Re:Thinking with Adam GrantCreative anxiety, self-doubt, and procrastination with Fredrik Backman | ReThinking
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 1:12
Success doesn’t cure self-doubt: “I still don’t know if I want to be a writer”
Fredrik Backman opens by admitting that even after major commercial success, he still questions whether he should keep writing. Adam Grant frames the conversation through Scandinavian humility and the paradox of acclaim alongside insecurity.
- •Backman considers quitting after finishing "My Friends"
- •Public success doesn’t translate into internal certainty
- •Set-up of the central themes: anxiety, confidence, and identity
- 1:12 – 2:20
The “free fall” of every new book: expectations, darkness, and recurring career panic
Backman describes a predictable pattern: each book begins with anxiety and eventually hits a period of deep darkness where he’s convinced his career is over. Expectations—especially from others—make the process harder, not easier.
- •Backman handles “no expectations” better than high expectations
- •Each new book feels like starting from zero
- •A recurring multi-week crash of doubt happens at least once per book
- •He wants to fix it but can’t—so far it’s part of the cycle
- 2:20 – 3:11
Why keep writing if it hurts? Identity, retirement, and being ready to walk away
Adam presses on why Backman continues despite suffering. Backman explains that writing is tied to identity—without it he doesn’t know who he is—yet he also reports feeling happiest when he briefly retired after "My Friends."
- •Writing as identity: “If I’m not a writer, I don’t know who I am”
- •A real retirement period brought noticeable calm and happiness
- •He remains “ready to leave it,” even while submitting new work
- •Ambivalence about the writer label persists
- 3:11 – 4:46
From forklift driver to novelist: discovering storytelling as an obsession and escape
Backman traces his path from dropping out of university and working as a forklift driver to freelancing and eventually publishing a first novel. He describes storytelling as his deepest obsession and a lifelong refuge from social awkwardness and reality.
- •Nonlinear career path: warehouse work → magazines → freelancing → first novel
- •Storytelling as the only enduring obsession besides family
- •Books (and sports) as escape from loneliness and awkwardness
- •Preference for stories over “reality” as a core trait
- 4:46 – 6:25
Stage fright and the “life raft” script: panic-fueled public speaking
Grant praises Backman’s celebrated speech, and Backman reveals it was driven by panic and strict scripting. He recounts being shocked by the scale of the event (Seinfeld, Judy Blume) and needing paper notes like a survival tool.
- •Wife “undersold” the event; the venue and audience were intimidating
- •Physical symptoms of panic right before going on stage
- •Speech was fully written, not improvised
- •Paper notes functioned as psychological safety (“life raft”)
- 6:25 – 8:17
Creative anxiety as fuel: chaos → book, and learning to befriend the fear
Backman explains his constant creative anxiety and how hard he works, regardless of critics. He describes the writing process as repeated chaos that mysteriously becomes a finished book, and reframes anxiety as the force behind relentless revision and growth.
- •Perfectionist effort: “I gave it all I had” even if it’s disliked
- •Process pattern: “chaos, chaos, chaos… book”
- •Acceptance that confidence may never arrive
- •Anxiety drives editing, questioning, and evolution
- 8:17 – 12:04
Procrastination as productive thinking: routines for incubation and not quitting
They explore procrastination as an overlooked part of creativity. Backman shares tactics for staying productive while avoiding drafting, and emphasizes his “thinking routine” (driving, walking) as the real engine of writing.
- •Procrastination reframed: editing/research/reading as progress
- •A daily thinking routine replaces a strict writing routine
- •Grant’s research: moderate procrastination boosts creativity via incubation
- •Backman’s reframe: procrastinating means you haven’t given up
- 12:04 – 14:54
Effort over outcome: shrinking the world to what’s in front of you
Backman describes a coping strategy: measure yourself by effort, not results, and keep your focus small and immediate. He avoids praise because it intensifies fear that he can’t replicate success next time.
- •“Value effort, not outcome” as an anxiety-management tool
- •Grant adds: effort daily, outcomes over longer horizons
- •Backman avoids external feedback while creating to reduce pressure
- •Praise triggers catastrophic forecasting about future work
- 14:54 – 16:16
Defensive pessimism, therapy insights, and the cost of making anxiety your job
Grant labels Backman’s mindset as defensive pessimism, and Backman reflects on therapy that revealed a paradox: the inner pain that should be treated is also central to what makes his books resonate. He acknowledges the need to work on it even if it feels tied to livelihood.
- •Defensive pessimism: expecting the worst to harness motivation
- •Therapist insight: creative strength comes from painful internal material
- •Using anxiety as both engine and defense mechanism
- •Change is possible but slow and demanding
- 16:16 – 19:00
Autobiography in “My Friends”: self-dislike, abandonment fears, and self-compassion for others
Grant reads lines from "My Friends" that reveal themes of beauty, self-worth, and abandonment, and Backman confirms their autobiographical roots. He shares a turning point: self-compassion isn’t indulgent—it’s necessary to be a better husband and father.
- •Backman confirms deeply autobiographical content in "My Friends"
- •Struggle with self-dislike and its impact on relationships
- •Reframing self-work as responsibility to loved ones
- •Grant reframes self-compassion as benefiting the people around you
- 19:00 – 23:53
From “be happy” to “be okay”: making peace with yourself and reducing rumination
Backman describes depression as disconnection from the self and shifts toward “coexistence” with himself rather than chasing an ideal self. A therapist challenges the goal of happiness, suggesting instead aiming to be “okay,” which Backman adopts as a stabilizing daily question.
- •Depression as feeling detached from one’s identity/body
- •Goal shift: not happiness, but being okay and functional
- •Rumination can both result from and contribute to depression (Grant adds research)
- •Happiness goals can backfire; relationships anchor well-being
- 23:53 – 25:29
Fighting self-absorption: narcissistic tendencies, “hubris or abyss,” and becoming better
Backman candidly names narcissistic tendencies and the danger of a solitary creative profession amplifying self-focus. He frames personal growth as essential work: resisting selfishness, staying aware, and continuing to improve without collapsing into shame.
- •Self-diagnosis: narcissistic tendencies plus anxiety create extremes
- •Solitary writing can intensify unhealthy self-focus
- •Humility can coexist with narcissism when it’s identified and resisted
- •Commitment to continuous improvement as a moral practice
- 25:29 – 28:15
Identity as “all my tomorrows”: parenting repair, effort language, and being seen trying
Backman draws on "Anxious People" to argue identity isn’t only past mistakes but future possibility. He shares a family practice of acknowledging effort—“I see that you’re trying”—as a way to maintain love through conflict and imperfection.
- •Quote/theme: we are more than what we’ve done; we are what we’ll do
- •“Still here” as the core marker of perseverance
- •Proudest successes are relational: marriage durability and kids’ connection
- •Family technique: mutual recognition of effort to de-escalate conflict
- 28:15 – 31:00
Lightning round and scheduled grief: Lego typewriter ritual to contain loss
In the lightning round, Backman rejects rigid writing rules, defends video games for kids, and shares a recent lesson from bereavement. He describes “scheduling grief” by building a gifted Lego typewriter nightly, creating a contained space to mourn and remember.
- •Worst advice: absolute rules like “never do this” in writing
- •Unpopular opinion: video games are broadly beneficial (with caveats)
- •Scheduled grief as an emotional regulation strategy
- •Lego typewriter becomes a nightly memorial and coping ritual
- 31:00 – 35:36
Office Hours: defining happiness, meaning over success, and being seen accurately
Backman asks Grant, “What is happiness?” Grant emphasizes balancing self-acceptance with self-improvement and prioritizing meaning over peak happiness. They discuss success as responsibility (including opening doors for others), and Grant closes by praising Backman’s unusual commitment to being seen accurately rather than positively.
- •Happiness as self-acceptance + self-improvement; “better present self without hating past self”
- •Meaning can matter more than happiness during demanding seasons
- •Success as responsibility and service: opening doors for others
- •Backman’s communication style: self-verification over self-enhancement
