Your Unhappy Brain Needs Some Assistance with happiness expert Mo Gawdat | A Bit of Optimism Podcast

1. 0:00 – 0:35

   Intro

   1. SSSimon Sinek0:00

      Can you share some of the things that you've learned about this happiness practice?

   2. MGMo Gawdat0:04

      If you understand that your default setting is happy-

   3. SSSimon Sinek0:07

      Mm-hmm

   4. MGMo Gawdat0:08

      ... then there is nothing you need to bring from outside you to find happiness. You need to remove shit to be happy.

   5. SSSimon Sinek0:14

      Mm.

   6. MGMo Gawdat0:14

      And that negation strategy is quite an interesting one. So-

   7. SSSimon Sinek0:17

      Oh, that's good. This is so actionable, I love this, which is it's the reverse of, of what most people do, which is they make a list of the things that they think will bring them happiness.

   8. MGMo Gawdat0:24

      Nothing will... Yeah.

   9. SSSimon Sinek0:24

      But what you do, this, this-

   10. MGMo Gawdat0:26

       Is remove the unhappiness

   11. SSSimon Sinek0:26

       ... is you make the list of the things that are causing you stress, and you go about removing them.

   12. MGMo Gawdat0:30

       You remove the unhappiness.

   13. SSSimon Sinek0:31

       You, it's, it's a removal process, not an adding process.

   14. MGMo Gawdat0:33

       Yeah. And, and there is a reason for that.

   15. SSSimon Sinek0:34

       It's so good.

2. 0:35 – 1:50

   An intro to Mo Gawdat

   1. SSSimon Sinek0:35

      [instrumental music] Being happy is a choice, but that doesn't mean it's an easy choice. Mo Gawdat had to face that choice under the most excruciating of circumstances after the tragic death of his 21-year-old son, Ali. Mo was forced to contemplate how being happy could even be a possibility. After a meteoric and lucrative career as Chief Business Officer at Google X, he had all the money and all the power, but he was miserable. It sounds strange to say, but it took the death of his son to teach him how to find happiness. Now a bestselling author, Mo has dedicated his work to figuring out where true happiness comes from, and it starts with a powerful truth. Happiness isn't something we find, it's something we practice by choosing joy even when life hurts. This is A Bit of Optimism. [instrumental music] This episode is brought to you by True Classic. I wear their T-shirts, and have long before they became a sponsor, and it's really cool to see how their company is growing.

3. 1:50 – 4:16

   A deep start - opposing feelings

   1. SSSimon Sinek1:50

      You are living proof at an extreme level that human beings can hold two opposite feelings at the same time.

   2. MGMo Gawdat1:58

      Oh, wow. Are we starting that deep? Yes, sir, [laughs] that's actually-

   3. SSSimon Sinek2:02

      Yeah, I shouldn't start that deep, should I? I went straight in.

   4. MGMo Gawdat2:04

      Uh-

   5. SSSimon Sinek2:06

      We don't have to start there. We can even-

   6. MGMo Gawdat2:07

      No, no, we start anywhere, but it, it, I was thinking about this.

   7. SSSimon Sinek2:09

      But it's, I, when I was, when I was learning about you, you know, yeah, we could talk about tech and how you and all this-

   8. MGMo Gawdat2:15

      Mm-hmm

   9. SSSimon Sinek2:15

      ... but, but at the end of the day, one of the, uh, I learned this during lockdown.

   10. MGMo Gawdat2:19

       Yeah.

   11. SSSimon Sinek2:19

       You know, 'cause m- my business was thrown into chaos.

   12. MGMo Gawdat2:23

       I know.

   13. SSSimon Sinek2:24

       And secretly I was loving it-

   14. MGMo Gawdat2:27

       [laughs]

   15. SSSimon Sinek2:27

       ... 'cause I, I like, I like, I like chaos-

   16. MGMo Gawdat2:30

       Yeah

   17. SSSimon Sinek2:30

       ... 'cause there's creativity in chaos.

   18. MGMo Gawdat2:31

       Yeah.

   19. SSSimon Sinek2:31

       And I was having fun.

   20. MGMo Gawdat2:33

       Yeah.

   21. SSSimon Sinek2:33

       And I had tremendous guilt that I was having fun, and I didn't tell anybody I was having fun because I was also m- mourning the, the insanity and the loss-

   22. MGMo Gawdat2:41

       Yeah

   23. SSSimon Sinek2:41

       ... and death and fear, and I had, I struggled with those opposing feelings, guilt for having fun, and yet having real sadness. And I learned during lockdown, during COVID era, I learned that human beings can hold two sometimes opposing feelings-

   24. MGMo Gawdat3:02

       It's the d-

   25. SSSimon Sinek3:02

       ... at the same time

   26. MGMo Gawdat3:03

       ... it's the design of the universe, my friend. It's, uh, it is the uncertainty principle at its best. I think the idea of paradoxical existence is, uh, is probably one of the least, uh, celebrated forms of intelligence, uh, which I, I tend to believe is a bit more associated with the feminine in, you know, those who associate with the feminine will be a little more comfortable with looking you in the eyes and say, "I love you, but I fucking hate you at the same time." [laughs]

   27. SSSimon Sinek3:35

       [laughs]

   28. MGMo Gawdat3:35

       You know that feeling? And, and it-

   29. SSSimon Sinek3:36

       I, I've heard that said to me. [laughs]

   30. MGMo Gawdat3:38

       [laughs] And, and it's actually, it, it, it holds true, huh?
4. 4:16 – 20:58

   Ali's story

   1. MGMo Gawdat4:16

      Yeah.

   2. SSSimon Sinek4:16

      At the risk of going too deep too soon-

   3. MGMo Gawdat4:18

      No, go for it. [laughs]

   4. SSSimon Sinek4:19

      Um, let's back up a second and, because you and I know what we're talking about, but people on the other end may not know what we're talking about, how you at an extreme level hold two s- feeling simultaneously, um, s- s- unbelievable loss and unbelievable discovery.

   5. MGMo Gawdat4:35

      Yeah.

   6. SSSimon Sinek4:36

      Is that fair to put it that way?

   7. MGMo Gawdat4:38

      Uh, it, it would be, at the time, it would be quite challenging to call it a loss now, honestly.

   8. SSSimon Sinek4:46

      Yeah.

   9. MGMo Gawdat4:47

      So, uh, Ali Habibi, um, I have Ali and Aya, uh, my son and my daughter.

   10. SSSimon Sinek4:52

       Yeah.

   11. MGMo Gawdat4:53

       And Ali, uh, was that, one of those people that, you know, sort of overwhelmingly make you love them.

   12. SSSimon Sinek5:02

       Mm.

   13. MGMo Gawdat5:02

       Like, it is, you know those people, it's like you're trying to find something that sort of, like, breaks it a little bit.

   14. SSSimon Sinek5:09

       Yeah.

   15. MGMo Gawdat5:09

       But he had, you know, when he was [laughs] in his, uh, in his early teens, uh, Ali, most of his photographs with his friends-

   16. SSSimon Sinek5:17

       Yeah

   17. MGMo Gawdat5:17

       ... he would be standing in the middle and, like, six girls from this side and two boys and f- five girls on the other side-

   18. SSSimon Sinek5:24

       [laughs]

   19. MGMo Gawdat5:24

       ... holding him, you know? Like, literally reaching out. He had this, an incredible, incredible presence to him. And, uh, and then he leaves and, you know, he, he, he leaves our world because of a, uh, a medical malpractice, basically.

   20. SSSimon Sinek5:39

       Simplest, simplest. And, and, and, uh-

   21. MGMo Gawdat5:42

       Oh

   22. SSSimon Sinek5:43

       ... and, uh, and, uh, and, uh, shock because he, uh, he was studying in Northeastern in Boston at the time, and he, uh, had, you know, he had a band and, uh, they were touring, uh, the US, uh, in summer.

   23. MGMo Gawdat5:57

       Mm.

   24. SSSimon Sinek5:58

       And then he texts in May and says, "Hey guys, I feel obligated, I, um," verbatim-

   25. MGMo Gawdat6:05

       Yeah

   26. SSSimon Sinek6:06

       ... "to come and see you before the tour."

   27. MGMo Gawdat6:08

       Uh, and so we say, "Of course, habibi." We book his tickets. Aya, my daughter, who was studying in Canada, uh, was coming as well. I took a couple of weeks off as if almost I knew. I don't know. And, uh, then he gets an appendix inflammation, the simplest surgery ever.

   28. SSSimon Sinek6:24

       Yeah.

   29. MGMo Gawdat6:26

       And, uh, the surgeon does five mistakes in a row.

   30. SSSimon Sinek6:28

       [gasps]
5. 20:58 – 25:18

   Money and happiness

   1. MGMo Gawdat20:58

      I, I, I am probably 10% of how rich I used to be, okay? Uh, but I'm filthy rich compared to my current needs.

   2. SSSimon Sinek21:07

      Mm.

   3. MGMo Gawdat21:08

      Which is quite interesting, huh?

   4. SSSimon Sinek21:09

      Mm.

   5. MGMo Gawdat21:09

      Because there were times where I had so much money-

   6. SSSimon Sinek21:14

      Mm-hmm, mm

   7. MGMo Gawdat21:15

      ... mm, and I, you know, had to, to, to, to pour it into my depression.

   8. SSSimon Sinek21:20

      Mm.

   9. MGMo Gawdat21:20

      Okay? Or pour it into places that I was told I need to pour it into.

   10. SSSimon Sinek21:25

       Mm.

   11. MGMo Gawdat21:25

       And spend days of my week worrying about those places, right? When in reality, I need a, this is I think now at $14 or something. I have maybe 14 of those a year. Do the math.

   12. SSSimon Sinek21:37

       Mm.

   13. MGMo Gawdat21:38

       Right?

   14. SSSimon Sinek21:38

       Mm.

   15. MGMo Gawdat21:39

       And, and, and, you know, I still earn shitloads of money-

   16. SSSimon Sinek21:42

       Mm

   17. MGMo Gawdat21:42

       ... that I, uh, you know, I'm not bragging or anything, that I don't spend on myself.

   18. SSSimon Sinek21:47

       Mm.

   19. MGMo Gawdat21:48

       Okay? I spend on so many other people that need it way more than me, and it's an interesting way, mm, to find happiness, by the way.

   20. SSSimon Sinek21:55

       Did you, did you do that before or did that come after?

   21. MGMo Gawdat21:57

       I di- I did that quite a bit of my life, but I became quite extreme, to the point that, you know, business people like you would think of me as completely mad.

   22. SSSimon Sinek22:07

       Uh, you, first of all, your first mistake is thinking that I'm a business person.

   23. MGMo Gawdat22:10

       Okay. [laughs] So good. [laughs]

   24. SSSimon Sinek22:12

       [laughs] And your second mistake, thinking that I would think that was mad.

   25. MGMo Gawdat22:15

       Yeah, I-

   26. SSSimon Sinek22:16

       I think, I think part of the joy of making money-

   27. MGMo Gawdat22:19

       Is to give it away

   28. SSSimon Sinek22:19

       ... is to, is to share it.

   29. MGMo Gawdat22:20

       Yeah.

   30. SSSimon Sinek22:20

       Is to give it away. And it's really funny, you know, I, I, I, um-
6. 25:18 – 27:08

   Money Is just a symbol

   1. MGMo Gawdat25:18

      It, it, money is just a symbol. It is what it represents to you, right? And, and so you'll find that someone who comes from poverty, for example, uh, if he's, you know, $100 million worth, those $100 million to him represent a risk, right?

   2. SSSimon Sinek25:34

      Yeah.

   3. MGMo Gawdat25:34

      And I know many people who are like that, right? If you come from poverty, there is no way you can stop and s- and tell yourself, uh, "Am I now safe?"

   4. SSSimon Sinek25:42

      Yeah.

   5. MGMo Gawdat25:43

      Okay? Uh, if you come from, um, you know, a, a, a, um, um, a teenage years where you were the slightly chubby, maybe, you know, bullied a little bit, uh, uh, child, mm, then money to you is in your face.

   6. SSSimon Sinek25:59

      Right.

   7. MGMo Gawdat25:59

      Okay? If you're the one that, you know, struggled to because you were the geek and, you know, the bad boys were getting the girls and, you know, you're, you're n- you're now a, a founder of a tech startup, money to you represents more girls.

   8. SSSimon Sinek26:12

      Right.

   9. MGMo Gawdat26:12

      Right?

   10. SSSimon Sinek26:12

       Right.

   11. MGMo Gawdat26:13

       And, and, and, and the whole idea is that for most people, as I said, you, you, we struggle to find the, to, to define the context.

   12. SSSimon Sinek26:22

       Yeah.

   13. MGMo Gawdat26:22

       Uh, and specifically when, when the seasons change.

   14. SSSimon Sinek26:25

       Yeah.

   15. MGMo Gawdat26:25

       Right? So, so, you know, the, when, when you're running and your method of acquiring money is being very precise about every calculation and every cent, uh, you know, you may become a multi-zillionaire and still go to the supermarket and go like, "Oh, they're ripping me off on two cents, I'm gonna walk to the next one." Right? While some others would-

   16. SSSimon Sinek26:46

       Mm

   17. MGMo Gawdat26:46

       ... simply say, "Well, you know what? Uh, two cents is not a big deal for me, but also, by the way, next time I'll go to the next one."

   18. SSSimon Sinek26:53

       Yeah.

   19. MGMo Gawdat26:53

       Right? And while others will simply say, "Hey, you know what? I don't care. Uh, I'm so l- rich and famous now, I don't care about the, the two cents." And is, e- each of those a- approaches, it can be judged by us because we're not them.

7. 27:08 – 34:34

   Be aware that life comes in seasons

   1. SSSimon Sinek27:08

      Right.

   2. MGMo Gawdat27:08

      Right? But the trick is to ask yourself, "Where am I? Mm, where, where am I in terms of why do I do what I want to do?"

   3. SSSimon Sinek27:17

      Mm.

   4. MGMo Gawdat27:18

      And I think I, I learned this in a, in a, in, in my MBA. I had a, a professor of, um, operations management who worked at Chrysler, uh, in the '70s.

   5. SSSimon Sinek27:29

      Back in the day.

   6. MGMo Gawdat27:29

      Yeah. And, and he basically was, uh, you know, talking about operations and when the Japanese entered the American market and how, uh, you know, they started to optimize everything.

   7. SSSimon Sinek27:39

      Mm.

   8. MGMo Gawdat27:39

      Like, you know, instead of the, this nut and bolt having four turns to be locked, let's make it three turns and, you know, now we've shaved off a quarter of a second and, right? And then he basically w- would, would go like, "But then the Japanese replaced the, the, the, the bolt with a clip, and so it, it doesn't even take a, a fraction of a second."

   9. SSSimon Sinek28:00

      Mm.

   10. MGMo Gawdat28:00

       Okay?

   11. SSSimon Sinek28:01

       Mm.

   12. MGMo Gawdat28:01

       And, and, and, and he started to talk about why were we doing-

   13. SSSimon Sinek28:05

       Mm

   14. MGMo Gawdat28:05

       ... the things that we were doing.

   15. SSSimon Sinek28:07

       Mm.

   16. MGMo Gawdat28:07

       Okay? And I think that applies to life in such a massive way.

   17. SSSimon Sinek28:12

       Mm.

   18. MGMo Gawdat28:12

       Each and every one of us, if we really sit down, and I do that on Saturdays, to observe the seasons of your life, that you're not that teenager that was bullied anymore, or that you're not that, you know, young businessman that was s- you know, trying to prove, as you, were quickly acquiring and learning the three letter acronyms in the company when you walked in-

   19. SSSimon Sinek28:34

       Mm

   20. MGMo Gawdat28:34

       ... to try and appear that you know more than you don't.

   21. SSSimon Sinek28:36

       Mm.

   22. MGMo Gawdat28:36

       More, more than, more than you actually do. And I, and I think the, the, the trick is you fail, you fail to observe that something has changed.

   23. SSSimon Sinek28:44

       This is good. You're talking about going to the cause rather than the symptom, right? I mean, that's-

   24. MGMo Gawdat28:47

       100%

   25. SSSimon Sinek28:47

       ... that's what this is. I mean, do you, I mean, you, you might know the story, again, it goes back to the sort of the, when the Japanese started sort of overtaking the American market and the Toyota way. And of course, j- just as a quick aside, the Americans completely misunderstood the Toyota way.

   26. MGMo Gawdat29:02

       Yeah.

   27. SSSimon Sinek29:02

       First of all, we called it lean.

   28. MGMo Gawdat29:04

       Mm-hmm.

   29. SSSimon Sinek29:04

       No. N- no.

   30. MGMo Gawdat29:06

       Mm-hmm.
8. 34:34 – 36:10

   True Classic: An ad with authenticity

   1. SSSimon Sinek34:34

      Today's episode is brought to you by True Classic, and this ad that you're about to hear isn't really like a normal ad. I sat down with Ryan, their CEO, and we had a conversation about his journey, about the lessons he's learned, so that we could use some of those clips to share with you. We call it an ad with authenticity.

   2. SPSpeaker34:52

      We have five core pillars as a company. Going fast is literally number one. So when people come aboard, they already know the deal. It is every single day we're moving and shaking on a million things, juggling a ton of plates. But, um, you know, what I've learned what really works for us in terms of people is that entrepreneurial DNA. When they come in and they start making moves, 'cause it's really, it's what they know best, right? When you're an entrepreneur, you just get in, you start problem-solving, start figuring it out. Those are the people that thrive in our environment. The ones that don't work out come from the legacy apparel brands. When they come in and they're just like-

   3. SSSimon Sinek35:29

      Too corporate

   4. SPSpeaker35:29

      ... "This is chaos, guys. Like, I can't thrive in this." And then other people come in and they don't want anything else but the chaos. They just love it, 'cause every day is kinda new.

   5. SSSimon Sinek35:39

      So you're, you're capturing my favorite thing about the entrepreneurial journey, which is what most people don't realize is that being a small business owner and being an entrepreneur are not the same thing.

   6. SPSpeaker35:49

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SSSimon Sinek35:49

      You know? Being a small business owner means you just own a small business. Being an entrepreneur means you're a problem solver, and there are entrepreneurs in corporations, right?

   8. SPSpeaker35:56

      Mm-hmm.

   9. SSSimon Sinek35:56

      The, it's, it's a mindset rather than an ownerships, you know. And what people forget is that if you're a creative person, creativity is finding order in chaos.

9. 36:10 – 39:13

   Tragedy is a nudge

   1. MGMo Gawdat36:10

      Tragedy is an interesting one. You, you have to, uh, uh, um, you know, you have to make an, a, a, an except-

   2. SSSimon Sinek36:15

      Or pain, pain

   3. MGMo Gawdat36:16

      ... uh, uh, I, I call it a nudge.

   4. SSSimon Sinek36:19

      A nudge.

   5. MGMo Gawdat36:20

      Yeah. A nudge is, um... you know, when you, when you, you, you're half American, half British, so you know both, right?

   6. SSSimon Sinek36:26

      Yeah.

   7. MGMo Gawdat36:26

      In, in, you know, in, in America, if a, if a road is a little, uh, sloping upwards, right, and you're walking that road, that basically is what needs, what America is so celebratory of, uh, grit.

   8. SSSimon Sinek36:41

      Mm-hmm.

   9. MGMo Gawdat36:41

      Right? You need to try harder, okay?

   10. SSSimon Sinek36:43

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   11. MGMo Gawdat36:44

       You come into the UK, and it's all roundabouts, right?

   12. SSSimon Sinek36:47

       Mm-hmm. [laughs]

   13. MGMo Gawdat36:47

       And, [laughs] and, and the idea is you get into a roundabout-

   14. SSSimon Sinek36:50

       Mm

   15. MGMo Gawdat36:51

       ... and sometimes y- you get in and you want to go out on the third exit, but life closes that exit.

   16. SSSimon Sinek36:56

       Yeah.

   17. MGMo Gawdat36:56

       Right? And so you keep turning in the roundabout, insisting to hit the third exit. But life is telling you, "Hey, you know, the fourth is open. Can you try that?"And you keep saying, "No, I'm going to s- you know, f- go around and around and around until the third one is open for me," because you're so stubbornly, uh, uh, preoccupied by your current season, right? Life is telling you change of season, new exit, new life, new exploration, new experiences, right? And it's so interesting, mm, that when we continue to resist, life goes like, "Fourth? Do you wanna go from the fourth ex- like se- fourth?" And you don't, so it nudges the hell out of you. It gives you, it literally shoulders you out through a loss-

   18. SSSimon Sinek37:41

       But again-

   19. MGMo Gawdat37:41

       ... through pain, through depression, through burnout, through... Right?

   20. SSSimon Sinek37:45

       I love all of this, and you're talking about serendipity, you're talking about, uh, open-mindedness, you're talking about what happens when the plan doesn't go according to plan, which is, by the way, always.

   21. MGMo Gawdat37:56

       [laughs] Exactly.

   22. SSSimon Sinek37:57

       You know? Uh, w- what's the joke, you know, if you wanna make God laugh, tell him your plans.

   23. MGMo Gawdat38:00

       Yeah, exactly.

   24. SSSimon Sinek38:01

       Um, you know, what, I, I, I... I'm with you, but I'll go back to the original question, which is why does it take loss, heartache, pain, hurt, age, time to learn these lessons? And we, we know that that's not empirical because we knew that, we know that Ali didn't have any of those things to come to his magical disposition.

   25. MGMo Gawdat38:26

       Yeah.

   26. SSSimon Sinek38:26

       What was it about this teenager who had such clarity of life and a calmness that was so attractive to people, it made him so loved and lovable? What, what is it? Why does it take... You see what I'm trying to get to, which is how can young people learn the lessons that we, that, that, like... L- look, there's a good... You wrote a book about happiness because I have to believe in some part of you, you said, "I don't want other people to go through what I've gone through to learn the lessons I've learned."

   27. MGMo Gawdat38:58

       Of course.

   28. SSSimon Sinek38:58

       "So I'm gonna write them down so you can learn the lessons without."

   29. MGMo Gawdat39:01

       Yes.

   30. SSSimon Sinek39:01

       That, there, there's a, there's a, the-
10. 39:13 – 45:08

    Happiness is a choice

    1. MGMo Gawdat39:13

       when you really think about it, and simply because I find that happiness is a choice.

    2. SSSimon Sinek39:17

       Yeah.

    3. MGMo Gawdat39:18

       Okay? You know, I, I can, you know, I can tell you what works.

    4. SSSimon Sinek39:21

       You can lead the horse to water.

    5. MGMo Gawdat39:22

       Yeah.

    6. SSSimon Sinek39:22

       You can lead the horse to water, but they're gonna have to choose it.

    7. MGMo Gawdat39:24

       Right? And, and-

    8. SSSimon Sinek39:24

       And it's, it's foolhardy to say everybody

    9. MGMo Gawdat39:26

       ... and, uh, it's, and it's so arrogant to believe that everyone would make that choice. I mean, when I go and speak in France or in Poland-

    10. SSSimon Sinek39:33

        Yeah

    11. MGMo Gawdat39:33

        ... I kid you not, the first question I get at the end of the session is, "Well, we, we, we get, we get the, uh, the, the logic is, is works, you know, but, uh, why? Why happiness?" And I'm like, "Seriously?" Seriously, people go like, "Happiness is a sign of weakness. We're supposed to be here, you know, fighting it out." Okay? And, and I, you know, I, it's really-

    12. SSSimon Sinek39:57

        But you don't question that. You don't argue with them. It's their choice.

    13. MGMo Gawdat39:59

        I, I, if you, if they can't-

    14. SSSimon Sinek40:01

        You shrug your shoulders and say-

    15. MGMo Gawdat40:02

        They can't make the choice

    16. SSSimon Sinek40:03

        ... live your life.

    17. MGMo Gawdat40:04

        Yeah. I, you know, I, I simply-

    18. SSSimon Sinek40:05

        You're not there to convince anybody

    19. MGMo Gawdat40:07

        ... I, exactly. I simply say, "Well, if, you know, I'm, I'm here to teach the technique if you so choose." Right? Uh, but that also applies to management and leadership.

    20. SSSimon Sinek40:16

        Yeah.

    21. MGMo Gawdat40:16

        Okay? It also applies to war and peace. Mm. Unfortunately, there are, there is, you know, for some of us, there is one, a, an arrogance that what you know is, is, is true, and two, a refusal to, uh, to, to, to see the world from any other perspective. Okay? And, and, you know, three, interestingly, the drive to live based on that lack of awareness. Okay? Uh, I don't remember who was it, Jack Welch or someone, that used to say, uh, you know, you hire people for three things, their passion and, uh, and their energy and their, uh, uh, intentions or something like that. If the third is wrong, the first two will kill you.

    22. SSSimon Sinek41:01

        Mm.

    23. MGMo Gawdat41:01

        Right? Uh, you know, basically-

    24. SSSimon Sinek41:04

        Mm

    25. MGMo Gawdat41:04

        ... ba- basically if people have the intention to walk into a company, and I hired people like that in my life before, where their only objective is, "I'm going to play politics and backstab everyone and go up the ladder," right? And they're intelligent-

    26. SSSimon Sinek41:17

        With energy and passion

    27. MGMo Gawdat41:18

        ... yeah. And, and they're very intelligent and energetic and passionate and, and so on. They'll use their intelligence and their passion and, and, you know, n- not benefit anyone at all. Okay? And I think what we humans do in life is we do that to ourselves. We, we are told at a point in time that a lot of money and a Ferrari is something that you need to have.

    28. SSSimon Sinek41:37

        Yeah.

    29. MGMo Gawdat41:37

        Right? And, and some of us, you know, get to question that, like Ali, okay, who's very reflective and, you know, who would look at things and go like, "I, I really don't want a Ferrari." And I, I actually, you know, when Ali graduated, I, I was a freaking spoiled rich brat.

    30. SSSimon Sinek41:56

        Yeah.
11. 45:08 – 53:49

    Challenge vs. privilege

    1. MGMo Gawdat45:08

       inter- interesting. Last year was a very challenging year for me. January, I lost my sister.

    2. SSSimon Sinek45:12

       Oh.

    3. MGMo Gawdat45:12

       And then, uh, I ... My sister-in-law, but she really is my sister.

    4. SSSimon Sinek45:16

       Mm.

    5. MGMo Gawdat45:16

       You know? Uh, w- I, I met her for the first time when I was a young teen, and she really truly was a sister to me. Uh, then, uh, you know, she had a heart attack next to my brother's, uh, bed, who was suffering with cancer.

    6. SSSimon Sinek45:32

       Mm.

    7. MGMo Gawdat45:33

       Uh, two months later, he was cured from cancer, but still left, left our world. He had a, an unexpected ulcer. And then two months later, I lost my mom.

    8. SSSimon Sinek45:41

       Mm.

    9. MGMo Gawdat45:42

       Uh, which, you know, you sort of, you sort of think that you've now, you know, become strong enough after losing Ali, and then life goes like, "No, hold on. I, I can-"

    10. SSSimon Sinek45:56

        [laughs] I'll prove you wrong.

    11. MGMo Gawdat45:57

        "I can, I can show you, I can show you variety," right?

    12. SSSimon Sinek45:59

        [laughs]

    13. MGMo Gawdat46:00

        And so I'm sitting with my, one of my best friends, Alexandra, and Alexandra is, uh, Serbian, so she's very direct.

    14. SSSimon Sinek46:06

        Yeah.

    15. MGMo Gawdat46:06

        Okay? A wonderful young lady who is so honest, so kind. You know, we love each other for, you know, 13 years friends and so on.

    16. SSSimon Sinek46:15

        Yeah.

    17. MGMo Gawdat46:15

        And so I'm sitting there with my philosophical face on, saying, "You see how vulnerable life is?" And she goes like, "You're gonna be fine. You're not gonna die." And I'm like, "What?" And she goes like, "You, you're doing good in the world. The world benefits from you. You're probably gonna live a little longer." It's like, "A- Alex, you don't know that." And as I'm trying to explain if you know or you don't with my philosophical face, she says, "But I can guarantee you, you have a few ... You know, you have very few good years in you." I was like, "What?" And she said, "You know those road trips that you always talk to me about? Uh, well, I can tell you, you have seven to nine years where you can take a long one in whichever car you want, and if you wanna take it in a sports car, probably three years, so chop-chop." Very, very eye-opening, I'll tell you, I'll tell you that. I mean, uh, truth is, I, I, I was ... I, I lived so many lives, Simon. It's just scary when you really think about it. But, you know, I'm Egyptian, born and raised in Egypt, public school, public university in Egypt. Uh, you know, I shouldn't have become, uh, the, the, the chief business officer of Google X. If you take any mathematical probabilities, it's close to impossible.

    18. SSSimon Sinek47:25

        Mm-hmm.

    19. MGMo Gawdat47:26

        Uh, a- and yet I lived, and I lived a rich life, and I lived a l- a simple life, and I've, you know, I've m- I've lived months of my year, uh, years of my, my life where at the end of the month, you know, we, we could barely make ends meet and, you know, it's, it is ... I lived. Mm. Uh, and, and somehow, mm, in all of those lives, if you, if you remember the only thing that you, we started the conversation with, was when life was interestingly engaging. I don't wanna call it challenging, mm? It's interestingly engaging, where you sit down and you go like, "How can I make this go the furthest for me and those that I love?" Okay?

    20. SSSimon Sinek48:07

        Mm.

    21. MGMo Gawdat48:08

        And, and I think the challenge is, with experience over the years, fewer and fewer and fewer and fewer things stress you. Fewer and fewer and fewer things challenge you, okay? You, you know-

    22. SSSimon Sinek48:21

        Just 'cause you've been ... You've, you've-

    23. MGMo Gawdat48:23

        You've-

    24. SSSimon Sinek48:23

        It's familiar

    25. MGMo Gawdat48:24

        ... you, you've learnt it, right?

    26. SSSimon Sinek48:25

        Yeah, like the-

    27. MGMo Gawdat48:26

        And-

    28. SSSimon Sinek48:26

        Like, "Oh, this again. I know this one"

    29. MGMo Gawdat48:28

        ... I, I have seen this one. Uh, you know, this one is different, but it's the same fabric.

    30. SSSimon Sinek48:33

        Yeah.
12. 53:49 – 55:55

    How to practice happiness

    1. SSSimon Sinek53:49

       Can you share some of the things that you've learned about this happiness practice-

    2. MGMo Gawdat53:54

       Yeah

    3. SSSimon Sinek53:54

       ... that we, that people can implement?

    4. MGMo Gawdat53:57

       Look, happiness to me is-

    5. SSSimon Sinek53:59

       I f- I like the f- I, I mean, I think, look, you, you said it f- which is happiness is a choice. If, so number one is you have to choose to, that you wanna be happy, right?

    6. MGMo Gawdat54:06

       So happiness is a choice, and happiness as your default setting is the most important two, uh, assumptions, if you wanna, uh, look at them that way. Uh, so, so u- understand this. Every child is born happy, right?

    7. SSSimon Sinek54:17

       [laughs]

    8. MGMo Gawdat54:17

       Uh, so your, your, your default operating system is happy. Of course, you know, some children may be exposed to violence when they're in the womb, right?

    9. SSSimon Sinek54:25

       Sure, sure.

    10. MGMo Gawdat54:25

        So, so but if, if you're, if you're-

    11. SSSimon Sinek54:27

        All things being equal.

    12. MGMo Gawdat54:28

        Oh, yeah. Oh, exactly.

    13. SSSimon Sinek54:29

        [clears throat]

    14. MGMo Gawdat54:29

        If you're just coming, uh, out of the box, um, you know, u- u- unboxing a child, the child's-

    15. SSSimon Sinek54:35

        [laughs]

    16. MGMo Gawdat54:35

        ... default setting is happy, right?

    17. SSSimon Sinek54:36

        Right.

    18. MGMo Gawdat54:37

        It, it cries when it has a reason to cry.

    19. SSSimon Sinek54:40

        Right.

    20. MGMo Gawdat54:40

        Okay? Feed it, and it will go back to happy, you know, playing with their toes, looking at the ceiling, and that's it, right? Uh, you were that child, too.

    21. SSSimon Sinek54:50

        Mm-hmm.

    22. MGMo Gawdat54:50

        And then, and then as you went on through life, w- I, uh, do, do you remember Supertramp?

    23. SSSimon Sinek54:56

        Of course.

    24. MGMo Gawdat54:57

        Oh, yeah. In, in English. [laughs]

    25. SSSimon Sinek54:59

        Oh, oh, oh. Oh, I know Supertramp.

    26. MGMo Gawdat55:00

        Yeah. So, so-

    27. SSSimon Sinek55:01

        Breakfast in America is one of the great all-time songs

    28. MGMo Gawdat55:03

        ... 100%, 100%.

    29. SSSimon Sinek55:05

        [laughs]

    30. MGMo Gawdat55:06

        And, and Roger Hodgson is, is an amazing artist.
13. 55:55 – 57:32

    Remove unhappiness

    1. MGMo Gawdat55:55

       right? The, basically, life as a child, when you don't overthink things, you're happy.

    2. SSSimon Sinek56:00

       Yeah.

    3. MGMo Gawdat56:01

       Okay? And then you start to become cynical and critical, and you sort of learn to succeed in life, and we humans are very capable, mm? You tell me the target is to succeed, then go like, "Yep, absolutely." And most of us remember that, huh? That you, probably into your 20s, you were not that upset with anything. This generation is because of the amount of, of, of negativity we pour on them. Uh, so, so if you understand that your default setting is happy-

    4. SSSimon Sinek56:30

       Mm-hmm

    5. MGMo Gawdat56:30

       ... mm-hmm, then there is nothing you need to bring from outside you to find happiness.

    6. SSSimon Sinek56:33

       Mm.

    7. MGMo Gawdat56:33

       You need to remove shit to be happy.

    8. SSSimon Sinek56:35

       Mm.

    9. MGMo Gawdat56:36

       Okay? And, and, and that negation strategy is quite an interesting one. So-

    10. SSSimon Sinek56:40

        Oh, that's good

    11. MGMo Gawdat56:41

        ... yeah, so I'm, I, I'm sitting there, mm, uh, I, you know, I basically take the rest of the day off, and I start to look back at the things that, you know, wha- I, I'm s- like, yeah, when I was young it seemed that life was so wonderful. So, so I keep going back. When I was 18 I was happy, when I was 16 I was happy, when I was four I was happy, when I was two I was happy.

    12. SSSimon Sinek57:03

        Yeah.

    13. MGMo Gawdat57:03

        Right? There were things that upset that happiness, but I went back to happy.

    14. SSSimon Sinek57:06

        But this goes back to, I, I love this, right? And this is so actionable, I love this, which is it's the reverse to, of what most people do, which is they make a list of the things that they think will bring them happiness.

    15. MGMo Gawdat57:15

        Nothing will, yeah.

    16. SSSimon Sinek57:15

        But what you do, this, this y-

    17. MGMo Gawdat57:17

        Is remove the unhappiness

    18. SSSimon Sinek57:18

        ... is you make the list of the things that are causing you stress, and you go about removing them.

    19. MGMo Gawdat57:22

        You remove the unhappiness.

    20. SSSimon Sinek57:22

        It, it's a removal process-

    21. MGMo Gawdat57:24

        Yeah

    22. SSSimon Sinek57:24

        ... not an adding process.

    23. MGMo Gawdat57:24

        And, and there is a reason for that.

    24. SSSimon Sinek57:25

        So good.

    25. MGMo Gawdat57:26

        There is a reason for that, okay? Nothing ever from outside you, this is, you know, rule number two or assumption number two, huh?

14. 57:32 – 1:01:51

    Nothing external brings you happiness

    1. MGMo Gawdat57:32

       Uh, uh, nothing from outside you will bring you happiness. Why? Because nothing has an inherent value of happiness within it.

    2. SSSimon Sinek57:39

       Right.

    3. MGMo Gawdat57:39

       Right? Take anything in, in life, you know, rain, okay? Rain cannot make you happy or unhappy.

    4. SSSimon Sinek57:47

       Right.

    5. MGMo Gawdat57:47

       Right? If it's your ex-f- girlfriend's wedding, it makes you happy.

    6. SSSimon Sinek57:50

       There's no, there's no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing.

    7. MGMo Gawdat57:53

       G- oh, yeah, it n-

    8. SSSimon Sinek57:54

       [laughs]

    9. MGMo Gawdat57:54

       ... and no in- inappropriate intention.

    10. SSSimon Sinek57:57

        Yeah.

    11. MGMo Gawdat57:57

        Desires, right?

    12. SSSimon Sinek57:58

        Yeah.

    13. MGMo Gawdat57:58

        So if y- you know, if you, if you want, mm, a, a classic car, I love to restore classics and I lose money on them all the time. Um, you know, if you want a classic car to make money on it, mm?

    14. SSSimon Sinek58:09

        Yeah.

    15. MGMo Gawdat58:09

        You're gonna be unhappy all the time, mm. If you want a classic car because you love, love the art of restoring it, you'll be happy, right? If you, if you, if you want a classic car s- because you want to drive all the time without breaking, you'll be unhappy.

    16. SSSimon Sinek58:23

        [laughs]

    17. MGMo Gawdat58:24

        Right? A- and, and, and, and, and everything else, huh? If you want rain, rain makes you happy.

    18. SSSimon Sinek58:31

        Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

    19. MGMo Gawdat58:32

        If you don't want rain, rain makes you unhappy. So mathematically, that means the equation is not one parameter. It's not what life gives you.

    20. SSSimon Sinek58:39

        Yeah.

    21. MGMo Gawdat58:39

        Okay?

    22. SSSimon Sinek58:40

        It's intentional.

    23. MGMo Gawdat58:40

        It's what life gives you-

    24. SSSimon Sinek58:41

        Intentional perception

    25. MGMo Gawdat58:41

        ... in comparison to what you want life to give you.

    26. SSSimon Sinek58:43

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    27. MGMo Gawdat58:44

        Right? And so I wrote that in Solve for Happy very clear, straightforward. I said, "Your happiness is equal to or greater than the difference between the events of your life and your expectations of how life should be."

    28. SSSimon Sinek58:53

        Say that again slowly.

    29. MGMo Gawdat58:55

        Your happiness is equal to or greater than the difference between the events of your life-

    30. SSSimon Sinek59:00

        Yeah
15. 1:01:51 – 1:04:44

    How to trick an unhappy brain

    1. SSSimon Sinek1:01:51

       Yeah

    2. MGMo Gawdat1:01:51

       ... uh, you know, if you hear your brain saying, "This is shit"-

    3. SSSimon Sinek1:01:55

       Yeah

    4. MGMo Gawdat1:01:55

       ... okay, ask your... This is, by the way, your brain's tendency, because your brain is a survival machine.

    5. SSSimon Sinek1:02:01

       Sure.

    6. MGMo Gawdat1:02:01

       We u- we use it to invent iPhones, right? But, but it is first and foremost a survival machine. It wants to know what's wrong with life so that it can work on it, right? Because what's wrong is what makes you unsafe, right?

    7. SSSimon Sinek1:02:12

       Right. Right.

    8. MGMo Gawdat1:02:12

       So when your brain tells you, as per its nature, you know, this, uh, uh, uh, um, you know, the, the, the traffic is shit-

    9. SSSimon Sinek1:02:21

       Yeah

    10. MGMo Gawdat1:02:21

        ... okay?

    11. SSSimon Sinek1:02:21

        Yeah.

    12. MGMo Gawdat1:02:21

        Ask it and say, "What's good about the traffic?" Right? "What is good about this?"

    13. SSSimon Sinek1:02:25

        Yeah.

    14. MGMo Gawdat1:02:26

        And w- it will comply.

    15. SSSimon Sinek1:02:27

        Yeah.

    16. MGMo Gawdat1:02:28

        Fir- first it will say, uh, "Yeah, and th- London taxis are annoying." N- no, I asked you what is good about this.

    17. SSSimon Sinek1:02:33

        Yeah.

    18. MGMo Gawdat1:02:34

        Okay?

    19. SSSimon Sinek1:02:34

        Yeah.

    20. MGMo Gawdat1:02:34

        And if you insist, so my, my, my practice is I used to for-

    21. SSSimon Sinek1:02:37

        I can listen to Supertramp

    22. MGMo Gawdat1:02:39

        [laughs]

    23. SSSimon Sinek1:02:39

        [laughs]

    24. MGMo Gawdat1:02:39

        Exactly. A lot of, a lot of Supertramp. Or I can sing it in my head. My practice used to be, you know, for every negative thing that my brain gives me-

    25. SSSimon Sinek1:02:46

        Yeah

    26. MGMo Gawdat1:02:47

        ... okay, it is obliged to give me a good one, right?

    27. SSSimon Sinek1:02:50

        So you play the game, it's like, okay-

    28. MGMo Gawdat1:02:51

        100%

    29. SSSimon Sinek1:02:52

        ... y- it's a zero sum. I- if you're giving me negative, I want positive. Play.

    30. MGMo Gawdat1:02:54

        100%.
16. 1:04:44 – 1:06:38

    A little secret to life

    1. SSSimon Sinek1:04:44

       I know one of the things that I do is I, and I, I do this consciously, which is I try and, I try and pay attention to little things, and I, and it's to the point now where it's almost automatic.

    2. MGMo Gawdat1:04:54

       Yeah.

    3. SSSimon Sinek1:04:54

       And when I say little things, I mean, like, you have no idea how small, right? Like, making breakfast in the morning.

    4. MGMo Gawdat1:05:01

       Oh.

    5. SSSimon Sinek1:05:02

       Right? The, the sounds of putting the coffee in the coffee pot, and filling up the jug, and putting it on the coffee machine, and the clinks and the clanks and the drags and the, and the swishes. I'm really present and attuned that I'm not just going through the motions of making coffee, but I'm paying attention as if it's a choreography, as if it's a piece of dance.

    6. MGMo Gawdat1:05:20

       You have-

    7. SSSimon Sinek1:05:20

       And listening

    8. MGMo Gawdat1:05:21

       ... found the secret to life.

    9. SSSimon Sinek1:05:23

       And, and these m- I mean, I'm making coffee in the morning, something I do every single day, and I find joy in the s- not every day, because then it would become mundane, right? Because I'm trying to avoid the mundane, but every now and then I'll pay so much attention and I smile. It, I smile.

    10. MGMo Gawdat1:05:40

        You have found the secret to life. Do, do, do you have the same coffee every day?

    11. SSSimon Sinek1:05:44

        Yeah.

    12. MGMo Gawdat1:05:44

        No, I never have. I never do that.

    13. SSSimon Sinek1:05:46

        You j- mix it up?

    14. MGMo Gawdat1:05:47

        Yeah. So every morning before I make coffee, I spend 10 minutes trying to feel what I feel today, and accordingly which coffee I want.

    15. SSSimon Sinek1:05:53

        I make coffree, coffee... I don't, I have the same coffee every day. I have Optimism coffee because I love it.

    16. MGMo Gawdat1:05:59

        [laughs]

    17. SSSimon Sinek1:06:00

        [laughs] Uh, and I made it. Um, but I, uh, um, I make it differently.

    18. MGMo Gawdat1:06:09

        There you go.

    19. SSSimon Sinek1:06:09

        So it'll be the same coffee, but sometimes I'll put it in the drip coffee. Sometimes I'll sort of let it-

    20. MGMo Gawdat1:06:14

        All right. Yeah

    21. SSSimon Sinek1:06:14

        ... drip. Sometimes I'll-

    22. MGMo Gawdat1:06:14

        Yeah. Exactly

    23. SSSimon Sinek1:06:15

        So I, I have different-

    24. MGMo Gawdat1:06:16

        Same beans, but different

    25. SSSimon Sinek1:06:17

        ... c- ca- a ca- a cafe press.

    26. MGMo Gawdat1:06:18

        Yeah.

    27. SSSimon Sinek1:06:19

        And I don't know why. It tastes slightly different.

    28. MGMo Gawdat1:06:21

        It does.

    29. SSSimon Sinek1:06:21

        But, but sometimes it's just the thing that I feel like ma- doing.

    30. MGMo Gawdat1:06:26

        100%. Now, so, so, so I, I say you found the secret to life. Why? Because, um, th- think about it this way, huh? We, we said now is always amazing. The problem with our,

17. 1:06:38 – 1:10:43

    The root of unhappiness

    1. MGMo Gawdat1:06:38

       most of our unhappiness comes from that incessant thinking.

    2. SSSimon Sinek1:06:40

       Yeah.

    3. MGMo Gawdat1:06:41

       Okay? That idea of living in the past or the future. Now-

    4. SSSimon Sinek1:06:44

       Yeah

    5. MGMo Gawdat1:06:44

       ... th- there is an interesting exercise people need to think about, mm. Uh, take any emotion, and, and it's a very good exercise to reflect on with yourself. Take any emotion. You feel the emotion right now, but the emotion has a temporal anchor, right?

    6. SSSimon Sinek1:07:00

       Mm-hmm.

    7. MGMo Gawdat1:07:00

       The anchor is reg- regret, for example, is anchored in the past. It's about something that happened in the past.

    8. SSSimon Sinek1:07:05

       Right.

    9. MGMo Gawdat1:07:05

       Right? Uh, f- uh, fear or anxiety is about anchored in the future.

    10. SSSimon Sinek1:07:09

        Right.

    11. MGMo Gawdat1:07:09

        If you write them all down, you'll find that the majority of the f- emotions that make you feel negative are anchored in the past and the future.

    12. SSSimon Sinek1:07:16

        Right.

    13. MGMo Gawdat1:07:17

        And the majority of the emotions that make you feel positive are in the present.

    14. SSSimon Sinek1:07:20

        Right.

    15. MGMo Gawdat1:07:21

        Right? Calm is in the present. You know, excitement is in the present, and so on and so forth.

    16. SSSimon Sinek1:07:25

        Right.

    17. MGMo Gawdat1:07:25

        Right? Now, it's quite interesting because past and future don't exist.

    18. SSSimon Sinek1:07:30

        Right.

    19. MGMo Gawdat1:07:31

        Past and future are, uh, uh, uh, neural constructs-

    20. SSSimon Sinek1:07:35

        Yeah

    21. MGMo Gawdat1:07:35

        ... that you create within your own head. They, you cannot give them life-

    22. SSSimon Sinek1:07:38

        Right

    23. MGMo Gawdat1:07:39

        ... mm, unless you create them inside your own head.Okay? When yesterday happened, you called it y- you called it today. When tomorrow eventually happens, you're gonna call it today. You're always in-

    24. SSSimon Sinek1:07:49

        You're always in now

    25. MGMo Gawdat1:07:50

        ... the present.

    26. SSSimon Sinek1:07:50

        Yeah.

    27. MGMo Gawdat1:07:50

        Right?

    28. SSSimon Sinek1:07:50

        Yeah.

    29. MGMo Gawdat1:07:50

        Now, h- here's the trick. The trick is if you get yourself to that presence, mm, it, to be here and now, here and now, most of the time there's absolutely nothing wrong, unless you're in a war zone, unless you have a chronic pain, unless you have a, you know, you're going through a tough period of your time physically, uh, or whatever, most of the time there's nothing wrong.

    30. SSSimon Sinek1:08:11

        And e- and even in those periods, there's moments of rest and respite.
18. 1:10:43 – 1:13:52

    The art of doing nothing

    1. MGMo Gawdat1:10:43

       never remember.

    2. SSSimon Sinek1:10:43

       One of the things that's really helped me is, and it took a while, to shed the guilt of, of wanting time to myself, right?

    3. MGMo Gawdat1:10:52

       Oh, my God.

    4. SSSimon Sinek1:10:52

       'Cause we're in a hyper-productive, you know, you gotta, y- y- if you're not using your time to make something, do something, achieve something-

    5. MGMo Gawdat1:10:57

       Oh, my God

    6. SSSimon Sinek1:10:57

       ... hit some sort of, then you're a loser, right? And, uh, and I would sometimes wake up pretty early on a weekend, and I would sit in bed till noon. And I'm, I mean, like, so I maybe w- woke up at 8:00.

    7. MGMo Gawdat1:11:11

       Yeah.

    8. SSSimon Sinek1:11:11

       So I, and I'm talking about, like, maybe I read the newspaper, maybe I played a game.

    9. MGMo Gawdat1:11:15

       But you, you-

    10. SSSimon Sinek1:11:15

        Did the crossword puzzle, played some games, maybe I made a phone call. I would sometimes go downstairs, get a cup of coffee, and get back into bed. And when people would be like, "What'd you do to- today?" Because it was, like, 2:00 o'clock and I met somebody for, you know, for, for brunch or something. Um, I'm like, I s- and I was, I'd be like, "Uh, I sat in bed." And they're like, "What a waste of a day," they would say to me.

    11. MGMo Gawdat1:11:34

        Seriously?

    12. SSSimon Sinek1:11:35

        I know. And, um, um, and then I got to the, and I would have this guilt, and I got to the point where I was like, you know what? It's my life, it's my morning, it's my weekend. I'm allowed to do whatever I want, and if I choose to sit in bed all morning and do something completely that the world would judge as unproductive, so be it.

    13. MGMo Gawdat1:11:54

        [laughs]

    14. SSSimon Sinek1:11:54

        And I gotta tell you, I love sitting in bed-

    15. MGMo Gawdat1:11:59

        Doing nothing

    16. SSSimon Sinek1:11:59

        ... all morning.

    17. MGMo Gawdat1:12:01

        I'll, I'll give you-

    18. SSSimon Sinek1:12:01

        I love, I love it

    19. MGMo Gawdat1:12:02

        ... I'll, I'll give you two examples.

    20. SSSimon Sinek1:12:03

        And, and so what? Or, or I could go do something, but-

    21. MGMo Gawdat1:12:05

        So-

    22. SSSimon Sinek1:12:05

        It's like my activity is to be in bed. [laughs]

    23. MGMo Gawdat1:12:10

        So today, uh, yeah, what is th- that song? Today I'm just not doing anything, right? Uh, the, the, the, the-

    24. SSSimon Sinek1:12:15

        The activity of doing the-

    25. MGMo Gawdat1:12:16

        Nothing

    26. SSSimon Sinek1:12:17

        ... well, w- where nothing is the thing.

    27. MGMo Gawdat1:12:19

        Yeah, so I, I do 40 days of silence every year, so I, I just go somewhere and-

    28. SSSimon Sinek1:12:23

        All in a row? [laughs]

    29. MGMo Gawdat1:12:26

        All in a row. All, one, there's no-

    30. SSSimon Sinek1:12:26

        'Cause I could probably do 40 days of silence if you added up my whole life. [laughs]
19. 1:13:52 – 1:22:31

    Mini silent retreats

    1. SSSimon Sinek1:13:52

       A day, a weekend

    2. MGMo Gawdat1:13:52

       ... I suggest to people what I call the mini silent retreats-

    3. SSSimon Sinek1:13:54

       Yeah

    4. MGMo Gawdat1:13:54

       ... which is my Saturdays.

    5. SSSimon Sinek1:13:56

       Oh, okay. Oh, perfect.

    6. MGMo Gawdat1:13:57

       You set, you set, you set your alarm until, uh, to 2:00 or 3:00 PM and you have a half a day to yourself.

    7. SSSimon Sinek1:14:03

       Totally legit, because that scares a lot of people to hear, "I have to be quiet"

    8. MGMo Gawdat1:14:06

       Of course

    9. SSSimon Sinek1:14:06

       ... "and talk, not engage with anybody from the time I wake up till 2:00 PM."

    10. MGMo Gawdat1:14:09

        Because you know what happens.

    11. SSSimon Sinek1:14:09

        Yeah.

    12. MGMo Gawdat1:14:09

        The, the minute you do that, you engage with who? Your brain.

    13. SSSimon Sinek1:14:12

        Right.

    14. MGMo Gawdat1:14:12

        And your brain attacks you, right? And the whole idea is, and so I c- I call it Meet Becky, mm? So, so one of, one of my famous techniques is I, I call my brain a third n- a third party name.

    15. SSSimon Sinek1:14:23

        Yeah.

    16. MGMo Gawdat1:14:23

        Right? So Becky was m- the most annoying girl in school, right?

    17. SSSimon Sinek1:14:26

        [laughs]

    18. MGMo Gawdat1:14:27

        So, so, so literally, you know, you know those people that walk to you all the time and just say annoying things-

    19. SSSimon Sinek1:14:31

        Yeah

    20. MGMo Gawdat1:14:32

        ... and then walk away with no solutions?

    21. SSSimon Sinek1:14:34

        Yeah.

    22. MGMo Gawdat1:14:34

        Right? That's your brain. It's like, it's just, "Uh, by the way, you're fat." Now why, brain? Why did you say this, right? And, and the trick here is when you restrict Becky, when you restrict your brain, mm, your brain pushes harder. It's a bit like that friend that texts you at 7:00 p- at 7:00 AM and go, and goes like, "Hey, I have this great idea. Like t- call me," and, and you're asleep at 7:00, right?

    23. SSSimon Sinek1:14:57

        Yeah.

    24. MGMo Gawdat1:14:57

        Or you're doing something. Well, and then by 9:00 AM, they've texted you 60 times.

    25. SSSimon Sinek1:15:01

        Yeah.

    26. MGMo Gawdat1:15:02

        And you go like, "Hey, I'm walking to a meeting. Can I text you back at 10:30?"

    27. SSSimon Sinek1:15:07

        Yeah.

    28. MGMo Gawdat1:15:07

        And they'd say, "Yeah, fine. No problem whatsoever."

    29. SSSimon Sinek1:15:09

        Yeah, yeah.

    30. MGMo Gawdat1:15:10

        Right? That's your brain, mm? So what I do is I go to my brain and I go like, "Hey, by the way, Sa- part of Saturday, tell me all the shit that's going on."
20. 1:22:31 – 1:32:35

    Mo’s happiness mission—1 billion happy

    1. MGMo Gawdat1:22:31

       Exactly. So I, I, as a creative person myself-

    2. SSSimon Sinek1:22:32

       Which is, which is ironic

    3. MGMo Gawdat1:22:34

       ... okay, as a creative, so I, I finish Google X 2018. Uh, Solve for Happy is now an international bestseller. Like, by then it was half a million copies or something.

    4. SSSimon Sinek1:22:43

       Amazing.

    5. MGMo Gawdat1:22:43

       And, and, and now I'm, like, running my One Billion Happy mission literally like an executive. Like, of course-

    6. SSSimon Sinek1:22:49

       But that's not a good thing, is it?

    7. MGMo Gawdat1:22:50

       It's not at all, right? And then someday, some- sometime in 2019, I text my team and I go like, "Guys, the season has changed." Right? I'm not an executive anymore. I'm now a creative person that wakes up frequently at 3:00 AM-

    8. SSSimon Sinek1:23:04

       But this is-

    9. MGMo Gawdat1:23:04

       ... inspired to write something

    10. SSSimon Sinek1:23:06

        ... but this is interesting, right? Which is, which is you're now on the, on the, the, the happiness mission, except you're treating it like an executive, and I know people who, you know, they run businesses about, you know, meditation or... a- and yet they're stressed out.

    11. MGMo Gawdat1:23:22

        Yeah. [laughs]

    12. SSSimon Sinek1:23:23

        And, like, the irony of all of these people I keep meeting who have these missions, and yet they are feeling the opposite of what they're espousing.

    13. MGMo Gawdat1:23:30

        Yeah.

    14. SSSimon Sinek1:23:31

        And so how can you run your business more like a philosophical practice and rather like, than a business? 'Cause you yourself know-

    15. MGMo Gawdat1:23:40

        It's, it's a, it's a, it's an interesting thought, which is mo- which moves the macro target to a micro target. So think about this, huh? I can only do the absolute best that I can do every day, and if I directionally know where I'm heading, by adding those days up, I'll get as far as I can.

    16. SSSimon Sinek1:24:00

        So can I push you a little bit?

    17. MGMo Gawdat1:24:01

        Of course. Yeah.

    18. SSSimon Sinek1:24:01

        What if there's no target?

    19. MGMo Gawdat1:24:03

        There is no target. There is an inspiration. Aspiration meaning One Billion Happy is, I'm not gonna, I'm never gonna make it happen.

    20. SSSimon Sinek1:24:09

        And you're not really counting, because there's no way to count.

    21. MGMo Gawdat1:24:11

        There are ways to count, because the mission is actually determined very clearly, yeah? And we don't, we're not measuring video views, or we'd have achieved the billion happy a long time ago. We're measuring people that get the message and then take an action, an action that is-

    22. SSSimon Sinek1:24:24

        But you can't calculate that number.

    23. MGMo Gawdat1:24:25

        You can estimate, right? You can e- they either take an action by going and watching other videos. So I convinced you that you need to be happy, so you start to look for other videos about happiness, or you take an action by watching the video and forwarding it, so you believe others will be happy.

    24. SSSimon Sinek1:24:40

        Mm.

    25. MGMo Gawdat1:24:40

        Right? Not, not great, right?

    26. SSSimon Sinek1:24:43

        I mean, forwarding it, "Boy, this guy's an idiot."

    27. MGMo Gawdat1:24:45

        [laughs]

    28. SSSimon Sinek1:24:46

        And you calculated that as a win.

    29. MGMo Gawdat1:24:47

        May- may- maybe.

    30. SSSimon Sinek1:24:48

        [laughs]

Episode duration: 1:32:35