Simon SinekWhy This Baseball Team Has a 4.2 Million Person Waitlist With Jesse Cole | A Bit of Optimism Podcast
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 0:43
Designing for the nosebleeds: “Win the upper deck” philosophy
The conversation opens on a key Bananas principle: optimizing the experience for fans farthest from the action, not just premium seats. Sinek frames it like airlines ignoring economy, while Cole describes how the team actively goes into upper sections to create memorable moments.
- •Front-row perks are fine—until they come at the expense of everyone else
- •Bananas staff deliberately studies and serves the upper deck experience
- •“Every night is someone’s first show” sets a high standard for consistency
- •The long ticket waitlist raises the stakes for first-time attendees
- 0:43 – 2:20
What the Savannah Bananas are (and why the waitlist is so massive)
Sinek introduces the Savannah Bananas as a new genre of sports entertainment—part baseball, part live show—built with obsessive attention to fan experience. The scale is underscored by constant sellouts and a multi-million-person waitlist.
- •Bananas blend real baseball with choreographed entertainment and fan interaction
- •The product is engineered minute-by-minute for delight and momentum
- •They sell out across the country, not just in their home park
- •A 4.2M+ waitlist signals demand beyond traditional baseball fandom
- 2:20 – 5:09
The origin: solving Jesse’s boredom and building something he’d love
Cole explains that as a lifelong baseball player, he found watching the sport slow and disengaging. That personal frustration became the seed for reimagining the game as nonstop entertainment, guided by fan reactions over years of iteration.
- •Cole loved playing baseball but found watching it too slow and boring
- •Initial creative question: what if it was nonstop entertainment?
- •Entertainment elements (music, dancing, celebrations) were tested and refined
- •Best entrepreneurial ventures often solve a problem the founder personally feels
- 5:09 – 7:10
From failing small-team GM to experimenting for a decade
Cole recounts being a 23-year-old GM in Gastonia with almost no money and tiny crowds. Inspired by Disney and Barnum, he ran countless promotions—many failures—learning what created real fan excitement before the Bananas even existed.
- •Started with $268 in the bank and a few hundred fans per game
- •Reframed games as a “show” to attract non-baseball fans
- •Early growth came from wild promotions (e.g., grandma beauty pageant)
- •A decade of experimentation and failure built the foundation
- 7:10 – 8:56
Not ‘make baseball faster’—make baseball the canvas for a show
Sinek challenges the simple “faster baseball” narrative and reframes the real insight: Cole wasn’t competing with MLB rules, he was competing for attention. Cole agrees—baseball became a platform to attract people who didn’t even like baseball.
- •The core challenge was getting people to come at all
- •Baseball is the canvas; the draw is the experience
- •Clarity on audience: not for traditionalists, for families seeking fun
- •Competition is broader than sports—Netflix, games, staying home
- 8:56 – 10:37
Continuous improvement as a system: LCP and “never stale” execution
Cole outlines an operational discipline behind the creativity: doing many brand-new things every night and documenting what worked. Sinek connects it to infinite-game thinking—competing against yourself to keep raising the standard.
- •15–20 never-before-seen live elements each night
- •Post-show LCP (Learn, Change, Plus) reports on every detail
- •Goal is avoiding staleness and constantly ‘plussing’ the show
- •Philosophy is product excellence and human connection, not industry trends
- 10:37 – 11:16
Scale, culture, and the “cast”: building a place people want to work
The Bananas’ growth includes multiple teams, large touring operations, and a surprising employee waitlist. Cole emphasizes that if the experience for players/cast/fans is remarkable, business outcomes follow.
- •Six teams; 150–200 traveling; nearing ~1,000 staff total
- •14,000-person waitlist to work with the organization
- •Focus on experience for players, cast, and fans as the primary strategy
- •Sinek compares Cole to a modern-day Walt Disney
- 11:16 – 13:28
Rejecting venture pressure: purity of purpose vs growth-for-growth’s-sake
Sinek critiques venture-backed incentives and celebrates Cole’s refusal to chase liquidity events. Cole describes turning down investor groups because their goals conflict with Fans First, and recounts the early hardship that forged his conviction.
- •Venture pressure can turn private companies into ‘public market’ behavior
- •Cole has declined investment offers to protect mission and standards
- •Early Bananas period: sold two tickets, ran out of money, sold their house
- •Purpose and passion sustained a long, uncertain build
- 13:28 – 15:31
Fans First in action: grief, empathy, and a culture adopted by players
Cole tells a formative opening-night story where an 18-year-old player instinctively embodied Fans First by comforting a grieving attendee. The moment revealed the enterprise was bigger than winning and could create meaningful human connection nightly.
- •A fan requested a signed ball to honor a fiancé who had died
- •A young player rallied the entire team and sat with her for an inning
- •The phrase “Fans first, right?” became a lived standard, not a slogan
- •Shift from sport outcome to emotional impact and belonging
- 15:31 – 20:47
Why players join: second chances, identity, and playing better through fun
Cole explains that many players were cut or fell short of the majors, and Bananas gives them purpose and joy. The team stays competitive (no fixed outcomes), while show elements are continually reinvented—unlike scripted entertainment.
- •Shared experience: rejection and being told ‘not good enough’
- •Fun is treated as performance fuel; they’ve studied it internally
- •They still play to win; outcomes are real and uncertain
- •Contrast with Globetrotters: new show nightly, not repeated routines
- 20:47 – 21:45
Breaking the barrier: the pregame experience and meeting fans for hours
Cole describes an unusually long fan journey that begins hours before first pitch. Players greet and sign, an external show runs, then a full cast march creates a sense of spectacle and connection before the game even starts.
- •Gates open at 2:00 for a 7:00 PM game; players greet immediately
- •A front-of-stadium show builds momentum and anticipation
- •A large march through thousands of fans centers the experience on connection
- •The ‘first impression’ is intentionally engineered and deeply personal
- 21:45 – 27:21
Lessons from P.T. Barnum and Walt Disney: promotion and total experience design
Cole credits Barnum for understanding that a remarkable experience markets itself, and Disney for obsessing over controlled, feeling-driven journeys that are never finished. Sinek adds Disney examples (berm, newspapers, trash-can spacing) to show the power of detail.
- •Barnum: build stories and experiences people can’t stop talking about
- •‘We spend zero dollars marketing’—invest in the experience, then share it
- •Disney: map feelings like a movie; control sensory and emotional touchpoints
- •‘Never complete’ mindset—always plus the show via constant iteration
- 27:21 – 36:33
Fear, persona, and the yellow tux: permission to play (and fear of irrelevance)
Sinek asks about fear; Cole reveals it’s not financial but about losing emotional resonance. The yellow tux functions as branding and as cultural permission—leaders modeling play so everyone can take creative risks without self-seriousness.
- •Primary fear: losing relevance and emotional connection, not money
- •The yellow tux/top hat signals ‘we’re putting on a show’
- •Leader behavior grants permission for the whole organization to have fun
- •Cole stays future-focused: next quarter century, not next quarter
- 36:33 – 50:00
Access, pricing, and fighting extractive economics (Ticketmaster, parking, fees)
Sinek highlights Bananas’ affordability and anti-scalping stance as part of Fans First. Cole explains face-value resale, low ticket prices, and even free food in Savannah—while aiming to ‘control the entire experience’ end-to-end.
- •Tickets kept intentionally accessible (often $40–$60) with no junk fees
- •Built a face-value-only secondary market to prevent price spikes
- •In Savannah, tickets include free food and drinks all night
- •Ongoing battle: parking and venue-controlled costs when touring
- 50:00 – 53:46
Fan stories that define the mission: calling every buyer, grief support, and Reggie’s rise
Cole shares emblematic stories: years of personally calling ticket buyers to thank them, rallying around a widowed father and seven kids, and empowering Reggie—an eager job applicant—into a beloved ‘motivational coach.’ These stories clarify that Bananas is fundamentally about making people feel seen and included.
- •Early years: called every ticket buyer to express genuine gratitude
- •A family in mourning received special care and lasting community
- •Reggie’s persistence led to a celebrated on-field moment and ongoing role
- •Belonging and dignity are treated as part of the product, not an add-on
- 53:46 – 1:05:51
Full circle: childhood roots, Lee Smith, and “swing hard in case you hit it”
Cole recounts being a shy kid whose formative ‘fans first’ moment came from Hall of Famer Lee Smith spending time with him. Sinek connects the pattern across all stories—people sidelined by cost, grief, or rejection—and closes with a mindset of repeated courageous attempts and learning from failure.
- •Cole’s parents divorced when he was 8; baseball became the bond with his dad
- •Lee Smith’s kindness became the template for Cole’s leadership style
- •Core mantra from his dad: “Swing hard in case you hit it”
- •Innovation requires frequent at-bats—many failures produce a few ‘gold’ wins
