Silicon Valley GirlPay Rent, Get Rich? Indian-American Built a $3.1B Startup From That Idea | Ankur Jain, Bilt
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
30 min read · 5,803 words- 0:00 – 0:35
Intro
- MMMarina Mogilko
How can Bilt help me stop flying economy?
- AJAnkur Jain
The amount of money you spend on rent every single month is astonishing. [chuckles] With Bilt, anybody can sign up, set up their home to pay their rent, and start earning rewards. You can convert those into whatever your favorite airline or hotel programs are.
- MMMarina Mogilko
You work with-
- AJAnkur Jain
We work with British Airways and United Airlines and Alaska Airlines and Emirates and Hyatt and Hilton. I mean, people are using their Bilt points [chuckles] to cover their down payments.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Why do you think no one has done it before? [upbeat music] Ankur, thank you so much for doing
- 0:35 – 2:13
How to stop flying economy using Ankur’s app (and how it actually works)
- MMMarina Mogilko
this. You're-
- AJAnkur Jain
Thanks for coming by.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah, you're doing something super cool. Okay, tell me, how can Bilt help me stop flying economy? Can you explain the whole concept?
- AJAnkur Jain
I mean, look, the amount of money you spend on rent every single month, and historically you've gotten no rewards back, is astonishing. [chuckles] Um, and so five years ago, we set out to say, "Can paying your rent for the first time now earn you airline miles, hotel points? Can it build your credit history, and can it help you get closer to homeownership?" And so, honestly, like, flying business class is now as easy as just paying your rent. [chuckles]
- MMMarina Mogilko
Okay, tell me, so does it apply to everyone? 'Cause I'm renting from a, a person, right?
- AJAnkur Jain
Yes.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Would it work there, or it's just for corporate?
- AJAnkur Jain
No. So you can now, with Bilt, anybody can sign up, set up their home to pay their rent, and start earning rewards. At one in four apartment buildings in the US, we now actually run all payments for these properties so that all residents automatically are using Bilt to pay their rent and earn rewards. Uh, but even if you don't live at one of the properties that uses Bilt exclusively, you can sign up, register your home, and start earning.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Does my owner, the owner of the house, has... Does he have to give consent?
- AJAnkur Jain
The bill payer. So we have- so when we are the payers-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Uh, so you're gonna send him-
- AJAnkur Jain
That's exactly right
- MMMarina Mogilko
... just a wire?
- AJAnkur Jain
So when we're, uh... For the one in four apartments that use Bilt today, it's all seamless.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Mm.
- AJAnkur Jain
Like, you move in, you see your charges, you can pay with your check, debit card, credit card, bank ACH, all automatically, and you earn rewards.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Can you tell me... So my rent is $1,700
- 2:13 – 2:30
$7,900 monthly rent – how much do you earn in rewards?
- MMMarina Mogilko
a month.
- AJAnkur Jain
Yep.
- MMMarina Mogilko
How much can I earn?
- AJAnkur Jain
I mean, it depends how you pay, but if, you know, assume one X points per dollar, that's 7,800. It's expensive rent, by the way. [laughs]
- MMMarina Mogilko
I know.
- AJAnkur Jain
7,800 points.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughs] It's too cute. [laughs]
- AJAnkur Jain
[laughs] 7,800 points, you know, a month that you can now
- 2:30 – 3:36
Where can you spend your rewards
- AJAnkur Jain
use, and you can convert those into whatever your favorite airline or hotel programs are.
- MMMarina Mogilko
You work with all the-
- AJAnkur Jain
All the major ones. I mean, we work with British Airways and United Airlines and Alaska Airlines and Emirates and Hyatt and Hilton and Marriott-
- MMMarina Mogilko
So it's one-to-one transfer?
- AJAnkur Jain
All one-to-one transfer.
- MMMarina Mogilko
So just transfer-
- AJAnkur Jain
Or you can use your points, you know, to pay your next month's rent, or you can use your points towards a down payment when you're ready to buy a home, which is something we worked with the regulators on years ago to get done. Um, or even, like, by the way, just every day, you can take out your phone, call a Lyft ride, and right inside the Lyft app, you can pay with your points and get a free ride around the neighborhood.
- MMMarina Mogilko
And that's through the app? So if I'm renting from someone, I would log in to Bilt app, and it will show me all the local-
- AJAnkur Jain
Yeah, you get your neighborhood benefits, and it's... You get it through the app, but we also- it also happens seamlessly. Like, if you walk around, I mean, any major city in the US, like, uh, you've probably seen it in San Francisco. Like, you know, we have pharmacy partnerships with 8,000 locations, including all of Walgreens, right? Maybe it's your local gym. So if you go to your local SoulCycle, you get complimentary rental shoes and water in addition to extra points. [chuckles]
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- AJAnkur Jain
Uh, you go to your local Barry's, you get a complimentary smoothie.
- MMMarina Mogilko
How
- 3:36 – 4:08
How rewards convert to real dollars
- MMMarina Mogilko
do points convert to dollars? If it's 8,000 points, how many dollars if it's, like, Chase, or how does it work?
- AJAnkur Jain
Like, depend- again, so it's like Chase or Amex. It depends on the merchant or any other airline. Like, same with your United Airlines points or whatever, some tickets, it's worth more-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Okay, so-
- AJAnkur Jain
... some tickets, it's worth less.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Okay, got it.
- AJAnkur Jain
Right?
- MMMarina Mogilko
Mm-hmm. [chuckles]
- AJAnkur Jain
So it all really depends on what the merchant is accepting them at at that point. But if you look at these rankings, like, the average value that we are kind of estimated at across the board is about 2.2 cents a point. That's a lot of opportunity there.
- MMMarina Mogilko
That- and that's how you do it,
- 4:08 – 5:20
Why no one has done this before
- MMMarina Mogilko
right?
- AJAnkur Jain
It's really that simple.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Why do you think no one has done it before?
- AJAnkur Jain
I mean, trying to drive... This is an- it's an interesting, first of all, problem to drive [chuckles] any new adoption in legacy industries, right? I mean, these bus- these industries are not known for change. [chuckles]
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- AJAnkur Jain
Right? Um, as you know, most people that still own a checkbook, it's because their properties require you to pay by check still.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah, I know.
- AJAnkur Jain
Right? So getting traditional industries to do something new is always tough. You have a challenge of a network problem. To make this valuable for everybody, you have to have the property managers, you have to have rewards, and you have to have merchants. [chuckles]
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- AJAnkur Jain
Right? Problem is, if you talk to the rewards partners, they go, "How many properties you got?" [chuckles] You talk to the property managers, they go, "What are your rewards?" [chuckles] You go to the merchant, they say, "Well, show me the buildings near you."
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- AJAnkur Jain
And you have this exactly, this cold-start chicken-and-egg problem. And so we spent two years literally pitching and pitching and pitching. Like, I was going to, like, literally New York landlords pitching, like, "Hey, we have this idea for a rewards program that will take payments and turn it into rewards for on-time payments with your customers." When everybody looked at me, they're like, "Great idea. Come back when everybody else is- [laughs] is doing it."
- 5:20 – 6:18
How COVID shaped his startup journey
- AJAnkur Jain
And then honestly, like, in any startup, you gotta have the right idea, but you gotta get lucky. And there was this weird moment in time. It was obviously a scary time, right? Like, but COVID happened in March 2020, and the world broke. And all of a sudden, I started getting these calls back from property managers saying: Are you still working on that rewards program? Like, we're trying to figure out how to drive leasing and get people back into our apartment buildings. And suddenly, airlines were calling back saying: Hey, we're not sure if people are gonna fly again, [chuckles] but if they do, we- it's probably young people, not our typical business travel. And businesses, if you're a local business, everyone's locked up at home. [chuckles] The only way to drive sales was to reach people in their home.... And so, like, in this weird moment in time, we had this, like, spark [chuckles] where the first couple people in each stakeholder group started coming together, and then the flywheel just-
- 6:18 – 7:18
The ultimate entrepreneurship guide
- MMMarina Mogilko
When Ankur started Bilt in 2018, no one could really predict how it would reshape the rental market. Now, his company's valued at $3.1 billion. How crazy is that? And if you're watching and you're like, "I want to start my own business, I want to work on my crazy idea," I can highly recommend an ultimate entrepreneurship guide from HubSpot that can help you with that. They're gonna walk you through finding the right business idea, evaluating it, coming up with a business plan. They have all kinds of templates that you're gonna need: professional email templates, calculators to see how much money you need at the beginning, how much will you need further on. If you don't have a co-founder, they have solopreneur tips. They have some project management templates, so everything you need to start working on your idea right now. Now it's your turn to stop dreaming and start building. Your entrepreneurial journey starts today, and it's completely free. Download the ultimate entrepreneurship kit using the link down below, and let's get back to our conversation with Ankur.
- 7:18 – 7:50
2 years of hearing no
- MMMarina Mogilko
But you had those two years when you just heard, "No, and no, and no."
- AJAnkur Jain
We just kept trying, [chuckles] and trying, and trying, and trying. P- we just kept coming up with, like... I mean, I'll tell you, like, when we first tried to get this off the ground, we said, "Okay, well, airlines aren't playing ball. Maybe there's a different way to create rewards." And so we said, "When you pay your rent on time, what if we could reward you by building your credit and by helping you get closer to homeownership?" Right? Like, that seems like an obvious-
- MMMarina Mogilko
How does that work?
- AJAnkur Jain
Well, you pay your rent. When you came, what year did you move here?
- MMMarina Mogilko
2015.
- AJAnkur Jain
So I don't know if you
- 7:50 – 10:16
He spent 18 months in Washington DC changing regulations from within
- AJAnkur Jain
remember this, like, you probably had to go build your credit history. [chuckles]
- MMMarina Mogilko
Oh, yeah, no one would give us a rental.
- AJAnkur Jain
Isn't it crazy?
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- AJAnkur Jain
They're like, "Oh, you need credit history to get access to credit, but you can only build your credit history by getting credit." [chuckles]
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah-
- AJAnkur Jain
[chuckles] Just does-
- MMMarina Mogilko
... and so there were only a few apartment buildings that was- that would give us an apartment.
- AJAnkur Jain
Right. It's just mind-boggling. And so we said, "Well, if you're paying your rent on time every month, why doesn't that build your credit history?" Like, it doesn't make sense.
- MMMarina Mogilko
But you have to connect with those credit agencies, right?
- AJAnkur Jain
Exactly, and they had to accept it, and then to use it for a mortgage, the mortgage lenders and the Fannies and the Freddies have to say that that's an eligible source of data to qualify you. So sh- we thought this was like, "What a great idea, paying your rent, and by the way, you can earn credits that you can use to cover a down payment." We then find out that the regulations didn't just specifically allow this. [chuckles]
- MMMarina Mogilko
Of course, yeah.
- AJAnkur Jain
Which is, like, also mind-boggling. So we spent i- and I thought, "Well, if I figure this out, this is gonna be the key that gets properties to sign up." So we spent 18 months in Washington DC, talking to the housing department, the Mor- Fannie Maes, the Freddie Macs, the lenders, the credit agencies, saying, "Guys, paying your rent is the biggest expense for this generation. Why is it not helping them move forward?" And it wasn't until October of 2019, but we got the approvals. And for the first time, you know, you could now build your credit by paying your rent on time, use rewards towards a future down payment, and use... the mortgage lender could use your rental history to help you qualify.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Only if you pay through Bilt, though.
- AJAnkur Jain
Well, we offered this as a service. I mean, uh, we- it wasn't a Bilt-specific thing. It was a regulatory update, right?
- MMMarina Mogilko
Oh, so now everyone who pays rent-
- AJAnkur Jain
Well, no, companies can now provide this service, and so we went out and used that opportunity to start bringing that as part of our benefits-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Part of the perk
- AJAnkur Jain
... for Bilt. Um, and it's funny because, you know, when I first took it back, everyone goes, "Oh, that's so wonderful, but do I get airline miles?" [chuckles] And I'm like, "I spent 18 months on this." But no, fast-forward to today, you know, we're now the largest reporter of on-time rent payments to the credit bureaus, with millions of people building their credit history by paying their rent every month. We have people buying homes that they now qualify for because of their rental history with Bilt, um, and people using their Bilt points [chuckles] to cover their down payment.
- 10:16 – 11:12
Entrepreneurial mindset – prepare for everything to go wrong
- MMMarina Mogilko
Okay, I need to understand your entrepreneurial mindset. Because if somebody gives me the problem you just described, I would be like... I won't be able to solve it. Like, it's been around for tens of years, and-
- AJAnkur Jain
Yeah. [clears throat] Okay, so my goal by the end of this interview is to convince Marina to move to New York.
- MMMarina Mogilko
[chuckles]
- AJAnkur Jain
So I, I lived in Silicon Valley for a long time, and honestly, like, growing up, the Silicon Valley dream was one of the most exciting... It's like, everybody, you go there and work on big, hard problems to try to create real impact and create amazing businesses around it. Somewhere along the lines, and I, I feel like we lost that why. Like, why do people do things? And I remember it was 2017. I had sold my first startup to IAC, and as part of that acquisition, I had- I stayed on to help run, uh, one of the products they own called Tinder.
- 11:12 – 12:34
What happened to solving big problems?
- AJAnkur Jain
I was their product head there for two years, and it was an amazing experience, but, like, at the end of it, you know, first of all, there's only [chuckles] so much, uh, fulfillment you can get optimizing swipe right, swipe left, right? [chuckles] And I was thinking about what I wanted to do next, and I was in San Francisco, and it's 2017. This is the era of, like, Bird scooters raising all this money, and this and that, and I... There was a juice press company-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yes
- AJAnkur Jain
... that had raised, like, hundreds of millions-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Juice Barrel
- AJAnkur Jain
... of dollars.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- AJAnkur Jain
And I was sitting with this venture capitalist who was pitching me on some idea. He's like, "So Ankur, you gotta come look at this business. It's gonna change the world. It's a perfect next opportunity for you." I was like, "Okay, tell me more." [chuckles] "Like, we're thinking about putting $100 million in it, and it's unbelievable. They've figured out how to create non-replicable goods like Prada bags on the blockchain."
- MMMarina Mogilko
... Oh, like authentication?
- AJAnkur Jain
Oh, like-
- MMMarina Mogilko
I think-
- AJAnkur Jain
No, it, it's some stupid NFT, like, thing.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Ah.
- AJAnkur Jain
Whatever.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Got it.
- AJAnkur Jain
Like, my point was, what happened to solving big problems in the world? And I walked... I remember I walked out of this hotel, and it was, like, literally out of a, like, a TV show. I walked out on Market Street, and in the middle of Market Street, there was a naked homeless person humping one of these Bird scooters right after they [chuckles] had raised $200 million. And I'm thinking to myself, "You
- 12:34 – 13:20
Housing crisis, mental health – why the government doesn’t fix it
- AJAnkur Jain
have one of the worst housing crises, one of the worst healthcare crises in the world. You have a mental health issue in your own backyard, and you're pitching change the world digital Prada NFTs?"
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah, but I think the mindset is the government has to solve it, not the-
- AJAnkur Jain
Silicon Valley has never been about the government solving problems. Silicon Valley has always been, "We will solve problems," um, and more recently it's been like, "Can we work with the government?" But don't forget, Silicon Valley for decades has been the one pioneering the solutions and innovations to problems, not waiting for government. I mean, I think that's what made Silicon Valley so special. Um, and so look, I... You know, that was that... That was kind of the final straw that broke the camel's back. It was like, there's just too much echo chamber around these buzzwords, where people stopped
- 13:20 – 13:49
Founders don’t want to solve problems anymore
- AJAnkur Jain
asking, "What is the problem you're solving?" And they started focusing on, "What's the hot, new buzzword that venture capitalists will fund? Because if I want to raise money for my startup..." Like, it was chatbot, then it was NFT, and then it was crypto-
- MMMarina Mogilko
I remember all of that, yeah.
- AJAnkur Jain
... and then it was VR and metaverse, and now it's like everything is an AI everything. And so like, you know, I think we just lost that original spirit of-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Mm.
- AJAnkur Jain
-like, it's not what, it's why. [chuckles] Um-
- 13:49 – 15:34
His mindset for building a $3.1B company
- MMMarina Mogilko
But, like, how do you... What, what is your mindset like? "Yeah, I'm the one to change this. I'm the one to talk to the government, to change the regulations." Where does this come from? Is that how you were brought up?
- AJAnkur Jain
I mean, I think that is more of, like, you just have to figure some- You start with a simple why, and you figure it out as you go, and I think all of us that are... And you're an entrepreneur. You've been through this. Like, you sometimes just... You're so committed to wanting to fix it [chuckles] that you don't even realize how absurd some of the things you s- [chuckles] you're trying to do are until after the fact, when somebody else points it out. Um, which is probably a good thing that we're so delusional. [chuckles] Um-
- MMMarina Mogilko
How many times did you want to give up?
- AJAnkur Jain
I don't think about giving up. It's like, that's not... When you wake up every day, it's the most fun- [chuckles]
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah, but like-
- AJAnkur Jain
-experience, like-
- MMMarina Mogilko
... confronting people in the industry, like, who are telling you that it's impossible.
- AJAnkur Jain
That's literally what everybody's... Everybody hates- everybody loves to say no, and I just like, my mindset, and I'm sure you are the same, right? It's like, no just means ask again differently [chuckles] sometimes, right? You just gotta like... They're, like, not getting it. You're not... I'm not doing a good job of explaining the opportunity. It's that, or, you know, how can I make this a win-win for them and for me? And that's part of it. You have to just keep, keep iterating and keep iterating until it is a no-brainer.
- MMMarina Mogilko
So never wanted to give up? You were just, like, laser focused.
- AJAnkur Jain
Giving up on what? Like, the big vision and purpose of what you want to do? Like, I don't believe in setting goals that are like, "Have to hit X number of users or X, you know, million of revenue by this date," as, like, your primary North Star. 'Cause it's really, like... It's not a very exciting, fulfilling metric, [chuckles] right?
- MMMarina Mogilko
But how do you set goals, then?
- AJAnkur Jain
What is the problem you're solving? Like, I see a user problem I want to solve, and we just obsess over that.
- 15:34 – 17:37
The problem with raising money in Silicon Valley
- MMMarina Mogilko
So you never gave yourself, like, a timeline, like, "Okay, if, if I can't fix it in two years, then probably that's it?"
- AJAnkur Jain
This is the problem in the Valley when you raise venture capital. I'm, I'm so, such a believer... Like, you can bring in venture capital at a time when your business is already figured out, and now you're just- it's just cheap growth capital. [chuckles] But until then, you really only want to either try to finance it with people you know, that you trust, or more importantly, commercial partners. 'Cause commercial partners are aligned in solving the problem, 'cause it- they care more about you solving their [chuckles] business issue than the return on the investment. And then eventually, the investment ho- hopefully becomes even more, right? That h- that gives you, as a founder, also the freedom to invest in getting it right. 'Cause the minute you raise venture money, these venture capitalists have a completely misaligned goal than you do. Their goals are, "How do I drive as fast of growth as possible in as short a period of time as possible to raise another round at a markup, so that I can go tell my LPs that my investment is now worth on paper more?" [chuckles]
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- AJAnkur Jain
Right? And as a founder, that's not always the best thing. Like, it took us four years to launch Bilt, right? We didn't launch... We started working on it in 2018. We didn't launch in market until 2022.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Have you raised money during that time?
- AJAnkur Jain
I mean, I self-funded the first part. I was very lucky to be able to do that. But then we were, you know, in it, we brought in, uh, our first commercial partners, so we brought in real estate owners. And we said, "Hey," once we got that first, like, click, [chuckles] we said, "Hey, why don't you invest in the company and own a part of this, and we can build this together?"
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- AJAnkur Jain
And, you know, that just further cemented our presence in the space. Um, but look, I think it's also, like, look, you're an immigrant. Like, part of this is you're opening... You gotta if you come from an immigrant family, like, you gotta survive. [chuckles]
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah. What was special about your upbringing, you think,
- 17:37 – 19:43
His upbringing: his parents’ American dream
- MMMarina Mogilko
that made you, made you-
- AJAnkur Jain
I'm so curious, and I, I'm gonna have to pick your brain on your immigrant story here, but, like, I mean, my parents came here with, you know, typical, like, American Dream story. They came here with nothing. My dad grew up in a dirt-poor village in India. My mom was born in India but grew up in Jerusalem while her father was in the peacekeeping force, right? And so when they came to the US, like, they didn't have any money, and so they were hustling around for a job, like, working their way, like, day and night. They met in New Jersey-... got married in California. They moved to California, where they got married, and they were still living in an apartment with another couple 'cause they couldn't afford their own place.
- MMMarina Mogilko
We had the same story [laughs] -
- AJAnkur Jain
Right?
- MMMarina Mogilko
- we were sharing an apartment with someone.
- AJAnkur Jain
But that's like the st- and you just like, you just... But you're so committed to creating a better life for yourself and for your kids, and you just do it. And so [chuckles] it's funny, like, they were living in this apartment, and my dad was- they had just got married, and he was thinking about, "How in the world am I going to afford a honeymoon? [laughs] I can barely afford to pay rent."
- MMMarina Mogilko
Well, California is a honeymoon. [laughs]
- AJAnkur Jain
Well, yes. [laughs]
- MMMarina Mogilko
Just that.
- AJAnkur Jain
Like I said, give me till the end of the show, she'll be in New York. [laughing] Um, but we, we like... So they, so they were- they were living in California. He's trying to afford a honeymoon, and he came up with this hilarious idea. He goes, "If I send my job resume to twenty companies in different cities, maybe one of them will fly me out for an interview." [laughs]
- MMMarina Mogilko
Oh, genius. Genius.
- AJAnkur Jain
"And then I can get free flights." And so he sent it to all these different companies, and this little startup in Seattle called Microsoft [chuckles] goes- called him up for an interview. So he goes to my mom and says, "Hey, hey, honey, like, why don't we do our honeymoon in Seattle?" [laughs] She's like, "Why?" And, um, the rest is kind of history. He ended up working at Microsoft, starting to, like, build... They bought their first home, you know, when I was born, and we were still, like, deep, deep, deep- [chuckles]
- MMMarina Mogilko
Good that they could-
- AJAnkur Jain
- rural suburbs
- MMMarina Mogilko
... buy a home.
- AJAnkur Jain
Yeah, I mean, it was-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Most people can't do it now. [chuckles]
- AJAnkur Jain
It's- that was tough. I mean, that was their first big break. Um, and I remember, like, you know, we lived a pretty
- 19:43 – 23:35
Startup life as a kid – growing up in an innovation environment
- AJAnkur Jain
normal life. And then when I was five or six, my dad comes home one day, and he's sitting with my mom, and I re- I remember this. They started... It was one of the few times they started fighting like this. They were like- he's like: "I think I'm gonna quit the job, my job, and try to start something." And, you know, my mom was like: "We just spent our whole life trying to get to a stable place, [chuckles] and you wanna quit?" [laughs] Like, um, and, you know, at the end of it, she said, "Okay, I support you."
- MMMarina Mogilko
Do you remember that conversation?
- AJAnkur Jain
Yeah, it was not a, it was not a pleasant conversation. I remember. I was five or six. It was very- [chuckles]
- MMMarina Mogilko
Wow!
- AJAnkur Jain
And, um, anyways, he went off, and he started a new company, which obvi- you know, then became one of the internet's biggest thing. And I just, every day after school, like... 'cause my mom worked with my dad at the startup, too, right? And so every day after school, my brother, and my sister, and I, we'd get dropped off from school to the office, [chuckles] and we would just sit at the office till, like, pretty late night, and then we'd go home. And like, I would- he had a video game system for us at the office. I would do my homework. We'd play games, and I'd sit in meetings. [chuckles] And you just-
- MMMarina Mogilko
So you saw your parents working every single day?
- AJAnkur Jain
- and you just literally watched them build these businesses from the ground up. Um, it's funny, like, my dad and I recently started doing a lot of, you know, interviews together 'cause it's kind of been a fun, now that I've had a chance to do my- you know, build my own businesses and whatever, and i- it's... People often ask, they're like: "Well, did you ever feel..." To him, they say: "Do you ever feel guilty, you know, figuring out how to balance your work life and personal life?" And he- his response, I always kind of stuck with me. He goes: "You know, when you think about it, if you have a kid at home, and you think that you're just coming home, you've been successful, you're hanging out on the couch, hanging out with them, you think you're getting quality time in. What the kid sees is, 'Oh, we live a really comfortable life, and it's because my dad sits at home and watches TV and hangs out with me all day.' [chuckles] And you wonder why sometimes, like, these kids of these successful parents, like, don't have that same drive and hustle. Well, they grew up thinking you get that lifestyle by sitting [chuckles] at home, hanging out, and there's actually some value in them seeing the hard work and the grit it takes."
- MMMarina Mogilko
Interesting, but, like, I, I wonder, w- you, you didn't have time for extracurriculars then. Well, your parents didn't have time to drive you around.
- AJAnkur Jain
Look, it was a startup, so everybody was pitching in, right? And, like, like, my mom would drive us to, like, these... So after school, if we, if we did have, like, a sport, and this is when I was younger, so it wasn't like the same, you know, high school sports or anything, right? But, like, we're all, you know, seven, eight, nine, so you do summer camps and stuff, but, like, during the school year, you didn't have, like, an after-school, like, you know, school team, so you would do, like, the occasional, like, you know, seasonal tournaments and then... But, yeah, those years was crazy. [chuckles]
- MMMarina Mogilko
What would be your advice to new parents on how to-
- AJAnkur Jain
How old are your kids now?
- MMMarina Mogilko
Five and three.
- AJAnkur Jain
Okay, so you bring them along with you ever?
- MMMarina Mogilko
Sometimes, yeah. They went, uh, to One Billion Forward summit in Dubai with me.
- AJAnkur Jain
Amazing.
- MMMarina Mogilko
But they, they don't like it. They're like, they hate when somebody takes pictures with me.
- AJAnkur Jain
[chuckles]
- MMMarina Mogilko
They just start crying, "This is my mommy." And they're like- and all the transatlantic flights for them, well-
- AJAnkur Jain
Well, now you can use your Bilt points to fly them business class, so they'll love.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah, I, I'm using Amex points right now. [laughs] Yeah, Bilt is, yeah.
- AJAnkur Jain
Um, I, I think, look, I was... I used to complain, too, sometimes. I'd go with my dad to all these meetings, and I'd be like: "I just wanna go hang out with my friends."
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah.
- AJAnkur Jain
But honestly, it's such a good experience, and you gotta have both, right? You gotta... I think, you know, there's a way to have both. Like, that, that is a priceless for- your kids are so fortunate to have parents who are doing so well and get to see the world and expose them to it, and I think it's amazing. So I think that's-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Okay, 'cause I t- I feel very guilty, especially now. Like, I left them at home, came here for four days. They were crying like crazy yesterday.
- AJAnkur Jain
Bring them to New York. I mean, they're gonna live here soon anyways, so...
- MMMarina Mogilko
Why? [laughing]
- AJAnkur Jain
[laughing]
- MMMarina Mogilko
Okay,
- 23:35 – 26:07
Why NYC beats Silicon Valley for startups
- MMMarina Mogilko
let's wrap our conversation with the New York ma- why do you think so? I feel like, you know, nature in California, Stanford is 15 minutes away from home, so, you know, we go there all the time.
- AJAnkur Jain
Yeah.
- MMMarina Mogilko
It's, it's a different script.
- AJAnkur Jain
My, my brother and sister are both Stanford, and they both live now in New York. So what I'll say-
- MMMarina Mogilko
They have kids?
- AJAnkur Jain
Uh, no, they don't have kids yet. Um-
- MMMarina Mogilko
I think that's the game changer.
- AJAnkur Jain
Yeah. Totally hear you. I, I think, look, you... My belief is, is, is it's so important to be surrounded by, one, different pe- types of people.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Mm.
- AJAnkur Jain
Right? And so what I love about New York is you have, every day, the best-... talent in every industry out there. You're sitting at dinner, you're talking to people who are in fashion, who are in media, who are in real estate-
- MMMarina Mogilko
One hundred percent, yeah
- AJAnkur Jain
-who are in technology, who are in finance, who come from, like, so many different backgrounds. And that- I think that's important 'cause it gives you a much better sense [chuckles] of like-- and New York is own bubble, too, don't get me wrong. Like, it's still not, you know, it's a bubble, but you get such a sense of, like, how different people think and different needs. And I think the challenge when you're in a place like Silicon Valley is it's so homogenous these days, that you go to dinner, and every day it's like: "Well, what YC company did you talk to? Who's your VC?" It's like it's a total distortion of reality. And then even worse, I think when you're a founder, you lose track of who you're solving the problem for. I mean, this is how you end up with bird scooters and juice presses for seven hundred dollars, [chuckles] because you're constantly comparing your ideas to these twenty other startups, and you forget that your customer in Dallas has never used any of them, right? [chuckles] And so you're like: "Well, that startup does this, so we do this a little differently. And their startup does this, we do this a little differently." And meanwhile, the customer in Dallas is still just trying to figure out what the first product is because it hasn't gotten to that market yet. And so that, that's so important to stake. And by the way, the same thing is true for Washington DC with politics, it's a homogenous town, right? You have some of that in LA with entertainment, right? And so just like, how can you be in a city that brings different worlds together? Um, which I feel like you seem like you're into the fashion world, you seem like you're in the tech world. Like, it's gotta be tough. Like, San Francisco is not exactly the best fashion place. [chuckles]
- MMMarina Mogilko
Yeah, I know.
- AJAnkur Jain
[laughing]
- MMMarina Mogilko
I know. I'm always overdressed. [chuckles]
- AJAnkur Jain
But, like, not in New York.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Not in New York, yeah.
- AJAnkur Jain
Um-
- MMMarina Mogilko
That's
- 26:07 – 28:13
Starting a company? 2 things you must know
- MMMarina Mogilko
awesome. My last question would be: Can you give advice to someone who's starting a company in a space that's highly regulated, hasn't changed in a while, like a healthcare startup, and they just-- they've tried so many things, and they're about to give up, like, how to keep going?
- AJAnkur Jain
I mean, first of all, like, startups are hard and painful, so you have to just expect and accept [chuckles] that that's part of the journey. And there's not a single successful generationally changing company that did not have to go through the most painful experience, right? And I think, you know, like Jensen from NVIDIA talks about this a lot, like, you have to be willing and accept that eating glass [chuckles] is just part of the process. So that's number one. But two is, if you, if you remember on the why, right? Like, there's a hundred different ways to solve the problem. And so if you're focused on the why, you're never gonna be hung up on whether the current solution is the right answer or not, 'cause it's just one of a hundred different ways you can solve it.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Mm.
- AJAnkur Jain
And if you have that mindset, then you're much more free to pivot and iterate and adapt. And I think people-- it's hard because you sometimes get so hung up on the specific way you're looking to solve something, that if it stops working, like, you keep trying to bang your head against the same wall. [chuckles]
- MMMarina Mogilko
I love that.
- AJAnkur Jain
And you just gotta say, "Wait a second. Like, take a step back. Is the, is the product really what I'm trying to build, or am I re-- is there a better way to solve the actual why, the problem?" And if you're willing to do that, stepping back... And someone said to me, like, there's a, I think it was Churchill, was it? That was, like, this great quote, that he goes, something along the lines of: "You have to be totally, totally committed and yet completely willing to change." [chuckles]
- MMMarina Mogilko
Mm.
- AJAnkur Jain
Right? And-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Committed to the idea, but willing to change the path-
- AJAnkur Jain
Correct
- MMMarina Mogilko
-together. I love it.
- AJAnkur Jain
Um-
- MMMarina Mogilko
Thank you so much
- AJAnkur Jain
... anyways, thank you for coming by.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Thank you so much. Very impressive, and, uh, you've been to St. Petersburg, my new house?
- AJAnkur Jain
I have, I have, and I want to go back.
- MMMarina Mogilko
It's-- hopefully, you can go back soon.
- AJAnkur Jain
I would love to.
- MMMarina Mogilko
That's amazing. Thank you so much, Ankur.
- AJAnkur Jain
Thanks for coming by.
- MMMarina Mogilko
Very inspiring. Awesome.
Episode duration: 28:13
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