Dara Khosrowshahi, CEO, Uber

1. 0:00 – 0:05

   Intro

   1. LFLepi Jha Fishman0:00

      [ on-hold music]

2. 0:05 – 0:51

   Audience warm-up and Uber usage poll

   1. LFLepi Jha Fishman0:05

      Thank you so much for being here.

   2. DKDara Khosrowshahi0:06

      Happy to do it.

   3. LFLepi Jha Fishman0:07

      We're thrilled to have you today. Obviously, a lot of excitement here. Let's just take a quick poll. Uh, how many of you use Uber?

   4. SPSpeaker0:14

      [laughs]

   5. DKDara Khosrowshahi0:16

      Awesome.

   6. LFLepi Jha Fishman0:16

      Okay, that's like 100%.

   7. DKDara Khosrowshahi0:18

      I'm gonna clock you. Thank you.

   8. LFLepi Jha Fishman0:19

      How many of you use Uber, used Uber this week? Right. Like, that's like-

   9. DKDara Khosrowshahi0:24

      Nice

   10. LFLepi Jha Fishman0:24

       ... 80, 90. So this feels like what our professors are talking about-

   11. DKDara Khosrowshahi0:28

       I love it

   12. LFLepi Jha Fishman0:29

       ... when they are teaching us about product market fit.

   13. DKDara Khosrowshahi0:32

       Now, how many of you have used Uber Pool? Wow, pretty good.

   14. LFLepi Jha Fishman0:37

       75.

   15. DKDara Khosrowshahi0:38

       Yeah.

   16. LFLepi Jha Fishman0:38

       Yeah, pretty good.

   17. DKDara Khosrowshahi0:39

       Yeah. It's great.

   18. LFLepi Jha Fishman0:39

       Pretty good. So we have so much to talk about today. I would love to start, you know, with Iran, but then eventually move on to IAC, Allen & Co, Expedia, Uber.

   19. DKDara Khosrowshahi0:50

       Sounds great.

3. 0:51 – 3:25

   Immigrating from Iran: assimilation lessons and finding belonging through sports

   1. LFLepi Jha Fishman0:51

      Great. So starting from the beginning, um, your family sev- was 7,500 miles away from here in the Bay Area-

   2. DKDara Khosrowshahi0:58

      Mm-hmm

   3. LFLepi Jha Fishman0:58

      ... in Iran, and that's where you grew up. They were running a hugely successful conglomerate.

   4. DKDara Khosrowshahi1:02

      Yes.

   5. LFLepi Jha Fishman1:02

      In 1978, you ended up having to flee, eventually seeking asylum here in the United States.

   6. DKDara Khosrowshahi1:08

      Yeah.

   7. LFLepi Jha Fishman1:09

      When you got here, you didn't speak fluent English.

   8. DKDara Khosrowshahi1:12

      No.

   9. LFLepi Jha Fishman1:12

      Sometimes you introduced yourself as Darren Kaye instead of Dara Khosrowshahi.

   10. DKDara Khosrowshahi1:16

       Those were dark days, yes. [laughs]

   11. SPSpeaker1:18

       [laughs]

   12. LFLepi Jha Fishman1:20

       How did, how did the challenge of assimilation shape you as a leader?

   13. DKDara Khosrowshahi1:25

       Uh, so I think first of all, I was a, I was a kid. I was nine years old.

   14. LFLepi Jha Fishman1:29

       Right.

   15. DKDara Khosrowshahi1:29

       And, and I think that, um, children, as you know, are much more flexible and they can as- uh, assimilate much more easily into any situation, different situations. But I, I was also, I was also the y- the youngest brother, and I was one of the younger cousins in the family. So I was very, very low on the totem pole, and I had to assimilate even before I came to the States.

   16. LFLepi Jha Fishman1:53

       [laughs]

   17. DKDara Khosrowshahi1:53

       Uh, whatever was going on, I had no, no say in the matter. Um, and coming to the States for us, what we had was, we always had family, and that was a constant and, and is a constant for me, uh, in that really, I, I certainly was thrown into a new environment, but I was, I always had the protection of family to come home to. Uh, we were very lucky to have a very strong education in Iran, and we continue to have a strong education, uh, in the US. Um, I learned a lesson that if you don't understand what someone is saying, uh, the answer is no, not yes, 'cause when, whenever... It's an Iranian thing, you always wanna say yes. So I'd have no idea what someone was saying. I'd be like, "Yes, yes," and then I'd be, like, playing football someplace-

   18. LFLepi Jha Fishman2:40

       [laughs]

   19. DKDara Khosrowshahi2:41

       ... having no idea how to catch a ball. Um, but, but, you know, we, we... For me, the assimilation that really got us in was through sports. Uh, and, uh, we played... Soccer was kind of the, the game of the world, uh, and not so popular in the US. So we were regarded as soccer gods at my high school.

   20. SPSpeaker2:59

       [laughs]

   21. DKDara Khosrowshahi3:00

       Uh, and, uh, and that's how we got to know a lot of other kids and, and really assimilated into the school.

   22. LFLepi Jha Fishman3:06

       Do you keep up with sports?

   23. DKDara Khosrowshahi3:07

       Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I'm a, I'm a... Of course, I'm a big Premiership soccer fan, so that's my... I wake up at 5:30 in the morning. My wife says I'm crazy, but she's good with it.

   24. LFLepi Jha Fishman3:15

       [laughs] So it's hard to know your personal identity. You came here as a child, and you found your way. It's also hard to know your professional identity.

   25. DKDara Khosrowshahi3:25

       Yeah.

4. 3:25 – 6:18

   Finding a mentor: Barry Diller, “go to the source,” and betting on people

   1. LFLepi Jha Fishman3:25

      And, um, you know, when you were at Allen and Company, you met Barry Diller.

   2. DKDara Khosrowshahi3:31

      Yes, yes.

   3. LFLepi Jha Fishman3:31

      And he has a reputation where some comment that he is demanding but loyal. You identified him as someone you wanted as a mentor. How did you know that, and what advice can you give us on cultivating mentorship?

   4. DKDara Khosrowshahi3:45

      Yeah, sure. I mean, he, he was, um, um, he, he was my first true mentor. Uh, and, and the way that I met him at Allen Company, we were... Uh, I was a young analyst, uh, working on a deal. This was, um, a hostile tender offer that Barry had launched for Paramount Pictures. He was running QVC. Um, there was a deal for Viacom, which was a big conglomerate, is a, is a big conglomerate, to buy Paramount Pictures. Uh, and Barry was really interested in the, in the combination of commerce and entertainment. Uh, and when that, when Paramount became in play, he went after it, and I was an analyst on the deal. Uh, and he's like this giant Hollywood mogul and, and, and th- this was a really dramatic offer where we were making bids and then they'd make bids, et cetera. It was a very competitive public, uh, battle for control of this highly strategic asset at the time. And, and the, and the thing that I remember about Barry is somehow he found out and... You know, he would deal with an SVP who would... had a VP, an associate, and somehow he found out that I was running the deal model. Uh, that was this... And I was on the trading floor, just this nobody, and he found out that I was running the deal model, and he comes up to me and he's like, "You're, you're the one running the deal model, right?" "Yes, Mr. Diller." Uh, and he's like, "Okay, I want you to explain to me exactly how it works." Uh, and I said, "When?" He said, "Right now." And of course, when Barry Diller says, "Right now," you say, "Okay." Uh, so I sat down with him, and he wanted to know everything about the deal model from the person who had actually built it. Uh, and he took the time, and, and, and I learned as I got to know Barry, that one of the things that he really believes in is going to the source, that every time you get information that is filtered, you lose fidelity in the information. Uh, and this was a really important deal for him, uh, and he, instead of being comfortable with someone who would present information to him in a perfectly clean and comfortable way, he wanted to be uncomfortable with an unknown, but knowing that he'd be closer to the truth. Uh, and that was how our relationship started, and, and he would like come to me on the deal model. Are we bidding too much? Are we bidding too little? He was making the decisions, but he really wanted to go to the source and, and understand kinda the core of the subject

5. 6:18 – 8:19

   From Allen & Co to IAC: being pulled into a bigger role

   1. DKDara Khosrowshahi6:18

      matter. Uh, we lost that battle. Um, and I still remember his, uh ... He, he, he released a statement saying, uh, "We lost, they won. Next." You know? And when I read that thing, I'm like, "I wanna be a part of next." Uh, so with that, he, um, went after he... We, we went after a bunch of other deals and machinations. Uh, and when the predecessor company to IAC was born, it was Home Shopping Network at the time, he sold QVC, took control of Home Shopping Network. Uh, we closed on a very large deal to buy an entertainment business, uh, Universal Television, and at that point he said, "Well, I want you to work exclusively, exclusively, exclusively as my deal person." Um, I said, "I can't do that. I've got a portfolio." He said, "I want, I want your portfolio to be me." Uh, and I said, "Well, then give me a job." And he said, "Let's go." So that's when I, I jumped on board with him, and, and the, the... One lesson that I learned from Allen & Company, Herbert Allen was the, is, uh, was the CEO at the time. He always said that as an investor, he didn't bet on companies, he bet on people. You know, he just said, "Bet on people. I make my bet on people." And I think one lesson for me that I took away was I wasn't an investor. I was an employee, right? But instead of making a bet on the job or instead of making a bet on the company, I was making a bet on a person. And I said, you know, "Barry Diller, this is a person that I wanna work with. Whatever you want me to do, I'll do it." And I followed him and it was, you know, it's been a great decision of my life.

   2. LFLepi Jha Fishman8:02

      And he eventually sponsored you and-

   3. DKDara Khosrowshahi8:04

      Yes, very much so

   4. LFLepi Jha Fishman8:05

      ... and tapped you to be the CEO of Expedia.

   5. DKDara Khosrowshahi8:08

      Yeah, yeah.

   6. LFLepi Jha Fishman8:08

      And this is 14 years out of college.

   7. DKDara Khosrowshahi8:11

      I guess so, yeah.

   8. LFLepi Jha Fishman8:12

      [laughs] Um, and it's-

   9. DKDara Khosrowshahi8:14

      Must've been desperate.

   10. LFLepi Jha Fishman8:16

       Well, you proved yourself, right?

   11. DKDara Khosrowshahi8:17

       Yes, yes.

6. 8:19 – 11:35

   Running Expedia: growth, competition, and painful lessons from Booking

   1. LFLepi Jha Fishman8:19

      Um, at Expedia you grew the business from 2 to $10 billion over 13 years.

   2. DKDara Khosrowshahi8:25

      Mm-hmm.

   3. LFLepi Jha Fishman8:26

      It's very impressive. At the same time, your competitor, Priceline, they, they were a distant competitor-

   4. DKDara Khosrowshahi8:33

      Yeah

   5. LFLepi Jha Fishman8:33

      ... at the time you started being CEO.

   6. DKDara Khosrowshahi8:35

      Yeah.

   7. LFLepi Jha Fishman8:35

      And then eventually actually became the leader-

   8. DKDara Khosrowshahi8:39

      Yes

   9. LFLepi Jha Fishman8:39

      ... in the online travel agency space.

   10. DKDara Khosrowshahi8:40

       It's very painful even to hear you say it, yes.

   11. LFLepi Jha Fishman8:42

       [laughs] They grew to four times-

   12. DKDara Khosrowshahi8:45

       Yes

   13. LFLepi Jha Fishman8:45

       ... the size of Expedia, not to ru- [laughs] uh, when, when you left.

   14. SPSpeaker8:48

       [laughs]

   15. DKDara Khosrowshahi8:49

       God, twist the in. Jesus.

   16. LFLepi Jha Fishman8:51

       [laughs] All right, so you had so many successes.

   17. DKDara Khosrowshahi8:54

       Yes.

   18. LFLepi Jha Fishman8:55

       I'm curious, you know, what you think your key wins were, and what you would've done differently.

   19. DKDara Khosrowshahi9:00

       Um, so I, I think I'll, I'll talk about, uh, uh, booking.com since or Price- uh, well it's now Booking Group, uh, since you brought it up. This was a company that we looked at, um, and, and Expedia was one of the big players in the travel industry that was growing incredibly quickly. Uh, and we were taking on kind of the offline travel agents and the, and the, and the traditional players. Um, and what we saw with booking.com was a player who had very, very low margins. Uh, and what prevented us from ultimately competing with them the way that we should've, uh, was that we didn't want to give up our own fat margins, you know, to be frick. Uh, and it goes to the whole issue of the innovator's dilemma. Uh, we saw this business and, listen, we had an opportunity to buy them just like Priceline actually bought booking.com and booking.com became 95% of the business and they've renamed the business booking.com. We had the same opportunity to buy that company. But in looking at that company, our team kind of pooh-poohed it because it was a less, uh, the unit economics of that model didn't look as good. And instead of looking at that as an asset, our team looked at it as a liability. Uh, and for me that's a very important lesson in that it's, it's much easier for a business to make all the tough decis- decisions and shape their business based on low economics and low margins and then expand. Um, and expansion is inevitably faster if you have a low price product, especially in the internet world where, you know, price is something that is easily discoverable. Um, it's much easier to go from low margin and expand than be the high margin, uh, player and then slowly bring your margin down. Um, we did bring our margin down over a long period of time, but if I had to do something quicker, I would've done it, I would've taken the pain up front, I would've done it faster. Uh, and I think that for us as a company when we started taking that margin pain and when we started really rethinking our business, uh, not as a travel company but as a technology company, that was the turn that Expedia had to go through, uh, to create value for us. But it's absolutely a les- lesson learned which is, you know, low margins are an asset, they're not a liability. Um, and, and to lose that cost discipline ultimately is gonna cost you, uh, market share over the long term.

7. 11:35 – 14:13

   Engineering margin change and rebuilding Expedia as a technology-led operator

   1. LFLepi Jha Fishman11:35

      When did you realize that and when, and when, how, how quickly did you adapt at Expedia?

   2. DKDara Khosrowshahi11:40

      Um, y- you know, we, we realized it actually pretty quickly.

   3. LFLepi Jha Fishman11:44

      Okay.

   4. DKDara Khosrowshahi11:44

      Uh, and, and the issue was that we had to go from a situation where a transaction was worth, call it 25% to 15%, so we had to essentially engineer 40% of our, of our revenues out of the model. Uh, and that was a process that took us, uh, it took us a couple of years to realize and then we started engineering it. Uh, over a period of two or three years. Uh, what allowed us to engineer it was really making the bet on, uh, our core technology platforms. Uh, and for me, one of the toughest things that I went through at Expedia was that, uh, Expedia was a holding company, a number of different brands within the holding company, uh, and the largest part of the business was expedia.com. Uh, flagship full service online travel agency. Uh, and I had failed twice in finding a leader for that business. Uh, found a person, didn't work out, brought on another person, didn't work out. Uh, and this was a particularly tough time for me and the board, and I went to the board and Barry, I said, "Well, I've gotta bring in another person. If I'm oh for three, I think you should fire me." Uh, Barry said, "You're damn right." Uh, so I said, "Well then, my third pick is gonna be me. I don't understand what it takes to run this business. Uh, I've ... And the only way I'll understand is if I run it for a while." So I, I was the CEO of the corporate parent, and then I was, I was the CEO, the operational CEO of expedia.com. Uh, and I learned more during those four or five years when I ran expedia.com than I ever learned in my life. Uh, and I learned what it really means to operate a company. I learned what it really means for business and technology to come, to come together, um, to really take risks, to really accelerate the rate of innovation within a company operationally. Um, and once we started turning expedia.com around, the company overall started turning around, and I was lucky enough then to hand that business off to the CTO of expedia.com at the time, who's still running that business. So that was the real big turn and, and for me it was a great learning opportunity. And I w- I, I know I would not be in this spot had I not made the mistake of not being able to find the right person to run expedia.com.

   5. LFLepi Jha Fishman14:05

      Moving on from Expedia, which-

   6. DKDara Khosrowshahi14:07

      From that painful, uh-

   7. LFLepi Jha Fishman14:08

      [laughs]

   8. DKDara Khosrowshahi14:09

      ... loss to Booking. Thank you.

   9. LFLepi Jha Fishman14:10

      Well, it, it's a win in the end, right? Two to 10.

   10. DKDara Khosrowshahi14:13

       Yes.

8. 14:13 – 18:31

   Interviewing for Uber CEO: setting expectations through transparency

   1. LFLepi Jha Fishman14:13

      Um, so in August 2017-

   2. DKDara Khosrowshahi14:16

      Yeah

   3. LFLepi Jha Fishman14:16

      ... not too long ago, the Uber board selected you to be their CEO.

   4. DKDara Khosrowshahi14:21

      Yes, yes.

   5. LFLepi Jha Fishman14:22

      And I would presume that each of you, the board and yourself, had requests of each other. Reportedly Barry Diller helped you during this three-week negotiation process.

   6. DKDara Khosrowshahi14:33

      Very much so, yeah.

   7. LFLepi Jha Fishman14:34

      Um, you know, what-

   8. DKDara Khosrowshahi14:34

      Well, it wasn't a negotiation process, it was an interview process really.

   9. LFLepi Jha Fishman14:38

      Okay.

   10. DKDara Khosrowshahi14:38

       Yeah.

   11. LFLepi Jha Fishman14:38

       All right. Um, well I'm curious about ... Either way, we can talk about the negotiation-

   12. DKDara Khosrowshahi14:44

       Mm-hmm

   13. LFLepi Jha Fishman14:44

       ... or the interview. Um, but I'm most curious about the negotiation, and if you can offer us any advice on negotiating job offers, although on a much smaller scale.

   14. DKDara Khosrowshahi14:53

       [laughs]

   15. SPSpeaker14:54

       [laughs]

   16. DKDara Khosrowshahi14:55

       Well, let me tell you. Um, so I, it, one of the advantages that, that I had in, uh, in approaching this role was that I had a great job already, and I loved what I was doing, uh, at, at Expedia, and I really wasn't looking to, to jump ship. Uh, and it was both part of the interview process and the negotiation process where, you know, during the in- interview process I was just dead honest about what I brought to the table, uh, and, and what I thought I needed in order to succeed at the company. Uh, a- and I still remember it was a, the, there was the various candidates and, and there were other candidates who were much better known than... You know, they were like capital letters candidates that came in and presented to the board. Uh, and, and I made a presentation to the board where I talked about my expectations of the board. Uh, and part of the expectations for the board were, you know, what happens in the boardroom stays in the boardroom, doesn't get tweeted out someplace, right? Um, and also that, uh, with, with the founders of the company being very much a part of the company spirit and culture and what built that company, if they really wanted a new leader of that company, they needed, it needed to be very clear who the leader was. Uh, and that I expected the board to be there for me. Um, but, uh, I needed the freedom to maneuver appropriately and make changes that I felt needed to be made quickly, because this was a tough situation. Um, so I was very straight w- with the board about those issues, and I remember one of the board members after the meeting said, "You know, all of it was great, but that, that page was really ... It was not, not such a great..." It was not that well received by the board. I said, "Well, if it wasn't that well received, then I'm glad, because this is important to me." Uh, and for whatever reason, you know, maybe they ignored that page. But I, I, I just think that when, when you get into a situation, um, in a new opportunity or you're, or a, a new opportunity that, that presents itself, you know, being transparent about your own capabilities, uh, and, and I think you've gotta go first. Um, and hopefully then getting the transparency back from, from the other party that you're talking about. Ultimately it's a win-win, because you never wanna get yourself in a position where, um, uh, where you're at the wrong job, you don't have the capabilities, et cetera. Uh, and, and vice versa. You know, it's a, it's a loss for both parties. So I've taken this ... You know, one thing that I've learned from Barry is, is he's just the most transparent person on earth. He just lays it out there. Um, I think you, you, Diane von Furstenberg was here and, you know, I hear she was pretty transparent about a lot of things.

   17. LFLepi Jha Fishman17:57

       [laughs]

   18. SPSpeaker17:57

       [laughs]

   19. DKDara Khosrowshahi17:57

       Um, it's just, it, it's, it's part of that, that core culture that, that he taught me. Um, it's something that I took to that board. We had some very frank discussions about expectations both ways, and it's something that since I've taken to the company. Um, I think in the second town hall that we had as a company I actually took my board presentation and I presented it at the all hands. I said, "This is me. This is actually what I talked to the board about, and it's the same deck, uh, and you know, this is, this is what you're gonna get with me." And then we go on from there.

9. 18:31 – 22:24

   Redefining “winning”: taking the shot, building with a team, and choosing impact

   1. LFLepi Jha Fishman18:31

      As you said, it is tough. It was a tough decision-

   2. DKDara Khosrowshahi18:34

      Yeah, very much so

   3. LFLepi Jha Fishman18:34

      ... to, to move to Uber from Expedia.

   4. DKDara Khosrowshahi18:36

      Yeah.

   5. LFLepi Jha Fishman18:37

      You had a clear idea of what you wanted. Um, in one of, one of our most sought after classes here at the GSB called Leadership Perspectives with Joel Peterson and Charles O'Reilly, we often ask visiting leaders what winning is to them. Um, you know, you traded the top job at Expedia-

   6. DKDara Khosrowshahi18:54

      Yeah

   7. LFLepi Jha Fishman18:54

      ... where you were very happy and just doing tremendous things for this job at Uber, which some in the press described as a lose-lose situation. What-

   8. DKDara Khosrowshahi19:03

      I obviously wasn't reading that press.

   9. LFLepi Jha Fishman19:04

      [laughs]

   10. DKDara Khosrowshahi19:05

       But okay.

   11. SPSpeaker19:05

       [laughs]

   12. LFLepi Jha Fishman19:06

       Um, ultimately, what, what, what is winning to you? How did you think about that?

   13. DKDara Khosrowshahi19:12

       Um, honestly, I wasn't thinking about winning. Uh, I'll, I'll, I'll relate one story, which, which was a funny story. When, when I was first reached out for the, for the job, I... by, by some headhunters, I, I said, "No way." I, I was happy where I was. And, um, and then I, I was having a, a drink with a friend of mine, actually the, uh, Daniel Ek, the, the CEO of Spotify, at a conference. And he asked me, he said, "Have they reached out to you? Because I told them I think you'd be perfect for this role." I say, "Yeah, but you know, I'm, I'm happy. I'm, I'm, I'm doing great at Expedia. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm not gonna... Why would I ever do that?" And he looks at me and he says, "Dara, since when is life about happiness?"

   14. SPSpeaker19:57

       [laughs]

   15. DKDara Khosrowshahi19:59

       [laughs] And he stared at me with his Scandinavian eyes, and-

   16. SPSpeaker20:03

       [laughs]

   17. DKDara Khosrowshahi20:03

       ... he, and, a- and he said, "It's about doing something great." Uh, and my wife was there. Cyd was there as well. And, and she's like, "Come on, man, let's... You should go for this." So between those two, that was kind of the moment that, that changed for me. And, a- listen, there, there are, there are very few times in your life when, uh, you can change the world, uh, or you can change something that's truly important. And for me, the advice that I always give folks that I talk to as far as careers is, I think that people often optimize way too much for the role or the company, et cetera. The first thing that I always optimize for is, who are you gonna work with? Uh, and the people that I met on that board, even though there were questions about the board, they were excellent, uh, the, the folks that I talked to o- on the board. And the second is... And the second and third are, can you go to a place where you personally can make a difference, and can you go to a place that's making a difference? Uh, you know, I was in investment banking where I was making a difference, but I didn't feel like the impact on the world was quite there. Uh, and this Uber opportunity for me was, this is an extraordinary opportunity to make an impact at a company that's making an impact to the world. And my attitude was, it's not about winning or losing, it's actually about taking a shot. Uh, and you know, if, if I took a shot and I won, then glory come upon me or, or whatever it is. But even if I took a shot and I failed, and I don't plan to fail, I took that fricking shot. And you know, when I'm 30 years from now, 40 years from now, I'm gonna have a great, great story to tell my kids and their kids. Um, that to me is the definition of winning. Like, like, winning is getting in the game, is, is playing the game. Um, and for me, a big part of winning is winning as a team. Like, I don't wanna win alone. It's so much more fun to celebrate with teammates. It's so much more fun to celebrate as a, as a tribe, as a family. Um, so me is... You know, for me, winning is I'm playing in a game and it's a really important game, and I've got a team around me, and if we win, it's gonna be a great story.

   18. LFLepi Jha Fishman22:17

       One of the central tenets you mentioned was going to a place where you can have impact.

   19. DKDara Khosrowshahi22:21

       Yeah.

   20. LFLepi Jha Fishman22:22

       To be sure, there was a lot to do at Uber-

   21. DKDara Khosrowshahi22:24

       Mm-hmm

10. 22:24 – 27:29

    Changing Uber’s culture: from aggressive early success to a more diverse, resilient organization

    1. LFLepi Jha Fishman22:24

       ... when you came on, and in particular, Uber has gone through hell because of accusations around Me Too, unprofessional management, safety issues.

    2. DKDara Khosrowshahi22:33

       Yeah.

    3. LFLepi Jha Fishman22:34

       The cul-

    4. DKDara Khosrowshahi22:34

       Deserve it and some.

    5. LFLepi Jha Fishman22:36

       The culture was thought to over-index on this culture of begging forgiveness versus asking permission. How did you address that specifically, and what's left to do?

    6. DKDara Khosrowshahi22:47

       So I think first of all, the, um... I don't know if the company... Well, I kinda know that, that the company wouldn't have succeeded and been in that position in the first place without that culture. So I know that it's very easy to criticize it after the fact, et cetera, but the fact is that there are very few companies that have created the kind of brand or the kind of service that that team created. You know, the world, it was historic. It is historic. It will be historic. But the one thing that I've learned is that success imprints much more forcefully than failure. Uh, and what the pattern that you see with companies is that anytime you have a success, of course it's because of you and everything that you do and your culture, et cetera. And if there's a failure, oh, it was, uh, it's the market or the market wasn't right, timing wasn't right. It's always someone else. So success sometimes, and the kind of success that Uber had, was so extraordinary that actually in hindsight it kind of made sense that the success was born out of, you know, aggression and going forward and not taking no for an answer and, and, and running through doors. Uh, and it worked, and it worked spectacularly. It... But, but that hid some negatives and some very significant negatives that were forming as a result of that culture. Uh, and, and I think that, you know, I haven't experienced the kind of success that Uber experienced early on. I don't know if I would've seen it 'cause, 'cause they're too, too busy winning, and they're too busy being on the photo spread of a magazine talking about how they're changing the world and how they can do no wrong. So, y- you know, I, I, I want to be careful about how we think about this situation. Where we wound up was that once the winning stopped, you know, the fall was really, really tough, and it happened suddenly. And I think the company hadn't built the, the bulwark and the framework to be able to resist that kind of... the wall that they hit. Um, and they needed a change. And, and, you know, I'm here, and I can be a, a part of that change. Um, that said, what we wound up with was a culture that was, I think, um, uh, not diverse enough. There was one way, and there was the only, the, the way that was defined kind of as, as a Uber way. The company had not taken the time to think about diversity of thought, um, diversity of origin, gender diversity, um, uh, um, thinking about, uh, underrepresented minorities and their position at, at the company. Um, I think that the company was a little bit too top-down, you know, and, and it's part of the power of a founder-led company, but it can also be part of a weakness of a founder-led company. Um, and I think these are all actions that we're taking. You know, this is a company, we are truly a global company. The connection that we have with the cities that we operate in, we're not just a digital company. The connection that we have with the cities that we operate w- in are physical and are fundamental. When our payment system goes down, we have drivers who don't get paid, and some of them need to get paid in order to afford dinner that night. Uh, so the connection that we have with the cities, with our driver partners, with our riders, are so fundamental and so important that it's incredibly important as we develop as a company to be as diverse as the business, the riders, and the drivers that we're serving, to be diverse in our views, in our international viewpoints, et cetera. And we are working very hard in bringing a leadership team that values that diversity, and then pushing down the culture of truly celebrating differences, um, truly being at one and in service of the cities in which we operate, but it's a journey. It's only been a year, and it's a start, but it's something that I and, I think, our leadership team are incredibly passionate about. And the opportunity for us is, you know, th- I think there's this dislocation between technology companies and the rest of the world, and it's coming out in a lot of ways. We're not the only tech company. We're, to some extent, the tip of the sphere, uh, the spear here. But I think as a technology company, we touch people in a way that other tech companies don't. It's fundamental. I think we're in touch in the cities in which we operate. So I think we can, we as Uber, have the opportunity to be that next-generation technology leader, both in terms of culture, but actually how we connect to the cities, uh, and, and the constituencies that, that we, that we work with and operate around. So it's a big job, but I'm psyched for it.

11. 27:29 – 29:08

    Concrete operational shifts: treating drivers as true partners

    1. LFLepi Jha Fishman27:29

       What is, what's one specific example of a seed that you're sowing right now that, that could actually ultimately look like what you're describing as an ideal stem end state?

    2. DKDara Khosrowshahi27:37

       Well, I think, you, you know, we're, we're thinking about our driver partners. We've always called our driver partners partners, but I don't think we've, um, treated them as such in the past. Uh, so now when we are launching our product, the, the driver app, we actually go to our driver partners. We do the research with them. We, uh, for the first time really, we got driver partner beta testers, and go out there, and we actually build not what we think they should have, but actually what they're telling us they should have as well. Um, so that's... it's, it's just a very different way of building product than, that we've had in the past. Um, one of the areas where we're thinking about for our driver partners i- are insurance, right? It's what if they get into accident, paternity, maternity leave, et cetera. Uh, and we have partnered with A- with AXA, uh, in Europe to actually provide these kinds of insurance coverages for our driver partners, and it's something that's been incredibly well-received. So that, you know, that might not have been a direction that, uh, old Uber would have gone through, but I think that a more mature Uber, uh, an Uber that understands that our driver partners in many ways are the face of the company, that's an area that we invest in, and I think more and more we're looking to treat them as the true partners that they are.

    3. LFLepi Jha Fishman28:58

       Look at the external side of the house. There's a lot that you've been doing internally, and you mentioned that another one of your tenets is going to a place that actually can have an impact.

    4. DKDara Khosrowshahi29:07

       Mm-hmm.

12. 29:08 – 31:36

    Competition and the “silver bullet” question: shifting to customer obsession and multi-product focus

    1. LFLepi Jha Fishman29:08

       And indeed, Uber has shown and demonstrated that potential. A former high-ranking Google executive recently said to The New Yorker that, quote, "Everyone is terrified of Uber." Your com-

    2. DKDara Khosrowshahi29:21

       Who is that person? [laughs]

    3. LFLepi Jha Fishman29:22

       Anonymous in The New Yorker. So, um, your competition is gunning for you.

    4. DKDara Khosrowshahi29:27

       Yes, of course.

    5. LFLepi Jha Fishman29:28

       And, uh, one of our beloved lecturers here, Rob Siegel, often asks and popularized the following question to visiting executives: You have one silver bullet to take out a competitor, who is it?

    6. DKDara Khosrowshahi29:40

       Wow.

    7. SPSpeaker29:41

       [laughs]

    8. DKDara Khosrowshahi29:42

       That is a tough one. A silver bullet to take out a competitor. Um, you know, might be a pink competitor, I'm not sure. Uh...

    9. SPSpeaker29:54

       [laughs]

    10. DKDara Khosrowshahi29:57

        [laughs] You know, I, I honestly think that right now, um, th- I actually do very much believe that companies that are too competitor-focused, uh, sometimes and many times stop caring about what's important, which is the customer. Uh, so i- if there's a silver bullet for us, it's actually, um, really starting... And, and I think Uber, we have been, to some extent, historically too guilty of, of competitors and what they're doing and share, et cetera. Um, we are now really, our operations teams and our product teams and our technology teams are working together in a way that is customer-obsessed. Uh, and the, our customers are the riders and the drivers, and, and that is, you know... If there's a silver bullet, I don't wanna shoot it at the competitor. I actually want us to accelerate this kind of new customer obsession as a company, uh, because ultimately whether we win or lose, it ain't gonna be about what the competitors do. It's, it's, it's about what we do. You know, we have, we have a global scope. None of our competitors have a global scope. We are multi-product. We've got a rides business that is enormous and growing very quickly. We have an incredible new business growing, uh, with Eats. We are getting to scooters and bikes. We're getting into VTOLs, vertical takeoff and landing, uh, product. We're getting into freight, et cetera. The definition of success, we, we're taking on so many competitors that I need a silver shooting machine gun to take out my competitors, right?

    11. LFLepi Jha Fishman31:30

        [laughs]

    12. DKDara Khosrowshahi31:30

        So it's really, we've gotta be focused internally in order to win. That's, that's the real focus for us.

13. 31:36 – 33:51

    IPO mindset and investor expectations: truthfulness, big markets, and time horizons

    1. LFLepi Jha Fishman31:36

       Lots of product lines, and on top of that, you're planning on going public next year.

    2. DKDara Khosrowshahi31:40

       Yes.

    3. LFLepi Jha Fishman31:41

       How do you... We talked about this a little bit, and specifically in the context of Uber, how do you trade off investing in growth, R&D, new products, uh, with demonstrating predictable profitability to shareholders?

    4. DKDara Khosrowshahi31:53

       Um, we're not gonna have predictable profitability. And we'll say to our shareholders, and the shareholders can choose. If they want a predictably profitable company, go buy a bank. Don't come to us. Simple.

    5. LFLepi Jha Fishman32:08

       I noticed when you were describing your [laughs] ...

    6. DKDara Khosrowshahi32:10

       No, but it's just-

    7. LFLepi Jha Fishman32:11

       [laughs]

    8. DKDara Khosrowshahi32:11

       I'd rather be truthful.

    9. LFLepi Jha Fishman32:15

       I can't wait for your shareholder letter.

    10. DKDara Khosrowshahi32:17

        [laughs]

    11. LFLepi Jha Fishman32:18

        [laughs]

    12. DKDara Khosrowshahi32:20

        Hey, I did have... When I was, when I was at Expedia, I, I had a, I still remember, investor meeting, um, with, with an investor and, uh, he talked for, like, five minutes about being a long-term investor. "We're a long-term investor. We're gonna be an owner with you," et cetera. I'm like, "So what's your average holding period?" And he looked at me in, like, with those deep eyes and he said, "Nine months."

    13. LFLepi Jha Fishman32:43

        [laughs]

    14. DKDara Khosrowshahi32:45

        I was like, "Oh my God." So it, it's just you, you've got to, um... There are true long-term investors, uh, but just like you can't be too competitor focused, just focus on the product. State who you are. Uh, and, and that comes with limits, and I think you will get investors that you deserve. And the markets that we're going after are so big, and the position that we have is unique, and by the way, we have lots of tough, tough competition, that we will find investors who hopefully agree with us that, that, that, that really the long term is what we're after. And, and kind of what, what I like to talk to, to my team about is we, uh, I, I'm actually, um, short term impatient. You know, I want the small ideas that take a week, and I'm long term patient. I'll take the big ideas that take five years. I don't like the in between. Uh, and so if there's a small idea, get it to me. Get it, get it launched in a month. Get it launched in two weeks. I'll take that. I'll take the big long-term bets. Don't come to me with in between.

14. 33:51 – 36:46

    Autonomy and the broader mobility platform vision: integrating partners and even public transit

    1. LFLepi Jha Fishman33:51

       One thing when you were describing kind of the product suite that you're most focused about that I noticed is that you did not mention autonomous vehicles.

    2. DKDara Khosrowshahi33:59

       That's part of the rideshare business. I think, I think that with autonomous what's different about us-

    3. LFLepi Jha Fishman34:04

       Yeah

    4. DKDara Khosrowshahi34:05

       ... uh, as it relates to, um, other companies out there is autonomous is not a means to an end. Now, autonomous technology's gonna be incredibly exciting in terms of safety and ultimately cost and providing this service, this transportation and mobility service to everyone everywhere, especially if you don't live in the middle of the city. Um, but I don't believe that autonomous could be commercialized at the giant scale that it has a potential to do so without ridesharing, and I believe that any rideshare service that doesn't have autonomous 15 to 20 years from now will exist. So to us, autonomous, uh, and rideshare ultimately are going to be one and the same, and the advantage that we have, the magic, is that we are able to have them under one roof, and when we develop autonomous we can develop it for a very small use case, uh, which is for, let's say, 1%. By the way, that one, that very small use case is gonna be incredibly difficult, but 1% of routes, then 2% of routes, then 3% of routes. The challenges that we have to take on in commercialization are much, much, uh, more simple than the challenges that any autonomous-only player. So for us, autonomous and rideshare, they're ultimately gonna be one and the same for us.

    5. LFLepi Jha Fishman35:22

       Do you think on the supply side eventually Uber might serve as a platform for players right now who are saying they're autonomous only, like Waymo or-

    6. DKDara Khosrowshahi35:29

       Oh, very much so. Yeah, we, we will, uh, we'll welcome all comers. A- and you'll see that now. For example, we have a, uh, integration with Lime, uh, who is... They have bikes and scooters out there. We already, I think they are live in Oakland. Uh, so ultimately the vision that we see of Uber is we want to be that A to B mobility and transportation platform for people, food, and things. Uh, and no one company can provide all of the different versions of transportation and mobility. We will look to integrate in all other, many, many other third parties, just like Amazon has their own product and third-party merchant product. Um, and we want part of that mobility to be hopefully provided by cities, the bus service, uh, metro service, et cetera. We wanna have all of that available in Uber so that if you say, "I wanna get to the city now," uh, what is the best way to, for you to get to the city? And if the best way for you to is to take Caltrain, you know, we will tell you exactly when it's coming. We'll make payment perfect, uh, and, and, and we will make it predictable as far as you're having real-time data, and hopefully, you know, at some point we'll introduce, um, surge pricing and all the other cool stuff that we do.

    7. LFLepi Jha Fishman36:45

       A lot to do.

    8. DKDara Khosrowshahi36:46

       Yeah.

15. 36:46 – 38:28

    Personal resilience under pressure: family perspective, leaks, and keeping grounded

    1. LFLepi Jha Fishman36:46

       And I want to turn to you now. Uh, you, uh, my understanding is that you've been commuting to the Bay Area from Seattle a lot.

    2. DKDara Khosrowshahi36:53

       I've, the, the commute has officially stopped.

    3. LFLepi Jha Fishman36:55

       Oh, congratulations.

    4. DKDara Khosrowshahi36:56

       Yes, I have moved. Thank you very much.

    5. LFLepi Jha Fishman36:58

       That's fabulous news.

    6. DKDara Khosrowshahi36:59

       Phew, yes.

    7. LFLepi Jha Fishman37:01

       [laughs] Internally at Uber, you are righting the ship while simultaneously preparing for this IPO. You're also managing the pressure of internal leaks. An all-hands meeting was recently leaked just a day or two ago.

    8. DKDara Khosrowshahi37:12

       Yes, they'd stop- they, they, the leaks had stopped until yesterday, so.

    9. LFLepi Jha Fishman37:16

       Sorry. But you are working to repair trust within Uber.

    10. DKDara Khosrowshahi37:19

        Mm-hmm.

    11. LFLepi Jha Fishman37:20

        You know, how... That's a lot of tension.

    12. DKDara Khosrowshahi37:23

        Yeah.

    13. LFLepi Jha Fishman37:24

        How do you maintain your sanity? Who's your support system?

    14. DKDara Khosrowshahi37:27

        [laughs] Um, oh, I'd say my wife. You know, she's, uh... I, I, I'd say that there, there, there are two elements. One is, um, when you come from a family who's lost everything and then rebuilt it, um, it puts a perspective which is, uh, I just kind of don't have a fear of loss anymore 'cause I know I'm gonna be okay. Uh, so the leak, did it suck? Yeah. But are things getting better? Much better. Uh, and then when I get home and, you know, I have dinner with my wife and my kids, it's all good. And the next day I'll do my best. Um, and, and you know, what I know I always have with me is my family. Um, and what I know I will be true to is, is really giving everything I have to this opportunity, 'cause it is a opportunity of a lifetime, and I'm incredibly lucky to be in the spot.

16. 38:28 – 41:12

    Global CEO as quasi-politician, then a lightning round to close

    1. LFLepi Jha Fishman38:28

       It's, it's interesting because before you came to Uber, at Expedia-

    2. DKDara Khosrowshahi38:33

       Mm-hmm

    3. LFLepi Jha Fishman38:33

       ... you tried to travel to India, your visa got denied.

    4. DKDara Khosrowshahi38:36

       Yeah.

    5. LFLepi Jha Fishman38:36

       [laughs] But-

    6. DKDara Khosrowshahi38:38

       Apparently I wasn't a big deal enough. Uber, I got like a visa like that. It was amazing.

    7. LFLepi Jha Fishman38:43

       And not only that-

    8. DKDara Khosrowshahi38:43

       [laughs]

    9. LFLepi Jha Fishman38:43

       ... but you were meeting with Prime Minister Modi.

    10. DKDara Khosrowshahi38:45

        Yes.

    11. LFLepi Jha Fishman38:46

        And, you know, equally as CEO, you are making deals on an international scale, uh, liaising with governments like the UK. Uh, in a world far after Uber, might we, we one day see Secretary of State Dara Khosrowshahi?

    12. DKDara Khosrowshahi39:02

        [laughs] Oh, I would be very fearful for the country in that, uh, case.

    13. SPSpeaker39:08

        [laughs]

    14. DKDara Khosrowshahi39:08

        Um, I, uh, y- you know, I have joked that, that my, my job is half CEO, half politician in this new world. But, um, I, I, I, uh, I'm busy with all the politics right here. I don't think I want to get into more politics than that.

    15. LFLepi Jha Fishman39:26

        One last question before we let you go.

    16. DKDara Khosrowshahi39:28

        Sure.

    17. LFLepi Jha Fishman39:28

        All right. Um, we're gonna do a quick lightning round.

    18. DKDara Khosrowshahi39:31

        Oh, okay.

    19. LFLepi Jha Fishman39:31

        [laughs]

    20. SPSpeaker39:32

        [laughs]

    21. LFLepi Jha Fishman39:33

        I'm gonna give you a prompt. You can respond with a word, up to a sentence.

    22. DKDara Khosrowshahi39:37

        Sounds good.

    23. LFLepi Jha Fishman39:38

        All right. Um, Fortnite or World of Warcraft?

    24. DKDara Khosrowshahi39:41

        Oh, World of Warcraft, definitely.

    25. LFLepi Jha Fishman39:43

        [laughs]

    26. DKDara Khosrowshahi39:44

        Um, I actually tried to have a date with my wife, Cyd, in World of Warcraft, and I was this gnome in, you can put in these commands to dance for her. She was a, she was a elf, you know-

    27. LFLepi Jha Fishman39:54

        [laughs]

    28. DKDara Khosrowshahi39:54

        ... which compared to her, you know, I am a gnome. Um, she didn't think it was that cool, but still.

    29. LFLepi Jha Fishman39:59

        [laughs]

    30. SPSpeaker40:00

        [laughs]

Episode duration: 41:12