Re:Thinking with Adam GrantDavid Beckham on pressure, competition, and redemption | ReThinking
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
25 min read · 5,250 words- 0:00 – 0:24
Thriving under pressure: performing bigger on the biggest stages
- DBDavid Beckham
For my motivation, you know, there's nothing better than playing in front of 100,000 fans. You know, I'd much rather do that than play in front of 10 people, you know? And that's what, that's what I miss about the game.
- AGAdam Grant
It almost sounds like you miss the pressure.
- DBDavid Beckham
It's a strange thing. You know, the, the, the more the pressure, the better I seem to perform. [upbeat music]
- 0:24 – 1:47
Punctuality, image, and the fear of being perceived as disrespectful
- AGAdam Grant
You beat me here.
- DBDavid Beckham
I did.
- AGAdam Grant
Why?
- DBDavid Beckham
I-
- AGAdam Grant
I came so early. I was 20 minutes early.
- DBDavid Beckham
Well, I'm, I'm not always just on time. I'm before that. Uh, and my wife kind of picks at it all the time, in all honesty. She's always saying, "We're gonna be too early. We're gonna be too early." But I got brought up by parents that always made sure that we were on time. I got, you know, brought up when I was in Manchester United by an incredible coach that always made sure that we're not just on time, but 20 minutes before time. So I'm sorry I got here before you, but not sorry.
- AGAdam Grant
I, I can't believe it because I am always late.
- DBDavid Beckham
[laughs]
- AGAdam Grant
And I made sure to not be late this morning, and I still couldn't get here ahead of you.
- DBDavid Beckham
Well, you definitely wasn't late. I was just really early, so I apologize.
- AGAdam Grant
I'm rejecting your apology.
- DBDavid Beckham
[laughs]
- AGAdam Grant
What, what happens if you're on time or late? Does it bother you?
- DBDavid Beckham
Um, I am very aggravated if I'm late. Um, it upsets me. I worry about what people think about me if I turn up late, so that's why I'm always very early.
- AGAdam Grant
Aren't you past being judged now?
- DBDavid Beckham
[laughs] Um-
- AGAdam Grant
At, at what point in your career do you stop-
- DBDavid Beckham
To be honest-
- AGAdam Grant
... caring about image?
- DBDavid Beckham
I don't mind being judged. I just, I, I, I just hate being late. It's one of my pet peeves that I just really don't like. Um, so I'm always on time for everything, whether it's Sunday lunches, whether it's a drink with friends, whether it's school runs, I'm always on time.
- AGAdam Grant
We are not gonna get along, then.
- DBDavid Beckham
[laughs]
- 1:47 – 2:38
Sport as a unifier ahead of 2026: communities, passion, and shared ritual
- AGAdam Grant
So David, I wanna, I wanna talk about sport. We have the World Cup, uh, on the horizon.
- DBDavid Beckham
Mm.
- AGAdam Grant
And I think it's, you know, it's, it's something that really has the potential to bring the world together-
- DBDavid Beckham
Mm
- AGAdam Grant
... in our divided times. Can you talk to me a little bit about the power of sport in general, and football in particular, in 2026?
- DBDavid Beckham
Well, I think sport has always had the power to unite, you know, people, children, communities, villages, you know? And that's what, that's what sport does. Not just soccer, football, um, that's what sport does in general. So I think that this is a real opportunity again. You know, we see it every four years. Every time a World Cup comes around, you know, uh, cities change, countries change, people change. People have the opportunity to go and have fun. They're passionate about it. And I think that this is a real opportunity again, you know, for, for, for sport to prove that.
- 2:38 – 4:11
Rivalry without hatred: how competition can still create unity
- AGAdam Grant
I hope so. I was surprised going into the Paris Olympics, I, I read a bunch of research showing that we think the Olympics are gonna bring people together, and they actually tend to divide countries.
- DBDavid Beckham
Mm.
- AGAdam Grant
Uh, people love their own nation more, but they also start to hate their rival nations [laughs] a little bit more. Um, that seems like a, a lost opportunity. What's your take on how to prevent that from happening?
- DBDavid Beckham
No, I think there's always gonna be rival, rivalry in sport. I think it divides people, but in a way that brings people together. You know, I think that you have a stadium full of 80,000 fans, 40,000 are for one country, 40,000 are for the other country. Yes, there will be rivalry because one set of fans want their team to win, and the other set of fans want their team to win, so there's always gonna be that rivalry. I think it's a good thing. You know, we always talk about, you know, moments of, you know, people disagreeing, you know? And, and this is a moment where fans disagree, but then they're coming together in a stadium where they're celebrating. You know, I saw this in the last World Cup, you know, fans coming together, and I think that that's such an important part of sport, and that's why I always talk about sport being such a, um, a, a kind of, a, a... brings a, a real unity. Um, and soccer is, is, is that moment, you know? Soccer is, it's gonna be viewed by almost four, four and a half, five billion people, and, you know, when you talk about the magnitude of that, you know, and, and what that does to communities and what that does to people, you know, that's, that's, that's the biggest thing that, that, that people want these days.
- 4:11 – 5:22
‘Football’ vs ‘soccer’ and the role of fans in motivation
- AGAdam Grant
Did you just call football soccer?
- DBDavid Beckham
I, I think I might have said it a couple of times, so-
- AGAdam Grant
Is that a verbal tic?
- DBDavid Beckham
What-
- AGAdam Grant
What's happening here?
- DBDavid Beckham
You know what? It was always football to me until I moved to America, and then I had to adjust. Um, I had to adjust. But I still obviously know that it is football.
- AGAdam Grant
So what role did fans play in your motivation throughout your career?
- DBDavid Beckham
Um, they played a big motivation. Obviously, you know, to have fans in the stadium. It's what we realized through, through lockdown, you know, when you had two teams playing against each other with an empty stadium, you know, it felt soulless. You know, you have, uh, all different fans, I think more so in America than anywhere in the world. You know, when I moved to America and played in LA in 2007, I noticed that there was young kids, you know, people that were 20 years old, people that were 40 years old, people that were 80 years old, you know, all turning up as a family to go and watch their team play. For my motivation, I miss the entertainment side. I miss walking out onto that pitch, you know, and, and performing. Um, and people turn round to me all the time and say, you know, "What do you miss about the game?" I miss everything about it.
- 5:22 – 5:46
1998 backlash and pressure: rebuilding after the red card
- AGAdam Grant
It almost sounds like you miss the pressure.
- DBDavid Beckham
I love the pressure. I went through a, a stage where in 1998 where I'd been sent off, and I was kind of getting a little bit of abuse from, from, from fans, from media, from people. But in all honesty, the thing that I knew what to do best is to put my head down to work as hard as I can, and then results would come and, and thankfully they did.
- 5:46 – 7:12
Nature vs nurture in handling pressure—and why experience isn’t the whole story
- AGAdam Grant
There's a big nature/nurture debate when it comes to handling performance pressures.
- DBDavid Beckham
Mm.
- AGAdam Grant
I think a lot of people believe you're just born with that ability or not.
- DBDavid Beckham
Yeah.
- AGAdam Grant
There's... I'm thinking though, there's some classic research-
- DBDavid Beckham
Mm
- AGAdam Grant
... in psychology showing that how you respond to pressure depends on your skill level.
- DBDavid Beckham
Mm.
- AGAdam Grant
Where basically what happens is when you're under stress, that increases the probability of your dominant instinctive response.
- DBDavid Beckham
Okay.
- AGAdam Grant
And if you're not good at the task or the game, then your dominant response is to screw up.
- DBDavid Beckham
Yeah.
- AGAdam Grant
But if you're an expert or if you're highly practiced, your dominant response, the autopilot, is actually excellent.
- DBDavid Beckham
Okay.
- AGAdam Grant
And so I think what that, what that research at least would suggest is that over time you get better at handling pressure as your skill level improves.
- DBDavid Beckham
Yeah.
- AGAdam Grant
Agree or disagree?
- DBDavid Beckham
I don't know. I was quite young when I first went through all of this. You know, I was 21 years old. Um, so that's pretty young. I never really questioned that I was good enough, but obviously doubts come into your mind at times, and you wonder if you can get through certain situations, um, with the pressure that was, you know, mounting on me at the time. I relied on my wife, my family, my parents, my friends, and that's really... And my teammates. That's what I relied on to get me through the moments where I was doubting myself. So I agree but also disagree because, like, I'd never been through anything like that before.
- AGAdam Grant
What was the moment it peaked out? When did you feel it most intensely?
- DBDavid Beckham
I think I had that feeling, the intense feeling, for probably four years.
- AGAdam Grant
Four years?
- DBDavid Beckham
Yeah. Yeah.
- AGAdam Grant
And how old were you?
- DBDavid Beckham
21.
- 7:12 – 10:02
The Argentina incident: ‘red mist,’ split-second emotion, and lasting consequences
- AGAdam Grant
Jeez. So you alluded to, I think, the red card in 1998.
- DBDavid Beckham
Yeah.
- AGAdam Grant
Uh, World Cup loss. Um, set the scene a little bit for us on that.
- DBDavid Beckham
Mm. Mm.
- AGAdam Grant
Um, what, what happened? What did it feel like? How did you deal with it?
- DBDavid Beckham
Okay. I went into the World Cup in 1998, and I'd played every game on the lead up to the World Cup. I go into the World Cup. The coach at the time didn't think that my head space was right, so he dropped me for the first game, for the second game. And we won the first game. We were losing the second game. And then the third game was against Colombia, which was actually on my mum's birthday. And I remember going into this game really happy because, you know, I was back in the team. I scored a goal on my mum's birthday. My first goal for, for England in a World Cup, um, was on my mum's birthday. I had, had a, a really good game. We won the game. We then progressed onto the next stage. So the next game was against Argentina. Obviously, we talked about rivals earlier. There's, there's not many bigger rivals than England-Argentina, for many reasons. But that moment, I go into the game, we were in good form. Um, we were winning 1-0, and then Argentina got a goal back. And towards the end of the first half, there was a play- a player called Diego Simeone, and he was always one of these players that kind of... You know, he was one of those players on the field that kind of aggravated, you know, the situations. So he was that player, and he came r- right into the back of me, fell on top of me, and then he kind of brushed my head like that. And I felt that, and I kind of just flicked my leg up, kind of, and, and, and kicked him. Should never have done it. It was a mistake. It was one of the mistakes where I wish that I'd never done it. But I look back and I think everything happens for a reason. But that was what happened. So I got the red card, and then after that, you know, I got probably three or four years of, of abuse. But that, but that fourth year, I then became England captain. You know, I could never have dreamed of captaining my country. My dream was always to play for my country. You know, I never saw myself as a leader. I never saw myself as a captain, you know, at that time. But then I got that armband, and I had to turn into a leader overnight.
- AGAdam Grant
I wanna talk about that, too. Before we go there, I, I think what you're describing is a basic emotion regulation challenge, right?
- DBDavid Beckham
Yeah.
- AGAdam Grant
That, like, that, that moment-
- DBDavid Beckham
Yeah
- AGAdam Grant
... you're, you're probably not using your best-
- DBDavid Beckham
Yeah
- AGAdam Grant
... higher, higher level reasoning.
- DBDavid Beckham
So I suppose, you know, the red mist. They called it the red mist. They always said that I had red mist, and, and the red mist came, and unfortunately, it was on the biggest stage that you can have as a footballer. But unfortunately, or fortunately, it shaped me as a player and as a person.
- 10:02 – 12:20
Can you train emotional control? Beckham’s ‘no script’ approach and learning the hard way
- AGAdam Grant
When I teach leaders and students to manage that red mist-
- DBDavid Beckham
Mm
- AGAdam Grant
... um, I actually, I use football as an example. Uh, I, I like the Zidane headbutt moment.
- DBDavid Beckham
Yeah.
- AGAdam Grant
Uh, 'cause it, it's just so extreme.
- DBDavid Beckham
Yeah.
- AGAdam Grant
But my, my typical advice there is to recognize that you have some emotional triggers-
- DBDavid Beckham
Mm
- AGAdam Grant
... some buttons that can easily get pushed.
- DBDavid Beckham
Yeah.
- AGAdam Grant
Know what those are-
- DBDavid Beckham
Yeah
- AGAdam Grant
... and then build a script for what you're gonna do when somebody pushes that button.
- DBDavid Beckham
Yeah.
- AGAdam Grant
And I'm curious about whether you did anything along those lines.
- DBDavid Beckham
No. [laughs]
- AGAdam Grant
Not at all.
- DBDavid Beckham
Obviously not. I, I suppose, you know, I, at that moment in time I didn't have time for that. You know, I'd been knocked over. My frustration came out straight away. And like I said, do I wish it had never happened? Absolutely. But it happened for a reason. It happened to shape me as a person.
- AGAdam Grant
That seems like one of the few moments on a pitch that you don't train for. And I've often wondered if, would you simulate those kinds of moments in practice to, to actually give you-
- DBDavid Beckham
No. [laughs]
- AGAdam Grant
Not at all?
- DBDavid Beckham
Absolutely not.
- AGAdam Grant
Never?
- DBDavid Beckham
No, never. Never.
- AGAdam Grant
You just trusted yourself to act differently next time.
- DBDavid Beckham
Absolutely. And, and did I probably act in a way that I shouldn't have acted, you know, a few years after that? Probably. Probably, because that... I was a passionate player. You know, I was a passionate player on the field, and when things upset me, it was very clear that they upset me. But, um, I learned to control a lot of the things over the years because I had to. You know, I had to become a different person and I had to become a different player. I had to be in control as much as I can be of certain situations where I was put in because every time that I stepped out onto a field, you know, f- 98% of the stadium was booing me Because they were either England fans or rival fans. Um, because that was what it was like then. I'd let... People felt that I'd let my country down. People th- felt that I'd let my family down. And in a way, I kind of had because of what my reactions. Um, but I always think it's not about what actually happens in that moment, it's about how you react after and how you handle those moments.
- AGAdam Grant
I'm reminded of a scene in Love Actually where, uh, Hugh-
- DBDavid Beckham
I get me- I get mentioned in Love Actually.
- AGAdam Grant
You do.
- DBDavid Beckham
I do.
- 12:20 – 15:43
Redemption moment: the Greece free kick and feeling a nation forgive you
- AGAdam Grant
Was that a marker of shifting perception of in that moment or in that time period, people starting to come around and support you more?
- DBDavid Beckham
Um, no. I think the, the, the marker of having more support and people coming around at the time was three years after that. So there was a game against Greece, uh, at Old Trafford, where Manchester United play. That was my team that I played for at the time. And, uh, we went into this game, and we only needed to draw the game. So a draw was perfectly okay. The sun was shining. It was the perfect day. We go into this game, only need a draw, and we played terrible. But I was playing really well. It was one of the, one of the best games that I'd... And I never say this about myself as a, as a, as a player. It's probably one of the best games that I've played in, in football. And, um, we go one-nil down. We then get a goal back, uh, which w- was one of my assists to Teddy Sheringham. They, Greece then go up the other end, and they score a goal. There's three minutes left in the game. I've taken about eight free kicks so far, seven free kicks so far, and all missed. And then I get one more free kick at the end of the game with three minutes to go, and, um, I score. And that goal took England through to the World Cup finals, and that was the moment where everything changed for me. That was the moment where I think people... I mean, I always get emotional talking about it because it's the moment where I realized people forgave me.
- AGAdam Grant
Mm-hmm.
- DBDavid Beckham
Um, and that, that was... You know, my mom and dad were sat in the director's box at Old Trafford, and they said they've never seen a reaction from people after I scored that goal. You know, people were crying. You know, young kids, you know, grandmas and grandpas, you know, they were, they were crying. They just burst out crying because the, the raw emotion. And that's what I'm saying about football as a game. You know, it unites people like, like no other sport in my opinion.
- AGAdam Grant
Yeah. So did you feel in the years before that, like, you had to earn a whole nation's forgiveness?
- DBDavid Beckham
Yes.
- AGAdam Grant
Wow.
- DBDavid Beckham
Yes.
- AGAdam Grant
And how did you deal with that pressure? 'Cause that's a different kind of weight to carry.
- DBDavid Beckham
Um, I, I actually don't know. I don't know how I dealt with it. I just did what I know best, which is to work hard and put my head down and, and, and stay, and stay quiet. You know, Sir Alex Ferguson, who was my coach at the time when I got sent off in the World Cup for, uh... He was the Manchester United coach, and he was the first to call me the next morning. And he said, "David, son, how are you?" And I said, uh, "Not great, boss." And he said, uh, "Don't worry. Go away for a couple of weeks. Have rest with your family. Come back, and we'll be there for you, and we'll support you." And, and really without, without Sir Alex Ferguson, without my teammates, without, um, the support of Manchester United fans... I remember every game that I played that whole season. When we played at home and we played at Old Trafford, every time I went over to take a corner kick, you know, the whole side of the stand stood up. And, and that is the reason why I got through that difficult time.
- 15:43 – 17:22
Support systems and Sir Alex Ferguson: discipline, respect, and ‘preparing for life’
- AGAdam Grant
Ferguson is regarded as one of the greatest coaches ever.
- DBDavid Beckham
Yeah.
- AGAdam Grant
Beyond the importance of hard work and just the basic support that he gave you-
- DBDavid Beckham
Mm
- AGAdam Grant
... what was your greatest lesson from him?
- DBDavid Beckham
It's hard to step away and not, not mention the hard work because that what, is what he was all about. Um, discipline, mentality, um, respect, um, and he gave us all of those things. All of those things. And he wasn't preparing us as football players. He was preparing us for life. It didn't matter who you were. It didn't matter what you'd achieved. Didn't matter where you'd come from. Everyone was treated the same. And you gained respect only by working, by working hard. I was playing in an era where, you know, therapy wasn't really a thing. I'm not saying it was frowned upon to, to, to kind of discuss it, but it... I, I grew up, you know, in a household where if, if, if I did have a disappointment, my dad would just say, "Okay, go out there and do it again," till I got it right. And I'm all for that. You know, I, I'm all for people discussing their problems and talking about their problems and trying to find a solution, but for me personally, my way was to put my head down and work harder.
- AGAdam Grant
Are you saying that if you were 21 today, you would be in therapy?
- DBDavid Beckham
Probably not.
- AGAdam Grant
[laughs]
- DBDavid Beckham
Probably not. I find it hard to believe that I would go into therapy through something like this with the upbringing that I had because there was a steeliness that my dad installed into me without even knowing that he was protecting me for the future, which he probably didn't know at the time. But as a father, you know, he supported me, but he was tough on me and, and, and that's what made me.
- 17:22 – 19:26
Silence as strategy: resisting the urge to fight back and proving critics wrong
- AGAdam Grant
What was the most helpful thing a family member said to you during those four years of self-doubt?
- DBDavid Beckham
You know what someone said to me once? The hardest thing is to say nothing. And even though I was going through what I was going through, it was, it would've been very easy to come out fighting. It would've been very easy to come out and say something and add to the, you know, the speculation or add to the conversation. But the best thing I did was I went silent. I went silent and I worked harder, and that was the right thing to do
- AGAdam Grant
... to get through that doubt? What were you hoping to achieve?
- DBDavid Beckham
I always wanna win, you know, and, and that was always on the field. I wanted to win. I wanted to show people. I wanted to, you know, the... I suppose the critics that were turning round and saying that I shouldn't be playing in the Premier League anymore, I shouldn't be playing in England, maybe I'm gonna go and play somewhere else abroad, um, my motivation was to kind of prove everyone wrong, to prove everyone that I was still the player that wanted to play for my country, that wanted to play for Manchester United, that wanted to play in England. That was my motivation. Um, and I- also, I, you know, I'm, I'm not pa- I, I'm part of a, a sport where it's a team sport. So even though I was going through difficult times, I still had to perform. I still had to go out on that pitch with all the things that were being said about me, you know, in the stands, on the media, on the TV, on the radio, on the podcasts. I still had to go out and perform. You know, we went to, on to achieve things that, that with, w- the, the first time to win a, you know, a, a treble. You know, we won the Champions League, we won the FA Cup, and we won, um, uh, the Premier League. You know, we did that, funnily enough, the year after I went through that, that, that time. So in 1998 I got the red card. In 1998/99 season we did the treble, and it was one of my best seasons as a footballer.
- AGAdam Grant
You just anticipated my next four questions.
- DBDavid Beckham
Sorry.
- AGAdam Grant
No, it's-
- 19:26 – 26:10
Competitive identity and leadership style: hating to lose, leading by example, lightning round
- DBDavid Beckham
Sorry
- AGAdam Grant
... it's good. What was the bigger motivator for you, m- loving to win or hating to lose?
- DBDavid Beckham
Oh, my goodness. Um, I really don't like to lose. I really don't like to lose, but it happens. You know, I talk to kids about it all the time. You know, when I'm sat down and kids turn round to me and say, "You've won all of these games. What is it like when you lose a game?" It's, it's one of the worst feelings in the world for me. You know, it, it's, it's depressing. Um, you wake up the next morning and you have this feeling in your stomach when you've lost a game. It means the same to me. It doesn't matter what level I'm playing at, it doesn't matter, you know, whether I'm playing in a cup game, a friendly game, a World Cup game. If I win a game, I still feel the same. If I lose a game, I still feel the same.
- AGAdam Grant
Is that true when you're playing other sports for fun?
- DBDavid Beckham
Yes.
- AGAdam Grant
If you and I were to play-
- DBDavid Beckham
Oh, yes
- AGAdam Grant
... ping pong, for example.
- DBDavid Beckham
Um, I am not good at losing ping pong. I am not good at losing basketball. I am not good at losing a game of, uh, checkers.
- AGAdam Grant
Do you ever throw the board when you lose?
- DBDavid Beckham
Oh, no. I'm not, I'm not an aggressive person when I, when I lose. Um, I'm a, I'm probably a sad person when I lose.
- AGAdam Grant
Okay, so you just get depressed.
- DBDavid Beckham
I get depressed.
- AGAdam Grant
All right. You mentioned earlier that you didn't see yourself as a leader for a long time.
- DBDavid Beckham
Mm.
- AGAdam Grant
When did that shift, and why?
- DBDavid Beckham
It shifted when I got given the armband.
- AGAdam Grant
You didn't have any sense of yourself as a leader before that?
- DBDavid Beckham
No, no.
- AGAdam Grant
Why not?
- DBDavid Beckham
No. Um, because I was brought up in an era where captains, they shouted at players. They led with, with not aggression, but they led by, by vocalizing in, in that way, and I was never that person. I'm a very quiet person. I'm quite shy. Um, and I'm not very good at shouting at people.
- AGAdam Grant
[laughs]
- DBDavid Beckham
Um, I'm really not. So to be given the captain's armband at that time, again, it was, it was a decision that was quite criticized. You know, am I ready to be captain of my country? But with that, you know, your responsibilities change. You know, you be- you have to become a leader, and I was a different leader. My way of leading was to work harder than anyone else, to turn up before everyone else, to leave after everyone else, and I always believed that that was my strongest way of leading. So I, I, I kind of grew into that moment. Um, and I'm very proud, you know? I'm very proud that I got the opportunity to captain my country for six years.
- AGAdam Grant
All right. You ready for a lightning round?
- DBDavid Beckham
Oh, my goodness. Okay.
- AGAdam Grant
We have some quick-fire questions for you.
- DBDavid Beckham
Quick-fire questions. Oh, my goodness.
- AGAdam Grant
First one is-
- DBDavid Beckham
It's very early. It's, like, 10:30, right? So it's quite early for quick-fires. [laughs]
- AGAdam Grant
Ho- how many hours have you been awake now?
Episode duration: 26:21
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