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Khan Academy CEO: The Real AI Opportunity Is in Boring Industries | Sal Khan

📌 Upload the skills and start today : https://clickhubspot.com/c4dc9b Sal Khan built Khan Academy into a free education platform used by over 200 million people worldwide. Now he's writing a book called Job Shock, arguing AI could disrupt jobs faster than his own past predictions accounted for. Which jobs are already disappearing. Which ones are safe. What Khan Academy is doing internally with AI, including a $1.2M/year Anthropic bill. And Sal's new venture with TED and ETS: a $10,000, accreditation-pending degree built around durable skills — the kind AI still can't replicate. Timestamps: 00:00 – Teaser 06:34 – How soon will AI hit jobs? 09:31 – Is Khan Academy laying anyone off because of AI? 13:15 – AI tools that would've seemed impossible 2 years ago 14:09 – Khan Academy's $1.2M/year Anthropic bill 19:57 – Could AI build another Khan Academy from scratch? 22:43 – A $10K degree with TED and ETS 25:20 – The 5 durable skills that matter in an AI world 29:28 – What happens to non-elite universities? 31:36 – Should parents still save for college? 37:45 – What can one person do today to stay relevant? 39:06 – The AI prompts that changed how they work *Links:* 📩 Follow my Future-Proof Newsletter: https://siliconvalleygirl.beehiiv.com/subscribe?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=video&utm_campaign=futureproof-sub&utm_content=Sal-Khan 🔗 My Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/siliconvalleygirl/ 📌 My Companies & Products: https://partnerships.marinamogilko.co

Sal KhanguestMarina Mogilkohost
Jul 14, 202644mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 6:34

    Teaser

    1. SK

      And so they're asking, and we're saying, "Hey, use more AI, use more AI." Software engineering, design, product management in all of these tech firms, including at Khan Academy, are changing fundamentally.

    2. MM

      This is Sal Khan. He runs Khan Academy. 100 million people learn on it every year. He built one of the first AI tutors in the world.

    3. SK

      Excellent work.

    4. MM

      No one has spent more time on how people reskill for AI.

    5. SK

      If we could do three times more with the same resources, we will do three times more. So that would never be the catalyst for layoffs. If you can automate yourself out of a job, we're gonna give you a better job with better pay. [laughs]

    6. MM

      What are you thinking about the next five years?

    7. SK

      Don't run to where everyone else is running. Try to find the lanes that are most empty. And I would say-

    8. MM

      Thanks to HubSpot for Startups for sponsoring this video. And we're in this interesting phase where AI is changing everything, and your previous book was called Brave New Words, and now you're writing a book called Job Shock. So what has changed in the past two years?

    9. SK

      Oh, wow. [laughs] What has changed? So much has changed. Uh, you know, what I wrote in my last book, Brave New Words, about AI and education, I... When I was writing this in 2023, I was afraid that as soon as I write it, it would be obsolete because things are changing so fast. But I keep looking at it and it's, it's still, I feel, very relevant. I write about things like how A will bro- AI will, uh, broaden the aperture of how we assess people, how, you know, p- people have talked a lot about AI tutors. But there's other forms of assessment. Interviews, oral exams. And you actually are starting to see some of that. So we could talk a lot of... You know, some of those things that were just ideas, uh, three years ago we're now seeing in reality. I just talked to the head of admissions at Caltech.

    10. MM

      Mm.

    11. SK

      And a lot of students who apply, they, they give these, um, research papers they've done. And the admissions officer says some of these are real and some of them, not clear if the student did the work, et cetera. And so they're already using AI to-

    12. MM

      Yeah

    13. SK

      ... essentially do oral exams with these students-

    14. MM

      Wow

    15. SK

      ... to evaluate if they understand. Uh, and this is pretty high stakes. This is for admissions to, to top universities. Uh, so you're already seeing AI in that part. We've launched Khanmigo out into, uh, classrooms. We've learned a lot. There's, uh, for a lot of students it's been super useful, but we've also learned that AI 101, or the first 1.0 AI, it, it, it's waiting to be asked to do something. And, um, some students know how to do it. A lot of them didn't. So what we're... Now we're in the process of launching a new version. It's more proactive. And it isn't AI for AI's sake. It's, how do we get AI to motivate students, give them more practice, have the teacher in the loop, et cetera? In terms of why I'm now writing Job Shock, which is, some people are surprised, 'cause most of, not just my books, but most of the things I've ever said, I tend to be pretty optimistic. But I'm, I am increasingly worried. Uh, you know, not too far from... This was about, I don't know, I wanna say about three or four months ago, maybe a little longer. I have a, a good friend from college who's now a prominent VC, and he said, "Hey, Sal, I wanna talk about reskilling." And so I to- I remember I drove over to his place, not too far from here in Los Altos, and while I was driving you see the Waymos like you see everywhere here.

    16. MM

      Yeah.

    17. SK

      I'm like, "Oh, that's interesting. This is cool. Look, I live in the future." Then I go over to his, his office, and he was telling me that one of his portfolio companies has a call center that they've, they've just automated 80% of their workforce with a, with a generative AI-

    18. MM

      Oh, how many people?

    19. SK

      ... solution. I don't know the exact number, but it sounded like it was in the hundreds if not thousands of people.

    20. MM

      Wow.

    21. SK

      For that one call center.

    22. MM

      Wow.

    23. SK

      In... Based in the Philippines. And this is why he said, "Well, maybe I wanna take 1% of my firm's profits and, and put it into reskilling sometime," and we started brainstorming. And, and we appreciated that e- especially in a, an economy like the Philippines where, depending on how you measure it, 5, 6, 7% of their GDP is directly related to business process outsourcing, mostly call centers.

    24. MM

      Yeah.

    25. SK

      If this becomes a trend, and there's a lot of reason to think it will over the next three to five years, what are all those people going to do?

    26. MM

      Mm.

    27. SK

      And then when we see a Waymo, it's awesome. I w- I was at TED a couple of weeks ago and I, uh, interviewed Tekedra Mawakana, who's a co-CEO. I'm a big fan of Waymos. I think it's gonna save a lot of lives. It's super convenient. But my uncle's also an Uber driver [laughs] in New Orleans.

    28. MM

      Mm-hmm.

    29. SK

      What's he going to do? That's not people's first choice job. It's usually their last choice job in a lot of cases. And if, if Rideshare goes away... And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Out here in Silicon Valley everyone's talking about what's happening to software engineering, product management, design. Are those roles going to merge? Are we gonna hire more or less, et cetera? But it is crazy times. And, uh, I wrote a... The Job Shock's genesis was I wrote a New York Times op-ed, a piece in December, uh, where I made this argument that, like, we have to take this a lot more seriously.

    30. MM

      Mm.

  2. 6:34 – 9:31

    How soon will AI hit jobs?

    1. MM

      every single Short we make. Of course, I do a lot of edits on top, but it's a great foundation to start with. The last one is the framework itself, the Automate or Hire Roadmap. It takes every task on my team and sorts into three buckets. What hands to AI completely, where AI does the first draft then a person checks it, and what stays fully human. And you absolutely don't need a team of 35 to use any of this. You upload the scales into Claude and you start today. Go to the link below, and thank you to HubSpot for Startups for sponsoring this and building with me. Okay, back to Sal. How much time do you think we have for someone who's an Uber driver watching right now? 'Cause I feel like with Waymo's, it took them still, it took them 10 years to roll out the operation that we're seeing now, and we're only seeing it in San Francisco

    2. SK

      I think you're gonna start seeing a real dent in this in five or 10 years. And that's slower than what a lot of the AI optimistic evangelists are saying, but that's also pretty fast. And-

    3. MM

      That's our lifetime

    4. SK

      ... that's, that's before your kids go to high school [laughs]

    5. MM

      Yeah, exactly

    6. SK

      ... you know, that sort of when they go to high school or when they, before they go to college. And driving a vehicle is the largest employ- one of the largest employers of men. I mean, women obviously. My Uber driver just now was a woman.

    7. MM

      Mm-hmm.

    8. SK

      But like disproportionately men-

    9. MM

      Yeah

    10. SK

      ... um, globally. If you have a lot of men who can't find a job, uh, who are angry, that's-

    11. MM

      Not good

    12. SK

      ... and, and women, uh, that's going to lead into politics, polarization. People are gonna move towards extremes. So I, I, I suspect that you're, you're going to see in the next four or five years, um, r- the dislocations start to happen for real. And we're gonna struggle as a society on, on how, what, what do, how do we reskill people? I'm not a fan of things like universal basic income. I think it, you know, like universal basic work. People f- need, need to feel like a sense of contribution. But, um, these, these are big questions that we have to be creative about.

    13. MM

      Yeah, and it's not just Uber drivers, right? You mentioned call centers. Um, what are other jobs that are in danger?

    14. SK

      I think the writing's on the wall that software engineering, design, product management, these product jobs in all of these tech firms, including at Khan Academy, are changing fundamentally.

    15. MM

      But are they endangered? Like, are they, are these people gonna end up in the street? 'Cause I don't think so. I think they-

    16. SK

      I, I'm not sure.

    17. MM

      Mm-hmm.

    18. SK

      I, I, I'm generally not sure. Uh, you know, what I've told our Khan Academy team, 'cause you can imagine the employees are very worried and they're saying-

    19. MM

      How many people do you have?

    20. SK

      We have 350 people-

    21. MM

      Okay

    22. SK

      ... on our team.

    23. MM

      Mm-hmm.

    24. SK

      And we're two-thirds product people. And so they're asking, and we're saying, "Hey, use more AI, use more AI."

    25. MM

      Yeah.

    26. SK

      And Anthropic just gave us a report that we're at the top of the stack apparently on-

    27. MM

      Ah

    28. SK

      ... organizations that are leaning into these tools.

    29. MM

      Mm-hmm.

    30. SK

      But you can imagine the team sometimes feels insecure about this. They say, "Hey-

  3. 9:31 – 13:15

    Is Khan Academy laying anyone off because of AI?

    1. SK

      earned revenue, then just money will, will force us to it, you know. But it's not going to be AI. AI will allow us to, to do more.

    2. MM

      Yeah.

    3. SK

      But we have also said that people's jobs are evolving, and people really need to learn how to keep up with the times. And we're, we've put on our, um, career rubric, like learning new tools and adapting, or we're actually putting it into our y- our, our career rubric. So I suspect that many of our team members are already there. A lot of them are very willing and are gonna get there. But I, I do sense that there's some people who are like, "Ah, I don't know if I like this. I don't know if I wanna do this." Um, and I think that, that might be a more, a, a, a bigger struggle if, if folks don't want to, aren't, aren't, aren't in a position to adapt or change.

    4. MM

      And you think they're gonna be at risk in the next five years?

    5. SK

      I think some, yeah.

    6. MM

      Yeah.

    7. SK

      I, I, I think, uh, you know, we don't know exactly what these titles are going to be, but this des- designer, product manager, engineer division, it's really-

    8. MM

      It's kind of blending.

    9. SK

      Yes, exactly.

    10. MM

      Yeah.

    11. SK

      And the current framework came mostly out of the late '90s into the early 2000s of okay, how do you build web apps? And it's that model. Um, but the new world... And not only are those roles people who used to be designers or, or product managers are now not just prototyping anymore. You know, last year I met some heads of product. They're like, "Oh, I'm forcing all my product managers to create a prototype." And I'm like, "Wow, that's really bold." Well, now at Khan Academy, we're taking our designers and our product managers, and we're giving them full dev environments so that they can actually do pull requests and do full, you know, deploying, deploying of code. Now, it's still leaning on more of the prototype proof of concept, but it's blending. And similarly, because engineers can do so much more, I think there'll always be value of that engineer who could be super deep.

    12. MM

      Yeah.

    13. SK

      Uh, eh, but they're gonna be much more productive. But I think you're also gonna see a breed of engineer that can go more customer facing, et cetera. So yes, these things are all, all, all blending. And just the development cycle's speeding up too, so people have to feel comfortable with that.

    14. MM

      Going back to the jobs that are endangered, um, drivers, call center, customer support, um, people who work in product/designer, software engineer and don't want to adapt. Anyone else?

    15. SK

      The people I think are safe are the people who really lean into the human element of it.

    16. MM

      Mm.

    17. SK

      So I've said I think teachers are one of the safest jobs, but once again, even before AI, I d- I don't view that the role of the teacher is to be the sage on the stage and to just disseminate information. We've had textbooks for now centuries. We have videos on demand. We have other places to get information.

    18. MM

      Yeah.

    19. SK

      I think the teachers... And we, we've seen teachers do this. Good, great teachers have been doing this for decades, move up the value chain, and they're the planners, the architects-

    20. MM

      Coaches

    21. SK

      ... the, the coaches.

    22. MM

      Yeah.

    23. SK

      They're able to form, you know, have eye contact with students and be their motivators. I, I can't speak for you, but for myself, when I think about the great teachers in my life, some of them were like, wow, they used to give a good performance on [laughs] at the co- But most of them were the ones that ran a Socratic dialogue with all of us, really made us dream or do things-

    24. MM

      Yeah

    25. SK

      ... we never thought about. Or say, "Hey, Sal, can you see me after class? Hey, Sal, I really liked what you did that time. You, you have a knack for that." Or, "Sal, I didn't like-

    26. MM

      Yeah

    27. SK

      ... what you did. Stop it.

    28. MM

      [laughs]

    29. SK

      If you did that in the real world, someone's gonna [laughs] you know-

    30. MM

      Mm-hmm

  4. 13:15 – 14:09

    AI tools that would've seemed impossible 2 years ago

    1. SK

      by it.

    2. MM

      Yeah.

    3. SK

      And so they'll probably all cancel each other out in terms of efficacy, but the, uh, the ability to actually form a relationship with someone, be a convincing advisor, and you know-

    4. MM

      Totally

    5. SK

      ... the best salespeople aren't like salespeople. They're, they're actually smart, thoughtful people where you actually respect their opinion.

    6. MM

      Yeah.

    7. SK

      And, and you want their advice.

    8. MM

      Yeah. We've seen a-

    9. SK

      And they- and you know they're a straight shooter, and they'll say, "You know, our product isn't best for that."

    10. MM

      Mm-hmm.

    11. SK

      "You might wanna use that." A- and you're like, "Oh, I trust you. [laughs] Let me use you next time." And so I think that human connection, anything that can be purely done on a computer, and you're not interfacing with other human beings, you're not having to build some of these durable skills of communication and persuasion and listening and collaboration, those will change-

    12. MM

      Mm-hmm

    13. SK

      ... or, or they, they might be under threat.

    14. MM

      Okay, let's talk about adopting those AI tools.

    15. SK

      Yeah.

    16. MM

      You just mentioned, uh, you use Anthropic a lot. Can you talk about the processes in your company that seem absolutely mind-blow- that would've seemed

  5. 14:09 – 19:57

    Khan Academy's $1.2M/year Anthropic bill

    1. MM

      absolutely mind-blowing two years ago, and now they're a part of your process?

    2. SK

      Oh. Um, y- you know, well, I think engineering is where we're seeing it the most.

    3. MM

      Mm-hmm.

    4. SK

      And that is where we also, and I think you've heard many people say, you know, some of the engineers who are really leaning into this, they're running five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 agents simultaneously-

    5. MM

      Yeah

    6. SK

      ... writing code, reviewing code. Um, the Anthropic folks told us that we were one of the biggest users of actually the agents for reviewing code. Um-

    7. MM

      Interesting, wow.

    8. SK

      And, and you know, we [laughs] we, I, I'm getting a little sticker shock for how expensive this stuff is. Our, our run rate on, on our, our Anthropic bill is about $1.2M right now. Um-

    9. MM

      Wow

    10. SK

      ... and it's growing fast.

    11. MM

      That's a year or a month?

    12. SK

      A year.

    13. MM

      A year.

    14. SK

      A year. A year.

    15. MM

      [laughs]

    16. SK

      But it's still a lot-

    17. MM

      Still a lot

    18. SK

      ... for, for, you know-

    19. MM

      It's like-

    20. SK

      ... 200 or so engineers

    21. MM

      ... a few software engineers

    22. SK

      ... it's mostly engineers. And we're looking on a daily basis, and our CTO was saying, "Yeah, we just saw one of our engineers spent $3,000 in a day," I think that was the number, "of compute costs." And I'm like, oh my God, what are... I think it was-

    23. MM

      Are you trying to push them to use even more?

    24. SK

      Well, well-

    25. MM

      'Cause you see some companies try to do that

    26. SK

      ... well, that was the question. I was like, what are they doing?

    27. MM

      Yeah.

    28. SK

      And then he's like, "Then we talked to them, and they actually in a few hours were able to do something that would've normally taken them three or four months."

    29. MM

      Wow.

    30. SK

      It's like, okay, that was a great-

  6. 19:57 – 22:43

    Could AI build another Khan Academy from scratch?

    1. MM

      All the research, of course. Quick pause here. If you're enjoying this podcast, you will absolutely love my Inner Circle Newsletter. So what I basically do is I take all the tips from these podcasts and I apply them to my personal life, to my investment portfolio, and to my businesses, this media company and my language teaching business. Sometimes we get amazing results and I share our real tactics, sometimes we don't and I share that, too. Think of it as an insider version of this podcast. The link is in the description. Join my free newsletter to stay ahead. Does it ever make you scared? 'Cause when you're seeing this progress, are you ever thinking like, "Oh, in three years AI is able to develop another Khan Academy just by itself just because, like, why would it need humans?" [laughs]

    2. SK

      Yeah. Uh, a- and I, I have two responses to that.

    3. MM

      Mm.

    4. SK

      One is my, um, my emotional ego response to that, and then one is my more higher-minded correct response to it. My-

    5. MM

      Then give me both. [laughs]

    6. SK

      [laughs] My emotional ego response is yeah, I do worry about that.

    7. MM

      Mm-hmm.

    8. SK

      And, uh, one could imagine ... I, I think it's very hard right now to vibe code something as, as, like, the same fidelity and quality. You could make something that looks kinda like Khan Academy but not have the rigor, et cetera.

    9. MM

      Yeah.

    10. SK

      I, I think in ... It's quite plausible that in three or four or five years people could maybe start to develop these things. Uh, there I think there still will be the burden to how do you have the efficacy data that it really works? How do you make sure that you're working with school systems in a way that meets all of their data privacy agreements that's-

    11. MM

      Let me talk to their agents-

    12. SK

      Yes, exactly

    13. MM

      ... and figure it out. [laughs]

    14. SK

      Yeah, yeah.

    15. MM

      Yeah.

    16. SK

      But, but they, I, uh, there, there will still be some of those frictions.

    17. MM

      Totally, yeah.

    18. SK

      It won't be as simple as, as vibe coding.

    19. MM

      Mm-hmm.

    20. SK

      So I think there will still be some advantages of already having something out there that's already being used by millions and that you have real data on-

    21. MM

      Yeah

    22. SK

      ... real efficacy on. You, you're were able to work with the, the, the system. The correct answer, which I tell the team all the time, is if we or someone else can create a solution that's as good as us or better, and actually show that they're doing it, it just doesn't feel that way, as a nonprofit we should be happy about that.

    23. MM

      Mm-hmm.

    24. SK

      We should say, "Good. Uh, uh, one of the many problems in the world has now been solved."

    25. MM

      Yeah.

    26. SK

      "What other problems are there to be solved?" And y- you know, for better or for worse in the education space, there are many problems to, to solve here.

    27. MM

      Yeah.

    28. SK

      Um, and you know, one of the things we're thinking about at Khan Academy is assessment. So standardized assessment, historically it's multiple choice, et cetera. That's why a lot of people don't like it. It's very narrow. But we're working on real standardized assessment with real psychometrics that has some of the traditional but also starts broadening the aperture, asking students to explain their reasoning, giving teachers not just the what percentile their kids are in, but what, um, giving a narrative. And those ... Things like that are also very hard to just vibe code in a garage-

    29. MM

      Totally

    30. SK

      ... uh, because you're doing all the psychometric data.

  7. 22:43 – 25:20

    A $10K degree with TED and ETS

    1. SK

      You have to get it out there with millions of people to use it. And I think that's an area where, uh, very, very few V- VCs or a- frankly even private equity firms are like, "Let's create a new standardized test [laughs] leveraging AI," because it's, it's, it's a lot of work and it'll take years to get the right psychometric validation and to go out there into, into schools and, and other places. And so but that's where I think we as a nonprofit that's tech-focused can be valuable. We're thinking a lot about credentials, high school d- high school credentials, high school diplomas, credit recovery, uh, college degrees, pathways into jobs. And, uh, you know, those are the places where I hope AI gets better, I hope it can create a lot of solutions, but I would be surprised if markets on their own are able to solve a lot of these problems.

    2. MM

      Yeah. But someone who's listening and thinking, "Okay, he's positive about being likely replaced in three years," I'm not. [laughs] So for someone who has these thoughts, can you talk more about your new initiative? 'Cause, uh, when I heard that at TED Vancouver that you're partnering with TED and ETS, for me it was another full circle moment 'cause I also took TOEFL and-

    3. SK

      Yeah

    4. MM

      ... we partner with ETS for my other channel where I talk about learning English. And you're doing this $10,000 ... Is it a bachelor's degree? Uh, how long does it last?

    5. SK

      And this is g- going to the whole Job Shock thing. I think we need new systems of skilling people.

    6. MM

      Yeah.

    7. SK

      And, uh, this started with a, a conversation with Chris Anderson, who's the, the outgoing steward at TED, and I've taken on this new role as vision steward there. And the reason why he wanted me to take on this role, he says, "You know, we, we should do this, Sal. The, the future is all gonna be about human purpose, human meaning, and human connection." It's almost hard to focus on meaning and connection if you don't have a job.

    8. MM

      Totally.

    9. SK

      If you don't have a meaningful job, if you can't put food on the table. And so we've, we're launching, uh, we announced it at TED, Khan TED Institute. Our ... It's intended to be a accredited, we're pursuing accreditation. Uh, we're g- we're, we're likely to do both four years degree and master's degree, and the idea is it would be essentially three components. There will be an academic component. We still think, especially for the bachelor's, you should learn your history, your civics, your accounting, your, your statistics. Uh, but most of the program that makes it really differentiated, it will be online, but we're going to be putting students of all ages ... We've already gotten in the last two or three weeks, uh, 3,000 people interested in being students.

    10. MM

      Congratulations.

    11. SK

      And, and it's amazing. Most of them have bachelor's degrees. Many of them have master's degrees. And you can sense the fear that they have around-

    12. MM

      They need to re-qualify

    13. SK

      ... Exactly.

    14. MM

      Yeah.

    15. SK

      Being relevant.

    16. MM

      Yeah.

    17. SK

      And what we are going to be doing is putting people

  8. 25:20 – 29:28

    The 5 durable skills that matter in an AI world

    1. SK

      into Group simulations, projects, likely leveraging another platform we have Schoolhouse, or something similar where you're on Zoom, you're on a video conference together, you have four hours, you have to build a business, which means create a prototype, maybe make an ad, um, do the business plan, survey customers, whatever it might do, do, do competitive research. And then afterwards, the, the outcome of that, maybe other teams peer review you, but also you are going to review each other on your communication, your collaboration, your creativity, all of these things that we know really matter and we believe are going to matter, people are calling them durable skills now. They're going to matter even in an AI world. They might matter more in an AI world, how well you can sell and listen and, and form connections.

    2. MM

      How many are there, those durable skills? Can you name them?

    3. SK

      The, the ... Oh, the ETS framework? There's ... The main framework, there's, there's five. If ... Communication, collaboration, creativity, critical thinking. ETS has a whole framework around this, and then there's sub-frameworks. Like, oh, leadership is one of them.

    4. MM

      Mm-hmm.

    5. SK

      I think it was in leadership, is there evidence in that meeting that you had with the person? Did they seek out other people's opinions? In communication, were they able to build off of other people's thoughts as opposed to just talking past them? Things like that. And so you can imagine when you're in many, many sessions like this where you're doing real work that you would need to do in a, in an AI workplace. And a- as you know, we've launched this with initially six corporate partners, McKinsey, Bain, Google, Microsoft, Replit, and Accenture, and I expect we're gonna have many more in the next couple of months. We're, we're co-designing with them to say, like, "What are the types of work?"

    6. MM

      What do you need now? Yeah.

    7. SK

      Yeah. What do you expect people to be able to do-

    8. MM

      Mm-hmm

    9. SK

      ... next year? And it might change the year after. And we're gonna create those real simulations so that these, these people, not just, you know, not just young people, can have practice doing that, create portfolios and artifacts of doing that, but also start to surface these durable skills of communication, creativity, leadership, collaboration, et cetera. Um, but that's, that's what we're gonna do in the master's program and that's what we're gonna do in the bachelor's.

    10. MM

      Are those companies gonna be hiring, uh, graduates?

    11. SK

      You know, no, no one can commit-

    12. MM

      Mm-hmm

    13. SK

      ... that like, oh yes, when you have your first-

    14. MM

      Mm

    15. SK

      ... graduates in two years, we're definitely gonna hire 20 of them. But this is definitely designed, and they definitely ha- have a seat at the table because they too, just like Khan Academy, are reimagining how their roles change. They too are reimagining how they do interviews, and they are completely aligned that right now if you do an interview, I have a family member who's interviewing at a startup here in, in Silicon Valley, and she's in the third round, and she has to vibe code a solution for a hospital, and then they're gonna have a panel interview. That's where the way that interviews are going. But that's just one project that she's going to do. It's a little bit of an arbitrary one that this company just invented for her. And if she gets the job, awesome. If she doesn't get the job, it kinda just goes away-

    16. MM

      Yeah

    17. SK

      ... that, that, that artifact. What we're telling these employers is we're gonna make people do 20, 30, 40, 50 of these projects and get a re- and they're gonna be more rigorously designed, they're gonna have a ... The portfolios are actually going to be rated, and we're gonna get clear skills that ... You know, when you do interviews, how one interviewer does it versus another can be... But here you can get feedback from 50, 60, 70, 100 people.

    18. MM

      Interesting.

    19. SK

      Take-

    20. MM

      So they're gonna graduate with a, with a different type of resume basically.

    21. SK

      A very different resume. I m- imagine this. Someone today graduates from Stanford, pick your major, good major, with a 3.9 GPA. When I look at that resume I say, "Okay. Probably smart."

    22. MM

      Yeah.

    23. SK

      "Got into Stanford. Good GPA. I don't know if those skills they learned are gonna be directly transferable, but there's probably someone I can work with. Leadership skills? I don't know looking at their GPA. Maybe, oh yeah, okay, maybe they're the class vice president or if they were the co-captain of the lacrosse team."

    24. MM

      Mm-hmm.

    25. SK

      "Okay, maybe they have leadership skills. I don't know." Uh, but that's only, you're kinda reading-

    26. MM

      They're signals, not-

    27. SK

      Read-

    28. MM

      ... evaluation.

    29. SK

      Exactly.

    30. MM

      Mm-hmm.

  9. 29:28 – 31:36

    What happens to non-elite universities?

    1. SK

      our case to the employers, and I think they believe this, is you're gonna co-design these things. When we show you these different projects and simulations, you, Google, Microsoft, McKinsey, Bain, should say, "Oh yeah, wow, we wish we could do that with people in interviews," but you're able to do it and you're able to get that signal. And that when, if I were to show you here's a Stanford student with a 3.9 GPA, that's kinda the student that, say, a McKinsey would interview, top 10% graduate of Stanford. Here's another student from the Khan TED Institute who is in the top 10% of communication skills, collaboration skills, critical thinking skills. Here are the points of evidence. Here are video artifacts of them doing it. Our intent is that the employer says, "Oh yeah, we'll treat them at least as much of a priority-

    2. MM

      Mm

    3. SK

      ... as the top 10% from a, from an elite university."

    4. MM

      So you're comparing this to elite universities. What about other universities? Are they losing value in this new age?

    5. SK

      Yeah. And, and, and, and it's a good point because our intent isn't to just only tackle the, the very cream of students, only for these very aspirational employers. But there is an intention behind partnering with these aspirational employers because the, the higher education world is, is very polar in certain ways.

    6. MM

      Mm.

    7. SK

      On one extreme you have the elite institutions where some of these employers try to focus their recruiting. But they're super, um, inaccessible, very low capacity. Any of these elite universities, Harvard would tell you of the, I don't know how many students, 70, 80,000 students that must apply, 50,000 actually could handle Harvard, do well there, but they're only going to accept 2,000 of them.

    8. MM

      Yeah.

    9. SK

      And, you know, maybe some of those other students go to another good university, but a lot of them won't. And then they won't go to a place where Google or Bain or whoever might, might recruit. So we wanted to show ... And then the other extreme you have online programs. And online programs have been ... There's some good high quality ones, and I would say the good ones are places like Western Governors University or Southern New Hampshire University. Those are very good for the person who maybe didn't go down a traditional route, they need to complete their college degree in order to, to enter. But It, it's very seldom that those people are getting the same signal of the person who just graduated

  10. 31:36 – 37:45

    Should parents still save for college?

    1. SK

      from a, a, a well-known university, a well-known four-year program. So the reason why we wanted to at least show that Content Institute can be a pathway is to get rid of the stigma-

    2. MM

      Yeah

    3. SK

      ... around online. That you can actually create online that is highly interactive, highly human to human, and also creates a great signal. If you do very good, that, that is as good as any university. We also wanna be able to serve students that, yeah, maybe they're not gonna end up at, as a elite programmer at Google, but they can still create signals that they can get a great job at a regional firm or, or, or things like that comparable to still a very strong college degree at a top 50, uh, type, type of university. Uh, that's where we're starting. But then as we scale, I hope we can add more and more programs.

    4. MM

      Looking ahead, like let's look 10 years ahead. Should I be saving for my kids' college? Or you think higher education will be similar to what you're building, which is like $40,000 for four years versus 400,000 Stanford?

    5. SK

      Oh, [laughs] what, what, what we're building is maximum 10,000 for the degree.

    6. MM

      Oh, for the whole degree.

    7. SK

      For the whole degree.

    8. MM

      Not... Oh, okay.

    9. SK

      And I... And, and we said 10,000 to be careful.

    10. MM

      Mm-hmm.

    11. SK

      We actually intend for it to be a good bit less than that.

    12. MM

      Okay.

    13. SK

      But yes, it's for the whole degree. And also in terms of opportunity cost, because it's competency-based, it won't necessarily take four years.

    14. MM

      Mm-hmm.

    15. SK

      So you, you might be able to do it in two years, and then you get two more years of earning. And instead of $400,000, you spent $5,000 or whatever it might be to get your degree. My answer to your question, and we're facing this myself, my son is a junior in high school. He's gonna start applying to colleges. I, as a, as a father, and, and I think he wants this too, you know, I met my wife at MIT. A lot of my closest friends, you know, I s- I still have dreams about college on a regular basis, [laughs] forgetting to drop classes.

    16. MM

      It was a great time, right?

    17. SK

      It was a great time. It was a... But that is, I, I hate to say it this way, but it's a luxury experience. And as a parent, yes, I would love my children to have that. And I, and my son will be applying to schools like that, and I'm hoping he gets in so that we have the privilege of spending probably half a million dollars, uh, for him to go. But I think from that, he's gonna get great experiences, great friendships, hopefully some great skills. He'll lear- he'll have a coming of age experience. But I see, I could imagine he too might wanna still do Content Institute on top of his degree at whatever university he goes, because that might have a, have a, a more direct link to some of these job-ready skills. Content Institute, we plan on adapting much faster to wherever the tools are. A- and we are also seeing even a lot of kids at some of the top universities, they're dropping out right now because they're entrepreneurial.

    18. MM

      Yeah.

    19. SK

      And they see, wow, AI's changing so fast.

    20. MM

      Moving so fast. Yeah. Yeah.

    21. SK

      This is the window. If I don't get in now, who knows if capitalism exists in four years? [laughs] Much less, you know?

    22. MM

      Yeah.

    23. SK

      So I think for those types of students, this is going to be, uh, very interesting. And then the, the reality is most students who are going to college aren't getting to go and throw Frisbees on the quad and look at the ivy on the walls and, you know, and have Socratic discussion with world leaders. And they're going pretty transactionally to get a job. Um, they're going to commuter college. They're starting at their local community college. And so I see things like Content Institute or maybe Content Institute coupled with their local regional college or their local community college could be a very viable solution. One of the main reasons, you can get a great education at your local community college or at your local, um, y- let's say at the Cal State system here in California. You could get a great education at these places. But a lot of students who are high capable or high ambition might say, "Oh, well, I, I got a full ride at San Jose State, but um, I'm gonna get my family to pay half a million dollars to go to Stanford because I'm not gonna get, you know, McKinsey's not gonna recruit-

    24. MM

      Mm

    25. SK

      ... at San, at San Jose State." Now they could say, "Hey, I'm gonna go to San Jose State. I'm gonna get that full ride. It's gonna be free. And I'm also gonna do Content Institute."

    26. MM

      For 5K.

    27. SK

      For 5K.

    28. MM

      Yeah.

    29. SK

      And then I'm in, and then I'm in good shape. So your answer, to answer your question, if you're in a position to do so-

    30. MM

      Mm-hmm

  11. 37:45 – 39:06

    What can one person do today to stay relevant?

    1. MM

      That's what I'm seeing now, the trend.

    2. SK

      Exactly.

    3. MM

      It's more than 50% of queries, I think, is now coming from non-technical people.

    4. SK

      Exactly. So- My sense is even if we start seeing 4 or 5% unemployment in certain sectors in the next three or four years, that will be very painful.

    5. MM

      Mm.

    6. SK

      And the... I think it will start to affect our politics. It will affect, you know, h- just, just how we, how we think about things. So yeah, I don't think you're gonna see mass unemployment in the next three or four years, but I think you're gonna start seeing some of these pockets in three or four years. It's gonna be scary, and if we don't start d- And, and the AI is accelerating.

    7. MM

      Yeah.

    8. SK

      So if we don't, as industry, government, nonprofit sector, start having some solutions to scale at that point, we're gonna be in trouble.

    9. MM

      Okay, what can an individual person do today to not get replaced?

    10. SK

      I think the best, the most important skill is this people, you know, entrepreneurship, intrapreneurship, just being willing to try things out. Uh, the, the... Even for myself, I'm always preaching [laughs] this is that. Sometimes I'm like, "Oh, I heard about some, you know, I heard about OpenClaw and this and that." I'm like, "I should try it out." And I'm like, "Oh, well, it'd be a little bit..." But just getting over that activation energy and trying it out and fiddling with it and seeing if you can get it to do something. If you have that mindset, and y- you'll be fine.

    11. MM

      Mm-hmm.

    12. SK

      You, you're... And if you look at your

  12. 39:06 – 44:09

    The AI prompts that changed how they work

    1. SK

      different workflows that you have in your life personally or that you have at work, and you're like, "Let me see if I can take that output, and maybe initially I just have to copy and paste it and put it here, and then I can generate this. Oh, I find that I'm doing that a lot. Let me create an agent that can do that, or let me just instruct Claude Coworker or OpenClaw to do that. Oh, let me be careful. Let me put it in a separate device, or let me put it in a, in a sandbox someplace." But I think it's that very incremental. None of this stuff is rocket science, and you don't have to-

    2. MM

      And even easier, like Perplexity Computer is so easy-

    3. SK

      Yeah, exactly

    4. MM

      ... or like hyper agents.

    5. SK

      You, you just... But it, there is a little of an activation energy of saying, "Let me try to install it."

    6. MM

      Yeah.

    7. SK

      "Let me play around with it a little bit. Let me not be afraid to press some buttons and see what happens." You have to be careful sometimes. Uh, but I think anyone who has that mindset, um, I think is, is, is gonna be fine.

    8. MM

      Give them a prompt that has transformed how you work. I, I can... While you're thinking, I could give mine that was super transformational this week. I talked to my ChatGPT, and I said, "Give me top five things that I'm repetitively doing by analyzing my Gmail calendar, um, and whatever you have access to, and tell me what should I vibe code."

    9. SK

      Yeah. [laughs]

    10. MM

      And it came up with a really cool thing, like I'm repurposing a lot of content. So it's like, "Let's start repurposing your newsletter to your LinkedIn." I'm like, "Oh, thank you." Yeah, this is a manual process where I'm a manager communicating di- with different teams. I'm like, "This is such, such a cool prompt. I should run it every week or maybe every day, like an, as, as an agent."

    11. SK

      Yeah, you know, the ones that I f- like something I use, use the same prompt, I, I've... I mean, this is just, I've replaced r- what, like reading the news, and I just have a bunch of threads about the topics I'm interested in, and like at night I'm like, "What's the latest?" [laughs]

    12. MM

      Yeah.

    13. SK

      But one thing I've found, and I think this is important to build AI skills, I've been fascinated by what's going on in the Middle East and the Strait of Hormuz and the game of chicken and the gamesmanship that's going on there and how the market seems to be ignoring it [laughs] -

    14. MM

      Yeah

    15. SK

      ... ignoring the fact that we have $100 plus oil prices and, you know, $20 shipping rates, so it's essentially-

    16. MM

      I, I just saw $9 per gallon yesterday in, uh, near Atherton.

    17. SK

      Yeah. [laughs]

    18. MM

      I was like, "What?" [laughs]

    19. SK

      Wow, that's [laughs] they're the for- for- foreboding of the future. But, um, a lot of the times when I was asking like, "What about this? I think this is gonna happen," and we've all... Like, the AI's like, "Sal, you're a genius."

    20. MM

      Oh. [laughs]

    21. SK

      "You're spotting what other people aren't spotting."

    22. MM

      [laughs]

    23. SK

      And it is very seductive.

    24. MM

      Mm-hmm.

    25. SK

      'Cause sometimes it'll do it very... And, and so I have learned to say, "Be critical of me."

    26. MM

      Mm.

    27. SK

      Like really push back.

    28. MM

      Mm-hmm.

    29. SK

      And even then, sometimes it won't. Like it'll say, "You're so humble for wanting to be pushed back. Okay."

    30. MM

      If you were 22 today, MIT grad, what would you do differently?

Episode duration: 44:09

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