Simon Sinek

The Climb Out of Pain is Taller Than Everest with Nat Geo photographer Cory Richards PART 1

What happens when we reach the top? There’s only one place to go. Cory Richards has scaled the world’s highest peaks and fallen to life’s lowest lows. An acclaimed mountain climber, photographer, and filmmaker, Cory has literally reached the top of the world. He climbed Mount Everest with no supplemental oxygen, became the first American to summit an 8,000-meter mountain, and narrowly survived an avalanche, after which he skyrocketed to fame when his photos graced the cover of National Geographic. And yet, after all that success, Cory felt like an emotional wreck. As his mental health deteriorated, his volatile behavior damaged his career and his relationships. Without the identity of “climber” to give him validation, Cory was forced to confront who he really is. In Part 1 of this conversation, Cory shares with me head-spinning stories from climbing the Himalayas, his struggles with mental health as a teen, and the difference between survival and resilience. This…is A Bit of Optimism. For more on Cory Richards and his work, check out: http://coryrichards.com/ ⏰ Timestamps 0:00 An intro to Cory Richards 3:24 Cory survived an avalanche 10:51 Cory's volatile childhood 25:48 Cory's reasons for climbing 29:52 A selfish pursuit 33:56 What Everest taught Cory Richards 39:06 Why Simon quit writing "Leaders Eat Last" 44:01 Giving up vs. letting go + + + Simon is an unshakable optimist. He believes in a bright future and our ability to build it together. Described as “a visionary thinker with a rare intellect,” Simon has devoted his professional life to help advance a vision of the world that does not yet exist; a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired, feel safe wherever they are and end the day fulfilled by the work that they do. Simon is the author of multiple best-selling books including Start With Why, Leaders Eat Last, Together is Better, and The Infinite Game. + + + Website: http://simonsinek.com/ Live Online Classes: https://simonsinek.com/classes/ Podcast: http://apple.co/simonsinek Instagram: https://instagram.com/simonsinek/ Linkedin: https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/simonsinek Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek Simon’s books: The Infinite Game: https://simonsinek.com/books/the-infinite-game/ Start With Why: https://simonsinek.com/books/start-with-why/ Find Your Why: https://simonsinek.com/books/find-your-why/ Leaders Eat Last: https://simonsinek.com/books/leaders-eat-last/ Together is Better: https://simonsinek.com/books/together-is-better/ + + + #SimonSinek

SSSimon SinekhostCRCory Richardsguest

Apr 22, 2025·48m·Watch on YouTube ↗

📖 CHAPTERS

1. 1

   Whiskey, “crutches,” and self-soothing as a nervous-system strategy

   Simon and Cory open with a disarmingly honest exchange about having a drink and using “crutches” to self-soothe. They distinguish between harmful coping mechanisms and healthier substitutes, framing the conversation around awareness, moderation, and nervous-system regulation.

2. 2

   Gasherbrum II: winter summit, storm descent, and the avalanche that changed everything

   Cory recounts the historic winter ascent of Gasherbrum II in Pakistan and the brutal conditions on summit day. On the descent, an avalanche air blast throws the team hundreds of feet—survived almost miraculously—followed by Cory documenting shock and grief with his camera.

3. 3

   Fame after trauma: the Nat Geo cover as both breakthrough and hiding place

   The iconic post-avalanche selfie becomes a career catalyst and opens doors at National Geographic. But Cory describes how the external success coincides with complex PTSD, pushing him deeper into survival mode and into secretive, shame-driven coping.

4. 4

   Early wiring: postpartum depression, attachment, and a childhood that looked “fine” from outside

   Cory describes a childhood with genuine outdoor joy and supportive parents, alongside early mental-health intervention. He reflects on how postpartum depression and family dynamics shaped attachment, belonging, and emotional regulation long before adolescence imploded.

5. 5

   Adolescence erupts: violence with his brother, hospitalization, and a bipolar II diagnosis

   As Cory and his brother accelerate academically, their relationship turns rageful and violent, crossing into CPS territory. Cory’s grades collapse, he’s hospitalized as a young teen, and medication blunts him into emotional numbness and defiance.

6. 6

   Running away, homelessness, and a complicated sexual trauma experience

   Cory recounts periods of running away, being unhoused, and seeking safety wherever he can find it. He describes a sexual experience with a 19-year-old while he was 15 as complicated and power-imbalanced, shaping later views of belonging, sexuality, and safety.

7. 7

   Agency returns: asking to go back to the hospital, Seattle reset, and rediscovering climbing

   After a violent blowup, Cory asks to return to the hospital—an early moment of agency that changes the family dynamic. He later moves to Seattle, works multiple jobs, and reconnects with climbing as an identity anchor.

8. 8

   Alaska and the camera: photography as tether, climbing as expression, and a quiet mind

   A formative trip to the Ruth Gorge in Alaska—with his dad’s older climbing partners—becomes a turning point. Cory experiences photography as a way to connect to a world he felt separated from, while climbing externalizes his inner intensity and brings focus and motivation.

9. 9

   Becoming ‘professional’: sponsors, marketing, and the pressure toward risk

   Simon probes what it means to be a professional climber and how sponsorship economics work. Cory explains that brands reward bigger, colder, harder objectives—creating a system that incentivizes escalating danger and turning athletes into marketing vehicles.

10. 10

    Why climb at all? Purpose, validation, and chasing love through external achievement

    Cory answers the deeper question of motivation: climbing offered purpose and expression, but also fed a craving for validation that felt like love. He links traumatic backgrounds to high-risk pursuits—where hypervigilance and limited future forecasting can become an advantage.

11. 11

    Everest as rock bottom: oxygen, visibility, and the limits of achievement

    They unpack the cultural mythology of Everest and the added status of climbing without oxygen. Cory acknowledges both poetic narratives and the reality of attention and extremity-seeking—and describes the summit as the moment he realized he couldn’t outrun himself.

12. 12

    Knowledge vs. transformation: lessons that stay ‘upstairs’ versus embodied change

    Simon presses whether Everest made Cory a better person. Cory distinguishes between gaining insight and embodying it—arguing that real growth requires assimilation and practice, not just experiences that produce stories and knowledge.

13. 13

    Simon’s breaking point writing ‘Leaders Eat Last’: mission, sacrifice, and not being alone

    Simon shares how writing his second book became the hardest project of his life, costing time, peace, and relationships. A call with an Air Force friend reframes the work as a mission sustained by responsibility and companionship—less grit, more solidarity.

14. 14

    Giving up vs. letting go: resilience, values, and escaping reaction-mode culture

    Cory and Simon explore a nuanced distinction: quitting versus releasing certainty and control. They argue resilience comes from values-based response rather than survival-mode reaction, warning that a culture stuck in fight/flight/freeze cannibalizes its own values.