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Simon SinekSimon Sinek

The Cure for Loneliness with U.S. Surgeon General Vivek Murthy | A Bit of Optimism Podcast

Loneliness has reached epidemic proportions. Where do we go to feel like we belong?

Dr. Vivek MurthyguestSimon SinekhostGreat Minds
Jan 7, 202550mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

  1. 0:00 – 1:43

    An intro to Dr. Murthy and the loneliness epidemic

    1. VM

      The most important thing about having people over is the company. It's not the setting, it's not the food, it's company. And that's what we remember whenever we go over to people's houses.

    2. SS

      Mm-hmm.

    3. VM

      So we just started inviting people over and saying, "You know what? Our place is a total mess. It's chaos. Uh, the kids are probably gonna be screaming in the background. We may have to leave multiple times to, like, figure out what's going on with them. And the f- the food may be so-so. We don't know. [laughs] We can't... I can't guarantee it's gonna be amazing, but just come over." And people came.

    4. SS

      Yeah.

    5. VM

      And you know what they said? They said, "Thank you for having us over. Thank you for making it okay to come to a home that's not totally spick-and-span, 'cause our home is the same way."

    6. SS

      Mm-hmm.

    7. VM

      People aren't coming for the food. They're certainly not coming for the furniture. They're coming for the company, and all you have to do is be good company.

    8. SS

      Loneliness has reached epidemic proportions. We've all felt it. Whether you dealt with yours during lockdown or whether you're dealing with it now, we have all felt lonely, which is why Dr. Vivek Murthy's work really, really matters. As surgeon general of the United States, he was one of the first medical professionals to recognize that loneliness in our nation has in fact reached epidemic proportions, and more importantly, he's committed his time in office to help us recover. As he gets ready to end his term as surgeon general, his last act in public service is a letter he released, "A Prescription for America and the World." This is A Bit of Optimism. [upbeat music] Thanks for coming, coming into the studio. It's such a... It's so good to see you again.

    9. VM

      It is so good to see you too, and I just love being in this space here. It's beautiful.

    10. SS

      Thank you. Um, so as you're

  2. 1:43 – 5:24

    The four dimensions of health: physical, mental, social, and spiritual

    1. SS

      coming to the end of your term, when you look back at, at your time in office as surgeon general, what are you proud that you were able to make a dent, and what do you hope your successor picks up and carries on, uh, after you leave? That you started it but it's just-

    2. VM

      Hmm. [clears throat]

    3. SS

      ... hasn't moved down the, the road enough yet.

    4. VM

      One of the things that I have worked hard to do during my term is to really widen the lens through which we look at health and to recognize that health is, is more than just physical, that it has to include our mental health, our social health, our spiritual health. These are all dimensions of our health and well-being that impact us. And as the years have gone by in the history of medicine, we've come to realize more and more that these things matter. There was a time, for example, in medicine where we didn't really pay much attention to nutrition-

    5. SS

      Mm

    6. VM

      ... because we didn't think it was that important, right? And it's like when I think about my own medical school education, our nutrition education was a seven-week class that met once a week in the evenings, and it was optional, right? Like, that was, like, the extent.

    7. SS

      So seven optional classes was your entire learning of nutrition in medical school?

    8. VM

      That's right. So much of what I learned-

    9. SS

      [laughs]

    10. VM

      ... I had to learn afterwards-

    11. SS

      Right

    12. VM

      ... outside on my own.

    13. SS

      Right.

    14. VM

      But that's changed. Now, you know, we're starting to recognize, hey, this is more important. So we have to continue to widen that lens, and as we understand more of what contributes to our health and well-being, my hope is that that will help inform not just our scientific understanding-

    15. SS

      Mm

    16. VM

      ... but our individual practice, how we set up and design our health systems, how we think about public health.

    17. SS

      Mm.

    18. VM

      And so my hope is that whoever comes next, uh, in this office, not just this next time around but for, you know, administrations to come, that they will also take that wide view, uh, and recognize that our mental health, our social health, that these are also important dimensions of our well-being, and they des- deserve our focus and attention.

    19. SS

      It's so surprising, isn't it? I mean, it's almost shocking that we ha- that, that t- thinking about a body, the health of a body, the health of a human being holistically, as you said, and you included spiritually as well-

    20. VM

      Mm, mm

    21. SS

      ... in your list of, of health.

    22. VM

      Yeah.

    23. SS

      A, it's amazing that, that we have to have this conversation in this modern-day and age, that it's not considered a given. We have to eat right. We have to exercise right. We have to look after ourselves. Preventative medicine-

    24. VM

      Mm

    25. SS

      ... is a real thing. How do we protect our spiritual fitness?

    26. VM

      Mm.

    27. SS

      I think that's a, a new idea. M- mental health is definitely a topic, which we know-

    28. VM

      Mm

    29. SS

      ... but spiritual fitness hasn't... I've n- I've not had that conversation yet.

    30. VM

      Social health is where we find belonging.

  3. 5:24 – 12:04

    The difference between fulfillment and success

    1. VM

      purpose, right? And the truth is that there are a lot of people right now who are going through life, and they don't necessarily have a sense of purpose. That's what the data tells us. They're looking for it perhaps. What I worry about, Simon, is when I talk to young people across our country, high school students, college students, they are essentially being led to believe that their purpose can be found in what I think of as the triad of success. Uh, and I ask them this when I, when I travel. I say, "How do you define success?" What I'm really asking them, by the way, is, "How is society defining success for you?"

    2. SS

      Mm-hmm.

    3. VM

      And they usually give some version of money, power, and fame. Those three things. That's the triad of success, and if you're successful Then that will be a source of meaning in your life, and that should be your, what drives and defines your purpose. Yet what I actually have found is much, much more, I would say, useful, uh, and it turns out consistent with the goals people have wanted to be fulfilled, is to try to fulfillment. And that's really centered around relationships, purpose, and service. And we have these two triads, and right now society is go- is really designed around the latter. That's the messages that people-

    4. SS

      Mm

    5. VM

      ... uh, young people in particular are getting online.

    6. SS

      Mm.

    7. VM

      It's what they see amplified on social media.

    8. SS

      Mm.

    9. VM

      It's like who do we write books about? Who do we make movies about? It's people who typically have achieved in those three domains. But we know-

    10. SS

      Mm

    11. VM

      ... just from real-life experience, I know just from the care I've taken of patients and listening to what they say at the end of their lives-

    12. SS

      Mm

    13. VM

      ... that the end, what endures, what ultimately drives our fulfillment are the relationships we have, are the lives that we touched, the people that we helped. Uh, it's when we connect with something bigger than ourselves that we find that deeper fulfillment. And right now, so much in society is telling young people to respond to their unhappiness by actually focusing more on themselves as opposed to-

    14. SS

      So respond to your unhappiness by res- by focusing more on the things that are making you unhappy.

    15. VM

      Yeah. It's, it's sort of a [laughs] ... I would think of it almost as a false promise, if you will. Like, there is nothing wrong with pursuing wealth or, or power or fame. There's nothing wrong with those. The problem comes when we think that those are the key to our fulfillment.

    16. SS

      Right. What have you changed in your life, like from the time you put on your uniform and started doing this research?

    17. VM

      Hmm.

    18. SS

      And sort of as you're discovering things about happiness and fulfillment and relationships and joy, and you looked at your own life and you went, "Oh, no." You know? Like, have you made any changes-

    19. VM

      Yeah

    20. SS

      ... in how you live your life as a result of the data that you've been collecting?

    21. VM

      I have, and it's partly because, you know, I'm one of those people who, you know, especially early on, was caught up in this notion of success. And I, I remember going through college and n- not investing a lot in friendships and relationships, and I'm embarrassed to say that because I really wish I had, and I have great regret about that. But it's because I was so convinced that I had to, like, put all my time into being successful, and that case is measured by am I getting good grades? Am I getting into, like, a top-notch graduate school? Am I doing all the things I need to do to set myself up for that version of success that society said was all or nothing?

    22. SS

      Mm-hmm.

    23. VM

      And I now look back on it, and I, I went to my 25th reunion a year ago, and I came away feeling, one, just gratitude for the people I had met and the friends I developed at this reunion, but also this sadness, wondering like, gosh, if I had actually focused on friendships, I would have had 25 years of these friendships rather than just meeting these people. And so what I've changed in my own life [clears throat] has actually been a lot, particularly around relationships, because I've, I've done this job twice, and I've been able to learn from my mistakes the first time. And one of the things I did the first time around is I put everything into the job and did not maintain much contact with friends, and I didn't invest enough with my family. And again, I'm not proud of that. But I saw the consequences of that, which is it not only was hurtful to my friends and not only did my family, uh, suffer, but most of all, I suffered. You know, I didn't have those lifelines that I needed.

    24. SS

      Mm.

    25. VM

      And when my time in service ended, I found myself suddenly without work, without a community, without a sense of purpose.

    26. SS

      Mm.

    27. VM

      And I felt profoundly alone.

    28. SS

      Mm.

    29. VM

      I felt profoundly lost.

    30. SS

      Mm.

  4. 12:04 – 19:39

    Why have Americans abandoned service?

    1. SS

      happened in America? Like, why did we get to this point where we sort of abandoned service? What, what transpired where we seem to have chosen ... not to pursue service. I mean, you know, what are the environmental conditions that we s- that, that our, that our mindset towards service has so prof- so profoundly changed, where we've gone from s- you know, sort of us to me, we to me? Um, I'm so curious on what, what, what you think about that.

    2. VM

      I don't think we actively decided that we're not gonna serve anymore.

    3. SS

      [laughs]

    4. VM

      Uh, I don't think we actively decided we don't care about each other anymore. But in the same way that relationships sometimes can just diminish over time out of neglect-

    5. SS

      Mm

    6. VM

      ... I think we've failed to nurture-

    7. SS

      Mm

    8. VM

      ... service in our lives, in our society. I think we assumed, "Okay, maybe that's just the way it always will be," but we didn't nurture it.

    9. SS

      Mm.

    10. VM

      We didn't build the structures that ensure that it was always a part of our lives.

    11. SS

      Mm.

    12. VM

      And I think over time, it gradually diminished. What you had instead were forces that were telling young people that, "Hey, it's a dog-eat-dog world out there. If you wanna succeed, you gotta focus on yourself."

    13. SS

      Mm.

    14. VM

      "You gotta remember who's number one."

    15. SS

      Mm.

    16. VM

      Right? Whereas... And what we fail to tell young people is that service doesn't just benefit the person you serve.

    17. SS

      Mm.

    18. VM

      It helps you tremendously. It opens up your eyes.

    19. SS

      But that's like telling people to, to, you know, only eat sugar on days that start with S, which we don't do.

    20. VM

      Mm.

    21. SS

      That's like telling people they have to exercise, which we're not good at doing. That's like telling people to save money.

    22. VM

      Mm-hmm.

    23. SS

      And we know I'm, we're notoriously bad at saving money, quote-unquote, "for rainy days."

    24. VM

      Mm-hmm.

    25. SS

      Because we don't think in t- in terms of rainy days. We think of now. And so, I mean, basically what you're asking people to do is save money. You're asking people to protect, you know, your, your relationships so that when you need them, they'll be there for you. Again, actually-

    26. VM

      So actually, what I would think of is, so slightly differently, I would think what I'm actually asking people to do is actually go to the movies today. It's equivalent of that. Like f- it's a, a source of joy today.

    27. SS

      Yeah.

    28. VM

      And the... I'm glad you brought this up because I do think sometimes we look at things like service as like the spinach you have to eat.

    29. SS

      Yeah.

    30. VM

      You may not enjoy it now-

  5. 19:39 – 31:34

    Dr. Murthy explains why lack of connection is the root of unhappiness in America

    1. VM

      our lives. And the lack of that connection to something bigger than ourselves-

    2. SS

      Mm

    3. VM

      ... I've realized is one of the important contributors to the pain and lack of fulfillment that I've encountered all over our country as surgeon general. Yes, there are economic roots of that, and yes, there are real challenges people have with safety in their communities. Like, th- these are real concerns, right? If you don't have housing, it's hard to be happy, for example.

    4. SS

      Mm-hmm.

    5. VM

      There are real challenges that people are facing, uh, you know, economically in particular. But my worry is that even if you meet all of those needs-

    6. SS

      Mm

    7. VM

      ... if you don't have relationships and purpose and engagement and service in your life, it's hard to be truly fulfilled. When we were together, uh, some time ago, uh, Simon, I shared with you just a story about my father, who told me... He told me something that really shocked me one day. He said to me, "I never really felt that sense of emptiness, that deep gnawing sense that something was missing in my life until I left my village in India." And I was surprised he said that because in his village in India, he lived in deep poverty, like did not have enough money to buy slippers or, or shoes. Uh, so he was barefoot most of the time. Uh, uh, he and his five siblings had to pour water into their bowls each night at dinner to dilute the dal, the grain, so there was enough for each child. There wasn't even enough to eat most nights. Uh, real bracing poverty, uh, that he lived in. Yet for somebody who lacked so many of those essentials to say, "I never felt that sense of emptiness until I left," was really striking to me.

    8. SS

      Mm.

    9. VM

      And I asked him why, and he said, "Well, in the village, people looked out for each other." When his mother died when he was 10 from tuberculosis, the whole village came together and became surrogate parents for him. Uh, when a kid was off doing something on the street and getting into trouble, if his parents weren't around, someone else's parents would just step in and say, "Hey, come here. What are you doing?" You know? And would discipline them, make sure that the child was safe. And people found purpose in doing that, in taking care of, of one another. The friendships that he had and that they all had with each other, they were real. They were deep. It wasn't that they didn't have disagreements or, or problems-

    10. SS

      Mm-hmm

    11. VM

      ... but they knew that they could count on each other.

    12. SS

      Mm.

    13. VM

      And when he left and he didn't have that, he felt this deep sense of emptiness.

    14. SS

      Mm.

    15. VM

      And that was one of the reasons I think when, when I was growing up, he and my mother made it a real point to teach us about the importance of community, a place where you do have real relationships-

    16. SS

      Mm

    17. VM

      ... where you help each other, have each other's backs, and in each other you find a sense of purpose.

    18. SS

      Mm.

    19. VM

      Uh, and that has remained just an enduring lesson for me in my own life.

    20. SS

      I love this story, [clears throat] but I also think that we conflate hardship and purpose.

    21. VM

      Mm.

    22. SS

      That they're not the same thing.

    23. VM

      Mm-hmm.

    24. SS

      Without a question, your father had struggle-

    25. VM

      Mm

    26. SS

      ... and he had hardship.

    27. VM

      Yeah.

    28. SS

      But... And, not but, he had community and he never felt lonely.

    29. VM

      Yeah.

    30. SS

      And I think we sometimes confuse that, um, that to have happiness or fulfillment you have to have no hardship, which is perhaps why we focus so much on money.

  6. 31:34 – 41:20

    Simon's experience in Afghanistan that changed his life

    1. SS

      opportunity to go to Afghanistan- Hmm ... during the war. Um, I was doing a lot of work for the mobility forces in the Air Force, and they, the general in charge, charge said, "Look, I love that you've gotten to spend a lot of time with us, but I really want you to see our men and women in uniform-" Hmm. "... doing their job." Mm-hmm. "Would you be willing to go to Iraq or Afghanistan?" So I said yes. And I went to Af- they chose Afghanistan. And I had no responsibility. I simply went f- and flew back, right? Mm-hmm. And, uh, I didn't tell my parents or my family that I was going to Afghanistan 'cause I didn't want them to worry. Hmm. I told them I was going away with the Air Force, true. I told them I was going to Germany, true. Hmm. I just didn't tell them that I was going- Where you going from Germany [laughs] ... from Germany to Afghanistan. And, and I told them I'd be out of touch for a while 'cause I was gonna be on a lot of planes. Hmm. True. Mm-hmm. Well, everything on that trip went wrong. Um, it was me and two escorts, two officers who went with me, and we flew in, and 10 minutes after we landed, we weren't even off the plane yet, the base came under rocket attack. Three rockets hit it about 100 yards off our nose. Oh. That's how it started. Huh. And I was weirdly relaxed because everybody around me was weirdly relaxed. Hmm. And for anybody who's ever been in a war zone, they know this, which is you have all the emotions you're supposed to have, but you don't necessarily have them at the right time. Hmm. My panic came later. And, um, I had an amazing experience. I got met a ma- a bunch of amazing people. I went and did an airdrop mission. Hmm. I sat in the back of a C-17, and we went down to low altitude, and everything swooshed out the back to supply a forward operating base. Amazing, amazing, amazing. One of life's great experiences. Then it w- the goal was to come home, and that's when I found out that there were no planes leaving. There was no planes leaving to go back to the United States or go back to Germany- Hmm ... uh, the day we were supposed to leave. And I remember feeling every fiber of my being sink. Hmm. And now the panic showed up. Hmm. Now I was convinced there was gonna be another rocket attack. I was convinced it was gonna land on me. I was convinced my parents was, would find out that I'm in Afghanistan from a, a, a, a, an Air Force officer knocking on the door. Hmm. And it's not like I can call them and be like, "Hey, I'm gonna be late. I'm in Afghanistan," right? So I k- so I'll be out of touch for days 'cause I found out the next flight out was four days from now. Oh, wow. Hmm. And we went back to our quarters, and I was exhausted. We only got, like, three hours of sleep the night before, and I sort of lay down and closed my eyes, but I couldn't sleep. And the guys I was with thought I was sleeping, so one said, "I'm gonna see if I can find another flight." Hmm. And he left. And the other one said, "Well, I'm gonna go to the gym." Hmm. And he left. Hmm. And I was lying there by myself, and my mind was racing. I couldn't relax. I was paranoid. I was afraid. I'm in the purpose business. I'm like, "All right, Simon." Hmm. "The reason you feel so disconnected is 'cause you have no sense of purpose. Come up with something like you're here to tell their story." Hmm. And I would feel good for, like, a minute. Hmm. And then the m- immediately it would fade. Hmm. And I went through all these little mental gymnastics trying to come up with purpose, and nothing was working. Hmm. And so I finally gave up. I lay in that bed and completely just quit. I resigned myself to the fact that I'm stuck here, and there's nothing I can do about it. Hmm. And I decided if I'm gonna get stuck here, I might as what make myself useful. I met a lot of amazing people. I wanna volunteer. I wanna carry boxes. I wanna sweep floors. I don't care how menial. Hmm. Whatever they want me to do, I just wanna serve those who serve others. And in that moment, I found tremendous calm. Hmm. Even, even excitement to f- to serve. And as if it were a movie, the door suddenly flew open, and it was Major Throckmorton. He's like, "I got us up on a flight. I got us on a flight, but the plane's leaving now. We have to leave now. We have to leave now. Where's Matt?" Oh. I'm like, "He's at the gym." We run to the gym. We get Matt off the treadmill. Uh-huh. We, he puts his uniform back on. We rush out to the plane to try and catch this flight. Hmm. And as soon as we get to the plane, a, a security cordon comes down. We're not allowed out to that flight. Hmm. Because s- somewhere on base, there's a fallen soldier ceremony happening. Hmm. And as is tradition, everything stops on the base. So I sat on the curb and told the guys what I went through, and I wept- Hmm ... as I told them the story. And you know this. You know, in the military, crying is perfectly fine. Yeah. Finally, a security cordon comes up. We walk out to the plane. The reason this flight didn't exist before and that we were able to get on this flight, it was an unscheduled trip for us, is we would be carrying home the soldier, the soldier for whom they just had the fallen soldier ceremony. And I flew home. It was a nine-and-a-half-hour flight back to Germany, and we were the only passengers on this flight. And I flew home and slept. Like, slept. I lay. Hmm. I couldn't sleep. I lay next to a flag-draped casket for the entire time, and it was the greatest honor of my life. Hmm. Because having just had this crazy experience where I learned what true fulfillment means. Hmm. True fulfillment is getting to serve those who serve others. I got to bring home someone who knows a lot more about service than I ever will. Hmm. And, uh, our final flight home was on a, uh, an aeromedical evacuation from Germany back to Andrews. There was a Marine in the back of the plane who was in a, on a, in a c- he was kept in artificial coma. Mm-hmm. Um, really bad shape. Really, really bad shape. And there were nurses looking after all of the ... folks on the plane, but there was a team of doctors assigned to him.

    2. VM

      Mm-hmm.

    3. SS

      And I sort of mustered up the courage to go talk to them because he was, he's... I, I had never seen a body that battered up, you know? The doc who was in charge was a reservist from Austin, and, uh, I, I asked him a question I would not have asked him had I not had the experience I just had the day before. I said, I said, "You're a good guy. You're an ER doc. You've given your life to serving others. Do you have a different feeling on these missions when you come do your military service-

    4. VM

      Hmm

    5. SS

      ... than you do back at home?" And he looked at me, he says, "They're not even close."

    6. VM

      Hmm.

    7. SS

      He goes, "90 to 95% of the people who come through the ER are either drunks or idiots." He says, "There's not, there's not a single drunk or idiot on this plane." He says, "I cannot tell you the sense of feeling of service and fulfillment I get on these missions that I cannot find at home."

    8. VM

      Hmm.

    9. SS

      And that's when I learned that the opportunity to serve those who serve others is, is service, is fulfillment-

    10. VM

      Hmm

    11. SS

      ... is joy.

    12. VM

      Hmm.

    13. SS

      And it's, and it's simple stuff. It's not complex.

    14. VM

      That, first of all, that's an incredibly powerful story, Simon. Thanks for sharing that. Again, you just, you know, just feel your state and your energy shift as you shared that. Obviously, it's still deeply moving to you. Something that I learned from a friend that we've started to do with our own kids is, uh, at dinner each night, we used to have the kids go around and just share something from their day, something that happened. And now what we ask them, "Tell us about one thing that happened today where someone helped someone. Maybe it was someone who helped you. Maybe it was you helping someone else. But just tell us about one thing that happened where somebody helped somebody today." And they have to think about it. It can be very, very small stuff. Sometimes it's, um, that they left their, their sweatshirt, you know, in the classroom and the teacher came after them to give it to them to make sure they had it. Uh, sometimes it's that, uh, you know, they forgot their lunchbox, you know, and another kid remembered, you know, and gave it to them. Uh, it can be sometimes small, small things. But what it does, what we hope it will do for them, is just imprint in their, uh, in mind-

    15. SS

      Hmm

    16. VM

      ... that these moments where we help one another, that these are important moments-

    17. SS

      Yeah

    18. VM

      ... to remember and to anchor on. I, I think more broadly, Simon, that-

    19. SS

      And you're creating incentive structure, right? Because-

    20. VM

      Yeah

    21. SS

      ... because at... even if it's for the wrong reasons.

    22. VM

      Mm-hmm.

    23. SS

      "Oh, I better take this lunchbox to the kid so I'll have something to report to dinner tonight." [both laughing] But that's okay.

    24. VM

      Yeah, it's okay. W- in my mind, it's conveying to them that it's valued.

    25. SS

      It's valued, right?

    26. VM

      That these moments are, are, are valuable and, and so they should do things and, and spend their time on things that are valued.

    27. SS

      Yeah.

    28. VM

      As kids growing up, we need to see that modeled for us.

    29. SS

      Hmm.

    30. VM

      That focus on relationships and service. We need to see a purposeful life talked about and discussed, whether it's in school, uh, or in the stories we hear, uh, you know, or, or in the books that we read. Like, this has to be part of what surrounds us-

  7. 41:20 – 50:18

    What Dr. Murthy has learned from end-of-life conversations with patients

    1. VM

      Yeah. Well, I, I think about the end-of-life conversations that I have had with patients where they know that their time is coming to a close, where there's no more treatments to prescribe, there's no more diagnostic tests to do. And sometimes I've been lucky to be with them in those last few days to just hold their hand and listen to what they're reflecting on. And what is remarkably consistent, Simon, is that they don't talk about, like, how much money was in their bank account or how big their corner office was or how many followers they had on social media. What they talk about very consistently are the people in their life, the people they loved, and the people who loved them, the people whose lives they contributed to, the people who changed them. Like, the end of our days, when only the most meaningful strands of life remain, it's so clear that it's our relationships with others. It's how we've engaged and contributed to the world. This is what makes the biggest difference.

    2. SS

      Hmm.

    3. VM

      And I try to remember that in my own life. You know, I, I, I'm, like anyone else, is subject sometimes to the environment around me and sometimes will wonder, "Am I doing enough?" You know, "Should I be talking about these other issues because people might be... care about them more? Should I..." Whatever. "Should I do something, you know, to, to g- follow that formula of success?" Uh- But then I remember these stories, and they bring me back to what really matters, and they remind me that no, those extra moments that you spent, um, with that person at that event who was really struggling, that made a difference.

    4. SS

      Mm.

    5. VM

      Or that time you take to be with your family, you know, during dinner, that time really matters.

    6. SS

      Mm.

    7. VM

      Doesn't matter if anyone else knows, doesn't matter if anyone else... If there's any monetary benefit that comes from that-

    8. SS

      Mm

    9. VM

      ... because that's not what it's about.

    10. SS

      Mm.

    11. VM

      It's about that deeper fulfillment. Um, and look, I, I think this is important. The reason I put together this prescription, Simon, is because I feel a sense of urgency around it. You know, I see so much of the pain that people are experiencing, uh, around the country, and I remember Richard Rohr's, uh, wise words, which is that, "Pain that's not transformed is transmitted."

    12. SS

      Mm.

    13. VM

      Right? When we don't address the deeper roots of our pain, we end up having it manifest in other ways that can be hurtful to us and to other people-

    14. SS

      Mm

    15. VM

      ... you know, in the end. And to me, the deeper roots of pain that we're not addressing in our society is this loneliness and isolation, disconnection from service, this disconnection from something that's bigger-

    16. SS

      Mm

    17. VM

      ... than ourselves, and that's why I feel a sense of urgency about addressing that. Um, this is something we do in our day-to-day lives sometimes here and there. I see plenty of examples of it, uh, around the country when I see neighbors helping each other after a storm. I see young people in schools, uh, who are, you know, through various programs like Beyond Differences and others, are volunteering their own time to help k- you know, fellow classmates who are struggling with loneliness and isolation. Um, you know, I've seen in Baltimore, the organization Thread is, like, bringing all of these adult volunteers together just to surround young ninth graders, uh, in Baltimore who are struggling academically.

    18. SS

      Mm.

    19. VM

      To surround them with love and with support.

    20. SS

      Mm.

    21. VM

      Um, and whatever those kids need, being picked up from school, lunch, help with tutoring, connection to resources, they're there. They're all in, right? They're like a surrogate family. I see these, and it reminds me that the core essence of what we need is there.

    22. SS

      Mm.

    23. VM

      It's that we are kind, we are generous.

    24. SS

      Mm.

    25. VM

      We are loving people.

    26. SS

      Mm.

    27. VM

      That's the essence of who we are. Sometimes we may be scared to show that because we're in a culture that tells us that love is weak, that somehow it's makes us soft. But I'm not talking about sentimental love. I'm talking about the love that Martin Luther King spoke of, the kind of love that is a muscular force-

    28. SS

      Mm

    29. VM

      ... that allows us to build movements, that enables a parent to stand in harm's way-

    30. SS

      Mm

Episode duration: 50:20

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