Kristen Bell on acting, therapy, and overcoming her people pleasing habit | ReThinking

1. 0:00 – 1:51

   Morale as the real job on set (and a quick character roll call)

   1. KBKristen Bell0:00

      My job is not to come in and make the strongest creative decisions. We have writers for that. We have a showrunner. The prop department people know what they're doing. My job is morale every day, all day. [upbeat music]

   2. AGAdam Grant0:16

      I had to make sure you were, you were actually coming on stage.

   3. KBKristen Bell0:19

      I was not paying attention.

   4. AGAdam Grant0:20

      [laughs]

   5. SPSpeaker0:21

      [laughs]

   6. KBKristen Bell0:21

      Nope. I was talking.

   7. AGAdam Grant0:23

      Kristen, we are so glad to have you here at Uplift. Welcome.

   8. KBKristen Bell0:25

      Thanks. Hi, guys.

   9. SPSpeaker0:30

      Hi. [cheering]

   10. AGAdam Grant0:31

       Can we just get a sense of the audience?

   11. KBKristen Bell0:33

       Thank you.

   12. AGAdam Grant0:33

       How many of you... I'm just gonna give you a few of Kristen's most iconic characters. Can, can you just cheer for the one you love most?

   13. KBKristen Bell0:38

       Ooh, a contest.

   14. SPSpeaker0:41

       [laughs]

   15. AGAdam Grant0:41

       Sarah Marshall.

   16. SPSpeaker0:42

       [cheering]

   17. KBKristen Bell0:45

       Strong start.

   18. AGAdam Grant0:46

       Okay, good. Princess Anna.

   19. SPSpeaker0:48

       [cheering]

   20. AGAdam Grant0:51

       Some of you have already cheered twice. What?

   21. SPSpeaker0:53

       [laughs]

   22. AGAdam Grant0:53

       Why? Okay, how about Eleanor from The Good Place?

   23. SPSpeaker0:57

       [cheering]

   24. KBKristen Bell0:58

       Wow.

   25. AGAdam Grant0:58

       Ooh.

   26. KBKristen Bell1:00

       Wow.

   27. AGAdam Grant1:01

       And Joanne from Nobody Wants This.

   28. SPSpeaker1:03

       [cheering]

   29. KBKristen Bell1:06

       They stood. She, there's three standers on that one.

   30. AGAdam Grant1:09

       There, there was, there-
2. 1:51 – 4:06

   From mimic kid to “banana and tree”: early performance lessons

   1. KBKristen Bell1:51

      Yeah. It was my entrance, uh, into the biz as they say. Um, I was a, a kid that was a really strong mimic. I mimicked everything. When I walked in the room and heard an announcer, I would just start to mimic it all the time. And my mom, I, wanted me to be involved in some sort of like team activity and I was a lot smaller than a lot of the other kids. And so she was like, "Huh, well, she sings a lot and she mimics a lot and she's a little bit performative so what if we did theater?" Great. Cut to I go to audition for Raggedy Ann and Andy and you had to memorize a Shel Silverstein poem. And I memorized my poem and I got there and I got out of the car and I completely broke down because I for the first time in my life felt like, oh, I, I do all this mimic stuff at home with my family, but people will be watching. And my mom took my shoulders and she said, "Listen to me. If you absolutely botch this, we, we will never speak of this again. We don't even have to drive down this street again. Okay?" And so I went in, I did it, and I got cast as a banana in the first act and a tree in the second act.

   2. SPSpeaker2:52

      [laughs] [cheering]

   3. KBKristen Bell2:54

      Obviously 'cause they knew I could handle the complexity.

   4. SPSpeaker2:57

      [laughs]

   5. KBKristen Bell2:58

      That was my first theater show.

   6. AGAdam Grant3:00

      Is there anything you learned from that that still affects you today?

   7. KBKristen Bell3:03

      Oh, yeah. That was the first time I felt the true, um, kind of energy rise of t- like teamwork where you prepare, prepare and you have this big secret with this group that you're working with and there's like this creativity flowing because there's paint and props and, and all of these like fun, uh, things involved for kids and we made a lot of the set pieces and then you have the excitement of opening night and to me it was like my, my, the first time I really felt all of that excitement 'cause to me like performing is really my chance to just be like, "Okay, I've prepared something. Come on in. Come on in." And to simply just do it to give other people joy 'cause you don't know if someone this is their favorite show. You don't know if they're gonna maybe just want some like a respite from their family and maybe they might just shut their eyes during the show which is also fine. But you get to do it for the group and you get to add something. It's like a, a beautiful dance you do with a team and I just wanted more.

3. 4:06 – 5:52

   Why she avoids “getting ready”: her pre-performance mindset

   1. AGAdam Grant4:06

      Let's talk a little bit about preparation. We have a lot of people in the room who care about high performance.

   2. KBKristen Bell4:10

      Let's go.

   3. SPSpeaker4:12

      [laughs]

   4. AGAdam Grant4:13

      What is, what is your pregame ritual? How do you get yourself into the right mindset to perform?

   5. KBKristen Bell4:18

      You caught it. You caught it back there.

   6. AGAdam Grant4:20

      Not paying attention.

   7. KBKristen Bell4:21

      Correct.

   8. SPSpeaker4:22

      [laughs]

   9. KBKristen Bell4:23

      I'm not joking. If we are... It will literally be we will be talking like, "Action. Let's go." In my opinion, you have to know what works for you. If you are to say, 'cause in the business when you're shooting they say rolling and then they snap the little clapper for the camera and then they call action. So there's about a 30-second delay and I purposefully am not paying attention to any of that. For me, I wanna be like swallowing the last grapes that I'm eating, wiping off my hands, and talking about like what I saw on The Secret Millionaire show last night as they call action because for me getting pushed off that cliff is how I do my most organic work in the scene. If I think too much, I find it's not as organic of a performance.

   10. AGAdam Grant5:15

       That's so interesting because I think I watch a lot of people who backstage will start meditating.

   11. KBKristen Bell5:20

       Oh.

   12. AGAdam Grant5:20

       And I always look at that and think you're getting into the wrong mindset. You wanna have energy on stage. You don't wanna be calm. If we're gonna talk, we should be interacting, right?

   13. KBKristen Bell5:28

       Interesting.

   14. AGAdam Grant5:30

       Is it?

   15. SPSpeaker5:31

       [laughs]

   16. KBKristen Bell5:31

       Yes. And because I find, uh, I am fueled by numerous topics at once. Oh, but what about this? Oh, but what about this? Oh, but what about this? And maybe that's my personal application of that when we're talking about like, oh my gosh, did you see they had burritos at crafty? Hello, Noah. You know what I mean?

   17. AGAdam Grant5:49

       [laughs]

4. 5:52 – 8:42

   A neuroscientist coach and the roots of chronic people-pleasing

   1. AGAdam Grant5:52

      Love it. So we're, I think we're surrounded by people who care about coaching. You have a coach. You've worked with coaches throughout your career, but you have a coach that you're obsessed with now.

   2. KBKristen Bell6:03

      Obsessed.

   3. AGAdam Grant6:03

      You-

   4. KBKristen Bell6:03

      I don't know that I'd say I've worked with coaches throughout my... unless my husband counts, 'cause I get a, I, like, ask a lot of advice, because he's always has the opposite opinion, and I like to pressure test everything. And so I found this leadership coach who is, um, a neuroscientist named Dr. Julia Gan- DiGangi, and she has a program that you can sign up for that's, like, um, 20 minutes a day in the morning, and I've been doing it since January 1, and I have become obsessed with it. And then I, uh, emailed her and had started doing private coaching as well.

   5. AGAdam Grant6:35

      Okay, so two things here. First of all, you liking experts, this should not be a novelty, but in 2026-

   6. KBKristen Bell6:41

      Yeah

   7. AGAdam Grant6:42

      ... listening to people who know stuff feels important.

   8. SPSpeaker6:46

      [laughs]

   9. AGAdam Grant6:47

      I ju- I just wanted to underscore that.

   10. KBKristen Bell6:48

       Yeah, and that's crazy, y'all.

   11. SPSpeaker6:53

       [laughs]

   12. KBKristen Bell6:53

       [laughs] I mean, what?

   13. AGAdam Grant6:55

       Okay. Secondly-

   14. SPSpeaker6:57

       [laughs]

   15. AGAdam Grant6:59

       [laughs] One of the things that you have been struggling with throughout your life, that you've been working on recently in coaching-

   16. KBKristen Bell7:04

       Hit me, Adam

   17. AGAdam Grant7:04

       ... is your chronic people pleasing.

   18. KBKristen Bell7:09

       She was like, "Ooh."

   19. SPSpeaker7:10

       [laughs]

   20. KBKristen Bell7:11

       [laughs] Yes, yes. I am, uh, uh, hypervigilant about people having a good experience on planet Earth, because that's what I want, and I like to be additive as opposed to, you know, being negative. And, um, Dr. DiGangi has informed me that this is, um, coming from a fear-based place, because I am not confident internally enough, um, to say something that might make someone upset. I don't yet have the capacity that I would like, I need to expand it, to hold other people's discomfort. I have a problem telling the difference between your emotions and my emotions. It's harder for me. It takes more energy from my brain and my body. So if you are upset, I might take that on, and I don't wanna be upset. So, um, when I'm working with her, she tries to get really, really granular and explain about, "Listen, there, there are two things. There is your brain, and there is reality. And oftentimes people spend their whole life trying to change the one they can't control. And it's literally just like running into a brick wall and continuing to do it, and it's continuing to do it." I mean, so she tries to ge- asked me to give her, like, the most granular situations of when I got, like, a little bit nervous to say

5. 8:42 – 11:40

   The coffee-on-a-plane story: energy waste, control, and authenticity

   1. KBKristen Bell8:42

      something that was authentic. And I gave her this example [laughs] last week. I was on a flight. I'm from Nashville. And it was in the morning, and I, I went to sleep and I woke up, and it was, like, 10:00 AM when we landed. I was like, "Ooh, I need coffee." And the sweetest flight attendant, I was like, "Can I grab a cup of coffee before we land?" She was like, "Yes, baby." And she said, "Do you want cream?" I was like, "Yeah, a little." She brings me back a coffee, and it's half coffee, half cream. And that's fine. It's not my bag, but it's fine. It was a cup of milk. And so-

   2. SPSpeaker9:11

      [laughs]

   3. AGAdam Grant9:12

      [laughs]

   4. KBKristen Bell9:13

      I was like, "I need that juice." So, um-

   5. SPSpeaker9:16

      [laughs]

   6. KBKristen Bell9:17

      I chug the coffee, and then I was like, "I'm gonna go to the restroom." And I said, "Can I get one more, um, cup of coffee?" And she said, "Yes, absolutely." And I get out of my seat, and my mind is going, "Tell her you don't want two creams. Tell her you do not want two creams. Just t- say, 'One cream, please.' Just say, 'One cream.' Go to the bathroom."

   7. SPSpeaker9:33

      [laughs]

   8. KBKristen Bell9:33

      "Just say, 'One cream.' Just say, 'One cream.' Go to the bathroom." I was like...

   9. SPSpeaker9:36

      [laughs]

   10. AGAdam Grant9:38

       [laughs]

   11. KBKristen Bell9:38

       "Go in the bathroom. Just tell her, 'One cream.' Just say, 'One cream.'"

   12. SPSpeaker9:42

       [laughs]

   13. AGAdam Grant9:43

       [laughs]

   14. KBKristen Bell9:43

       "It's not gonna make a difference. That's fine. Just say, 'One cream.' No big deal." She comes out. She's like, "Same way?" I'm like, "Yeah, thank you."

   15. SPSpeaker9:51

       [laughs]

   16. KBKristen Bell9:54

       And then Dr. DiGangi was like, "This is perfect."

   17. SPSpeaker9:57

       [laughs]

   18. KBKristen Bell9:57

       "Perfect example. Look at how much energy you wasted." And I, if I come home at night, which I do, going like, "I'm so drained. So drained, I'm so tired," you know? K- you know, or feeling annoyed that there's, like, a whole system to put kids to bed, and wouldn't it be great to only do that six days a week, and one day they do it themselves.

   19. AGAdam Grant10:19

       [laughs]

   20. KBKristen Bell10:19

       But they're not capable of that. All the stuff. And I'm like, "Well, I wish I wouldn't have wasted so much energy. I'm just so drained." And she's like, "Yeah, well, look at what you're wasting it on." And also, that, there's a couple things at play there, right? 'Cause you really get to analyze it. That woman desires to do a good job. She was, like, the sweetest flight attendant. So, A, I'm kind of stealing her joy a little bit when I don't tell her exactly what I want, which is rude. Which is kind of rude. And-

   21. AGAdam Grant10:49

       Kind of?

   22. KBKristen Bell10:50

       Kind of. Yes, really rude. And also, I, like, I just, I, I'm fearful that I would upset her by telling her how I like my coffee. When you really say it out loud, particularly [laughs] in front of a group of people, it sounds kind of crazy.

   23. SPSpeaker11:09

       [laughs]

   24. KBKristen Bell11:10

       But, like, you're, it's not trauma obviously, but you're having a reaction to being fearful of upsetting this lady. And not only is it fear, but it's control. 'Cause when she doesn't know who you are authentically, and she doesn't have to change, you control the situation and you know exactly how she'll react. So you are actually fearful of sitting with her uncertainty. And then I was just like, "W- " I was like, "Whoa." You know when you wanna shut the computer on someone who says something really strong?

   25. SPSpeaker11:38

       [laughs]

6. 11:40 – 13:48

   Adam Grant’s reframing: people-pleasing isn’t giving (it can be selfish)

   1. AGAdam Grant11:40

      Okay, so I have, I have some thoughts.

   2. KBKristen Bell11:41

      I don't even know where we are.

   3. AGAdam Grant11:43

      No, I do.

   4. SPSpeaker11:45

      [laughs]

   5. AGAdam Grant11:45

      But I, I do wanna, I, I just wanna pick up on a couple things you said about people pleasing.

   6. KBKristen Bell11:49

      Yeah, keep me straight.

   7. AGAdam Grant11:50

      Because this, this relates to a frustration I had when Give and Take first came out.

   8. KBKristen Bell11:55

      Mm-hmm.

   9. AGAdam Grant11:57

      As you know, like I spend a lot of time trying to encourage people to be givers rather than takers.

   10. KBKristen Bell12:01

       Yeah.

   11. AGAdam Grant12:01

       And I kept getting typecast, to use a, a term from your world, as the, the nice guys and nice gals finish first person.

   12. KBKristen Bell12:10

       Mm-hmm.

   13. AGAdam Grant12:10

       And I kept having to explain, like, "No, no, no. Like, being a giver is not about being nice. It's not about pleasing people."

   14. KBKristen Bell12:16

       Mm.

   15. AGAdam Grant12:16

       "It's about helping them." And those are two completely different things. And through, uh, like I, I had so many of those conversations that it finally dawned on me that people pleasing is actually selfish.

   16. KBKristen Bell12:28

       Mm. Oh.

   17. AGAdam Grant12:29

       Because-

   18. KBKristen Bell12:30

       That's what Dax says to me all the time.

   19. SPSpeaker12:32

       [laughs]

   20. AGAdam Grant12:32

       Well, Dax thinks everything is selfish, and he's wrong about that.

   21. KBKristen Bell12:35

       [laughs]

   22. SPSpeaker12:35

       [laughs]

   23. AGAdam Grant12:36

       Uh, but we, we gang up on him. But I think that it's selfish in two ways. One is what you just described, which is you're an empath.

   24. KBKristen Bell12:44

       Mm-hmm.

   25. AGAdam Grant12:44

       And you don't wanna feel someone else's bad feelings, and so it's about you.

   26. KBKristen Bell12:48

       Mm-hmm.

   27. AGAdam Grant12:49

       But it's also selfish because you don't wanna be disliked.

   28. KBKristen Bell12:53

       Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, if I'm disliked, again, I'm, I can't control the situation. And so what I'm learning that it, that it, the really like boiling it down is about I am currently learning to practice just holding uncertainty, and just being patient and holding uncertainty.

   29. AGAdam Grant13:17

       I think this is very relevant to everyone in the room, the, when I think about the research on leadership, for example, there's a curvilinear relationship between how agreeable people are and how effective they tend to be at leading. Um, if you're hyper agreeable, you tend to be too much of a people pleaser and you don't challenge your team enough.

   30. KBKristen Bell13:30

       Mm-hmm.
7. 13:48 – 18:07

   Building chemistry at work: trust signals, micro-connection, and compliments

   1. AGAdam Grant13:48

      So let's talk about chemistry-

   2. KBKristen Bell13:52

      Yeah

   3. AGAdam Grant13:52

      ... with your co-stars and your collaborators.

   4. KBKristen Bell13:54

      Okay.

   5. AGAdam Grant13:55

      Uh, I wanna talk about this from two angles. One is the, the chemistry screen or the read, where you figure out who you have chemistry with.

   6. KBKristen Bell14:02

      Mm-hmm.

   7. AGAdam Grant14:02

      And then the other is how do you build it once you're stuck working with someone?

   8. KBKristen Bell14:06

      Mm.

   9. SPSpeaker14:06

      [laughs]

   10. AGAdam Grant14:07

       So [laughs] let's, let's start at the beginning. I think, how many people have watched Nobody Wants This?

   11. SPSpeaker14:12

       [cheers] [applause]

   12. AGAdam Grant14:14

       Okay. So your, your chemistry with your boyfriend on that show is, uh, it-

   13. KBKristen Bell14:19

       Electric

   14. AGAdam Grant14:19

       ... it's the first thing everyone talks about.

   15. KBKristen Bell14:21

       Yeah.

   16. AGAdam Grant14:21

       Yeah. Even Dax admits it's electric.

   17. KBKristen Bell14:23

       I know. [laughs] He loves it so much.

   18. AGAdam Grant14:24

       Which makes me a little uncomfortable.

   19. KBKristen Bell14:26

       He's like, "I want you guys to kiss so bad."

   20. SPSpeaker14:29

       [laughs]

   21. AGAdam Grant14:30

       And I'm like, "Stop cheating on Dax, Kristen. I'm not okay with that."

   22. KBKristen Bell14:33

       Part of the job.

   23. SPSpeaker14:34

       [laughs]

   24. KBKristen Bell14:35

       Okay. Well, let me start by saying what Adam and I have, if you wanna really break it down, we tapped into something that I don't think anyone's thinking about, which is this like super buried nostalgia of Veronica Mars and Seth Cohen hooking up.

   25. SPSpeaker14:49

       Yeah. [laughs]

   26. KBKristen Bell14:49

       And no one's really, no one really like thinks about that 'cause we're older now and we've sort of forgotten those shows. But anyone that watched those shows, you always wanted a crossover. You know what I mean?

   27. AGAdam Grant14:57

       [laughs]

   28. KBKristen Bell14:57

       You always wanted a crossover. But for me, when I ... I will say this, maybe it's better for me to analyze people that I have to work really closely with, like my producing partner or-

   29. AGAdam Grant15:08

       Mm

   30. KBKristen Bell15:09

       ... um, or someone else that I have to do day-to-day activities, or my ADs who have to like schedule the scenes and I have to trust them if I say my daughter has a recital at 6:00 PM, and I really have to trust that they're gonna get me out in time. Those kinds of people. So the barometer that I use is if I can get enough of a read on you that I think I would let you babysit my kids, we're probably good to go.
8. 18:07 – 19:15

   Power dynamics and flattery: spotting insincere praise and valuing teasing

   1. AGAdam Grant18:07

      As a hobby. Um, the, the compliment thing is tricky though, when you're a leader or a person in a position of power on the receiving end of it.

   2. KBKristen Bell18:15

      Mm.

   3. AGAdam Grant18:15

      Because I'm sure, like if I came on set, the first person I wanna compliment is Kristen Bell, and I'm sure you get a lot of brown-nosing, a lot of dishonest flattery.

   4. KBKristen Bell18:26

      Yeah.

   5. AGAdam Grant18:26

      How do you deal with that?

   6. KBKristen Bell18:28

      Well, [sighs] I mean, honestly, it's so eas- it's easy for me to tell. I'm picking up on people's energetic signatures. I'm not picking up on the, the words. I'm looking for the people around me who maybe could benefit from a little sprinkle of attention, and if someone's giving me a lot of compliments, it's honestly probably not the person I'm gonna gravitate towards the rest of the day.

   7. AGAdam Grant18:54

      So the fastest way to your heart is to insult you?

   8. KBKristen Bell18:56

      100%.

   9. SPSpeaker18:57

      [laughs]

   10. KBKristen Bell18:58

       100%.

   11. AGAdam Grant18:59

       Done.

   12. KBKristen Bell18:59

       Well, to tease me, yeah, 'cause I think jokes are very funny, and that's, I mean, I married my husband 'cause he teases me all the time, and I love it so much.

   13. AGAdam Grant19:07

       I wanna talk about when you mentioned a lot of times you're not in charge of casting, and you don't get to control who you have to work with.

   14. KBKristen Bell19:15

       Right. Right.

9. 19:15 – 21:25

   Protecting energy and emotional contagion: transform it or transmit it

   1. AGAdam Grant19:15

      And sometimes you have to work with people who are not as good as you are.

   2. KBKristen Bell19:19

      I think because it is very natural and normal and toddler-esque to be jealous or envious of someone who has something that you want. Like when you're a toddler and you want french fries and someone has french fries, you're angry at that. You hate that person. I think it's, uh, it's we're primates, so you can't get around it, so if you can't get around it, you just have to be aware of it, and for me in particular, I can't suck it up. I have a barrier here of the energy that I will protect because I have a, a finite amount of energy each day, and I wanna make sure that I'm taking a good portion of it home to my family at night, and I'm still able to engage with them even with long days. But I also think that, I think when you take someone else's bait of any negative emotion, you have to be really, really careful because if you don't transform it, you will transmit it, and then you're a part of the problem, and that's even worse 'cause you're part of the problem that you're complaining about. So I do take that very seriously. Like when something negative happens, I'm like, "If I don't transform this, I will transmit it," and I just would prefer a better resume. [laughs] I don't wanna be responsible for transmitting a bunch of negative stuff.

   3. AGAdam Grant20:47

      I, I love that mantra.

   4. KBKristen Bell20:48

      Thanks.

   5. AGAdam Grant20:50

      You're welcome. Compliment executed. There is a, there is a little, a little wrinkle though.

   6. KBKristen Bell20:55

      Tell me

   7. AGAdam Grant20:55

      ... which is when you say, "If you don't transform it, you will transmit it"-

   8. KBKristen Bell21:00

      Mm-hmm

   9. AGAdam Grant21:00

      ... I think a lot of people will be tempted to say, "Okay. I, I, whenever I feel an unpleasant emotion-

   10. KBKristen Bell21:06

       Mm

   11. AGAdam Grant21:06

       ... I just immediately need to ward it off."

   12. KBKristen Bell21:09

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   13. AGAdam Grant21:09

       "I'm gonna avoid it, or I'm gonna deny it, or I'm gonna suppress it."

   14. KBKristen Bell21:13

       Mm-hmm.

   15. AGAdam Grant21:13

       And I don't think that's what you're talking about.

   16. KBKristen Bell21:15

       No. Transformation means taking something that exists, fully making it something different, and spitting it out, right? You're transforming it.

10. 21:25 – 24:52

    Admitting envy: Anna Kendrick, roles, and the ‘I don’t know’ mindset

    1. AGAdam Grant21:25

       So I wanna go back to envy for a second.

    2. KBKristen Bell21:27

       Okay.

    3. AGAdam Grant21:27

       Because you, I think for most of your life, have been immune to envy. You maybe, maybe pathologically see the best in people.

    4. SPSpeaker21:37

       [laughs]

    5. KBKristen Bell21:39

       Okay.

    6. AGAdam Grant21:39

       Some people believe-

    7. KBKristen Bell21:40

       Okay

    8. AGAdam Grant21:40

       ... some people who know you and love you believe that-

    9. KBKristen Bell21:43

       Fair

    10. AGAdam Grant21:44

        ... you, you bend over backward to see the good in everyone.

    11. KBKristen Bell21:46

        Yeah.

    12. AGAdam Grant21:46

        I've seen you do it with people who don't deserve it even.

    13. KBKristen Bell21:49

        Ooh.

    14. AGAdam Grant21:50

        And I can see you're coming around. You're admitting that this might be true.

    15. KBKristen Bell21:53

        No. I'm about to take you down.

    16. SPSpeaker21:55

        [laughs]

    17. AGAdam Grant21:56

        Uh, you, you joined the envy fold not-

    18. KBKristen Bell22:00

        Mm

    19. AGAdam Grant22:00

        ... terribly long ago.

    20. KBKristen Bell22:01

        Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    21. AGAdam Grant22:02

        When I, I was stunned to fi- find out that you, you had someone that you envied.

    22. KBKristen Bell22:07

        Yeah.

    23. AGAdam Grant22:07

        Tell us who and why.

    24. KBKristen Bell22:09

        Listen, Anna Kendrick is aggressively talented.

    25. SPSpeaker22:13

        [laughs]

    26. KBKristen Bell22:15

        Okay? Everything she does is exceptional, and she's gotten a lot of roles that I wanted.

    27. SPSpeaker22:22

        [laughs]

    28. KBKristen Bell22:24

        A lot of roles that I wanted, and sometimes I think about that-

    29. AGAdam Grant22:28

        [laughs]

    30. KBKristen Bell22:28

        ... and that's where I'm gonna leave it. [laughs]
11. 24:52 – 25:31

    Repair through vulnerability: meeting Kendrick and dissolving jealousy

    1. KBKristen Bell24:52

       But you know what's so funny is then when she was on the podcast and she was so, so great on Dax's podcast. She was so vulnerable. And, um, Dax made her come in the house to meet me because he knew he was gonna, like, mend this jealousy I had towards her.

    2. AGAdam Grant25:05

       [laughs]

    3. KBKristen Bell25:07

       And she was so beautiful, and I just, I gave her a big hug and I was like, "Oh, my God, I love you so much, and I'm constantly so jealous of you. I'm con-"

    4. AGAdam Grant25:14

       [laughs]

    5. KBKristen Bell25:14

       And then she ... And I admitted it. And I felt really good about it after that.

    6. AGAdam Grant25:18

       Wow. I was a little sad that you mended it, 'cause I wanted, I wanted you to sit with a- [laughs] ... like, a little-

    7. KBKristen Bell25:24

       I feel like I sat with it for-

    8. AGAdam Grant25:25

       A little, a little discomfort

    9. KBKristen Bell25:26

       ... like 10 years.

    10. AGAdam Grant25:28

        [laughs] All right, that's fair. I just didn't know about it until-

    11. KBKristen Bell25:31

        [laughs]

12. 25:31 – 31:45

    Tough love as a skill: pressure-testing ego, setting boundaries, and taking credit

    1. AGAdam Grant25:31

       ... recently. Okay. So Kristen, you were talking a few minutes ago about playfulness being important.

    2. KBKristen Bell25:36

       Yeah.

    3. AGAdam Grant25:37

       So I thought it'd be fun to play a game.

    4. KBKristen Bell25:38

       Do it.

    5. AGAdam Grant25:39

       Okay. I think maybe in part because of your people pleasing tendencies-

    6. KBKristen Bell25:43

       Yeah

    7. AGAdam Grant25:43

       ... this is maybe the, the silver lining in them, in part because of your emotional intelligence, and in part because of your acting skills-

    8. KBKristen Bell25:49

       Okay

    9. AGAdam Grant25:50

       ... I think you are extraordinarily good at divi- at, at dishing out tough love.

    10. KBKristen Bell25:55

        Ooh.

    11. AGAdam Grant25:55

        I have watched you give-

    12. KBKristen Bell25:56

        Oh, it's so exhausting, though. It's so-

    13. AGAdam Grant25:58

        Well, that's why we're gonna make it a game.

    14. KBKristen Bell25:59

        Okay, great.

    15. AGAdam Grant26:00

        So I've watched you give critical feedback to people-

    16. KBKristen Bell26:02

        Mm

    17. AGAdam Grant26:02

        ... in ways that do- don't crush their souls. I have watched you, uh, maybe say things that are honest that o- other people might not wanna hear, and they take it fine because of the way that you deliver it. And so I thought it'd be fun if you could demonstrate that skill for us today.

    18. KBKristen Bell26:16

        Okay.

    19. AGAdam Grant26:17

        And you can, you can do it in any of your characters if it's easier for you.

    20. KBKristen Bell26:20

        Okay.

    21. AGAdam Grant26:21

        [laughs] Your, your choice. The first one is, um, I'd like you to imagine that you are working with people who are basing decisions on ego instead of facts.

    22. KBKristen Bell26:33

        Mm-hmm.

    23. AGAdam Grant26:34

        What would you say to those people?

    24. KBKristen Bell26:37

        Um, I would start with a question, not a statement, 'cause it's a little bit more communicative, and I always ask, "Can I pressure test this?" And I tend, just did it, I talk with my hands a lot, and I tend to give body feedback that I'm not a threat. Here to help. Just wanna pressure test this. Um, by saying that, I feel as though I'm also reminding them we're on a team because team members have respect when they ask permission. They don't just say like, "No, you're wrong," or, "Hey, you're doing this." The pointing of the finger thing just, you never get a good result, and if you don't get a good result, why even waste your energy trying? And then I would probably speak slowly and thoughtfully so that they knew I was concerned, and I would s- then present a detail that sh- showed them we might be missing something. I would probably say, "Can I pressure test this? Um, if we hire that person without seeing any others, I, I just worry I don't want us to miss some genius that's one audition away from being seen by us. And if we do wait a little bit longer, we could get really lucky." So there's sort of like a flow of emotional math that I'm trying to use when I speak to the person that's like respect but not ... What's it called when you, like, bow to someone? Like what's that?

    25. AGAdam Grant28:23

        Deference. Deference, I'm hearing from the audience. [laughs]

    26. KBKristen Bell28:26

        Don't use deference. Because then they already know you're not strong enough to pressure test it. Stay in the conversation. But be a team member, and then provide them a piece of information that allows them to be reminded that they don't know everything because we don't know everything.

    27. AGAdam Grant28:47

        I think, okay, so I, I love the sequence here of leading with inquiry rather than advocacy, then showing care and concern-

    28. KBKristen Bell28:55

        Mm-hmm

    29. AGAdam Grant28:55

        ... and making it clear that this is a collective problem, not just an individual one-

    30. KBKristen Bell28:59

        Mm-hmm
13. 31:45 – 35:40

    Getting people to leave (nicely): language hacks, community costs, and ‘Uncle Randy’

    1. AGAdam Grant31:45

       Okay. I have noticed you have a, you have a, a secret weapon that gets you out of people staying too long at your house.

    2. SPSpeaker31:56

       [laughs]

    3. AGAdam Grant31:57

       Does any- anyone ever have the problem of guests overstaying their welcome, and you can't get rid of them, or somebody-

    4. KBKristen Bell32:01

       Whoa, right? Ugh

    5. AGAdam Grant32:03

       ... or somebody shows up in your office and they won't leave. Like, this is a perpetual problem for we agreeable people pleasers.

    6. KBKristen Bell32:09

       Yeah.

    7. AGAdam Grant32:09

       And yet you have cracked this code.

    8. KBKristen Bell32:11

       What do I do?

    9. AGAdam Grant32:12

       Well, I've, I've seen you do it several times. Like, dinner is done.

    10. KBKristen Bell32:15

        Get out! No, just kidding.

    11. AGAdam Grant32:16

        No.

    12. KBKristen Bell32:16

        [laughs]

    13. AGAdam Grant32:17

        And maybe you don't even realize you're doing it.

    14. KBKristen Bell32:18

        I might not. Tell me.

    15. AGAdam Grant32:19

        Dinner is done, and you just say, "It was so great having you."

    16. SPSpeaker32:23

        [laughs]

    17. KBKristen Bell32:24

        Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    18. AGAdam Grant32:25

        As if, like, you, you've immediately taken dinner into the past. It's, like, not, it is great having you. No, no, no. This, this has already happened. It's done.

    19. KBKristen Bell32:33

        Yeah.

    20. AGAdam Grant32:33

        Go home.

    21. KBKristen Bell32:34

        Yeah.

    22. AGAdam Grant32:34

        But you say it so kindly, it doesn't feel like you're kicking other people out.

    23. KBKristen Bell32:38

        This is what writers do in a writer's room, right? They wanna write a, a scene between two people, and they want the action to be, uh, the, the motivation and action to be one thing, but they can't use those words. So they, they have to do two... Oftentimes writers have to make two things work at once. So if you want someone to leave but you still want them to like you, th- you just have to put a little bit of thought into what you say. And apparently I have mastered the, "It was so great having you."

    24. AGAdam Grant33:07

        That's exactly how you do it.

    25. KBKristen Bell33:09

        Well, yeah, I mean [laughs] it was so great. Do you know my mom has a sign in her house that says, "Please leave by 9:00"?

    26. AGAdam Grant33:13

        [laughs]

    27. SPSpeaker33:14

        [laughs]

    28. KBKristen Bell33:15

        'Cause we're real early to bed people. But you're, you're doing, you're accomplishing two things. You are sa- stating a genuine experience, because I don't have people over to my house... Like, when you're over for dinner, it's not, I, I don't not want you in my life or over to my house. But I also know to protect myself and my energy, I do need to go to bed by 9:00.

    29. AGAdam Grant33:36

        Yep.

    30. KBKristen Bell33:36

        So if you wanna stay up and talk all night, you are welcome to, but it will not be with me. [laughs]
14. 35:40 – 41:09

    Lightning round: identity in roles, career lanes, over-explaining, and hope

    1. AGAdam Grant35:40

       It is lightning round time. First question is, which of all the roles you played-

    2. KBKristen Bell35:45

       Yeah

    3. AGAdam Grant35:45

       ... who did you, which character did you identify most with?

    4. KBKristen Bell35:49

       There are slivers in me, of me in each one of them certainly, but Anna of Arendelle is probably the closest.

    5. SPSpeaker36:01

       Woo! [clapping]

    6. AGAdam Grant36:01

       Agree. Okay, the one you identify least with, I was torn between Eleanor and Sarah Marshall. Is either of those right?

    7. KBKristen Bell36:11

       It's Sarah Marshall. I identify quite a bit with Eleanor. Listen, if you studied internal family systems, you know there are different people coming up from the living room all the time, okay? And I've got different people popping up, and one's a professional, and one's a badass, and one's real snarky, and one's real tired, so they're all in there.

    8. AGAdam Grant36:27

       We're gonna debate this later.

    9. KBKristen Bell36:29

       You don't like it?

    10. AGAdam Grant36:30

        No. You don't have different people in your head, they're dif- just different aspects of your personality.

    11. KBKristen Bell36:35

        Samir

    12. AGAdam Grant36:35

        We don't need all the parts.

    13. SPSpeaker36:36

        [laughs]

    14. AGAdam Grant36:37

        All right.

    15. KBKristen Bell36:37

        They don't have to be different people, but could they, like, at least have different wigs? Let's make it fun, Adam.

    16. AGAdam Grant36:42

        [laughs]

    17. SPSpeaker36:42

        [laughs]

    18. KBKristen Bell36:42

        My God.

    19. AGAdam Grant36:43

        You have to bring up the wigs with me?

    20. SPSpeaker36:45

        [laughs]

    21. KBKristen Bell36:47

        [laughs]

    22. AGAdam Grant36:48

        So cruel. Okay. Uh, if you could play one role again, who would you love to reinhabit?

    23. KBKristen Bell36:57

        Eleanor. She was so fun.

    24. AGAdam Grant36:59

        Yeah.

    25. KBKristen Bell37:00

        And she said such dirty things.

    26. SPSpeaker37:02

        [laughs]

    27. AGAdam Grant37:04

        Worst career advice you've ever gotten?

    28. KBKristen Bell37:06

        It wasn't explicitly said to me. It was absorbed by comparison and the things I saw around me, which was try to be everything. Try to be what they want you to be. And I, for many, many years, was like, um, you know, auditioning for things. I was like, "Oh, Emily Blunt. Oh, Michelle Williams. Oh, gonna be Anna Kendrick again."

    29. SPSpeaker37:24

        [laughs]

    30. AGAdam Grant37:24

        [laughs]

Episode duration: 41:10