you're in a state of confusion. And we can have transitions, we can have off-seasons, we can have seasons of life where we're in recovery, we are in discovery.

   10. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee43:50

       Yeah.

   11. LHLewis Howes43:50

       But just be clear that this is a season of recovery and discovery and figuring things out, but that's what you're clear on for that mission. Number two is you're controlled by fear. Again, fear's gonna happen, but when it controls us, we are in a powerless state. So we need, must learn how to face and embrace it and manage and work with fear, but not let it control us. Number three is crippled by self-doubt. This is something that held me back for many years.

   12. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee44:17

       Mm.

   13. LHLewis Howes44:17

       This was the whole... The whole start of the School of Greatness was to figure out how I can overcome self-doubt, because I was successful, but I still doubted myself, and that's what hurt me and caused me to be insecure-

   14. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee44:29

       Mm

   15. LHLewis Howes44:29

       ... second-guess, people please. I was an extreme people pleaser, uh, 'cause I was crippled by self-doubt. Number four, conceals past pains. I think there's 20,000-plus books on mindset and success. If you go on Amazon, you'll see 20,000 different books. Most of them talk about discipline, willpower, which you mentioned, um, hard work, grit, all these things that we think of with success. But I don't know many of them that talk about revealing past pains-

   16. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee45:00

       Yeah

   17. LHLewis Howes45:01

       ... and healing, and I just think that is everything.

   18. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee45:04

       Yeah.

   19. LHLewis Howes45:04

       You know, you can teach people how to work hard, set goals, you know, show up on time, be consistent, but it's so much harder to deal with the stuff inside of us that is messy and scary, and I just think that's what gives us peace and freedom. So concealing past pains, it doesn't mean you're bad or wrong. It just means you're more powerless because you're concealing something. You're afraid that if someone knows this about you, they won't accept you or love you, but typically it's 'cause you don't accept and fully love yourself.

   20. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee45:32

       Yeah.

   21. LHLewis Howes45:32

       And so that's what you're most afraid of. The fifth thing is defined by the opinions of others. Again, this was something that crippled me for years. I wasn't afraid of failure or success, because I knew failure was the path to success, and I wanted to be successful, but I was afraid by the opinions of others. So I would people please, I would get defensive anytime someone left criticism. I would, uh, you know, say yes to everyone 'cause I wanted people to like me, and it caused me to feel overwhelmed, stressed, and I would abandon myself. And the, the sixth thing is drifting towards complacency. Um, I just think you're more powerless when you're not in a state of trying to grow, learn, or create something-

   22. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee46:12

       Yeah

   23. LHLewis Howes46:12

       ... to help others. And so it's just asking yourself, "Do I have any of these six things that come up from time to time or daily?" And it doesn't make you wrong or bad, because I've had all of these at different times in my life, and I was still effective in certain areas, but I wasn't feeling the way I wanted to feel-

   24. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee46:31

       Yeah

   25. LHLewis Howes46:31

       ... when I was effective. The greatness mindset is driven by a meaningful mission. And Rangan, for me, I have a one-sentence meaningful mission that guides me. It directs me on which direction to go. It helps me make clearer decisions. It gives me more focus. A greatness mindset is having a clear, meaningful mission and driven by that. Turning fears into confidence. We talked about that a little bit earlier, about how I created a list, a fear list, and I went all in on these fears until the fears went away-

   26. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee47:01

       Mm

   27. LHLewis Howes47:01

       ... until they disappeared. And we all are gonna face fears at different times and at different seasons. I'm not a father yet, Rangan, so I'm as- I'm assuming when I am a father I'm gonna have to face new fears-

   28. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee47:13

       Yeah

   29. LHLewis Howes47:13

       ... new insecurities, new uncertainties. Uh, what do I do here? I don't know. And so I'm gonna always need to face new fears at different seasons of life, and we have to turn those into confidence.

   30. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee47:24

       Yeah.
9. 53:33 – 58:09

   Meaningful mission and seasons of life: identity beyond mechanisms

   1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee53:33

      ... in one sentence. What is your meaningful mission?

   2. LHLewis Howes53:35

      Yeah. Mine is to serve and impact 100 million lives weekly to help them improve the quality of their life, and it's clear. It's one sentence. It's one direction. And I'm not beholden to a certain mechanism.

   3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee53:49

      Yeah.

   4. LHLewis Howes53:50

      You know, again, I didn't say, like, "My goal is to be the number one podcaster in the world." It is to serve 100 million lives weekly. So I'm striving to get to that place, to be able to reach and serve, you know, 100 million lives weekly, which allows me to... Again, the mechanisms can evolve and change, but the mission is the same, and it's clear. And that may evolve. That may change.

   5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee54:13

      Yeah.

   6. LHLewis Howes54:13

      It doesn't mean I have to be stuck with this mission for the rest of my life. It's just the season of life that I'm in-

   7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee54:19

      Yeah

   8. LHLewis Howes54:19

      ... that's the mission that I'm on. When I was on my sister's couch, it was just, how do I make enough money to get off my sister's couch? I couldn't think beyond that. I was just like, "How do I be a grown-up?" You know, "Let me figure this out. Let me overcome fears." That's the season and the mission that I was in. Uh, and then once I was overcoming that, then I was able to see farther and say, "Okay, what's my new mission? I'm gonna transition. Okay, great."

   9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee54:40

      Yeah.

   10. LHLewis Howes54:40

       And I think a lot of people aren't clear on their meaningful mission. They know, like, "Oh, I've got this job that I wanna do," or, "I've got this idea," or, "I've got this career path," or, "I've... I wanna be in a relationship." Okay, but what is the meaning of it?

   11. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee54:53

       Yeah.

   12. LHLewis Howes54:53

       What is the purpose of it? And just, this allows you-To get clearer on scheduling your time, to get clearer on what you say yes and no to.

   13. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee55:04

       Yeah.

   14. LHLewis Howes55:04

       Because if I... Without a meaningful mission, then I'm just like, "Oh, there's so many projects I wanna do. I wanna do them all." Okay, great. But diluted efforts get diluted results, as my friend Rory Vaden says. And so we don't wanna dilute everything. You can, you can do that, and that, if that's the life you wanna live, there's nothing wrong with that, but it's probably not gonna be the most impactful on optimizing something.

   15. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee55:27

       Yeah.

   16. LHLewis Howes55:27

       So it just depends on what you want.

   17. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee55:28

       A couple, couple of really important things you've just touched on, Lewis, which I'd, I'd love to just respond to. One is the seasons of life. I think that is so important for people to really take a minute to, to sit with. Because I think sometimes we hear people on podcasts, or someone that people look up to say something and think that that has to apply to us at this moment in life-

   18. LHLewis Howes55:52

       No

   19. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee55:52

       ... and in every moment in life. But as you so beautifully put, life changes. Your goals change.

   20. LHLewis Howes55:58

       Mm-hmm.

   21. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee55:58

       That, that... I think it's a really nice way to think about it. I'm thinking about maybe someone who's listening to the show at the moment who maybe is a mother of children, and at the moment, part of their meaningful mission may well be different from when their kids have left home in five years.

   22. LHLewis Howes56:14

       Yes.

   23. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee56:15

       You know?

   24. LHLewis Howes56:15

       Exactly.

   25. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee56:16

       Because it's a different season in our life. I thought that was really important, but also what you said about your mission.

   26. LHLewis Howes56:23

       Mm.

   27. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee56:24

       And the mission doesn't really get lost in the mechanism of delivery, right? You can be, uh, serving that mission through your books, through your podcast, through some social media posts. Maybe you're gonna go on a book tour and talk to people. You've got multiple delivery mechanisms for that mission-

   28. LHLewis Howes56:43

       Yes

   29. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee56:43

       ... right? And I was thinking when you were talking about someone with that job, well, the job is a mechanism, right? It's a delivery-

   30. LHLewis Howes56:51

       Yes
10. 58:09 – 1:07:16

    Olympic handball story: pursuing a mission even without the end result

    1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee58:09

       All right. Let's go to a thought experiment then, Lewis, which just came to me.

    2. LHLewis Howes58:12

       Give it to me.

    3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee58:13

       Okay. So you got your mission. You wanna impact these-

    4. LHLewis Howes58:16

       Mm

    5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee58:16

       ... 100 million people every week. Now, of course, being as successful as you are, you have mechanisms by which you can reach a lot of people-

    6. LHLewis Howes58:23

       Yeah

    7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee58:24

       ... each week. Now, let's imagine overnight-

    8. LHLewis Howes58:28

       Mm

    9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee58:28

       ... podcasting disappeared, right?

    10. LHLewis Howes58:30

        Yeah.

    11. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee58:31

        Social media disappeared. YouTube disappeared, right? So a lot of these delivery mechanisms you currently rely on to meet your meaningful mission-

    12. LHLewis Howes58:42

        Mm

    13. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee58:42

        ... they vanish.

    14. LHLewis Howes58:44

        Mm-hmm.

    15. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee58:44

        What do you do, like, tomorrow? How do you then approach this mission when all these things that you've relied on no longer exist?

    16. LHLewis Howes58:53

        Yeah, I mean, if that was the case, it would have to be... I would try to see if there's other mechanisms that could reach masses of people. So is that TV? Is that newspapers? Is that magazine? I would just look for other outlet- Is that WhatsApp? I don't know. I would just look for other outlets. If all those went away and there was no way to reach masses of people in short periods of time, for whatever reason, then my mission would evolve into changing the number.

    17. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee59:19

        Yeah.

    18. LHLewis Howes59:20

        And it always starts with one. So even though my mission is to serve 100 million lives weekly to help them improve the quality of their life, like, if this reaches one person, this book, and you know, it's, it's gonna reach a lot of people, but if it reaches one and it impacts them, I'm also in my mission.

    19. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee59:38

        Yeah.

    20. LHLewis Howes59:38

        I'm also living in my mission of service, of impacting one person to improve the quality of their life. And so that is still in part of my mission, and that doesn't mean I've failed if only one person a day is in, that I'm in service to. The milestone of the end mission would be to get to 100 million lives. That allows me to think creatively and get out of my comfort zone. That allows me to say yes and no to things that could support me getting there faster. That allows me to use my time more wisely, to create media, content, and say yes or no to things that could reach more people, because that's the goal. If the ability wasn't able to reach more people, that wasn't available, I could still have that mission in place that I wanna reach 100 million lives every week, but maybe I'm only reaching 10 a, a, a week. I'm still not gonna beat myself up, because I'm in service, and I think that's what we gotta look at. You know, and here's a, here's an interesting concept for you. It's a great example for you. I wanted to be an Olympian. I wanted to go to the Olympics. My entire life I wanted to do this, uh, and when I got injured playing football, I was in my cast living on my sister's couch, and during this time, the 2008 Summer Olympics was on during this time. So I'm kinda down and out. I'm kinda like, you know, a little depressed because I realize my dream of playing football is probably over.And I was in denial for a little bit 'cause I thought, "Oh, I'm gonna heal up in six weeks, come back, and train for the next season." But life happened, and it took me six months in a cast and another year to recover. But I'm watching the Olympics in 2008, and I see this sport that I'd never seen before, ever, and I'd watched every sport. But the sport came on in the Olympics at, like, 3:00 AM called team handball, and it's pretty much unknown in the US. It's like water polo, but on a basketball court with no water is kinda how it looks like.

    21. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:01:39

        Mm.

    22. LHLewis Howes1:01:39

        And it's, um, it's not that big in USA or the UK, but it's big in other countries in Europe. And I saw this sport, and I go, "Wow, this is fascinating. I feel like this is the sport I was meant to play." It was kind of perfect for my size and my abilities as an athlete. And I said to myself in 2008, "I am going to go to the Olympics. This is the dream. This is the mission." And I said, "Well..." I started doing research. Okay, is there teams in the USA? Is there a team in Ohio, where I was living? Like, how do I join a team? How do I learn this sport? There was really not much information, and I realized that there were no teams except for club teams in specific cities. There was nothing in Ohio. I saw that the national champion club team was in New York City at the time. I tried to reach out to people, tried to see if there's a phone number for the club. There was nothing. So I said, "Okay, when I make enough money, I'm gonna move to New York City, and I'm gonna go play with this team and try to make the USA National Team." Two years goes by. I eventually make enough money. I go to New York City. I join this club, this New York City handball club. The first day I get there, I say, "My name's Lewis. I'm from Ohio. I'm here to learn handball and make the USA team and go to the Olympics." They all laugh at me. They're all laughing.

    23. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:02:59

        [laughs]

    24. LHLewis Howes1:02:59

        They're like, "This is crazy. Who are you? Go back home." I stick around. In nine months, I practice with the team, I play with the team, and nine months later, I made the USA National Team. Now, f- shortly after that, I go to Buenos Aires, and I play in the Pan Am Championships. And then for eight years, I have this dream, this mission in mind that I'm going to make it to the Olympics. Now, it's a team sport, so the team has to qualify, and they only take one country from North and South America who wins the Pan Am Games to go to the Olympics. Again, that's once every four years. So you have to win this one tournament. Now, a lot of teams in South America, a lot of countries in South America that have professional teams and leagues, and they play since they're kids.

    25. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:03:46

        Mm.

    26. LHLewis Howes1:03:46

        No one in the USA plays this sport. So it's very competitive to win the Pan Am Games, and we haven't done it in, like, I don't know, 30 or 40 years or something. And so we haven't been to the Olympics in 20-plus years as the USA. But if the USA hosted the Olympics, it would be an automatic qualifier. So I was hoping that we would get an automatic qualifier, and we would host the Olympics. That never happened. The last time I played was a couple years ago, and I did not accomplish the mission. But even though the dream didn't come true, doesn't mean it wasn't a dream come true. The experience, I got to play all over the world.

    27. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:04:28

        Yeah.

    28. LHLewis Howes1:04:28

        I got to wear USA against my chest. I l- grew as an athlete. I became a better leader. I, I did... I followed my dreams, and I didn't accomplish the mission. But I'm not gonna beat myself up for not succeeding-

    29. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:04:44

        Yeah

    30. LHLewis Howes1:04:44

        ... at the end mission because the eight, nine-year journey was incredible.
11. 1:07:16 – 1:10:45

    Success vs. greatness: shifting from proving yourself to serving others

    1. LHLewis Howes1:07:16

       Mm

    2. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:07:16

       ... have been as meaningful. So I think that's a really powerful story. What I think is so powerful about the book and your story is this idea that greatness only begins when you heal the pain and trauma of the past, right? We've already said that once, but I think-

    3. LHLewis Howes1:07:33

       Mm-hmm

    4. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:07:33

       ... it's such a key message for people because it's easy for people to skip that and go, "Hey, yeah, but come on, let's get to the good stuff," right? Let's get to the stuff-

    5. LHLewis Howes1:07:41

       Right

    6. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:07:41

       ... the routines.

    7. LHLewis Howes1:07:43

       I know.

    8. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:07:43

       Right?

    9. LHLewis Howes1:07:44

       Tell me how to make money, tell me how to succeed, tell me how to do these things. And here's the thing, something I've learned, there's a difference between success and greatness. My whole life, I was chasing success, and I got it.

    10. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:07:54

        Yeah.

    11. LHLewis Howes1:07:55

        But I didn't feel great. I didn't feel fulfilled. I didn't feel love. I didn't feel loved, and I didn't know how to love myself, and I had a lot of anger and resentment and frustration still inside of me. So I got the success, I achieved it. I did it in sports, then in business, then in social media. It's like I did it in lots of different ways to chase something, to get a feeling. The feeling never came-

    12. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:08:19

        Mm-hmm

    13. LHLewis Howes1:08:19

        ... because I have to cultivate the feeling from within. I have to be love. I have to be-

    14. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:08:25

        Yeah

    15. LHLewis Howes1:08:25

        ... peace. I can't have more money to create more peace. You know, and, and they, they say that more money, more problems. It's true if you don't have peace. If you have more money, you can solve money problems, but it doesn't mean you know how to manage the stress in your heart, and it probably causes more stress 'cause now you have more to, to stress about.

    16. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:08:44

        Yeah.

    17. LHLewis Howes1:08:45

        So it doesn't mean you can't solve certain things with it, but it doesn't teach you how to love yourself. It doesn't teach you how to heal. And so more success, for me, I realized, was not helping. And success by itself, my definition, is a selfish endeavor. I wanna accomplish this goal for me. I wanna make this money for me. I wanna be a doctor for me. If it's about me. Now, when it becomes greatness is when we say, "Okay, I wanna do this for me and to be of service to others in the process. I wanna do this to support myself and accomplish my dreams and goals, but I wanna do it in the support and service of others as well."

    18. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:09:27

        Yeah.

    19. LHLewis Howes1:09:27

        There's a lot of people you probably know who wanted to be a doctor because it would make them look good.

    20. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:09:31

        Yeah. [laughs]

    21. LHLewis Howes1:09:32

        It would make them be protected, make them safe, make them get respect in their community, from their family, make them have, uh, wealth for them, and that's fine. You'll be successful, but to transition to greatness is when you say, "You know what? I really wanna be a doctor because I wanna have a n- great opportunity for myself, but I care a lot about people-

    22. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:09:52

        Yeah

    23. LHLewis Howes1:09:52

        ... and their wellbeing and their health, and I really want to be of service to people. I wanna do it because I wanna be able to offer more for my family, for my kids in the future. I wanna do it for something greater than only me."

    24. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:10:03

        Yeah.

    25. LHLewis Howes1:10:03

        It's including you, your needs and wants, but also in the service of others.

    26. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:10:08

        Yeah.

    27. LHLewis Howes1:10:08

        And when we just make that slight adjustment, that's when we start transitioning from success into greatness with the service of others, that impact of the people around us, where they can ripple and impact people around them-

    28. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:10:21

        Yeah

    29. LHLewis Howes1:10:21

        ... because of the way you show up. And I just think it's a, it's a slight shift. It's going from I wanna do this to look good, to win, to be right, which is success, into I wanna do this to help others. I wanna do this to create a win for me, but also a win for others.

    30. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:10:42

        Yeah.
12. 1:10:45 – 1:26:26

    Revealing hidden trauma: from 25 years of silence to the first disclosure

    1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:10:45

       I wonder, Lewis, if you'd be open to sharing some of your journey from the abuse that happened-

    2. LHLewis Howes1:10:54

       Mm-hmm

    3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:10:55

       ... but then to that point where you felt confident enough to share that. Because what you said about men as well before, I think there'll be men listening to this right now. Many of them will have something inside of them. Maybe it's not as extreme as what happened to you, maybe it is. You said this happened when you were five years old, and please, if you don't wanna go here, that's completely fine as well-

    4. LHLewis Howes1:11:17

       Mm

    5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:11:17

       ... Lewis. Who knew? I mean, when was the first time you told somebody?

    6. LHLewis Howes1:11:22

       No one knew. No one knew until I was 30 years old. And so for 25 years, no one knew.

    7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:11:28

       No one.

    8. LHLewis Howes1:11:29

       I didn't tell anyone. No one. And so for 25 years... I remember I had a, a college professor. This was kind of the time when I first started to really... I thought about telling my professor because it was in, like, a sociology class in college, and he was talking about, like, the effects and harm of sexual abuse or something in society. And I was like, oh wow, this is the first time I'm hearing someone talk about this, and I started to reflect about it. And I remember just kind of going to him and asking him more about it, but I didn't have the courage to tell him that this happened to me, but I was like, "Can you tell me more about these effects and what this does in society-

    9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:12:07

       Mm

    10. LHLewis Howes1:12:07

        ... and this and this?" And I think maybe he knew 'cause I was, like, asking him, and was like, why is this kind of jock football player coming to my office asking me these questions [laughs] after this class? He probably maybe, like, assumed, but he didn't ask me, and he was just-

    11. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:12:21

        Yeah

    12. LHLewis Howes1:12:21

        ... kind of like answering my questions. But I really wanted to, 'cause I thought maybe it would be a safer space, but I was like, ah, I can't say it. So I just ruminated, uh, on it almost every day. This kind of memory or movie would play in my mind of the whole experience through my entire life.

    13. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:12:38

        And you told nobody. No friends.

    14. LHLewis Howes1:12:40

        Nobody.

    15. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:12:40

        Y- no one. You didn't-

    16. LHLewis Howes1:12:41

        Nobody, man

    17. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:12:42

        ... Did you ever consider it?

    18. LHLewis Howes1:12:42

        Girlfriends. I never told gir- I never told girlfriends. Like, I wanted to, but again, I didn't feel safe. I didn't feel I'd be accepted. I, I was afraid of, like, someone not loving me, not liking me. Um, so I wanted to with girlfriends, but I didn't have the courage, and I didn't have the skills or the tools or the confidence in myself to be able to speak it and be okay if someone didn't accept me. When we live in shame and insecurity-We typically don't accept ourselves. In that process, we don't belong to ourselves 'cause we're holding onto so much shame and insecurity about something that happened to us, something we did bad that we're not, uh, you know, proud of, and so we hold onto this. It means we, we're, we're not accepting it. We don't belong to it. We haven't faced it and processed it. And, and so I couldn't accept myself. That's why I had to work harder, that's why I was like, "I need to be the best. I need to win." And when I lost, I felt like I had no value.

    19. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:13:46

        Yeah.

    20. LHLewis Howes1:13:47

        So losing a sports game was extremely hard for me because it was life or death feeling is what it felt like emotionally. I know physically it wasn't, but emotionally, I was like, "If I lose, then I'm not a valuable person, then I'm not gonna be accepted, then no one's gonna like me, no one's gonna love me, so I must win at all costs." And that is a heavy price to pay, to live that way, and to feel like suffering after every loss in a, in a high school basketball game, in a college basketball game. It's not like there's some massive stakes on the line here. You know, there's some stakes, but it's not like life or death. And so when I hit 30, all these breakdowns started to happen in my life. An intimate relationship was just up and down, up and down emotional. A business partnership was up and down, up and down, and we weren't seeing eye to eye. And I was a reactive person in life. I was easily triggered at this time. Now, Rangan, I was a, I was a fun, loving, happy guy. I was very much similar to who I am now. Love people, one of the high five people, give people big hugs, like I'm a, I'm a loving guy. But when you poked the wound or wounds that were inside of me, it was like a reaction would come out. It was like I had to protect and defend myself at all costs for my honor or my respect or my whatever it was. I had to re- like defend it. So therefore, I was easily triggered in life. If someone says something to me, "Don't say that to me." Someone looked at me weird, "Don't look at me." You know, it's like this reaction, and that's all 'cause of a, a past pain or pains that I had inside of me-

    21. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:15:25

        Mm

    22. LHLewis Howes1:15:25

        ... that I hadn't faced and healed. So those were the root causes that-

    23. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:15:30

        Yeah

    24. LHLewis Howes1:15:30

        ... caused me to be responsive and reactive in unhealthy ways in situations in life. If someone cut me off in the street that I felt like, "Oh, they're trying to cut me off. Let me get up in front of them and look at them with a stare." You know, it's like-

    25. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:15:42

        Yeah

    26. LHLewis Howes1:15:42

        ... all these things that how is that serving or supporting me, my abundance, my health, and my mission? It's not helping me at all. So when I was 30, I, I got into an actual physical fight on a basketball court, and this was kind of like the last [laughs] the last breakdown. I got in a physical fight in like a no-stakes basketball game, a pickup friendly basketball game.

    27. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:16:06

        Mm.

    28. LHLewis Howes1:16:07

        And it was a pretty in, pretty intense fight, like a full-on fist fight, and I'm not proud of. And after the game, one of my best friends was there with me playing, and he goes, "Lewis, what are you doing, man?" He goes, "I don't know why you're so reactive in these situations that are meaningless. Why do you let people get under your skin? Why are you so reactive? Why are you so triggered-

    29. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:16:31

        Mm

    30. LHLewis Howes1:16:31

        ... to defend yourself? Like there's no physical threat here. It's not... Like I get if there's someone who's actually trying to hurt you physically, okay, like defend yourself, but if someone says something to you, just let it go." And, um, he was like, "I really don't wanna hang out with you anymore if you're going to keep acting this way, if you're gonna be volatile." And that was a wake-up call for me, and I remember going home after this fight kind of like shaking. I was really like shaking 'cause I was like, just got into this fight. It was a lot of adrenaline, and I was looking myself in the mirror at this time, and I was just ask myself, "Who are you?" Looking in the mirror, I looked in my eyes, and I just didn't recognize myself. And I kinda lost who I was, and I really don't know if I ever found who I was 'cause I was always chasing success to fulfill something inside of me that was not there.
13. 1:26:26 – 1:34:47

    From private to public: telling family, friends, then his audience—and finding freedom

    1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:26:26

       So, so powerful. How did you take the leap from there to going, "I'm now gonna share this with my huge global audience?"

    2. LHLewis Howes1:26:35

       It wasn't as big 10 years ago as it is now [laughs] but it felt big in terms of like, you know, sharing something with any- anyone publicly felt like, "Okay, this is out there. This is now in the world." You, you know, people have this record now, wh- whoever sees it in the future. Maybe like six months or nine months had gone by, and I... After this workshop was done, I felt like, wow, I felt accepted by this group of people because they were sharing other vulnerabilities that they were going through, and so it was a powerful experience. But I was like, huh, will my family accept me? Will my friends accept me? So it took me a few weeks-

    3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:27:16

       Mm

    4. LHLewis Howes1:27:16

       ... to get the courage to actually tell my family one by one. And I, again, I realized that this was still a fear of mine. If I can't tell my family, then it has power over me.

    5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:27:29

       Yeah.

    6. LHLewis Howes1:27:30

       Then I'm holding onto a fear and a past pain because I'm afraid of what they'll think. I'm afraid they'll judge me. I'm afraid they'll, you know, push me out of the family or whatever the fear was.

    7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:27:40

       Mm.

    8. LHLewis Howes1:27:41

       So I realized for me, I needed to tell them because this thing still had power over me. It still affected me. If I was unwilling to speak it because I was afraid, it had power over me. So I did it with my family one by one, and I was terrified. And I talked to a therapist beforehand. I said, "What's the best way to approach this?" And she gave me a great piece of advice. She said, "Call each one of them and tell them you have something vulnerable you wanna share with them. But ask them first to make sure that they're in a good setting and a good space to receive it."

    9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:28:13

       Mm.

    10. LHLewis Howes1:28:13

        "And don't share it with them unless you think they're in a good place to receive it. And ask them this question, 'Is there anything I could ever do or say that would make you not love me?' And then see how they respond. And if they respond and you feel in a safe space, then feel free to share. But if they're like, you know, making a joke-

    11. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:28:33

        [laughs]

    12. LHLewis Howes1:28:33

        ... or they're not in a good space, like maybe it's not the right time to share it." And each one of them were like, "Absolutely n- not. There's nothing you could ever do or say that would make me not love you." So they gave me, like, permission to then-

    13. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:28:44

        Mm

    14. LHLewis Howes1:28:44

        ... communicate it. And, and then I thought to myself, "Okay." But the beautiful thing is when I did that, like, each one of them opened up to me about things-

    15. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:28:51

        Yeah

    16. LHLewis Howes1:28:51

        ... that I didn't know about them, that they had experienced. It wasn't sexual abuse, but it was just other things that they, they felt like they wanted to share with me. I didn't even ask them. So it brought us closer and had a deeper relationship, more intimacy. And then I thought to myself, "Okay, well, these strangers, I'll never see them again from this workshop, so it doesn't matter as much."

    17. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:29:10

        Yeah.

    18. LHLewis Howes1:29:11

        "My family, they have to love me, but I couldn't tell my friends." And so a couple weeks go by and I go, "Dang it. This thing still has power over me if I'm unwilling to speak it to my friends." And I'm not saying this is the path that everyone needs to go on, but this was the path that I needed to go on for me-

    19. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:29:28

        Mm

    20. LHLewis Howes1:29:28

        ... to be free, to set myself free. And so I started telling friends one by one, kind of sh- the same type of setup, and they were all very accepting and loving and supportive, which I was like, huh. Male friends, female friends, all of it. Then I said, "Well, they're my friends. They have to accept and love me. But my audience?"

    21. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:29:47

        Yeah.

    22. LHLewis Howes1:29:47

        "Oh, man. They're gonna unfollow me. They're gonna stop listening. They're gonna unsubscribe. No one's gonna buy anything. I'm gonna be poor and broke for the rest of my life." That fear had power and consumed me. And so maybe six or nine months went by and I was just like... I almost felt like at this point it was a duty and a responsibility, and I almost feel like because of my experiences-

    23. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:30:08

        Mm

    24. LHLewis Howes1:30:09

        ... because I was a, you know, a big former male, you know, white jock-

    25. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:30:14

        Mm

    26. LHLewis Howes1:30:15

        ... that you wouldn't expect this. I never saw anyone that looked like me in sports growing up on TV talk about this. Um, and maybe if I did, maybe I would've been able to tell my parents. Maybe I would've been able to be- feel accepted. Maybe I would've been able to heal better. Maybe I wouldn't have beat myself up every single day that I was a loser and I was worthless. Maybe I would've had more peace in my life. So it became, it became this kind of nagging thing that was more of like a, a ca- like I felt called-

    27. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:30:45

        Yeah

    28. LHLewis Howes1:30:45

        ... to do something publicly. And again, I'm not saying everyone needs to, like, share their stuff publicly. I don't think that's the right thing to do or necessary, but it more felt like, oh, Lewis, this is part of your path.

    29. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:30:57

        Yeah.

    30. LHLewis Howes1:30:57

        This is part of your mission. And because it happened, and because of your sports experiences and business experience, this is gonna open the doors for certain people who have experienced that.
14. 1:34:47 – 1:46:51

    Forgiveness, integration, and practical next steps: retreats, therapy, and deep work

    1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:34:47

       Does the story still have any power over you?

    2. LHLewis Howes1:34:53

       I don't feel like it does, to be honest. I feel really at peace about it. And I, if someone wants to ask me about it at any time, I can speak about it without sadness, without... I have compassion and sadness for my five-year-old self, but I've done so much integrating work consistently to heal-

    3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:35:12

       Mm-hmm

    4. LHLewis Howes1:35:13

       ... and, and bring that, quote unquote, little Lewis, five-year-old me psychologically-

    5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:35:19

       Yeah

    6. LHLewis Howes1:35:19

       ... emotionally, spiritually, into my adult self, into my current heart, and say, "I've got you. You're safe. Thank you for overcoming and getting us here. Thank you for having the courage to deal with all this stuff that you had no clue what was going on. I'm so proud of you. You're, you're courageous." You know, it's kind of like having a, a conversation with that version-

    7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:35:46

       Yeah

    8. LHLewis Howes1:35:46

       ... of myself that I wish someone would have told me at that time when I was so confused. But I didn't tell anyone, so no one knew.

    9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:35:52

       Yeah.

    10. LHLewis Howes1:35:52

        And so it's me facing the past, which we must own our past if we wanna have a powerful future. Otherwise, the past will, we will carry that past and that pain and those old stories that don't work for us. We will carry that-

    11. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:36:08

        Yeah

    12. LHLewis Howes1:36:08

        ... into the future, and it will only stay with us. That pain will stay with us unless we face it, we turn around, we look at ourselves, and we have a conversation with self. We address it. We process it. Whatever healing modality or therapy you wanna do, do it and then go all in-

    13. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:36:26

        Yeah

    14. LHLewis Howes1:36:26

        ... on that process. And this is not an overnight thing. This is not, "Let me just do a couple sessions and I'm good." This is a, a lifelong journey of healing.

    15. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:36:35

        Mm-hmm.

    16. LHLewis Howes1:36:35

        And the longer you do it and the more intentional you are, the easier it becomes.

    17. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:36:39

        Yeah.

    18. LHLewis Howes1:36:40

        So I don't feel... Like, I can speak about it at any time like I'm having, you know, a, a cup of coffee with a friend, you know, talking about almost anything. Now, it doesn't mean it wasn't a challenge, but it doesn't have m- the meaning that it used to have. It doesn't have the emotional trigger it used to have because I faced it and I've been healing it.

    19. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:37:04

        You mentioned earlier on in the conversation that you had a troubled relationship with forgiveness, forgiveness to-

    20. LHLewis Howes1:37:09

        Mm-hmm

    21. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:37:09

        ... yourself, forgiveness to the perpetrator.

    22. LHLewis Howes1:37:13

        Yep.

    23. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:37:14

        How do you feel today? How is your relationship to forgiveness sitting right now?

    24. LHLewis Howes1:37:21

        Yeah. I feel, I f- I forgave... Here's the thing. I don't know where this man is. I was, I was at a babysitter's after school.And it was the babysitter's son, so he was probably, like, 16 or 17, and I saw him a few times after that, but it was only a one-time experience. And I don't, I don't know where he is. Um, I could probably go find if I needed to, but I don't have the desire to. So I've forgiven him emotionally, mentally, spiritually to myself, uh, in the world, so say, and I don't feel like I need to face him or do something like that because I just don't think it's useful. Um, so I had to learn how to forgive him, you know. And he could be dead for all I know. But I had to learn how-

    25. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:38:12

        Mm

    26. LHLewis Howes1:38:12

        ... to forgive him, and sometimes there's people that hurt us that are dead, and we still don't forgive them, and we can't face them. So we have to learn how to mentally, emotionally, spiritually forgive people that have hurt us-

    27. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:38:23

        Mm

    28. LHLewis Howes1:38:23

        ... in the past. Even if we did, you know, even if they're a parent or something like that and we did love them but they, they treated us poorly-

    29. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:38:30

        Yeah

    30. LHLewis Howes1:38:30

        ... or they did bad things to us, I think it's important to learn how to forgive. It doesn't mean you have to like the person, but forgive them so you don't feel the pain and the poison in yourself. And it... But I think that's the, the person that I needed to forgive the most was myself because then once I forgave him, I, I realized, oh, for 25 years I beat myself up with shame and essentially abused myself emotionally, mentally. Like, I allowed this story, this experience to define a part of me, and then find other examples that confirmed that I was abused, that I was taken advantage of. I'd just find other examples of it and confirm, oh, I'm not lovable, this, I'm an idiot, I'm stupid, I, you know, all this stuff. And so I had to forgive myself-

Episode duration: 1:46:52