Breaking Tradition with cellist Anastasia Kobekina | A Bit of Optimism Podcast

Classical music could use a little disruption. For @AnastasiaKobekina, that means playing outside of its rigid forms.

Simon SinekhostGreat Minds Anastasia Kobekinaguest

Jul 17, 202444mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

35 min read · 7,130 words

0:00 – 0:07
Intro
1. SSSimon Sinek
  I think you're a very important musician, and I honestly believe if you s- continue what you're doing, if we go back and watch a concert
0:07 – 10:31
Modernizing classical music
1. SSSimon Sinek
  together in 10 years, the audience will look nothing like the audiences look today. A lot of gray hair will be replaced by young people who are coming to feel something, not to sit and witness history.
2. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  I keep thinking about this song, uh, maybe we can sing together. [cello music plays]
3. SSSimon Sinek
  Oh, this has been a m- magical treat for me. I can't even tell you. [upbeat music plays] Anastasia, I can't tell you what a treat it is to sit down with you.
4. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  I know.
5. SSSimon Sinek
  Um, I invited you onto the podcast, um, as an act of total selfishness-
6. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  [laughs]
7. SSSimon Sinek
  ... um, because I'm a huge fan of yours. Um, and to be able to sit with you, with your magical Stradivarius cello, um, is such a treat. Thank you so much for joining me.
8. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Thank you so much for your invitation.
9. SSSimon Sinek
  Um-
10. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  What a treat for me. [laughs]
11. SSSimon Sinek
  I'm a huge classical music fan. I grew up listening to it. Um, uh, I have friends who are musicians, and one of the things that's confounded classical music more than I think most of the other arts, is how to keep it alive and keep it fresh for young people. You know, one of the big challenges that, you know, some of the big orchestras have is their subscribers are just dying.
12. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  [sighs] Yeah, but on other s- side, um, imagine you are, uh, turning 65 or 70 or 60. Your kids are already grown up. Uh, where would you go? Rock concert?
13. SSSimon Sinek
  But I-
14. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Maybe classical concert-
15. SSSimon Sinek
  Yes, yes, but, but-
16. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  ... is, is the, the place where you would, uh, spend your evening, no?
17. SSSimon Sinek
  But this is, but this is something that I think that you are doing that's actually very important, which is how I discovered you, I discovered you-
18. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  [laughs]
19. SSSimon Sinek
  ... in, in a very modern way, on the Instagram. [laughs] Uh, and you were playing the third movement of Vivaldi's, uh, A Minor Cello Concerto. I think that's the one-
20. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Yeah
21. SSSimon Sinek
  ... right, the A Minor. Um, and you did it differently than it's usually done. You were banging on your cello-
22. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  [laughs]
23. SSSimon Sinek
  ... and you were giving it a youth and a vitality that, that is un- uncommon, right? You don't bang on your cello when you play it. That's not normal. Um, and I, I posted it o- I reposted your clip, and the number of people who fell in love with it, and I, and then your r- then your album came out, and I sent that piece to a lot of friends. And the number of people who aren't into classical music who fell in love with that piece, um, I think is a gateway drug.
24. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  [laughs]
25. SSSimon Sinek
  And so I think you're doing, I don't know if you even realize this, if this was your intention, but you're opening up classical music to people to appreciate that it can be fun, that it's not always serious.
26. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Because classical music is fun-
27. SSSimon Sinek
  Yes
28. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  ... just as any other music, yeah. It's, it's just how to find the approach. I think, [sighs] in a way, in classical music, there is everything what you find in the pop music. There is beautiful melodies, haunting harmonies. The all content is there, it's just the form. Sometimes symphony is 40 minutes-
29. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah
30. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  ... concerto, and you know, there is a l- lot of certain, mm, frames and rules that sometimes make difficult to new public to access it, and, uh, uh, yeah.
10:31 – 17:50
Life as a soloist
1. SSSimon Sinek
  Just m- tell me a little bit about sort of the life that you live. I don't think people appreciate how difficult it is to be a soloist in classical music.
2. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Yeah, probably when you're doing this every day, you're not very much [laughs] looking at this from a side, and, uh, uh, yeah, I think the everyday challenge is, uh, mm, for me is, uh, this preparation to the concert, you know? I want to be in my best at the concert moment, you know? When I come to the public, I want to feel m- my strengths. I want to feel the desire of being open and sharing the music, but sometimes I just wake up, and I feel introvert. [laughs]
3. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah.
4. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  And, um, yeah, I just, uh, don't feel, um, like leaving my bed. [laughs]
5. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah.
6. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  And, um, this is all these ways of, uh, also psychologically preparing my, preparing myself for the concert because, um, every time, it's never the same. And, uh, n- I, I have of, of course my doubts and, uh, um, some weaknesses that I know I have, but in the moment of the concert when I perform for the public, I have to feel the, just so open, you know? Just feeling the light that is going from my chest-
7. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah
8. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  ... and, uh, this desire of sharing all these emotions that are in the music.
9. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah.
10. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  And, um, uh, it's, it's like a one way from one concert to another, the preparation, uh, that I, uh, you know, there is, uh, there is certain ... point that I'm approaching, and I feel how I approach with it, you know, how, how I get, uh, uh, anxiety or how I get my heart beating faster towards a concert. How, uh, mm, yeah, what, what, how I feel today about standing there, vulnerable, open-
11. SSSimon Sinek
  Mm
12. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  ... and, uh, desiring for this connection.
13. SSSimon Sinek
  Mm.
14. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Desiring for this l- uh, communication with-
15. SSSimon Sinek
  Mm
16. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  ... the people because, mm, o- often we, with, w- people think that, uh, being in a concert is a, it's a passive thing. Not at all. I can exactly tell if how people are listening to me. It's, it's like telling a story to someone, you can, you c- you can tell how the other one is listening. If it's maybe every third word or half an ear, or is it really intensively go, uh, somebody goes with you.
17. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah.
18. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Um, and, uh, um, I always desire for this connection, and the people, um, in every place are so different.
19. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah. I mean, you're 29, right?
20. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Yeah.
21. SSSimon Sinek
  29. So you're young in your career. You've got a long career ahead of you, and, and, and it, and so you have the energy to do it. Uh, but, and I can relate to what you're talking about. You know, when, when I started speaking a lot, you know, the, I can always tell... Uh, as you said, I can give the same speech over and over and over again, like you can play the same piece over and over again, but it's different every time because it's the audience, and that's true. Actors talk about the audience, you know? How you, how do you do a Broadway show at the same time, the same thing every day, eight days a week, eight times a week? And it's, it's the audience, and the desire to connect and bring my message and be fully present with the audience. And the, there was excitement leading up, but then I always remember coming home, it's just like, "Oh," and I just want to stay home.
22. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Mm-hmm.
23. SSSimon Sinek
  And I never wanted to leave my house because I was out all the time, that being home was magical. Um, and the last thing I wanted to... But the difference is I think the last thing I wanted to do was speak when I was at home. The last thing I wanted to do was have, you know, where you b- do you play for yourself by yourself?
24. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Sometimes.
25. SSSimon Sinek
  Less, less?
26. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  But l- but less, yeah.
27. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah.
28. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Of course, um, I have certain, certain deadlines. The pieces that I have to, like an athlete, you know, build, uh, the strengths, build the muscles, uh, for, for this certain performance. And, uh, I have to, of course, catch up. It's a different, uh, music, different, uh, uh, music of pi- uh, pieces of music, so I, I look how I, you know, prepare them over the next months.
29. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah, and get 'em in your fingers.
30. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Yeah.
17:50 – 22:33
Anger and cello
1. SSSimon Sinek
  Are you better at telling us your emotions when you play cello, or are you good at, with your words? Like, if you're trying to express anger or frustration or love to someone, are you good with your words, or is it better that you pick up your cello and I-
2. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  [laughs]
3. SSSimon Sinek
  ... can know how you feel?
4. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Probably I'm m- more clear with the cello, yeah-
5. SSSimon Sinek
  [laughs]
6. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  ... 'cause the, the, the words are always tricky, you know? You can, uh, you can always hide, uh, your intentions with the, with the-
7. SSSimon Sinek
  So what is a Bach prelude when you're angry? [laughs]
8. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Oh. Um, uh
9. SSSimon Sinek
  [cello music] Oh.
10. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Oh.
11. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah.
12. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Or-
13. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah
14. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  ... uh, well, it's hard to shape probably the first prelude-
15. SSSimon Sinek
  Of course
16. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  ... with the everyone.
17. SSSimon Sinek
  'Cause it's, it's so-
18. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Yeah
19. SSSimon Sinek
  ... it's luscious
20. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  ... it's, it's so peaceful. It's so-
21. SSSimon Sinek
  Of course, you find the music that fits the mood.
22. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Yeah.
23. SSSimon Sinek
  Of course, of course.
24. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Or Shostakovich, it's always, uh [cello music] mm-hmm. Yeah, Shostakovich is the-
25. SSSimon Sinek
  Shostakovich
26. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  ... the best to release the energy. Oh, yeah.
27. SSSimon Sinek
  So, but I think what you're capturing here is, you know, it's one of... It's always been a pet peeve of mine when I say to people, "Oh, I love classical music," and they say to me, "Oh, I love classical music, too. It's so relaxing."
28. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  [laughs]
29. SSSimon Sinek
  And I was like, "No."
30. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  [laughs]
22:33 – 33:58
Anastasia sings Canto della Buranella
1. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  pinin, valentin, panevin. Pin, pinin, valentin, pure gin. Leze le vuce caprice de che, che iere leggere, leggere pute. Leze le vuce caprice de che, che iere leggere, leggere pute. [hums]
2. SSSimon Sinek
  So good. So good.
3. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Just little Venetian song.
4. SSSimon Sinek
  It's, it's, um... The thing that is unusual about your album as a classical music album, uh, is it's rare to have one movement on an album. Usually it's a whole piece, a whole piece, a whole piece.
5. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Four.
6. SSSimon Sinek
  And for people who, who... So classical music, you know, a symphony usually has four movements. A concerto usually has three movements. Is that right?
7. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Yeah.
8. SSSimon Sinek
  [laughs] Usually, not always. But, you know, and the three movements, one is fast, one is slow, one is something else, and you don't necessarily like all the movements [laughs] but they always make sure you have all the movements on the album. You didn't do that. Like that Vivaldi, for example, you didn't put the whole piece. You put one movement. What was your thinking to, to be so selective and not-
9. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  I-
10. SSSimon Sinek
  ... to not push out, you know, this-
11. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  I just, uh, took the best, what I thought was the best [laughs] and, uh, yeah.
12. SSSimon Sinek
  Because, you know, in classical music, this is what I was saying about the old mentality, it's sacrilege- It's considered a sin-
13. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Yeah [laughs]
14. SSSimon Sinek
  ... to break a piece. It, you know-
15. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Yeah, but-
16. SSSimon Sinek
  To only play one movement and not the whole, and not the whole piece
17. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  But at the times of Beethoven, Beethoven for example, they had the separate pieces. Or for example, Chopin, he never performed his, uh, piano and cello sonata at the entire, as entire piece. He choose the second and the third movement as his favorites, and it was, you see it from the programs, there was just movements, separate movements
18. SSSimon Sinek
  Oh, I didn't know that.
19. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  So it's actually the old tradition which is now, uh, yeah, seen a bit like, uh, oh, what... This, this, this is not, no, no, we, we play the whole, the entire thing now [laughs]
20. SSSimon Sinek
  We play the whole piece. But this is why I think you're important. And as I sa- I'm going right back to the beginning of the, of our conversation, which is I think you're very, very important for classical music because I think you're coming at it from a young person's point of view. You're bringing Instagram. I learned about you on Instagram, you know? You're bringing social media. You're, you're, you're changing the pieces to make them suit your mood. You're banging on your cello, you're singing along, you know? People, y- y- you're, you're doing th- you're putting one movement on an album because you like that movement better, you know? And I think what you're allowing new audiences to classical music, you, what you're showing them is you don't have to be a snob, you don't have to like it all. But if the musician herself says, "No, I'm putting this one mu- movement on my album because that's the one I like," then why do I have to listen to the whole piece? I can just go listen to the one movement that I like. And I think you're making music accessible. I really think what you're doing is probably bigger than you realize.
21. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Indeed. I, I nev- I never thought about this [laughs] , you know? I was just doing what I felt was fun for me-
22. SSSimon Sinek
  Yeah
23. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  ... you know? It's, it's, uh, what you said, it's, uh, about the album, it's like playlist, you know, you put the, the s- things that you like. And, uh, what I w- I took this album a- as a playlist also. To create something, a little Venetian portrait of music that I thought was, uh, presented.
24. SSSimon Sinek
  That's genius. That's exactly what you're doing. In a playlist society where we don't even buy albums, we buy songs. We don't even buy music, we, we stream it.
25. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Yeah.
26. SSSimon Sinek
  And we make playlists of a piece here-
27. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  All the time
28. SSSimon Sinek
  ... a piece there. We break things up. We mix genres. And we, we are a playlist society, we're not an album society anymore. And classical music is still stuck in an album mentality. When I go to the symphony, they play the first symphony, then they play the next symphony after the intermission, and I have to listen to two albums. But I, I don't even know if I've ever been to a mu- a concert where it's just a movement here and a movement there, unless it's, you know, a pops concert or something. And I think what you're doing is, is, is so important, which is you're bringing... You're modernizing the way we listen to music. And as you said, this is how they used to do it anyway. It's a playlist mentality-
29. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Yeah
30. SSSimon Sinek
  ... for a playlist world. Ah, brilliant.
33:58 – 38:03
Anastasia's current obsessions
1. SSSimon Sinek
  the piece that, that is stuck in your head right now? If, maybe you don't have one, but I'm so curious what's stuck in your head right now.
2. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  It's, um, it's also the piece with this, uh, bit of singing and I, uh, [cello plays] by a contemporary composer, Petris Vasaks. [cello plays] [singing]
3. SSSimon Sinek
  Wow. That is hauntingly beautiful.
4. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  In a different acoustics it sounds so different in, in the church. I just play, uh, I played another concert-
5. SSSimon Sinek
  Wow
6. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  ... two, two days ago in a, in a church and I, I played it and, uh, gave me goosebumps.
7. SSSimon Sinek
  Can you tell me a story from your life? Something you were part of, something you did It doesn't matter if it was commercially successful or not, but something you did that you loved being a part of it, and if everything in your life was like this one thing, you'd be the happiest person alive
8. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  It's probably happening now by, uh, with this album, Venice. The program that I chose, that I put together and, uh, I have fully, uh, you know, shaped the concert experience and listening experience of my audience, and I don't get that every, uh, every time. Usually the, um, the program, the, the piece that I'm playing is chosen by the promoter, and I'm asked to play it, and, uh, there is certain... Yeah, I, of course, I like this music, but, um, I didn't choose it myself. And with the program that I, uh, with Venice, it's something that I, you know, it's my personal-- It's, it's mine, and this is, um, a very special feeling and, uh, I hope I will... I found this and I will, I will do more of that in the future, mixing different genres because music, music is music. You- I think one shouldn't separate it too much between the styles and genres. Yeah. It's-
9. SSSimon Sinek
  I mean, you play some pieces that are from movies, you know, as well as with Vivaldi-
10. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Yes
11. SSSimon Sinek
  ... and these famous classical composers.
38:03 – 42:43
An early childhood memory
1. SSSimon Sinek
  Tell me an early specific happy childhood memory, something I can relive with you. Something like I'm watching a movie, something that you can tell me that you can relive with me.
2. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  I remember that, um, my, uh, grandma was not feeling well and, uh, I think I was about six or seven and, uh, I, I felt I want to do something for her and, um, everybody was a bit concerned and, uh, concerned and there was some kind of tension moments and, uh, I thought, um, yeah, I, I can, I can console her best with a, with a piece that I just, uh, you know, just learned. And, uh, I remember, uh, getting in the, in her room and getting everybody out of her [chuckles] , of her little room, closing the door, and just, uh, just playing for her a little, little piece that I just learned. And this is probably one of the moments when I realized that, uh, you know, one can say more sometimes with, with music than with words.
3. SSSimon Sinek
  Thank you. Um, what's beautiful about both of those memories, the one about the, the way you describe Venice, your album, and the one that you describe about this experience you have when you're six or seven with your grandmother, in both cases, you chose what to play. In both cases, you used music as a way of communicating something that you-- And you've said it th-th so many times throughout this conversation with you. So many times I'll ask you a direct question and you say, "Well, it's depends what I'm trying to give my audience. It depends what I'm trying to help them feel." You keep talking about the audience, not about the composer or the musician. When I talk to other musicians, they talk about the music. They talk about what Beethoven intended, what, you know, Bach intended, and what they're trying to capture from history. You've mentioned none of that, and you've talked obsessively about the audience and how you are like your grandmother when nobody else knows what to do. There's tension in the room that you have the ability to speak a language that tells people exactly what they want to hear in the time they need to hear it, which is why it makes total sense why you would break with convention to pull a movement from here or a piece that's old combined with a piece that's new, because it's not about taking music and putting in formaldehyde and preserving it for life, but it's about using it as a tool to communicate. And you are a poet, uh, and you choose your music and you choose your notes like a poet chooses their words to evoke something in us that we need that we don't even necessarily know that we need at the time. Uh, and you have a tremendous range of emotions to share, and you-- I think you're a v- [chuckles] I think you're a very important musician for all the reasons we've talked about. Because it's not about, it's not about the composer. It's not even about the way that the notes are on the page. It's about what the notes are intended to do. They're a gift. Music is a gift. And I think classical music has such a range of emotions and such an, a remarkable ability to communicate that I honestly believe if you continue what you're doing, you will have an effect on this... If we come back, if you and I go to a concert of any of the major, uh, symphonies anywhere in the world, any of the major philharmonics anywhere in the world, if we go back and watch a concert together in 10 years, the way it's programmed will look nothing like the way music is programmed today, and the audience will look nothing like the audiences look today. A lot of gray hair will be replaced by young people who are coming to feel something, not to sit and witness history.
4. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  You... I really hope for that too.
5. SSSimon Sinek
  As you, you are-- Continue playing for your grandmother, but we are now your grandmother
6. SSSimon Sinek
  You're amazing
7. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  No, it's to you. Thank you. I didn't realize so many things before today
8. SSSimon Sinek
  Good. Do you wanna usher us out with
42:43 – 44:57
"Hallelujah"
1. SSSimon Sinek
  something?
2. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  [laughs]
3. SSSimon Sinek
  Dealer's choice
4. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  [inhales deeply]
5. SSSimon Sinek
  You can, you can play however you feel. [plays cello] Oh, this has been a magical treat for me. I can't even tell you
6. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  [laughs] [plays cello] I don't know. I, I keep thinking about this song, uh, maybe we can sing together. [plays cello] Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Hallelujah
7. SSSimon Sinek
  [sighs] Thank you
8. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Thank you so much
9. SSSimon Sinek
  So good. Oh, that was so good. I didn't expect that
10. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  [laughs]
11. SSSimon Sinek
  Perfect piece. Perfect piece to end. Leonard Cohen. [sighs] Thanks
12. AKAnastasia Kobekina
  Thank you
13. SSSimon Sinek
  If you enjoyed this podcast and would like to hear more, please subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts. And if you'd like even more optimism, check out my website, simonsinek.com, for classes, videos, and more. Until then, take care of yourself, take care of each other. [outro music]