Simon Sinek

The Climb Out of Pain is Taller Than Everest with Nat Geo photographer Cory Richards PART 2

*Please note: At 9:37, Simon and Cory have a discussion about suicide. What happens after we attain success and glory? Where do you go when there's nowhere left to run from yourself? In Part 2 of my conversation with Cory Richards, Cory explains why reaching the summit of Everest marked the beginning of a long, painful fall from grace. After his tumultuous decision to retire from climbing, Cory found himself lost and confused about his true identity. At the same time, he was forced to grapple with multiple life-shattering events at once -- some of his own making. In this episode, we discuss the difference between identity and purpose, the skills Cory learned to cope with multiple tragedies, and why the more we ignore life’s harshest lessons, the louder they become. This…is A Bit of Optimism. Watch PART 1 here: https://youtu.be/ZvQ4K1JpvFI For more on Cory Richards and his work, check out: http://coryrichards.com/ ⏰ Timestamps 0:00 The power of slowing down 4:49 4 steps to reclaim your agency 5:44 Cory's last expedition 12:13 Heartbreak, death, and uncertainty 22:27 The people in Cory's corner 29:37 Purpose is not doing 36:08 Failure does not exist + + + Simon is an unshakable optimist. He believes in a bright future and our ability to build it together. Described as “a visionary thinker with a rare intellect,” Simon has devoted his professional life to help advance a vision of the world that does not yet exist; a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired, feel safe wherever they are and end the day fulfilled by the work that they do. Simon is the author of multiple best-selling books including Start With Why, Leaders Eat Last, Together is Better, and The Infinite Game. + + + Website: http://simonsinek.com/ Live Online Classes: https://simonsinek.com/classes/ Podcast: http://apple.co/simonsinek Instagram: https://instagram.com/simonsinek/ Linkedin: https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/simonsinek Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek Simon’s books: The Infinite Game: https://simonsinek.com/books/the-infinite-game/ Start With Why: https://simonsinek.com/books/start-with-why/ Find Your Why: https://simonsinek.com/books/find-your-why/ Leaders Eat Last: https://simonsinek.com/books/leaders-eat-last/ Together is Better: https://simonsinek.com/books/together-is-better/ + + + #SimonSinek

CRCory RichardsguestSSSimon Sinekhost

Apr 29, 2025·41m·Watch on YouTube ↗

📖 CHAPTERS

1. 1

   Slowing down to shift from threat responses to critical thinking

   Cory explains how the mind “splits” under perceived threat, pushing people into binary, survival thinking. He argues resilience begins with the ability to slow down and self-regulate, enabling a move from panic to response and from sympathetic to parasympathetic nervous system states.

2. 2

   Calm under pressure: the airline emergency analogy

   Simon connects Cory’s model to pilots handling crises, describing how calm communication and disciplined thinking can save lives. The example reinforces that self-regulation creates options when the situation is dire.

3. 3

   Agency as the foundation of resilience (and why blame stalls recovery)

   Cory argues that agency—ownership of the current reality—is the essential “jumping-off point” for resilience. He contrasts forward-focused agency with backward-focused victimhood and blame, using friends displaced by fires as a real-world illustration of different recovery trajectories.

4. 4

   Cory’s four-part framework to reclaim agency

   Cory lays out four interlocking principles: (1) agency is everything, (2) discovery demands discomfort, (3) certainty kills curiosity, and (4) adaptation leads to evolution. Simon probes how these principles show up in practice and asks for examples from Cory’s life.

5. 5

   The last expedition: Dhaulagiri breakdown and identity rupture

   Cory recounts a 2021 expedition pivot during COVID after an Everest season cancellation, leading to a high-stress attempt on Dhaulagiri. Sleep deprivation, emotional volatility, and altitude stress culminate in an intense mental health episode and an abrupt decision to abandon climbing and photography altogether.

6. 6

   Suicidality, reaching for help, and the difference between knowledge and wisdom

   After returning home, Cory describes spiraling depression, receiving a harsh email from a teammate, and moving toward suicide before seeking help. He reflects on how intellectual understanding of mental health isn’t the same as embodied healing, and how losing his identity forced a deeper question: who is he without external validation.

7. 7

   Heartbreak and rebuilding through discomfort, curiosity, and creative adaptation

   Cory maps his framework onto the aftermath: financial uncertainty, identity stress, and a painful relationship revelation. He shows how curiosity about his own stories transformed his writing from victimhood into service, producing work that helps others feel less alone.

8. 8

   A 2025 cascade: fires, breakup, father’s death, and sudden heartbreak

   Cory shares a recent series of compounding crises: community devastation from fires, a breakup with his best friend, his father’s decline and death, and a new love that ends abruptly. He describes practicing agency daily—naming what’s true, enduring discomfort, resisting certainty stories, and staying anchored to values without knowing the eventual outcome.

9. 9

   The people in Cory’s corner: holding space without trying to fix

   They discuss the role of community in making resilience possible. Cory emphasizes that the most helpful people don’t silver-line pain; they sit with it, validate it, and reduce aloneness—whether it’s his men’s group (Treehouse) or friends who physically showed up during his darkest moments.

10. 10

    Purpose is not doing: compassion as the core of meaning

    Cory argues people mistakenly equate purpose with accomplishment. He defines his purpose as helping people connect with a more authentic understanding of themselves, which leads to self-compassion and then compassion for others—often expressed through storytelling.

11. 11

    Living at extremes: how highs demand lows (and why the lessons get louder)

    Simon reflects on the equilibrium of extreme lives: towering highs (like Everest) come with correspondingly deep lows. They explore how lessons are available to everyone, but at the extremes they become unavoidable—“shouted” rather than softly learned—making Cory’s insights unusually clear and transferable.

12. 12

    Failure does not exist: transitions, temporary labels, and gratitude for the tapestry

    Cory explains his belief that nothing truly “fails”—things transition, disintegrate, and become inputs for new creation, like an ouroboros or the circle of life. They connect this to relationships and life events as temporary states, and Cory closes with gratitude—even for painful relationships—because they shaped who he became.