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Simon SinekSimon Sinek

How to Trust Yourself When Everyone Has an Opinion | Love Thy Nader's Mary Holland Nader

Maybe this sounds familiar: you finally get the opportunity you've been waiting for, and the voice in your head says, "I'm not ready, I don't belong here." Now imagine hearing that voice with millions of people watching. Mary Holland Nader has lived it. She never dreamed of fame, but when Hulu's reality series Love Thy Nader came knocking, she traded her secure Wall Street job for the spotlight and put her new platform to work. It allowed her to launch Mary & Pip, a purpose-driven fintech company that takes a wellness approach to money, demystifying finance for those of us it usually makes feel dumb. She also brings that expertise to her new podcast, Growing Interest (where I was lucky to be among her first guests). On the show, Mary Holland lets us join every step of her founder’s journey… even when it’s messy. Because she never wanted to be famous, but now that she is, she’s realized fame is leverage. And Mary Holland's committed to using hers to help and inspire others. In this episode you'll learn: ➡️ How to survive a 180-degree life pivot ➡️ Why your gut doesn't tell you what to do — it checks your values ➡️ The "corny" morning ritual that transformed Mary Holland's confidence ➡️ How to stop making your doubts your identity (with one simple grammar change) ➡️ The difference between being nice and being kind — and why feedback is kind ➡️ The 2 questions every founder should ask before raising money ➡️ Why Simon gives his time to supporters instead of critics ➡️ The "reluctant sellout" + how financial stability protects your values ➡️ How to introduce yourself when you're more than one job title Mary Holland is a new breed of entrepreneur — proof of what happens when you use your platform for something bigger than yourself. She stopped waiting for confidence to arrive and decided to build it… in front of everyone. This… is A Bit of Optimism. + + + This episode is brought to you by SAP. Bring it with SAP GROW. The AI Cloud ERP for any size business. Learn more at https://SAP.com/GROW + + + Tune in to Mary Holland’s new podcast, Growing Interest, and you might just see Simon as a guest. Improve your financial wellness with Mary & Pip. Head to: https://www.maryandpip.com Want to keep up with Mary Holland and her sisters? Check out Love Thy Nader on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/series/love-thy-nader + + + Chapters 00:00:00 From Wall Street to Reality TV: Using Fame as a Tool for Good 00:02:57 Growing Up in the Bayou: The Nader Sisters' Origin Story 00:07:19 Why Finance? Growing Up With Money Anxiety 00:12:58 Why the Finance Makes Everyone Feel Stupid 00:14:14 Mary and Pip: Translating Finance for Real People 00:15:31 The Pitch That Made Her Cringe: Embracing Vulnerability on Camera 00:25:22 The Power of Positive Self-Talk: Mirror Affirmations That Actually Work 00:28:15 Trust Your Gut: When Smart People Give You Bad Advice 00:30:09 What Does A Mentor Actually Look Like? 00:32:12 The Cost of Hypergrowth: Why Gazelles Get Eaten 00:42:24 Spears: The Feedback Technique That Changed Everything 00:52:29 The Reluctant Sellout: Why Financial Stability Protects Your Values 00:56:00 I'm Not a Founder, I'm an Inviter: Finding Your True Identity + + + Simon is an unshakable optimist. He believes in a bright future and our ability to build it together. Described as “a visionary thinker with a rare intellect,” Simon has devoted his professional life to help advance a vision of the world that does not yet exist; a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired, feel safe wherever they are and end the day fulfilled by the work that they do. Simon is the author of multiple best-selling books including Start With Why, Leaders Eat Last, Together is Better, and The Infinite Game. + + + Website: http://simonsinek.com/ Leaderful: https://simonsinek.com/leaderful Podcast: http://apple.co/simonsinek Instagram: https://instagram.com/simonsinek/ Linkedin: https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/simonsinek Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek + + + #SimonSinek + + +

Simon SinekhostMary Holland Naderguest
Aug 25, 202657mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:57

    From Wall Street to Reality TV: Using Fame as a Tool for Good

    1. SS

      You have no desire to be famous, and yet you recognize that being on TV and having some fame-

    2. MN

      Mm-hmm

    3. SS

      ... gives you the ability to spread your message more efficiently.

    4. MN

      Correct. Yeah.

    5. SS

      And the minute you made that connection, you realized, "Huh, I can leverage this for good."

    6. MN

      This season, it shows a much more confident version of me.

    7. SS

      Yeah.

    8. MN

      I can't control the edit at all.

    9. SS

      Yeah, yeah.

    10. MN

      So, like, why pretend to be someone I'm not? And the more vulnerable I am, the more likely someone like your niece could watch and be like-

    11. SS

      Mm-hmm

    12. MN

      ... "Oh, I see myself in her," or, "I could do that, too."

    13. SS

      These days, fame isn't solely a by-product of a career. The pursuit of fame has become a career. We live in a world of content creators, influencers, and reality TV stars who have literally made fame their job, which is why I was excited to talk to Mary Holland Nader. Mary Holland, along with her three sisters, are the stars of the Hulu reality TV show, Love Thy Nader. Except it was Mary Holland's sister, Brooks, who was the one who actually wanted to be famous. Mary Holland just didn't wanna let her sisters down. She had a secure Wall Street job and a clear path ahead. Mary Holland wondered, "If I had fame, what could I do with it?" Her answer: leverage it for good. Mary Holland founded Mary & Pip, an app that demystifies money for those of us who don't really understand finance and all its jargon. Just like we have mental and physical wellness, Mary Holland wants to help guide people to practice financial wellness, too. She also launched a podcast, Growing Interest, to further advance her cause. You might even see me as a guest on the show sometime. Mary Holland loves to teach and she also loves to learn, so fair warning, you may hear a little more of me than usual in this episode. Mary Holland took full advantage of our time together to ask me a bunch of questions. It's fair to say that in our modern social media world, counting followers is here to stay. So let's have more entrepreneurs like Mary Holland, who are motivated to use that platform to serve others. If you like this episode, please remember to subscribe. This is A Bit of Optimism. This episode is proudly brought to you by SAP. 100% of employees are people. 100% of customers are people. And 100% of investors are people. It turns out, if you don't understand people, you don't understand business, which is why I was so excited when I asked David Robinson, the head of SAP Customer Success in North America, about how he talks to customers about new technology. His secret weapon? Listening.

  2. 2:57 – 7:19

    Growing Up in the Bayou: The Nader Sisters' Origin Story

    1. SS

      You are now a famous TV star.

    2. MN

      Oh, stop.

    3. SS

      [laughs]

    4. MN

      On my way. [laughs]

    5. SS

      And the thing that I find so fun about you and your family, so I wanna understand, so you're from the Bayou in Louisiana.

    6. MN

      Down under.

    7. SS

      Like-

    8. MN

      Yep

    9. SS

      ... not like from New Orleans or something.

    10. MN

      No, from the Bayou. So we're, we're... We grew up in Baton Rouge, but we're from a small town called Maringouin.

    11. SS

      Which I can't even figure out how to spell.

    12. MN

      No, it's, it's basically, it means mosquito in Cajun French, so not even French.

    13. SS

      It's not even French.

    14. MN

      Like Ca- yeah, Cajun French.

    15. SS

      Okay.

    16. MN

      Because it's s- the air is so thick. There's so many mosquitoes there. You walk outside and you're just eating. I always got the most bites 'cause I was the sweetest sister, of course.

    17. SS

      Right. Of course.

    18. MN

      So Maringouin is, like, where my grandparents are from, where we were all kind of grew up a little bit, and then we moved to the big city of Baton Rouge, which is a college town, the capital of Louisiana, but still very Cajun.

    19. SS

      I mean, like, are you all wearing, like, overalls and barefoot and, like, with a piece of straw in your mouth? Like-

    20. MN

      Honestly, yeah.

    21. SS

      [laughs]

    22. MN

      Like, it was pretty-

    23. SS

      Is this-

    24. MN

      ... like stereotypical. Like, Simon, we had a pet alligator.

    25. SS

      [laughs] No. Please.

    26. MN

      I'm not even kidding. Gary the Gator. Yeah. I'm not even kidding.

    27. SS

      It was-

    28. MN

      There's pictures of us. He... We named him Gary. I mean-

    29. SS

      And was he just, like, in your backyard?

    30. MN

      He was in our... So when we were in Maringouin-

  3. 7:19 – 12:58

    Why Finance? Growing Up With Money Anxiety

    1. SS

      But you went into finance.

    2. MN

      Yes.

    3. SS

      Okay. You're, like, good at math.

    4. MN

      Yeah, I guess. [laughs]

    5. SS

      Well, I mean, you're in finance.

    6. MN

      I'm in finance, yeah.

    7. SS

      You worked for a big bank in finance.

    8. MN

      I worked for a big bank in finance, but I honestly went into finance because we were so insecure financially-

    9. SS

      Yeah

    10. MN

      ... growing up, and my dad pivoted from nonprofit work to finance to wealth management, and kind of climbed his way with all of us out of the situation we were in.

    11. SS

      Mm.

    12. MN

      And slowly, as we got older, I mean, we were still lower middle class, but we were very lower class, like, at the beginning when he was in nonprofit work. So I always associated finance with stability and money, and I was like, "Oh my gosh, if I know finance, I'll never worry about it." 'Cause we always worried about money growing up. Like, it was a constant stressor in our house.

    13. SS

      Mm.

    14. MN

      So that's why I studied finance at Georgia and got the big job at the big Wall Street bank 'cause I thought this is gonna pay me the most money and gonna be the most stable.

    15. SS

      So I wanna know, your sister's pursuing her dream to become famous. That's going fine.

    16. MN

      Yeah.

    17. SS

      She manages to get a TV show.

    18. MN

      Yep.

    19. SS

      What did she pitch?

    20. MN

      Our origin story of the show is actually so funny. We were all out in New York, okay, just being our crazy normal selves 'cause we all go out in New York together. We met this couple, this really nice couple, and their daughter and her boyfriend, and it was, like, just a really fun Long Island, like, New York couple. And I feel like Long Islanders and, like, Northeasterns are s- very similar to Cajuns, that we like to drink. We like to party. We're, like, very hospitable and welcoming. So we were all just, like, partying and having fun together, okay, as you know. [laughs] And so we were just, like, having the most fun out. Turns out this is Jimmy Kimmel's agent, and he was like, "You guys need a show." Like, we were just being our... We were like, "We're from Louisiana. We're making our way in New York." And he was like, "You guys need a show." And we were like, "What's it to... Why are you saying we need a show?" And he, turns out he's Jimmy Kimmel's agent, baby doll.

    21. SS

      So it's, so it's just weird luck.

    22. MN

      Weird, crazy luck. So he starts kind of, like, quasi-representing us, and this is before I was still at Deutsche Bank as an analyst, like, not even thinking anything of it. He basically pitched us to Hulu. They were like, "This is an interesting story." They didn't know who any of us were, but they let us produce basically a sizzle reel, which is, like, 18 minutes, like a shortened pilot to pitch-

    23. SS

      Right

    24. MN

      ... to the network. So we filmed that when I was probably 23, 24. Sarah Jane couldn't even drink yet, like, not even legal drinking age. Brooke was still married to her husband, which is a whole 'nother story. Graceann was still in college. So we were all in a very different stage in life than actual Season 1 was. Filmed the sizzle reel. I was so anxious, Simon, that someone at work would, like, find out about it. I was still in such, like, impress the boss mode as an analyst. And so we filmed it, and then we didn't really hear anything, and I honestly thought, like, we didn't get it.

    25. SS

      Mm.

    26. MN

      So I was like, "Okay, perfect. I'm just gonna continue on my easy, steady path." And then we get the call last January that was like, "Y'all got the show," basically on the back of Brooke's being on Dancing With the Stars. She made a huge splash in the media. Everyone's talking about her, and they were like, "This is actually interesting. They're all in different phases in their life now. Let's green-light this thing." So they, we got the call last January. I basically had, like, two weeks to decide if I was gonna quit my Wall Street job or pursue this show with my sisters. But everyone's like, "You made this huge choice," but it was a sister show. Like, they couldn't do it without me, and Deutsche Bank wasn't-

    27. SS

      They could've.

    28. MN

      They could've, but-

    29. SS

      I mean, there's plenty of-

    30. MN

      Plenty of dra- there's lots of dramas-

  4. 12:58 – 14:14

    Why the Finance Makes Everyone Feel Stupid

    1. SS

      because I am what people in the finance industry refer to as an idiot.

    2. MN

      [laughs] Stop it.

    3. SS

      Uh, no, no, no, no, no.

    4. MN

      Tell me.

    5. SS

      Everybody thinks I'm joking.

    6. MN

      Really?

    7. SS

      Everybody thinks I'm joking. I don't understand money. I'm not driven by money.

    8. MN

      Mm-hmm.

    9. SS

      And I, one of the reasons I've been a bad investor, one of the reasons, uh, you know, like, even financial managers-

    10. MN

      Mm-hmm

    11. SS

      ... who I go and see in the bank-

    12. MN

      Mm-hmm

    13. SS

      ... the reason I'm bad at it is because they make me feel dumb.

    14. MN

      Yeah.

    15. SS

      You know, they speak to me in jargon.

    16. MN

      Totally.

    17. SS

      And I don't know whether they, it's because they automatically think that I understand it, or they're just trying to make themselves look smart.

    18. MN

      Yeah.

    19. SS

      And when I ask questions-

    20. MN

      Mm-hmm

    21. SS

      ... they, they roll their eyes or they talk to me like an idiot. And so I just choose not to work with them.

    22. MN

      Yeah.

    23. SS

      And I think a lot of people keep it to themselves. They keep it a secret-

    24. MN

      Mm-hmm

    25. SS

      ... that we don't understand money or don't understand investing or don't... And basic, basic stuff. Like, if-

    26. MN

      Yeah

    27. SS

      ... if everybody invested a little bit and understood compound interest even-

    28. MN

      Correct

    29. SS

      ... you know, which now I understand. I wish I understood it when I was 23 years old.

    30. MN

      Yeah.

  5. 14:14 – 15:31

    Mary and Pip: Translating Finance for Real People

    1. SS

      ... 'cause we feel dumb.

    2. MN

      Yeah.

    3. SS

      And so I think what you're doing, you're making it simple to understand so people understand the basics of investing and of finance so that they can provide for themselves and the people they love.

    4. MN

      Right.

    5. SS

      You're not starting a business to make people har- you know, day trading-

    6. MN

      Exactly

    7. SS

      ... and hardcore investors.

    8. MN

      Exactly.

    9. SS

      This is basic, basic stuff.

    10. MN

      The most basic. And let me ask you, like, you, you said you don't even like talking about it because they make you feel dumb, and I feel like that manifestation of just holding it in and not talking about it creates such stress and anxiety.

    11. SS

      Yeah.

    12. MN

      There's just so many trends about longevity, and it's such a buzzword, and I feel like everyone's trying to hack their wellness, but then they have such financial stress that is ultimately contributing to their overall-

    13. SS

      I think money is the number one cause of divorce.

    14. MN

      It's g- yeah.

    15. SS

      You know?

    16. MN

      Oh, it is. Yeah.

    17. SS

      Like, financial stress-

    18. MN

      Totally

    19. SS

      ... you, you're right. And people who live longer-

    20. MN

      Yeah

    21. SS

      ... um, have lower stress.

    22. MN

      Correct.

    23. SS

      It's not that they just eat, you know, vegetables.

    24. MN

      Yeah, exactly.

    25. SS

      It's that they have lower stress. You would think more people would spend time to understand the basics of money for no other reason than for their health.

    26. MN

      Exactly.

    27. SS

      I'm glad you're doing this.

    28. MN

      Yes.

    29. SS

      But this is what I find interesting about you, which is you have no desire to be on television. You're only doing it because all for one, one for all.

    30. MN

      [laughs]

  6. 15:31 – 25:22

    The Pitch That Made Her Cringe: Embracing Vulnerability on Camera

    1. SS

      You know?

    2. MN

      There's a lot of points like that. [laughs]

    3. SS

      You know? And, like, the producers are editing it in a way that they can make you the good one-

    4. MN

      Yep

    5. SS

      ... or the bad one.

    6. MN

      Yep.

    7. SS

      Nobody really knows-

    8. MN

      So stressful

    9. SS

      ... the real one.

    10. MN

      Yeah.

    11. SS

      You know? It's reality-ish.

    12. MN

      Sure.

    13. SS

      You know?

    14. MN

      Yeah.

    15. SS

      I watched some of a show. [laughs]

    16. MN

      Our... Which one? Tell me. I didn't take you for a reality guy.

    17. SS

      I'm not.

    18. MN

      [laughs]

    19. SS

      And I watched a part of one of your episodes.

    20. MN

      Oh, stop it. No. I don't even wanna know which one. Was it my pitch?

    21. SS

      Yeah.

    22. MN

      I was mortifi- And so also, like, I had worked for so long to get my licenses and on Wall Street. Talk about, like, if they made you feel dumb, they made me feel-

    23. SS

      Right. You actually have a license-

    24. MN

      I-

    25. SS

      ... to practice finance.

    26. MN

      I do, yes.

    27. SS

      Like, you have passed tests.

    28. MN

      I passed tests to practice, and I was also modeling by night, and I felt so dumb just being, like, a pretty girl on Wall Street. Like, honestly.

    29. SS

      Yeah.

    30. MN

      And I just felt, like, so out of place.

  7. 25:22 – 28:15

    The Power of Positive Self-Talk: Mirror Affirmations That Actually Work

    1. MN

      So I would actually, like so corny, look in the mirror in the morning and be like, "I'm a founder. I'm a CEO." Like, "Mary and Pip is going to the moon." Like, I would literally say that in the mirror-

    2. SS

      Yeah

    3. MN

      ... every day, and I felt so corny doing it 'cause I'm not-

    4. SS

      Yeah, yeah

    5. MN

      ... usually not about all that corn. Like-

    6. SS

      It's like, it's like a poster with, you know, a little kitten hanging on it.

    7. MN

      Yeah, exactly. I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is embarrassing" but it actually transformed my confidence. And I would meditate and, like, try to be more conscious of my negative thoughts-

    8. SS

      Yeah

    9. MN

      ... and notice when I thought them and notice when I felt insecure. So a lot of that, like, repetitive rewiring actually contributed, I think, to me being much more confident.

    10. SS

      I, I like female founders 'cause they tend to be more purpose-driven.

    11. MN

      Mm-hmm.

    12. SS

      Men are m- tend to be more competitive, and so for them it's about, "Look at the amount of funding I got." You know?

    13. MN

      Right, right.

    14. SS

      It's like, "Yeah, but your business is stupid."

    15. MN

      Right.

    16. SS

      You know?

    17. MN

      No.

    18. SS

      "We're changing the world."

    19. MN

      Yeah.

    20. SS

      "I got funding."

    21. MN

      Through efficiency and- [laughs]

    22. SS

      You know, through my pizza delivery app.

    23. MN

      [laughs]

    24. SS

      You know? Men it's about, like, how much.

    25. MN

      Mm-hmm.

    26. SS

      And women I find tend to be a little more like, "No, no, but who's-"

    27. MN

      Why

    28. SS

      ... "this gonna help?" You know?

    29. MN

      Yeah.

    30. SS

      Sara Blakely, you know?

  8. 28:15 – 30:09

    Trust Your Gut: When Smart People Give You Bad Advice

    1. SS

      Looking back at my own career, the stupidest decisions I made-

    2. MN

      Tell me

    3. SS

      ... the bad decisions I made, the wrong decisions I made, the wrong advice that I followed, every single time it's because I thought somebody was smarter than me, had more experience than me-

    4. MN

      Right

    5. SS

      ... knew something that I didn't know. I better listen to them because they know more and I'm dumb, and even though it doesn't feel right, uh, they know more than me. And close to 100% of the time-

    6. MN

      Mm-hmm

    7. SS

      ... I wish I trusted my gut. Close to 100% of the time.

    8. MN

      I agree.

    9. SS

      Because your gut isn't telling you what to do.

    10. MN

      Right.

    11. SS

      Your gut is, is checking your values.

    12. MN

      Mm-hmm.

    13. SS

      And so you might get advice that you may or may not agree with, but your gut is saying, "This aligns with your values."

    14. MN

      Yeah.

    15. SS

      "This aligns with your why."

    16. MN

      Yeah.

    17. SS

      And if it doesn't, find a different way.

    18. MN

      Is it the same as intuition? Because-

    19. SS

      Yeah, sure.

    20. MN

      Right? 'Cause we were given our intuition as, like, old time homo sapiens for a reason.

    21. SS

      Correct.

    22. MN

      You know?

    23. SS

      You know, cavemen sort of were evaluating, "Can I trust this person because my survival depends on it?"

    24. MN

      Correct.

    25. SS

      "And I'm, I can trust people who share my values."

    26. MN

      Mm-hmm.

    27. SS

      "And if we're values aligned, this will work."

    28. MN

      Mm-hmm.

    29. SS

      "And if we're not values aligned, you might just be stabbing me in the back." And so, yeah, we, we are gifted with this, and-

    30. MN

      Right

  9. 30:09 – 32:12

    What Does A Mentor Actually Look Like?

    1. SS

      unless it's a mentor or friend with no interest.

    2. MN

      Right.

    3. SS

      And I, that's why I think mentors should be outside of your-

    4. MN

      I like that

    5. SS

      ... your business.

    6. MN

      Yeah.

    7. SS

      Like, there's a difference between a mentor and a champion.

    8. MN

      Yeah.

    9. SS

      A champion is somebody who, who's pushing you, helping you-

    10. MN

      Mm-hmm

    11. SS

      ... but they, they're either in your company-

    12. MN

      Right

    13. SS

      ... if you work for a company, you know, that might be a senior executive And you expect a champion to like, "Hey, put in a good word for me."

    14. MN

      Right.

    15. SS

      Like, where a, a true mentor has no ability to influence anything.

    16. MN

      Yeah.

    17. SS

      They're not investors. They have no financial interest. They don't know your boss.

    18. MN

      Right.

    19. SS

      They have no interest whatsoever-

    20. MN

      Yeah

    21. SS

      ... and no ability to help you other than just give you advice because they care about you and love you.

    22. MN

      Yeah.

    23. SS

      That's it. That's a real mentor.

    24. MN

      Yeah.

    25. SS

      I think you're right. I think we do, we do all these things.

    26. MN

      It, it, yeah, I know. And I think you're, we're having this conversation at the perfect time 'cause me and my business partner, we're, we're about to start raising our seed round, and right now it's really easy. There's so many VCs. Private markets are booming. And I remember when we first, Sidebar, I first met you and I was telling you about Mary and Pip.

    27. SS

      Mm-hmm.

    28. MN

      You were like, "What do you wanna do, like, with the company?" And I was like, "I guess exit," because everyone was telling me-

    29. SS

      That's what they tell you

    30. MN

      ... that's, that's what you have to do. That's the end goal.

  10. 32:12 – 42:24

    The Cost of Hypergrowth: Why Gazelles Get Eaten

    1. MN

      Yeah

    2. SS

      ... and so the other question is is like why do you need to raise money? Do you actually need outside money?

    3. MN

      Right.

    4. SS

      So I, I think of everything in terms of cost.

    5. MN

      Okay.

    6. SS

      Right? By raising money-

    7. MN

      Yeah

    8. SS

      ... that means you get to build the business faster-

    9. MN

      Right

    10. SS

      ... because you can, you can afford more staff-

    11. MN

      Yep

    12. SS

      ... and you can have three or four priorities at the same time.

    13. MN

      Yeah.

    14. SS

      If I don't take money-

    15. MN

      Yeah

    16. SS

      ... I can do one thing at a time. So one is not better or worse, it's just different ways of doing it.

    17. MN

      Yeah.

    18. SS

      So what's the cost? Well, the cost of doing four things at the same time means that I have to take money from somebody else, which means I'm gonna sell some of my business and somebody else is gonna have influence.

    19. MN

      Yeah.

    20. SS

      Not taking somebody's money means the cost is-

    21. MN

      Yeah

    22. SS

      ... I'm gonna grow slower-

    23. MN

      Right

    24. SS

      ... but I don't have any outside-

    25. MN

      Yeah

    26. SS

      ... influence. I just have to get better at prioritizing.

    27. MN

      Yeah.

    28. SS

      I personally chose-

    29. MN

      Mm-hmm

    30. SS

      ... slower. Why are you raising money?

  11. 42:24 – 52:29

    Spears: The Feedback Technique That Changed Everything

    1. SS

      So if somebody works on a presentation for Mary and Pip-

    2. MN

      Okay

    3. SS

      ... they might work two weeks to put their PowerPoint together, and then-

    4. MN

      Sure

    5. SS

      ... they come to the big meeting-

    6. MN

      Yeah

    7. SS

      ... and they give their PowerPoint. And at the end of the PowerPoint, they go, "Eh?"

    8. MN

      "What do you think?"

    9. SS

      "Pretty good, right? Eh?"

    10. MN

      Yeah. [laughs]

    11. SS

      And you can't really say anything mean, and if you point out a, an issue with the PowerPoint or the, one of the details-

    12. MN

      Yeah

    13. SS

      ... or one of the ideas, they get defensive or they get upset-

    14. MN

      Mm-hmm

    15. SS

      ... whatever it is, right? 'Cause you're criticizing their work.

    16. MN

      Yeah.

    17. SS

      The Air Force was different. Same scenario, somebody put together their PowerPoint, spent two weeks putting it together. They show up at the big presentation.

    18. MN

      Mm-hmm.

    19. SS

      I'm in the briefing, I'm in the room.

    20. MN

      Mm-hmm.

    21. SS

      And at the end of the presentation, the person who presents says, "Spears?" And they basically said, "Here's my presentation. Throw spears at it to help me make it better."

    22. MN

      I love that.

    23. SS

      And so we implemented Spears here.

    24. MN

      Yes. It's so good

    25. SS

      So now it's very common, it's very common at our company when anybody says, "Hey, I've got an idea," and they'll present their idea, and they go, "Spears?"

    26. MN

      "Spears?" Obsess.

    27. SS

      Or somebody will be like, "I got a spear for you," and the people, like, bring it on. Very easy to implement, and what we've developed is this culture where basically-

    28. MN

      No hard feelings

    29. SS

      ... criticizing somebody's-

    30. MN

      Yeah

  12. 52:29 – 56:00

    The Reluctant Sellout: Why Financial Stability Protects Your Values

    1. SS

      wanna be influencers.

    2. MN

      Mm-hmm.

    3. SS

      Do you know the term selling out?

    4. MN

      Yeah. Of course.

    5. SS

      Like, "Oh my God, he's such a sellout."

    6. MN

      Yeah, yeah. Sellout. Yeah, yeah.

    7. SS

      Well, you know, more and more people your generation, when I say sellout, they go n- they don't know what it means.

    8. MN

      Really?

    9. SS

      And when I explain it, well, it means that somebody, like, starts cashing in on what they've built with brands that may or may not align with their values, but they're doing it for the cash.

    10. MN

      Yeah.

    11. SS

      And then people go, "Yeah?"

    12. MN

      Yeah. [laughs] Of course. Yeah.

    13. SS

      Like, that, like, the term selling out-

    14. MN

      Yeah

    15. SS

      ... is not pejorative.

    16. MN

      Right.

    17. SS

      It's actually seen as the model.

    18. MN

      Yeah. The goal.

    19. SS

      And so influencer culture is get as many followers as possible and then cash out.

    20. MN

      Yeah.

    21. SS

      Like, then get as many sponsors and micro-sponsors as you can get.

    22. MN

      Totally.

    23. SS

      Make it last as long as you can, and then-

    24. MN

      Yeah

    25. SS

      ... sign out.

    26. MN

      See ya. Yeah.

    27. SS

      You know? And, like, the whole influencer model-

    28. MN

      It never ends. Yeah

    29. SS

      ... the whole influencer model is gain popularity in any way-

    30. MN

      Yeah

  13. 56:00 – 57:49

    I'm Not a Founder, I'm an Inviter: Finding Your True Identity

    1. SS

      Can I add?

    2. MN

      Please add. Always add.

    3. SS

      You're a door opener.

    4. MN

      I'm a door opener.

    5. SS

      I'm an inviter.

    6. MN

      I'm an inviter.

    7. SS

      "What do you do?" "I'm a door opener. I'm an inviter." "What does that mean?" "Well, there are many ways in which I get to invite people in to discover that they're capable of more than they thought."

    8. MN

      Mm.

    9. SS

      "One of the ways I do it is as a founder."

    10. MN

      I love that. One is as a podcaster. One is as a friend.

    11. SS

      So if you're at an influencer event, you'd say-

    12. MN

      Yeah

    13. SS

      ... "One of the ways I do that is as an influencer, which is why I'm here."

    14. MN

      Which is why I'm here.

    15. SS

      Or if you're in a boardroom, say, "One of the ways I do it is as a founder, which is why I'm here."

    16. MN

      I love that.

    17. SS

      But you, you don't wanna define yourself by something you do because-

    18. MN

      Your why

    19. SS

      ... 20 years from now, you will have founded something 20 years ago.

    20. MN

      Mm-hmm.

    21. SS

      And do you still wanna be a founder 20 years on?

    22. MN

      Probably not.

    23. SS

      It plays-

    24. MN

      And founder, I feel like is a little diluted now. [laughs]

    25. SS

      It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's current, right?

    26. MN

      Yeah. Yeah.

    27. SS

      So from this day on till the day you die-

    28. MN

      I'm an inviter

    29. SS

      ... you're, you're, you invite people in, make them feel safe-

    30. MN

      Love that

Episode duration: 57:49

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