Skip to content
Simon SinekSimon Sinek

Ask Yourself "What If?" with Milk Bar Founder Christina Tosi | A Bit of Optimism Podcast

What if this podcast turned into a baking show? For Christina Tosi’s third visit to A Bit of Optimism, we decided to find out. So we headed to Milk Bar to make compost cookies from things in my own pantry and my favorite beer bread from scratch! Christina’s not just my best friend—she’s the founder of Milk Bar, host of "Bake Squad" on Netflix, a cookbook author, and a fan favorite on this podcast. She lives by one simple question: what if? In this experimental episode, we dug into some big ideas about creativity, uncertainty, and the magic of trying something new. Recipes below! For more on Christina and her work, check out: http://christinatosi.com/ --------------------------- Simon's Compost Cookie Recipe (makes 15-20 cookies): 16 tablespoons unsalted butter, room temperature 1 cup granulated sugar 2/3 cup tightly packed light brown sugar 2 tablespoons glucose syrup 1 large egg 1/2 teaspoon vanilla extract 1 1/3 cups all-purpose flour 1/2 teaspoon baking powder 1/4 teaspoon baking soda 1 teaspoon kosher salt Maltesers 85% dark chocolate Optimism Coffee grounds Granola Space/Astronaut Ice Cream Kettle Corn Pop Chips For the full step-by-step recipe, visit Milk Bar's website: https://milkbarstore.com/blogs/recipes/compost-cookie-new?srsltid=AfmBOoq3Xn896zypVDfdBRaoxfyMcdfdyA... Beer Bread Recipe: 3 cups self-rising flour 1 teaspoon kosher salt 4 tablespoons honey (or to taste) 12 oz beer (Samual Smith's Organic Chocolate Stout is Simon's preference!) 2 tablespoons butter (and save a little for the top) Mix ingredients slowly together Bake at 350 for 45-60 mins until baked through --------------------------- This episode is brought to you by True Classic! I really love their T-shirts, so we called them up and asked if they wanted to work together. And they said yes! Check out their clothes at: http://trueclassictees.com/ + + + Simon is an unshakable optimist. He believes in a bright future and our ability to build it together. Described as “a visionary thinker with a rare intellect,” Simon has devoted his professional life to help advance a vision of the world that does not yet exist; a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired, feel safe wherever they are and end the day fulfilled by the work that they do. Simon is the author of multiple best-selling books including Start With Why, Leaders Eat Last, Together is Better, and The Infinite Game. + + + Website: http://simonsinek.com/ Live Online Classes: https://simonsinek.com/classes/ Podcast: http://apple.co/simonsinek Instagram: https://instagram.com/simonsinek/ Linkedin: https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/simonsinek Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek Simon’s books: The Infinite Game: https://simonsinek.com/books/the-infinite-game/ Start With Why: https://simonsinek.com/books/start-with-why/ Find Your Why: https://simonsinek.com/books/find-your-why/ Leaders Eat Last: https://simonsinek.com/books/leaders-eat-last/ Together is Better: https://simonsinek.com/books/together-is-better/ + + + #SimonSinek

Simon SinekhostChristina Tosiguest
Jun 3, 202551mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 0:25

    A pantry surprise sets the tone: “What if?” baking

    1. SS

      This will tell you the most-

    2. CT

      My rent, rent box

    3. SS

      ... this will tell you the biggest thing about me, and this is, what's funny about this is I always have this in my pantry, always. Space ice cream, always. There's always a space ice cream in my freezer.

    4. CT

      I love you so much for that.

    5. SS

      Yeah.

    6. CT

      This is-

    7. SS

      That's-

    8. CT

      ... 100% going, like-

    9. SS

      Yeah

    10. CT

      ... over my dead body is this not going into your compost cookie.

    11. SS

      I don't know how that will bake.

    12. CT

      Me neither, but we're gonna find out.

    13. SS

      But I guess-

    14. CT

      Well, hey, what if?

  2. 0:25 – 3:18

    Simon’s Milk Bar origin story and the experiment premise

    1. SS

      What if? [upbeat music] So a bazillion years ago I went for dinner in New York City at a place called Sambar, which was a David Chang restaurant, and in the back they had a little thing called Milk Bar, which was their, basically the dessert place for the restaurant. Well, I fell in love with one of the desserts called Cereal Milk Ice Cream, and yes, it is the most nostalgic ice cream you could ever eat. It tastes exactly like the milk from the cereal bowl from when we were kids, that sweet milk that we would drink. Little did I know that the founder and owner of Milk Bar would later become one of my closest, closest friends, Christina Tosi. Christina Tosi has gone on to have wild success. We can all buy Milk Bar products in our local supermarkets. You can see her on Netflix in her TV show. She's got multiple cookbooks out, including this one. But best of all, Christina is the most wonderful baker because she bakes with love. It is her love language. Because Christina was in my hometown this week, we thought we would do something different. We would do an experiment, and if there's one thing Christina and I both love, it's the unknown. So that's exactly what we did. We did something we've never done. It could succeed, it could fail, you'll let us [laughs] know. But no matter what, I know one thing will happen: You will learn how to make a compost cookie, and you will learn how to make the tastiest beer bread of your life. This is A Bit of Optimism. This episode is brought to you by True Classic. The way they became our sponsor is because I loved their T-shirts, and so we just called them up and asked them if they wanted to work together, and they said yes. So check out their clothes at trueclassic.com. [upbeat music] So this is, this is a thrill for me personally because you were my first guest on A Bit of Optimism-

    2. CT

      Oh

    3. SS

      ... during lockdown. You and I have done this a, I think two or three more times. Uh, we-

    4. CT

      Bake? 'Cause we've baked-

    5. SS

      But we-

    6. CT

      ... a zillion times

    7. SS

      ... but, but, but I thought you were in LA. How much fun would it be that we actually bake together? You, you and I have never... That's not true, we have baked together.

    8. CT

      [laughs] I was like-

    9. SS

      No, that's true

    10. CT

      ... every time I come over, well, it's less about baking-

    11. SS

      No, it's more about baking

    12. CT

      ... and more Simon has an idea-

    13. SS

      No, no, no

    14. CT

      ... that involves food.

    15. SS

      It's about introversion. It's about introversion.

    16. CT

      That's right.

    17. SS

      'Cause I went to a dinner party at your house, and there were lots of people who were all outside being entertained by your front of house husband, and, uh, and you disappeared into the kitchen, your happy place so you don't have to talk to people. Turns out I was very close behind you-

    18. CT

      [laughs]

    19. SS

      ... and we ended up experimenting, and we invented new breads.

    20. CT

      Mm-hmm.

    21. SS

      We also made new, new ice creams. We did a, it was an ice cream loaf.

    22. CT

      Mm-hmm.

    23. SS

      Genius.

    24. CT

      That's like bake club. That's what bake club is. It's like, come in, bake with us, learn something new. We're gonna set you up for success. And you're the genius 'cause it's putting the things together in your home that will bring you delight that you can share.

  3. 3:18 – 5:11

    Why Christina bakes: family matriarchs, farms, and cookie-dough rebellion

    1. SS

      Yeah, I've never talked to you about baking, 'cause I'm either doing it with you or we talk about other things. I've actually never talked to you about baking, and now we're gonna talk about baking. What was your... Like, where was your entry into baking? Like, was it an escape to, like, because you didn't wanna play outside with the other kids, that you were like, "I was like, I'm just gonna be over here baking"? Like, what, where did, like why baking?

    2. CT

      Baking. Okay.

    3. SS

      Why not baseball?

    4. CT

      Yeah. I love to be outdoors, and I love sports, but baking, so my mom is a working mom. She's an accountant. So January through April every year, my grandmas, my aunts would watch us basically, and in my family, the matriarchs bake. That's just what you do in your free time.

    5. SS

      Where'd you grow up?

    6. CT

      Ohio and Virginia.

    7. SS

      Okay, that, well, that, that's a, that's a... Yeah.

    8. CT

      And then my mom would ship me off to Ohio to live with my grandma on her farm every summer so that we didn't, we didn't become city kids when we moved to Virginia.

    9. SS

      [laughs]

    10. CT

      City kids. Um, and I loved it because, uh, it was time with them, but really, I loved it 'cause I like cookie dough. Only I started eating too much of my grandma's cookie dough, and she started doing the math and being like, "This is not adding up. This should equal this many cookies," demand planning in her head. And she realized I was the culprit, and she basically was like, "No more baking with me because you keep eating the cookie dough. You're spoiling your dinner," all the grandma things. It was, like, survival of the fittest moment, and I wasn't allowed to turn on the oven, but I loved cookie dough, so I would, at a very young age, make these concoctions of, like, I don't know, flour, sugar, things that I remembered putting in, and it was trial and error, right? Like, if you don't put in enough sugar, it's not really cookie dough. I'd put a raw egg in and be like, "Ooh, this is good." You put too much salt in, not enough baking soda, et cetera. Then I was, then got to the age where I could turn on the oven, and so these concoctions would actually start baking, and that's... I, I learned how to bake-

    11. SS

      So this, this-

    12. CT

      ... self-taught as a home baker.

    13. SS

      But the-

  4. 5:11 – 6:03

    From culinary school to a non-precious, experimental baking philosophy

    1. CT

      And then I moved to New York City 'cause I was like, "I wanna do this for a living."

    2. SS

      And then you b- went to, you went to fancy-

    3. CT

      Culinary school

    4. SS

      ... fancy culinary school, became a fancy baker, worked in fancy restaurants.

    5. CT

      Yeah, 'cause I'm intense.

    6. SS

      Right.

    7. CT

      I like, I like the competitive, the inner competitive spirit.

    8. SS

      So-

    9. CT

      I wanna do it the highest of my game.

    10. SS

      So here's the thing that I find amazing, which is most kids who discover baking, it's, it's a, it's science. It's following-

    11. CT

      Mm

    12. SS

      ... following the formula.

    13. CT

      Yeah.

    14. SS

      And their first recipes are memorized, you know, or, or you read them. But you, you didn't have that, so from the get-go, it was trial and error. From the get-go, you had to learn, like, one egg tastes good, three e- eggs tastes bad.

    15. CT

      And that's how I learn. That's how I bake.

    16. SS

      And things crumble or things stay together. So you're-

    17. CT

      Baking was never precious for me, right?

    18. SS

      That's what it is.

    19. CT

      Most people, why do they bake? 'Cause they like the control of it, the science, the security behind it.

    20. SS

      Yeah.

    21. CT

      It's hard, but it's accurate.

    22. SS

      Yeah.

    23. CT

      I love about baking is the opposite of that reason

  5. 6:03 – 7:34

    A/B testing desserts and getting good at disappointment

    1. SS

      The thing, 'cause I've seen, I've, having baked with you before and having experimented with you before, the thing that I love that you do that no one, I've never seen anybody else do, which is usually somebody makes a thing, right?

    2. CT

      Mm-hmm.

    3. SS

      And even if they experiment, it'll either work or it won't work, and they say, "Ah, next time I'll add this to it." You will have four things going on simultaneously. It's like a conveyor belt. This one's got a little more of this, this one's got a little more of that, this one has less. And you, you are. You're treating it like A, B, C, D, and see which one comes out. And that's what we did when we made the beer bread.

    4. CT

      100%.

    5. SS

      We, I remember, 'cause I went and bought the beer. [laughs] I came in with-

    6. CT

      How many bottles of beer did you buy?

    7. SS

      We went through a lot of bottles of beer on the wall.

    8. CT

      [laughs]

    9. SS

      Uh, and, and we probably tried, I remember we tried a raspberry-

    10. CT

      Uh-huh

    11. SS

      ... a raspberry beer. We tried a chocolate beer. We tried a stout. We tried, like, like, a fancy beer. We tried a not fancy beer. And we did the same recipe with all these beers until we discovered one we liked.

    12. CT

      That's right. And so for me, baking-

    13. SS

      Love

    14. CT

      ... the b- love.

    15. SS

      I liked all of them. [laughs]

    16. CT

      No. Well, yeah, to be fair. For me, baking and the approach to life is always walking around with this sense of what if.

    17. SS

      Yeah.

    18. CT

      What if? What if the raspberry one's really good? What if the chocolate's... What if? What if I put pretzels and chocolate together and swirl them into... What if I put ch- cookie dough, sweetened condensed milk, Ritz crackers, and Bugles-

    19. SS

      Yeah, that sounds gross

    20. CT

      ... in the oven?

    21. SS

      But there they are.

    22. CT

      But there they are.

    23. SS

      I'm looking at them right now.

    24. CT

      And you never know. And the beauty is-

    25. SS

      There's a Bugle on a cookie.

    26. CT

      [laughs] The beauty is you don't know, and I, I love that part of baking. You only know what you know, and I go into it.

    27. SS

      But-

  6. 7:34 – 9:42

    Breaking dessert rules: Milk Bar’s contrarian choices and the name origin

    1. CT

      Then I'm not disappointed, 'cause that's the other bit of trial and error. Being a great chef, a great baker, you have to be so good at disappointment.

    2. SS

      But you know, that's fantastic. So you... But even with all your training, you know things that go together and things that shouldn't go together.

    3. CT

      Yeah. But things that go together-

    4. SS

      So how often are you actually disappointed?

    5. CT

      So often.

    6. SS

      I'd like-

    7. CT

      'Cause I wanna defy the odds. For me, like, Milk Bar was built on we're gonna have a bakery, and we're not gonna have vanilla ice cream, and we're not gonna cover cakes on the sides, and we're not gonna make normal cookies that you would find in a bakery. And we're gonna make pie, but it's not apple pie. So you get cereal milk ice cream, and you get Milk Bar pie that's dense, and gooey, and fudgy, that no... We pull it out when it is still dense, and gooey, and... Right? Because who knows? And who's to say? Who gets to make the rules?

    8. SS

      Where did you come up with the name Milk Bar to name your-

    9. CT

      Uh-

    10. SS

      ... your company?

    11. CT

      Okay. It's kinda two parts. One-

    12. SS

      Milk and bar. Those are the two parts.

    13. CT

      [laughs]

    14. SS

      Ba-dum-bum.

    15. CT

      No.

    16. SS

      [laughs]

    17. CT

      Close. No. Um, I, my, my idea for Milk Bar originally, and still is, like my North Star, was a modern-day take on Dairy Queen with a bakery case. Like, I knew I wanted cookies, cakes, and pies, but for me it was all about a soft serve ice cream machine. And this is before soft serve was anything beyond what you'd find at Dairy Queen-

    18. SS

      Right

    19. CT

      ... or, like, a roadside custard stand.

    20. SS

      Right. Chocolate, vanilla, and swirl.

    21. CT

      Yeah. So, like, Dairy Queen, Milk Bar.

    22. SS

      Yeah.

    23. CT

      You can see that, right? Um, and then I started Milk Bar originally in the back of a Momofuku restaurant-

    24. SS

      I remember

    25. CT

      ... because I was helping Dave build all the Momofuku restaurants. And the naming convention that we always had was something Bar, right? Noodle Bar, Ssam Bar-

    26. SS

      Oh, Ssam Bar. Ah

    27. CT

      ... Milk Bar. So part of it's like-

    28. SS

      So you-

    29. CT

      ... the origin story, and then the other part is, like, the nostalgic origin story.

    30. SS

      So milk was really your homage to Dairy Queen, and Bar is 'cause you were forced into it.

  7. 9:42 – 12:22

    Dessert as a love language: introversion, community, and optimism

    1. SS

      So how much has you, how much has baking influenced you as a person in life, your relationships, your friendships, your marriage, your mom-ness-

    2. CT

      It's everything

    3. SS

      ... or, or the other way around?

    4. CT

      Mm.

    5. SS

      How much does out- outside life come into your, into your kitchen?

    6. CT

      Mm. I do-

    7. SS

      Like, which goes first?

    8. CT

      Mm. I think it goes in w- it has gone through waves in my baking career. Here's what I know about baking. Even after all that I said, I thought I knew why I loved to bake, and it wasn't until a few years ago that I realized that I actually love to bake, not just 'cause I love to eat dessert. I thought that was really the motivating factor. And not just because I love the creative outlet of it. But I do my best talking through dessert. So dessert is my relationship to the world, to community. I'm an introvert. The reason I like to hide in the kitchen is 'cause I wanna bake you e- I want you to feel known, and seen, and loved by your not-too-sweet chocolate cake, right? Like, I, that's how I say, "I got you. I'm here for you. I love you. I'm sorry you had a shitty day. Happy birthday." [laughs] Like, anything in between. And, um-

    9. SS

      It's your love language.

    10. CT

      It i- it's, it is. That's why I bake. And it gives me the never-

    11. SS

      You bake to give love

    12. CT

      ... it gives me the never-ending capability to fall back in love with anything: a simple ingredient, feeling good about a day, being a human in the world. Like, it is my bit of optimism.

    13. SS

      I, I think what I want, I think what I, what's important, what I wanna get across is that too many of us think baking is follow the recipe, and it i- it's not like cooking.

    14. CT

      Mm.

    15. SS

      Cooking you can experiment more. In baking, you can't. There's less room for experimentation because if you, you change the variables, the science changes.

    16. CT

      Mm-hmm.

    17. SS

      The chemistry changes. Um, and it doesn't work. And this idea that the, getting comfortable with failure, and that baking is a, is an education for getting comfortable with failure. Like, it doesn't taste good, so throw it out and make it again. Like, so what?

    18. CT

      Just what did you learn from it? When you fail from anything in life, what did you learn?

    19. SS

      Yeah.

    20. CT

      Right? Use that. There's always good in something. And for me, if you're not failing, you're not taking risks. You're not growing.

    21. SS

      Yeah.

    22. CT

      Right? What have you learned today? I didn't learn anything, 'cause I crushed it.

    23. SS

      How do you define failure? 'Cause nobody wants to fail.

    24. CT

      Things not turning out the way that I thought they would. And guess what?That's fine

    25. SS

      How-

    26. CT

      If not, that's great.

    27. SS

      So-

    28. CT

      That's flexibility

    29. SS

      ... so how has this mentality towards your cakes impacted you as a, as an entrepreneur? 'Cause you, you, Milk B- Milk Bar is your company.

    30. CT

      Yes.

  8. 12:22 – 16:07

    Entrepreneurship lessons: possibility, experimentation, and avoiding stagnation

    1. SS

      So I'm, I'm very curious 'cause, you know, for me, I can, I can look at myself. I know as an entrepreneur and a business owner, like I know what elements of my personality come and show up-

    2. CT

      Mm

    3. SS

      ... for better and sometimes worse, but I c- I know how they show up at work, so, 'cause I'm an artist and I have an artist sensibility.

    4. CT

      Mm.

    5. SS

      And, and I love, I love seeing things. I love the s- my senses. I love hearing things, love tasting things. I just love all of that. I know how that shows up in, at work.

    6. CT

      Yes.

    7. SS

      You know? I love the experimentation. I love the messiness. I love the chaos. Because for me, uh, creativity is the, is the skill of finding order in chaos, right?

    8. CT

      The skill of finding order in chaos.

    9. SS

      C- creativity is finding order in chaos, and sometimes that chaos is thrust upon you. Market conditions.

    10. CT

      Mm-hmm.

    11. SS

      Uh, and sometimes I have to inject chaos in order to get some creativity out. So I find in my in for, for me, for work, when it gets stale, and sometimes I don't realize things are stale until I realize I'm bored.

    12. CT

      Mm.

    13. SS

      And when I'm bored, I realize it's because there's no... And so sometimes I inject creativity. I, I inject-

    14. CT

      Chaos

    15. SS

      ... chaos in order to produce a creative out- uh, output. And by the way, not just mine, everybody's. Like I-

    16. CT

      This is a very... Can I tell you? This is a very chef mentality.

    17. SS

      Really?

    18. CT

      Some of the greatest chefs that I worked for were the most drawn to chaos. Some, some might call it drama, but in a way that was like, if it doesn't exist, we're not alive. We don't-

    19. SS

      Yeah

    20. CT

      ... feel alive. The spirit of getting something done, the Herculean effort of it-

    21. SS

      Yeah. But I, I-

    22. CT

      ... and the sparks that come from that don't exist

    23. SS

      ... I, I think the difference, at least from TV shows that I've watched about chefs [laughs]

    24. CT

      [laughs]

    25. SS

      Which probably is a terrible way to make this conclusion, but I don't wanna be the hero. I don't wanna inject chaos and then be like, "And I put it right."

    26. CT

      Step, yeah. [laughs]

    27. SS

      It's not, it's not a, it's not like that. It's I wanna inject chaos and be like, "All right, everybody. We have a mess. I don't know what to do, even if I made it. What are you gonna do?"

    28. CT

      Yeah.

    29. SS

      And I love, I love watching people and pushing people to find creative solutions to the mess that sometimes I make.

    30. CT

      Mm-hmm.

  9. 16:07 – 19:11

    Compost cookie concept: using what’s in the pantry (and what it reveals)

    1. SS

      Let-

    2. CT

      It's brilliant

    3. SS

      ... let's bake.

    4. CT

      Okay.

    5. SS

      I wanna learn. So you, you've made something not with me, but I've been in the room when you're making them, which is a compost cookie.

    6. CT

      Mm-hmm.

    7. SS

      And I knew that we were gonna make these 'cause I was told, I was given one instruction, which is bring stuff from around my kitchen. Just bring stuff. I have no idea if any of this stuff is bakeable. You don't know what I brought.

    8. CT

      I have no clue what you brought.

    9. SS

      But I brought stuff from around my kitchen.

    10. CT

      So I think every baked good, like it's not about us when we make baked goods. It's about what the baked good does for the person that's eating it. Not too sweet. So the compost cookie-

    11. SS

      Yeah

    12. CT

      ... is a chocolate chip cookie when you don't have enough chocolate chips to make a choco- chocolate chip cookie.

    13. SS

      That was the origin?

    14. CT

      It's butterscotch chips. It's pretzels. It's potato chips. It's ground coffee. It's graham cracker crumbs.

    15. SS

      It's whatev- it's whatever.

    16. CT

      It's anything and everything. I used to make it on this island off the coast of New Hampshire. A bad storm would come in. I had to bake for 600 people breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and it was basically the like, "Ooh, we're not getting any fresh," so I'd just go into the pantry and grab stuff. And it became this beloved cookie because people would guess every time, "Oh, okay."

    17. SS

      So this is my bespoket cookie.

    18. CT

      This is your bespoke compost cookie. I also just think it's fascinating what people keep in their pantries. It says everything. It's, they're the, the food that they, that fuels them.

    19. SS

      Like-

    20. CT

      It's the, it's the food that fuels your creative engine. It's-

    21. SS

      I didn't bring kimchi.

    22. CT

      [laughs]

    23. SS

      And it's always in my fridge.

    24. CT

      That's okay.

    25. SS

      [laughs]

    26. CT

      But you wanna know what? I would've gone the distance with you. But I think the food that people keep at home is the most brilliant-

    27. SS

      Okay

    28. CT

      ... insight into them, and I think your taste buds are fascinating.

    29. SS

      Okay. Well, this-

    30. CT

      And they're different than mine

  10. 19:11 – 24:12

    Unpacking Simon’s pantry haul: tea, snacks, fancy chocolate, and space ice cream

    1. SS

      So one of my favorite things in the world, I brought what I have left-

    2. CT

      Oh.

    3. SS

      Yeah. La- Lapsang souchong tea.

    4. CT

      Okay, so we got tea.

    5. SS

      So we got tea.

    6. CT

      Some really fancy tea.

    7. SS

      My brother-in-law-

    8. CT

      Ooh, yeah

    9. SS

      ... makes the brek- best granola in the world. His name's Brad, and so we call it Br granola.

    10. CT

      Okay.

    11. SS

      I, I brought my, our favorite almonds.

    12. CT

      Oh my God.

    13. SS

      I, I introduced you to these almonds-

    14. CT

      The best

    15. SS

      ... which are almonds from Afghanistan of all things, but they're the tastiest almonds in the world. I had those in the pantry. I have a half-eaten bag of-

    16. CT

      Mm

    17. SS

      ... of-

    18. CT

      Ooh, those are really good

    19. SS

      ... of kettle corn Popchips.

    20. CT

      Mm-hmm.

    21. SS

      I love kettle corn everything.

    22. CT

      I'm getting some play here.

    23. SS

      I brought a bag of my, my Optimism coffee.

    24. CT

      Oh, this stuff.

    25. SS

      That, that's the magic.

    26. CT

      Okay.

    27. SS

      That stuff's the magic.

    28. CT

      I'm gonna, I'm gonna loop these into categories.

    29. SS

      Um, I, somebody l- I think somebody stayed at my house and left these in my, in my pantry.

    30. CT

      Ooh.

  11. 24:12 – 28:59

    Making the dough: creaming butter/sugars, glucose science, and embracing mess

    1. CT

      And then Philz. Simon Philz. Okay. I'm gonna start chopping some stuff up. In the meantime, you're gonna do 101. When you're making a cookie, you gotta start with fat and sugar, and you paddle them together. So I've got unsalted butter, sugar, light brown sugar. Yeah, you got it. And some granulated sugar.

    2. SS

      We have to say, we did not pre-cook, pre-bake the cookies-

    3. CT

      No

    4. SS

      ... because I literally just showed up with the ingredients.

    5. CT

      Could, couldn't do it.

    6. SS

      Couldn't do it.

    7. CT

      Okay.

    8. SS

      So what was the other thing I had to add to this?

    9. CT

      Just those three.

    10. SS

      Oh.

    11. CT

      We're gonna start there. Okay. So butter and sugar cream together till it's nice and smooth. You got it. Like 101, it's all about a homogenous mixture. It's all about scraping down the sides of the bowl to get it going. I'm very excited for this.

    12. SS

      So right now, it's very crumbly.

    13. CT

      Yeah.

    14. SS

      Let's just keep it, keep it going.

    15. CT

      Just keep it going. It'll come together. You can... We'll do this. Ready?

    16. SS

      Yeah.

    17. CT

      [mixer humming] Really get in there.

    18. SS

      You're turn- turning up the...

    19. CT

      Yeah.

    20. SS

      Oh, we're making dough.

    21. CT

      We're making dough.

    22. SS

      So when-

    23. CT

      All right. Now she's looking good

    24. SS

      ... when I, when I was a kid, I used to like dipping my finger in the butter and then dipping it in the sugar, and then eating it off my finger.

    25. CT

      [laughs] This is... Honestly, baking with children and watching them interact with ingredients is-

    26. SS

      Children? [laughs]

    27. CT

      ... one of my favorite things. No, I just mean you did it as a kid-

    28. SS

      Me

    29. CT

      ... because you looked at it with this-

    30. SS

      K- k- kid

  12. 28:59 – 32:10

    Mix-ins and mindset: seeing texture, flavor, and possibility in a ‘glob of mess’

    1. CT

      All right. So we're gonna add some goodies.

    2. SS

      Okay.

    3. CT

      It's as much or as little as you want.

    4. SS

      Well, does it all just get thrown in?

    5. CT

      Yeah. And we're gonna let the, the heft of the paddle break some of these bigger pieces down. What I love in a compost cookie-

    6. SS

      So we're putting, we're putting in, um, my leftover kettle corn pop chips.

    7. CT

      It's gonna be good.

    8. SS

      Those are tasty. Okay, this is the most exciting one of all. That's just gonna be huge and chunky, though.

    9. CT

      No, no, no, it'll break down. I promise. Yeah.

    10. SS

      You, you think? There's a piece in there.

    11. CT

      Oh.

    12. SS

      Why don't you eat it?

    13. CT

      Do you need it?

    14. SS

      No, just eat it. So we have now put in the, the, and now we've put in the ice cream sandwich, the-

    15. CT

      Mm-hmm

    16. SS

      ... sorry, the space ice cream sandwich. We're putting in some granola, homemade family gr- granola

    17. CT

      That's, I think this one's gonna be the reason you really like it.

    18. SS

      I think so too. Then lots of dark chocolate, very fancy dark chocolate, 85%. Bunch of Maltesers.

    19. CT

      This is a fun one because you're never this untidy about how you think about anything. You're-

    20. SS

      Oh, you have absolutely got me wrong

    21. CT

      ... you're, well, you're-

    22. SS

      What you, people-

    23. CT

      ... you're intentional

    24. SS

      ... everybody thinks I'm m- neat and organized, and every-

    25. CT

      No, no, no

    26. SS

      ... the biggest surprise-

    27. CT

      I know you're neat and organized, but-

    28. SS

      It's the biggest surprise everybody has is me, of me, which is I'm messy

    29. CT

      ... I, but look at this.

    30. SS

      That smells good.

  13. 32:10 – 36:06

    Scooping, spacing, and bake time: practical cookie technique (plus crisp vs goo)

    1. CT

      Okay. You got a scoop, I got a scoop. So here's my thing in scooping.

    2. SS

      W-

    3. CT

      One, baking 101, when you're making cookies, you wanna use a cookie scoop because you want all of your cookies to be the same amount so that they bake evenly on a baking sheet.

    4. SS

      This, I've always used a spoon and it's never worked. To use an ice cream scooper is kind of genius.

    5. CT

      Ice cream scoop is the best. So I'm gonna do kind of an oversized scoop.

    6. SS

      I'm not.

    7. CT

      Ugh. Well then I- well then you're, you're going on your own tray because they won't bake evenly if they aren't the same amount.

    8. SS

      Oh.

    9. CT

      'Cause they're gonna go in the oven on the sheet tray for the same time.

    10. SS

      Do we flatten them or leave them big?

    11. CT

      I don't w- no.

    12. SS

      Okay.

    13. CT

      I don't wanna flatten them 'cause I'm really curious. They look like giant ice cream scoops of the most random cookie dough-

    14. SS

      Yeah

    15. CT

      ... you've never thought of.

    16. SS

      This is- I've never made cookies so easily because I, it- it's always difficult. This ice cream scooper thing is a game-changer.

    17. CT

      So I'm gonna take your cookies and I'm actually going to arrange them with, like, two to three inches between them on the baking sheet, 'cause they will spread when they bake, and you wanna give them enough space. All right. Ooh.

    18. SS

      You could get more on there.

    19. CT

      I know I can. I wanted to make sure you had enough. Mine, I'm really gilding the lily in the size of my scoop.

    20. SS

      You're the best. And you know what I realized? It really doesn't matter that I burnt my fingers 'cause they're gonna get in the oven and-

    21. CT

      Yeah

    22. SS

      ... fire cleans everything.

    23. CT

      You're gonna be fine.

    24. SS

      Yeah.

    25. CT

      Okay. Great. Let me do one more on my ... Ooh, I got some big PopCorners. Now this is the ultimate. Look at the bottom of this bowl. It is just littered with great ideas and flavors and texture.

    26. SS

      I'm, I'm licking the spoon. I'm licking the bowl.

    27. CT

      Okay, great. This is, this is, I know you're having a really good time 'cause you've lost yourself in it. For me, baking is, like, my favorite activities in life. Baking, going for a hike, running is the, like, you lose yourself, find yourself.

    28. SS

      Yeah.

    29. CT

      You haven't, when have you thought about the rest of life? When have you thought about-

    30. SS

      This is good

  14. 36:06 – 42:29

    Beer bread: the ‘idiot-proof’ loaf, best beer choice, and “booch bread” experiments

    1. CT

      Come on. Now talk to us about beer.

    2. SS

      Is that the-

    3. CT

      Okay

    4. SS

      ... is that the beer? Which-

    5. CT

      We're making beer bread. That's Samual Smith's. It's our beer.

    6. SS

      That's that?

    7. CT

      Yeah.

    8. SS

      Oh, you went and got it?

    9. CT

      Yeah. The clock here is open. Do you want an excuse-

    10. SS

      Wow

    11. CT

      ... to be drinking at work?

    12. SS

      No, but that's so goodI love that you-

    13. CT

      Oh, yeah. That's why I was like, what, which one should we do?

    14. SS

      So this is important. We're about to make beer bread. Beer bread... So I discovered beer bread many years ago where it was made for me. Uh, and I asked the people who made it for me to give me the recipe, and they did. I couldn't find some of the recipes. There was some sweetener in there I couldn't find, so I just started using honey, and I used to make beer bread all the time. Then I was with you, and I was like, "Hey, can we make beer bread?" And you're like, "Hey, I've never made beer bread." And I was like, "Well, let's make beer bread 'cause it's idiot-proof and I can make it." You made one tweak to my recipe. Instead of flour, self-rising flour, which has been a gift because now I get a little more... 'Cause it's such a dense bread.

    15. CT

      Mm-hmm.

    16. SS

      It's a little dense now and it raises a little bit, and I've experimented for years with a- so many different beers. And we did that one night of beer, beers on the wall, and we discovered that the best beer for beer bread was... What's it called?

    17. CT

      Dun, dun, dun.

    18. SS

      Samual Smith's Organic Chocolate Stout.

    19. CT

      It's a good beer.

    20. SS

      It is a good beer, and it has existed since 1758.

    21. CT

      Oh, God bless. Can I tell you that I also, because I love to ask the question what if, like a month or two ago just started going at not just beer bread, but stuff like what if I put a ripe banana into a chocolate stout beer bread? And then I took it as far as what if I take... What are other brews? Kombucha. What if I make a kombucha beer bread? Okay, it's gonna be sweeter and a little bit more berry forward, and then add some berries in it. My kids are obsessed with... It's not even kombucha beer bread, but what then is it?

    22. SS

      It's a very bouchie-

    23. CT

      It's kombucha bread?

    24. SS

      It's a very bougie-

    25. CT

      Booch, booch

    26. SS

      ... it's a very booch, bougie booch bread.

    27. CT

      Booch. Booch.

    28. SS

      But the thing that I love about beer bread, and this, and this, this... I probably shouldn't say this on the air because this is what I do, but for Thanksgiving, you know, everybody brings something to Thanksgiving, and I'll make one, two, or three loads of beer bread. And I come in, and people are like, "Who made the bread?" I'm like, "I made the bread." And people think I'm kneading dough and I'm spending all day. Making beer bread is about, it's about five minutes of mixing ingredients and then putting it in the oven for about, what, an hour? A little less than an hour. That's all beer bread, it is. It is absolutely idiot-proof.

    29. CT

      It's reverse engineering what makes bread bread, right? Like-

    30. SS

      But it makes people f- the joy that I give people thinking that I made bread, and I... They don't realize that I did it, like, 20 minutes before I came to Thanksgiving.

  15. 42:29 – 51:10

    Tasting results and the deeper takeaway: effort, love, and “eight-minute friends”

    1. SS

      now I have to wait here patiently for Christina to come back 'cause I don't know... I guess I can go back to the oven. Okay, I'll go back to the oven. All right, compost cookies. So we're gonna do two things. We're gonna do the magic of television. We have our actual compost cookies that we actually made, and here they are. You wanna put those over here?

    2. CT

      You got it.

    3. SS

      Uh, but we actually made, but, and we did the magic of television where you pre-baked a loaf of bread-

    4. CT

      Yeah

    5. SS

      ... because otherwise it would take too long.

    6. CT

      What do you think? We taste the bread first, then our cookies have a minute to-

    7. SS

      I think so

    8. CT

      ... kind of cool down.

    9. SS

      So we have-

    10. CT

      Will you make me your perfect bite so I can taste it through your eyes? Okay, so-

    11. SS

      I'm experimenting here

    12. CT

      ... a nice room temp-y butter, some salt, a little on top. I love salt on a little piece of bread.

    13. SS

      It's a, my, my... It's again, going back to my childhood. My grandfather always put butter on his bread and always put salt on the butter. And to this day-

    14. CT

      No matter what.

    15. SS

      Yeah, so it's, it's somewhat tasty and somewhat nostalgic for me.

    16. CT

      Ugh. Ugh.

    17. SS

      Okay, cheers.

    18. CT

      Cheers.

    19. SS

      Chink.

    20. CT

      To friendship.

    21. SS

      To friendship.

    22. CT

      [laughs]

    23. SS

      It's so good. It's so simple and so good.

    24. CT

      Oh, that salt-

    25. SS

      I-

    26. CT

      ... when it comes around and, like, dances on-

    27. SS

      And that-

    28. CT

      ... your taste buds

    29. SS

      ... and that chocolate beer.

    30. CT

      The acid of that chocolate beer.

Episode duration: 51:11

Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript

Transcript of episode fPBataO_LEQ

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

iOSAndroidClaudeChrome