"You Feel Empty… Because This Still Owns You!” - BREAK FREE To Find Joy, Purpose & Meaning

1. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee0:00

   When I watch you online, when I listen to your podcasts-

2. LHLewis Howes0:05

   [laughs]

3. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee0:05

   ... one of the most endearing things is that you believe that every single person has the ability to achieve their dreams. Is that realistic?

4. LHLewis Howes0:17

   Mm-hmm. Yeah, if they believe they are worthy and deserving of achieving it, and if they're willing to do what it takes. So I believe it's possible, but that needs to happen within each person. And so I see people as a masterpiece, and usually they don't see that in themselves. And I, I learned to see that in others because I struggled with the same problem for many years. I've... I was very insecure, very unsure of myself, uncertain, didn't have peace in my heart, felt unsafe in the world, and just was, like, confused of who I am. And I think a lot of us experience that at different times. And it's been a lifelong journey of, of kind of overcoming insecurity, self-doubt, and learning to believe in all the parts of me, even the parts of me that I'm the most ashamed of or the most afraid of or have pain around. And so learning to accept those things within me, accepting my past and being at peace with it, um, not saying I have to like all these things that have happened in the past, but accepting it and being at peace with it gives me permission to pursue things with a whole heart.

5. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:24

   Now, some people may look at you, Lewis, and go, "Hey, I get it for you," right? You are a successful sportsman. You host one of the most listened to podcasts on the planet. You're successful, right? What has your success got to do with me and my life? I've got struggles. I've got insecurities.

6. LHLewis Howes1:44

   Mm-hmm.

7. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee1:44

   I've got fears. Why is your story relevant for that person?

8. LHLewis Howes1:50

   Hmm. I just think I can relate to a lot of people who struggle, um, because I struggled so much. I mean, I, I grew up, you know, in a, in a household when I, when I was eight, my brother went away to prison for four and a half years. And so growing up in a small town, um, the... I just didn't know anyone who went to prison and, and here my brother went to prison. And so I wasn't allowed to have friends for four and a half years, and I went to go visit a, a, a prison visiting room, uh, on the weekends with my family for four and a half years. So it was very confusing, sad, challenging time. When I was five, you know, I, I experienced... I've talked about this many times, but I experienced sexual abuse when I was five. It's one of my first memories as a human being, was being sexually abused by a man that I didn't know. And, and so that was confusing, scary, you know, uncertain. I felt abused. I felt taken advantage of, all these different things. And then I was also just in the bottom of my class in school. So I was always in the bottom four. They used to rank us in our grade cards. I don't know if they did this in the UK, but they would, every semester you'd get a, your grade card, and then they'd tell you what ranking you are with all your classmates. So I was always in the bottom four, in the special needs classes, and just struggled in school. So I just felt very insecure, like I had no value, no worth in school, and I thought I was dumb my entire life. And, um, the one thing that I did have ability in, that I trained myself for, that I dedicated my life to, was sports. Because I wasn't good in school, I said, "I'm gonna take all this aggression and energy a- after school into the sports field and the sports courts and, um, to pursue a dream." And I did pretty well, and I got to the professional level in professional football in America, but I got injured in my rookie season. I broke my wrist and was in a cast for six months. So my identity, you know, I don't have my dream anymore. I don't have the thing that I'm skilled at anymore to do to have value to my life. And at that time, it was 2008, 2009, when the economy was crashing in the US, and I didn't have a college degree yet. I had left early to go play f- uh, football. And so for a year and a half, I'm on my sister's couch with no money, credit card debt, no job, no opportunities, trying to figure out, you know, what am I gonna do now? And so I can... I feel like I can understand the feeling of being stuck, the feeling of being lonely, which is what I felt for a long time, the feeling of not being good enough, not, you know, being afraid that you don't have the skills necessary to, uh, make money or to get a job or to start something. I didn't have the confidence in myself for many years after that happened, and it took me going on a journey of really saying, "Okay, uh, these things that make me feel powerless, these fears, these insecurities, these doubts that make me feel powerless, they need to become my mission. They need to become the journey that I go on." And so I started... I literally, around 23 years old, created a fear list when I was sleeping on my sister's couch. I wrote down all the things that made me feel the most insecure, the most worthless, and the things that I was afraid to do. Um, and public speaking was one of them. Learning the salsa dance was another one. I'm happy to tell that story why that. Uh, singing in public, um, you know, starting a business, all these things, writing a book. These things were all scary 'cause I didn't think I could do them, and I didn't think I had the skills or the experience or the wisdom to be able to do them. And I just said, "One by one, I'm gonna go all in and train like an athlete in these fears and insecurities until these fears no longer consume or control me from taking action, from having courage." And by doing that, one by one, on that fear list, it, it allowed me to start feeling this incredible confidence in myself because I was doing the things that were so scary to me, and I was getting pretty good at them. It wasn't like I-

9. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee5:42

   Mm

10. LHLewis Howes5:42

    ... you know, just did it so I wasn't afraid anymore. I actually became great at public speaking to where I get paid a lot of money now, where I could not speak in front of three people without stuttering and stumbling 15 years ago. But by practicing every week, humiliating myself for many, many months until I learned how to fumble my way into it, I started to get better.

11. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee6:03

    Yeah.

12. LHLewis Howes6:03

    Same thing with salsa dancing. You know, I, I could not dance to save my life. I don't know about you, Rangan, but for me as a, you know, a white boy from the Midwest, salsa dancing is not in our vocabulary or in our culture. It wasn't something we did, salsa dancing. Um, and I looked-... completely out of place when I would s- enter a dance floor with a bunch of Latinos and Spanish-speaking music, and people speaking Spanish everywhere. I'm like, "Ah, what is going on?" But that uncomfortableness, that insecurity, that fear that I don't fit in, I don't belong, I, I'm not accepted here, I don't- I'm not supposed to be here. That, taking on that action, and humiliating myself for many months. Again, I'm not good right away. Humiliating myself and, and feeling out of place, but overcoming it after six months, and then learning how to really actually be pretty, be pretty decent, and decent enough to be able to dance with top people around the world over the last 15 years, has given me incredible confidence and belief in myself. So for people that are doubting themselves or feel like they're stuck, or they're not sure where they're, they're heading, or they feel like, "Oh, I'm just not getting a break or an opportunity," I felt that way for a long time, because a year and a half, that happened to me. I was stuck on the couch, no money. Didn't feel like any opportunities were falling my way, and that's why I had to go make the opportunities.

13. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee7:26

    Yeah.

14. LHLewis Howes7:26

    By writing down my fears and insecurities, and going all in on them.

15. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee7:29

    Yeah, it's really, really powerful. There's so much there, Lewis, isn't there? There's, you know, you leaning into your fear of public speaking, leaning into your fear of salsa dancing, the imposter syndrome. I mean, these are universal experiences. You've experienced them. I've experienced them. Pretty much everyone listening or watching this show right now has or is currently experiencing them. Yet from the outside at least, Lewis, you seem to have beautifully overcome them to really make a success of your life. You definitely come across as someone who feels very calm and content, and at peace with themselves, which is very magnetic when you see someone like that a- and hear someone like that speak. But no one would blame you, Lewis-

16. LHLewis Howes8:17

    Hmm

17. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee8:18

    ... if you hadn't got here. You've shared, I know, about the sexual abuse you-

18. LHLewis Howes8:23

    Mm-hmm

19. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee8:23

    ... experienced when you were five years old, and I don't claim at all to know what that must feel like to go through that, to have that imprinted within your body-

20. LHLewis Howes8:37

    Mm-hmm

21. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee8:37

    ... within your mind for so many years. The shame, the secrecy. I know you've spoken about that. I think we should unpack some of it here, 'cause I think it's very, very relevant.

22. LHLewis Howes8:46

    Sure.

23. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee8:46

    But nobody would've blamed you, Lewis, if you hadn't made something of your life. And-

24. LHLewis Howes8:52

    Mm-hmm

25. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee8:52

    ... you know, you'd struggled and said, "Yeah, this happened to me." Yet you've made a conscious decision to not let that hold you back, haven't you?

26. LHLewis Howes9:02

    100%. I mean, I, I didn't want anything to hold me back, but things were holding me back for a long time. You know, in the beginning-

27. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee9:10

    Mm

28. LHLewis Howes9:10

    ... that pain, and that shame, and that anger and resentment, and that feeling of not f- being enough, not being worthy enough, it drove me to achieve success in sports, and then eventually in business. It drove me. It was the fuel that said, "I'm gonna prove people wrong. I'm going to, uh, you know, get back at all the doubters, anyone that criticized me. I'm gonna show them, and I'm also gonna get so, you know, successful that no one can mess with me." It's essentially a defense mechanism to protect ourselves.

29. RCDr. Rangan Chatterjee9:43

    Mm-hmm.

30. LHLewis Howes9:43

    When something like abuse or abandonment or any type of big trauma, little trauma happens, we have different defense mechanisms. We wear masks. Some of those masks drive us to be effective, efficient, or workaholics. And other times, it, it makes us shut down or makes us shrink. It makes us, uh, overeat. It makes us overindulge, uh, or get new addictions to cope, to deal with the pain and numb the pain of, "I'm not enough. I'm not lovable. I'm not accepted. I'll never be good enough." This feeling that can be crippling, and I had kinda both of them. I had, you know, things that made me feel like I'm shrinking to numb the pain, and other things that drove me to be more successful. And every time I would accomplish success in sports or business, I remember never feeling good enough still. I ne-

Episode duration: 1:46:52